Forklift mechanic here, a barbecue tank has NO dip tube, it is vapor only. If you run an engine for any amount of time it will freeze up and stop boiling the liquid to vapor in the tank. You can invert the tank to get liquid but this puts all the safety features of the cylinder out of play because the relief valve is not designed to flow liquid. Also the easier solution to connect to a barbecue cylinder would be to use the internal left hand thread fitting which is called a pol fitting, the same as many acetylene cylinders. If you want to fill your own forklift cylinders, contact your local propane supplier and have them deliver a 250 or 500 gallon tank to you with a "wet leg" on it to allow filling of portable cylinders by pressure differential. The savings per cylinder will be great and you can also use it to heat your shop.
My father was a propane service tech. We had a GMC sprint as a kid that ran off propane..had a 250lb cyl in the bed. It worked because he had the ability to fill and service it himself. For free
I'm going to add that when I was a forklift tech, I did have some vapor machines, but those vapor machines were all 20hp or less air-cooled engines. I suspect the other reason for liquid is that a vapor system can not keep up with higher hp demands. Keep in mind that I'm just spit balling here, and I could be very wrong. Please respectfully correct me if I am wrong.
Hey Tony. You need specifically what is called a "motor fuel tank". Tank is setup to run a gasoline engine with a liquid service valve. Your vaporizer will warm liquid and of course vaporize liquid propane. Be sure to use a 1/2" I.D. motor fuel line with a bursting pressure of 350 psi. The inside of this line is rubber lined with stainless steel braiding. The out is a durable fabric. I wouldn't trust a forklift cylinder brother. Motor fuel tank is heavier gauge steel and is also designed to pipe the relief valve outside vehicle. Not sure if you can do that with a forklift cylinder. 1 gallon of liquid propane vaporizes to 270 cubic feet of vapor, it's volatile as hell so don't cut corners. Bro, barbecue bottle's DO NOT HAVE A DIPTUBE RUNNING TO BOTTOM OF TANK, they are designed to supply barbecues with vapor only in the upright position.. You are scaring me!! When you flipped it upside down you exposed the bottom of service valve with liquid, and also the relief valve which is integrated into the service valve on barbecue and RV bottles, these both need to stay in the vapor space only or upright. The 5,7 and 10 gallon cylinder are vapor use only and used upright. You don't want the relief valve to open in an enclosed space while its spewing liquid!!! Relief valves are designed to be in the vapor space only to avoid a bleve! A bleve is : a boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion which is when a tank or bottles structure gives way.. Check with a mom and pop LP supplier that knows their stuff Tony. They may on top of guiding you with the right (safe components) guide you in safely securing motor fuel tank and piping the relief valve outside the vehicle as it needs to be! I've been a service tech for many years in residential applications but I have connections to help you if you can't get what you need. Bare in mind LP motor fuel tanks are designed to supply gas motors with liquid through their service valves. Also the relief valves specifically are set up for plumbing/venting vapor outside of vehicle. In addition the service valve, fill valve, and vapor relief have internal backchecks in case of being sheared off in an accident. Don't blow yourself up bro, this is safe but a volatile as hell animal when corners are cut.
@@FrankF-vp4pt curious the tank suplies liquid to the vaporizer but at some point doesnt the amount of propane reduce in presure enough to lift the liquid?? The vaporizer uses heat to turn to vapor so does that mean you need to have vaporizer lower than the tank to negate the presure at the tank to lift the liquid to the vaporizer? Or does the vaporizer in efect also cause a siphoning efect strong enough to lift the liquid ? Or is it just there is a common loss that under a certain pound of liquid you will have leftover liguid left.
In the vehicle tank, the pressure of the gas at ambient temperature pushes the liquid out, but only a little bit of the liquid will evaporate or boil in the tank, the vaporization is done in the engine coolant heated chamber. If you have a fitting on the tank with an orifice, the liquid will vaporize after the pressure reduction of the orifice, vaporization of liquid requires energy. If you dont supply heat at the point of vaporization , it will frost up as all the heat energy of the pipe is drawn off by the vaporization of the liquid. For the BBQ tank drawing large amounts of vapor, will frost up the whole tank but since it has a large surface area and can absorb ambient heat, they usually just get condensation, not ice. If you do flip the BBQ tank over and have a non-reducing fitting with no pressure loss, you won't freeze up the fitting or tank as you draw out the liquid. You can empty the tank of liquid much faster and with less cooling of the tank than emptying it of vapor. Eventually when you want to vaporize or use that liquid, you'll have to provide heat to keep that orifice from frosting up, unless you're doing some sort of flame effect, but the fire provides the heat to vaporize the liquid propane so it will burn.
Spot on Frank, on every point. Tony will get it worked out eventually. As he said, totally new to this. Lets just hope he finds out the important details early enough. I worked with the stuff in both household and automotive applications way back in the 90s.
@@tonypace2009 No need to have the vaporizer lower than the tank. (I've converted 2 vehicles and in both the tanks were lower than the vaporizers.) The pressure in the tank is there as long as there is any propane (varies with tank temp but only goes to zero PSI at -40 degrees if I remember correctly). The pressure in the tank can push the liquid propane uphill to the vaporizer and a valve (the first of 2) in the vaporizer opens to let enough liquid enter the vaporizer to keep a constant vapor pressure (very low compared to the pressure the liquid entering the vaporizer is under) between the vaporizer and the mixer (propane carb). No siphoning action required, just like a shop air compressor tank and line system: open a valve anywhere in the shop and air will shoot out.
As a refrigeration technician with over 30 years in the trade, the BBQ tank will leave you disappointed. That system you are running needs a liquid to run it, hence why there is a heater built into the regulator. Boiling the liquid into a gas allows a much larger volume to enter the engine mixer much faster. As a liquid changes phases from liquid to gas, it requires heat; This expands the liquid form to a gas for on an exponential amount. The reason for the forklift type tank allowing liquid out rather than gas is to prevent the evaporation in the cylinder of propane from freezing up and losing pressure. If you were to run a BBQ tank upright, the cylinder of propane requires heat to it to be able to vaporize the liquid propane into a gas. You will end up with a fuel cell with a lot of ice on it, and no pressure left to enter the regulator. This is why, in theory, people run bottle warmers on a nitrous cylinder.... To keep the pressure up. You need to run a propane cylinder with a dip tube to ensure liquid entering the fuel lines to be later vaporized in the heated regulator and fuel mixer. Having an average octane rating of propane around 108 is nice, but leaning the mixture out by low pressures is disastrous. This is one reason that those fittings are unavailable. That said, I had a 1983 ford van with a 460 propane engine. I could run a BBQ tank from a rigged up hose to the main tank. If driven over 50 miles an hour, I would lose power. Also the BBQ tank was white with frost. Hope this helps, and keep the great videos going!
@@martinadams7949 If you were to make a tee and have two or three tanks feed the system and have a proper or overside fuel piping it wouldn't frost as much. The frost came from the liquid propane boiling off to vapor at a fast rate by adding more tanks it would slow it down and run eaisier.
Roadkill Garage already took that name. Steve Dulcich's Barracuda was unfortunately caught in a California wild fire but he and Freiburger brought it back to life as the Barbecuda.
5:55 take another look at the guage, the top needle is for horizontal use, the bottom needle (in the red) is for vertical, pretty sure that it says the in the fine print. I havent been on a forklift in a while but im pretty sure thats how it goes
Either you are a genius at soliciting comments or you still have yet to learn why a BBQ tank won't work. Won't be long and the answer you thought was right will be replaced with the right answer. Love your channel. keep it up
Those gauges are meant for one specific tank orientation or another. Horizontal or vertical. An empty tank with a horizontal gauge will read half full in a vertical orientation. Tanks for both orientations have gauges for both orientations.
I've converted bbq tanks to liquid feed by removing the opd valve, removing the float, and attaching to it a copper draw straw which goes to the bottom of the tank. It makes them a bottom feeder instead of top feeder. You loose the safety which the opd valve provides by doing this, which is ok because it's only there to prevent over filling the tank while in vapor mode. Very Easy to do. If you want to use the bbq tank in stock vapor form, you have to heat the tank, and when you do that there's is no need to heat the regulator, because the cooling is coming from the point where lpg is turning into vapor. So, on liquid systems that point is the regulator, and on vapor systems that point is the tank. Then after you've made your modifications you'll find out you just lost 20% of your power by going away from gasoline because propane has much less BTUs. Good luck.
Thanks for the video Tony, glad to see you are moving forward with this! I converted 2 vehicles to propane in the 90's: a '73 302 Bronco and a '67 390 Mustang so I have some experience with this (I am in BC, Canada. Most taxis around here used to run on propane in those days.) A BBQ bottle is 'vapour out' and a vehicle bottle is 'liquid out'. In a vehicle, it is in what you called the regulator (I always called that the converter) that liquid propane is converted from liquid to a vapour. That is why regulators/converters tend to freeze up if they are not heated by the engine coolant: propane turning from a liquid to a vapour absorbs heat from its surroundings when changing to a vapour. BBQs don't need convertors as the propane changes to a vapour right in the BBQ bottle/tank. Ever notice that if you use a tiger torch or big BBQ on high for a while you can start to see frost on the outside of the tank. Anyhow, your regulator is expecting to see liquid propane entering it so you will need to arrange things accordingly (upside down BBQ bottle would do that although that comes with other issues so the forklift tank might end up being your best bet of those 2 options, but really, you should get a proper vehicle propane tank). I used an off the shelf vehicle tank for my Bronco and had one custom made for the Mustang. I am totally enjoying your propane project and really looking forward to seeing you light up the tires on that old car one day soon!
Used to be massive in the farm machinery back in the day. Nothing to crazy just got a little expensive so farmers switched back to diesel. Very efficient fuel source
Can you explain how you did this? This has me curious. What gear did you use? Did you still use a mixer and maybe I'm misunderstanding, are you running both fuels in tandem?
@@adrianzmajla4844 In theory, the best way to do it would be to somehow put the mixer on top of the primaries and then cut fuel only to them, leaving the secondaries alone. If the mixer is on top of everything, it has to be tuned to top at a certain rate of propane flow relative to the max air flow of the primaries, othewise the mixture will get too rich.
I refill the 1lb bottles at home from a 'BBQ tank' with a fill adapter. They need to be flipped over to get liquid and upright to get gas. I burp the purge valve on the 1lb tank until i get liquid out. I've also never seen a siphon tube in any of the older BBQ tanks i've cut open. There's probably hundreds of vids of makers cutting them open to make all kinds of stuff out of them, i've seen some buy a new never filled tank, and no tube when they're cut open.
