What Is the BEST Guitar for Jazz? Gibson ES175, ES335 or a Telecaster
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I used to think which guitar you were using mattered for jazz, but it probably doesn't a ton....Here are 3 solid options....
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I think maybe the guitar used for jazz has become less important over time with the likes of Larry Carlton (335), or Julian Lage Telecaster), but jazz has come to encompass more than just the Joe Pass sound. Lee Ritenour plays an L7 (big Gibson - fully hollow) but also plays a Gibson 335, a Les Paul, and frequently a Yamaha silent guitar (nylon) all to great effect. To my point you made them all sound beautiful. A great guitarist is probably the most important variable as you've so convincingly demonstrated. Thanks.
@@godzoo18Effeminate? What a weirdo.
Go wank to Manowar if you want big muscles and masculine power.
And yes, Julian Lage is a more complete musician than any of those you listed, as much as I enjoy Wes and Benson.
Spot on
@@godzoo18 White jazz, purple jazz, green jazz, or blue jazz... all the same to me. Check out Andy Edwards on this topic..Cheers.
@@Wingman52check out Nicholas Payton 😊
@@godzoo18 L7 is a working man’s L5 with trim levels being the major difference. I think they are a reasonable bang for the buck if you’re looking for a fully hollow jazz box.
I use a tele for everything. Combined set of flat 12s on the bass and 13s on the top. Not quite as jazz boxy as a 175 but honestly way more note clarity. Works for me.
Jazz is not just the sound but the language.
My jazz guitar teacher would play an afternoon solo jazz gig then go play a classic rock/blues gig at night .. all with an old Japanese strat. He made a decent living.. at least til the whole live music scene changed.
Was your teacher Jack Pearson?
@@godzoo18Look up Rufus Harley.
The Telecaster has quite a jazz history: Ed Bickert, Mike Stern, Bill Frisell, Tim Lerch, Julian Lage. My favourite guitar at the moment is a ‘49 Gibson ES300 or a ‘43 acoustic L5. The L5 is a non cutaway model with an outrageously quilted maple back and sides that is a real looker. All three of the choices posed in the video would work just fine.
The ES175 takes the cake by a hair. Awesome playing!
All 3 depending on player and style of jazz. All 3 great guitars. Love them equally 😎🤓.
It’s a common misconception that jazz players roll off the tone knob.
It’s more usual to slightly roll off the volume knob.
Glad you mentioned Peerless - I play a Peerless Sunset which is a thinline hollowbody archtop, with Thomastik-Infeld Jazz BeBop 14 gauge strings. These are roundwounds but have smaller windings so smoother than normal roundwounds but more lively than flats. Definitely worth a try especially if you aren’t fortunate enough to have a dedicated jazz guitar.
C est vrai quand on abaisse légérement le volume il y a une petite baisse des aigus ☺
I played a Gibson 175 for many years and for pure Jazz it's great. The only guitar I played and is even better is a Gibson L5, with even more darkness and deepness in tone like Wes Montgomery on "Round Midnight" 🙏
I like the 335 here. Can't beat the tele for an all rounder - what a remarkable instrument! I like the 175 but prefer a nice L5
You should make a blindfold test. Nobody can tell without seeing the instrument 😁
I am surprised you have so much trouble with feedback on the ES175, whenever I have played archtops with humbuckers on gigs that has not been too much of a problem.
I think because the feedback is much easier to control on stolen ES175s :)
@@matt_greene ok, never played a stolen ES175 with a humbucker (as far as I know anyway)
Agree with your comment re the blindfold test. For many players, choosing a guitar is heavily influenced by the image it conveys. I recommend choosing a guitar that feels right in your hands.
I would say the 335, because it tones and hum buckers can adjust to so many sounds.
I am lucky to have all those style guitars, but my ear the one that takes the cake in your video, in terms of pure tone, is your 335 style. Soothing.
I prefer the 330 personally. Yes, I know it has feedback problems but I think the fully hollow body gives a warmer sound. Plus it is a lot lighter.
It would be really interesting to hear your learning guitar story.
A really well-done and thorough demonstration of these three guitars. Thanks, John.
They all sounded great. If I had to choose, I guess the 335 wins...barely. I only dabble in jazz, but I play any style I want on whatever guitar is in my hands, lol. I don't discriminate😅😅😅. Great playing. sir.
