'Let Me Stop You There': Neil Gorsuch Grills Lawyer On Affirmative Action
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- On Monday, Justice Neil Gorsuch questioned lawyers on affirmative action in the oral arguments for Students for Fair Admissions Inc. v. President & Fellows of Harvard College.
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A college app should exclude any reference to name, race and gender. All applications should be assigned a number and admission decisions made totally blind.
I wonder what the student body would be like?
@@sandrakadi5326 The best.
That would likely prevent diversity. These people don’t just want some representation, which you would get without looking at name, race and gender. They want quotas! They want that class to look just like macro America.
The way they were doing it was very similar to what Harvard’s President Lowell did in the 1920s. At that time, when all the applications came in, they threw out as many from Jews as needed in order to create a group of applicants that lacked Jews to the extent that they would not be admitted in offensive numbers. (As I recall, suspected applications were marked with a little drawing of a bagel, to keep track of them until the entire pool was culled of Jews, at which point enough from the subset were eliminated.)
That’s exactly what they’re doing 100 years later, using a tool, the ‘personal score’, to right away, before the applications are gone through on any other level, greatly favoring Asians, throw out enough Asian applications so that they know, when they get to non-demographic assessment, Asians will not frustrate diversity by being present in numbers that would do just that.
Concomitantly, the evidence shows blacks doing extraordinarily well, much much better than Asians, on the ‘personal score’. Here again, the idea is to not look at any other metrics until the pool of applicants has been reconfigured, such that when you do look finally at all the other metrics, diversity already has been accomplished. Effectively, they’re rigging the applicant pool, in order to make it look, if you squint, as if they’re getting what they want and not paying any attention to demographics. (Ordinary folks just call it banal and pathological.)
At one point the attorney states that all the applications are reviewed by like 40 people, and that none of them are considering demographics. That’s true. But it’s also the case that the deck has been stacked by then, so that the cards come out right, and they don’t have to! 😂
@@sandrakadi5326 it would probably break down as follows: 60+% Asian (American), 35% Caucasian, 5% comprised of multiple ethnicities
@@sandrakadi5326 Full of people that got there on Merit? Gee.....wouldn't that be something! So............like...........Smart people instead of Dark skinned people chosen because they are dark skinned and have an average I.Q. of say.........78?
Discrimination is wrong in any form no matter the perceived noble goal.
In South Africa affirmative action is coded into law...now remember unlike the USA the minority are white and around only 6% of the population and this remains a very stringently applied mechanism to purge white people entirely...go figure reverse apartheid
It’s a fight for perception… that’s the key has always been will always be.
BUT IT HAPPENS ON ALL FRONTS EVERY DAY..... I'M AGE DISCRIMINATED
Should we discriminate against kids by prohibiting them from drinking at 6?
This is patently false. It's entirely dependent on the merits of the argument behind the discrimination. You need a drivers license to operate a motor vehicle on public roads. Discrimination of those that don't have licenses is acceptable in that regard because of safety concerns. Also in this specific situation academic merit based discrimination also occurs and is accepted. The problem is that there seems to be very little merit behind the arguments in support of race based discrimination for college admissions.
It is about time the Supreme Court is hearing cases like this
They've heard these cases before, but have always upheld Affirmative Action. Hopefully, they'll decide differently this time.
Right my problem is when it comes to the left the courts are on it in days but when it comes to the right it takes years to be addressed years
What is your issue with Affirmative Action? Why do you dislike it?
Asian Americans are being discriminated against because of their race because of these policies.
@@OLDirty_Kungfu Because it's Racism..... Let everyone compete equally.
Dumbing down our best in the name of diversity will harm us all. Blocking amazing Asian talent is wrong
Blocking any race that's talented is wrong
th-cam.com/video/c9r8JmjK22Y/w-d-xo.html
There are literally billions. They will be just fine. I’m in Austin and not sure the last time I haven’t seen an Asian mixed w their culture including a Chinatown. So shutuppppp with your blocking Asians. Plus you’re just throwing in allllll Asians. So shutuppppp. Y’all are the supreme race. Figure it out. Quit whining because you see others complaining. You’re not part of a problem into you insert moot opinions and waste this homelands time. Not racist. If so than I guess every country is racist but ya and shame and everyone but American men and women. And it’s not our fault that you’ll build on top of each other and create all the pollution Shutupppppppppp. Not many Asian cultures respect us. Watch any movie from any Asian country we’re dead. So just shut up. You’ve got it more made in the shade with more lemonade than anyone who’s white in college. Call me every name in the book but I bet you can’t fact check me and say they weren’t right. One of these days when y’all finally succeeded having open borders you’ll see that your life is so worthless and pointless and can be stolen from you in an instant. Keep things the way they are stop your whining quit your Bitchin this isn’t even worth their time.
