Blackmagic Pyxis vs Zcam E2F6
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 เม.ย. 2024
- Blackmagic Pyxis has entered the chat... Zcam E2F6 was already here.
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#blackmagic #blackmagicpyxis #pyxis #Zcam #Zcame2f6 #cinemacamera - ตลก
Nice video. Agree with a lot of it, though some of it is a bit specious. The ZCam doesn't shoot 15 stops. That's marketing hype. Independent testing shows it's about 12.8 at best. So same as the BMD. Also ZRAW is high bitrate H265. Very different than what BMD has. And yes, I own both a BMD and a ZCam, and shoot RAW on both.
You're absolutely right. I didn't go into it in my video because it was already longer than I intended, but things like dynamic range are always lower in practice than indicated on the spec sheet. I haven't done any dynamic range tests, myself, so I'll trust your 12.8, that feels pretty accurate. But, I see the spec sheet as a starting point, in which case the Zcam's starting point is wider than the Pyxis. That said, as I mentioned, no one has been able to do hands on tests of the dynamic range yet, but I'm betting the in-practice dynamic range of the Pyxis will still be lower than the Zcam. this is why I'm eagerly awaiting reviewers to get their hands on the Pyxis so these tests can be done! ... and yes, you're right about Zraw vs Braw, but Zraw is still a viable codec. Isn't it better to have the option of other codecs? What happens when you find yourself in a position where ProRez is the more appropriate codec? This is where we have to figure out what works best for us individually. Are we okay shooting in Braw and transcoding? or would we rather just shoot in ProRez?
@@ThomasTulakTotally agree. Though I suspect the BM and the ZCam dynamic range will be withing spitting distance of each other. And neither is great. Good for 8 years ago, but not so much for today. I got to post some RED Dragon R3D footage over the weekend alongside some Sony A7s3 footage and got a quick reminder of how nice it is to have wide range and real RAW. And god that Sensor is 15 years old at this point.
Totally agree on the ability to shoot multiple codecs. Thank goodness my Blackmagic still shoots BRAW, ProRes, and DNxHD!
@@PerroneFord You are 100% right, and thats the trade off with a $3k camera.
@@ThomasTulakyou should read cineds review on the e2f6. Dynamic range is slightly worse than the pocket 6k, yes that one from 2019
They did mention the tests being wonky for some reason. But from what I can understand from the data is not the most reliable for the e2f6 and they have changed the way they measure newer cameras so the 2 results cannot be directly compared.
The p6k has the most total stops at 15.7 but unfortunately the shadows are noisy. At snr 2 you get 11.8
The zcam gets 12.8 at snr2 but cined says something is amiss. Anyways total stops visible are 13.8. cined says they would put snr 2 as 11.6 from their judgement
The c6k is similar at snr 1 (12.9) but not as many stops as p6k. 11.6 at snr 2 and 14.7 in total
@@8lec_RI will look up that video, but I have been using the E2F6 for the past two years, as well as the Ursa mini pro. I haven’t done any actual field “tests,” but my experience from actually using it regularly, and editing footage from it regularly tells me the dynamic range is very good on the E2F6. I’ve been able to recover blue sky and clouds from blown out sky, I’ve been able to recover details from shadows at night… I can only talk from my experience using the camera regularly for the past couple years.
I own a Canon R, and its spec sheet indicates 13.5 stops dynamic range, which is higher than the spec sheet for the Pyxis indicates. And the E2F6 blows the Canon R out of the water. This I know from personal experience.
Thank you. I was wondering why no one else was making This comparison. I even like Zcam footage a little bit more than I like blackmagic footage. Great video!!! Are you able to make a comparison between Zraw and Braw? That was my deciding Factor. I really want raw capability and I don’t know what I’m getting into with either of the two.
