The .30WCF will always be KING within it's own limits. When I need less, I go with the .44WCF. When more, I grab the 95' in .30 Army. I've never needed more because I get close, and then closer. It's just the way I hunt. But then again, I have a general distaste for scopes, plastic things, and modern society as a whole.
As a teenager, I really was unaware the 1894 Winchester wasn't the only lever gun available. Later, working at the gun shop, predecessors and other makers came through the door. But in SW Pa, the 30-30 was really the accepted firearm for brush hunting. So, even though I am not a hunter I found this episode to be more than a little interesting. And the results of that 190 grain bullet very surprising, eye-opening in fact. P.S. I LOVE the dog!
Not the PA machine gun from farther up in the mountains? Remington pumps? I'm nearby in Ohio County, and I doubt there are many deer I've shot that wouldn't have gone down equally well with the .30-30. Save for very few long shots, the rest were well within its abilities. I started in the 80s when everyone was trying something much different than the 94 and 336, but my love turned back to what got me started shooting, a Marlin 39A. Now all my faves are mostly levers of all sorts. Probably the .35 336 being the best all around for our area in my mind. But the .30-30, and 32WS do everything similarly.
Glad you mentioned the year 1949, as I have a 1948 in very good condition, that I purchased many years ago for history and sentimental reasons. Currently looking for a gunsmith to give it some TLC, also for safety reasons, before I take it out for the first time. Great channel and great content. Thank you
My first deer rifle was a Winchester 30-30 because of the legend. A short time later I learned of the range of the 150 gr 30-30 bullet. My next and favorite deer rifle is my Browning Abolt in 30-06. I still like the 150 gr bullet for Missouri deer. They tend to stop where they are when they meet one. OMG, that dog is beautiful.
30-06, what a cartridge! Only 11 years younger than the 30-30. I'm going to shoot some 150 and 180gr bullets through the coupons using my buddies 20" barreled 308. That will be interesting!
@@TargetSuite My first deer hunting trip with guys from work was me and the 30-30 and one with a Browning lever 308 and the other was a Remington bolt 7mm-08. We were in brush that you could not see more than 10 yards. No success that day. However, that Browning may still be on my list!
Afternoon George. Enjoyed the shooting. Wife and I got back from Cabo late Thursday night. Had a great time. Your video was the first I looked for. Handsome pup your son has.
190 gr? Cowabunga! Even the 170 gr let’s you know you’ve shot something. My first 94 was 30-30 and it consistently launched hot brass right down the back of my collar. I didn’t care for the gun. But my wife’s Marlin 336 was one sweet rifle! 30-30 is a pleasant round to shoot though and it’s history speaks for itself. Another good video George! I understood your sign language quite well, lol!
Fascinating test! “Conventional wisdom” is that massive and slower bullets are brush busters, but this shows clearly that any bullet can deflect. Once while shooting steep downhill at distance in the high country, Dad had a .270 bullet blow up when it clipped an antler tine, leaving a large but shallow and recoverable injury on the deer’s back (next shot anchored it, so we did examine closely). A 405 grain .45-70 bullet wouldn’t have blown up, but then he’d never be shooting that round at such distance.
Fascinating video George. Glad you managed to sort all the editing issues,what a fabulous old gun. Oh and cheers for the GSP bonus bit. I have had seven of those dogs. Three were the best hunting dogs a man could wish for, thanks paul.
Glad you got the tech problems figured out and your back. So far it seems the 30-30 is in the lead. I have never owned one. When I was younger my grandfather gave me a Savage model 99 in 300 Savage. That was my brush gun.
I have my grandfather's model 99 in 300 Savage. I took a nice doe with it when my Dad gave it to me and now it's retired as a family heirloom. Sweet rifle
Welcome back George, don't you just love it when you realize your equipment is more high tech then we are. LoL Had a problem with my cellphone. That buffalo bore bullet surprise me! Your son's dog is a talker for sure. Good looking pup.
I really loved it when my son said, at 41 years old, that he was starting to struggle with technology. For just a moment there I thought life really is fair😄
I wish the Winchester company would manufacture their old classic line of "Super-X 170 grain Silver-Tips" again. Those were the most accurate rounds my old Winchester 94 Canadian Centennial ever had shot. That rifle has past down from my grandfather to father and now to me. These day's I shoot either Winchester Soft Points or Federal Soft Points both in 170 grains of either brand in flat or round nose styles. Would like to try those Nosler Partitions if I could ever find any locally. Great Video!
@@TargetSuite yeah but it's the ballistic silvertips, not the older original Super X Winchester Brand of slivertips that they discontinued manufacturing around 2011/2012 I think??
Just following up . . . one of my viewers gave me a box of 30-30 150 grain silvertips . . . the original!. I did a little digging and they were originally made out of tin and then in 1960 Winchester began wrapping the lead nose in an aluminum cap.
20 years ago I stumbled upon a Revelation 30-30 in a pawn shop. The stock was in such bad shape that it needed replacement. I struck a really good deal with the owner and walked away with what turned out to be a really sweet shooting brush/truck gun. I replaced the wooden stock with a synthetic one, added a scope, which has since been replaced with a long eye relief scope mounted on a picatinny rail. This little gun has turned out be quite a sweet and accurate shooter. By the way, for those that don't know what a Revelation rifle really is, Western Auto way back when contracted with Marlin (and others) to market rifles and shotguns under their name. Mine was made by Marlin in1972 and shares a lot of parts with their 336.
Please feel free to correct me if need be, but I think Revaluation was possibly sold out of the Western Auto franchise back in the day. Sears Roebuck had a model, but the name brand for them I am not sure of,possibility J C Higgins. They may have been clones, but I think that they were all built by Marlin. If that truly is the case, you can't go wrong with any of them.
My theory is the rifling in the 94 Winchester has one in 12 twist was is not ideal with 190 grain bullet, although it will stabilize it it will stabilize the 150 grain bullet better, so when the longer Bullet encounters anything it tends to start tripping a lot easier
I suspect you are right. In hindsight the 190 grain bullet sounded like a great idea but it's trying to take the 30-30 somewhere it wasn't designed to go.
I was too. I think it was just the large chunk of exposed to lead couldn't stand up to the coupon. But I suspect on an animal it would be very effective
My younger brother has a 1951 94 Model Carbine in very good condition and my older brother has a 1922 94 Model with the long barrel and shortened magazine tube per hunting law back when. Both in 30-30 and both completely wonderful to shoot.
@@TargetSuite If you lived nearby you could use mine but believe me the 38-55 can be a challenge with different bore sizes, powders, and long or short brass. I encourage you to obtain one since to me they are challenging but satisfying once you get everything worked out. Keep on making your videos, the wife and I enjoy the knowledge you provide.
How do you think the rifling twist rate might have affected the stability of the BB 190’s? If they’re unstable before they hit the coupon, it’s gonna get a whole lot worse. My dog Roscoe is half Ger. Shorthair Pointer. Wonderful dogs!
Liked the dog, but loved the cat clock on the wall to your right. I have always wanted one of those and will buy the next one I see. Thanks for the video.
Thanks for your comment. My aunt had one of those Kit Kat clocks when I was a little kid back in the mid-50s. One day I just up and decided to get one of my own. I guess I got old enough I didn't care what people would think😄
This is awesome. Most of my family including myself still use .30-.30. I just wish that the Hornady 150 white tail were included because that’s what we all use with great success.
I agree with Dr. Froghopper that the 190 grain bullet may have only been marginally stabilized with the twist rate of the Model 94. That along with that wide soft nose must have caused the flipping when it struck the coupon. What a great video. The 150 grain seemed clearly superior, but like you said the number of shots fired was too small to definitively prove anything. But now the rest of us can do our own experimenting.