I had to look this up. Advantages of Propane for Performance: 1. High Octane Rating: Propane has a high octane rating (around 104-110), which reduces the risk of engine knock and allows for higher compression ratios or more aggressive timing in forced-induction setups. 2. Cleaner Combustion: Propane burns cleaner than gasoline, reducing carbon deposits on engine components. This can enhance engine longevity and consistency in performance. 3. Cooling Effect: Propane enters the engine as a vapor, which can help reduce intake air temperatures and potentially increase power in turbocharged or supercharged setups.
One more being its a true gas it stays with the air charge better so not as pertinate to have straight intake runners as gasoline that tends to seperate from aircilom and go back to liguid. . Years ago saw a I think it was a 355 chevy make 700 horse on propane defitnly not nsturaly asperated though.
Number 3 is completely wrong . The prooane is vaporuzed before entering the engine so it then has zero cooling effect as opposed to gasoline that vapourises in the engine and cools the charge. At high power levels vapour propane creates cery high combustion temperatures and increases the chances of detonation despite its higher octane rating.
It also doesn't dilute the engine oil with fuel blow by. I owned a factory LPG Ford Falcon Ute in Oz. Not dual fuel. Another interesting thing is that the oil on the dipstick always looks like new. It never turns black, which is very deceptive. You have to keep an eye on the odometer to make sure you still change the oil regardless of how it looks on the dipstick. Range anxiety is real when you can't bum a ride with a jerry can to the nearest gas station if you run short or even carry jerry cans of fuel on a long remote trip. Fortunately the range display is very accurate on the LPG Ford. Two huge tanks gave pretty good range but because of infrequent fills one tended to forget. I've rolled into the gas station a few times with only 10km of range indicated 😰 It was really cheap to operate. That beautiful Barra engine made the ute a working man's sports car. It went like stink and drifted like mad 👍. Here, in SEA, they do dual fuel. Injected no less. Really nice mod, popular in Lexus gas guzzlers.
actually point 3 is incorrect: only if you can inject liquid propane will you have the cooling effect of the propane vaporizing at the point of injection, and from what i have read it is very difficult, if not impossible, to make injectors that will work reliably with liquid propane.
Uncle Tony, you've got it wrong. That(what your calling a regulator is actually a vaporizer) vaporizer needs liquid propane fed to it, the heater lines warm the propane causing it to vaporize and its fed to the carb through that large fuel hose. The reason is for enough flow to feed the engine. A barbecue tank doesn't have a siphon tube in it and will just feed vaporized propane as thats what a bbq and your heater require. The guys telling you to run the tank upside down are right. I ran a few propane vehicles, if we ever ran out we would (with a cheater hose that has the right adapters) use a bbq tank sitting upside down and either tie it into the hose running from the main tank or hook it direct to the vacuum operated valve/filter(4" round) that should be between the liquid propane feed line and the vaporizer. IMPCO put out a very good manual for these systems.
I have a cheater hose that is used to refill my main vehicle propane tank from a BBQ bottle. With that it essentially turns a BBQ bottle into a jerry can so if I run out of propane somewhere I can easily put the contents of a 20 pound BBQ bottle into my vehicle propane tank. I do have to hold the BBQ bottle upside down during that process though so that I am getting liquid out of the BBQ bottle, not vapor.
Never mind the naysayers. Whether the BBQ tank works well is not the point. It's a really good idea to keep both fittings in the car at least in case you run out of propane and need to get the car home running off of a BBQ tank. For that matter, you should keep a spare BBQ tank in the trunk for an emergency core exchange. I think you should preferentially use the forklift tank, but having options is the way to go.
hey Tony I am a school bus technician and we run a lot of our buses on propane . so yes for reasons of pickup tubes and orfice sizes the bbbq tank wont work. but more important is that motor fuel tank valves have double acting check valves at least on on road that stop the propane if a hose blows off. it is a good safety system . also for on road use an electric cut off valve is required to shut off the tank with the ignition motor fuel tanks often are made from thicker steel to meet impact standards bbq tanks are only built to the needed pressure requirements.
Back in the ‘70s we converted some of our 427 tall-deck tandem dump truck engines to propane. You need to run cooler plugs, hardened valve seats and a bit richer than when on gas because they run hotter and “drier”. Propane also has less energy so less power…it used to take me about 2 miles to get a loaded truck up to 50mph!
Love the propane project. When I was a kid we had an old 2 cylinder John Deere tractor that ran on propane and it was always the easiest starting best running and cleanest running tractor I’ve ever seen.
What has fascinated me since I found this out is that our can actually run engines on wood. It was a common thing at one time in Europe. Germans used it when their petrol production was bombed. It's called Wood Gas. Fascinating story. Pretty simple to do.
Oh Tony you are such a New Yorker lol. Watching this and we hear you say “just dickin around”, and I started cracking up. That is such a Long Island / Queens saying from way back in the day lol… 😂
EX automotive LPG fitter here, we would always use a BBQ cylinder to drive a freshly converted vehicle to the local filling station about a mile away. We had a hose that went from POL left hand thread to the fitting you have under the yellow cap on the forklift cylinder, thats the pump filler at the station. We inverted the BBQ cylinder in the trunk, some liquid then found its way into the main tank in the trunk and it gave us enough to drive to the station for the vehicles first fill. I see no reason you couldnt run on BBQ cylinders as long as liquid is being dispensed and you are aware of the safety comments below about the relief valve not being designed for liquid in the event of an emergency. BUT!! PLEASE PLEASE fit at least one shut off solenoid in the liquid line that is activated by either manifold vacuum or distributor pulses so that the gas supply is shut off when the engine is not running. In Australia we use two, one at tank and one just before the converter.
One issue with those older impco systems, is pressure, when you get too low in the tank, it may idle well, but crack the throttle and it will stumble. Good practice is to tune your mixer when you have half a tank or propane.
When u use walmart or a kiosk for ur propane, u only get 1/2 a bottle, propane weighs 6 pounds a gallon, ur grill bottle is a 30 pound bottle, its capasity is stamped on the handle, the kiosk states in a big stcker, net wt. 15 lbs
I just have to add you have to put 2 lock offs in one at the converter and one at the tank and you will need a suitable controller to recognise the ignition pulse to maintain power to the lock-offs Don’t Blow your self up 😊
Here in BC (al least when I converted my vehicles to propane 30 years ago) there is the one lock off close to the vaporizer (mine were operated by engine vacuum, not electric) and the tank valve actually had an overflow shutoff built into it (so if the line leading to the engine compartment got damaged and there was a huge rush of fuel out of the tank the tank valve closed automatically), but no second lock-off at the tank end.
Your answer is that a BBQ tank does not draw liquid propane. It is designed to draw vapor only. That piece of equuipment that you have plumbed into the propane carb. and has water lines plumbed into it is not a regulator. It is a converter and its purpose is to convert the liquid porpane into vapor and ther-in gives you a sufficient amount of vapor propane to run your engine without starving it under full throttle. Propane systems are very simple, but one needs to know some basics up front. I ran my pickup on propane and gas at the same time just by flipping a switch from one fuel over to the other whenever I needed to. So I could carry 22 gal. of gas and 50 gal of LP for longer trips and could always find stations. The point of liquid propane bottles only verses BBQ is that the liquid flow bottles are meant for motor fuel only. That is why the different size filler fittings. I also vonverted my dads Imperial over to dual fuels and he loved it.
I have used a acetylene pressure regulator on a bar b q tank for cutting on a oxy acetylene torch. You can't weld but you can cut with it and it bolts right on. Reverse thread of course.
Yep. It's a cheap alternative to acetylene. I've done it. It works great. BTW, you CAN weld with it too. Done that as well, but I admit it isn't as good.
shop I worked at had a propane cutting torch too, but it had a proper made-for-propane regulator on it. We used 100 pound propane bottles and a good size oxygen cylinder.
Instead of the external, right-hand thread on a BBQ connector, did you try looking for the internal left-hand thread adapter? BBQ tanks have both. They use RH external threads knowing most homeowners would be stumped by a LH thread - but the tanks are filled using the internal femal LH threads.
I hope you take advantage of the experience shared by helpful people in the comments, because I don't want you to barbecue yourself, but one way or another I'm just stoked to be getting content about the Hankmobile again. I can't wait to see it doing propane powered burnouts!
Good evening, I just watched your video on the propane project. AWESOME ! I worked for over 30 years as a Forklift tech. Propane systems are a huge part of what kept food on the table not just mine but for most Americans. It has moved products and fed millions all over the globe. At this time I am driving a 1971 Opel GT that I converted to propane over 3 years ago. I drive it several times a week and have driven over 15.000 miles since the installation. I run ( 2);20 lb BBQ tanks in my car and they are mounted upsidedown. The standard BBQ tank is designed to provide only vapor right side up. The LPG evaporator is designed to use only liquid on the high pressure (inlet) side of the unit. I'm guessing the check valve inside the tank you used is stuck, plugged or a different design all together. The reason for your line to freeze up was due to the expansion of the gas at that point, kinda like the air conditioner expansion valve. Keep with it, I love the simplicity and reliability of the Impco systems. Your power loss can be helped by increasing engine compression and advance ignition timing. Love your channel!
Here in brazil we have a bunch of vehicles running on propane from household tanks, but mainly at remote rural areas, as it is illegal here. Our propane tanks are refilled by distributors on specific equipment, so they have no level valve inside. We do it mainly in two different ways: Using normal automotive propane equipment with the tank pointing down at an angle to extract the liquid phase and stop rust and dirt particles from the tank from getting into the fuel line; or using modified household regulators with the tank upright to extract the gaseous phase and then heating it by putting it inside the engine compartment, cutting a hole through the bottom of the trunk and putting the tank in contact with the exhaust muffler, or putting the tank into some sort of special nest made with copper tubes with coolant running through it.
propane icing up the line is the liquid propane coming out of the bbq bottle. if you're using the bbq bottle in its normal upright position, you'll be using propane vapor. The logic with propane is LPG and LPV. You can fit a propane bbq hose or an adapter hose to the bbq bottle and open the valve. When the bottle is upright, you won't see the gas coming out of the valve. But when you invert the bottle, you'll see the liquid propane coming out of the valve. That's when you'll see the line ice up. I got my propane dispensing ticket back in 2006. I've also been doing all my own propane servicing on RVs and vans for 17 years. I've also worked on a few propane conversion vehicles since I was 14 years old. This video is great Tony! I'm glad you're trying some things out with propane as an eco friendly fuel alternative. I was hoping to see the engine start up and run a bit. I've often thought about using a bbq bottle to run or limp an engine after it runs out of gas. I knew a few people who used to do dirt track racing with some old beater cars and they were using propane injection as a really cheap alternative to using nitrous injection to win races 😅. They raced everything from old K cars to racing lawnmowers. I've also run lawnmowers using a propane torch adapted to the carburetor once the gas tank is empty and it actually works. What I also like is that you can lug an engine at really low rpms on propane without fouling sparkplugs. a cold engine will start up at low idle on propane without using the choke and high idle unlike gas that takes a minute for the fuel to vaporize.