Thank you! yes, I can do that. I'll make a video about it, but basically with Braw the camera is capturing all the data, not just what the camera's current settings are. so, for example, once you've got the footage in post, after the fact, you have the option to change certain things, like the ISO setting of the footage. Because the camera captured the image at every ISO setting. with Zraw you don't have that option. Zraw is like a more advanced ProRez422Hq, with a higher color bit depth. so Zraw will see more colors than ProRez, but you are locked into what ever ISO setting the camera was set to when you shot. The downside to both Braw and Zraw is the amount of uncompressed data means really really big file sizes. That's kinda why ProRez422 is basically the go-to standard. it's still a high color bit depth, 10-12bit depending on the camera, but its compressed enough to not kill you with file sizes. Realistically, Raw (be it B or Z) is probably overkill for the majority of projects any of us would be shooting... especially if what you're shooting is just going to live on TH-cam because TH-cam compresses the crap out of everything, so even if you shot in Raw, on TH-cam it's gonna look like low Rez H.264
@@ThomasTulak Dude thats the best description Ive heard thus far and this has been a burning question for years lol!! appreciate you
CineD already demonstrated the dynamic range of a Zcam vs Blackmagic. You can clearly see the Zcam has LESS dynamic range than the Blackmagic in the CineD shadow window test. The Zcam dynamic range of 15 stops is marketing fluff. The Zcam only has 12 stops of usable range not 15 stops. FYI: you can export ProRes from Fusion Studio with the Saver node using your same DaVinci Resolve license key. Fusion Studio can export Apple ProRes on all platforms. The Pyxis will be Blackmagic's number one selling camera. Blackmagic has already hinted at more models coming in 2025.
You can believe that all you want. I haven’t done any “tests” but I literally use the Zcam e2f6 and the BMD Ursa mini pro on a regular basis, and from my hands on personal experience, I’ve been very impressed with the Zcam’s dynamic range. I’ve been able to recover blue sky and clouds out of blown out sky, and I’ve been able to recover pattern details out of crushed blacks… all I have to go on is my personal first hand experience, but 15 stops seems close to right to me.
And yes, I know I can transcode. I mentioned that in the video. There is more than one way to transcode, it can be done with without davinci resolve. My point was that transcoding requires an extra step in post. If I record to ProRes natively then transcoding is not necessary. And I’m not so hung up of brand loyalty that I need to give myself extra steps, just to stay with BMD, when I can achieve my goal easier with a different camera.
The F6 is a superior cam on the whole line. It's better than any BMCC inkl. Ursa Pro G2, better than Komodo etc. We own all that systems inkl. Arri Alexa Mini. And if I have to shoot at night, I usually choose the F6 over Alexa Mini - the performance of the F6 in the dark is phenomenal.
@@golovkoff I have zero interest in any E-mount system.
@@andynonimuss6298 E-Mount system? I didn't say a word about it.
All your points seem pretty reasonable. One point in my book for the Pyxis is the ability to create proxies and upload to drop box via a tethered phone. That's a big deal for my workflow which shifts the decision to the Pyxis over the ZCam E2-F6. EDIT: Blackmagic also has SDI based ProRes recorders. Just saying. Its an option.
Oh for sure! Both cameras can record the hi-rez and the proxy at the same time, but only the Pyxis can send the proxies to the network right now. Very convenient… though I could be wrong but I don’t think the Pyxis sends those proxies to Dropbox, it sounded like it sends to a Blackmagic cloud that you’d have to buy separately. Blackmagic doesn’t like to use other people’s software like that.
"Great insights! Totally agree about the PYSIS and cinema cameras not being everyone's cup of tea. I was this close to getting the Z cam because of its form factor. But now, with Blackmagic dropping this box camera, fingers crossed it's the one. I'm gonna hold off and see if it vibes better with my workflow compared to my trusty BMPCC 6K Pro. Currently, rocking the Panasonic S5IIx for run-and-gun action and doubling it up as my B cam to the Pocket."
I am very interested in your journey. Do please let me know what you end up deciding.
I love the Zcam E2S6 and also a BMD user and I did preorders the PYXIS just to get on that waiting list because the camera won't be released until sometime in June and that means August and September for some of us but in the meantime I'll be watching those lucky TH-camr who BMD sent the camera to for a review and if I see anything I don't like I'll then cancel my order but if not I'll be using along with my Zcam. BTW you've made some good points.
I see a lot of people a bit peeved about no full size XLRs. Is there a real difference between mini XLR and full size? I've been using the Pocket 4K for years and it's never really been an issue to hook up my Sennheiser using the mini and the quality sounds fine. To me it's the same thing. A cable in your camera. The 3.5 port could be used to get audio from lavs like the Rode Wireless Go system. As someone that does occasionally do run and gun, audio is pretty much taken care of. Of course, on bigger shoots I hire a sound person.
Great video.
On an unrelated note.. can you explain the logistics of shooting a feature film for Tubi. Maybe some dos and donuts to make it worth it for earnings potential?
