Here it is! Enjoy the damage. This project has hit quite a few walls, and I don't think there is going past any of those walls :D POBs will be added later to the description! Thanks for watching!
Awesome video! An "easy" way to remember difference between Signed and Unsigned int. Unsigned cannot have the sign -, and goes from 0 to 4294967295, where a Signed in can have a sign -, and can therefore only go half as high, but in each direction -2,147,483,648 to 2,147,483,647.
Yeah, you can barely get 50 from split personality and that's a jewel with limit of 2, it has just few possible mods, you cant even synth/corrupt it and you're forced to build your tree around it too. Nice showcase of power creep
Actually at 24:00 i think since the total went to negative numbers, whats happening is that youre hitting the number cap 3 times, going to positive max dmg, then to negative max dmg, and then the third is going back to 0 so the lightning damage is the only one that shows
I think it's simpler than that. In the 2B to 0 example, we can see that the individual damage type "overflow" is actually just 0. I quoted it since, as far as I understand it, you can't overflow signed int to 0, so whatever maths/variable type they use for the individual damage type calculations just breaks leaving it to 0 (the fact that it doesn't crash is amazing though). So if both minimum and maximum are calculated to 0, then you deal no damage of that type, so you only deal lightning damage in this case. I also assume it is so since the game doesn't show you damage you don't do
@@freecrazymonkey It's not that amazing if you assume they thought about their systems at all. It's trivially easy to just code in an exception for when numbers go "wrong", either discard the display of it or actually clamp it to 0.
If you want a project for next leauge, I had an idea before: Project AFK. Complete a squad that can defeat all major bosses (HP Capped Delve boss, all Ubers with Maven Witness when applicable, Instant Release Feared) while all party members are COMPLETELY AFK for the entire fights. Or at least for as many fights as possible.
To confirm what you are saying about overflowing damage numbers, an overflowing number will always start again at its lowest value by default, because "overflow is neither detected nor handled". When you add 1 to an integer at maximum value, every bit flips (like when adding 1 to 99999999 it turns into 100000000) and there is no space for the 1 that should stand in front of all the 0s so it just gets dropped and every kind of maths operation you can do just gets compiled down to addition afaik. So most you see a negative number where there shouldn't be one, it's just overflow (if the setting makes it realistic at least). Edit: When the lower bound of the damage doesn't overflow but the upper bound does, that's your explanation why one of them is negative and the other isn't
At 25:15 I don't think it overflowed twice. It just so happened that your combined damage went from a positive to a negative number (due to overflowing) and these numbers were really close to each other in magnitude so they cancelled each other out. When you average your "Spell Total Combined Damage" stat you get to the 142 million number that's shown in the "Damage per use" stat
@@lifeloverNorrisidk, project Bob or whatever had like 12bil dps and they waited out the DR phases and some of the bosses lasted a solid second or a bit longer. This is so finicky it would be like gambling to hit it at the perfect high roll. Would be painful. Especially with the squishy build
signed integer (or any other number type) works in cicrle - so it reaches 2.147 bil, when you add 1 - it becomes negative -2.147bil and goes towards 0...and it will circle more pretty much unlimited number of times. The only thing with actual numbers in PoE client - for some reason when the number overflows - it freezes
Did you do any testing to see if the dmg was actually gone vs it just being missing from the character sheet? Possible that the UI uses smaller variable sizes than the underlying mechanics.
3.24 Patch Notes: Hinekora's Lock can no longer foresee the result of corrupting an item with Vaal Orb. When certain modifiers in character tab reach positive or negative 32bit integer limit now it say "Yes" or "No" respectively.
