unfortunately I agree with Pokke, vertical investment is not even a guarantee of your character staying usefull anymore. After getting Aventurine this rerun, I don't think I'll pull for older characters or sig LC ever again, just new units, e0s0, save for the next new unit that's gonna powercreep the one I just pulled
Ive been doing that since 1.1, mostly due to my playstyle, just explore new teams and i enjoyed it, and only vertical investing in teams that I like the most
its kinda depends on the vertical investment... if the vertical investment translate into the unit going to be more useful in more scenarios for their E1 and arguably E2.. rather than just simply bigger personal damage or solving personal flaws.. in a sense its both "vertical and horizontal".. its only a few countable cases tho..
@@discreaminantI was running him with March hunt e2? pela with pearls and huohuo and he’s doing fine I don’t think he needs his premium team to do good numbers
I still use my free Ratio a lot, he can still dish out the damage to stay competitive his main weakness is just his kit demands more specific requirements of his teammates than FX. Both him in Acheron suffer the same problem where they require debuffs in a game that as of the current meta appears hell bent on making the buffers better amplifiers than the debuffers.
They aren't raising difficulty, they're balancing the game. Follow up and break have fully synergistic limited 5 star teams, the game would be a joke if they didn't increase hp. Everyone would easily be able to 0 cycle with Feixiao or Firefly on auto and at that point the game has no endgame content, it's all a joke.
@@sct77I fail to see where this is balancing when they release Feixiao who has nuclear damage even with her F2P friendly team. With her premium team it’s overkill. It’s power creep, simple as that. They’re inflating numbers all around. I like them introducing new mechanics and characters with unique playstyle. But inflating numbers all around is really lazy.
@@sct77 if balancing the game just mean increase bosses hp than that just lazy. Making new mechanics for existing bosses so that they punish certain mechanics will be far better? Make player really think creatively about how they can 0 cycle with the new mechanics
@@ladyhdwastaken Feixiao only looks good because she's the best dps for one of the only two fully developed archetypes. Once all the archetypes have entire 5 star teams then Feixiao will be less relevant. Jingliu was considered to be better than Ratio and look at her now. Again, if they didn't increase hp everyone would 0 cycle on auto. No one wants that. They have been introducing new mechanics for a while now but the game is still being developed so they can't just add a completely new enemy every MoC. Apocalyptic Shadow is already trying stuff and some of the turbulence buffs in PF have to be played around.
Prydwen is the authority on gacha game character rankings. Their conclusion on every game is the end all be all. Saying otherwise implies you have no idea what you’re talking about
Bro has never heard of free will and opinions. Like bro ever thought of thinking for yourself for once, and not letting other's dictate how you view everything else? Like this is some actual hive mind level activity.
right now they all think fugue would replace hmc,until they realise fugue+hmc is literrally better for superbreak formula than rm+fugue or hmc,only boothill who want ruan mei over hmc,i dont even surprise if ruan mei fell off bcs she only bis for one character after fugue release
@@koseki-nj3xcthe issue with this take is 3.0 and RMC releasing soon, and RMC will almost DEFINITELY be BiS for the future summon meta based on leaks, leaving Fugue to replace their spot as a super break support
@@Phikinnie eh? I thought RMC was a summon DPS. You really think they're going to be better than Aglaea? Not that I think Ruan Mei is going to be replaced in break teams, at least FF teams. If anyone is on the chopping block it's the sustain, don't need it if the enemy is dead before it takes a turn.
@@Phikinnie RMC WONT BE AS POWERFULL AS YOU EXPECTED. I BELIEVE HMC WAS A MISTAKE AND WAS OVERLY OVERTUNED. EVEN FUGUE ISNT AN UPGRADE OVER HMC AND IS VERY SKIPPABLE
The HMC doomposting is getting genuinely annoying. Two sides LITERALLY EXIST. Just because a unit comes out does NOT mean a unit HAS to drop every time
@@NiaTheMilkTank HMC is a really powerfull unit for a free charater , people who downplaying him just want a reason/excuse for them to pull fugue cause new meta coming soon and superbreak and fua have a chance to get powercreept
@@ryuk6795 that's still ignorant of the fact that two sides exist and Apoc is designed fully around breaking Fugue spoiler below Pulling for fugue is fine but "justifying" it like that is genuinely dumb again because two sides exist and you'll be able to rock superbreak on two teams The same goes with doomposting FF just because of exo-toughness. Yeah we just gonna ignore that FF has THE strongest superbreak in the game just cause it doesn't let her get some kind of stack? That's dumb. It does help her get her Action Advance more consistently every single time now
@@NiaTheMilkTank I agree with everything, I have always believed in 2 things when it comes to gacha games 1. Charaters position in meta and teams changes everytime a new unit comes 2. Charaters pull value differ from account to account Also trying to correct or explain things to people in gacha space is stupid cause they only believe themselves to be right and other to be wrong Its better to just see and enjoy them cry so much over a single player game
HTB remains in tier zero until they're directly powercrept by Fugue. There IS no superbreak team without him. They are the Sole crux that makes the entire archetype work. Even Superbreak DPS units like Firefly, Boothill and Rappa still want them on their team. And even when they're replaced, people might just use them in conjunction with Fugue, or start a second break team on the other side.