I'd be happy to! The next video I'm going to post on my channel will tell how I made my feature for $10K and got distribution for it, to make it available for AVOD (Advertising Video On Demands, so free but with ads) on Tubi.
@@ThomasTulak thank you so much. I'm very interested in the Tubi sphere of filmmaking but I don't know the logistics.
How much should I spend on budget for a targeted average performance return.
I don't want to spend $40k when I can make 4 films for $10k if they perform all the same.
Any info on this would help
@@fourth1000 I totally get that. Couple things to consider. 1st, Tubi is an AVOD platform. PRO: no pay wall so people are more likely to watch your movie if they can watch it for free. Unless you give them a good reason to watch then even a $2 pay wall might be enough to stop people from watching. CON: you're making money from the ads, so you make less money per view than you would with TVOD (Transactional Video on Demand, ie: Amazon Prime Video, no ads but you pay to rent). With that in mind, how well your film does, and how much ROI (return on investment) you earn depends on how well you market your film. No one's gonna watch it if they don't know it exists... If you can market the film well enough, or hire a PR person / publicist to market it, then spending $40K on a single film might be worth it if it means you make a better film that people will more want to watch. If not, then a $10K film might be better so at least it gets made, and people CAN see it... There are a whole lot of things to talk about, way more than that, so I'll make a whole video about this stuff!
The problem is that BMD specified that this camera is for the audience you are saying it is not for. Also, being that many of us have dedicated ourselves to the B-Raw, Resolve ecosystem and need a dedicated box camera that does have ND’s, a top mounted touch screen display and side mounted XLRs like their 6K pro it’s not out of line to be disappointed in this design. We are happy it satisfies some but if that side screen were made into a separate top mounted option allowing room for some of the thing like proper XLR inputs ( which I still use as a back up audio feed from my sound man) it would have been 1 rockstar of a camera at a far lesser cost to manufacture. And like the Z-Cam they should have made interchangeable lens mounts with the option of ND filters, period. For these reasons I will not be buying the Pyxis instead I will be keeping my BMCC6K with the PODTECH modification with a top mounted touch screen and XLR rear mount which makes the functionality of that camera outstanding. If PODTECH is able to do the same with the 6K Pro I will be 90% satisfied with that camera for the long haul. I only which it was capable of shooting 129fps in 4K. It’s a shame that 3rd part manufactures are out designing BMD’s own design team.
You wouldn’t ask for a spoon that could be used as a fork from a company that also makes sporks.
If BMD is saying the camera is meant for run and gun shooters then either they don’t know what they have, or they are trying not to alienate an entire market of potential customers, which makes perfect business sense.
But the point of a box style camera is not just cause it looks cool, it’s for riggability. Box cameras are modular, meant for rigging. If, for example, the screen flipped out that would make it more difficult to rig any accessories on that side. The point of modular riggable cameras is so the user can build it out how they wish, with different external accessories.
The very fact that you want internal ND’s, and full size XLR’s means that you need a more run and gun style camera, not a modular riggable camera. So it’s good that you’re sticking with your MBCC6K, because that camera is meant for that use.
And the fact that the Pyxis and the BMCC6K are the same camera just in different body’s means they are aimed at different customers. I need a camera I can rig out easier, so I never even considered the football shaped models.
The Pyxis has a specific target customer and that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with that. Not every product is meant for every person. There’s no sense being disappointed with a product that just wasn’t meant for you.
And if you’re in the BRAW / davinci resolve ecosystem then that’s great! I’m not knocking BRAW, It’s a very powerful codec! More power to you! …I’m just saying that not everyone needs BRAW all the time. I, myself, need the option of ProRez, for business reasons, so I’m going with Zcam, and that’s fine too. Not everyone needs to be in the BMD ecosystem.
Well balanced comparison for a specific job. 👏🏾👌🏾
Great review, as one of the only balanced perspectives focusing on the need to understand one's on use case(s), as the most important prerequisite to choosing gear. Thanks!
Agree. Seems ike everyone else forgot about zcam in terms of the price range similarity
Also lens mounts are not user removable, not yet atleast
Yeah, I saw that was confirmed after I made this video.
Excellent advice 👍 I've been using a Z Cam E2 F6 for 2 years, love it, and much as I'd like to try/get a Pyxis, it's too soon to tell if it'd be worth it. No rentals where I am, which sucks, you have to take a leap of faith. Glad I did with Z Cam though, it's been a work horse for me.