My theorie on what's happening ( probably true ) : With 30bits you can code the value 2 147 483 647 wich gives in binary is 1111111111111111111111111111111 ( 30 bits set to 1 ) The numbers are bugged at a cap because the data encoding of those damage is set to 30 bits wich mean the value of those damage occupy in the memory of your computer 30 bits. 30 bit can code a value as high as 2 147 483 647 so by knowing approximately where the data start to dissapear or stop working properly from the stats sheet, you just discovered the number of bits those variables are encoded with. So, what happened is that the damage went too high to be encoded with 30bits and as a result it make the values goes to 0 You could probably change those 30 bits cap into more by changing only few lines to see your real damage !! all that said, ty for the big project, very entertaining to watch GG
I don't think so because they use some league specific uniques in order to get this to work. Like that jewel and the passive tree you can get from the league event.
2 guesses - 1st there’s some residual phys dmg somewhere, since original sin converts only elemental to chaos. 2nd - if they owerflow chaos twice, than 30% of phys+chaos is over the 2b as well so the poison counter also overflows (hence the low number)
always love your end project. shout out to the team you all did a great job ! guys the amount of work this team do its insane. at least press the like button.
not very well... (obviously still tons of damage but) this is about character spreadsheet numbers. As he mentioned at the beginning they are not scaling any sources that would actually increase hit damage against enemies. I bet this setup has a lot less boss damage than the setup they did last league to try to oneshot the tota guys. (and they oneshot a 100% deli conquerer inc life and % life as ES as warmup there just as reference)
Incredible how well coded this game is nowadays (within its limitations, in this case int32 or whichever it is) to allow all these shenanigans without crashing the game or instance.
the real wall hit would be to make all 4 disappear with balanced conversion (pyre + cotd) or cotd + cold to fire + some other ring (which could give damage actually), u had like 1.6kkk on all of them, so need to find some ~40% ish multiplier to make all 4 disappear and that would be the real wall, not sure is it possible, but this league is the last time when you could try it.
ah good old signed integer limits kicking in. i remember that in World of Warcraft where they had to heal up Garrosh like 5 times over the duration of that fight. On 25HC he had waaaaaaay more health than this 32-bit integer would allow. Next xpac launched with global number squish and 64-bit integers on health.
the reason the combined damage doesn't disappear while the individual damage types do is that the individual types are capped by overflow because they are what is calculated on hit. the combined damage isn't calculated on hit--it is just a number given to the player to help them estimate their total damage per hit when enemy resistances/armor/etc. are accounted for
The trick with numbers is that in programming world numbers have boundaries. For Integer numbers it's from -2.1 billion to +2.1 billion. But what happens then your number is +2.1 billion (maximum) and you add one more? Integer cannot have more than 2.1 billion so in result you will overflow the limit and comes from the negative side. Integer.MAX_VALUE + 1 = Integer.MIN_VALUE. What if you have this expression: 2.1B + 1 + 2.1B = ? You will end up at zero, because once you add 1 - you will come from negative side [-2.1 billion]. Than you add 2.1 billion which will result at 0. What if you have this expression: 1B + 1B + 1B + ... + 1B = ? (hundred of additions) I do not know :) But you will circle between boundaries and end up somewhere in between. That is why you can have negative value, that positive value, than negative again and so on by only adding one number to another Welcome to programming world :)
So quick explanation of what is happening: Normally there is a "cap" on the highest number a computer can actually reach, if you go over this cap and the game doesn't "cap the number" at maximum then you overflow the number and go into the "next" number, which happens to be the lowest number possible. This is called an "Overflow" since in binary thereis not enough "slots" to carry over the overflowing number in a sum, and is usually prevented by capping numbers or similar (This protection against overflow appears to be implemented on the singular damage types, which seems to go to 0 if bizarre things start to happen?). So this means that if you keep adding numbers to the lowest possible number you WILL eventually reach the highest possible number again, reaching positive numbers until you get to the highest possible number, then to the lowest possible number causing a "second overflow", which you can repeat ad infinitum. Its fascinating how when not enough protections are implemented around something as old and simple as an overflowing number, the game appears to act in erratic ways and starts breaking in unexpected ways. Very fun project.
