Another great video giving clear visual instruction on using these machines. Whilst RTFM is always a good first move, seeing these controls demonstrated by an expert, in real time, is far better for many people. Already looking forward to the next ones, thanks for creating these tutorials, they are really excellently made, and very useful.
Beautiful video, well done! Auto mode on my 2225 works slightly different. While NORM works exactly the same like in your 465B, AUTO expands the range of the trigger control in a way that it spans peak to peak along its full range so AUTO will always produce a stable signal, regardless of trigger control setting.
Hi Alan, you continue to provide your viewers with clarity, knowledge and inspiration. While I enjoy a digital scope (a Hameg HMO2024 which greatly exceeds my electrical acumen!), I want to pick up an analogue scope to help learn about scope usage and electronics. Your videos offer the 'how to' and 'what that knob does' instruction to help me make a sensible decision. 73, Matt M0NJX
Thank you very much for making this videos! I have thet oscilloscope and was just resting there being unused. Now that I'm about to get a HAM radio license and getting interested in electronics I took it out again and thanks to you I know how to use it! So thank you very much again and keep up the good work =D
In short, all AUTO does is force a trigger event, if there hasn't been one. No trigger event, no trace on the display. This is useful for adjusting the scope before you've set up a good trigger, or if you don't even have a trigger event, such as using the scope to probe various signals, INCLUDING DC or slowly changing DC levels. For a slow trigger rate, remember to put trigger in to Normal so you ONLY trigger on the desired event. Auto will insert triggers, otherwise. It's common to forget.
Thanks Allen for teaching new functions of the scope. Thanks VI3MIJ for teaching what to use NORMAL for. Took me time to understand "all AUTO does is force a trigger *event*". In other words - "Instead of going with the trig. level knob -/+ manualy it will do it internally by itself till it finds the signal. All what would be left to do is to choose the right sweep frequency. About the use of NORMAL mode I would say "Trigger level that is set to a certain level and it waits for a signal that contains that level causes the screen getting alive". LIKE SPIDER WAITING FOR THE FLY IN THE NET - When FLY IN THE RANGE SPIDER ALIVE .WHEN NO FLY SPIDER SLEEPS.
Is there any reason to use normal triggering rather than just leave the scope in Auto permenantly? Doesn't seem to be much point of having a normal triggering mode.
i got a real old 10 Mhz analogue jobby and the auto trigger just triggers off the mains frequency (50Hz where i live) and it works slightly different, you have to push the knob in and adjust if you want it to trigger off the signal (telequipment D61) the scope can trigger off composite video signals as well
On my Tek 2235, it is impossible to get a free-running display when in auto trigger mode if a symmetrical waveform is coming in to the scope. The 2235 automatically limits the triggering level span within the lower and upper peaks of the waveform when in auto triggering mode, but not when in norm mode. Kind of interesting that the auto triggering works slightly different on different analog Teks.
I have a question..on my, just purchased Tek 2431L, or any scope after you set the cursor's to measure volts, or time...is there a way they follow a change of either one...or do you have to move the cursor each time for the measurement. Thanks...very nice video as always...
With some scopes, you can set the Cursor into "track" mode, where one control will adjust the delta between the cursors, and the other control will move both back-forth or up-down.
Just an observation, that probably has no effect with what you are talking about (or does it?), the analog scope is set to AC and your DSO is set to DC. Ken
AUTO triggering circuit is connected to Oscope chan#1 because when you measure a waveform/signal on a circuit under test the Oscope will sync/trigger from the Oscopes Chan#1 Probe. What I'm confused about is how is the trigger circuit "detecting" and syncing up to the oscilloscope H&V circuits to display a stable waveform because the Oscope Probe is not only measuring the Voltage but also the Oscope Probe is detecting and syncing to the measured waveforms/signals frequency so that the Oscope Triggerin circuit will get synced up? #2 question, its common that when waveforms are referenced to a clock frequency signal that you have to put the Oscope to External trigger and connect the clock signal to the External trigger port on the Oscope or you will not get a stable waveform. The Question#2 is asking when looking at a stable waveform on the Oscope how would a Electronic technician know that the waveform is referenced to a clock signal or is triggering off of 60hz line frequency? because if you disconnect the clock signal to the external port on the Oscope the waveform will display a free running waveform or scrabble garbage. But when viewing a stable waveform there is no way of knowing if the waveform is being referenced to a clock signal or 60hz line frequency?