Ha, I just put a new LP regulator in my RV two weeks ago, its got a Marshall excelsior fitting. I thought it was a nipple and sawed it off. Ordered a new on off ebay, but the new regulator had one built in, so I have a spare.
Its a journey of discovery for you, just be careful, propane is heavier than air, if your workshop isnt well ventilated, it can build up on the floor and is an explosion hazard. Im enjoying your videos Tony, keep it up!
I acknowledge this is old-hat for so many but this subject fascinates me. I think especially since changing the oil in a forklift and noticing the distinct smell of the oil. Weigh your tank and subtract the tare weight (TW) of the tank.
Hi Tony - I drove my 302W Falcon for 20 years and 120000miles on LPG (AUstralian name) my second falcon has done 30000 mile so far! We are now having the supply of LPG for cars and trucks etc reduced so it is very hard to buy it many places!! A great fuel, clean, cheap and with the right tune it was just as good a petrol!! We even had buses in the public bus system using it for a few years. Politics and the greenies probably have taken this fuel from us for the future despite having huge amounts of it in this country!!!
Wait till he discovers shaking the half empty tank really good before a pull to disperse the cold with the warmer top of the tank gives a .01 better ET lol.
Been there. Not propane but your story in general is something I’ve gone through several times. I’m excited about this propane project. Can’t wait to see the results.
Shout out to ALL of the parts folks that know how to read parts catalogs and know where to find them in the building!! You are all heroes to those of us that keep old iron and tissue paper (like my Hondas) running!
Hey Tony. So on on the good fuel heh? Propane is brilliant, I run a 351 Cleveland on a sequel vapour injection (EFI) on my 1934 Ford roadster, Giddy up! We also run LS on sequential liquid injection. Propane, Bbq gas v gas for your car. General rule, always use bbq gas which is 100% propane and vapourises at -40c Gas for your car can be a blend of propane and butane which might only vaporiser at 0 degrees C. PS. You are using good fundermental equipment for what you are doing. Try giving IMPCO technologies as a starting point for your hardware and fittings. Have been doing this in Australia for 35 years. Love your channel. Terry
I used to drive charter buses... had a contract to take a group out to the factory in the styx. Used the propane powered Ford F550 bus, 26 pax. Made SURE there was a propane dealer, the one we used at the yard, near our destination so I could refill. Short story: He didn't have the right adapter to fill my bus!! I'm nearly empty, and in the Styx. You aren't allowed to refill those tanks side of the road, so you'd have to tow it 200 miles to get back. AND send a rescue bus. Sigh. Small town U-Haul shop had an old guy with rope for a belt in the back. Had to use like three adapters to get there, but he could do it; saved our Bacon. To this day, when I go to a new shop, I'm lookin' for that old retired farmer in the back. With my old cars, I NEED him! :D
I grew up in the city, but I have always had great respect for the farmers. Some of them are pretty smart. Their work might not look the best, but they know how to get things done.
I carry a propane like one would carry a gas can and can fill my truck in an emergency. Your fuel fill fitting should be the same as an RV fill and should be on the adapter shelf.
I'd add to the many good comments here BBQ tanks are for sure liquid, that's why your BBQ can be connected to natural gas lines (with a few mods) If liquid came out it would be a flame thrower. You can run engines and they do sell VAPOR kits. Usually, small air-cooled engines will use vapor systems. With no good way to convert the liquid to gas they just use vapor, it works. Running Vapor limits your fuel input. A vapor system like any gas is limited by the pipe size and the boil-off rate with propane. So yes it works on small stuff just fine a big V8 not so much. The ice you see when using propane is a result of the liquid boiling off to gas. This is exactly how air conditioning works. I have been away from this stuff for quite a while, but now that BBQ tank have all these fancy unneeded "improvements", I was under the impression that the tanks were supposed to shut off when turned over using the overfill vale float thing?
Like others have said, The propane mixer is designed to have liquid propane delivered to it. A 20 lb propane tank will freeze up when the rate of usage is to high and gas pressure will drop. I run a 20 lb tank on my forge and it starts loosing pressure in less than 10 minutes. I love owning a lathe because when I need a weird fitting I can just make one. Instead of driving around all day in search of undomesticated ornithopters.
The gauge on your propane tank has two scales. One for when the tank is vertical, one when horizontal. It’s most accurate when horizontal - laying down it uses the “Empty to Full” scale. Standing up it uses the vertical “OK-Add-OK” scale. A bathroom scale is the best way to monitor your fuel. The tank will have the empty “TW” - tare weight - stamped hear the handle. Many places can refill these - check Tractor Supply, U-Haul, welding supply stores, campgrounds, RV dealers.
the reason the hose was freezing is that now the liquid was flowing into the hose and vaporizing inside the hose, hence the hose was getting cold. If the liquid is boiling inside the tank, it pulls heat from the entire tank and so doesn't get noticeably cold.
Tony, as many have mentioned, running a vehicle engine from a propane grill tank will be problematic. Several reasons all of which someone has probably mentioned. One, the pressure in the tank is dependent on the liquid boiling off. The surface area of the liquid will be small with the BBQ tank= slower pressure recovery. The Impco regulator is built for liquid propane, it will run on vapor but the flow will be too low for your needs. The more fuel drawn, the cooler the tank, the cooler the tank, the slower the boil off. The current BBQ tanks also have a safety valve that will shut down the flow if the flow gets too high. Think of it as if the hose blew.
I was fitting Impco kits to V8s and large 6cyinders down here in New Zealand 40 years ago, the government at that time subsidized the conversions...we also had lavato(and others) Italian kits for smaller cars. Been a small country we had filling stations everywhere but mostly gone now.
Propane on an engine larger than lawn mower sizes requires liquid propane. Grills and stuff in houses use vapor. You need a part called a converter sized for your engine in addition to the mixer. The converter is heated with coolant and that keeps it from freezing up, it converts the liquid to vapor. You need a tank with a liquid line, so you want the kind that are used on forklifts. Also need to make sure all the hoses/lines are rated for liquid pressures. You'll likely want a filter on it too, they make inline filters. You'll need to make sure the lines are all big enough for the fuel rate you will use, if they're too small they can cause flow restrictions that will let fuel start vaporizing in the lines and it will freeze up like an a/c line. Won't hurt anything but the flow may drop too low. I used to build 200hp generators and we could run one on a half inch line that was about 50ft long but we could get freezing in places at full power just to give you an idea. We built the generators to run dual fuel with natural gas and propane and a 50kw generator averaging around 45 or 50 hp, as I can recall, would use up a 250 gallon tank in something like 4 days or maybe 3. Be prepared to burn some bottles.
Ha ha this reminds me of my brother looking at my car wondering why the pedal was hard and seeing a button on my steering wheel asking if it had nos I said no it's for off roading and propane
There is an adapter hose you can buy so you can use a BBq tank to put propane into the main tank. You connect the hose from the BBq tank to your Fuel filler port, holding the BBq tank up side down, open the vent on the vehicle and then the valve on the BBq tank. IF you leave the BBq tank in the sun to warm up the process can go a bit quicker. I have used this before and it works just fine, although it could be a little hard on your paint job. Propane being heavier than air it could concentrate in the lowest point, therefore some apartment buildings in my area will not allow propane powered vehicles park in the underground.
Back in the around 1982, 83 I remember the Mt Lebanon Twp. Police dept. where I lived as a kid started running the new M body Plymouth Gran Furys equipped with 318 four barrel engines. Shortly after each of these newly purchased cars were placed in service, they were converted to run on propane by the mechanics at the municipal garage. I was only 13 years old at the time and being a motorhead with an affinity toward MOPARs these late model police spec. 4 barrel 318 Plymouths became a curiosity of mine. I later learned that the propane conversion kit installed on these cars actually retained the original throttle plate of the Thermoquad (electronic feedback) carb. The propane fuel delivery specific components were mounted to the throttle plate. The factory typical larger diameter 16" single snorkle air cleaner was retained and pretty much covered up everything propane related and gave no visual indication of propane power when the hood was lifted. However..when these cars would leave the police station under hard acceleration coming up the hill past my parents house sometimes they would backfire/spit through the carb a few times before smoothing out. Additionally the propane equipped cars lacked the WOT "Thermoquad howl" and sounded kinda flat. The pre converted cars sounded and ran noticeably better. I had several occasions to see under the hoods of those propane converted Plymouths and on each one, the air cleaner lid looked ballooned upward, sort of the opposite of a ballooned muffler, from a severe exhaust backfire and had that round indentation in the center for the wingnut pounded flat like with a hammer. I don't know if it was from those chronic backfires out the intake and the mechanics did some sheet metal repairs or this crude flattening was done to accommodate the propane conversion components. I know It wasn't done to be able to flip the air cleaner lid for more "power"😅 When the Twp started using Ford LTDs with the 351 HO in 1984 they converted them to propane. Those had an open element air cleaner as part of the installation. The propane conversion on the Fords seemed to be more sorted out. Interestingly, when the cars were taken out of service to be sold at auction, the municipal garage crew removed all the propane specific components/tank from inside the trunk, etc and restored them with the previously removed carburetors, fuel lines, etc. Chrysler and Ford offered factory installed propane fueled systems as well as retro fit kits. Although I was just a kid I became good friends with a few of the police officers in that department. Alot of them were motorheads. 72 Duster 340, slightly rusty w/ gray primer 69 Hurst Olds 442, were some of the cars in the police dept employee parking lot. Officer Bill Adams had a 68 Charger RT at the time back then. I had a ratty 71 Charger with a 383. It wasn't uncommon for him while he was at the end of his shift returning to the station to stop and give me a hand on a hot and humid summer late afternoon while I installed a cam, changed out valve springs, or attempted to patch up rusted sheet metal or delete a lean burn spark controller outside in my parents narrow driveway just off the street. Trying to beat nightfall or a impending rain storm (trying to keep falling/blowing leaves out of a disassembled engine). The neighbors would see a patrol car in the driveway and think one of us kids was in trouble. This was back in the early 80s. More than a few of those fellas got on the job upon returning from Viatnam less than a decade prior.
forklift technician as well. Barbecue tank wont-work with your fuel system. It is a vapor tank, not a liquid tank. You can get liquid out of them when flipped upside down, but the valve itself will become a restriction, hence turning into an orifice. like an ac system. It won't flow enough LP to supply the motor without freezing up. Also, ask yourself this. Why does the fuel system on your car. You need to have coolant running through it to not freeze up, But on your barbecue grill.You don't. Propane is one of the best refrigerants you can get for air conditioners. But with its flammable nature, we just don't use them in cars. God forbid you had a leak in the evaporator and you light a smoke
Proane as an automotive fuel used to be really common in Canada - in every instance i encountered where the vaporizer had a 1/4" feed, the inverted flare connection was the same one as your Tiger Torch (roofing/weed torch you might call them?) - so a hose off of one of those is direct fit on both ends to run a vehicle with a barbecue tank, one of my old beater yard trucks runs on propane and this setup has been working for years
You’re going to get a portable afr gauge to tune it properly as well they’re pretty easy to make and you can use it on any car as you are sampling out of the tail pipe
Here in Europe some people use a special adapter to fill BBQ tanks at gas station. Bit of a grey area because fill station is only meant for filling cars but hey, it works.