Nice! Yeah, Zcam is a workhorse, for sure! Sucks that there's no way to rent it where you are (have you tried Sharegrid? you can rent from a person, not a rental house) if that's the case though, the next best thing would be to wait for some online reviewers to get their hands on it and test it out and see what they think of it.
@@ThomasTulak thanks for the suggestion, appreciate it. I'm In Switzerland up in the mountains, such solutions have yet to arrive here...!
Yep, going by a balance of reviews is my mainstay 😉
This clears up a lot for me! I'm currently using a Canon R6 Mark ii and am curious about upgrading. The Pyxis sounds cool, but doesn't seem that great for me and my style of shooting. Super informative!
It’s good that you’re thinking in those terms. I know a new camera release is exciting, but it’s definitely important to which camera is right for you and your specific needs.
I’ve had a F6 for 3 years now. I use it more than any of my REDs (Raptor and Komodo).
Fuck yes! Thanks for this video !
Get a Blackmagic Video Assist, record ProRes to an SSD connected to it. BRAW/ProRes issue solved.
True, that would solve the problem. But I dislike recording externally. To easy for something to go wrong. I’ve seen shoot days ruined cause of issues with external recording setups. Recording internally is more reliable.
Plus I’m not so hung up on brand loyalty. If the Zcam can solve the problem, internally, and for the same price, then that’s ideal for me.
But also, my other point is figure out what your specific use needs are and get the right camera for you. If the Pyxis + video assist + external SSD is the setup that is right for you, then more power to ya!
Not to mention that you’d need an older model video assist. Everything BMD releases after the Ursa 12K will only have Braw. They stopped paying the Apple licensing fee, so they can’t use ProRez anymore. You’d need a video assist that came out before that.
And the problem with that is BMD doesn’t support older models. We had a multicam switcher break and they wouldn’t fix it because there was a newer model. They told use we had to just buy the newer model.
@@ThomasTulak where are you getting the information that they’re dropping ProRes support from the Video Assist? The reason they aren’t using ProRes in their new cameras is because they would have issues matching the sensor performance in ProRes with their color science in BRAW, and that it requires more processing to record ProRes. They stated this in an interview at NAB. They have already licensed ProRes for their Video Assist models, and they’re still selling those models.
Also, recording on those with the Pyxis is more reliable than it ever has been on their pocket cameras because the Pyxis has the more reliable SDI connection.
I understand if you don’t want to use one, but it’s a viable option.
@@RonCoy Through "company X" I have a contact inside blackmagic. I can't say anything more specific than that because I don't want to lose my job, and I don't want to risk my contact losing theirs. (in fact, I portly shouldn't have said what I already said)... My contact told me that Blackmagic is no longer paying the Apple licensing fee for ProRez. This means they legally can't use it anymore, on any new product. Of course they aren't going to say that publicly, so they are telling everyone about the issues matching the sensor performances in ProRez, and that may be true, and that may be the reason they have elected to stop paying for the license. None the less, according to my contact, they have stopped paying the license, so no new product released after the Ursa 12k will have ProRez.
I bought an F6 to go w my S6 a week before Pyxis was announced - was a bit worried at first but overall I think F6 was a good move - just would love 12G SDI and a format that DaVinci recognises
Davinci doesnt read zraw? I tried it a few days ago and it worked.
As in DaVinci doesn’t recognise Zlog as a colour space - haven’t tried zraw yet but I should!
Good point where a lot of youtubers did a knee jerk reaction some just saying what other youtubers have said . Basically the camera was made for a reason and it will be popular no matter what the "influencaratti" says. Yes its a new word just tag me when you use it.
I was going to dislike this video till I've heard the last part about the Braw.
Honestly, I don't understand why such a requested and awaited camera should be limited to just one usage scenario and why even spend time to find reasons to justify that.
I'm aware that there always have to be limitations, moreover on budget products, and I'm ok with some of them, however limiting the usability of any tool on purpose and for no valid reasons it's really hideous from any company.
Here personally I'm talking about the lack of codecs, of the heavily cropped 50p (while the 48 is still usable), lack of NDs (but eventually understandable), the single XLR.. and that fixed screen which is such a nonsense.
Of course you can add another SDI monitor to use the camera (but not controlling all the settings) or their very good and expensive viewfinder, but to force customers down this route is just unacceptable to me, because despite I use external screens most of the time on various cameras there are still times in which I want/need to use the onboard monitor.
Now, having such a nice bright screen why I have to be limited by such a stupid intended design choice?