Re-watch the video. The AUTO trigger isn't connected to any particular channel. It initiates an internal trigger if the regular trigger condition isn't met. The only thing that the trigger circuit "syncs up" is the horizontal sweep. On an analog scope, the trigger most often is looking for when the input signal crosses the "trigger level" - like a comparator. The vast majority of the time, you setup the scope to trigger on the same signal/channel that you are looking at.
@@w2aew Oscope SOURCE switch to Chan#1. The SOURCE switch is connect chan#1 to the Oscope trigger circuit. When you place the Chan#1 probe to measure a waveform/signal even when you set the trigger level it won't sync up to the Oscope and display a stable waveform because the waveform on the PCB board is referenced to a clock signal. When you measure the waveforms time period, the time period measurement does NOT equal or match to the clock signals frequency, any reasons why?
@@w2aew When a technician is measuring different waveforms signals on a circuit under test and can't get a stable display by adjusting the trigger level, it just won't sync up or trigger. The only way to get a stable display is to use the external trigger port and connect it where at? besides the clock signal frequency. When you connect the clock signal to the external trigger port the measured waveform signal on Chal#1 is COMBINED with the referenced clock signal on the Oscilloscope EXT trigger port? I just want to make sure its considered "combined" when you apply trigger signals to the Oscope trigger port because it must combine with oscope CH#1 measured waveform
@@waynegram8907 Without specific pictorial examples, your question is not possible to answer. There are a lot of reasons why it might be difficult to get a stable triggered display.
Very new to scope but this was interesting, What would you recommend for a newbie am mainly repairing amplifiers (analogue) and also thinking about buying signal generator (whats max mhz I would need)? Am looking for something easy and reliable.
+jon123423 If you're talking about audio amplifiers, then a simple used analog scope would suit you just fine. No need for the expense and features of a digital scope unless you choose to go that route. Most of the time, you'll be using the scope to check power supply ripple or tracing a signal through an amplifier to look for problems. As for a signal generator - you just have to be sure it puts out the maximum frequency that you'll ever be testing with. It is helpful if the generator has a nice wide adjustable output amplitude range.
+w2aew Thank you for very quick reply you seemed very clued up and very intelligent. Yes I am repairing audio amplifiers would this be any good (signal generator)? www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181818042260?_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT or www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121633684383?_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT For scope: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191700656159?_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT or www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ARM-NANO-DSO201-Oscilloscope-Mini-Storage-Digital-Pocket-Sized-Portable-Kit-UK-/270972259947?hash=item3f17348e6b or www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301756261835?euid=c44a36e58e204858862b1d65666ebb2c&cp=1
+jon123423 I'm old-school when it comes to scopes for these applications, so I like the used analog scope. But it all depends on your space and taste. The signal generators would likely be OK for your application, but I also like the old analog function generators.
I have a problem with my audio (home) amplifier - requires more than a DMM. Am I on the the right path here: 1. Basically you use a separate signal generator to diagnose the fault? 2. Then signal generator is connected to aux input (or available but not phono) of amplifier and set bandwidth to let say 1khz on sine. Finally connect scopes ground cable to chassis of amp and used probe to trace fault?
+jon123423 Yes. Not that you can work from either direction. Inject a signal at the input like the AUX, and trace it until the problem is discovered. Or, monitor the output with the scope, and inject signal into the output stage, and work your way backwards until you hit the problem area.
Would you measure your current across a resistor using your pk to pk voltage or your rms/avg V? I was in lab today at school and I have forgotten how to use an oscilloscope since last semester... :[
Today I picked up a 466 for a very reasonable price. Unfortunately, it did not come with an original Tek probe. It needs cleaning, obviously. The first issue are the four feet to put it in the upright position. The plastic material of those feet has become brittle, the feet broke on first contact with the floor, so I removed them. I have seen a guy on youtube make those feet with 3D printing, maybe somebody would sell me a set. The slots in those feet are not for decoration purposes, they hold the power cord snugly when it is wound around those feet. Tomorrow I will test my 466. I hope there will be not to much unpleasant surprises.
Yeah, the cord-winder tabs on the feet of my 465B have mostly broken off too, and the feet are beginning to break apart. I should probably look for replacements as well. Good luck with your 466!
