Think you've gone in the wrong direction. It sounds like you think that you have to have super modern devices with streamers and active speakers, which is completely wrong. What you should start with is an ordinary, simple, high-quality integrated integrated or separate preamplifier. And perfectly normal good speakers and not active. If something is popular and many people buy it, that does not mean good, high quality, unfortunately. I think the problem is the Speakers you have. in most cases, the weakness is the speakers. Speakers are often not as good as you think. Have seen far too many cases where you start to wonder if the factory is trying to scam you out of money
@@davidkclaytonActive speakers can be as good as they are designed to be and can easily beat passive speakers due to better more precise cross-over filtering and direct amp per driver. My KEF LS60 do really well, for example.
That is Presuming that Paul has the time and inclination for that. A more realistic scenario would be to plan a nice vacation in Colorado and visit PS Audio.
Especially with speakers! I got some B&W 706 speaker as reference for my speaker building. They are excellent for basic woofer level etc. But they suck in enjoyment and I like my built speakers way more. They sound nearly the same except mine have a bit more throatiness in the voice sound ( but makes a way better soundstage). And the upper bass/lower med sounds really foofy on the B&Ws. But the 100 grand B&W Nautilus demo on YT sounds like my made speakers (more throaty than the 706s). 😅 They make the $2,000 B&W speakers sound bad on purpose, so they can sell their 100 grand Nautilus. 😢 Or (for some reason) I'm so gifted that I can make my $500 made speaker completely flog $2,000 speakers and sound nearly as good as 100 grand speakers. More like the former I reckon). I heard that a lot of home built speakers flogging bought speakers! GR Research (onYT) pulls apart bought speakers and is disappointed every time. It cost him $300 to fix $500 speakers and also $300 to fix 5 grand speakers (and originally the expensive speakers didn't sound much different to the $500 ones). 😅 Both needed fixing badly. Look him up. 😅
Room Treatment is the culprit. An untreated Room is better than a badly treated Room. I think Paul has given an excellent clue, when he pointed out that in a 'properly' acoustically treated room, when people speak, the sound is 'clearer', more 'live'.
I think many people build an unrealistic expectation in their head about how they’re going to feel about something and get let down by reality. This is often compounded with a little buyers remorse.
I have a high-end system in Zack's price range and some days and nights it blows me away and others I think "that's a nice hifi, okay." It's certainly not the same as "live," though sometimes the illusion of "live" is much stronger than others. It's normal to sometimes feel let down by a good sound system, but if it's consistent, it's either the system or system/room interaction itself, one's expectations, or both.
@@Canadian_Eh_I If it is all about the pleasure of listening to music, rather than owning and boasting about your system, I would recommend spending a tenth of what you have lost (and you have lost it) on your $50K hifi. Learn to love music. This is very sad, I feel.
Having taken choirs on tour, the room made all the difference. Sometimes we were in a room with a low ceiling and accoustical tiles on the ceiling and it was like singing inside a sponge. Companies that accoustically treat rooms usually are hired to deaden a room for speaking. That's a killer for musical events.
$200 Pioneer SX-780 recapped, $50 Advent/1 recapped/re-foamed, $50 Sony SA-WM40 subwoofer, $100 Technics SL-1900 all tuned up, minimal damp/diffuse treatment in the room, all under $500 and I absolutely love it!
You people act as if you have to prove low cost audio equipment is enjoyable. Settle down, some people shove ear buds in their ears and crank the Mp3 (bottom of the barrel digital.) and enjoy the living hell out of it. There's no one out there that disapproves of low cost audio systems. Just like John Lennon wrote... ..."whatever gets you through the night"...
Paul has stated speakers being the most important factor in one’s system many times. I was never really on that camp until I experienced it myself. I have a pair of, I won’t mention the brand that is voiced so specifically, that when I went from a $450.00 amp to a 10k front end, it basically sounded damn near the same. The speakers never scaled up and it was crazy. It goes to show you, you have to experience it yourself to really understand it. As usual, Paul is pretty much dead on.
i think it's not about the systems , it's just that the present day recording industry and any sorts of listening productions , is not just up to par .
Once you reach a certain level of fidelity it should be about finding the sound you love. I've recently moved to a hybrid tube/solidstate Mcintosh amp, which is cheaper than other amps I've used and definitely not a pure recreation of the studio sound, simply because it has the musical sweetness and warmth that makes me love my music. I came to the realisation late that I had surpassed the point where I wanted ultimate 'truth' and should be simply looking for what makes me happy
Great tip there for quickly checking if the room treatment is the main culprit. I would add that his ' using flac files that have been ripped from CD' is a little vague. We all love flac files, but it's not always mentioned how they can differ depending on the settings used when ripping.
My first thought as well. The acoustic treatments. I used to have heavy carpet and the sound was dull. Replaced it with hard flooring and some additional comfy chairs and it’s all singing and dancing.
Agree with Paul. First thing I thought of was too much damping. On a personal note, I had a similar experience and got too caught up overthinking and being critical of every note, instrument placement in the recording, layering, height, depth, soundstage and the list goes on. As soon as I recognized I was analyzing and not listening, I just sat back, relaxed and began to enjoy the music.
I agree with Paul here. I would also say it is the Room and the speakers and I am sure the speakers are good but everyone's hearing is not the same. This just proves the point that just because you spent a huge amount of money for a stereo system does not mean you will enjoy the best sound. Everyone's hearing is not the same and while a certain Stereo setup may sound awesome to you, someone else will say it is lacking to their ears, and the hard part is finding that stereo setup that blows your mind when you hear it
Trying out different speakers is worth a shot,but as active speakers are being used,the poster will need to add some new amps too,unless he looks at some other active alternatives.
I think Paul hit the nail on the head. Also, great sounding speakers can often overcome "average" electronics, but if the speakers don't match your room acoustics and/or your listening preferences, the highest-end electronics can never fully compensate. Three years ago, I bought a set of speakers that cost about $1500. They are driven by a very inexpensive integrated amp. However, the sound is glorious! Three years later, I still marvel at the detail and nuance they bring out in old recordings that I have been listening to for decades.
I've had cheap but well-balanced speakers sound glorious with high-end gear behind them, though obviously better speakers provide more dramatic improvement.
The truth about being an "Audiophile" is that one will simply never be satisfied even if they find the Ultimate Holy Grail, because their thirst for trying something new will always kick in.
That's why I bought an integrated valve amp, once my system is capable of doing valves justice I no longer care because my thirst for experimentation will be limited to valves. With the help of my RME ADI 2 that will do everything but make tea. Though my Focal Arias are wonderful chosen as they where not to influence the sound of my valves , they are the only part of my system I might change and that is because of an expensive South Corian speaker that I think would score 100% on my characteristics wish list.
I think one crucial distinction is between "great sound" or "great great sound" and "the Absolute Sound." TAS would be too expensive, time-consuming, subjective, and inconsistent/uncertain for me- and no equipment does absolutely everything better than any other. I just try to get really good sound out of my system on the budget/time/focus I can afford for it. Thus I'm an audiophile who's usually satisfied with my system, despite knowing its relatively weaker points.