Your efforts make this grown man smile! Ruger touted their .44 carbine would shoot through a 7inch pine tree. I had dead 7in pine behind the house so quick experiment, .44 carbine,240gr hp,.444 240grsp, 3030 160gr lvrevol ,10yards,only 1 round blew through! Guess? The one I have most in common with we are both old and obsolete! The 3030!!!my 30as is especially partial to those fed 150gr. Fn thanks, rick of orange😀
That's really interesting! I'm net surprised the 44 mag hollow point didn't penetrate, but I sure would have bet on the 444 Marlin oce the 30 caliber LeverEvolution! Btw, is that the Orange that's east of Vidor?
I'm 54 Years old and been hunting with a Winchester 30/30 using a 150 bullet sence I was 12 years old . I have taken deer with one shot from 20 yards out to 125 yards from the fields to the swamps Best Gun and Round you can get for do it all killing of animals in the field .
Thanks for your comment! And testimonies like yours in the vast majority. So to the 30-30 naysayers I would just respond . . . "bunk". Of course the caveat is keeping ranges within the limitations of the 30 30 round
I think the 1:12 twist rate was barely stabilizing the 190 grain bullet. 1:10 might have worked better but 30-30 barrels are rifled to optimize lighter bullets. Just my opinion.
Very interesting! I need to dig up your video on the 35 Remington and see how it did compared to this one. The 35 Remington is really what I want in a 336A 24-in. Thank you 👍
I knew that was Federal ammo as soon as I saw it! The extra flat nose on the bullet said it all! I won't hold it against brother. These days we have to take what we can get!
1938 Model 1894 in .30-30, using 150gr, has rarely failed in Pennsylvania for white-tail. Forest, field, brush. As far as I know, all failures were operator error. Going into brush, it is what I first think of. Second is an 1892 in .44WCF. Short of operator error, neither have failed.
I know that conventional wisdom says that the 170 grain bullet is superior, but I've always been fond of the 150 grain myself. The 150 grain Speer jacketed bullet is very accurate in my Marlin Texan. The most accurate cast bullet was the 150 grain Loverein style bullet inspired by Harry Pope. I could fairly often get 1 inch groups at 100 yards with that. I've just acquired the 150 grain Lee and will be trying it soon. I already have the heavier Lee molds. George, you might be re-framing public opinion on what the best weight bullet is for 30-30.
The 170 gr bullet is far superior to 150 gr bullets now that I have shot several decent bucks with reloaded 160 gr ftx bullets and lever evolution powder . I believe this is the best thing that ever happened to the old 30 30! Chronographed velocity is very close to 300 savage velocities ! Which turned the old 30 30 into a different beast entirely!
Considering how 30-30 lever guns are pretty much entirely designed to stabilize 150-170 grain bullets, I really wonder what the thought process was behind them marketing that 190 grain.
I had a thought that nobody has put to the test when it comes to brush gun bullets: what deflects least: a short bullet or a long bullet? Is the short bullet going to restabilize fast while the long bullet tumbles uncontrollably? Or is the long bullet going to be super stable and pile drive through while the short bullet veers off to Albuquerque?
You've raised a good question. A lot of guys have asked about heavier bullets vs. Lighter bullets and the two are kind of intertwined because a longer bullet is going to, by definition, be heavier unless it's a totally different design. And then the test really wouldn't be Apples to Apples. I'll touch on this when I feature the 44 Magnum in this series. Stay tuned.
I had two German Short hairs, they were brothers. Great dogs, I sorely miss them. They were with me 13 years from the time they were 5 weeks old. Try the 30-30 with hard cast bullets... that should be interesting.
That's an interesting thought. I've tried hard cast bullets in the 35 Remington and a 32in or special. Just didn't have any 30 caliber ones to try for this video. I'll see if I can Rectify that in time for a future video. Thanks for your comment!
I know it’s from a year ago, but I’d love to see a video just on the gun. It looks like the best attempt an American gunmaker had at a Kipplauf style rifle.
How bout that 150gr 30-30?! So far it has easily outperformed the 35 Remington and 45 Colt, which are two of my favorites. Very surprising. Why, I wonder?
That's a good question Charles. I think I would need to shoot a few more groups with all three of those cartridges to be able to say the 3030 was better. But for this single data point it really did Shine, didn't it?
My first trip ever out west to Utah deer hunting carried a 94 30-30, missed a really nice buck because of unseen small tree top smaller than my little finger. A hard lesson was learned. I love the 30-30 round, not legal deer round here in Ohio.
@@TargetSuite I should have been more specific, only straight walled cartridge in Ohio from 357mag to.50, but I did recently get a Rossi 92 20" 357mag, love it, great shooter.
That rifle shows a preference for heavier bullets. I wonder what good the BB ammo is if it will not cycle through the Model 94 one of the most common 30/30 rifles out there. Anyway all the shooting just reinforces my opinion there really is no such thing as a brush buster. After bullet contact with any object it is all up to fate as to where a bullet will go and what will be happening when it arrives at the target. Pick your shots carefully in heavy cover and be prepared to follow up.
I'm guessing that old model 94 was an anomaly and that newer rifles can handle the Buffalo Bore ammo. But I don't know that for a fact. And yes we are on the same page about the brush busting myth. Thanks as always for your comment.
I could not agree more. Any bullet can deflect regardless of it's weight or caliber. Also, I too am not impressed with the Buffalo Bore's failure to cycle through the Winchester. I wonder how it performs in other rifles such as Henry or Marlin?
Good to see you back! You are not making my decision on my next lever action rifle any easier. But the 30-30 is looking like the best option for me. BTW have you heard any news on when Ruger will release their Marlin rifles?
I listened to the same interview referenced by Mikman 55 below and heard that the 1895 is going to come out in December with other models to follow in the new year sometime. But I also heard, and this was a surprise to me, that all of the new rifles will be hammer-forged and not have microgroove rifling.
@@TargetSuite I commented on that post as well with rugers barrels the 336, 1895, and 1894 probably will be very accurate and good shooters won't notice too much change. Where it becomes very disappointing is if they don't use it in the .22 caliber rifles marlin makes. The model 60, 795, and 39 (if they make it) should all use microgroove it seems to work the best with .22s anyways. I have a remington made model 795 and a model 60 made in the 60s both use the microgroove and shoot a lot better than any other semi auto .22 I've been around including rugers 10/22. I guess we can only hope for things.
The 150 grain Federal load tested here is actually a very good load. Usually plenty fast and accurate. The 170 grain Partition should be a real good load for game tougher and heavier than the average deer. I'm a bit confused though, since virtually any 170 grain .30-30 bullet tends to run out of velocity after impact before it runs out of bullet. My guess is that there is likely only a very small margin between any 170 grain .30-30 bullet on big game animals. The Buffalo bore 190 grain is apparently trying to duplicate and improve upon the old .303 Savage load. Maybe it did. That old classic cartridge took it's fair share of game too. Good video. Thanks for doing it.
I hate to hog the commenting this morning, but the Savage 99 in 303 Savage utilized a 1 in 10 inch twist for the 190 grain bullets it fired. Your Model 94 probably has a 1 in 12 inch twist rate, possibly meaning the 190 grainer is just too long for it. However my old formulas and charts are for spitzer shaped bullets. I imagine that flat points are a whole different ball game.
I'm disappointed you didn't test any Ticonnnnderoga's 😉 ...but seriously, do you think the 190gr x 2100fps Buffalo Bore just aren't getting enough spin from that barrel twist to retain stability under brush conditions?