The best guitar for jazz is the one that inspires the jazz player the most. That's all that really matters. That's really true of all instruments.
100%
JNC, you are pure talent ❤ and the answer to your question about best jazz guitar, all of the above. It seems to me it’s all in the player, not the guitar, and you’re certainly that player
The playing is sublime. I don’t care which guitar, the music is where I’m at. But if you push me I like the 335 least, the 175 soundslikeMetheney, sp I prefers the articulation of the tele.
The ES175 takes this for me. A Goding Kingpin is an affordable and fantastic option. I am partial to charlie christian piclups as they have a character that is magic. A surprisingly great jass option pickup wise are goldfoils.
I’ve got all three of those guitars. I suggest taking the pick guard off the 335 and the 175. They suck up a lot of the tone and perhaps rattle. I put some foam that I cut out in the F holes of the 175 for playing louder. My Telecaster has flat wound strings. However, I use an unwound third string.
All three guitars have incredible action, but I find that the telecaster is easier to play and hold.
Very nice demo. I chuckled when I ran across this video because last night I was playing the song autumn in New York as you did. Don’t tell me these phones don’t listen to us. Thank you my friend.
I just got the COMINS GCS-1ES … It’s advertised as being a little jazzier (than the GCS-1) it is a semi hollow single cutaway guitar. It is quite jazzy… Maybe a little more than the 335. but yeah obviously all three of these guitars work great. I also have a tele with a humbucker that I like a lot. But honestly I would play an L5 style guitar if I weren’t a smaller guy. I have resolved not to play full scale anymore (my tele is a Gibson scale) … I wish somebody would make a left handed Ibanez GB 10 style guitar. You play great … Proper job!
Thank you ! They all sound good in your hands.
That is insane dynamic control in that intro video
I never thought of a Telecaster as a Jazz guitar until a couple of years ago when I stumbled across an Ed Bickert video. Next was Bill Frisell, then Julian Lage.
And I was so inspired, that I bought a Player HH soon after, and will be upgrading the humbuckers soon.
John, you're a wonderful player. * subscribed *
Tim Lerch. TH-cam him.
Cecil Alexander is great too. - A neck HB (PAF or SD Seth Lover with 0.047 pots) and fat flatwounds is more important for a jazztone than the bodyshape.
(If you go for the Wes sound)
Ted Greene!!
@@topisantakivi1512 Yep, another great Tele Jazz guitarist.
@@What_If_We_TriedSpeaking of solid body guitars, just watched Cecil Alexander beboping on a Jackson Soloist th-cam.com/video/mv6PnDZ05n4/w-d-xo.html
I've got an Epiphone ES175 which I got years ago (adminitedly because it was an affordable version of Steve Howe's) I didn't do much with it until I started learning Jazz and with flatwounds on it I get a great tone out of it with my Katana. I picked up a 1980 Epiphone Emperor (which I think became the Joe Pass signarure model) which also has great Jazz tone but is heavy as feck. My Epi 335 doesn't give as good jazz tone as these two even though I changed the stock pickups to Semour Duncan Jazz pups although it could just be my ears. The Tele is good and as pointed out by others is smaller!
Actually, I’ve moved over to a PRS SE Hollowbody II for jazz. Candidly, I was absolutely shocked at the build quality and overall playability of this instrument. Also, it’s nice to play jazz on a guitar whose body isn’t quite the size of a small automobile.
I have the same guitar and its a beast when it comes to Jazz Tone. Its down to the build quality and the wood used. Awesome guitar.
Full hollow bodies are too hard on my arthritic shoulder. So, I covet a Benedetto Pat Martino, but for the price. And I have a tele. Nice playing!
I just got a PRS semi Hollow. So I'm really I pressed with it for jazz tones,
They all sound wonderful because of the player but the 175 has the magic.
A few years ago when I was playing more, I experimented with fusing a round wound E and a string and then the upper four strings I used flat wound and this was on a Eppa phone Joe Pass model with humbuckers. I kinda like the sound of that
I always liked a Les Paul for playing jazz. Very similar to a 335
J ai une modeste epiphone les paul 100 . Imblement je. N ai pas les moyens de mettre cher au total les 3 guitares 300 euros en parfait état ! En jazz l epiphone c est super avec beaucoup de sultain . Ma télécaster gear4music knoxville super aussi et mon ibanez afs 75t aussi .toute régler par mes soins .... Cela dépend des morceaux et de l humeur ! 😉🎶🎶
I forgot to say, you play beautifully and thanks for making the video.