Room size and treatment for sure. I bought my system by listening to it first in a demo room where it blew my mind, it sounded unbelievable. Brought it home and sounded like crap. Ended up selling it. Big systems need big space.
I think the biggest potential problem is that, when buying speakers, nobody else’s opinion matters but your own. There are some absolutely incredible speakers I have heard reaching well into the 5 figure range that I don’t find enjoyable in the least, despite being exceptionally revealing. You need to make sure first and foremost, that you enjoy the sound and look of your speakers, and ignore what anyone else says. You can have the flattest frequency response, with the most expensive speakers in the world, but if YOU don’t love their sound and get excited to listen, you should definitely find other speakers. AT a certain price point, every speaker does a good job, but you have to find one that makes you excited to listen to your favorite music again.
One other thing that might reduce the excitement in a system is the wrong power conditioner. Some of them remove a lot of noise, but at the cost of dynamics. They can rip the soul out of a system.
The Dutch & Dutch 8C’s do sound amazing in terms of tone, coherence, accuracy. They are standmounts. Therefore what you might be missing is the fun and “oomph” of a floorstanding speaker or a subwoofer. Try adding an inexpensive subwoofer or two (to test) if you wish to keep the Dutch & Dutches.
The Dutch & Dutch 8C have surprisingly good low end. They are designed to couple with the head wall to reinforce the bass response. The owner probably won’t see my response buried down here, but he should set his speakers up in a near field presentation, eliminating the room, and see how he feels about their sound. If this improves what he hears, it is the room. I own a pair of D& D 8C.
I don't think he mentions if he has a preamp. If he is going straight from the streamer/DAC to the active speakers(amp) he could be missing something there. When I connect my DAC directly to my amp it sounds incredibly detailed but thin. When I add my Naim 72 preamp things improve dramatically. Paul has discussed preamps before.
I've got a very, very basic and cheap system at work to listen to the radio or Spotify, and I'm often surprised at how good is sounds - no I'm not saying it's anything like a high end system (I've never, and never will hear high end anyway) but it seems to be much more than the sum of it's parts. I often thing that I probably get more joy from it than someone who's bought a system to show off how much money that they've spent.
Exactly. He doesn't want good sound, just an opportunity to tell everyone how much he has spent. The money would have been better spent on therapy, and charity. What a dickhead.
It could be his ears as well. Maybe he can't hear some frequencys anymore or one ear hears different from the other. I would first go and find a System setup that I realy enjoy and try to mimic what I heared there. By compqring that to your own system you can find out what it is that you are missing in your setup.
I have to wonder that having the ability to spend so much money on audio gets in the way of expectations. 15 years ago before I retired I started conceiving would make my ears happy. So, you can scoff, but I listen all near field, in my basement, at my computer desk near the work bench. I've built all my own equipment, tube amps, except for the DAC, a cheap one. So all I can say is that I am thrilled to hear things in music that were not there 15 years ago as I learned in building my own equipment. It is a progressive thing, so I guess everyone has to find their own magic bullet as our ears are all different!
Paul, I couldn't have said it better myself. The one thing I would add regarding the choice of speakers is that taste matters. Speaker reviews are like food reviews. Unless you eat it for yourself, you won't really know how much, if at all, you will actually enjoy it.
well not exactly. expensive stuff can sound awful, sure, but on the other hand cheap stuff very rarely, if at all, can compete with true quality gear which is - well - expensive to manufacture thus expensive to purchase.
I'm going to offer the Barry Schwartz counterpoint that the customer is a 'maximiser', going to painstaking lengths to ensure all the purchases are the best ones. Maximisers tend to have the least satisfaction with their purchases because their enjoyment from the purchase is not proportionate to the huge amount of time and effort that went into their final decision.
This was one of my thoughts too. His system may never match his expectations because he expects his carefully orchestrated expenditures to lead to 'nirvana'.
He didn't actually want a good sound, just the opportunity to boast, even if in an inverted manner, of how much he has spent on his hifi.His letter to Paul helps him in this way. He will never be satisfied, and needs to take a long look at himself.
I'm with Paul on this. A Studio room is nothing like a listening room should be. You are probably suffering from a "sterile" environment, that is getting too close to an anechoic chamber. This will make the music sound lifeless. If you want to get technical, you need to aim for an average RT60 measurement around 600ms. This will keep a bit of liveliness. I managed to achieve this by covering the ceiling with 8mm (3/8") polystyrene panels/tiles and only a couple of diffusers in the room, nothing more. I can no longer "hear" my speakers, the soundstage is wide, deep and spacious and it didn't cost a lot to achieve! TIP: Start with no treatment and gradually add. Don't fill the room then start removing stuff. You may be surprised how little you often need to get it right.
The listener and what music they listen to is key. What really would make the listener satisfied, excited and enjoy their system is based on their prior listening experiences, both live and recorded. I'm an audiophile but it is such a slippery slope. Not enough is said and explained as to the limitations of replicating an artificial musical experience. The pros such as Paul McGowan (yes, I own PSAudio equipment), might want to explore this topic of a very subjective experience. Thanks, Paul for all that you bring forth.
Zake, take your speakers to a friend's (who has a roughly similar quality system) place where you like the sound. swap yours in & see if they sound better to you there. if there is a notable improvement, then see if you can remove as much damping material as possible from your room. note an improvement? this kinda approach (take 'em to multiple friends listening rooms / have those folk listen in your room / drag 'em to a "bright" room & see if you like that sound more, etc. - what fun!) is time & labor rich. however, you aren't buying more hardware, you are isolating the issue(s) that disturb your listening pleasure.
I know that I'm not the final word, but... My thought is that the more likely culprit is the room. As Paul notes, our listening spaces are not the same as professional acoustic spaces. While the speakers may not match the PS Audio Aspen series, I feel that it is likely that they could do a very good job - given a properly treated audio listening room. As Paul noted, one easy test for this is to listen to the room with people as the sound source. If your friends and family don't sound right in the room, then music NEVER will. If it sounds dead (likely) then it needs to be redone. Fortunately, it should be relatively easy to undo at least some of the "professional" acoustic treatment and see if that helps or hinders the experience.
I think that these speakers are designed primarily for studio use in near to mid field monitoring applications. This could be the issue here and they also have room correction built into them. If this is not configured correctly the combination with the room treatments could make them sound wrong.
My setup is about 7K and my pre&power amp is 30yrs old. I had them "upgraded" with an upgrade kit about 8 yrs ago. I stopped long ago believing what Audiophiles wrote. I took my daughter a few years ago to buy a new set of speakers. We listened to a number of them. We both preferred the less expensive speaker over the more expensive. When at home they sounded as good as in the listening room at the HiFi shop. And we have no "modified" room. And lets not forget this. It is about the music. If you are just listening to your sound system, you are missing the point.
I third/fourth/tenth what Paul is saying. I remember going to a high-end manufacturer whose electronics I've bought and enjoyed over the years, fronting speakers I knew and liked, and being fairly underwhelmed hearing them with music I knew and loved- and in retrospect realized that the listening room had been over-damped. In general, I think an under-damped room is better than an over-damped one. Otherwise, maybe the speakers- and remember- the sound you like is what's important, not the "Absolute Sound" or anyone's impression of it.