Agreed. This shouldn't even be an option. I understand the concept of wanting to reflect diversity, but it's punishing the more qualified person for something they cannot control and rewarding the other for what they didn't earn. It's like a coach presenting the MVP award to the swimmer he thought was a wonderful person (Most Valuable Person?) instead of the swimmer who broke 2 pool records that season-Most Valuable Player was not designed to factor in personality traits-who scored the most points, it's that simple...nobody would want to compete in a sport if the top performing athlete isn't recognized and rewarded for their talent and hard work-not their personality. This actually happened to me- it was a humiliating and heartbreaking experience because not only was I not acknowledged by the coach for my achievements at the ceremony, it was also a cruel affront and misjudgment of my character which honestly I can't say to this day which hurt me the most. The other teams at the athletic banquet gasped and neither clapped for nor congratulated my teammate when I didn't get called up to receive the award. Everyone knew that I broke 2 swimming records, our team was even recognized by the local newspaper and the athletic director personally thanked me for improving the team's and the university's overall athletic program's reputation. I know it's not quite the same thing, but to earn something through hard work only to have it unfairly given to someone else is a painful and potentially traumatic experience.
...in the deepest way.
It seems like Harvard is arguing that they are not actually practicing any form of "affirmative action." It's like they are arguing that they should be allowed to do something that they claim they are not actually doing.
Thomas Sowell, exposed the fact this is all stupidity.
Thomas Sowell is a American Treasure and fountain of Truth.
@@user-qy9tf2im7f Read every book he wrote that you can get your hands on.
Why isn't Thomas Sowell testifing in this case?
They dont accept changes. Racism is existed! Why in hell application to college need to put race to it!!
@@phuongtle9179 If you haven't noticed, the left /Democrat manipulator traitors to America, accuse the right of the offenses they are the ones actually guilty of. It's done to pretend they are not racist but are actually the worst all through history. It's also done to degrade the higher standards of education dumbing down the citizens. Look at who they appoint to positions .... dumb, unqualified as those behind the scenes who manipulate them have a easier time getting away with subversion. Over decades with intent it's creepy forward and expanded incrementally in hope you have short term memory and don't connect the dots and notice what they are up to. Asians. tend to study more. harder and get the best grades but they are not easily manipulated so it's about manipulating blacks.
I'm 75 and went through the Civil Rights Movement during my college years. Affirmative Action then meant soliciting applicants from all strata as equally as possible. Once the applications were in, they were expected to be judged on individual merit. Apparently it now means favoring members of one group.
How long did it mean that?
I didn't look up the federal laws, but I think they've been around for a long time.
Three groups. Blacks, latinos, native Americans
If I am not mistaken, affirmative action was introduced by Nixon in 1973 at the tail end of the civil rights movement of the 1960s. It is a prime example of democrats pushing a radical agenda only to have republicans consolidate it. Affirmative action was always a policy in search of a justification more than a solution to any particular problem and didn't make any more logical sense then than it does now. Its intent, which was originally as reparations for past discrimination against blacks, has undergone many transformations over the decades until it reached its current form which says that a well qualified student not sitting in a mathematics class next to someone less qualified but racially different from him is being unjustly deprived of a full education.
As Justice Thomas pointed out about as well as possible, the word "diversity" is meaningless drivel.
I too when that meant reaching out to otherwise qualified people who might not have the background to make it likely they would apply. Now it’s just racist discrimination.
It always meant that though, didn't it? If you're recruiting as heavily as possible from one group, and not recruiting from another, aren't you favoring the first group? Affirmative action has never not been racial discrimination.
Imagine that, "DiVeRsItY" getting all tangled up in itself.
Race is the least of all things that should determine admission.
Stop complaining White boy and accept your forced g3n0cIde.
@Gaye Lorde Wrong. People should be judged by their merit and character and not by their skin color.
Level the early and intermediate educational playing fields then let the cards fall where they may.
@Gaye Lorde it’s called the equal protection clause numbnuts, probably the most important and litigated aspect of the constitution
@Gaye Lorde ok if you believe that...then the colleges should be able to pick whoever they want and as many as they want...no matter what race or how dumb or smart a person is.. That may be the solution! 👍 Then no one can complain.
Students admitted to schools that are beyond their academic capabilities, because they're admitted by affirmative action, end up performing poorly and have trouble graduating and flunk out in higher proportions. Or they could go to a school where they can keep up academically graduate and go on to have a successful career and life.
Yep.
NYC is a perfect test case/sample size for the evaluation of K -12 education.
Why?
1.1 million students,
with equal funding per school, and equally spread teacher talent, and equal access to programs for advanced or struggling students.
Result:
18% of Whites perform at advanced in math per the Chancellor's office
vs
under 1% of American Blacks.
Foreign born Blacks perform at par with Whites.
So racism, aka Affirmative Action, isn't a fix.
Funding, racism, or Xism isn't the issue.
So, what is?
A decades long attack on the Black family since LBJ's "War on Poverty"
Today, 70% of Black women marry the government, rather than a man.
Solution step one to saving the Black family?
Vote out Dems
@@MarcPagan why vote out dems? you think a party of white men is more likely to help minorities than a party with minorities? Congratulations on at least recognizing that american black communities were screwed and still are. Underfunding the predominantly black schools is still a thing. They likely aren't encouraged in math to begin with, nevermind expecting advanced performance.