I cleaned the 466. There were some issues. Two of the rods that couple the knobs to the pots were disconnected. The cardan joints with set screws that connect those rods were broken. These joint are very unobtainable. I managed to, more of less, repair those joints with a drop of super glue. At least, now I can move those pots again. Apparently, all the switches are very noisy, which is not a surprise . What did surprise me, however, is the tiny texts on top of the push buttons; they wiped off just by touching with a damp paper towel. I did not even use soap or alcohol, just plain water. The ink (or decals) on top of those buttons must have been dissolved by sticky, sweaty fingers over the years. I will print and cut tiny stickers on transparant foil to correct that issue. Also, there seems to be an issue with the 'storage' features of this scope. The illumination of the screen behaves rather weird whenever I switch those 'storage' push buttons ( 'save' - 'non-store' - 'var pers' - 'fast'). The screen lights up very bright shortly, then resettles to a more or less normal intensity, whenever I switch those buttons. I have no clue if this is normal behaviour, I have to figure that out.
+David Circuity On an analog scope such as this - trigger is used to "start" the sweep of the scope at a particular location of the input waveform, thus synchronizing the sweep/display with the waveform being observed (making it stable on the screen). On a digital scope, triggering is used to help capture a particular event of interest into sample memory (as well as stabilizing the waveform display).
I assume that you really mean Single triggering (not signal triggering). Single Triggering in an analog scope like this is really *only* useful when you have a scope camera - because in this mode, only one sweep is generated. A camera would typically be used to capture the single event. In modern digital scopes, the *single* trigger mode is much more useful.
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Great video regarding triggering on analog and digital scopes. Gotta love the 465B!
Great video Alan. Thank you for giving your time so freely to those of us who want to learn and master using an oscilloscope.
Another great video giving clear visual instruction on using these machines. Whilst RTFM is always a good first move, seeing these controls demonstrated by an expert, in real time, is far better for many people. Already looking forward to the next ones, thanks for creating these tutorials, they are really excellently made, and very useful.
I like that you do a lot of demonstrating on old Tektronix Oscilloscopes. I'm a proud owner of a Tektronix 475 and I'm loving these videos
Beautiful video, well done!
Auto mode on my 2225 works slightly different. While NORM works exactly the same like in your 465B, AUTO expands the range of the trigger control in a way that it spans peak to peak along its full range so AUTO will always produce a stable signal, regardless of trigger control setting.
Hi Alan, you continue to provide your viewers with clarity, knowledge and inspiration. While I enjoy a digital scope (a Hameg HMO2024 which greatly exceeds my electrical acumen!), I want to pick up an analogue scope to help learn about scope usage and electronics. Your videos offer the 'how to' and 'what that knob does' instruction to help me make a sensible decision. 73, Matt M0NJX
I hope you do, you more than deserve it. I refer to and link to this tutorial in a video I'm posting.
Thanks again.
Enlightened after this video ! Thank you !
Thank you very much for making this videos! I have thet oscilloscope and was just resting there being unused. Now that I'm about to get a HAM radio license and getting interested in electronics I took it out again and thanks to you I know how to use it! So thank you very much again and keep up the good work =D
A trip down memory lane for me. I used to work for Tektronix servicing and repairing them.
In short, all AUTO does is force a trigger event, if there hasn't been one. No trigger event, no trace on the display.
This is useful for adjusting the scope before you've set up a good trigger, or if you don't even have a trigger event, such as using the scope to probe various signals, INCLUDING DC or slowly changing DC levels.
For a slow trigger rate, remember to put trigger in to Normal so you ONLY trigger on the desired event. Auto will insert triggers, otherwise. It's common to forget.
Hi Alan, nice video as allways !
Thanks Allen for teaching new functions of the scope.
Thanks VI3MIJ for teaching what to use NORMAL for. Took me time to understand "all AUTO does is force a trigger *event*".
In other words - "Instead of going with the trig. level knob -/+ manualy it will do it internally by itself till it finds the signal. All what would be left to do is to choose the right sweep frequency.
About the use of NORMAL mode I would say "Trigger level that is set to a certain level and it waits for a signal that contains that level causes the screen getting alive". LIKE SPIDER WAITING FOR THE FLY IN THE NET - When FLY IN THE RANGE SPIDER ALIVE .WHEN NO FLY SPIDER SLEEPS.
Your spider analog describes the NORMAL trigger mode. For AUTO, the spider wakes up on its own periodically if he is not awakened by a fly.
Thank you for this video! Very helpful.
Thank You! Very nice tutorials, clear explanations ... very helpful!
Is there any reason to use normal triggering rather than just leave the scope in Auto permenantly? Doesn't seem to be much point of having a normal triggering mode.
i got a real old 10 Mhz analogue jobby and the auto trigger just triggers off the mains frequency (50Hz where i live) and it works slightly different, you have to push the knob in and adjust if you want it to trigger off the signal (telequipment D61)
the scope can trigger off composite video signals as well
Thanks, a great help. Thumbs up and shared.