And on the other side of the spectrum, most of my equipment was given to me for free, or used and costs a few hundred dollars here and there, and some of it needed a little work. But it puts a smile from ear to ear every time. But money is relative and the law of diminished returns is always at play. I hope this gentlemen can figure out why his system is not engaging like mine is to me. Paul's explanation is probably right, fix the room, change the speakers and he should be good to go. Also lose any power conditioners in series with the equipment as these can hinder current, and use a quality hardwired parallel surge protector, like MCG, at the panel that feeds the audio equipment. Cheers, and good luck.
He bought what he could spend a lot of money on instead of what he liked the sound of, thinking he would like the sound of it just because he spent a lot of money on it.
I have spent silly amounts of money on so called high end gear and never liked any of it. I believe the reason is that I placed such high expectations on it that it could never live up to it. Every time I listened I was listening for flaws and it made me anxious all the time. For example, I bought a gyro-dec with an RB-300 and a Denon DL-110 cartridge and every time I heard the smallest pop or click I was annoyed as I expected perfection. I then found a Trio turntable in a skip, one of those stone plinthed ones. I took it out, cleaned it up, gave it a new stylus, just a basic eliptical, and fired it up and was smiling all the way. It cost me nothing, I had no expectations for it, although I could see it was a good model. So that became the basis for my belief in my hi-fi and it has served me well ever since. I now have a Technics SL-100C that has a Techincs EPC-207C cartridge on with a Tonar eliptical stylus on it, plugged into a Pioneer A-449 which is bi-wiring a pair of TDL Studio 1M speakers. I could not be happier :D
The equipment doesn’t do nearly as much for me as the music performance (and maybe the recording) itself. I’ve repeatedly heard great music on near failing grade equipment. As for my rooms, I just have carpeting on the floor and that’s all I need for “sound absorption.”
A common failure of all audiophiles: purchasing based on what a technical spec sheet reads. "Look at these numbers! According to the specs this piece of equipment is incredibly accurate at reproducing (insert whatever seems important). I gotta buy it!" I've heard a number of fantastic low budget systems (e.g., less than $4K). The science is listening with your ears and piecing a system together, not reading from a spec sheet. Once you get over the spec sheet hurdle, you'll be on your way to creating a great system.
It's so simple, and I don't understand why people don't get this: there's no guarantee that something costly is going to be better, in any branch of life! The expectation alone is naïve. What's mostly true, if not always, is that higher quality is going to come at a price. In a nutshell: while there is such a thing as quality/price ratio, best think of it as a one-way.
Try some different music, on top of what Paul says. Duke Ellington's Blues in Orbit and Jazz Party (in Stereo) are great, lively recordings. If they sound dull, you've got a really over damped room or speaker compensation. Then the album John Coltrane and Johnny Hartmann for quiet vocals in a small group. I'm so glad that my $2000 system responds to pulling my position another 6" away from the nearest wall. The tonal balance is already good but moving my ears puts space into the sound stage.
I’m finding that a lack of warmth in one’s system can be huge. If the presentation lacks body and weight, it can sound great, but too clinical and thin.
I'm with you on that. He needs to identify what's bothering him before he can fix it,or he'll just be on a merry go round. I used to work in hifi retail and it would be a little frustrating when a customer would say "I don't like this,or that",but without being able to express why. You'd end up guessing what they might prefer rather than identifying some more specific areas like poor bass control, lack of dynamics etc. It can be difficult for some to pinpoint what they feel they need more or less of sometimes .
I'd warn against assigning a monetary value to excitement and pleasure. There seems to be an assumption that the more something costs, the better it must be. Worse, that your happiness is to be measured against the happiness of others in their systems. When is a system good enough? When it's good enough - FOR YOU. When I was younger, I loved my system and how it made music sound, yet is cost virtually nothing. Today I've got a modest system only. Don't endlessly chase an ideal, love the music.
I find that the type of music and quality of the recording makes all the difference in the world. For my money, jazz recordings from ECM and Gondwana labels are some of the best out there. Most other genres of music sound too compressed to excite me, i.e. there's no space around the instruments/notes like you get from a carefully engineered jazz recording.
Build the gear yourself. My second pair of speakers, made up of the Raal 140-15D, Lowther DX 65, (2) Jordan 150 NG's/channel, the moving coils all loaded into 12 foot long waveguides, cost 4500 bucks, for the drivers. My two OTLs, monobloc, Class AB, 60Watts into 16 Ohms and a single ended Minibeast at 7 Watts, also into 16 Ohms, maybe 3+ grand. My Audio Note kit DAC a couple of grand. If you pay others to build your gear, you're paying what the market will demand. And the prices commanded today, are completely insane.
I think the reason is you’re too anxious about your equipment so that you can’t enjoy the music. Mood affects enjoyment of music than everything else. Go and listen to a much less costly music system in your best mood and you feel it’s sound better than your expensive system. You can throw more money to get what you want but you might not going to enjoy music, because you’re still searching for better experience and finding faults in the existing system. It’s psychological and thats how audio manufacturers and expensive audio accessory companies make money.
Great point. I also think that after the initial impact of an upgrade wears off, it’s easy to start finding faults with a system. Familiarity can result in the listener forgetting how their system sounded before the last upgrade so I think your advice of listening to familiar music on a less capable system makes sense. One alternative is to listen to an album that has not been played since the last upgrade as this will hopefully reveal how much better the system sounds, assuming that’s an option. I also agree that mood can have an effect. It can sometimes be a case of listening to the system rather the music, which I will admit to have been guilty of.
My question to this person would be, what kind of sound do you gravitate to or impresses you would it be sound of pro audio like a theater or concert type sound or is it more like upscale refined home audio?
None of those, he just wants to tell everybody he's spent £50k on hifi. I often wonder if anybody just spends that sort of money and listens to the music, or do they have to tell everybody they can, which is what his letter is about. What a dick.
Eq'ing your speaker might help get them how you like. Buying different speakers is often about the particular EQ. They might not be to your taste. But an EQ could be your saving grace.
Change each item and A/B the gear. I just bought a wildly raved about amp to replace the one I have...It is huge and gorgeous but did not live up to my other amp.