Uncle Tony, Just an FYI. Info about hot rods and propane I have from the 80's is that one benefit of running propane is that they respond well to higher compression ratios. 13-14 to one is the norm and can go as high as 17-18 to 1. Just throwing that out there...🤓
Sorry if you are running a 425 have a look in the vapour receiving port and make sure that the restrictor plate has been removed as these were made for stationary engines
If anyone is interested in making their own inexpensive propane system for their car and isn't concerned with ultimate power the forklift set-ups are like a quarter the price as Tony's four barrel set-up. You need the carb, the lock-off/filter, and the regulator and a few fittings and hoses. $300-$400 plus the tank...buy Impco brand.
Uncle Tony I wished I had known you needed the adapter, as I had a 1/4 hard line with the ends you needed on it. The odd thing is about that hard line, is it was soldiered in place to the male fitting with a nut over it on both ends of the hard line. It came off my 1954 Spartan, and I still have the BBQ tank fittings without the regulator for a Colman camp stove.
I have a dodge full size van running only on propane. A few years ago my mixer diaphragm ( gasket ) leaked . Rebuilt it and in the process reversed the hot water inlet to the mixer. Started the motor and within 2 minutes the mixer turned into ice. Removed the hoses back in order and Voila ! been working fine for more than 4 years now.
One place you can look for LP info is tractor forums. In the 1950's through the 70's, several tractor manufacturers sold propane powered tractors. They were popular in Nebraska, Colorado, most of the southwest. Minneapolis Moline had many LP tractors, and several guys do sled pulling competitions with LP. It takes well to boosted applications as well.
It would be cool if if you could mount two of those with some kind of a valve in between so if the one runs out, you just switch over to a second tank.
Tony look at the reg on your heater ! It has the fitting you need . They unscrew and you could have adapted that one ! i`ve taken them off for use a lot ! Thanks !
Tony, my work truck I drive everyday runs on LP. I live in MICHIGAN. If I can answer any questions for ya just reach out. As far as your fitting, im 99.9% sure I can get your adapter made up for you. Without changing over your hose. Just thread onto your BBQ tank and thread into your existing large tank fitting. Again, just let me know
I've used propane forklifts and small bottle heaters and such, and I assumed they all used the gas above the liquid. My backpack stove holds the bottle on a 30° tilt. I'm confused. Do forklifts or car conversions run on the liquid only?
Depends, you vapor withdrawal and liquid withdrawal. Vapor is what is used on BBQ fire pits or small generators . Liquid is usually on larger vehicles like cars and buses . Liquid allows for better flow at high pressure without boiling. If really want have some fun put some liquid propane in a jar . You can throw matches in it all day long and it won't burn until it boils and vaporized. Stuff is actually safer than gasoline.
A BBQ tank will not supply the volume you need to the regulator/carb. There's a reason they aren't used. Minneapolis Moline used propane on tractors for years and today it's used in antique tractor pulling. First time LP tractor pullers are always running into these problems. Talk to Wilson Machine in West End, NC. He will know exactly the how AND the why.
Tony, I used to work at a place called 'Liquid Air' in the 70's. Part of my job was to test and change out valves on high pressure cylinders, Oxy, Nitrous Oxide, Argon and the like. I just thought I'd leave changing valves here as another possibility if all else fails.
Tony, another thing to consider... your engine requires gaseous propane to operate properly. A propane cylinder has both liquid and gaseous propane inside. As you withdraw gaseous propane from the cylinder, the cylinder needs heat from the outside to convert the remaining liquid to gas. If you withdraw the gas too fast and the cylinder can't get enough heat from somewhere,, the cylinder pressure begins to drop and therefore the withdrawl rate begins to drop. The immediate signs you see are 1.) the outside of the cylinder begins to condense moisture on the sides of the cylinder and where the condensation line stops, that is the top of the liquid level in the cylinder. 2.) If the gaseous withdrawl rate from the cylinder is too high, you will see frost appear on the cylinder outside wall. Again the frost level will show the top of the liquid level. That is why the larger the cylinder or tank, the larger the withdrawl rate the tank can handle. A 1000 gallon propane tank can handle a much larger withdrawl rate because on all the extra tank surface area available to draw heat into the tank. My advice would be to install a pressure guage between the propane cylinder and the "carburetor" on the engine. You will see a pressure drop if the propane cylinder can't keep up with the demand.
There is an issue with modern barbecue tanks. There is a "safety valve" that blocks the flow if it senses that there is nothing attached to the tank. This protects against a severed hose or damaged burner. It can be triggered if the tank is bounced too hard. It is easy to reset but I don't think it would work in a dragster.
That heater hose thing is a vaporizer, it vaporizes liquid propne from the tank. BBQs tanks put out vapor, if you try to draw a lot of vapor out of tank, like for a big heater, or an engine the tank will "freeze up". Literally gets so cold with the vapor boiling off itll get to a point where no vapor comes out. Might work for you, but im thinking it won't. To get a lot of vapor out of those tanks, like for a big heater, you need to run multiple little tanks, or something like a 500 gallon tank like you use gor a furnace in a house.
I dont even think you need the big tanks,they are 50lbs, the forklift ones, and a bbq tank is 20lbds, if you have 3 bbq tanks in the back. Switch from one to another or have them in parallel. You would get 20% more range than a single forklift tank. Add tge convenience of tank exchange, you could probably do sick week on 3 tanks in rotation. 😂😂😂
Propane burns so clean, you'll never see a dot of carbon in the engine, your plugs will look like new. You'll have to make note ahead of time to change the oil because it will be crystal clear for ever.
The tall tank you have is a forklift cylinder. If you lay it on its side with the center guage numbers reading upright, you will get liquid fuel until the tank goes empty. Those tanks dont work correctly standing upright.
Tony, search OPD valve on those BBQ tanks. There is a float just like for the fuel gauge in a car. It prevents the tank from being overfilled as well as shuts off gas if it is not in the upright position to stop liquid from getting out of the tank. I worked at a filling station when the feds required the OPD valves and we were certified to replace the valves.
We get that you're learning from scratch Tony. That's why we veterans on the stuff, are trying to give you tips, to speed up the learning process on the basics. Oh, and that gauge will never read correct with the cylinder standing. It's a float setup, and after any real amount of liquid is removed from the tank, it will read half, because the float is just dangling vertically, down the middle, or half way point of the tank. I used to 10 year test them, and had every component removed to do so.
The gauge only reads when its horizontal. Yes the tank will work both ways. If you look at the gauge with your good glasses, the top half says horizontal, and the bottom half says vertical. The needle on the bottom half of your gauge is in the red "fill" zone.
I’ve noticed that the prefilled propane bbq tanks at my local stores are not accurately filled. So I started to bring my tanks to a gas station that fills tanks. The price is cheaper and I actually get what I’m paying for by the pound.
Forklift mechanic here, a barbecue tank has NO dip tube, it is vapor only. If you run an engine for any amount of time it will freeze up and stop boiling the liquid to vapor in the tank. You can invert the tank to get liquid but this puts all the safety features of the cylinder out of play because the relief valve is not designed to flow liquid. Also the easier solution to connect to a barbecue cylinder would be to use the internal left hand thread fitting which is called a pol fitting, the same as many acetylene cylinders. If you want to fill your own forklift cylinders, contact your local propane supplier and have them deliver a 250 or 500 gallon tank to you with a "wet leg" on it to allow filling of portable cylinders by pressure differential. The savings per cylinder will be great and you can also use it to heat your shop.
I was just about to post about how he needs to talk to a forklift tech
Just saved me a long type ! 👍
My generator runs off of a regular BBQ tank, it gets pretty frosty while it's in use.
My father was a propane service tech. We had a GMC sprint as a kid that ran off propane..had a 250lb cyl in the bed. It worked because he had the ability to fill and service it himself. For free
I'm going to add that when I was a forklift tech, I did have some vapor machines, but those vapor machines were all 20hp or less air-cooled engines. I suspect the other reason for liquid is that a vapor system can not keep up with higher hp demands. Keep in mind that I'm just spit balling here, and I could be very wrong. Please respectfully correct me if I am wrong.
It is not a "learning curve" -- it is a learning helix. You progress from one end to the other but also go in circles. And THANKS Uncle Tony.