Great info, thanks for posting!
great video, thanks Alan, do you have one for the math function, so you can read the voltage instead of reading off the bar graph
On my Tek 2235, it is impossible to get a free-running display when in auto trigger mode if a symmetrical waveform is coming in to the scope. The 2235 automatically limits the triggering level span within the lower and upper peaks of the waveform when in auto triggering mode, but not when in norm mode. Kind of interesting that the auto triggering works slightly different on different analog Teks.
I have a question..on my, just purchased Tek 2431L, or any scope after you set the cursor's to measure volts, or time...is there a way they follow a change of either one...or do you have to move the cursor each time for the measurement. Thanks...very nice video as always...
With some scopes, you can set the Cursor into "track" mode, where one control will adjust the delta between the cursors, and the other control will move both back-forth or up-down.
Get a room you guys! Just joking. :) Both of you have wonderful channels that are very helpful! Keep up the good work!
Thank you very much.
Could you please explain what the triggering signal actually is? How does it work exactly? Thank you
Could you please show how to use single sweep in trigger mode? I have a scope made in Taiwan but without this function.
Thanks.
Outstanding!
Just an observation, that probably has no effect with what you are talking about (or does it?), the analog scope is set to AC and your DSO is set to DC.
Ken
have you wrenten any books on the 465 tektronix controls ?
AUTO triggering circuit is connected to Oscope chan#1 because when you measure a waveform/signal on a circuit under test the Oscope will sync/trigger from the Oscopes Chan#1 Probe. What I'm confused about is how is the trigger circuit "detecting" and syncing up to the oscilloscope H&V circuits to display a stable waveform because the Oscope Probe is not only measuring the Voltage but also the Oscope Probe is detecting and syncing to the measured waveforms/signals frequency so that the Oscope Triggerin circuit will get synced up? #2 question, its common that when waveforms are referenced to a clock frequency signal that you have to put the Oscope to External trigger and connect the clock signal to the External trigger port on the Oscope or you will not get a stable waveform. The Question#2 is asking when looking at a stable waveform on the Oscope how would a Electronic technician know that the waveform is referenced to a clock signal or is triggering off of 60hz line frequency? because if you disconnect the clock signal to the external port on the Oscope the waveform will display a free running waveform or scrabble garbage. But when viewing a stable waveform there is no way of knowing if the waveform is being referenced to a clock signal or 60hz line frequency?
Re-watch the video. The AUTO trigger isn't connected to any particular channel. It initiates an internal trigger if the regular trigger condition isn't met.
The only thing that the trigger circuit "syncs up" is the horizontal sweep. On an analog scope, the trigger most often is looking for when the input signal crosses the "trigger level" - like a comparator.
The vast majority of the time, you setup the scope to trigger on the same signal/channel that you are looking at.
@@w2aew Oscope SOURCE switch to Chan#1. The SOURCE switch is connect chan#1 to the Oscope trigger circuit. When you place the Chan#1 probe to measure a waveform/signal even when you set the trigger level it won't sync up to the Oscope and display a stable waveform because the waveform on the PCB board is referenced to a clock signal. When you measure the waveforms time period, the time period measurement does NOT equal or match to the clock signals frequency, any reasons why?
@@w2aew When a technician is measuring different waveforms signals on a circuit under test and can't get a stable display by adjusting the trigger level, it just won't sync up or trigger. The only way to get a stable display is to use the external trigger port and connect it where at? besides the clock signal frequency. When you connect the clock signal to the external trigger port the measured waveform signal on Chal#1 is COMBINED with the referenced clock signal on the Oscilloscope EXT trigger port? I just want to make sure its considered "combined" when you apply trigger signals to the Oscope trigger port because it must combine with oscope CH#1 measured waveform
@@waynegram8907 Without specific pictorial examples, your question is not possible to answer. There are a lot of reasons why it might be difficult to get a stable triggered display.
Thank you!
Very new to scope but this was interesting, What would you recommend for a newbie am mainly repairing amplifiers (analogue) and also thinking about buying signal generator (whats max mhz I would need)? Am looking for something easy and reliable.
+jon123423 If you're talking about audio amplifiers, then a simple used analog scope would suit you just fine. No need for the expense and features of a digital scope unless you choose to go that route. Most of the time, you'll be using the scope to check power supply ripple or tracing a signal through an amplifier to look for problems. As for a signal generator - you just have to be sure it puts out the maximum frequency that you'll ever be testing with. It is helpful if the generator has a nice wide adjustable output amplitude range.
+w2aew
Thank you for very quick reply you seemed very clued up and very intelligent.