@1:01 "...ripped from CDs..." Most digital content has sub-par sound quality. The better your stereo becomes, the more you hear how the studio personnel screwed up. @1:04 "...and I buy original pressings of vinyl, whenever I can." Most vinyl pressings have sub-par sound quality -- original pressings included (although originals are usually better). The better your stereo becomes, the more you hear how the studio personnel screwed up (or the pressing plant screwed up). @1:15 "What do you recommend I should try?" Verify that you did not mistakenly connect one of your speakers "out of phase". That can happen if you got your cables between your pre-amp and amp criss-crossed, or from your amp to your speaker criss-crossed (but the latter is not the case with active speakers -- however, the former could be your problem). One of the store's installers did that to my right speaker, and it killed the sound quality. Next, did you use good interconnects? If you used mass produced, department store interconnects on a revealing stereo, then your revealing stereo will reveal the sound degradation caused by your crummy interconnects. If you are using a mass produced USB cable anywhere for your digital content, that will wreck your sound quality. Those USB cables are fine for printing and for computer hubs. But for DACs, they will bring any stereo to its knees. A quality Audioquest USB cable will do wonders for any stereo. Same thing for power cords. At a minimum... for your DAC, use a quality power cord from Shunyata Research or Audioquest. DACs (or in your case your streamer, which contains a DAC) throw a lot of noise into the A/C line, and it leaks into the other components. All components will benefit from quality power cords. But the DAC is #1 for creating power-line noise. A quality power cord will virtually eliminate that noise, with no detrimental affect on the rest of the sound. I do not know how it accomplishes that task -- but it does. Next: Speaker placement. It is critical to get your speakers positioned in their ideal location. And if the bass is wrong, due to the location or your room, then you will never be happy. But as far as musical content is concerned, the vast majority of what the studios release (and what the pressing plants release) should qualify the customers for refunds. They rarely get it right. So it could just be that you are under the impression that with a great stereo you should hear great sound quality. That cannot happen when the songs you are playing has sub-par sound quality -- and most do. Finally, if your turntable is not properly isolated (few are, even when their owners think that they isolated them), then you will have vibrations causing feedback. And when that feedback is not obvious, that is when it goes unaddressed. Put your turntable on a Townshend Scismic Isolation Platoform, and hear your soundstage blossom. And did you professionally dial in every vector of your turntable / tone-arm / cartridge? Misaligning any of the many vectors is akin to your car's tires rubbing up against the curb, or your car pulling to the left or right, or you steering wheel shaking, etc. You want your stylus to rub the groove exactly where it should be rubbing the groove, and nowhere else. Professionally dialing it in will do wonders for your vinyl playback. But before spending more $money on anything, check that you do not have any cables criss-crossed (out of phase). Cheers!
@@johnholmes912 "Interconnects can be bought for very little, and spending more does not improve SQ" Spend whatever you want. If I purchase a $3 set of interconnects from Home Depot, and I sell them on eBay for $300, that did not make those interconnects any better. But quality interconnect are better than mass produced interconnects, and will allow your stereo to sound its best. Lesser quality interconnects will diminish your stereo's sound quality.
@@johnholmes912 "Interconnects can be bought for very little, and spending more does not improve SQ" You wrote it on the internet. Therefore, it is true.
Hi Zack! I think before selling the speakers and "de-treating" the room you should buy a quality SUBWOOFER! That will change EVERYTHING ;) get the crossover correct and go from there ;)
My guess is it's to some extent related to the DSP in the speakers and their crossover. DSP is really good for technical appreciation of elements of the sound and perfect for pro-audio applications and home theater, where sound serves a primarily visual medium and the task of building a product respectively. In an 'audiophile' context it's capable of wowing for ten to twenty minutes but not so great for connecting to music (in my experience) because it renders the sound fake/plasticky/unreal/not emotionally engaging.
Streaming is very rarely as good as cd or flac, the one cable I find changed the quality was the USB from computer to dac bog standard won't cut the mustard.
I'm guessing the deadness of the room and flat signal of passive speakers is where it's losing some excitement...get a pair of Horn speakers and wake that room up
Wrong choice of speakers. That pair of speakers is monitor type. More than half of audiophiles will regret after acquiring this type of speakers after a while.
I don’t get this: audiophiles that go separate everything (source, DAC, power conditioners, uber-expensive cables and interconects) and then use powered speakers! Just get a good integrated amp (or a pre &power) and try as many speakers as you can! Where I’m from, the law requires full refund for anything you bought online in a 30-days window.
My experience with trying to find suitable studio monitors showed me that , for all the perfect accuracy and definition, I just could not get comfortable with the sound of digitally powered speakers. even cheaper brands with Solid state amplifiers just sounded beautiful to my ears. they breathed music, the digital sound sounded choked or something... weird...
I would say that the problem is "lack of education". We need to learn to listen BEFORE we start picking gear. We need to take advantage of home try out schemes.
Get rid of the active speakers..maybe.. components must work together.. wish I could see the room and setup.. my antique system sounds real and achieves concert levels in my sound room..for way less money..
The key is when he says speakers that “everyone raves about”. He bought them because he felt he was supposed to like them
Yes, How many times I've heard (read) people and reviewer's rave on about a product and then buy it and not been happy.
Think you've gone in the wrong direction. It sounds like you think that you have to have super modern devices with streamers and active speakers, which is completely wrong.
What you should start with is an ordinary, simple, high-quality integrated integrated or separate preamplifier.
And perfectly normal good speakers and not active.
If something is popular and many people buy it, that does not mean good, high quality, unfortunately.
I think the problem is the Speakers you have. in most cases, the weakness is the speakers.
Speakers are often not as good as you think. Have seen far too many cases where you start to wonder if the factory is trying to scam you out of money
@@ford1546 Yes, I would agree on active speakers. They are better suited for background music
I dont all for catch phrases, espcially everybody loves these blablabla
@@davidkclaytonActive speakers can be as good as they are designed to be and can easily beat passive speakers due to better more precise cross-over filtering and direct amp per driver. My KEF LS60 do really well, for example.
If you can afford all that… fly Paul in to see & hear your system!
That is Presuming that Paul has the time and inclination for that. A more realistic scenario would be to plan a nice vacation in Colorado and visit PS Audio.
@@hugobloemers4425 Yep do that 💪
"I don't enjoy the sound of my system as much as I think I should." This is the cornerstone upon which the audiophile industry is built.
Especially with speakers! I got some B&W 706 speaker as reference for my speaker building. They are excellent for basic woofer level etc. But they suck in enjoyment and I like my built speakers way more. They sound nearly the same except mine have a bit more throatiness in the voice sound ( but makes a way better soundstage). And the upper bass/lower med sounds really foofy on the B&Ws. But the 100 grand B&W Nautilus demo on YT sounds like my made speakers (more throaty than the 706s). 😅 They make the $2,000 B&W speakers sound bad on purpose, so they can sell their 100 grand Nautilus. 😢 Or (for some reason) I'm so gifted that I can make my $500 made speaker completely flog $2,000 speakers and sound nearly as good as 100 grand speakers. More like the former I reckon). I heard that a lot of home built speakers flogging bought speakers! GR Research (onYT) pulls apart bought speakers and is disappointed every time. It cost him $300 to fix $500 speakers and also $300 to fix 5 grand speakers (and originally the expensive speakers didn't sound much different to the $500 ones). 😅 Both needed fixing badly. Look him up. 😅
Room Treatment is the culprit.
An untreated Room is better than a badly treated Room.
I think Paul has given an excellent clue, when he pointed out that in a 'properly' acoustically treated room, when people speak, the sound is 'clearer', more 'live'.
I think many people build an unrealistic expectation in their head about how they’re going to feel about something and get let down by reality. This is often compounded with a little buyers remorse.
I'm definitely guilty of that!