That Buffalo Bore was very accurate but once that flat nose touched a twig she turned quick. I've always liked the Corelokts any 30 calibers. Federal 150s looked good. Thanks for comparison. 👍
Talk about a classic! How about that black cat clock on the wall in the beginning of the video. The pendulum tail and the eyes going back and forth! And the rifle is very nice as well, cracked stock, electrical tape and well worn bluing too.
Beautiful dog George. Well it seems the heavier, harder and slower make the best brush rounds. Not sure any ammo co. designs a round for brush?? I know there are some really amazing new shotgun "slugs" and barrels which might be better at 150 yds or less.
Heavier and with a very hard flat nose has proven the most resistant to deflection so far. But that was from videos I posted last year. I plan to test some more bullets like that in the weeks to come
Great presentation you have a scientific mind. I want to hit the mark and keep them clean and functioning. You take it to the next level for sure. Well done thanks for your time. PS. What's the maximum effective range of the 3030 with the most popular gr. Bullet say 150gr.
The term brush gun is a misnomer. These guns aren't intended to bust through barriers. They're intended to be short handy rifles that and easy to maneuver with and deliver plenty of energy at short range.
Beautiful rifle and a great round. A relative of my daughter In-laws along with other civilian's guarded the Hoover damn from Japanese fighter's during the second world war with their 30-30 rifle's. 30-30 kind of hit's that sweet spot. Ruger Rich
That's a great story about the Hoover Dam. Thanks for sharing. There is so much history with the Winchester model 94 30-30, from law enforcement to hunting game of all sizes. What a gun/cartridge combination!
IMO, the Nosler Partition bullet is not a great candidate brush busting. The jacket in the nose section of the Nosler Partition bullets is very thin to facilitate the rapid expansion that bullet is known for. From the partition rearward, that bullet is tough as nails, however. Thanks for a great video. I love my 1955 model 1894 Winchester that belonged to my dad and my grandfather before him. That rifle has efficiently put a pile of deer into the freezer over the years!
Thanks, I appreciate your comment. While no bullet design has yet to rise to the level of "brush buster" over all of my videos in the series you are probably right about the Nosler partition and why it performed poorly in this test. Thanks for watching!
@@TargetSuite I agree, true brush busting bullets? Yea...maybe not so much. I think the 1894 shines as it's so well balanced for comfortable carry all day and it handles well. You can get it on target quickly and get off tight range shots accurately and it actually lets you pick your shot and MISS the brush and hit the moving deer. Plenty of "knock down" power inside 100 yards. I don't think I killed many deer smashing through limbs and twigs. I know I was able to kill a number of deer on the run by picking an opening the deer would appear in and putting a bullet right though that gap the instant the deer's shoulder was going to be exposed there. Very much like bird shooting in a way!
I believe you are correct. It's really just about minimizing the risk. And that is best done by making sure you don't strike something on the way to your target.
My little 94 Winchester 30/30 with 16" barrel has killed 5 of the deer I've taken through the years. It likes to eat 130 grain bullets but it's accurate as heck even with the shorter barrel...picked it up for $200 from this girl who shot it once then put it in a safe cuz she claimed it kicked to hard...it was like brand new with original box it came in...I was like thank you lord.....
@@glennycarroll I really didn't notice the difference seem the same kick as my full length barrel but I was sure more then happy to take it off her hands...
Creating a new comment so you get the notification. A clarification of what I meant by long bullet vs short bullet. Heavier and lighter bullets in the same cartridge arent going to showcase the theory as well as say, a 140-160gr 6.5 bullet vs a 120gr 30 cal bullet. Thinking on it more, i guess you could showcase it with one caliber, if it was a 22 like the 223. Those 75gr bullets are much longer than those 55gr pills.
Thanks. I appreciate the new comment because it is hard to find replies to comments. You are right there is a difference. In the next episode I will be able to compare a longer bullet of the same weight as a shorter one and a heavier bullet of the same length as a lighter one. It will make sense when you watch the 44 Magnum video.
.444 surprised me too! I'm from the mother of texas,south of Fredericksburg, and north of richmond,east of culpeper.but not affiliated w/ liberal charlottesville!🙄 Appreciate the response, happy trails! Rick of orange
The 3030 is good round no doubt but I leave mine home in favor of the 45-70. I shoot 500 grn pointed home cast bullets out of a 1895 Marlin. Hand load one in chamber with one in tube. Never fails me in woods here in southern Ohio.
Like the 300 Savage, the 444 Marlin is at the top of my wish list. I just don't have one to shoot for this video series. Thanks for your comment and thanks for watching!
Your coupon sticks are too short. Real brush is more flexible than your short sticks. Engineers call this kL/r for columns. The “Length over radius ratio” describes the strength of a column. The k is a constant according to the material. In order to mimic real brush you should use longer sticks that bend more easily and maybe vary the size (thickness).
Good thoughts. Stick flexibility is something that someone else mentioned in one of the comments. And technically it is true that a flexible stick will have a different impact on bullet path than an inflexible stick. But the amount of time that a bullet spends in one of the sticks is so short that the flexibility component probably has an immeasurable effect on actual bullet deflection.
A 190gr @ 2100fps duplicates the .303 savage. Canadian old timers respected it as a moose round. If you read the writings of people like Kiramojo Bell, Emler Kieth and others who have both real world and technical knowledge of guns and ammo, a pattern emerges. For penetration on non steel/ceramic mediums such as bone, wood, dirt, concrete blocks, brush, flesh, etc, the answer is heavy for caliber, round nose bullets @2000-2400fps. Rounds below 2000fps lack kinetic energy. Rounds above 2400fps,including FMJ, tend to fragment, thus limiting penetration. In the 60's(?), American Rifleman mag did a test similar to yours using a baffle of replaceable wooden pegs. They found heavy for caliber, round nose bullets tracked best. 173gr FMJ 7mm mauser out performed 45-70. 12gauge slugs performed the poorest of any.
Great comment! Thanks! Heavy for caliber worked best last year in the videos that I made last year. And the 12 gauge slug the worst just like you said.
if bullets under 2000 fps lack sufficient energy, all the buffalo, bear, moose, elk, deer, hippo, big cats, and elephants that were hunted pre-1884 must have killed themselves then lol. Velocity=flat trajectory and enables lighter bullets of suitable construction to be used; but destruction of organ tissues=death. Don't get caught up in the muzzle KE and MV game mfg's have played for the last 120 years, there's a lot more to effective firearms than that (unless we're talking guns for rabbit and squirrel, animals that you can kill with a slingshot lol). Big numbers look good on a box/advertisement, and marginal "improvements" lead to big leaps in the numbers MFG's choose to advertise and emphasize. Advert's for ammo pre-smokeless days usually didn't include an MV or KE number, they stated that it was capable for x,y, and z critters... I wonder why lol. Nothing wrong with more, but it's not necessary.
@@wildrangeringreen Once smokeless powder made velocities over 2000fps feasible, professional big game hunters dropped the pre 1886 cartridges like they were hot potatoes. Kirimojo Bell killed elephants by the HUNDREDS using the 7mm mauser/173gr fmj and brain shots. The pre 1886 cartridges often caused failures to stop due to lack of penetration on the skull. They had more fp/energy but spread over a wider bullet diameter. All the modern elephant cartridges used by professional big three hunters fit in the long, heavy for caliber, 2000-2400fps range. 458win, .577nitro, .404jeffries, etc. Missing for Cape buffalo and elephants is the old .45/70. The professionals in Africa will NOT allow you to use it on elephants due to lack of penetration. The .45/70 with 500gr bullets will not make the 2000fps minimum in its pressure range.