I essentially play jazz, but I also love blues and rock blues; I've changed several Gibson guitars, now I use an ES175 SH signature and I think it's fantastic for playing jazz
All three were totally passable, the 175 is my personal favorite. The more "wood" or guitar body I hear on the single pickup, big box with f-holes, the closer, IMHO, you get to that "jazz" sound. But, then you have a 1 dimensional guitar... I can make my HSS Fender strat sound pretty close just by putting it on the neck pickup and turning the tone knob almost all the way down (but not all the way!), and then play a Journey tune the next minute!. I heard Jocelyn Gould play on her Benedetto: she can completely change the tone by how she holds the pick and the angle of the guitar! Amazing
Beautiful sounds, tasteful playing, all sound great. ES335 has an amazing shimmer to it (with quite a bit of reverb, I notice).
My Eastman Ar503ce has a magical jazz tone. It sounds good even through a roland cube. My other guitars can't compete with how good that thing sounds clean.
But many great jazz players have used teles. Ted Greene, Ed Bickert, Tim Lerch, etc.
By the way, i love your jazz playing.
I am glad i got into jazz quite early, at around my 2nd year of playing. Its one of my favorite genres to play due to its difficulty.
chinese guitar alert
@@donsimons9810 Yup, they are great Chinese guitars.
Dang. The 165/175 sounds amazing. I was going to call for a P-90 guitar like an ES 125, but that 175 has the tone.
Es 175d player for a year or so. Very few issues with feedback. I recommend. I use it for rock and roll and it sounds awesome with some dirt.
All 3 guitars did great. Agreed, the 335 is probably the best all around, most versatile guitar when factoring for live performing. I was amazed how well the Tele sounded, and it is a great option when you're playing live and don't want to worry about toting around something like the Gibsons.
But I was completely floored by the beautiful lush tones from that ES-165 (175). Judging on tone itself, that guitar is the gold standard for jazz. If I was just a home player, it would be an easy choice. But because of the feedback issues, probably not a good choice for live use in a group setting.
One final note - I would've loved to see a Les Paul included in this comparison, as it's a guitar that is widely owned (like the Tele). A good Gibson option if you already own one and don't want to fork out the extra dough for an ES.
I own all three guitars and some others. I prefer ES 175 and Ibanez GB-10 made in Japan.Of course,Telecaster and ES 335 are wonderful guitars.
Depends a lot on what kind of player you are. The 175 has a very woody tone and as a plywood hollowbody it has the typical pecussive "thunk" to the tone. For classic bebop/straightahead jazz you can't go wrong with one. I personally love the classic "Jim Hall" tone of a 50s ES-175 w/ p90s through old octal Gibson amp. If you're someone who plays more modern, maybe tries to achieve more of a singing quality to the tone or want to use effects, you'd be better of with the 335 or the Tele. Also, if you play more intricate voicings with lot of innervoice movements, the sustain of the 335 or a Tele will serve you well. I recently took my Tele (52 hot rod model with a mini at the neck) to a jazz gig and was very pleasantly surprised with the clean jazz tone I was getting out of it with my AER 60.
The rosewood /ebony frets on the telecaster TOTALLY changes the sound. Wow
they all sound wonderful--loved the woodiness snap to the Herb Ellis 165. it is that sound that only some Gibsons give out and through a Fender tube amp that defines the old Gibson arch top sound.
They all sound exquisite.
Because of how you play them, all three are remarkably similar.
My view is that good quality full bodied, hollow guitars sound fractionally more authentic for jazz, but only at very low volumes. I have two examples: when I saw Pat, playing his 175, his sound was muddy and blurred. I once used a Variax on a small gig, then was kindly lent a 175 for the second half of the gig. The Variax was infinitely superior- both to play, and gauging on audience reaction. I make of that what I will…
My benchmark guitar tone comes from the nylon string classic. As I move to harder styles of music I like brighter tones. I trade the brightness and sustain of solid body construction over to the resonance and warmth of hollow body F hole designs. Same goes for string choice, round wounds emphasize brightness and harmonics, while flat wounds reinforce a strong fundamental. I always try to get a genuine and authentic tone from the design of the instrument I choose. This holds true for all stringed instruments even banjos or bass guitar. Try a light wipe of Williams Lectric Shave on a clean set of flat wounds to see if there is any Jazz in that.