Yes, this is why I build my own speakers. Its the enjoyment of the process along with the music. Much more gratifying than just buying it
I have a high-end system in Zack's price range and some days and nights it blows me away and others I think "that's a nice hifi, okay." It's certainly not the same as "live," though sometimes the illusion of "live" is much stronger than others. It's normal to sometimes feel let down by a good sound system, but if it's consistent, it's either the system or system/room interaction itself, one's expectations, or both.
@@Canadian_Eh_I If it is all about the pleasure of listening to music, rather than owning and boasting about your system, I would recommend spending a tenth of what you have lost (and you have lost it) on your $50K hifi. Learn to love music. This is very sad, I feel.
@@barlow2976 Were you trying to reply to someone else? I havent spent nearly that much money on hifi. I build my own stuff for fun.
Having taken choirs on tour, the room made all the difference. Sometimes we were in a room with a low ceiling and accoustical tiles on the ceiling and it was like singing inside a sponge. Companies that accoustically treat rooms usually are hired to deaden a room for speaking. That's a killer for musical events.
My foot taps when I listen to my $5000 stereo. Mission accomplished. No room treatments, no crazy cabling. Very old pair Mirage M3's.
$300 sansui 4000, $125 minty large advents, $25 estate sale Pioneer pl-518... dancing around the room for under $500
$200 Pioneer SX-780 recapped, $50 Advent/1 recapped/re-foamed, $50 Sony SA-WM40 subwoofer, $100 Technics SL-1900 all tuned up, minimal damp/diffuse treatment in the room, all under $500 and I absolutely love it!
You people act as if you have to prove low cost audio equipment is enjoyable. Settle down, some people shove ear buds in their ears and crank the Mp3 (bottom of the barrel digital.) and enjoy the living hell out of it. There's no one out there that disapproves of low cost audio systems.
Just like John Lennon wrote... ..."whatever gets you through the night"...
Mirage M3s are fun speakers. I worked for a Mirage dealer back in the '90s and loved the whole bipolar aesthetic...so did my cats!
@@Mark-lq3sb show me on the doll where the budget audio file hurt you
Paul has stated speakers being the most important factor in one’s system many times. I was never really on that camp until I experienced it myself. I have a pair of, I won’t mention the brand that is voiced so specifically, that when I went from a $450.00 amp to a 10k front end, it basically sounded damn near the same. The speakers never scaled up and it was crazy. It goes to show you, you have to experience it yourself to really understand it. As usual, Paul is pretty much dead on.
I've heard sources and electronics of mine scale up as I got better ger, though certainly not on the same scale as with speakers
I take long breaks from my main rig. Sometimes months. When you come back, it’s epic sounding again.
In my case the system sounds bad when I had listened to crappy airpods pro before… It’s psychoaccoustics (ears can be tuned to that crap)
i think it's not about the systems , it's just that the present day recording industry and any sorts of listening productions , is not just up to par .
Once you reach a certain level of fidelity it should be about finding the sound you love.
I've recently moved to a hybrid tube/solidstate Mcintosh amp, which is cheaper than other amps I've used and definitely not a pure recreation of the studio sound, simply because it has the musical sweetness and warmth that makes me love my music. I came to the realisation late that I had surpassed the point where I wanted ultimate 'truth' and should be simply looking for what makes me happy
Great tip there for quickly checking if the room treatment is the main culprit.
I would add that his ' using flac files that have been ripped from CD' is a little vague. We all love flac files, but it's not always mentioned how they can differ depending on the settings used when ripping.
My first thought as well. The acoustic treatments. I used to have heavy carpet and the sound was dull. Replaced it with hard flooring and some additional comfy chairs and it’s all singing and dancing.
Agree with Paul. First thing I thought of was too much damping. On a personal note, I had a similar experience and got too caught up overthinking and being critical of every note, instrument placement in the recording, layering, height, depth, soundstage and the list goes on. As soon as I recognized I was analyzing and not listening, I just sat back, relaxed and began to enjoy the music.
I agree with Paul here. I would also say it is the Room and the speakers and I am sure the speakers are good but everyone's hearing is not the same. This just proves the point that just because you spent a huge amount of money for a stereo system does not mean you will enjoy the best sound. Everyone's hearing is not the same and while a certain Stereo setup may sound awesome to you, someone else will say it is lacking to their ears, and the hard part is finding that stereo setup that blows your mind when you hear it
Trying out different speakers is worth a shot,but as active speakers are being used,the poster will need to add some new amps too,unless he looks at some other active alternatives.
I think Paul hit the nail on the head. Also, great sounding speakers can often overcome "average" electronics, but if the speakers don't match your room acoustics and/or your listening preferences, the highest-end electronics can never fully compensate. Three years ago, I bought a set of speakers that cost about $1500. They are driven by a very inexpensive integrated amp. However, the sound is glorious! Three years later, I still marvel at the detail and nuance they bring out in old recordings that I have been listening to for decades.
I've had cheap but well-balanced speakers sound glorious with high-end gear behind them, though obviously better speakers provide more dramatic improvement.
The truth about being an "Audiophile" is that one will simply never be satisfied even if they find the Ultimate Holy Grail, because their thirst for trying something new will always kick in.
That's why I bought an integrated valve amp, once my system is capable of doing valves justice I no longer care because my thirst for experimentation will be limited to valves.
With the help of my RME ADI 2 that will do everything but make tea. Though my Focal Arias are wonderful chosen as they where not to influence the sound of my valves , they are the only part of my system I might change and that is because of an expensive South Corian speaker that I think would score 100% on my characteristics wish list.
I agree. I bought the Hegel 390 and it’s great, but I have a Chinese Cayin tubes amp, costing four times less and that’s the one I listen to the most!
@@notenote2004 Interesting you should say that because before I took the 'risk' of buying a valve amp I had considered the Hagle (190) as my safe bet.
I think one crucial distinction is between "great sound" or "great great sound" and "the Absolute Sound." TAS would be too expensive, time-consuming, subjective, and inconsistent/uncertain for me- and no equipment does absolutely everything better than any other. I just try to get really good sound out of my system on the budget/time/focus I can afford for it. Thus I'm an audiophile who's usually satisfied with my system, despite knowing its relatively weaker points.
@@johnh539 Cayin CS55 A, just try to listen to one..!
Room size and treatment for sure. I bought my system by listening to it first in a demo room where it blew my mind, it sounded unbelievable. Brought it home and sounded like crap. Ended up selling it. Big systems need big space.
I think the biggest potential problem is that, when buying speakers, nobody else’s opinion matters but your own. There are some absolutely incredible speakers I have heard reaching well into the 5 figure range that I don’t find enjoyable in the least, despite being exceptionally revealing.
You need to make sure first and foremost, that you enjoy the sound and look of your speakers, and ignore what anyone else says. You can have the flattest frequency response, with the most expensive speakers in the world, but if YOU don’t love their sound and get excited to listen, you should definitely find other speakers. AT a certain price point, every speaker does a good job, but you have to find one that makes you excited to listen to your favorite music again.
I would agree with Paul. I over damped my own room, and the sound was just dead. Not all reflections are bad🤔
Synergy between components ...or rinse youre sinus 😊..