@@mateoocampo3165 except... they didn't. Black powder loadings were still being popularly used well into the 20's, and weren't dropped until the 30's and 40's by mfg's... mostly because early smokeless (smokeless still) had issues with stability in humidity and heat (less so today, but it is still a concern). All of those cartridges/loadings for BP cartridges you mentioned didn't exist until 1890 (.500 Nitro, but even that didn't really take off until the 1910's ) or much later. Fun fact about hunting in most African Countries... PH's have little to no say in what you use, not if they want clients (isn't the free market fun). A few countries have actual laws on what you must use (most of which are comically excessive minimums that can't be attained by most DG cartridge loadings developed pre-1960), but most don't; and as such, many rifles in BP cartridges and ML's are still brought into Africa by hunters and used by locals in Africa every year lol. You can body-shoot elephant, it works just as well with them as any animal. Head-shooting large animals like Hippo and Elephant only really became a "thing" post 1900 (you know, when people were using surplused/stolen/bought 7x57 and .303 rifles to shoot elephants) The nitro express cartridges use the same bullets the BPE cartridges did (some loadings are slightly heavier, but are still right around the originals) lol. 2000fps is not a minimum for anything in reality. Despite what hunting shows try to sell you, Cape Buffalo are smaller and no more dangerous than Bison, on average, .50-70 and .45-70 wiped out the American Bison. Velocity flattens the trajectory and allows you to use lighter bullets- Nice if you want it, but you don't need it, like I said. I wouldn't feel the least bit bad about going after Elephant with .50-140-700 or the 577/500 (500gr bullet) BPE No2, loaded with BP. Those are lead bullets, by the way, and no... they don't turn into pancakes at BP velocities. I have considered building a 20 bore rifle to shoot a 900gr bullet with a 170gr charge (can use 20 gauge shot-shells)... that would be the bee's knees for elephant lol
@@wildrangeringreen Again, those cartridges come to their best penetration when they fit the criteria of long and heavy for caliber, fmj, and 2000-2400fps, REGARDLESS of the propellant. If compressed air could reach those criteria, compressed air would work. When you look at the CHOICE of those professional hunters, their calibers always fit the criteria of long and heavy for caliber, fmj, 2000-2400fps. Those PH's will use 12gauge slugs and buckshot on lion but NOT elephant. Thay do not use. 45/70 on elephant but will use a longer cased cartridge to push a similar bullet ABOVE 2000fps. Side shots will work on elephant but the choice of PH's will INCLUDE optional penetration for head shots. All the better cartridges you named fit the long and heavy for caliber, fmj,2000-2400fps criteria. Yes, hardened lead will work as a solid. If you watch the video and re-read my original post, the issue is what are the best penetrators and why. None of your arguments have disproved the criteria of long, heavy for caliber, fmj, 2000-2400fps. The closer a cartridge fits those criteria, the better penetration it can achieve.
@@TargetSuite his tape is around the butt stock his shooting shoulder was at least 2 inches lower than his non shooting shoulder when he tried enlisting in WW II they rejected him because of, anyway the Win model 37 shotgun he had he folded a cloth and laid it over the butt stock and wrapped with sky blue electrical tape to hold in place to give him a elevatedcheek rest and in addition he made a front ring sight similar to one Weaver made in those days(1950’s) and it sits on his front bead and it is taped on front of the barrel with that same tape and it all must of worked as he hit what he shot at, I have kept it rigger out the way he had it
Great story. If you would take some pictures of your dad's gun and email them to me at targetsuite@gmail.com I would share your story in an upcoming video.
The dogs a goof ball. If you haven't bought a 99 in 300 Savage, I would gladly send you my 1954 and some ammo. I'll pay shipping one way and ffl when it returns. You can contact me on instagram either way. I'm using my bow, maybe my 308 99 this year.
Solid presentation, Sir.
Thanks Pat!
Good to see you back. I shot the 30-30 so many years I couldn’t give it up if I had to. And yes I’m an old phart.
It's good to be back. And most of the time I think it's good to be an old phart as well😄
The .30WCF will always be KING within it's own limits. When I need less, I go with the .44WCF. When more, I grab the 95' in .30 Army. I've never needed more because I get close, and then closer. It's just the way I hunt. But then again, I have a general distaste for scopes, plastic things, and modern society as a whole.
Great comment!
So you still believe in hunting. Glad I'm not the only one.
As a teenager, I really was unaware the 1894 Winchester wasn't the only lever gun available. Later, working at the gun shop, predecessors and other makers came through the door. But in SW Pa, the 30-30 was really the accepted firearm for brush hunting. So, even though I am not a hunter I found this episode to be more than a little interesting. And the results of that 190 grain bullet very surprising, eye-opening in fact. P.S. I LOVE the dog!
Thanks for watching!
Not the PA machine gun from farther up in the mountains? Remington pumps? I'm nearby in Ohio County, and I doubt there are many deer I've shot that wouldn't have gone down equally well with the .30-30. Save for very few long shots, the rest were well within its abilities. I started in the 80s when everyone was trying something much different than the 94 and 336, but my love turned back to what got me started shooting, a Marlin 39A. Now all my faves are mostly levers of all sorts. Probably the .35 336 being the best all around for our area in my mind. But the .30-30, and 32WS do everything similarly.
I appreciate your time on making videos. The 30-30 will NEVER die in my book! 😁
Rightly so! The 30/30 will definitely live on
I have a '94 Winchester, 30-30, That's a beauty from 1958. But, your '49 was made the year I was born. Loved the video! -Gunny T sends
Then I'm guessing you, like the 1949 Winchester, have a lot of stories to tell😉
Glad you mentioned the year 1949, as I have a 1948 in very good condition, that I purchased many years ago for history and sentimental reasons.
Currently looking for a gunsmith to give it some TLC, also for safety reasons, before I take it out for the first time.
Great channel and great content.
Thank you
Thanks for your comment and thank you for watching!
My first deer rifle was a Winchester 30-30 because of the legend. A short time later I learned of the range of the 150 gr 30-30 bullet. My next and favorite deer rifle is my Browning Abolt in 30-06. I still like the 150 gr bullet for Missouri deer. They tend to stop where they are when they meet one. OMG, that dog is beautiful.
30-06, what a cartridge! Only 11 years younger than the 30-30. I'm going to shoot some 150 and 180gr bullets through the coupons using my buddies 20" barreled 308. That will be interesting!
@@TargetSuite My first deer hunting trip with guys from work was me and the 30-30 and one with a Browning lever 308 and the other was a Remington bolt 7mm-08. We were in brush that you could not see more than 10 yards. No success that day. However, that Browning may still be on my list!
Afternoon George. Enjoyed the shooting. Wife and I got back from Cabo late Thursday night. Had a great time. Your video was the first I looked for. Handsome pup your son has.
Welcome home Max. Glad you guys had a great time. I'm sure it was well deserved!
190 gr? Cowabunga! Even the 170 gr let’s you know you’ve shot something. My first 94 was 30-30 and it consistently launched hot brass right down the back of my collar. I didn’t care for the gun. But my wife’s Marlin 336 was one sweet rifle! 30-30 is a pleasant round to shoot though and it’s history speaks for itself. Another good video George! I understood your sign language quite well, lol!
Haha! I too have had the hot brass treatment but not from this 3030. It was from one of my 1892s.
Fascinating test! “Conventional wisdom” is that massive and slower bullets are brush busters, but this shows clearly that any bullet can deflect. Once while shooting steep downhill at distance in the high country, Dad had a .270 bullet blow up when it clipped an antler tine, leaving a large but shallow and recoverable injury on the deer’s back (next shot anchored it, so we did examine closely). A 405 grain .45-70 bullet wouldn’t have blown up, but then he’d never be shooting that round at such distance.
Thanks for sharing your story. Your dad was lucky to get that second shot!
Fascinating video George. Glad you managed to sort all the editing issues,what a fabulous old gun. Oh and cheers for the GSP bonus bit. I have had seven of those dogs. Three were the best hunting dogs a man could wish for, thanks paul.