Hey Tony. You need specifically what is called a "motor fuel tank". Tank is setup to run a gasoline engine with a liquid service valve. Your vaporizer will warm liquid and of course vaporize liquid propane. Be sure to use a 1/2" I.D. motor fuel line with a bursting pressure of 350 psi. The inside of this line is rubber lined with stainless steel braiding. The out is a durable fabric. I wouldn't trust a forklift cylinder brother. Motor fuel tank is heavier gauge steel and is also designed to pipe the relief valve outside vehicle. Not sure if you can do that with a forklift cylinder. 1 gallon of liquid propane vaporizes to 270 cubic feet of vapor, it's volatile as hell so don't cut corners. Bro, barbecue bottle's DO NOT HAVE A DIPTUBE RUNNING TO BOTTOM OF TANK, they are designed to supply barbecues with vapor only in the upright position.. You are scaring me!! When you flipped it upside down you exposed the bottom of service valve with liquid, and also the relief valve which is integrated into the service valve on barbecue and RV bottles, these both need to stay in the vapor space only or upright. The 5,7 and 10 gallon cylinder are vapor use only and used upright. You don't want the relief valve to open in an enclosed space while its spewing liquid!!! Relief valves are designed to be in the vapor space only to avoid a bleve! A bleve is : a boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion which is when a tank or bottles structure gives way.. Check with a mom and pop LP supplier that knows their stuff Tony. They may on top of guiding you with the right (safe components) guide you in safely securing motor fuel tank and piping the relief valve outside the vehicle as it needs to be! I've been a service tech for many years in residential applications but I have connections to help you if you can't get what you need. Bare in mind LP motor fuel tanks are designed to supply gas motors with liquid through their service valves. Also the relief valves specifically are set up for plumbing/venting vapor outside of vehicle. In addition the service valve, fill valve, and vapor relief have internal backchecks in case of being sheared off in an accident. Don't blow yourself up bro, this is safe but a volatile as hell animal when corners are cut.
Amen, brother!
@@FrankF-vp4pt curious the tank suplies liquid to the vaporizer but at some point doesnt the amount of propane reduce in presure enough to lift the liquid??
The vaporizer uses heat to turn to vapor so does that mean you need to have vaporizer lower than the tank to negate the presure at the tank to lift the liquid to the vaporizer? Or does the vaporizer in efect also cause a siphoning efect strong enough to lift the liquid ?
Or is it just there is a common loss that under a certain pound of liquid you will have leftover liguid left.
In the vehicle tank, the pressure of the gas at ambient temperature pushes the liquid out, but only a little bit of the liquid will evaporate or boil in the tank, the vaporization is done in the engine coolant heated chamber. If you have a fitting on the tank with an orifice, the liquid will vaporize after the pressure reduction of the orifice, vaporization of liquid requires energy. If you dont supply heat at the point of vaporization , it will frost up as all the heat energy of the pipe is drawn off by the vaporization of the liquid. For the BBQ tank drawing large amounts of vapor, will frost up the whole tank but since it has a large surface area and can absorb ambient heat, they usually just get condensation, not ice. If you do flip the BBQ tank over and have a non-reducing fitting with no pressure loss, you won't freeze up the fitting or tank as you draw out the liquid. You can empty the tank of liquid much faster and with less cooling of the tank than emptying it of vapor. Eventually when you want to vaporize or use that liquid, you'll have to provide heat to keep that orifice from frosting up, unless you're doing some sort of flame effect, but the fire provides the heat to vaporize the liquid propane so it will burn.
Spot on Frank, on every point. Tony will get it worked out eventually. As he said, totally new to this. Lets just hope he finds out the important details early enough. I worked with the stuff in both household and automotive applications way back in the 90s.
@@tonypace2009 No need to have the vaporizer lower than the tank. (I've converted 2 vehicles and in both the tanks were lower than the vaporizers.) The pressure in the tank is there as long as there is any propane (varies with tank temp but only goes to zero PSI at -40 degrees if I remember correctly). The pressure in the tank can push the liquid propane uphill to the vaporizer and a valve (the first of 2) in the vaporizer opens to let enough liquid enter the vaporizer to keep a constant vapor pressure (very low compared to the pressure the liquid entering the vaporizer is under) between the vaporizer and the mixer (propane carb). No siphoning action required, just like a shop air compressor tank and line system: open a valve anywhere in the shop and air will shoot out.
Now that Paul Harrell is at peace, Uncle Tony is my go-to. Absolutely love this channel. UTG is the goat.
Where a man belongs
As a refrigeration technician with over 30 years in the trade, the BBQ tank will leave you disappointed. That system you are running needs a liquid to run it, hence why there is a heater built into the regulator. Boiling the liquid into a gas allows a much larger volume to enter the engine mixer much faster. As a liquid changes phases from liquid to gas, it requires heat; This expands the liquid form to a gas for on an exponential amount. The reason for the forklift type tank allowing liquid out rather than gas is to prevent the evaporation in the cylinder of propane from freezing up and losing pressure. If you were to run a BBQ tank upright, the cylinder of propane requires heat to it to be able to vaporize the liquid propane into a gas. You will end up with a fuel cell with a lot of ice on it, and no pressure left to enter the regulator. This is why, in theory, people run bottle warmers on a nitrous cylinder.... To keep the pressure up. You need to run a propane cylinder with a dip tube to ensure liquid entering the fuel lines to be later vaporized in the heated regulator and fuel mixer. Having an average octane rating of propane around 108 is nice, but leaning the mixture out by low pressures is disastrous. This is one reason that those fittings are unavailable. That said, I had a 1983 ford van with a 460 propane engine. I could run a BBQ tank from a rigged up hose to the main tank. If driven over 50 miles an hour, I would lose power. Also the BBQ tank was white with frost. Hope this helps, and keep the great videos going!
Correct
@@fuzzyfireman1 while running a forge to do hot rivets rebuilding steam locomotive, we would put the propane tank in a water bath to heat it.
@@martinadams7949 If you were to make a tee and have two or three tanks feed the system and have a proper or overside fuel piping it wouldn't frost as much. The frost came from the liquid propane boiling off to vapor at a fast rate by adding more tanks it would slow it down and run eaisier.
HVAC knowledge but w/ a fireman handle
@67L-88 wasn't much if a problem, old blacksmith guy was only one I saw do this. At my shop we had big tall bottle fire in forge never was effected.
Oh man if that car where a barracuda the perfect name would've "the barbecuda"
Driven by Barbie, herself!
Roadkill already had that car and name not on propane but it went through a fire
😂😂😂
Roadkill Garage already took that name. Steve Dulcich's Barracuda was unfortunately caught in a California wild fire but he and Freiburger brought it back to life as the Barbecuda.
5:55 take another look at the guage, the top needle is for horizontal use, the bottom needle (in the red) is for vertical, pretty sure that it says the in the fine print. I havent been on a forklift in a while but im pretty sure thats how it goes
LQTM
(Laughing Quietly To Myself)
Either you are a genius at soliciting comments or you still have yet to learn why a BBQ tank won't work. Won't be long and the answer you thought was right will be replaced with the right answer. Love your channel. keep it up
Those gauges are meant for one specific tank orientation or another. Horizontal or vertical. An empty tank with a horizontal gauge will read half full in a vertical orientation.
Tanks for both orientations have gauges for both orientations.
That's all true and in my experience (mostly with old junk) you have a 90% chance the gauge doesn't work or is completely inaccurate. ;)
I've converted bbq tanks to liquid feed by removing the opd valve, removing the float, and attaching to it a copper draw straw which goes to the bottom of the tank. It makes them a bottom feeder instead of top feeder. You loose the safety which the opd valve provides by doing this, which is ok because it's only there to prevent over filling the tank while in vapor mode. Very Easy to do. If you want to use the bbq tank in stock vapor form, you have to heat the tank, and when you do that there's is no need to heat the regulator, because the cooling is coming from the point where lpg is turning into vapor. So, on liquid systems that point is the regulator, and on vapor systems that point is the tank. Then after you've made your modifications you'll find out you just lost 20% of your power by going away from gasoline because propane has much less BTUs. Good luck.
Thanks for the video Tony, glad to see you are moving forward with this! I converted 2 vehicles to propane in the 90's: a '73 302 Bronco and a '67 390 Mustang so I have some experience with this (I am in BC, Canada. Most taxis around here used to run on propane in those days.)
A BBQ bottle is 'vapour out' and a vehicle bottle is 'liquid out'. In a vehicle, it is in what you called the regulator (I always called that the converter) that liquid propane is converted from liquid to a vapour. That is why regulators/converters tend to freeze up if they are not heated by the engine coolant: propane turning from a liquid to a vapour absorbs heat from its surroundings when changing to a vapour. BBQs don't need convertors as the propane changes to a vapour right in the BBQ bottle/tank. Ever notice that if you use a tiger torch or big BBQ on high for a while you can start to see frost on the outside of the tank.
Anyhow, your regulator is expecting to see liquid propane entering it so you will need to arrange things accordingly (upside down BBQ bottle would do that although that comes with other issues so the forklift tank might end up being your best bet of those 2 options, but really, you should get a proper vehicle propane tank). I used an off the shelf vehicle tank for my Bronco and had one custom made for the Mustang.
I am totally enjoying your propane project and really looking forward to seeing you light up the tires on that old car one day soon!
Used to be massive in the farm machinery back in the day. Nothing to crazy just got a little expensive so farmers switched back to diesel. Very efficient fuel source
Yup, Diesels are typically around 30% more efficient than the gasser counterpart in the same vehicle.
Running LP Gas through the primaries of a spreadbore and petrol through the secondaries. Had over 20 years of use from it.
Can you explain how you did this? This has me curious. What gear did you use? Did you still use a mixer and maybe I'm misunderstanding, are you running both fuels in tandem?
@@adrianzmajla4844 In theory, the best way to do it would be to somehow put the mixer on top of the primaries and then cut fuel only to them, leaving the secondaries alone.
If the mixer is on top of everything, it has to be tuned to top at a certain rate of propane flow relative to the max air flow of the primaries, othewise the mixture will get too rich.
Stick the torpedo heater out the back like the Batmobile 😂
Just a tip, where the line freezes up is where the liquid is. So if the line freezes up when the tank is upside down it does not have a siphoon tube
Do small (1 pound) bottles have a siphon tube?
I refill the 1lb bottles at home from a 'BBQ tank' with a fill adapter. They need to be flipped over to get liquid and upright to get gas. I burp the purge valve on the 1lb tank until i get liquid out. I've also never seen a siphon tube in any of the older BBQ tanks i've cut open. There's probably hundreds of vids of makers cutting them open to make all kinds of stuff out of them, i've seen some buy a new never filled tank, and no tube when they're cut open.
@@LuigiAzsassin no.
Invert the bottle for liquid.
I had to look this up. Advantages of Propane for Performance:
1. High Octane Rating: Propane has a high octane rating (around 104-110), which reduces the risk of engine knock and allows for higher compression ratios or more aggressive timing in forced-induction setups.
2. Cleaner Combustion: Propane burns cleaner than gasoline, reducing carbon deposits on engine components. This can enhance engine longevity and consistency in performance.