Anyway, it's a messed up system but AA isn't disadvantaging other races as the evidence shows. People simply feel it is and some especially entitled people think the only reason they wouldn't be accepted is race. One of the previous cases was a woman who didn't like not getting accepted even though only 1 black person with worse grades than her got in with a few hundred with better grades not getting in (including black students). She just felt that some colored person must have taken her place.
@@semitope
Spare me the race hustling
I'm a tri-racial Puerto Rican Jew.
And, did u read NYC's results?
All races in NYC's 1.1 million school district are equally funded...yet Blacks, American Blacks specifically due to an 70% rate of bastardy, tank test scores for the entire system.
Caribbean and African Black immigrants?
Two big thumbs up...families = success.
As a Puerto Rican,
I'm sorry to so that if NYC had no Hispanics or Blacks, shootings and rapes would drop 90%+ per the NYPD
...the most diverse PD on Earth is "cooking the books"?! Of course not.
They don't care if they fail out as long as they got a government loan.
@@MustPassTruck that they may not have to pay back anyway 😳
Once a university accepts $1 of taxpayer supplied funding, they should be held to a higher standard, which IMO includes not discriminating against applicants based on their race.
Affirmative Action is just that, racial discrimination.
My kids are half Asian and half Caucasian, and even though they're in the top 2% of their class, they'll likely be considered far less than kids that academically qualify lower, just because my kids are a race that don't meet "woke qualifications".
Agree this whole suit is all about Asians being discriminated against in Harvard and North Carolina.
There's one school in the country my understanding the only school that does not accept any federal aid of any kind including student loans that's Hillsdale College in Michigan. They do that so the government can't tell them how to run their school in any way including admitting students. They are an Excellent small liberal arts college and have a diverse student body not based on race but are admitted based on their academic qualifications.
So, that's not how affirmative action works Rob.
Affirmative action is defined as a set of procedures designed to; eliminate unlawful discrimination among applicants, remedy the results of such prior discrimination, and prevent such discrimination in the future.
There is no mention of a particular race. It also does not exclude merit. It looks at an institution and says "You have no diversity. We know that people of other racial backgrounds have applied, so you must be being discriminatory."
Btw, Harvard class of 2021 had a student body that was 50.9% minority and 49.1% YT. Of that 50.9%, 22.2% were Asian. If your children were to apply and matched 1-to-1 with a black and a Hispanic student, they would most likely choose the Hispanic student since they only had a 11.6% representation. However, if your children identified as YT, they would have been considered because diversity would not have been a valuable factor for the institution in that school year.
Harvard is a private college, they don't get taxpayer money.
Your racism is showing, because it seems you believe that affirmative action only qorks for black people. Which is ironic since the case against AA is grounded on Civil Rights, which AA is a part of. But I digress.
If you are suggesting that no people of color are equal to your children, you need to evaluate your self. Are there times when diversity trumps exceptional merit, maybe. Then you challenge the institutions use of AA, not AA, because that means they more than likely passed on people of color who were of exceptional merit and had to do "diversity hires" to avoid consequences.
Btw, if you want to use AA, your kids can apply to prestigious HBCU's and qualify for diversity consideration, if you want to be that shallow.
these days asian on paper is viewed as white to the woke brigade. Your kid might as well be white lol.
@@OLDirty_Kungfu . ". Harvard is a private -college- University they don't get taxpayer money."
Harbor accepts all kinds of federal government money. Harvard students get federally funded student loans. Example Perkins loan.
Harvard gets research grant money for individual professors Grant projects for organizations or departments or divisions. Collectively amounting into the billions I am sure.
ONE example 2020 Harvard will see receive $8.7 million in federal funding for Coronavirus Relief.
Yes Harvard has a humongous[ technical economic investment terminology] $40 billion dollars endowment. According to what I got out of some of this testimony it is enough for Harvard to use the money from the dividends interest it gets off this endowment to pay for all of it's operational expenses including giving loans to students if it chose to. Also Harvard could have alumni Associations set up and administer private student loan fund if it chose to. Plus now, NIL for student athletes; yes Harvard Harvard student athletes, participate in this and yes this is non-governmental.
Conclusion - you're talking through your hat=BS`ing on much of what you say here.
The ONE college, far as I understand the only College, who does not accept any federal money of any kind including student loan money is Hillside College in Michigan.
What Harvard North Carolina ARE doing discriminating against Asian applicants to their universities. That's what the suit is about and that's who the suit was filed in behalf of.
I know more about Asians academic lives from my personal experience as their boyfriends and their employer as far back as probably decades before you were born.
Look up some facts before you pontificate like you know what you're talking about.
@@brucehutch5419 thank you for that in depth breakdown! I think it's of note to mention that only 3% of Harvard's students use federal student loans, which is hardly significant enough to mention and it has to provide for 2/3 of its operating costs at a minimum, and is a not-for-profit university. I was speaking simply because the general understanding of taxpayer money into Universities comes from people's understanding of public Universities. I'm aware that the school gets federal funding through research, but I was speaking simply. I'll concede that.