I use a 14” carved archtop made by luthier Ed Schaefer for jazz. Also have had good luck with a parts Tele with humbuckers and a 2014 ES Les Paul (semi-hollow).
Beautiful playing. You’re very good. Of the three, the 175 sounds the best. Convincingly to me. Plus you seem to “hear and feel it” better than the other two. The full, throaty sound of the full hollow is imitated but never duplicated by a semi or solid. It’s “one dimensional” as you say, but if you want to be in that “dimension” it’s the only way. But one does give up the versatility, and dealing with the feedback live is so challenging. But if it’s “the sound” you want then it’s the 175.
I thought you made them all sound great and wouldn’t care which one you showed up to the gig with. It’s a frame of mind, not one particular instrument, it’s what you do with it
This sound is just devine🥰
And the Gibson has lots of veneer on it....Gibson's semi-hollowbodies like the ES-335 and ES-339 have tops and backs constructed of layers (either 3 or 4) of maple veneer. My understanding is that the veneers are assembled in successive cross-grain layers with the top layer having its grain longitudinal to the length of the guitar. The tops and backs are approximately 1/4" in thickness after layup.
For me, the best tone for that jazz sound is the perfect ES-335 guitar. I've always liked this guitar, the sound is bright and tasty, and maybe because I'm a fan of LC, and also after listening to and enjoying, for many years, many albums by many other artists, who played with this beautiful guitar.
Now (I'm 51) I'm a beginner guitarist, and I'm in a bit of a difficult choice, because I'm hesitating to buy maybe this year a Gibson 335 or 345, or Ibanez, or Epiphone ES-339 pro , or Tokai , etc.
The good news is that you don't have to spend more than $3000 dollars to get a good Guitar for Jazz. Their are many in the $1000 to $3000 range or even less. Specifically Hollow Body and Semihollow Body Guitars by Keisel, D'Angelico, Ibanez, Gibson, Epiphone, Washburn, and Eastman to name a few. Even though the Gibson L-5 is in many ways the Hollowbody Jazz Guitar that all others are judged by, it's the ES-175 that's one of the most popular Jazz Guitars. Thanks.
My experiences with flat wounds / round wound strings: With a solid wooden bridge for jazz arch tops, you are most probable better off with flat wounds / wound G string: that bridges are designed to work with flat wounds. If you have a metal bridge, you can set it up either for wound G string or plain G string with adjusting the G string length.
I just bought the DeAndrlico DC Excel, normally 1900, i got a returned one in mint condition for 1000. I'm pretty happy with it.
Whatever guitar you have that inspires you to play, is the right guitar for the job.
I use a thinline tele with flatwounds on the lower 3 strings and elixir polyweb 10s on the higher few strings. i also use a harmony comet with polyweb 9s. gotta say the flatwounds do matter for the strings with the thicker windings, sounds less bright and more mellow. overall both do the job, but i love the feel of the flatwounds and the overall slicker feeling (which is probably why i use polywebs). main thing id say would actually be the touch/the pick you use because i love collecting picks and even among different jazz tipped picks, the material and thickness make such a difference in how i play and how it sounds, so id suggest to play around with different pick choices! personally i love the primetone range of picks, the ones that are translucent amber!
THANKS, JNC!
Yes!!!! ❤❤❤
But not only for Jazz....
The best one is the one you have!
which amp are you using?? sounds really great
You play beautifully and have provided an excellent analysis. Would love to hear a hollow body with a floating neck pickup.
For me it’s the 175 bc the ability to have the amplified and acoustic sound simultaneously and the playability of the Gibson scale length
John, I just purchased a Greg Bennet Lasalle JZ2. It is an Archtop… I got it new from UK 🇬🇧 to Colombia 🇨🇴 from Gear4Music. It costed exactly $450USD + Shipping. It’s sooooo worth it. An incredible, outstanding Archtop, not only for its price range. I’ve seen them 2nd hand in Australia for over $1000USD. It’s is very much superior to its Ibanez/Epiphone etc kind of competitors.