My 5000 dollar set sounds awesome..everyday i enjoy it.
What does that say?
One other thing that might reduce the excitement in a system is the wrong power conditioner. Some of them remove a lot of noise, but at the cost of dynamics. They can rip the soul out of a system.
Sometimes it’s also the listener chasing something unobtainable.
The Dutch & Dutch 8C’s do sound amazing in terms of tone, coherence, accuracy. They are standmounts. Therefore what you might be missing is the fun and “oomph” of a floorstanding speaker or a subwoofer. Try adding an inexpensive subwoofer or two (to test) if you wish to keep the Dutch & Dutches.
The Dutch & Dutch 8C have surprisingly good low end. They are designed to couple with the head wall to reinforce the bass response. The owner probably won’t see my response buried down here, but he should set his speakers up in a near field presentation, eliminating the room, and see how he feels about their sound. If this improves what he hears, it is the room. I own a pair of D& D 8C.
I don't think he mentions if he has a preamp. If he is going straight from the streamer/DAC to the active speakers(amp) he could be missing something there. When I connect my DAC directly to my amp it sounds incredibly detailed but thin. When I add my Naim 72 preamp things improve dramatically. Paul has discussed preamps before.
I would start by trying passive speakers and a separate amp. which could work well in the existing room setup.
I've got a very, very basic and cheap system at work to listen to the radio or Spotify, and I'm often surprised at how good is sounds - no I'm not saying it's anything like a high end system (I've never, and never will hear high end anyway) but it seems to be much more than the sum of it's parts. I often thing that I probably get more joy from it than someone who's bought a system to show off how much money that they've spent.
Exactly. He doesn't want good sound, just an opportunity to tell everyone how much he has spent. The money would have been better spent on therapy, and charity. What a dickhead.
It could be his ears as well. Maybe he can't hear some frequencys anymore or one ear hears different from the other. I would first go and find a System setup that I realy enjoy and try to mimic what I heared there. By compqring that to your own system you can find out what it is that you are missing in your setup.
I have to wonder that having the ability to spend so much money on audio gets in the way of expectations. 15 years ago before I retired I started conceiving would make my ears happy. So, you can scoff, but I listen all near field, in my basement, at my computer desk near the work bench. I've built all my own equipment, tube amps, except for the DAC, a cheap one. So all I can say is that I am thrilled to hear things in music that were not there 15 years ago as I learned in building my own equipment. It is a progressive thing, so I guess everyone has to find their own magic bullet as our ears are all different!
Paul, I couldn't have said it better myself. The one thing I would add regarding the choice of speakers is that taste matters. Speaker reviews are like food reviews. Unless you eat it for yourself, you won't really know how much, if at all, you will actually enjoy it.
*Because it is obvious that the price, especially of audio equipment, DOES NOT DETERMINE its quality in any way!*
well not exactly. expensive stuff can sound awful, sure, but on the other hand cheap stuff very rarely, if at all, can compete with true quality gear which is - well - expensive to manufacture thus expensive to purchase.
Sounds likes like the time to demo a pair of FR 30’s
50 grand on a home system. Certifiable.
Goes to show spending lots of money on a system does not always buy great sound.
I'm going to offer the Barry Schwartz counterpoint that the customer is a 'maximiser', going to painstaking lengths to ensure all the purchases are the best ones. Maximisers tend to have the least satisfaction with their purchases because their enjoyment from the purchase is not proportionate to the huge amount of time and effort that went into their final decision.
This was one of my thoughts too. His system may never match his expectations because he expects his carefully orchestrated expenditures to lead to 'nirvana'.
He didn't actually want a good sound, just the opportunity to boast, even if in an inverted manner, of how much he has spent on his hifi.His letter to Paul helps him in this way. He will never be satisfied, and needs to take a long look at himself.
I'm with Paul on this. A Studio room is nothing like a listening room should be. You are probably suffering from a "sterile" environment, that is getting too close to an anechoic chamber. This will make the music sound lifeless. If you want to get technical, you need to aim for an average RT60 measurement around 600ms. This will keep a bit of liveliness.
I managed to achieve this by covering the ceiling with 8mm (3/8") polystyrene panels/tiles and only a couple of diffusers in the room, nothing more. I can no longer "hear" my speakers, the soundstage is wide, deep and spacious and it didn't cost a lot to achieve!
TIP: Start with no treatment and gradually add. Don't fill the room then start removing stuff. You may be surprised how little you often need to get it right.
And yet the room is arguably the most important component in an audio system.
New Record Day
👉Mastering Room Acoustics: Your Complete Guide To Perfect Sound!
th-cam.com/video/M_Kck6RmXEc/w-d-xo.html
Great video Paul. Now go change that light bulb!😁
The listener and what music they listen to is key. What really would make the listener satisfied, excited and enjoy their system is based on their prior listening experiences, both live and recorded. I'm an audiophile but it is such a slippery slope. Not enough is said and explained as to the limitations of replicating an artificial musical experience. The pros such as Paul McGowan (yes, I own PSAudio equipment), might want to explore this topic of a very subjective experience. Thanks, Paul for all that you bring forth.
Many times I had the same problem. For me now, medium and high ribbons work very well.
Zake, take your speakers to a friend's (who has a roughly similar quality system) place where you like the sound. swap yours in & see if they sound better to you there. if there is a notable improvement, then see if you can remove as much damping material as possible from your room. note an improvement? this kinda approach (take 'em to multiple friends listening rooms / have those folk listen in your room / drag 'em to a "bright" room & see if you like that sound more, etc. - what fun!) is time & labor rich. however, you aren't buying more hardware, you are isolating the issue(s) that disturb your listening pleasure.
The infinite pit of insatiable desire is a terrible place to be.
Expectations is the key. Bought these new analytic speakers, and they gave me just a overwhelming feeling of fatigue and frustration
Very good advice for a difficult situation Paul.
I know that I'm not the final word, but... My thought is that the more likely culprit is the room. As Paul notes, our listening spaces are not the same as professional acoustic spaces. While the speakers may not match the PS Audio Aspen series, I feel that it is likely that they could do a very good job - given a properly treated audio listening room. As Paul noted, one easy test for this is to listen to the room with people as the sound source. If your friends and family don't sound right in the room, then music NEVER will. If it sounds dead (likely) then it needs to be redone. Fortunately, it should be relatively easy to undo at least some of the "professional" acoustic treatment and see if that helps or hinders the experience.
I think that these speakers are designed primarily for studio use in near to mid field monitoring applications. This could be the issue here and they also have room correction built into them. If this is not configured correctly the combination with the room treatments could make them sound wrong.
My setup is about 7K and my pre&power amp is 30yrs old. I had them "upgraded" with an upgrade kit about 8 yrs ago. I stopped long ago believing what Audiophiles wrote. I took my daughter a few years ago to buy a new set of speakers. We listened to a number of them. We both preferred the less expensive speaker over the more expensive. When at home they sounded as good as in the listening room at the HiFi shop. And we have no "modified" room. And lets not forget this. It is about the music. If you are just listening to your sound system, you are missing the point.