As a final funny sidenote, Blackmagic states in their own website how this camera is meant to be used in different kind of situations and aimed to various shooters, including content creators.
You're actually right but never underestimate the power of branding. For example, RED users pretend like no other suitable cameras exist and pay an insane premium for RED gear while insisting that the brand means absolutely nothing. Blackmagic is just a sexier brand than Zcam and thus people are hyped for it.
100% truth right there! yeah, RED users and BMD users have their own club, complete with merch. They aren't just cameras, they are a way of life... Brand loyalty is an amazing thing, and both RED and BMD have been able to capitalize on it! BMD is absolutely sexier than Zcam.
@@ThomasTulak Well BM is also a much bigger company.
@@twowheelslife5611 that's true. BMD is a much bigger company, and Zcam is a much smaller company; and there a pros and cons to both. example, what I would call a pro for a smaller company like Zcam, they have better support and community interaction. Zcam even has a Facebook group where many people from the company, including the CEO will read and participate in direct discussions with people... On the otherhand, I have seen firsthand Blackmagic stop offering support for outdated products. With Company-X we had a Blackmagic video switcher stop working. We called customer support and they told us they wouldn't fix it because they had released a newer model, and we should just buy the newer model.
but, because Blackmagic is a bigger company, and their products are more widely used than Zcam, it is a lot easier to find 3rd party supporting products for BMD, like LuTs, especially LOG to Rec 709 conversion LuTs.
@@ThomasTulak Completely agree on what you said. The BM attitude however is turning to be not customer friendly at this point, and it's both a pity and a self goal since it mines the customer support (excuse the pun) that was somehow part of their initial philosophy of customers satisfaction and the reason why ppl love their products.
Z Cams are low quality. But you can use it. Not all filmmakers produce good quality productions.
It's a lower quality competitor. I have owned the Z Cam. It has lower dynamic range and has a extrme green shift. Z Cam is not a very good camera.
That’s not been my experience. I’ve been using the Zcam in a professional setting for 2 years, and have been very impressed with it.
Yeah I haven’t run into that at all……..
Been using the z cam s6 for nearly 3 years
Hi Thomas ....As a DOP on features films and drama shoots here in the UK .....BRAVO BRAVO ...BRAVO .....you succinctly covered all the salient points regarding " Who is this PYXIS camera for ??? " comparing it with the ZCAM .
For most people : ..... " the camera you should buy is a MIRRORLESS hybrid .... with the the flippy screen etc " .
I liked your video ...please produce more like this. There is no doubt the PYXIS will be a popular camera, because of the TH-camr influencers ....in the meantime I might just take a look at the ZCAM range ...it has been on my radar for awhile , to use on my own independent film making shoots.
So I should use a mirrorless camera (or a proper cinema camera) if I want to shoot anything that doesn't fit in the really tight specific usage intended (but not stated) for this model? Why ever?
Have a look but the Z Cam has low dynamic range and an extreme colour shift. I have owned one. I tried to sell it and couldn't. Ended up in the trash bin. that's where you'll end up putting it.
@@user-nr5wx7md4dI’ve seen you comment this a couple time trying to bash the cameras. I’ve used it for 3 years now and there deffiantly not low quality…….
@@user-nr5wx7md4d yeah, I don't agree. I've been using a Zcam with the professional production company I work for (that you've likely heard of) for the past 2 years that I've been with the company, and not only have I found it to be a real work horse camera that delivers great quality video, bit I've been repeatedly impressed with the dynamic range.
13:01 Not great. Why not buy an ursa mini, if you can't use this for uncontrolled environments as is.
14:37 But, why not buy a better quality camera rather than make excuses.
20:06 It's really like a mini ursa mini less than a few things, rather than so boxy. :(
24:10. Yep, they don't bother about that.
25:00. Yep.
Well an Ursa is more expensive, so it really depends on your budget, and your specific use scenario. I don’t do a whole lot of run-n-gun so I don’t really need a camera suited to that. I need a camera that’s meant to be rigged, cause that’s my use… but also, that’s what the cinema 6K is geared towards. The Pyxis and the cinema 6K are basically the same camera, except one is geared to controlled environments and the other is geared towards run-n-gun… but yeah, if you have the budget to spend a few more grand than an Ursa would be better than either.
Guys Peter Jackson spiting pure facts here. I'm dizzy with videos at this point of youtubers complaining about this camera when it's clear it ain't for them.