Just a foot note: The actual correct tap tone frequency is 198HZ, the same as the back plate. As you can hear in the video, I am adjusting to being in harmony with top plate. If I tapped the back plate as a reference tap, the adjusted end pin tap tone would sound both in harmony and identical to the back plate (198HZ) . David L.
Don’t you know is there difference in sound between AcuraMeister Ultimo Ebony hollow endpin and Stradpet Titanium hollow endpin? I have no idea how to tune titanium one to 198 Hz though?
Adel; I did I brief set of acoustic tests with a double bass maker,, concerning endpins, and it appears that the movable end pin does not control the tap tone; but the ebony support collar does. David L.
@@dalemfg Thank you so much, David. Our actual endpin is 8,3 mm max, but the end hole is already slightly oval 8,8 mm max. So, after reaming I need at least 8,8 mm endpin or even 9 mm. We also prefer an endpin without ring and button, because they can disturb neck. That being said, there are two hollow type end pins without ring and button on the market: - Acura InSight VE-NIE*** 8,3-9 mm (not Ultimo series unfortunately) - Stradpet hollow type L (8,8 mm) Stradpet 8,8 mm can be loose after reaming end hole. 8,3-9 mm Acura is not in stock in Russia (only 7,8-8,5 mm ones) and due to covid nobody knows when they arrive. So I’m a little bit in trouble:) As for tap tuning I do not completely understand how endpin can effect sound if all the vibration of tailgut stops at lower nut, isn’t it?
@@adelkharisov ; Good question about why endpin frequency can have an effect? I suspect it has to do with the vibration in the straight line direction of the vibrating strings. If two men held a big vibrating string, as the center vibrates back and forth, you would each feel changes in the end tension, and these, of course, would be at least partially transmitted over the Saddle to the end pin ebony wood. The sensation of an endpin out of harmony with the instrument is a tone when playing that sounds like singing with a mouthful of marbles. The sound is not clear. In your case, you have to ream the end pin hole larger so the larger diameter metal end pin will fit closely. I suspect that as you make the interior hole larger, the side tap frequency on the ebony end pin wood will decrease. If you hear no tonal difference, you have no problem. However, I believe that side tap should be the same frequency as the tap tone of the top plate of your instrument. Try this; with a piece of sound stock spruce or similar spruce tapper, tap the top plate in front of the center of the bridge and immediately afterward, tap the side of the ebony end pin support wood. Let your mind do the listening (do not talk to you self in your mind). If the end pin wood tap is now lower than the top plate; you probably can raise it back to harmony by removing wood evenly from the outside diameter of the end pin wood (protect the vanish of course). Rough sandpaper or a scraper of a small file should be useful. Check after each small change to see your progress. David L.
@@dalemfg If I understood you right, both sides tap (where the tailgut touches the endpin on both sides of the endpin) should be 176 Hz aka top plate and some other parts of the violin. Center pin tap should be 198 Hz aka back plate of the violin. Am I right? P/S I am not a luthier, just disassembled my mothers violin to clean it up with Hill cleaner, change endpin, change friction pegs to Knilling perfection planetary pegs aka Pegheds and a tailpiece to Georg Schegolsky ConCarbo tailpiece without fine tuners. After kevlar tailgut of this set up will break in a little bit we will go the luthier with a clean violin:))
@@adelkharisov Adel; Change that to 213 HZ side tap (which should be about where your top plate is. If you top plate is higher or lower than this; probably best to try and match to that. I have up dated quite a lot of my web site (an am still in that process) at www.violinresearch.com All the best in your musical efforts! David L.
Wow🤯 so interesting! I neva knew!!
Just a foot note: The actual correct tap tone frequency is 198HZ, the same as the back plate. As you can hear in the video, I am adjusting to being in harmony with top plate. If I tapped the back plate as a reference tap, the adjusted end pin tap tone would sound both in harmony and identical to the back plate (198HZ) . David L.
This is wild
I didn't even know this was a thing
I was as surprised as you! David L.
It's very interesting. And you let the hole open ?
Don’t you know is there difference in sound between AcuraMeister Ultimo Ebony hollow endpin and Stradpet Titanium hollow endpin?
I have no idea how to tune titanium one to 198 Hz though?
Adel; I did I brief set of acoustic tests with a double bass maker,, concerning endpins, and it appears that the movable end pin does not control the tap tone; but the ebony support collar does. David L.
@@dalemfg
Thank you so much, David.
Our actual endpin is 8,3 mm max, but the end hole is already slightly oval 8,8 mm max.
So, after reaming I need at least 8,8 mm endpin or even 9 mm.
We also prefer an endpin without ring and button, because they can disturb neck.
That being said, there are two hollow type end pins without ring and button on the market:
- Acura InSight VE-NIE*** 8,3-9 mm (not Ultimo series unfortunately)
- Stradpet hollow type L (8,8 mm)
Stradpet 8,8 mm can be loose after reaming end hole. 8,3-9 mm Acura is not in stock in Russia (only 7,8-8,5 mm ones) and due to covid nobody knows when they arrive.
So I’m a little bit in trouble:)
As for tap tuning I do not completely understand how endpin can effect sound if all the vibration of tailgut stops at lower nut, isn’t it?
@@adelkharisov ; Good question about why endpin frequency can have an effect? I suspect it has to do with the vibration in the straight line direction of the vibrating strings. If two men held a big vibrating string, as the center vibrates back and forth, you would each feel changes in the end tension, and these, of course, would be at least partially transmitted over the Saddle to the end pin ebony wood.
The sensation of an endpin out of harmony with the instrument is a tone when playing that sounds like singing with a mouthful of marbles. The sound is not clear.
In your case, you have to ream the end pin hole larger so the larger diameter metal end pin will fit closely. I suspect that as you make the interior hole larger, the side tap frequency on the ebony end pin wood will decrease. If you hear no tonal difference, you have no problem. However, I believe that side tap should be the same frequency as the tap tone of the top plate of your instrument. Try this; with a piece of sound stock spruce or similar spruce tapper, tap the top plate in front of the center of the bridge and immediately afterward, tap the side of the ebony end pin support wood. Let your mind do the listening (do not talk to you self in your mind). If the end pin wood tap is now lower than the top plate; you probably can raise it back to harmony by removing wood evenly from the outside diameter of the end pin wood (protect the vanish of course). Rough sandpaper or a scraper of a small file should be useful. Check after each small change to see your progress. David L.
@@dalemfg If I understood you right, both sides tap (where the tailgut touches the endpin on both sides of the endpin) should be 176 Hz aka top plate and some other parts of the violin.
Center pin tap should be 198 Hz aka back plate of the violin.
Am I right?
P/S
I am not a luthier, just disassembled my mothers violin to clean it up with Hill cleaner, change endpin, change friction pegs to Knilling perfection planetary pegs aka Pegheds and a tailpiece to Georg Schegolsky ConCarbo tailpiece without fine tuners.
After kevlar tailgut of this set up will break in a little bit we will go the luthier with a clean violin:))
@@adelkharisov Adel; Change that to 213 HZ side tap (which should be about where your top plate is. If you top plate is higher or lower than this; probably best to try and match to that.
I have up dated quite a lot of my web site (an am still in that process) at www.violinresearch.com All the best in your musical efforts! David L.