What I think is important is that, I did not say that Harvard was not being discriminatory, I said that if Harvard was being discriminatory its through its use(or abuse) of Affirmative Action, and not the nature of Affirmative Acrion itself. The issue is whether Harvard is being unjustifiably or justifiably discriminatory. Would you not consider that a stronger case toward discrimination could be made by blacks and Hispanics who have less representation at Harvard but are a larger portion of the U.S. population than the Asian community? If the goal is diversity, and nearly half of Harvard's "diverse" student body (22.2% in the class of 2021) is Asian, to say that the Asian attendance rate should be about 44% ( the estimated amount if all qualifying Asians student were admitted) and 49.1% of the student body is Caucasian, then where do the other 3 minority groups fit in? That last 7%?
The truth is, Harvard is not the only option for any field of study, or the only ivy league university. Harvard University is one of many prestigious private institutions, and not being accepted does not bar one from applying to another. At any rate, Harvard is not on trial so much as Affirmative Action is, and Affirmative Action has more function than in the selection process of schools and universities.
You made a great point, but you did not address Affirmative Action, which is a civil rights law that is supposed to prevent injustifiable discrimination. That is the case, that is why UNC is on the chopping block as well, since both had been discriminatory toward black people in the past. AA made it so not just black people, but all minorities could apply to jobs and schools without race, gender, religion or sexuality being an outright disqualifying factor.
If you really are equal, you don't need special treatment to compete..
Exactly. They are admitting they’re inferior by asking for special consideration.
Good point, if it was the late 1800's it might be different consideration, but even then affirmative action should have been temporary.
You do know that Affirmative Action benefits more white women than any other race?
@@miochan6414 Pure baloney. AA was specifically created to benefit people of color.
Nor intentional obstacles either muchless illegal search n property forfeiture nor false gender identity hypocrisy Grasias poto
I still remember applying to the University of Michigan (my Alma Mater) and my jaw literally dropped when I saw how my high ACT score counted for exactly the same amount of points as simply checking the box for "black".
Just strip both Institutions of all Government Grants and funding, and prohibit any Student attending from using the Govt Guaranteed Student Loan program.
I am reminded about the interview conducted by Mike Wallace (60 Minutes) and Morgan Freeman about racism in America and why it is important to have Black History Month. Freeman rejected the notion that Black History month is helpful to black Americans. And he further told Mike Wallace that one of the reasons racism persists in America is that people talk too much about it!!
That's cuz Morgan's like MJ
Morgan Freemon dont even believe in God and he dont speak for African Americans. Black History should be thought everyday. We must not let our children forget the accomplishments of our ancestors, nor should we let them forget the atrocity of white America.
@@miochan6414 I would say early America
@@miochan6414 I see no objective evidence of Mr. Freeman being an atheist. While no single black American speaks for all black Americans, Freeman's admonition to the race baiters like Mike Wallace is sound.
But that's dumb. You can't say racism will simply go away by people not talking about it because 1. people have freedom of speech and 2. you can tell race exists by simply using your eyes. The effective way to cut out racism is to accept people walks in life and realize that despite our differences, we are equal
I still love the quotes by J. Roberts that we ‘Did Not Fight The Civil War About Oboe Players ... We did fight a civil war to eliminate racial discrimination. And that’s why it’s a matter of considerable concern. I think it’s important for you to establish whether or not granting a credit based solely on skin color is based on a stereotype when you say this brings diversity of viewpoint.” Now, that said, as a former oboe player AND having been in the Army, maybe it is time that we fight a war over oboe players ...
I love this new Supreme Court, it's exactly how the Supreme Court should operate. The late justice Scalia would be very proud.
A bunch of racists and politicians for hire
How many Constitutional amendments are there? So, when was the Constitution considered "exactly" how it should operate? Give and take was the hallmark of the origins of what we call American democracy. Reality is not finite, nor is the US Constitution. It is not. It is a "living document subject to alteration. 27 times now in the last 200 years.
Maybe the College should assign a number to each admission applicant, they can judge the person on his performance in school and the community. That way not by race.
There are some who would call that racist. One symphony orchestra had an opening for a cello, several years (decade or more?) back. The jury sat in the seats, and each applicant played behind a sheet, so they could not be seen. They were loudly condemned as being racist--simply because it was a totally blind audition.
It’s fine for them to call it racist, but how did they qualify their assertion?
@@zacharyishikawa2459, because the auditions were based strictly on what the jury heard; no pigmentation was a factor; and *that* is what makes it "RAY-cist" (tm). SMH.
The Harvard lawyer’s argument is like having a water treading contest and one person wears a life preserver while the other person is weighed down with a brick attached to each foot. The third person just treads.
Yes it is sad that black people grow up with metaphorical bricks tied to each foot and the second the government tries to compensate for that historic and systemic disadvantage, suddenly white america screams “not fair”
I feel like the Supreme Court is the last place where people have sane conversations in our country.
I'm surprised too how politically incorrect the justices speak.
You're right, and Gutfield show, hah, half joking
The Supreme Court only place that can have a sane conversation. You mean the Supreme Court where one of the Justices cannot Define a woman !?¿?
@@pe4153 Thanks God! They are brave.
It’s about time. This has been going on since Bakke. I was in high school then. I’m retired.