Yes I am repairing audio amplifiers
would this be any good (signal generator)?
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181818042260?_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
or
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121633684383?_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
For scope:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191700656159?_trksid=p2060353.m2763.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
or
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ARM-NANO-DSO201-Oscilloscope-Mini-Storage-Digital-Pocket-Sized-Portable-Kit-UK-/270972259947?hash=item3f17348e6b
or
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301756261835?euid=c44a36e58e204858862b1d65666ebb2c&cp=1
+jon123423 I'm old-school when it comes to scopes for these applications, so I like the used analog scope. But it all depends on your space and taste. The signal generators would likely be OK for your application, but I also like the old analog function generators.
I have a problem with my audio (home) amplifier - requires more than a DMM.
Am I on the the right path here:
1. Basically you use a separate signal generator to diagnose the fault?
2. Then signal generator is connected to aux input (or available but not phono) of amplifier and set bandwidth to let say 1khz on sine.
Finally connect scopes ground cable to chassis of amp and used probe to trace fault?
+jon123423 Yes. Not that you can work from either direction. Inject a signal at the input like the AUX, and trace it until the problem is discovered. Or, monitor the output with the scope, and inject signal into the output stage, and work your way backwards until you hit the problem area.
What would happen if u pushed the trigger reset button? cuz i did in my tektronix 2211 and nothing happened.
Trigger Reset only functions to re-arm the trigger when in Single Trigger mode.
I have a Leader1020.
On the volts knob after the 20 mVolts There is numbers 1 and two wrote in pale grey with 7 Mhz.
What does that mean?
Would you measure your current across a resistor using your pk to pk voltage or your rms/avg V? I was in lab today at school and I have forgotten how to use an oscilloscope since last semester... :[
You could measure either, it depends on what you need the measurement for.
+w2aew I'm measuring voltage from a rlc with a diode atm... I appreciate your response =)
Today I picked up a 466 for a very reasonable price. Unfortunately, it did not come with an original Tek probe. It needs cleaning, obviously. The first issue are the four feet to put it in the upright position. The plastic material of those feet has become brittle, the feet broke on first contact with the floor, so I removed them. I have seen a guy on youtube make those feet with 3D printing, maybe somebody would sell me a set. The slots in those feet are not for decoration purposes, they hold the power cord snugly when it is wound around those feet. Tomorrow I will test my 466. I hope there will be not to much unpleasant surprises.
Yeah, the cord-winder tabs on the feet of my 465B have mostly broken off too, and the feet are beginning to break apart. I should probably look for replacements as well. Good luck with your 466!
I cleaned the 466. There were some issues. Two of the rods that couple the knobs to the pots were disconnected. The cardan joints with set screws that connect those rods were broken. These joint are very unobtainable. I managed to, more of less, repair those joints with a drop of super glue. At least, now I can move those pots again. Apparently, all the switches are very noisy, which is not a surprise . What did surprise me, however, is the tiny texts on top of the push buttons; they wiped off just by touching with a damp paper towel. I did not even use soap or alcohol, just plain water. The ink (or decals) on top of those buttons must have been dissolved by sticky, sweaty fingers over the years. I will print and cut tiny stickers on transparant foil to correct that issue. Also, there seems to be an issue with the 'storage' features of this scope. The illumination of the screen behaves rather weird whenever I switch those 'storage' push buttons ( 'save' - 'non-store' - 'var pers' - 'fast'). The screen lights up very bright shortly, then resettles to a more or less normal intensity, whenever I switch those buttons. I have no clue if this is normal behaviour, I have to figure that out.
what is trigger used for? its purpose?
+David Circuity On an analog scope such as this - trigger is used to "start" the sweep of the scope at a particular location of the input waveform, thus synchronizing the sweep/display with the waveform being observed (making it stable on the screen). On a digital scope, triggering is used to help capture a particular event of interest into sample memory (as well as stabilizing the waveform display).
Thank you.
what about the signal mode in triggering ?
I assume that you really mean Single triggering (not signal triggering). Single Triggering in an analog scope like this is really *only* useful when you have a scope camera - because in this mode, only one sweep is generated. A camera would typically be used to capture the single event. In modern digital scopes, the *single* trigger mode is much more useful.
w2aew yes I mean single triggering, thank you for explaining.
Thanks !!! 73s de IW0HEX Pasquale
Triggering is very confusing n till date I can't still understand or learn how to use it
Have you watched this video? th-cam.com/video/OFGm-Pel4Hg/w-d-xo.html
This video is very triggering to SJWs