i feel like silverwolf was the biggest lie ever , i pulled her just because i was confident about bug implant , IT HAS NEVER BEEN USEFUL IN THE GAME , character just dont care of weakness , or ignore the weakness type
SW is fully dead as a unit… there’s no space for her in any team, she serves little to no purpose at all now… players should just get Jiaoqiu if they want a debuffer Elemental coverage was never and will never be a thing, all content was easily clearable when off element and element has only ever mattered for a break dps.
I feel as though anyone who can imagine themselves still playing HSR a year or two or three from silverwolf’s release date coulda told ya that elemental coverage would be a solved problem.
@cachauable yeah, but nobody predicted weakness implant, if she got fazed out because we as players just collected multiple elements on DPS it would've been fine, instead Hoyo decided to throw the elements system in the garbage and make DPS either ignore it or do so much damage that it doesn't even matter if there's no weakness matching. Now when there's Fire, Wind or Phys weakness, players use Firefly, Feixiao and Yunli. and if there's Ice, Quantum or Imaginary, players use Firefly, Feixiao and Yunli. The elements system now is just aesthetics, it just changes the colour of the signs above the boss head
I don't even know why, because her character has a lot of things I usually like, but I don't actually care much for Feixiao as a character. And a DPS character I don't care about? Insta-skip. No regrets, I give it 3-4 patches at most before she starts dropping tiers because there's a brand new busted af DPS character, and before long she'll be in the same tier as Balde, just like Jingliu and DHIL are now
Fu Xuan is suffering because meta players moved on from her in favour of aventurine, lingsha or sustainless. She's mostly being used by the casual audience so her clear data makes sense.
And she gonna be only one single existing unit who gonna work with summons, watch this dogshit site keeping her low, idk why ppl look there in meta perspective
She is suffering coz she's garbage. Sorry but this is the sad truth. I have her and never use after i got Aventurine on his debut. She can't sustain against AoE nukes (for example Cocolia's) even on Floor 11, and her CC resist is only a single time use. Say hello to the explosive bugs in the newest Pure Fiction. They are laughing and spitting on her. (and that combo Kafka+thicc robot lady is also giving Fu a "good time") For the casual players she is even more awful.
@@NakedSnake1010 Fu Xuan is straight up significantly better than Bailu, Gepard, Natasha, yet the player data has her in the mud with them. If meta players dropped Aventurine and Lingsha for a few weeks Fu Xuan would shoot right up while Gepard and Bailu would only see small increases. I'm not saying Fu Xuan didn't fall off, she absolutely did, I never use her any more. But the clear data is not reflective of her actual strength.
@NakedSnake1010 If your fu is getting one shot in floor 11 then you either have skill issue or "your" fu xuan is shit because mine can easily tank moc every patch .
@@manbearpigsereal She is better than Bailu, yes. But Gepard and Natasha can sustain in the situations where Fu cannot. Gepard can sustain AoE nukes and Natasha is better for if there's a lot of CC.
Sad to see that their tier list is the same as their data. They used to actually test and play the game then rank units based on that, but now they went the easy way and just copy paste their endgame data on the tier list.
Totally agree, feels like they are too dependent on data now and doesnt consider anything else. The fact that their tier list is supposed to be E0S0 with optimal team comp but then most of the data is E0S1 and with whatever team people use their characters with, its just so random and has so many factors, idk why they take data so seriously
@@leightonx7430 But that team is actually good and knows what they're doing. The data is coming from random players who might be bad and the tier list is supposed to only look at the best teams for each character while the data counts all teams.
@@sct77 Generally speaking, there's quite a big divide in "meta" opinions between the general player base (your average player) and the players who really know what they're doing. If we rely on prydwen's small elite team to collect the data themselves, the data and info will be heavily skewed for the small percentage of players who are already quite invested in hsr meta. A good example of this would be a unit like Seele. Before Feixiao came out I'd say, she performed very well in the right hands with the right builds and speed tuning. If prydwen ranked her according to this peak performance, the general player base who relies on tier lists will think seele is some god tier unit. These average players will build seele and wonder why she isn't performing at a "T0" or "T0.5" level. In my opinion, I don't think prydwen is fundamentally flawed per se. It's the simple fact that "pro" player experiences nearly always differ from the vast majority, irrespective of which game you play. I think prydwen should create more tier lists which cater to players with more investment or a deeper understanding of the game. They certainly have the data for it and the community support as well.
@@leightonx7430 this creates a a bad feedback loop. Character rated low because of low usage leading to them getting lower usage and then a lower rating. Rather than objective analysis on their performance potential.