My kids are half Filipino. Their Filipino grandparents American nationals then, later citizens) started as plantation workers earning 10 cents an hour ($1.67 today) cutting sugar cane, and their white grandparents lived on a small farm in rural Oklahoma with no indoor heat or plumbing during the Great Depression.
Both sets of grandparents loved the US and made good lives for themselves here. No help from anybody.
The Philippines was under Mexican rule and under Spanish rule longer than Mexico was. But they’re Asians so more privileged than my best friend, a black attorney whose mother was a college professor and whose father was a prominent physician in their city.
I told my kids to put white on their college applications, not Asian. Our last name isn’t Spanish because we’re Spanish. It’s because the Filipinos were colonized by Spain for 300 years. It’s so ridiculous.
Boat people fleeing Vietnam brought nothing here but they’re privileged. I was getting rid of a bunch of old bar exam materials at a garage sale many years ago. A Vietnamese man told me he was a lawyer in Vietnam. He lost everything, including his records. He was starting over from scratch, working as a yard man.
Poor kids in the inner city don’t benefit from affirmative action. They go to lousy schools and get no guidance. The people who do generally come from comfortable middle or upper middle class backgrounds. I went to graduate school with some of them. They were average for the most part and some took the place of someone more qualified in everything but race.
Everyone from the Romans to the British to Native Americans, ruled over some other group or tribe at some period or another. Mine were the Vikings. My husband’s were the Spanish and then the Americans.
All this has caused us generational resentment and/or entitlement. If any reparations are deserved it should have been to families whose lives were destroyed by a welfare state. Fathers were driven from the home. The people caught in that system live in dangerous cities run by corrupt leadership. Now even the criminal justice system won’t set any boundaries in those communities. What a tragic waste of a culture.
AMEN!!
Wholehearted agree with you. My family flee VN with a few set of clothings, wasn’t able to speak any English. My siblings and I study hard and put ourselves thru college. It’s a sad reality when I have to tell my kids that if you put Asian and with our last name, they will be discriminated against.
ditto 50 years
I have a feeling affirmative action will be retiring.
I heard 61000 applicants for 1600 slots for admission..it's an almost impossible task to sort through this mountain of applicants. Assuming student athletes, alumni children and marginally qualified applicants are excluded you are still left with thousands upon thousands of the super qualified. What criteria will then distinguish one from another? No need for that. For this group, in order not to consider anything but grades and test scores create a software program that selects 1600 SAT scores and 4.0+ applicants into a lottery and let the computer pick them. Now that would be blind admissions.
there would be thousands with similar scores still. The colleges aren't looking for robots, they want to pick the admissions based on positive factors for their school community as well as grades
@@semitope Please list all acceptable positive admission factors to be considered notwithstanding similar strong credentials, i.e. GPA and test scores, in your humble opinion.
Harvard: 1920’s there were too many Jews
Also Harvard: 2000’s there are too many Asians
And Whites. We're not supposed to give a damn about white kids though.
That's pretty much it.
In No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal: Race and Class in Elite College Admission and Campus Life, published in 2009, Princeton professor Thomas Espenshade and coauthor Alexandra Radford demonstrate that, controlling for other variables, Asian students applying to highly selective private colleges face odds against their admission three times as high as whites, six times as high as Hispanics, and sixteen times as high as blacks. To put it another way: Asians need SAT scores 140 points higher than whites, 270 points higher than Hispanics, and an incredible 450 points higher than blacks (out of 1,600 points) to get into these schools. An Asian applicant with an SAT score of 1,500, that is, has the same chance of being accepted as a white student with a 1,360, a Latino with a 1,230, or an African-American with a 1,050. Among candidates in the highest (1,400-1,600) SAT range, 77 percent of blacks, 48 percent of Hispanics, 40 percent of whites, and only 30 percent of Asians are admitted.
It is true that Asians typically need higher test scores, but the statistics you quote are outdated. Black student SAT scores are rising and so is competition among Black students. We need to stop letting people think that all you need to get into Harvard is to be Black with a 1050 SAT. There's no reason Black students can't perform better on the SAT. People who say they need affirmative action to counteract bad test scores are assuming they are incapable of getting better scores because of their race. This is absurd. Black students just need to study harder, and many of them are. Affirmative action has done its job and now it's time to end it.
@@jjohnson2675 100%
Equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome
The power structure knows who it wants, and is perceived to be controllable. BLM ring a bell?
Those statistics don't have anything to do with a White politicians son having a 100% chance to get into Harvard Law school while a white welders son from Shreveport had nearly no chance at all. Remember all these race quota stats pertain to admission slots that are available after the legacy kids get in. Another question that needs to be asked is are there any Universities that are getting kickbacks from any foreign governments for student admissions. Anyone who thinks a level playing field is on the horizon is kidding themselves.
When will people acknowledge that the answer to fight discrimination… is not more discrimination
Admission to these universities should be merit based only. Race should have nothing to do with it. If you want to go. Get good grades
Years ago (1980s) I worked at a firm that hired a Harvard grad that happened to be a minority. Unfortunately he was an idiot. He must have been pushed along from grammar school because of his skin tone. He was let go. The firm had many other minorities employed. I actually made a complaint to our chief counsel and company president about one southern belle who had me on the carpet for hiring a very competent minority. The minority stayed on for years and the southern belle was gone in two weeks. The southern belle was stupid too as she jotted notes on applicants' forms. One of the notes was "too old".