Thanks for the comment. And thank you for watching!
That puppy is precious
She is a cutie. Just needs to lose some of that puppy energy:-)
Glad you got the tech problems figured out and your back. So far it seems the 30-30 is in the lead. I have never owned one. When I was younger my grandfather gave me a Savage model 99 in 300 Savage. That was my brush gun.
As I said in another comment, that 300 Savage Model 99 is at the top of my wishlist!
@@TargetSuite Hint, clue?
@@TargetSuite Yes sir. The model 99 comes chambered in .308. Would you consider that a brush gun, or does the caliber make a difference?
I have my grandfather's model 99 in 300 Savage. I took a nice doe with it when my Dad gave it to me and now it's retired as a family heirloom. Sweet rifle
@@hutehund9519 That's awesome! Mine was lost in a house fire. I'm glad yours will live on.
Bout time you showed up. 😜
Get worried when Tuesday comes round and there’s no video from Target Suite. 😢
Keep up the good work! 👍
I'm glad to be back. It was weird not having a video last week.
Glad you're back. I've had a lot of personal experiences in this area.
Thanks! Sometimes it's a little stressful having to get out a video every week, but I sure miss it when I don't.
Welcome back George, don't you just love it when you realize your equipment is more high tech then we are. LoL Had a problem with my cellphone. That buffalo bore bullet surprise me! Your son's dog is a talker for sure. Good looking pup.
I really loved it when my son said, at 41 years old, that he was starting to struggle with technology. For just a moment there I thought life really is fair😄
Many Thanks !! Great PUP !!
Thanks for watching!
I wish the Winchester company would manufacture their old classic line of "Super-X 170 grain Silver-Tips" again. Those were the most accurate rounds my old Winchester 94 Canadian Centennial ever had shot. That rifle has past down from my grandfather to father and now to me. These day's I shoot either Winchester Soft Points or Federal Soft Points both in 170 grains of either brand in flat or round nose styles. Would like to try those Nosler Partitions if I could ever find any locally. Great Video!
I think they still make the 150 Silvertip, but I couldn't find any with 170gr.
@@TargetSuite yeah but it's the ballistic silvertips, not the older original Super X Winchester Brand of slivertips that they discontinued manufacturing around 2011/2012 I think??
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Just following up . . . one of my viewers gave me a box of 30-30 150 grain silvertips . . . the original!. I did a little digging and they were originally made out of tin and then in 1960 Winchester began wrapping the lead nose in an aluminum cap.
@@TargetSuite Great Score! Don't forget to give that viewer a big thanks too!
20 years ago I stumbled upon a Revelation 30-30 in a pawn shop. The stock was in such bad shape that it needed replacement. I struck a really good deal with the owner and walked away with what turned out to be a really sweet shooting brush/truck gun. I replaced the wooden stock with a synthetic one, added a scope, which has since been replaced with a long eye relief scope mounted on a picatinny rail. This little gun has turned out be quite a sweet and accurate shooter. By the way, for those that don't know what a Revelation rifle really is, Western Auto way back when contracted with Marlin (and others) to market rifles and shotguns under their name. Mine was made by Marlin in1972 and shares a lot of parts with their 336.
That's a great story Doug. Thanks for sharing!
Please feel free to correct me if need be, but I think Revaluation was possibly sold out of the Western Auto franchise back in the day. Sears Roebuck had a model, but the name brand for them I am not sure of,possibility J C Higgins. They may have been clones, but I think that they were all built by Marlin. If that truly is the case, you can't go wrong with any of them.
I guess I should have read all of Doug's story before I opened my mouth. At least I was on the right page.
Glad to see the 30-30 test. Performed better than I thought..you did a good job.
Thanks! I appreciate that!
My theory is the rifling in the 94 Winchester has one in 12 twist was is not ideal with 190 grain bullet, although it will stabilize it it will stabilize the 150 grain bullet better, so when the longer Bullet encounters anything it tends to start tripping a lot easier
I suspect you are right. In hindsight the 190 grain bullet sounded like a great idea but it's trying to take the 30-30 somewhere it wasn't designed to go.
Very interesting, I am surprised that the Buffalo Bore was so disappointing.!
I was too. I think it was just the large chunk of exposed to lead couldn't stand up to the coupon. But I suspect on an animal it would be very effective
I know a retired police officer, and he carried a .30-30 in his squad car while active.
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My younger brother has a 1951 94 Model Carbine in very good condition and my older brother has a 1922 94 Model with the long barrel and shortened magazine tube per hunting law back when. Both in 30-30 and both completely wonderful to shoot.
Sounds like your brothers have some great Rivals. But I've got to ask, being the man in the middle how did you miss out?😉
I like my 38-55 it seems to churn through the brush with a flat nose 255 grain bullet.
I wish I could test the 38-55.
@@TargetSuite If you lived nearby you could use mine but believe me the 38-55 can be a challenge with different bore sizes, powders, and long or short brass. I encourage you to obtain one since to me they are challenging but satisfying once you get everything worked out. Keep on making your videos, the wife and I enjoy the knowledge you provide.
Here in the Northeast, everyone grew up using a 30-30, and it's still popular .......Thanks !!
I think it's popular everywhere. And rightly so! Thanks for your comment!
9:12 the bullet hit the coupon and turned sideways. Nifty how it made a keyhole in the target and a different sound on the steel!
Yep. I thought that was interesting too.
How do you think the rifling twist rate might have affected the stability of the BB 190’s? If they’re unstable before they hit the coupon, it’s gonna get a whole lot worse. My dog Roscoe is half Ger. Shorthair Pointer. Wonderful dogs!
Good thinking. The bullets showed no sign of instability prior to hitting the coupon though.
Liked the dog, but loved the cat clock on the wall to your right. I have always wanted one of those and will buy the next one I see. Thanks for the video.
Thanks for your comment. My aunt had one of those Kit Kat clocks when I was a little kid back in the mid-50s. One day I just up and decided to get one of my own. I guess I got old enough I didn't care what people would think😄
Yes, my 30-30 is brush worthy!
My lionhounds loved the puppy!
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This is awesome. Most of my family including myself still use .30-.30. I just wish that the Hornady 150 white tail were included because that’s what we all use with great success.
Thanks. I have shot several boxes of those Whitetail cartridges but in today's world I can only shoot what I can get. I was lucky to find these :-)
I like my marlin 336 chambered in the 35 remington . I also have a marlin 30-30 that I use but when I am in the brush I grab the marlin 35
I think the 35 Remington is a better choice than the 30-30. But that's just my two cents.
I always liked .35 Remington in the 336 rifle
Yes it's a great combination! Thanks for watching.
Perfect combo. I thought people were overreacting until I got one to hunt with.
I agree with Dr. Froghopper that the 190 grain bullet may have only been marginally stabilized with the twist rate of the Model 94. That along with that wide soft nose must have caused the flipping when it struck the coupon. What a great video. The 150 grain seemed clearly superior, but like you said the number of shots fired was too small to definitively prove anything. But now the rest of us can do our own experimenting.
Thanks Glen. I hope folks will share their results in the comments of future brush vids.
Great video that's pretty neat 30-30 it's a piece of family history it looks like I have 1 that's 1 of my favorite rifles
Your efforts make this grown man smile! Ruger touted their .44 carbine would shoot through a 7inch pine tree. I had dead 7in pine behind the house so quick experiment,
.44 carbine,240gr hp,.444 240grsp, 3030 160gr lvrevol ,10yards,only 1 round blew through! Guess? The one I have most in common with we are both old and obsolete! The 3030!!!my 30as is especially partial to those fed 150gr. Fn thanks, rick of orange😀
That's really interesting! I'm net surprised the 44 mag hollow point didn't penetrate, but I sure would have bet on the 444 Marlin oce the 30 caliber LeverEvolution! Btw, is that the Orange that's east of Vidor?