I third/fourth/tenth what Paul is saying. I remember going to a high-end manufacturer whose electronics I've bought and enjoyed over the years, fronting speakers I knew and liked, and being fairly underwhelmed hearing them with music I knew and loved- and in retrospect realized that the listening room had been over-damped. In general, I think an under-damped room is better than an over-damped one. Otherwise, maybe the speakers- and remember- the sound you like is what's important, not the "Absolute Sound" or anyone's impression of it.
Oh I've been there before over the years.
Sounds familiar.
Paul is right again and tells it wonderful! 😊 I love his style.
And on the other side of the spectrum, most of my equipment was given to me for free, or used and costs a few hundred dollars here and there, and some of it needed a little work. But it puts a smile from ear to ear every time. But money is relative and the law of diminished returns is always at play.
I hope this gentlemen can figure out why his system is not engaging like mine is to me. Paul's explanation is probably right, fix the room, change the speakers and he should be good to go. Also lose any power conditioners in series with the equipment as these can hinder current, and use a quality hardwired parallel surge protector, like MCG, at the panel that feeds the audio equipment. Cheers, and good luck.
He bought what he could spend a lot of money on instead of what he liked the sound of, thinking he would like the sound of it just because he spent a lot of money on it.
Paul... Have you had the opportunity to listen to Bang Olufsen’s “Beolab 90”? If so, what are your impressions?
perhaps he should spend some money hiring a music sound adjustment Specialists to treat his room & calibrate his system
Man that is brutal to hear!
Would be really nice to know more information.
I have spent silly amounts of money on so called high end gear and never liked any of it. I believe the reason is that I placed such high expectations on it that it could never live up to it. Every time I listened I was listening for flaws and it made me anxious all the time. For example, I bought a gyro-dec with an RB-300 and a Denon DL-110 cartridge and every time I heard the smallest pop or click I was annoyed as I expected perfection. I then found a Trio turntable in a skip, one of those stone plinthed ones. I took it out, cleaned it up, gave it a new stylus, just a basic eliptical, and fired it up and was smiling all the way. It cost me nothing, I had no expectations for it, although I could see it was a good model. So that became the basis for my belief in my hi-fi and it has served me well ever since. I now have a Technics SL-100C that has a Techincs EPC-207C cartridge on with a Tonar eliptical stylus on it, plugged into a Pioneer A-449 which is bi-wiring a pair of TDL Studio 1M speakers. I could not be happier :D
The equipment doesn’t do nearly as much for me as the music performance (and maybe the recording) itself. I’ve repeatedly heard great music on near failing grade equipment. As for my rooms, I just have carpeting on the floor and that’s all I need for “sound absorption.”
A common failure of all audiophiles: purchasing based on what a technical spec sheet reads. "Look at these numbers! According to the specs this piece of equipment is incredibly accurate at reproducing (insert whatever seems important). I gotta buy it!" I've heard a number of fantastic low budget systems (e.g., less than $4K). The science is listening with your ears and piecing a system together, not reading from a spec sheet. Once you get over the spec sheet hurdle, you'll be on your way to creating a great system.
Set up your Dutch & Dutch 8C for near field listening. If this improves what you hear, then it’s your room.
It's so simple, and I don't understand why people don't get this: there's no guarantee that something costly is going to be better, in any branch of life! The expectation alone is naïve. What's mostly true, if not always, is that higher quality is going to come at a price. In a nutshell: while there is such a thing as quality/price ratio, best think of it as a one-way.
I can always hear large plastic waveguides adding a hollow sound no matter how good the tweeter.
The problem is two fold. Listening to others opinions instead of actually listening. Assuming spending more always gets you more.
Try some different music, on top of what Paul says. Duke Ellington's Blues in Orbit and Jazz Party (in Stereo) are great, lively recordings. If they sound dull, you've got a really over damped room or speaker compensation. Then the album John Coltrane and Johnny Hartmann for quiet vocals in a small group.
I'm so glad that my $2000 system responds to pulling my position another 6" away from the nearest wall. The tonal balance is already good but moving my ears puts space into the sound stage.
Speakers are key from my experience also. I changed my speakers and it was game changer.
What does he mean by “don’t like”; lack of clarity, soundstage, realism, too Bhoomi, not enough bass?
Don't like can be just as simple as "it does not make me happy", or "not getting my dopamine fix".
I’m finding that a lack of warmth in one’s system can be huge. If the presentation lacks body and weight, it can sound great, but too clinical and thin.
I'm with you on that. He needs to identify what's bothering him before he can fix it,or he'll just be on a merry go round. I used to work in hifi retail and it would be a little frustrating when a customer would say "I don't like this,or that",but without being able to express why. You'd end up guessing what they might prefer rather than identifying some more specific areas like poor bass control, lack of dynamics etc. It can be difficult for some to pinpoint what they feel they need more or less of sometimes .
Perhaps not the case, but worth considering - it's the journey that scratches the hobby/passion itch, not the actual destination.
And also bring the speakers far away from the walls.
Yep - the room damping was also my 1st guess.
I'd warn against assigning a monetary value to excitement and pleasure. There seems to be an assumption that the more something costs, the better it must be. Worse, that your happiness is to be measured against the happiness of others in their systems. When is a system good enough? When it's good enough - FOR YOU. When I was younger, I loved my system and how it made music sound, yet is cost virtually nothing. Today I've got a modest system only. Don't endlessly chase an ideal, love the music.
He doesn't love the music, he loves owning, wanting, and boasting about over-priced hifi.
I find that the type of music and quality of the recording makes all the difference in the world. For my money, jazz recordings from ECM and Gondwana labels are some of the best out there. Most other genres of music sound too compressed to excite me, i.e. there's no space around the instruments/notes like you get from a carefully engineered jazz recording.
Build the gear yourself. My second pair of speakers, made up of the Raal 140-15D, Lowther DX 65, (2) Jordan 150 NG's/channel, the moving coils all loaded into 12 foot long waveguides, cost 4500 bucks, for the drivers. My two OTLs, monobloc, Class AB, 60Watts into 16 Ohms and a single ended Minibeast at 7 Watts, also into 16 Ohms, maybe 3+ grand. My Audio Note kit DAC a couple of grand. If you pay others to build your gear, you're paying what the market will demand. And the prices commanded today, are completely insane.
I think the reason is you’re too anxious about your equipment so that you can’t enjoy the music. Mood affects enjoyment of music than everything else. Go and listen to a much less costly music system in your best mood and you feel it’s sound better than your expensive system. You can throw more money to get what you want but you might not going to enjoy music, because you’re still searching for better experience and finding faults in the existing system. It’s psychological and thats how audio manufacturers and expensive audio accessory companies make money.
Great point. I also think that after the initial impact of an upgrade wears off, it’s easy to start finding faults with a system. Familiarity can result in the listener forgetting how their system sounded before the last upgrade so I think your advice of listening to familiar music on a less capable system makes sense. One alternative is to listen to an album that has not been played since the last upgrade as this will hopefully reveal how much better the system sounds, assuming that’s an option. I also agree that mood can have an effect. It can sometimes be a case of listening to the system rather the music, which I will admit to have been guilty of.