Yup I’ve met a stupid Harvard grad who obviously was a diversity acceptance.
Take offense if you like, but not directed at you personally, most lawyers are idiots. They are good at rules, and research, but very poor at debating full truth.
I have met scores of idiots from Harvard. I don’t think race was the issue here.
@@IntellectuallySuperior2U
It is collaborated by over 50 years of experience on this earth dealing with educated idiots with a law degree. You do realize there is no educational requirements to take the BAR exam.
@@stevenbear1610 that's why you want good ones
'Moreover, when and where there is economic inequality encompasses virtually the entire world and virtually the entire history of the human race. A temporary program (affirmative action) to eliminate a centuries-old condition is almost a contradiction in terms. Equality of opportunity might be achieved within some feasible span of time, but that is wholly different from eliminating inequalities of results.' Thomas Sowell
If Harvard truly wanted a diverse student body, then they would throw out all admission standards and select people at random.
Is Skip Bayless addressing the Supreme Court?
shame on you Harvard and what a terrible lawyer
Diversity is not our strength. Strength is our strength.
Talent is strength. Period. Race is irrelevant.
@@franciscody9622 as is sex.
Quality matter.
How many times must we rule discrimination unconstitutional. Is this really difficult to understand?
Affirmative action is the application of equal opportunity. Certain groups ride the coattails of legacy status and access to resources that are not available to everyone. If we won’t allow historically underrepresented identities to count for one point in admission then let’s make it truly blind so that the factors like private school K-12 education and sportsmanship can’t buy a seat either.
She come after me not before me .🕊️
Why should a skin color be given favor instead of aptitude. If someone doesn't have the grades, S.A.T scores etc. Shouldn't be advanced because of your skin tone. If that's the precedence we want to set. Then men can be women and women can be men. I guess a white man can be trans race and go to Yale on affirmative action.
The longer it takes to make a point, the less impact it has on the listener. This lawyer is awful.
The difference being used in the biased and unethical admission process to deny Asian entry is that “Personal” ratings are opinionated and cannot be properly measured; whereas, Academics are numerical and are directly, accurately, equally, and properly measured.
lower court didn't find this to be the case. research doesn't. the data doesn't show it. You're simply claiming it with no evidence to support the claim.
Asains make up 22% of Harvard's graduates in 2021. Yet they are only 6% of the American population. Asains think that they all should get into Harvard based off their academic achievement. If that should be the case than the only people it would affect and hurt is white students getting into Harvard.
Every human being is born diverse.
End of story.
Even an identical twin?
@@zachgates7491 only in looks
Why do they need to know what race the student is, can't we just look at the application with no race involved. Wouldn't that work. Just like a mortgage application, you have to divulge your race.....why?
If you go to college as a blk they get extra money from the state and government
The fact that they could corrupt the system by discriminating in the 1920's
The question begs what stops it from happening again.
If they don't want you there, then why would you want to go there ?
Because its an elite university that earns you more money after graduation?
Students want to go there because Harvard is one of the most excellent schools in the country and the world. You get high-end learning and once you get out you have The Prestige of the school that gets you jobs beyond your own academic excellence. The same reason why an excellent athlete goes to the top performing football and basketball & schools excellent in other sports.
@@falseprophet1024
We have discrimination laws.
We don't need inclusion laws
Affirmative Discrimination.
"No evidence of discrimination.." against Asians. That's an interesting finding or conclusion mentioned at the end of the video. Since Asian applicants are not accepted anywhere near their academic testing scores, that seems to just mean that everyone agreed the excess Asians were substantially worse than lower scoring non-Asian students in terms of personality and other 'soft' skills. So to me this just means they've redefined discrimination so you can discriminate and call it fair play. "We can only take so many nerds!" should be the banner over Harvard.
Not an oxymoron though 🤩🤣
According to Harvard's valid and fair personality interview Asian Americans have the lowest score ong ALL other groups. One of the personality traits scored by this interview is integrity (honesty). Asian Americans scored so low that it negated their substantial advantage in test scores. IAW many Asian Americans are smart enough for Harvard but not honest enough to be accepted by Harvard. So why should a company hire Asian Americans? Maybe that is why many of them are involved with the crypto coin industry!
@@fee1776 THAT would be (is?) hilarious! Force Harvard to say "Well... okay... Asians are just huge liars, so we don't take many of them. See!? We're not racist!"
The simple answer for Harvard to avoid this issue is to be honest and say we are not a college with the brightest people. We prefer to have a bunch of dumb ass athletes, legacies and AA admits because we want diversity and value that more than people who are super bright academics. If they say that out loud, Asians will no longer apply to Harvard.
Although I never had a ice cubes chance in hell of getting into Harvard or Yale… I am still a firm believer and merit based only admission.
Let the chips fall where they may but at the end of the day I’ll have the best doctor the best lawyer that those places can produce not substandard given a leg up helped out carried along spoiled assholes who aren’t qualified to be there.