Yup. That's what you get when you deal with overflowing values that go into negative and overflow again. It's like if you'd be watching a race between a cheetah, a rabbit, a toddler and a snail and you know the cheetah is the fastest but at some point you get confused like "I dunno on which lap everyone is but I guess they're at least all going in the right direction?"
Insane stuff but I'm just wondering why haven't you tried it on a boss to see if you can kill it with "0 damage" or kill it through the extreme damage reduction at the start. Nonetheless it is insane what you and your group are doing. Thanks for spicing up end league for all of us
![[PoE] Final Crucible gambas - 17 Awakened Empowers, shiny corrupts & cards - Stream Highlights #740](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dp19J96EOrI/mqdefault.jpg)
![[PoE] Final Crucible gambas - 17 Awakened Empowers, shiny corrupts & cards - Stream Highlights #740](/img/tr.png)
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That double Call of the Brotherhood making the cold damage disappear, you achieved Absolute Zero!
Best joke we could make ! xD
Here it is! Enjoy the damage. This project has hit quite a few walls, and I don't think there is going past any of those walls :D
POBs will be added later to the description!
Thanks for watching!
wait wait... could this explain why with a mirror abow and 100D build in month1,.. i felt like i was a wet noodle.... or was it overtuned mobs.
Be or not to be? what damage will choose?
@@Dripi_weta because you played a glass cannon dps build?
Hi, aren’t the 4 min power and min endurance charges decrease your potential damage?
Awesome video!
An "easy" way to remember difference between Signed and Unsigned int. Unsigned cannot have the sign -, and goes from 0 to 4294967295, where a Signed in can have a sign -, and can therefore only go half as high, but in each direction -2,147,483,648 to 2,147,483,647.
GGG
3.24 patch notes
Discharge deal 2.3% less flat damage
Molten Strike no longer deal damage
That molten Strike nerf won't stop me from stacking 6 medium clusters with "Eye to Eye" and "Repeater" xd
”What is your cold damage?”
You : ” 0 Kelvin ”
29:47 the real name of the project...
29:55 * vsauce theme song kicks in *
The jewels giving 50+ int each is actually insane
Yeah, you can barely get 50 from split personality and that's a jewel with limit of 2, it has just few possible mods, you cant even synth/corrupt it and you're forced to build your tree around it too. Nice showcase of power creep
@@petrjara7559good thing it’s an ARPG
Mahuxolotl's Mechanism Ornate quiver
Maloney's Machination Steel Kite Shield
Steelworm tower shield
Thanks for the build guide. I love those 10 divs challenge builds!
24:55 even chat overflowed and disappeared 🤯
hmm still zdps Quin69 build
dammit i'm late
@@dosenkeks5599Always wonder why kids like you guys say the same shit everytime.
@@nathanl8769 meme, its a fuckin meme. dont take everything so serious
@@nathanl8769 what
Negative to positive damage ? Empyrian team create the first healer on poe ?
It would be really cool to do an interview with GGG and give a summary of all the mechanics you've tested and your findings. See what they think.
do you recommend this build for a league start next league?
Actually at 24:00 i think since the total went to negative numbers, whats happening is that youre hitting the number cap 3 times, going to positive max dmg, then to negative max dmg, and then the third is going back to 0 so the lightning damage is the only one that shows
I think it's simpler than that. In the 2B to 0 example, we can see that the individual damage type "overflow" is actually just 0. I quoted it since, as far as I understand it, you can't overflow signed int to 0, so whatever maths/variable type they use for the individual damage type calculations just breaks leaving it to 0 (the fact that it doesn't crash is amazing though). So if both minimum and maximum are calculated to 0, then you deal no damage of that type, so you only deal lightning damage in this case. I also assume it is so since the game doesn't show you damage you don't do
@@freecrazymonkey yea or its just that, funny either way!
@@freecrazymonkey It's not that amazing if you assume they thought about their systems at all. It's trivially easy to just code in an exception for when numbers go "wrong", either discard the display of it or actually clamp it to 0.