I wish I knew you intimately so you could inject wisdom into all the loved ones in my life! Thank you
As usual from paul some very keen insights as to how to solve a problem without dumping further unnecessary money into it
He forgot to turn off the Normalize loudness button in his streamer.
My question to this person would be, what kind of sound do you gravitate to or impresses you would it be sound of pro audio like a theater or concert type sound or is it more like upscale refined home audio?
None of those, he just wants to tell everybody he's spent £50k on hifi.
I often wonder if anybody just spends that sort of money and listens to the music, or do they have to tell everybody they can, which is what his letter is about. What a dick.
Get a vintage amp and speakers from the 70s for cheap and try that
Eq'ing your speaker might help get them how you like. Buying different speakers is often about the particular EQ. They might not be to your taste. But an EQ could be your saving grace.
This! My JBLs have exaggerated 250Hz so i cut that and got the sound i needed. I'll never part with them.
Change each item and A/B the gear.
I just bought a wildly raved about amp to replace the one I have...It is huge and gorgeous but did not live up to my other amp.
@1:01 "...ripped from CDs..."
Most digital content has sub-par sound quality. The better your stereo becomes, the more you hear how the studio personnel screwed up.
@1:04 "...and I buy original pressings of vinyl, whenever I can."
Most vinyl pressings have sub-par sound quality -- original pressings included (although originals are usually better). The better your stereo becomes, the more you hear how the studio personnel screwed up (or the pressing plant screwed up).
@1:15 "What do you recommend I should try?"
Verify that you did not mistakenly connect one of your speakers "out of phase". That can happen if you got your cables between your pre-amp and amp criss-crossed, or from your amp to your speaker criss-crossed (but the latter is not the case with active speakers -- however, the former could be your problem).
One of the store's installers did that to my right speaker, and it killed the sound quality.
Next, did you use good interconnects?
If you used mass produced, department store interconnects on a revealing stereo, then your revealing stereo will reveal the sound degradation caused by your crummy interconnects.
If you are using a mass produced USB cable anywhere for your digital content, that will wreck your sound quality.
Those USB cables are fine for printing and for computer hubs. But for DACs, they will bring any stereo to its knees. A quality Audioquest USB cable will do wonders for any stereo.
Same thing for power cords. At a minimum... for your DAC, use a quality power cord from Shunyata Research or Audioquest. DACs (or in your case your streamer, which contains a DAC) throw a lot of noise into the A/C line, and it leaks into the other components. All components will benefit from quality power cords. But the DAC is #1 for creating power-line noise. A quality power cord will virtually eliminate that noise, with no detrimental affect on the rest of the sound. I do not know how it accomplishes that task -- but it does.
Next: Speaker placement. It is critical to get your speakers positioned in their ideal location. And if the bass is wrong, due to the location or your room, then you will never be happy.
But as far as musical content is concerned, the vast majority of what the studios release (and what the pressing plants release) should qualify the customers for refunds. They rarely get it right. So it could just be that you are under the impression that with a great stereo you should hear great sound quality. That cannot happen when the songs you are playing has sub-par sound quality -- and most do.
Finally, if your turntable is not properly isolated (few are, even when their owners think that they isolated them), then you will have vibrations causing feedback. And when that feedback is not obvious, that is when it goes unaddressed. Put your turntable on a Townshend Scismic Isolation Platoform, and hear your soundstage blossom.
And did you professionally dial in every vector of your turntable / tone-arm / cartridge?
Misaligning any of the many vectors is akin to your car's tires rubbing up against the curb, or your car pulling to the left or right, or you steering wheel shaking, etc. You want your stylus to rub the groove exactly where it should be rubbing the groove, and nowhere else. Professionally dialing it in will do wonders for your vinyl playback.
But before spending more $money on anything, check that you do not have any cables criss-crossed (out of phase).
Cheers!
Interconnects can be bought for very little, and spending more does not improve SQ
@@johnholmes912 "Interconnects can be bought for very little, and spending more does not improve SQ"
Spend whatever you want.
If I purchase a $3 set of interconnects from Home Depot, and I sell them on eBay for $300, that did not make those interconnects any better.
But quality interconnect are better than mass produced interconnects, and will allow your stereo to sound its best.
Lesser quality interconnects will diminish your stereo's sound quality.
@@johnholmes912 "Interconnects can be bought for very little, and spending more does not improve SQ"
You wrote it on the internet. Therefore, it is true.
50 grand is nothing.... Quadruple it, so you can call yourself an apprentice of a junior audiofile! Just kidding, go with Paul's advice 😂
And that right there is the main problem!
The guy should have sent Paul a picture of his room. If I were asked the same question, I would have no clue.
What is missing is the addition of a few well places Shakti Stones. Shakti Stone is a subtle game changer. Add Shatki Stone into your system.
Hi Zack! I think before selling the speakers and "de-treating" the room you should buy a quality SUBWOOFER! That will change EVERYTHING ;) get the crossover correct and go from there ;)
Room or speakers... possibly, could also be the music he's selected.
My guess is it's to some extent related to the DSP in the speakers and their crossover. DSP is really good for technical appreciation of elements of the sound and perfect for pro-audio applications and home theater, where sound serves a primarily visual medium and the task of building a product respectively. In an 'audiophile' context it's capable of wowing for ten to twenty minutes but not so great for connecting to music (in my experience) because it renders the sound fake/plasticky/unreal/not emotionally engaging.
Spent some money on the ear doctor.
The first thing everyone should do is make sure their hearing is as it should be. If your hearing is diminished.....
Streaming is very rarely as good as cd or flac, the one cable I find changed the quality was the USB from computer to dac bog standard won't cut the mustard.
A digital cable either works or it doesn't
I'm guessing the deadness of the room and flat signal of passive speakers is where it's losing some excitement...get a pair of Horn speakers and wake that room up
Have you re recorded your outro music? Sounds cleaner today.
Wrong choice of speakers. That pair of speakers is monitor type. More than half of audiophiles will regret after acquiring this type of speakers after a while.
I think it might be either his ears or expectations.
I don’t get this: audiophiles that go separate everything (source, DAC, power conditioners, uber-expensive cables and interconects) and then use powered speakers! Just get a good integrated amp (or a pre &power) and try as many speakers as you can! Where I’m from, the law requires full refund for anything you bought online in a 30-days window.
Some great advice here!
Who is that company John Darko uses..... vicoustics. I think they would get the room right.
Sounds like the system is analytical
My experience with trying to find suitable studio monitors showed me that , for all the perfect accuracy and definition, I just could not get comfortable with the sound of digitally powered speakers. even cheaper brands with Solid state amplifiers just sounded beautiful to my ears. they breathed music, the digital sound sounded choked or something... weird...
I would say that the problem is "lack of education". We need to learn to listen BEFORE we start picking gear. We need to take advantage of home try out schemes.
Get rid of the active speakers..maybe.. components must work together.. wish I could see the room and setup.. my antique system sounds real and achieves concert levels in my sound room..for way less money..
Absorbtion helps very little, at certain places on walls it will kill imaging. Rip it all out.