You're absolutely right, because those idiots could end up becoming your doctor, financial advisor etc....
I didnt get into Harvard because of my peg leg, pirate clothing and parrot on my shoulder. Plus I only like to speak in riddles and I anagram people's names whenever possible. I feel I would have truly given the students there an appreciation for different cultures. Where's the love Harvard? Pirates used to be hung and disemboweled. Lots of people wouldn't invite us to dinner or even sing a sea shanty with us. Yar yar. I want my free money for the suffering of my ancestors. I'm out of beer money, so cough something up you guilt mongering lefty landlubbers. And use some idiots tax money too. That be pirate justice.
Well said!
@@dumbstudent7673 I get your point, but why do you Caucasian keep comparing yourselves to African Americans. When this whole Affirmative Action lawsuit was filed by Asian's. In making your point about the disparity between the wealth gap in America, why use a Middle class African American? You could have made your argument stronger if you had used a white Middle class student getting into an Ivy league or top tier college. There are more white legacy and wealthy Ivy league students being admitted based on those circumstances than middle class African Americans.
You all need to stop using African Americans as an excuse for your short comings by saying we got what we have or you didn't get what you think you deserve because of Affirmative Action. You failed or didn't get the job or college entrance because you didn't qualify or weren't good enough . I threw a rock you barked...
This is the logical outcome of the trophy for everyone generation.
Affirmative action cost me advancement in the Navy, as I was passed but not advanced four times in favor of underqualified and lower scoring personnel that I frequently had to help perform their jobs as they were jumped up in rank over me. It cost me advancement, pay, and opportunity and it cost the Navy an experienced and heavily-trained Sailor who'd had enough. If not for affirmative action, I'd have probably re-enlisted and served my country for twenty or more years in uniform.
I can’t believe you’re even allowed to ask someone’s race on an application!!! WTH???
He again popped up out of nowhere. I instantly fell asleep.
It’s so disgusting that they word the questions to make them sound like the good is bad and the bad is good so that normal people cannot figure out what the question is!!
WHAT DOES RACE HAVE TO DO WITH EDUCATION ??? This is so unnecessary and a waste of time....
When people are taking the places of more able candidates in universities just because of their skin color, it must be talked about. The dumbing down of American academia needs to stop.
College should take a look at all applications with the names and location and race reference removed and base all judgment on the academic achievement and judge all applicants equally. It's when rich colleges slice and dice applicants based on their political policies will automatically bias applicants based on color of their skin.
many years ago the university of Michigan gave Africa and Latino 20 points automatically for total 140 points. Solid A = 80 points, solid B = 60 points.
You can’t fix discrimination by instituting a new form of discrimination aimed at a new group.
They want equality then affirmative action needs to go! Make it equal for EVERYTHING
Originally, Affirmative Action was supposed to be merely a REMINDER to businesses that there are capable people of different races who are also able to do the jobs that the businesses were hiring people to do for the businesses. What certain activists had done was seek to treat the idea of Affirmative Action as an act of compulsion to quantify the percentage of people of different races in more than hiring activities, often at the expense of those who may be more qualified personnel.
I can describe the discussion in three word; "National Basketball Association".✌😂
Equity is inherently unjust. You can't produce equal outcomes without discrimination.
Judge a person not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
We stopped segregation a long time ago, even fought Biden who filibuster went for over 72 hours. We still won desegregation.
When you see how far we've come from the Civil Rights Movement, it's not plausible to go backwards and claim racism anymore, we also have integrated, so many shades of skin in biracial families, it's not possible to go back to black and white. No one was being discriminated against by race without consequences.
This divisiveness came back when we all voted for a Biracial President. Its undeniable Obama's racism issues are deeply rooted in his family. He hates his white mother, who has he shown her to.
Most people thank their mother's and Obama never liked her nor his own brother. But that is how non racist America is, biracial president and family in the Whitehouse, voted in by the people.
Obiden is same racist Elite bunch of delusional Sellouts, they just self enriched and did nothing but divide people by race and gender .
It's such HYPOCRISY ask anyone who was part of the Civil rights movement. Watch MLK . My god it's so obvious who the racists are, same party. LEFTISTS Commies and Marxists. God speed November 8th, just want the ridiculous drama and pandering, victim mentality to stop.
Lifes to short for all this ugliness, and hypocritical thinking under this horrific corrupt administration.
Obiden? Love it!
Merit based Admission only please!!
The interest on endowments would pay for tuitions in all ivy league schools for all students and they would still increase the endowment itself.
Blocking any talent is wrong Harvard
What is the difference between selecting the best to fill a vacancy and discriminating? Are talent and meeting quotas opposed?
Turning Harvard into a joke one unqualified admission at a time.
But a very expensive joke.
"The road to hell was paid with good intentions "No matter what way you cut it affirmative action is wrong especially in a society that claims to be equitable.
Whether you like the decision or not, listening to these cases is fascinating. Plus, I really think you have to give both sides credit. The lawyer and Gorsuch were very respectful towards each other and they both make good points. The arguments for affirmative action in this particular case were obviously not compelling enough to sway the conservative judges though.