If you want a project for next leauge, I had an idea before: Project AFK.
Complete a squad that can defeat all major bosses (HP Capped Delve boss, all Ubers with Maven Witness when applicable, Instant Release Feared) while all party members are COMPLETELY AFK for the entire fights. Or at least for as many fights as possible.
you can do this solo with ivory tower RF builds, like captain lance's and just stand still while RF burns them over 40 minutes, gg all ubers
To confirm what you are saying about overflowing damage numbers, an overflowing number will always start again at its lowest value by default, because "overflow is neither detected nor handled". When you add 1 to an integer at maximum value, every bit flips (like when adding 1 to 99999999 it turns into 100000000) and there is no space for the 1 that should stand in front of all the 0s so it just gets dropped and every kind of maths operation you can do just gets compiled down to addition afaik. So most you see a negative number where there shouldn't be one, it's just overflow (if the setting makes it realistic at least).
Edit: When the lower bound of the damage doesn't overflow but the upper bound does, that's your explanation why one of them is negative and the other isn't
thats not true -- x86 has subtraction, multiply and divide instructions
At 25:15 I don't think it overflowed twice. It just so happened that your combined damage went from a positive to a negative number (due to overflowing) and these numbers were really close to each other in magnitude so they cancelled each other out. When you average your "Spell Total Combined Damage" stat you get to the 142 million number that's shown in the "Damage per use" stat
it hurts me that you didnt see what would happen if you hit a boss with all this damage
Literally the same as hitting it on a white mob from the twilight strand, only boss with hard coded phases will live a bit longer.
@@lifeloverNorrisidk, project Bob or whatever had like 12bil dps and they waited out the DR phases and some of the bosses lasted a solid second or a bit longer. This is so finicky it would be like gambling to hit it at the perfect high roll. Would be painful. Especially with the squishy build
got to love this dedication to the game, absolutely amazing. Great end league project and an amazing result. Props to everyone!
Ty for build guide but what pantheons and bandit?
"Hello support, my damage number were stolen "
signed integer (or any other number type) works in cicrle - so it reaches 2.147 bil, when you add 1 - it becomes negative -2.147bil and goes towards 0...and it will circle more pretty much unlimited number of times. The only thing with actual numbers in PoE client - for some reason when the number overflows - it freezes
Whats the league starter budget on this thing please?
Yes
Did you/the group consider the Pantheon shrines from the Kirac shrine memory? I have no clue how they compare but they're pretty insane.
Did you do any testing to see if the dmg was actually gone vs it just being missing from the character sheet? Possible that the UI uses smaller variable sizes than the underlying mechanics.
So we were on page 67 in Math right?
3.24 Patch Notes:
Hinekora's Lock can no longer foresee the result of corrupting an item with Vaal Orb.
When certain modifiers in character tab reach positive or negative 32bit integer limit now it say "Yes" or "No" respectively.
Okay, but is it league start viable?
Also casually almost breaking the energy shield record again while trying to scale damage 😂 I love PoE and I love you :)
"The numbers are numbers" - Empy 2024
I am confused, if you overflow each damage type so they all disappear, would you be able to kill anything?
its like u move so fast u became invinsible, Great stuff by empy and everyone on this project!
Thx again Empy and the rest of the team for doing these every league
Today we learn about integer overflow
My theorie on what's happening ( probably true ) :
With 30bits you can code the value 2 147 483 647 wich gives in binary is 1111111111111111111111111111111 ( 30 bits set to 1 )
The numbers are bugged at a cap because the data encoding of those damage is set to 30 bits wich mean the value of those damage occupy in the memory of your computer 30 bits.
30 bit can code a value as high as 2 147 483 647 so by knowing approximately where the data start to dissapear or stop working properly from the stats sheet, you just discovered the number of bits those variables are encoded with.