3. Cooling Effect: Propane enters the engine as a vapor, which can help reduce intake air temperatures and potentially increase power in turbocharged or supercharged setups.
One more being its a true gas it stays with the air charge better so not as pertinate to have straight intake runners as gasoline that tends to seperate from aircilom and go back to liguid. . Years ago saw a I think it was a 355 chevy make 700 horse on propane defitnly not nsturaly asperated though.
Number 3 is completely wrong . The prooane is vaporuzed before entering the engine so it then has zero cooling effect as opposed to gasoline that vapourises in the engine and cools the charge.
At high power levels vapour propane creates cery high combustion temperatures and increases the chances of detonation despite its higher octane rating.
It also doesn't dilute the engine oil with fuel blow by.
I owned a factory LPG Ford Falcon Ute in Oz. Not dual fuel.
Another interesting thing is that the oil on the dipstick always looks like new. It never turns black, which is very deceptive. You have to keep an eye on the odometer to make sure you still change the oil regardless of how it looks on the dipstick.
Range anxiety is real when you can't bum a ride with a jerry can to the nearest gas station if you run short or even carry jerry cans of fuel on a long remote trip. Fortunately the range display is very accurate on the LPG Ford. Two huge tanks gave pretty good range but because of infrequent fills one tended to forget. I've rolled into the gas station a few times with only 10km of range indicated 😰
It was really cheap to operate. That beautiful Barra engine made the ute a working man's sports car. It went like stink and drifted like mad 👍.
Here, in SEA, they do dual fuel. Injected no less. Really nice mod, popular in Lexus gas guzzlers.
actually point 3 is incorrect: only if you can inject liquid propane will you have the cooling effect of the propane vaporizing at the point of injection, and from what i have read it is very difficult, if not impossible, to make injectors that will work reliably with liquid propane.
@@edbeeinnv It's been done in europe using original GDI injectors
Uncle Tony, you've got it wrong. That(what your calling a regulator is actually a vaporizer) vaporizer needs liquid propane fed to it, the heater lines warm the propane causing it to vaporize and its fed to the carb through that large fuel hose. The reason is for enough flow to feed the engine. A barbecue tank doesn't have a siphon tube in it and will just feed vaporized propane as thats what a bbq and your heater require. The guys telling you to run the tank upside down are right. I ran a few propane vehicles, if we ever ran out we would (with a cheater hose that has the right adapters) use a bbq tank sitting upside down and either tie it into the hose running from the main tank or hook it direct to the vacuum operated valve/filter(4" round) that should be between the liquid propane feed line and the vaporizer. IMPCO put out a very good manual for these systems.
Yeah, what he said.
I have a cheater hose that is used to refill my main vehicle propane tank from a BBQ bottle. With that it essentially turns a BBQ bottle into a jerry can so if I run out of propane somewhere I can easily put the contents of a 20 pound BBQ bottle into my vehicle propane tank. I do have to hold the BBQ bottle upside down during that process though so that I am getting liquid out of the BBQ bottle, not vapor.
Heating the source tank will accelerate the transfer, as the pressure at the heated tank will be slightly higher, pushing the liquid.
Better get ahold of Hank Hill for propane and propane accessories hahaha
Came to the comments for THIS
Never mind the naysayers. Whether the BBQ tank works well is not the point. It's a really good idea to keep both fittings in the car at least in case you run out of propane and need to get the car home running off of a BBQ tank. For that matter, you should keep a spare BBQ tank in the trunk for an emergency core exchange. I think you should preferentially use the forklift tank, but having options is the way to go.
That positive can-do attitude And sheer determination to destroy the system, and get what you want not what they are selling😂👌🍻🍻 18:14
hey Tony I am a school bus technician and we run a lot of our buses on propane . so yes for reasons of pickup tubes and orfice sizes the bbbq tank wont work. but more important is that motor fuel tank valves have double acting check valves at least on on road that stop the propane if a hose blows off. it is a good safety system . also for on road use an electric cut off valve is required to shut off the tank with the ignition motor fuel tanks often are made from thicker steel to meet impact standards bbq tanks are only built to the needed pressure requirements.
Back in the ‘70s we converted some of our 427 tall-deck tandem dump truck engines to propane. You need to run cooler plugs, hardened valve seats and a bit richer than when on gas because they run hotter and “drier”. Propane also has less energy so less power…it used to take me about 2 miles to get a loaded truck up to 50mph!
Propane in the membrane 🎼
Going insane, got no brain 🎵
Propane in the membrane 🎶
Love the propane project. When I was a kid we had an old 2 cylinder John Deere tractor that ran on propane and it was always the easiest starting best running and cleanest running tractor I’ve ever seen.
What has fascinated me since I found this out is that our can actually run engines on wood. It was a common thing at one time in Europe. Germans used it when their petrol production was bombed. It's called Wood Gas. Fascinating story. Pretty simple to do.
Oh Tony you are such a New Yorker lol. Watching this and we hear you say “just dickin around”, and I started cracking up. That is such a Long Island / Queens saying from way back in the day lol… 😂
My auto shop teacher in the 80’s, in Illinois, used to tell us to quit dickin’ around.
Howdy neighbor
That still is a common expression up here in Saskatchewan, Canada. Has been for a couple of generations. We have rednecks too.
not just NY. used to hear that frequently here on the west coast as well.
EX automotive LPG fitter here, we would always use a BBQ cylinder to drive a freshly converted vehicle to the local filling station about a mile away. We had a hose that went from POL left hand thread to the fitting you have under the yellow cap on the forklift cylinder, thats the pump filler at the station. We inverted the BBQ cylinder in the trunk, some liquid then found its way into the main tank in the trunk and it gave us enough to drive to the station for the vehicles first fill. I see no reason you couldnt run on BBQ cylinders as long as liquid is being dispensed and you are aware of the safety comments below about the relief valve not being designed for liquid in the event of an emergency.
BUT!! PLEASE PLEASE fit at least one shut off solenoid in the liquid line that is activated by either manifold vacuum or distributor pulses so that the gas supply is shut off when the engine is not running. In Australia we use two, one at tank and one just before the converter.
One issue with those older impco systems, is pressure, when you get too low in the tank, it may idle well, but crack the throttle and it will stumble.
Good practice is to tune your mixer when you have half a tank or propane.
When u use walmart or a kiosk for ur propane, u only get 1/2 a bottle, propane weighs 6 pounds a gallon, ur grill bottle is a 30 pound bottle, its capasity is stamped on the handle, the kiosk states in a big stcker, net wt. 15 lbs
You should be able to find some Impco suppliers around there for god’s sake use a ignition cut-off unit to activate the lock-off
I just have to add you have to put 2 lock offs in one at the converter and one at the tank and you will need a suitable controller to recognise the ignition pulse to maintain power to the lock-offs
Don’t Blow your self up 😊
Here in BC (al least when I converted my vehicles to propane 30 years ago) there is the one lock off close to the vaporizer (mine were operated by engine vacuum, not electric) and the tank valve actually had an overflow shutoff built into it (so if the line leading to the engine compartment got damaged and there was a huge rush of fuel out of the tank the tank valve closed automatically), but no second lock-off at the tank end.
Your answer is that a BBQ tank does not draw liquid propane. It is designed to draw vapor only. That piece of equuipment that you have plumbed into the propane carb. and has water lines plumbed into it is not a regulator. It is a converter and its purpose is to convert the liquid porpane into vapor and ther-in gives you a sufficient amount of vapor propane to run your engine without starving it under full throttle. Propane systems are very simple, but one needs to know some basics up front. I ran my pickup on propane and gas at the same time just by flipping a switch from one fuel over to the other whenever I needed to. So I could carry 22 gal. of gas and 50 gal of LP for longer trips and could always find stations. The point of liquid propane bottles only verses BBQ is that the liquid flow bottles are meant for motor fuel only. That is why the different size filler fittings. I also vonverted my dads Imperial over to dual fuels and he loved it.
I have used a acetylene pressure regulator on a bar b q tank for cutting on a oxy acetylene torch. You can't weld but you can cut with it and it bolts right on. Reverse thread of course.
Yep. It's a cheap alternative to acetylene. I've done it. It works great. BTW, you CAN weld with it too. Done that as well, but I admit it isn't as good.
shop I worked at had a propane cutting torch too, but it had a proper made-for-propane regulator on it. We used 100 pound propane bottles and a good size oxygen cylinder.
Instead of the external, right-hand thread on a BBQ connector, did you try looking for the internal left-hand thread adapter?
BBQ tanks have both. They use RH external threads knowing most homeowners would be stumped by a LH thread - but the tanks are filled using the internal femal LH threads.
I hope you take advantage of the experience shared by helpful people in the comments, because I don't want you to barbecue yourself, but one way or another I'm just stoked to be getting content about the Hankmobile again. I can't wait to see it doing propane powered burnouts!
Good evening, I just watched your video on the propane project. AWESOME ! I worked for over 30 years as a Forklift tech. Propane systems are a huge part of what kept food on the table not just mine but for most Americans. It has moved products and fed millions all over the globe. At this time I am driving a 1971 Opel GT that I converted to propane over 3 years ago. I drive it several times a week and have driven over 15.000 miles since the installation. I run ( 2);20 lb BBQ tanks in my car and they are mounted upsidedown. The standard BBQ tank is designed to provide only vapor right side up. The LPG evaporator is designed to use only liquid on the high pressure (inlet) side of the unit. I'm guessing the check valve inside the tank you used is stuck, plugged or a different design all together. The reason for your line to freeze up was due to the expansion of the gas at that point, kinda like the air conditioner expansion valve. Keep with it, I love the simplicity and reliability of the Impco systems. Your power loss can be helped by increasing engine compression and advance ignition timing. Love your channel!