“Asian Americans as a group” that phrasing is an issue in and of itself! Do college admissions consider chinese and Korean American students the exact same as Vietnamese, loatian, Thai, Hmong, and Cambodian students? Despite large disparities between those groups they are all identified as “Asian American.” Part of the problem when you have white northeastern liberal types making racial based judgments on entire groups of people when they themselves don’t seem knowledgeable enough to recognize disparities within an ethnic block
Affirmative action endangers lives.
Admissions should be made on academics,,,,not skin colour.
Black people can do anything they set their minds to if they're willing to work hard and make good decisions. They need culture change and nothing else.
what a longwinded lousy attorney.. never answers a question
I would be all in favor of banning legacy admissions, because who wants the children of affirmative action students to get a free pass into a university? They are the least deserving and least likely to graduate
Legacy admissions tend to be the rich white family type
Why can’t they say that Supreme Court justices, Vice Presidents, treasury secretaries and energy secretaries are chosen based on race and gender; so why can’t they?
My mother always said, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
Discrimination is also alot like addiction..it does not matter what your addiction is it is addiction..like wise is discrimination. If change the playing field different one way or the other you discriminate ..when it comes to education and higher education ..it should be earned not given
How is Arizona allowed to be a non judicial foreclosure State?
Why don't you end that!!
I wish I saw so many people with the same passion for equality in the public education forums and the health care forums and the forums discussing NFL coaching policies and affordable housing forums
What about AA and equality in NFL and NBA teams? Can you share some passion for that?
@@DavidLee-co6gp It's a tragedy that SCOTUS struck down one of the few attempts by the government to rectify systemic racism. Believing that people of color (POC) have the same opportunities to get into ivy league schools is preposterous. The same holds true for minority coaches in the NFL.
This is never going to end.I am afraid that reverse discrimination will never end.
Look around? Do you really think white people are going through reverse discriminated? You own everything and there is no job or promotions a white person in America can't get if he or she is qualified or not qualified. You think because 1 percent of African Americans gets into an Ivy league school or got a promotion on the job he only got it because of Affirmative Action.? Pray to Jesus to take that bitterness and racism out of your heart.
@@miochan6414 Wow. Didn't mean to upset anyone,but yes it should end. And the African American community' has bigger fish to fry than ole whitey here. I challenge you to go to your local bank and see who is lending the money. If that doesn't wake you up nothing will.
The United States deserves the best because we are in an ever increasing competitive world
Don’t give it to donors, legacies etc
This lawyer makes no sense.. One cannot fight racism with racism... .
Hypothetical shouldn't be discussed in scotus
Even back in 1920s they understood what the problem was
So if HARVARD had a system to discriminate against BLACKS would that be okay? What a lame lawyer.
I do think that there should be a holistic approach to admittance, not just based on grades, but definitely not based on race.
Discrimination is discrimination.
"Diverse", "diversity" is simply ASSUMED to be a benefit. How about these people, these institutions, first provide proof/evidence that "diversity" actually is beneficial. Diversity of thought or viewpoint is one thing, but simply assuming that racial or ethnic diversity is a good has no evidence. In fact, there is actual evidence that higher diversity in that form is actually harmful. More racially/ethnically, and culturally diverse areas are less cohesive, less peaceful, and more violent than low diversity communities. That is repeatedly shown in the studies. It is NEVER the case that social benefits come from higher ethnic or cultural diversity.
Harvard’s treatment of asian Americans is wong.
Harvard is grossly overrated. With their giant admission class and old glory, they can attract plenty of smart and motivated people. Many of those who become successful would even credit Harvard (in particular, Harvard's old glory and old network) as being helpful in getting them where they are. However, how many in the last decades will praise Harvard for its educational value?
The simple fact that they use race as a factor is the evidence of discrimination. Any practice that advantages or disadvantages people of a particular race is discriminatory by definition.
People don't seem to get that there's a difference between using race in admissions to discriminate and affirmative action.
Using race in admissions to discriminate is simply that. Nothing more to explain. Affirmative action increases the chance a minority applicant will be chosen **in an attempt to correct for the systematically prejudiced education system in the US**
In a perfect world where our education system up through highschool didn't discriminate against minorities in multitude of ways, then affirmative action and racial discrimination in applications would be the same, but we don't live in that world.
Harvart has so much money in the bank, they can give all students a free ride and still have money left.
Play Jeopardy Admissions game
Diversity of intellect not diversity of skin color!!
this is the best liar democrats can get to argue for affirmative garbage
Thank the lord for these conservative justices end racial discrimination. My white son is a 4.7 gpa genius that would never get into a top tier skill because he is too white.
The worst evil is committed in the naming of doing good.
Ok when did this start ???
Please dear lord don’t tell me they Supreme Court is now going to be broadcast
Affirmative action had its time. It’s outlived its purpose. Country is a very different makeup racially and with regards to opportunity than when this concept was conjured. Take responsibility for your own merits and actions.
Desperate for equality in the law and maths class. Not too much moaning about equality on the football and basketball teams and associated scholarships.
OMG. Thomas Crown Affair.
The CCP isn't stupid enough to have this argument.
It is without doubt that American-funded universities should preferentially admit American applicants.