So, what happened is that the damage went too high to be encoded with 30bits and as a result it make the values goes to 0
You could probably change those 30 bits cap into more by changing only few lines to see your real damage !!
all that said, ty for the big project, very entertaining to watch GG
Will wait for the GGG interview!
the rimworld music at like 2:04 made me think my rimworld was open
This feels like a professor at a university giving a lecture about PoE. And I love it. The knowledge is insane. Gg
how it will work in standard with the indigon that give up to 60%?
I don't think so because they use some league specific uniques in order to get this to work. Like that jewel and the passive tree you can get from the league event.
W8 can you make it acual build with battery staff? ( soo you ramp indigon on mana than pop with ES with staff)?
Did you experiment with energy blade at all? That's like 30k base at 600% effect
How it still does poison damage when chaos damage is gone ?
2 guesses - 1st there’s some residual phys dmg somewhere, since original sin converts only elemental to chaos. 2nd - if they owerflow chaos twice, than 30% of phys+chaos is over the 2b as well so the poison counter also overflows (hence the low number)
You need to DO chaos dmg to do poison so why does the poison dps inc if all your chaos is "gone"?
what if you actually hit a mob with the consolidated chaos damage? (when it only displayed poison damage)
Last two leagues have been spending mirrors to limited test the game.
I, too, want to hear what the devs have to say about that hahaha
How much damage does this build do?
2020 POE - "Yes"
2024 POE - "No"
I love these projects - looking each league forward for these. Good video!
always love your end project. shout out to the team you all did a great job ! guys the amount of work this team do its insane. at least press the like button.
Thanks!
i wonder if you could oneshot ubers breaking mechanics this way. or are they litteraly immune at x% to go into a phase to avoid dmg.
they go immune you cannot one shot multi-phased bosses, there have been 1 shot boss builds for many many leagues
You can, some guys with broken items in std did this
Always here for the end league shenanigans, you guys never disappoint :)
Why didnt they used a 6th person for a 7th and 8th leer cast ?
they would have to upgrade the int 32 into int 64 for you to see the real numbers cause you are just overflowing the limit of int 32 numbers
could this build do ubers tho?
Getting so much cold damage you deleted the damage type is almost as insane as gaining an MTX you dont own for casting too fast
9:56 Nice, the Adorned 150% is giving you 40 max HP, POG !
Great project, always fun to watch your end game projects
This is the closest damage to league mechanic monster damage on League launch ever registred
What would happen if a Boss was hit by that?
not very well... (obviously still tons of damage but) this is about character spreadsheet numbers. As he mentioned at the beginning they are not scaling any sources that would actually increase hit damage against enemies. I bet this setup has a lot less boss damage than the setup they did last league to try to oneshot the tota guys. (and they oneshot a 100% deli conquerer inc life and % life as ES as warmup there just as reference)
Incredible how well coded this game is nowadays (within its limitations, in this case int32 or whichever it is) to allow all these shenanigans without crashing the game or instance.
"I must have time to gather my will"
I wanted to see “convert 99% of elemental damage to cold” or something and try to see the damage of the other elements
I can't believe that having too much damage being bad is empirically right
the real wall hit would be to make all 4 disappear with balanced conversion (pyre + cotd) or cotd + cold to fire + some other ring (which could give damage actually), u had like 1.6kkk on all of them, so need to find some ~40% ish multiplier to make all 4 disappear and that would be the real wall, not sure is it possible, but this league is the last time when you could try it.
Can't wait for the PoB to replicate this myself.
This was a great watch thx
Id love to hear from a dev why the different elemental dmg part went poof.
the real world analog to this build is a creature so powerful it makes black holes every time it emits exhaust
ah good old signed integer limits kicking in.
i remember that in World of Warcraft where they had to heal up Garrosh like 5 times over the duration of that fight. On 25HC he had waaaaaaay more health than this 32-bit integer would allow.
Next xpac launched with global number squish and 64-bit integers on health.
When you deal too much damage that you deal zero damage, POE is such a amazingly weird game lmao.
we found it. we actually found too much dakka.