Here in brazil we have a bunch of vehicles running on propane from household tanks, but mainly at remote rural areas, as it is illegal here. Our propane tanks are refilled by distributors on specific equipment, so they have no level valve inside. We do it mainly in two different ways: Using normal automotive propane equipment with the tank pointing down at an angle to extract the liquid phase and stop rust and dirt particles from the tank from getting into the fuel line; or using modified household regulators with the tank upright to extract the gaseous phase and then heating it by putting it inside the engine compartment, cutting a hole through the bottom of the trunk and putting the tank in contact with the exhaust muffler, or putting the tank into some sort of special nest made with copper tubes with coolant running through it.
propane icing up the line is the liquid propane coming out of the bbq bottle. if you're using the bbq bottle in its normal upright position, you'll be using propane vapor. The logic with propane is LPG and LPV. You can fit a propane bbq hose or an adapter hose to the bbq bottle and open the valve. When the bottle is upright, you won't see the gas coming out of the valve. But when you invert the bottle, you'll see the liquid propane coming out of the valve. That's when you'll see the line ice up. I got my propane dispensing ticket back in 2006. I've also been doing all my own propane servicing on RVs and vans for 17 years. I've also worked on a few propane conversion vehicles since I was 14 years old. This video is great Tony! I'm glad you're trying some things out with propane as an eco friendly fuel alternative. I was hoping to see the engine start up and run a bit. I've often thought about using a bbq bottle to run or limp an engine after it runs out of gas. I knew a few people who used to do dirt track racing with some old beater cars and they were using propane injection as a really cheap alternative to using nitrous injection to win races 😅. They raced everything from old K cars to racing lawnmowers. I've also run lawnmowers using a propane torch adapted to the carburetor once the gas tank is empty and it actually works. What I also like is that you can lug an engine at really low rpms on propane without fouling sparkplugs. a cold engine will start up at low idle on propane without using the choke and high idle unlike gas that takes a minute for the fuel to vaporize.
Ha, I just put a new LP regulator in my RV two weeks ago, its got a Marshall excelsior fitting. I thought it was a nipple and sawed it off. Ordered a new on off ebay, but the new regulator had one built in, so I have a spare.
Man, that's super cool!!!! I can't wait to see it as a driver. I understand about learning new things daily, the suspense is killing me, lol!!!
Its a journey of discovery for you, just be careful, propane is heavier than air, if your workshop isnt well ventilated, it can build up on the floor and is an explosion hazard.
Im enjoying your videos Tony, keep it up!
Uncle Tony is the Best mopar guy around .....ive learned alot about my 65 dart from watching Thankyou for all the great advise....
I acknowledge this is old-hat for so many but this subject fascinates me. I think especially since changing the oil in a forklift and noticing the distinct smell of the oil.
Weigh your tank and subtract the tare weight (TW) of the tank.
Distinct smell is being kind, they STINK!
The mercaptan goes straight into the oil
Hi Tony - I drove my 302W Falcon for 20 years and 120000miles on LPG (AUstralian name) my second falcon has done 30000 mile so far! We are now having the supply of LPG for cars and trucks etc reduced so it is very hard to buy it many places!! A great fuel, clean, cheap and with the right tune it was just as good a petrol!! We even had buses in the public bus system using it for a few years. Politics and the greenies probably have taken this fuel from us for the future despite having huge amounts of it in this country!!!
Wait till he discovers shaking the half empty tank really good before a pull to disperse the cold with the warmer top of the tank gives a .01 better ET lol.
I usually slosh the tank to tell how full it is. Big momentum means fairly full, little slosh means getting close to empty, and no slosh is empty.
Been there. Not propane but your story in general is something I’ve gone through several times.
I’m excited about this propane project. Can’t wait to see the results.
Shout out to ALL of the parts folks that know how to read parts catalogs and know where to find them in the building!! You are all heroes to those of us that keep old iron and tissue paper (like my Hondas) running!
Hey Tony.
So on on the good fuel heh?
Propane is brilliant, I run a 351 Cleveland on a sequel vapour injection (EFI) on my 1934 Ford roadster, Giddy up!
We also run LS on sequential liquid injection.
Propane,
Bbq gas v gas for your car.
General rule, always use bbq gas which is 100% propane and vapourises at -40c
Gas for your car can be a blend of propane and butane which might only vaporiser at 0 degrees C.
PS. You are using good fundermental equipment for what you are doing.
Try giving IMPCO technologies as a starting point for your hardware and fittings.
Have been doing this in Australia for 35 years.
Love your channel.
Terry
I used to drive charter buses... had a contract to take a group out to the factory in the styx. Used the propane powered Ford F550 bus, 26 pax. Made SURE there was a propane dealer, the one we used at the yard, near our destination so I could refill. Short story: He didn't have the right adapter to fill my bus!! I'm nearly empty, and in the Styx. You aren't allowed to refill those tanks side of the road, so you'd have to tow it 200 miles to get back. AND send a rescue bus. Sigh.
Small town U-Haul shop had an old guy with rope for a belt in the back. Had to use like three adapters to get there, but he could do it; saved our Bacon. To this day, when I go to a new shop, I'm lookin' for that old retired farmer in the back. With my old cars, I NEED him! :D
I grew up in the city, but I have always had great respect for the farmers. Some of them are pretty smart. Their work might not look the best, but they know how to get things done.
I carry a propane like one would carry a gas can and can fill my truck in an emergency. Your fuel fill fitting should be the same as an RV fill and should be on the adapter shelf.
THANKS for all the work on the LPG front!
I'd add to the many good comments here
BBQ tanks are for sure liquid, that's why your BBQ can be connected to natural gas lines (with a few mods) If liquid came out it would be a flame thrower.
You can run engines and they do sell VAPOR kits. Usually, small air-cooled engines will use vapor systems. With no good way to convert the liquid to gas they just use vapor, it works.
Running Vapor limits your fuel input. A vapor system like any gas is limited by the pipe size and the boil-off rate with propane. So yes it works on small stuff just fine a big V8 not so much.
The ice you see when using propane is a result of the liquid boiling off to gas. This is exactly how air conditioning works.
I have been away from this stuff for quite a while, but now that BBQ tank have all these fancy unneeded "improvements", I was under the impression that the tanks were supposed to shut off when turned over using the overfill vale float thing?
The line freezing when it's upside down means it's moving liquid propane that is vaporizing in the line, not vapor from the tank
Like others have said, The propane mixer is designed to have liquid propane delivered to it. A 20 lb propane tank will freeze up when the rate of usage is to high and gas pressure will drop. I run a 20 lb tank on my forge and it starts loosing pressure in less than 10 minutes. I love owning a lathe because when I need a weird fitting I can just make one. Instead of driving around all day in search of undomesticated ornithopters.
The gauge on your propane tank has two scales. One for when the tank is vertical, one when horizontal. It’s most accurate when horizontal - laying down it uses the “Empty to Full” scale. Standing up it uses the vertical “OK-Add-OK” scale. A bathroom scale is the best way to monitor your fuel. The tank will have the empty “TW” - tare weight - stamped hear the handle. Many places can refill these - check Tractor Supply, U-Haul, welding supply stores, campgrounds, RV dealers.
the reason the hose was freezing is that now the liquid was flowing into the hose and vaporizing inside the hose, hence the hose was getting cold. If the liquid is boiling inside the tank, it pulls heat from the entire tank and so doesn't get noticeably cold.
Tony, as many have mentioned, running a vehicle engine from a propane grill tank will be problematic. Several reasons all of which someone has probably mentioned. One, the pressure in the tank is dependent on the liquid boiling off. The surface area of the liquid will be small with the BBQ tank= slower pressure recovery. The Impco regulator is built for liquid propane, it will run on vapor but the flow will be too low for your needs. The more fuel drawn, the cooler the tank, the cooler the tank, the slower the boil off. The current BBQ tanks also have a safety valve that will shut down the flow if the flow gets too high. Think of it as if the hose blew.
There’s an adapter you can get to use the BarBQ tank.
I bought exactly that fitting a few months ago on Ebay, searched for POL to MIP/FIP in the right diameter and had it in a few days.
I was fitting Impco kits to V8s and large 6cyinders down here in New Zealand 40 years ago, the government at that time subsidized the conversions...we also had lavato(and others) Italian kits for smaller cars. Been a small country we had filling stations everywhere but mostly gone now.
Propane on an engine larger than lawn mower sizes requires liquid propane. Grills and stuff in houses use vapor. You need a part called a converter sized for your engine in addition to the mixer. The converter is heated with coolant and that keeps it from freezing up, it converts the liquid to vapor. You need a tank with a liquid line, so you want the kind that are used on forklifts. Also need to make sure all the hoses/lines are rated for liquid pressures. You'll likely want a filter on it too, they make inline filters. You'll need to make sure the lines are all big enough for the fuel rate you will use, if they're too small they can cause flow restrictions that will let fuel start vaporizing in the lines and it will freeze up like an a/c line. Won't hurt anything but the flow may drop too low. I used to build 200hp generators and we could run one on a half inch line that was about 50ft long but we could get freezing in places at full power just to give you an idea.
We built the generators to run dual fuel with natural gas and propane and a 50kw generator averaging around 45 or 50 hp, as I can recall, would use up a 250 gallon tank in something like 4 days or maybe 3. Be prepared to burn some bottles.
Really digging the propane setup and research, is a twin mixer tunnel ram setup on the calendar?
Ha ha this reminds me of my brother looking at my car wondering why the pedal was hard and seeing a button on my steering wheel asking if it had nos I said no it's for off roading and propane
There is an adapter hose you can buy so you can use a BBq tank to put propane into the main tank. You connect the hose from the BBq tank to your Fuel filler port, holding the BBq tank up side down, open the vent on the vehicle and then the valve on the BBq tank. IF you leave the BBq tank in the sun to warm up the process can go a bit quicker. I have used this before and it works just fine, although it could be a little hard on your paint job.
Propane being heavier than air it could concentrate in the lowest point, therefore some apartment buildings in my area will not allow propane powered vehicles park in the underground.