This is the second time I advice you to try it out. It’s sooo worth it. A great great value.
Cheers John 🤙🏽✌🏽🎵⚡️
They are great sounding but so big!
@@genec8393 yes. They are big, but to me that’s not a bad thing though. I like it. It gives a totally different experience. I feel it familiar too since I’ve come from classical. I think Jazz is probably the closest of genres when it comes to classical guitar. Anyways. Thanks for your reply
Beautiful, oh 🥹
Telecaster sounds great . Your playing is inspirational .
A 72 Telecaster Thinline with wide range Humbuckers is also worth a mention .
Obviously as your beautiful plating proves at the beginning any guitar that makes sound wielded by a good player can play jazz
The tele color is amazing
The trick to using a hollow body on stage is limiting the stage volume. Put the amp further away , lower the volume and don't be close to the drums. Or better yet, use in-ears and modeler direct FOH. I've seen a plexiglass baffle used in front of the amp too.
Loved the Pat Metheny ibanez but traded it in on Gibson 175 Have regretted it ever since..
I guess the 175 is the most appropriate for jazz, particularly with the flatwounds. The 335 is the most versatile and I think it would be worth trying flatwounds on the Tele. Cheers Great playing btw...
I have an Aria Pro 2 Herb Ellis model that I bought in 1990 for $400.00. I can actually gig with it. What a lucky find.
Great playing
Hey, John….i’ve had a 175 for years, but have gotten away from that dark tone….i use strats and teles now and don’t lower the tone that much… Danny Gatton said years ago that lowering the tone so low was covering up the playing, making it too easy. Danny made a jazz album in the 90s with a bright sounding L5…and Wes did not lower the tone that much-u can “hear” him playing…..in summary, 175 is way too dark for me….😮
“Jazz” is pretty broad term. Sonny Sharrock played his jazz with a Les Paul into a dimed Marshall stack. Al Di Meola played a Les Paul into a guitar synthesizer. Allan Holdsworth played a SynthAxe guitar that WAS a synthesizer.
All of them sounds amazing!
Gorgeous playing - and lovely tone from all three guitars. I think you’re overly modest about your jazz chops.
I was surprised at how much I loved the Tele. I can’t say I enjoyed Tom the 175 more than the 335, despite hearing the difference.
Another great video John and great explanation and tips. Do you have posted your preset you were using for this comparison. Love the tone.
Great sound out of all 3. I agree with the assessments. Your amp setup has a nice reverb and / or delay. What are you using for that?
I liked the Tele more, Julian Lage fan here 😅
They all sound good - beautiful playing! Never owned any of these 3 but, depending on the style of jazz I guess a 175 would be the 'purist' approach (Metheny), 335 maybe 'modern / a little bluesy' (thinking Scofield). On the odd occasion when I needed to fake some jazz chords / lines in a short soundtrack I would flip to neck pick-up on my Les Paul and wind the tone way back but about 15 years ago noticed an Epiphone Broadway on sale for about USD 350 and grabbed it and have come to love it - especially for finger-style work. Bill Frisell has certainly made good use of a Tele on some stuff. John McLaughlin has been playing PRS Custom solid bodies for the last few years!
I like a 335 for Jazz it just seems perfect but with small tweaks it could be a Les Paul or Tele. The tones here are all lovely as is the playing and frankly listening blind I'd be pushed to distinguish if I'm listening to the music not "which guitar".
Personally not a 335 fan in general, but I did think the tele and the 175 both sounded the best here. I like teles for solo playing because they sustain a bit better, but a fully hollow electric just has a sound too.
Creo que la guitar telecaster se adapta a todo estilo, pero la magia esta en los dedos, y un buen amplificador ayuda mucho!! Gracias
Wonderful performance John and I think the 175 might have had the nicest sound (clearly this is personal preference). Great work.
Agreed, the sife of the body is just audible, overdriven, the smaller guitars would come into their own but clean, the es175 reigns supreme to my ears!
I've owned a Samick rl5 for about 15 years. It's kind of a cross between an es175 and a 335. It's a 175 shape that's semi hollow with a centre block and not as cumbersome.