I'm 54 Years old and been hunting with a Winchester 30/30 using a 150 bullet sence I was 12 years old .
I have taken deer with one shot from 20 yards out to 125 yards from the fields to the swamps
Best Gun and Round you can get for do it all killing of animals in the field .
Thanks for your comment! And testimonies like yours in the vast majority. So to the 30-30 naysayers I would just respond . . . "bunk". Of course the caveat is keeping ranges within the limitations of the 30 30 round
I think the 1:12 twist rate was barely stabilizing the 190 grain bullet. 1:10 might have worked better but 30-30 barrels are rifled to optimize lighter bullets. Just my opinion.
That's a possibility.
Very interesting! I need to dig up your video on the 35 Remington and see how it did compared to this one. The 35 Remington is really what I want in a 336A 24-in. Thank you 👍
That is a very cute puppy! You can see quite plainly that it takes after Grandpa. :)))
I'm glad you survived and overcame your digital trauma.
Barks on que . . . just like me😄
I knew that was Federal ammo as soon as I saw it! The extra flat nose on the bullet said it all! I won't hold it against brother. These days we have to take what we can get!
1938 Model 1894 in .30-30, using 150gr, has rarely failed in Pennsylvania for white-tail. Forest, field, brush. As far as I know, all failures were operator error. Going into brush, it is what I first think of. Second is an 1892 in .44WCF. Short of operator error, neither have failed.
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I know that conventional wisdom says that the 170 grain bullet is superior, but I've always been fond of the 150 grain myself. The 150 grain Speer jacketed bullet is very accurate in my Marlin Texan. The most accurate cast bullet was the 150 grain Loverein style bullet inspired by Harry Pope. I could fairly often get 1 inch groups at 100 yards with that. I've just acquired the 150 grain Lee and will be trying it soon. I already have the heavier Lee molds. George, you might be re-framing public opinion on what the best weight bullet is for 30-30.
That's a great idea Glen I may post a separate video dedicated to that subject.
The 170 gr bullet is far superior to 150 gr bullets now that I have shot several decent bucks with reloaded 160 gr ftx bullets and lever evolution powder . I believe this is the best thing that ever happened to the old 30 30! Chronographed velocity is very close to 300 savage velocities ! Which turned the old 30 30 into a different beast entirely!
Do you think the Buffalo Bore ammos are worth it for Brown bear defence?
Considering how 30-30 lever guns are pretty much entirely designed to stabilize 150-170 grain bullets, I really wonder what the thought process was behind them marketing that 190 grain.
Tape on the stock love that good old winchester
I had a thought that nobody has put to the test when it comes to brush gun bullets: what deflects least: a short bullet or a long bullet? Is the short bullet going to restabilize fast while the long bullet tumbles uncontrollably? Or is the long bullet going to be super stable and pile drive through while the short bullet veers off to Albuquerque?
You've raised a good question. A lot of guys have asked about heavier bullets vs. Lighter bullets and the two are kind of intertwined because a longer bullet is going to, by definition, be heavier unless it's a totally different design. And then the test really wouldn't be Apples to Apples. I'll touch on this when I feature the 44 Magnum in this series. Stay tuned.
I had two German Short hairs, they were brothers. Great dogs, I sorely miss them. They were with me 13 years from the time they were 5 weeks old. Try the 30-30 with hard cast bullets... that should be interesting.
That's an interesting thought. I've tried hard cast bullets in the 35 Remington and a 32in or special. Just didn't have any 30 caliber ones to try for this video. I'll see if I can Rectify that in time for a future video. Thanks for your comment!
Are you going to test the 45/70
Yes sir! I've got a couple of new bullets to test that I didn't have when I tested the 45-70 last year.
@@TargetSuite outstanding!!
Great looking pup
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I know it’s from a year ago, but I’d love to see a video just on the gun. It looks like the best attempt an American gunmaker had at a Kipplauf style rifle.
How bout that 150gr 30-30?! So far it has easily outperformed the 35 Remington and 45 Colt, which are two of my favorites. Very surprising. Why, I wonder?
That's a good question Charles. I think I would need to shoot a few more groups with all three of those cartridges to be able to say the 3030 was better. But for this single data point it really did Shine, didn't it?
My first trip ever out west to Utah deer hunting carried a 94 30-30, missed a really nice buck because of unseen small tree top smaller than my little finger. A hard lesson was learned. I love the 30-30 round, not legal deer round here in Ohio.
That just seems ridiculous to not be able to use a model 94 in 30/30 Winchester for deer hunting. Crazy!
@@TargetSuite I should have been more specific, only straight walled cartridge in Ohio from 357mag to.50, but I did recently get a Rossi 92 20" 357mag, love it, great shooter.
I guess great minds think alike😉 I recently got a Rossi 20" 357 Magnum as well.
Get the 38-55 it’s a straight wall case.
That rifle shows a preference for heavier bullets. I wonder what good the BB ammo is if it will not cycle through the Model 94 one of the most common 30/30 rifles out there.
Anyway all the shooting just reinforces my opinion there really is no such thing as a brush buster. After bullet contact with any object it is all up to fate as to where a bullet will go and what will be happening when it arrives at the target.
Pick your shots carefully in heavy cover and be prepared to follow up.
I'm guessing that old model 94 was an anomaly and that newer rifles can handle the Buffalo Bore ammo. But I don't know that for a fact. And yes we are on the same page about the brush busting myth. Thanks as always for your comment.
I could not agree more. Any bullet can deflect regardless of it's weight or caliber. Also, I too am not impressed with the Buffalo Bore's failure to cycle through the Winchester. I wonder how it performs in other rifles such as Henry or Marlin?
Well put.
Good to see you back! You are not making my decision on my next lever action rifle any easier. But the 30-30 is looking like the best option for me. BTW have you heard any news on when Ruger will release their Marlin rifles?
December is when they said on a recent interview
I listened to the same interview referenced by Mikman 55 below and heard that the 1895 is going to come out in December with other models to follow in the new year sometime. But I also heard, and this was a surprise to me, that all of the new rifles will be hammer-forged and not have microgroove rifling.
@@TargetSuite I commented on that post as well with rugers barrels the 336, 1895, and 1894 probably will be very accurate and good shooters won't notice too much change. Where it becomes very disappointing is if they don't use it in the .22 caliber rifles marlin makes. The model 60, 795, and 39 (if they make it) should all use microgroove it seems to work the best with .22s anyways. I have a remington made model 795 and a model 60 made in the 60s both use the microgroove and shoot a lot better than any other semi auto .22 I've been around including rugers 10/22. I guess we can only hope for things.
Thumbs up for the doggo
The 150 grain Federal load tested here is actually a very good load. Usually plenty fast and accurate. The 170 grain Partition should be a real good load for game tougher and heavier than the average deer. I'm a bit confused though, since virtually any 170 grain .30-30 bullet tends to run out of velocity after impact before it runs out of bullet. My guess is that there is likely only a very small margin between any 170 grain .30-30 bullet on big game animals. The Buffalo bore 190 grain is apparently trying to duplicate and improve upon the old .303 Savage load. Maybe it did. That old classic cartridge took it's fair share of game too. Good video. Thanks for doing it.
George, my wife watches with me at times. Where can I get her one of those cat clocks?
Hi Thomas. Here is a link to their website, or you can get them on Amazon as well.
kit-cat.com/
Those BB rounds are pretty impressive at the velocity they claim for that bullet weight. Very close to what my 375 Win pushes 220 grainers at
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Beautiful piece of history!👍🏽😀❤️🇺🇸
Yes it is. As always,, thanks for watching!