If you need an idea for another currency deletion build. The best infinite loop aka Jousis build
You guys really broke the game with this one. I hope GGG looks at this footage.
Not testing this on an uber boss without shrines is a huge bummer
its always great to see stuff that i will never be able to do. cant wait for the next one. keep up the amazing videos!
Quin reinvents this build every league btw
Nice league start build guide!
the reason the combined damage doesn't disappear while the individual damage types do is that the individual types are capped by overflow because they are what is calculated on hit. the combined damage isn't calculated on hit--it is just a number given to the player to help them estimate their total damage per hit when enemy resistances/armor/etc. are accounted for
So, how much damage did you end up making? None apparently if you try too hard :D
damage type = integer, for fix need use long, es
"ultimate zdps" is the best phrase ever
project schrodinger, you have both all the damage and none of them
First you reached the abolute zero, then you reached absoluter zero
Great project once again love these vids every league, glad to be a long time supporter
Did you guys checked poe ninja? Top1?
Yet another banger league starter, thanks empy!
okay, empy you’ve done a lot, but this is quite literally game-breaking. What if you used HH to ramp?
The trick with numbers is that in programming world numbers have boundaries. For Integer numbers it's from -2.1 billion to +2.1 billion.
But what happens then your number is +2.1 billion (maximum) and you add one more? Integer cannot have more than 2.1 billion so in result you will overflow the limit and comes from the negative side.
Integer.MAX_VALUE + 1 = Integer.MIN_VALUE.
What if you have this expression:
2.1B + 1 + 2.1B = ?
You will end up at zero, because once you add 1 - you will come from negative side [-2.1 billion]. Than you add 2.1 billion which will result at 0.
What if you have this expression:
1B + 1B + 1B + ... + 1B = ? (hundred of additions)
I do not know :) But you will circle between boundaries and end up somewhere in between. That is why you can have negative value, that positive value, than negative again and so on by only adding one number to another
Welcome to programming world :)
So quick explanation of what is happening:
Normally there is a "cap" on the highest number a computer can actually reach, if you go over this cap and the game doesn't "cap the number" at maximum then you overflow the number and go into the "next" number, which happens to be the lowest number possible. This is called an "Overflow" since in binary thereis not enough "slots" to carry over the overflowing number in a sum, and is usually prevented by capping numbers or similar (This protection against overflow appears to be implemented on the singular damage types, which seems to go to 0 if bizarre things start to happen?).
So this means that if you keep adding numbers to the lowest possible number you WILL eventually reach the highest possible number again, reaching positive numbers until you get to the highest possible number, then to the lowest possible number causing a "second overflow", which you can repeat ad infinitum.
Its fascinating how when not enough protections are implemented around something as old and simple as an overflowing number, the game appears to act in erratic ways and starts breaking in unexpected ways. Very fun project.
when i was playing archmage i would avoid the altars since they messed with my spend so much. the massive shrine made me instantly double cast lol
Yup. That's what you get when you deal with overflowing values that go into negative and overflow again. It's like if you'd be watching a race between a cheetah, a rabbit, a toddler and a snail and you know the cheetah is the fastest but at some point you get confused like "I dunno on which lap everyone is but I guess they're at least all going in the right direction?"
What an insightful and relatable comparison.
Dude, im definitely league-starting this. Hope i can reach that damage too
starter build¿?
Its prob from when they converted from 32bit to 64bit. Old code to overcome the old 32bit limitation,
Insane stuff but I'm just wondering why haven't you tried it on a boss to see if you can kill it with "0 damage" or kill it through the extreme damage reduction at the start. Nonetheless it is insane what you and your group are doing. Thanks for spicing up end league for all of us
Cant spell Path of Exile without Excel!
that list of what is not affecting damage is like list of side effects on drugs
Ok, so, Project: Damage does not stack damage and removes 75% off all your damage? i fully understand
Yes, but can you map with it? =)
You cant do anything with it lol
this is just insane, nothing to add
I think there are cheaper ways how to make a quin build.