I've got an old ES-175, and tried round wound strings on it. They killed its sultry, warm tones, and defeated the purpose of its design. I use flat wound strings exclusively on it. Regarding feedback, I've read that on hollow and semi-hollow body archtop guitars, a number of people report better results by blocking the F-holes, instead of stuffing the guitars with things like cloth or foam. 🤷
Why no flats on the ES-335 or Tele? I've had TI flats on my tele, sounded good to my ears for clean picking!
I find flats don't really work across as many styles as rounds - but use them on my jazz guitars!
The 175 sounds really good to my ear but all those sound great....I have an archtop Ibanez Custom 125 and a 335 and the archtop has the tone but the 335 has articulation and sustain...teles are very good in the mix...they cut through with a band...for solo guitar I go with the 175
Let's no forget Mike Stern on Tele, or Steve Khan, Will Bernard etc on 335's
About feedback, I play a Fender D’Aquisto Elite arch top and had F hole inserts made for it by Doug’s Plugs. Feedback gone. I’ve played jams using my Quilter Aviator Gold and single Telonics 12” speaker going against 2 guys with Marshal half stacks and a loud drummer and dominated with my huge fat sound. Seriously made S types and metal guitars sound puny and anemic by comparison. Unbelievable but true. Check out the Telonics speaker by the way. JBL K130? Clone, made for pedal steel (by a scientific supply company owned by the guy who invented radio collar tracking for wildlife) with Eminence. 300 watts, 7.5 lbs. and side by side tested with a real mid ‘70’s JBL I could not hear a difference other than my 12” had more low end than the original JBL 15”. Best all round guitar speaker I’ve owned in 50 years of boutique amp searching. Most players would kill for amps I’ve owned and gigged. I wouldn’t trade any of them for the consistent performance and response of my Quilter Aviator Gold or Tone Block 202 (even better maybe). 200 watt tone monster head that weighs 5 lbs. and can be used as a DI with no speaker load for recording or house mains. I’ve never heard of even one failing. Or making noise. Makes me feel a fool for dragging my 1980 Mesa Mark IIb around for 20+ years of gigs. (bought new by me when they were hand made in Randy Smith’s basement by special order only). Now my amp and speaker together weigh 25 lbs and sound better. I don’t know about all the new models but I won’t ever switch back after using my Quilter amps. You do a great job here mr. JNC. Best to you from Portland Oregon!
335 ❤
For my money 175 but they all sound great.
Ummmm, my 1982 ibanez george benson guitar plugged straight into a Quilter amp reverb at 5. exquisite tone for bebop and jazz
i really enjoyed the song at the beginning of the video so much i signed up for patreon. can’t find your tabs tho, anywhere i should look?
I choose a Guild Artist Award myself, an 89' to be exact. This is what it's for.
I wouldn't even pretend that I'm some great jazz player, but I do have a a couple of hand-carved beauties. I am really careful with my muting techniques on those guitars (with both hands) in order to manage volume and feedback.
Whatever you have and want to play - is the best for anything. Equalizer in there! :D
I have a few guitars for jazz. An Ibanez ag93 (cheap George Benson type smaller full hollow) pups swapped to Ibanez super80s, a the loar 615 I think it's called which is an acoustic arch top, a gretsch streamliner centre block jr with paf pickup swapped in from the stock and an Ibanez as 83 with alnico paf pups swapped in (formerly their cheap overwound ceramics). All sound good, but the most convincing things was with my vintage 70s Ibanez ar2630 with original super80s pup (underwound ceramic paf alike) which just has the sound (finding that the turns/wind has more impact than the magnet type - Ibanez overwound ceramic pup sound dull but the super80s have the jazz sound ¯\_(ツ)_/¯).
The as83 is out of the case so it gets played the most though.
Saw a friend do jazz on an ibanez RG HSH shredder and it sounded amazing. No turtle could deny.
Your Jazz playing is nice!
NOBE OF THE ABOVE it’s either Gretsch or D Angelico
Jesus-Freaking-H-Christ! That was beautiful.
What's the deal with tape on the neck pickup? Ive seen this a few times on jazz boxes mostly.
Some people but tape on to prevent the pick from potentially taping the top of the pickup
Notes are a little too bell-like or too high which is a typical gripe I have about performances and the guitar and its settings.