That’s great UT, the parts man at the RV place is the man of the hour, hats off to him! 😇
Back in the around 1982, 83 I remember the Mt Lebanon Twp. Police dept. where I lived as a kid started running the new M body Plymouth Gran Furys equipped with 318 four barrel engines. Shortly after each of these newly purchased cars were placed in service, they were converted to run on propane by the mechanics at the municipal garage. I was only 13 years old at the time and being a motorhead with an affinity toward MOPARs these late model police spec. 4 barrel 318 Plymouths became a curiosity of mine. I later learned that the propane conversion kit installed on these cars actually retained the original throttle plate of the Thermoquad (electronic feedback) carb. The propane fuel delivery specific components were mounted to the throttle plate. The factory typical larger diameter 16" single snorkle air cleaner was retained and pretty much covered up everything propane related and gave no visual indication of propane power when the hood was lifted. However..when these cars would leave the police station under hard acceleration coming up the hill past my parents house sometimes they would backfire/spit through the carb a few times before smoothing out. Additionally the propane equipped cars lacked the WOT "Thermoquad howl" and sounded kinda flat. The pre converted cars sounded and ran noticeably better. I had several occasions to see under the hoods of those propane converted Plymouths and on each one, the air cleaner lid looked ballooned upward, sort of the opposite of a ballooned muffler, from a severe exhaust backfire and had that round indentation in the center for the wingnut pounded flat like with a hammer. I don't know if it was from those chronic backfires out the intake and the mechanics did some sheet metal repairs or this crude flattening was done to accommodate the propane conversion components. I know It wasn't done to be able to flip the air cleaner lid for more "power"😅 When the Twp started using Ford LTDs with the 351 HO in 1984 they converted them to propane. Those had an open element air cleaner as part of the installation. The propane conversion on the Fords seemed to be more sorted out. Interestingly, when the cars were taken out of service to be sold at auction, the municipal garage crew removed all the propane specific components/tank from inside the trunk, etc and restored them with the previously removed carburetors, fuel lines, etc. Chrysler and Ford offered factory installed propane fueled systems as well as retro fit kits. Although I was just a kid I became good friends with a few of the police officers in that department. Alot of them were motorheads. 72 Duster 340, slightly rusty w/ gray primer 69 Hurst Olds 442, were some of the cars in the police dept employee parking lot. Officer Bill Adams had a 68 Charger RT at the time back then. I had a ratty 71 Charger with a 383. It wasn't uncommon for him while he was at the end of his shift returning to the station to stop and give me a hand on a hot and humid summer late afternoon while I installed a cam, changed out valve springs, or attempted to patch up rusted sheet metal or delete a lean burn spark controller outside in my parents narrow driveway just off the street. Trying to beat nightfall or a impending rain storm (trying to keep falling/blowing leaves out of a disassembled engine). The neighbors would see a patrol car in the driveway and think one of us kids was in trouble. This was back in the early 80s. More than a few of those fellas got on the job upon returning from Viatnam less than a decade prior.
forklift technician as well. Barbecue tank wont-work with your fuel system. It is a vapor tank, not a liquid tank. You can get liquid out of them when flipped upside down, but the valve itself will become a restriction, hence turning into an orifice. like an ac system. It won't flow enough LP to supply the motor without freezing up.
Also, ask yourself this. Why does the fuel system on your car. You need to have coolant running through it to not freeze up, But on your barbecue grill.You don't. Propane is one of the best refrigerants you can get for air conditioners. But with its flammable nature, we just don't use them in cars. God forbid you had a leak in the evaporator and you light a smoke
Proane as an automotive fuel used to be really common in Canada - in every instance i encountered where the vaporizer had a 1/4" feed, the inverted flare connection was the same one as your Tiger Torch (roofing/weed torch you might call them?) - so a hose off of one of those is direct fit on both ends to run a vehicle with a barbecue tank, one of my old beater yard trucks runs on propane and this setup has been working for years
You’re going to get a portable afr gauge to tune it properly as well they’re pretty easy to make and you can use it on any car as you are sampling out of the tail pipe
Here in Europe some people use a special adapter to fill BBQ tanks at gas station. Bit of a grey area because fill station is only meant for filling cars but hey, it works.
Uncle Tony, Just an FYI. Info about hot rods and propane I have from the 80's is that one benefit of running propane is that they respond well to higher compression ratios. 13-14 to one is the norm and can go as high as 17-18 to 1. Just throwing that out there...🤓
My Pop used to say “Didn’t know. Didn’t even suspect!”
The easiest way for you to solve the fitting problem is to scrap the propane altogether and convert it to gasoline. Good luck.
Sorry if you are running a 425 have a look in the vapour receiving port and make sure that the restrictor plate has been removed as these were made for stationary engines
If anyone is interested in making their own inexpensive propane system for their car and isn't concerned with ultimate power the forklift set-ups are like a quarter the price as Tony's four barrel set-up. You need the carb, the lock-off/filter, and the regulator and a few fittings and hoses. $300-$400 plus the tank...buy Impco brand.
Uncle Tony I wished I had known you needed the adapter, as I had a 1/4 hard line with the ends you needed on it. The odd thing is about that hard line, is it was soldiered in place to the male fitting with a nut over it on both ends of the hard line. It came off my 1954 Spartan, and I still have the BBQ tank fittings without the regulator for a Colman camp stove.
I have a dodge full size van running only on propane. A few years ago my mixer diaphragm ( gasket ) leaked . Rebuilt it and in the process reversed the hot water inlet to the mixer. Started the motor and within 2 minutes the mixer turned into ice. Removed the hoses back in order and Voila ! been working fine for more than 4 years now.
One place you can look for LP info is tractor forums. In the 1950's through the 70's, several tractor manufacturers sold propane powered tractors. They were popular in Nebraska, Colorado, most of the southwest. Minneapolis Moline had many LP tractors, and several guys do sled pulling competitions with LP. It takes well to boosted applications as well.
I had a neighbor that drove a S-10 pickup with BBQ tanks all the time. Mind you he did mount it upright.
It would be cool if if you could mount two of those with some kind of a valve in between so if the one runs out, you just switch over to a second tank.
Tony look at the reg on your heater ! It has the fitting you need . They unscrew and you could have adapted that one ! i`ve taken them off for use a lot ! Thanks !
Tony, my work truck I drive everyday runs on LP. I live in MICHIGAN. If I can answer any questions for ya just reach out. As far as your fitting, im 99.9% sure I can get your adapter made up for you. Without changing over your hose. Just thread onto your BBQ tank and thread into your existing large tank fitting. Again, just let me know
I've used propane forklifts and small bottle heaters and such, and I assumed they all used the gas above the liquid. My backpack stove holds the bottle on a 30° tilt. I'm confused. Do forklifts or car conversions run on the liquid only?
Depends, you vapor withdrawal and liquid withdrawal. Vapor is what is used on BBQ fire pits or small generators . Liquid is usually on larger vehicles like cars and buses . Liquid allows for better flow at high pressure without boiling. If really want have some fun put some liquid propane in a jar . You can throw matches in it all day long and it won't burn until it boils and vaporized. Stuff is actually safer than gasoline.
A BBQ tank will not supply the volume you need to the regulator/carb. There's a reason they aren't used. Minneapolis Moline used propane on tractors for years and today it's used in antique tractor pulling. First time LP tractor pullers are always running into these problems. Talk to Wilson Machine in West End, NC. He will know exactly the how AND the why.
Had a fridge. Bought a new bottle, pulled out the valve and welded a hook to the existing tube. Put back together. Viola. LPG
Tony, I used to work at a place called 'Liquid Air' in the 70's. Part of my job was to test and change out valves on high pressure cylinders, Oxy, Nitrous Oxide, Argon and the like. I just thought I'd leave changing valves here as another possibility if all else fails.
Tony, another thing to consider... your engine requires gaseous propane to operate properly. A propane cylinder has both liquid and gaseous propane inside. As you withdraw gaseous propane from the cylinder, the cylinder needs heat from the outside to convert the remaining liquid to gas. If you withdraw the gas too fast and the cylinder can't get enough heat from somewhere,, the cylinder pressure begins to drop and therefore the withdrawl rate begins to drop. The immediate signs you see are 1.) the outside of the cylinder begins to condense moisture on the sides of the cylinder and where the condensation line stops, that is the top of the liquid level in the cylinder. 2.) If the gaseous withdrawl rate from the cylinder is too high, you will see frost appear on the cylinder outside wall. Again the frost level will show the top of the liquid level. That is why the larger the cylinder or tank, the larger the withdrawl rate the tank can handle. A 1000 gallon propane tank can handle a much larger withdrawl rate because on all the extra tank surface area available to draw heat into the tank.
My advice would be to install a pressure guage between the propane cylinder and the "carburetor" on the engine. You will see a pressure drop if the propane cylinder can't keep up with the demand.
There is an issue with modern barbecue tanks. There is a "safety valve" that blocks the flow if it senses that there is nothing attached to the tank. This protects against a severed hose or damaged burner. It can be triggered if the tank is bounced too hard. It is easy to reset but I don't think it would work in a dragster.
Glad to see that you are doing research on this topic !
Ya, cool experience, and that you were able to relate it.
That heater hose thing is a vaporizer, it vaporizes liquid propne from the tank. BBQs tanks put out vapor, if you try to draw a lot of vapor out of tank, like for a big heater, or an engine the tank will "freeze up". Literally gets so cold with the vapor boiling off itll get to a point where no vapor comes out.
Might work for you, but im thinking it won't. To get a lot of vapor out of those tanks, like for a big heater, you need to run multiple little tanks, or something like a 500 gallon tank like you use gor a furnace in a house.
I dont even think you need the big tanks,they are 50lbs, the forklift ones, and a bbq tank is 20lbds, if you have 3 bbq tanks in the back. Switch from one to another or have them in parallel. You would get 20% more range than a single forklift tank. Add tge convenience of tank exchange, you could probably do sick week on 3 tanks in rotation. 😂😂😂
You should install a gas grill in the trunk. Lol
Propane burns so clean, you'll never see a dot of carbon in the engine, your plugs will look like new. You'll have to make note ahead of time to change the oil because it will be crystal clear for ever.
Pressurized Vessels Inspector here.
Remember Propane Boils @ -40…
The tall tank you have is a forklift cylinder. If you lay it on its side with the center guage numbers reading upright, you will get liquid fuel until the tank goes empty. Those tanks dont work correctly standing upright.
Tony, search OPD valve on those BBQ tanks. There is a float just like for the fuel gauge in a car. It prevents the tank from being overfilled as well as shuts off gas if it is not in the upright position to stop liquid from getting out of the tank. I worked at a filling station when the feds required the OPD valves and we were certified to replace the valves.
OPD stands for overfill protection device
You can identify the OPD valve by the triangle shaped knob.
Mr. Dopey McDopins is back at it again.
We get that you're learning from scratch Tony. That's why we veterans on the stuff, are trying to give you tips, to speed up the learning process on the basics. Oh, and that gauge will never read correct with the cylinder standing. It's a float setup, and after any real amount of liquid is removed from the tank, it will read half, because the float is just dangling vertically, down the middle, or half way point of the tank. I used to 10 year test them, and had every component removed to do so.
Buy an RV horizontal propene tank and install it in the trunk? They come in many sizes and configurations.
The gauge only reads when its horizontal. Yes the tank will work both ways.
If you look at the gauge with your good glasses, the top half says horizontal, and the bottom half says vertical. The needle on the bottom half of your gauge is in the red "fill" zone.
I’ve noticed that the prefilled propane bbq tanks at my local stores are not accurately filled. So I started to bring my tanks to a gas station that fills tanks. The price is cheaper and I actually get what I’m paying for by the pound.