I hate to hog the commenting this morning, but the Savage 99 in 303 Savage utilized a 1 in 10 inch twist for the 190 grain bullets it fired. Your Model 94 probably has a 1 in 12 inch twist rate, possibly meaning the 190 grainer is just too long for it. However my old formulas and charts are for spitzer shaped bullets. I imagine that flat points are a whole different ball game.
Hogging approved😉
I'm disappointed you didn't test any Ticonnnnderoga's 😉
...but seriously, do you think the 190gr x 2100fps Buffalo Bore just aren't getting enough spin from that barrel twist to retain stability under brush conditions?
Yes. I think it is a barrel twist rate issue and the 190 grain bullet is just not getting stabilized. They were way too quick to Start Tumbling.
Interesting !! Thanks for the video.
Thank you for watching Earl.
Thanks !
Thank you!
That Buffalo Bore was very accurate but once that flat nose touched a twig she turned quick. I've always liked the Corelokts any 30 calibers. Federal 150s looked good. Thanks for comparison. 👍
Thanks for your comment and thanks for watching!
The longer bullets may not be stabilized by the twist.
Got a Winchester 1894 made in 1905. Octagon barrel great condition .
What a treasure! Congrats!
It would be interesting to see what a 243 would do. Definitely not a brush gun?
I posted four Brush Cartridge videos last year. The first one covered the .243. Here's the link.
th-cam.com/video/H8xi-h48ssY/w-d-xo.html
@@TargetSuite thank you. I must have missed that one. I will watch that video. Thanks for the link.
Talk about a classic! How about that black cat clock on the wall in the beginning of the video. The pendulum tail and the eyes going back and forth!
And the rifle is very nice as well, cracked stock, electrical tape and well worn bluing too.
I grew up with that kit cat clock swinging in my aunt's house. Found one online couple of decades ago and couldn't resist.
Beautiful dog George. Well it seems the heavier, harder and slower make the best brush rounds. Not sure any ammo co. designs a round for brush?? I know there are some really amazing new shotgun "slugs" and barrels which might be better at 150 yds or less.
Heavier and with a very hard flat nose has proven the most resistant to deflection so far. But that was from videos I posted last year. I plan to test some more bullets like that in the weeks to come
Just thinking. Those results show how the lighter 150gn bullet can retain more stability on deflection due to its lighter weight.
Nice channel.
That's a possibility. I will shoot more groups (through the coupons) with the remaining rounds to see if that performance continues. Thanks!
Great info George. Nice looking little pot licker also 👍😃✌️🇺🇸
Thanks! Yes that pup is a cutie.
Great presentation you have a scientific mind. I want to hit the mark and keep them clean and functioning. You take it to the next level for sure. Well done thanks for your time. PS. What's the maximum effective range of the 3030 with the most popular gr. Bullet say 150gr.
Thanks! I appreciate your comment, as always😉
Your son's GSP is a cute pup. 🤠
She sure is!
I agree with you. That is a sweet looking dog and ALMOST makes me want a dog again.
Love the old rifle, wish I owned one.
Well done.,.
Thanks!
The term brush gun is a misnomer. These guns aren't intended to bust through barriers. They're intended to be short handy rifles that and easy to maneuver with and deliver plenty of energy at short range.
What is the point of 190 grain unless you’re hunting bear or elk?
Beautiful rifle and a great round. A relative of my daughter In-laws along with other civilian's guarded the Hoover damn from Japanese fighter's during the second world war with their 30-30 rifle's. 30-30 kind of hit's that sweet spot. Ruger Rich
That's a great story about the Hoover Dam. Thanks for sharing. There is so much history with the Winchester model 94 30-30, from law enforcement to hunting game of all sizes. What a gun/cartridge combination!
@@TargetSuite I love the 30-30 in the BFR revolver, a perfect pair.
Thank you
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What a gorgeous old iron! Appreciate the lack of a sling, some guns are just ment to be carried ...
Thanks! I'm not into slings, especially for lever guns. It's just my things
IMO, the Nosler Partition bullet is not a great candidate brush busting. The jacket in the nose section of the Nosler Partition bullets is very thin to facilitate the rapid expansion that bullet is known for. From the partition rearward, that bullet is tough as nails, however. Thanks for a great video. I love my 1955 model 1894 Winchester that belonged to my dad and my grandfather before him. That rifle has efficiently put a pile of deer into the freezer over the years!
Thanks, I appreciate your comment. While no bullet design has yet to rise to the level of "brush buster" over all of my videos in the series you are probably right about the Nosler partition and why it performed poorly in this test. Thanks for watching!
@@TargetSuite I agree, true brush busting bullets? Yea...maybe not so much. I think the 1894 shines as it's so well balanced for comfortable carry all day and it handles well. You can get it on target quickly and get off tight range shots accurately and it actually lets you pick your shot and MISS the brush and hit the moving deer. Plenty of "knock down" power inside 100 yards. I don't think I killed many deer smashing through limbs and twigs. I know I was able to kill a number of deer on the run by picking an opening the deer would appear in and putting a bullet right though that gap the instant the deer's shoulder was going to be exposed there. Very much like bird shooting in a way!
I have found 45 70 hard cast bullet the best in brush. But all bullets defect
I believe you are correct. It's really just about minimizing the risk. And that is best done by making sure you don't strike something on the way to your target.
What an awsome doggie. 😊😊😊
My little 94 Winchester 30/30 with 16" barrel has killed 5 of the deer I've taken through the years. It likes to eat 130 grain bullets but it's accurate as heck even with the shorter barrel...picked it up for $200 from this girl who shot it once then put it in a safe cuz she claimed it kicked to hard...it was like brand new with original box it came in...I was like thank you lord.....
Well that was a great deal. And it doesn't seem like that lost 5 in is hurting the performance of your 30-30 at all.
@@TargetSuite , it's a true brush rifle...yea, it's really surprised me how accurate it is with the shorter barrel...
I've shot the short barrel carbine in 30-30, and she's right, it does kick too hard!
@@glennycarroll I really didn't notice the difference seem the same kick as my full length barrel but I was sure more then happy to take it off her hands...
300 savage!!!!
Would love a Savage 99 in 300 Savage. Maybe some day.
Wish you lived closer, I could probably make that happen!!!😀
I appreciate the thought for sure!
It would be spectacular had it not been for the electric tape on the stock ! What a ghetto eye sore for that classic rifle
That's one way to look at it. Or you could see the electrical tape as a poor man's fix to a necessary tool.
I knew there was a reason that 150 grain from federal is all I shoot. Just shot the biggest buck I will probably ever shoot with it.
Congrats!
Creating a new comment so you get the notification.
A clarification of what I meant by long bullet vs short bullet. Heavier and lighter bullets in the same cartridge arent going to showcase the theory as well as say, a 140-160gr 6.5 bullet vs a 120gr 30 cal bullet.
Thinking on it more, i guess you could showcase it with one caliber, if it was a 22 like the 223. Those 75gr bullets are much longer than those 55gr pills.
Thanks. I appreciate the new comment because it is hard to find replies to comments. You are right there is a difference. In the next episode I will be able to compare a longer bullet of the same weight as a shorter one and a heavier bullet of the same length as a lighter one. It will make sense when you watch the 44 Magnum video.
.444 surprised me too! I'm from the mother of texas,south of Fredericksburg, and north of richmond,east of culpeper.but not affiliated w/ liberal charlottesville!🙄
Appreciate the response, happy trails! Rick of orange
Haha! Texan to the core I think is what you are trying to say😉
The 3030 is good round no doubt but I leave mine home in favor of the 45-70. I shoot 500 grn pointed home cast bullets out of a 1895 Marlin. Hand load one in chamber with one in tube. Never fails me in woods here in southern Ohio.
You sure can't go wrong with the 4570. Classic and effective!
I liked the video, as I, too, am a lever gun nut. Maybe make your coupons four sticks wide. 🙂
Great suggestion. Some guns may require a wider coupon.
No Marlin 444 🥺
Like the 300 Savage, the 444 Marlin is at the top of my wish list. I just don't have one to shoot for this video series. Thanks for your comment and thanks for watching!
Your coupon sticks are too short. Real brush is more flexible than your short sticks. Engineers call this kL/r for columns. The “Length over radius ratio” describes the strength of a column. The k is a constant according to the material. In order to mimic real brush you should use longer sticks that bend more easily and maybe vary the size (thickness).
Good thoughts. Stick flexibility is something that someone else mentioned in one of the comments. And technically it is true that a flexible stick will have a different impact on bullet path than an inflexible stick. But the amount of time that a bullet spends in one of the sticks is so short that the flexibility component probably has an immeasurable effect on actual bullet deflection.
A 190gr @ 2100fps duplicates the .303 savage. Canadian old timers respected it as a moose round. If you read the writings of people like Kiramojo Bell, Emler Kieth and others who have both real world and technical knowledge of guns and ammo, a pattern emerges. For penetration on non steel/ceramic mediums such as bone, wood, dirt, concrete blocks, brush, flesh, etc, the answer is heavy for caliber, round nose bullets @2000-2400fps. Rounds below 2000fps lack kinetic energy. Rounds above 2400fps,including FMJ, tend to fragment, thus limiting penetration. In the 60's(?), American Rifleman mag did a test similar to yours using a baffle of replaceable wooden pegs. They found heavy for caliber, round nose bullets tracked best. 173gr FMJ 7mm mauser out performed 45-70. 12gauge slugs performed the poorest of any.
Great comment! Thanks! Heavy for caliber worked best last year in the videos that I made last year. And the 12 gauge slug the worst just like you said.
if bullets under 2000 fps lack sufficient energy, all the buffalo, bear, moose, elk, deer, hippo, big cats, and elephants that were hunted pre-1884 must have killed themselves then lol. Velocity=flat trajectory and enables lighter bullets of suitable construction to be used; but destruction of organ tissues=death.
Don't get caught up in the muzzle KE and MV game mfg's have played for the last 120 years, there's a lot more to effective firearms than that (unless we're talking guns for rabbit and squirrel, animals that you can kill with a slingshot lol). Big numbers look good on a box/advertisement, and marginal "improvements" lead to big leaps in the numbers MFG's choose to advertise and emphasize. Advert's for ammo pre-smokeless days usually didn't include an MV or KE number, they stated that it was capable for x,y, and z critters... I wonder why lol. Nothing wrong with more, but it's not necessary.
@@wildrangeringreen Once smokeless powder made velocities over 2000fps feasible, professional big game hunters dropped the pre 1886 cartridges like they were hot potatoes. Kirimojo Bell killed elephants by the HUNDREDS using the 7mm mauser/173gr fmj and brain shots. The pre 1886 cartridges often caused failures to stop due to lack of penetration on the skull. They had more fp/energy but spread over a wider bullet diameter. All the modern elephant cartridges used by professional big three hunters fit in the long, heavy for caliber, 2000-2400fps range. 458win, .577nitro, .404jeffries, etc. Missing for Cape buffalo and elephants is the old .45/70. The professionals in Africa will NOT allow you to use it on elephants due to lack of penetration. The .45/70 with 500gr bullets will not make the 2000fps minimum in its pressure range.
@@mateoocampo3165 except... they didn't. Black powder loadings were still being popularly used well into the 20's, and weren't dropped until the 30's and 40's by mfg's... mostly because early smokeless (smokeless still) had issues with stability in humidity and heat (less so today, but it is still a concern). All of those cartridges/loadings for BP cartridges you mentioned didn't exist until 1890 (.500 Nitro, but even that didn't really take off until the 1910's ) or much later. Fun fact about hunting in most African Countries... PH's have little to no say in what you use, not if they want clients (isn't the free market fun). A few countries have actual laws on what you must use (most of which are comically excessive minimums that can't be attained by most DG cartridge loadings developed pre-1960), but most don't; and as such, many rifles in BP cartridges and ML's are still brought into Africa by hunters and used by locals in Africa every year lol.
You can body-shoot elephant, it works just as well with them as any animal. Head-shooting large animals like Hippo and Elephant only really became a "thing" post 1900 (you know, when people were using surplused/stolen/bought 7x57 and .303 rifles to shoot elephants)
The nitro express cartridges use the same bullets the BPE cartridges did (some loadings are slightly heavier, but are still right around the originals) lol. 2000fps is not a minimum for anything in reality. Despite what hunting shows try to sell you, Cape Buffalo are smaller and no more dangerous than Bison, on average, .50-70 and .45-70 wiped out the American Bison. Velocity flattens the trajectory and allows you to use lighter bullets- Nice if you want it, but you don't need it, like I said. I wouldn't feel the least bit bad about going after Elephant with .50-140-700 or the 577/500 (500gr bullet) BPE No2, loaded with BP. Those are lead bullets, by the way, and no... they don't turn into pancakes at BP velocities. I have considered building a 20 bore rifle to shoot a 900gr bullet with a 170gr charge (can use 20 gauge shot-shells)... that would be the bee's knees for elephant lol
@@wildrangeringreen Again, those cartridges come to their best penetration when they fit the criteria of long and heavy for caliber, fmj, and 2000-2400fps, REGARDLESS of the propellant. If compressed air could reach those criteria, compressed air would work. When you look at the CHOICE of those professional hunters, their calibers always fit the criteria of long and heavy for caliber, fmj, 2000-2400fps. Those PH's will use 12gauge slugs and buckshot on lion but NOT elephant. Thay do not use. 45/70 on elephant but will use a longer cased cartridge to push a similar bullet ABOVE 2000fps. Side shots will work on elephant but the choice of PH's will INCLUDE optional penetration for head shots. All the better cartridges you named fit the long and heavy for caliber, fmj,2000-2400fps criteria. Yes, hardened lead will work as a solid. If you watch the video and re-read my original post, the issue is what are the best penetrators and why. None of your arguments have disproved the criteria of long, heavy for caliber, fmj, 2000-2400fps. The closer a cartridge fits those criteria, the better penetration it can achieve.
In woods hunting a 30/30 is home 🙂👍
Millions would agree😉
Love that rifle, it reminds me of my dad’s old Winchester model 37 shotgun with that tape his has tape as well
👍👍
@@TargetSuite his tape is around the butt stock his shooting shoulder was at least 2 inches lower than his non shooting shoulder when he tried enlisting in WW II they rejected him because of, anyway the Win model 37 shotgun he had he folded a cloth and laid it over the butt stock and wrapped with sky blue electrical tape to hold in place to give him a elevatedcheek rest and in addition he made a front ring sight similar to one Weaver made in those days(1950’s) and it sits on his front bead and it is taped on front of the barrel with that same tape and it all must of worked as he hit what he shot at, I have kept it rigger out the way he had it
Great story. If you would take some pictures of your dad's gun and email them to me at targetsuite@gmail.com I would share your story in an upcoming video.
The dogs a goof ball. If you haven't bought a 99 in 300 Savage, I would gladly send you my 1954 and some ammo. I'll pay shipping one way and ffl when it returns. You can contact me on instagram either way. I'm using my bow, maybe my 308 99 this year.
Awesome. I'll be in touch.
Awesome offer. I will send George the FFL fee on his end.
Looks like your Alexa is listening in.