The HMC doomposting is getting genuinely annoying. Two sides LITERALLY EXIST. Just because a unit comes out does NOT mean a unit HAS to drop every time
@@darkdude1996ify you do realize if Fugues "speculation" of being a exo toughness superbreak enabler is "true" Then yes.... Yes I will The FF team won't change but side 2 will be Himeko, Fugue, Lingsha/Gallagher, Rappa/Support
Wait till they find out HMC Replacement isn't enough of an upgrade to drop HMC and only shows how good HMC is. (It'll be a big upgrade for BH and Rappa but most of the people doomposting don't have these two maybe Rappa and BH could go up a tier in MOC tho)
to be fair DHIL is absolutely abhorrent in this particular AS. kafka side he deals baby food damage idk why Sparkle definitely went too much on the sp+ and too little in the buffing according tp sp used..
^ I love this comments *Posts irrefutable proof about the topic, everyone knows it * Some random dude: B-but mide did good , look at the sice of my p*n*s, thats because probably i am or even lying or my definition of "well" is not the same as yours 🤓
why tho having an easy accessible team for casuals with low investment to get into the game to start clearing stuff is good. and that is majority of hoyoverse playerbase. for 0 cycle clears and such, superbreak really isn't that good for it
@maji112 "superbreak isnt good for 0 cycles" lol. Also its not about it being an accesible team. Its about it being super accesible while out damaging teams that need 5x the investment.
@@member.5290 "Same crit dps shit" brother every crit dps, even 4 star ones are unique. Each has their own mechanics with unique playstyles. The way you play seele/jl/dhil/ are completely different. But superbreak is only one playstyle: press the button of chioce to implant weakness and win. It is the most boring, 1 dimensional playstyle yet.
I've never seen Fu Xuan get one shot in AS when I use her with Yunli. They most likely play her with like 5k hp and a defense build or whatever. I'm literally using speed boost and energy rope, so it's not like I'm giga stacking hp either.
1/3 of Acheron players not having the optimal partner for her is kinda painful to watch, but in terms of more niche characters being used (Himeko, Jingliu, etc) people using them are either in the camp of 1) They have nothing better (so it's quite possible they don't even rate high enough to score in these categories even if they wanted to) 2) They're on fully kitted out setups that can exploit them to full potential. Contrast that to the hypercompetative meta characters, who get a higher % representation, but who the lower performers will drag the average performance down somewhat. Different characters also scale drastically different based on teamcomp vs personal gearing, and so on (the fact that Lingsha ranks higher in terms of average score than ANY dps is kinda indicative of this, as she was a bonus used to enhance already existing teams, wheras anyone without an existing followup/superbreak team would have been likely to skip her, thus meaning the people who do have lingsha are likely the higher ranked characters using x/y dps, thus driving up her average compared to the dps's, meanwhile the common meta supports are all much lower than the top dps's, since the team setups with lower rank dps's are diluting them a lot, which has the top supports all have a DECENT average, but fall lower than the top dps) Honestly, unless you've actually taken proper lessons on statistical analysis, the raw data can just as easily mislead you because the standard ways we process information just doesn't mesh the best with statistical analysis in general
There's a really easy way to make Silver Wolf and DoT etc great, but I think it'd be a bit too busted. Make a character that takes all debuffs on an enemy and makes those debuffs permanent, and separate them from new debuffs being applied. You could have as many instances of 5-stack Entanglement as you want. 50 stacks Arcana? How about we add another 50? Def shred? Maxed out all the time. Make my boy Sampo busted, E4 triggering 400 stacks of Arcana with every proc on his skill 💀
The powercreep is getting bad, Black Swan/Kafka alone, we didn't even leave Penacony yet when they went from one of the strongest teams to so weak it's actually insane how hard it is to try and complete some modes with that comp. I think the other problem is that they don't spread characters around for different teams, they focus on like 2 teams at a time and almost everything buffs them specifically, super break and FUA right now, all the other teams got neglected and left with pieces missing they need for a real team.
@YASUOMURAMASA It's the most frustrating thing about the game for me. Other teams are badly needing units to finish them and relics but no, everything is super break and FUA even when FF did not need anything else. Even character specific relics for the teams that have been the strongest for what feels like a century in gacha time. It's crazy that Acheron is the closest to competing with those teams and that team is still missing units, she has JQ and the rest is just characters that kind of work.
The more time passes, the more it proves Iyo was right. People are obsessing far too much over one unit (Feixiao, Acheron, Firefly) instead of looking at the *TEAM* that enables said unit. Without a team built around Fua (THE CORE), Feixiao is almost useless in every practical scenario. You need a bare minimum of 2 more extremely specific limited units to complete her "insane" team. You don't "just pull Firefly/Acheron", and win the game. None of the T0 units simply "Carry" in that sense. That is not how Star Rail works. These units help complete the core strategy in a given team composition, but you need ALL of the units in a team for the CORE to work. The symptoms of this problem is becoming more clear even in Pokke's videos, as he hyper fixates on individual performance, and grants too much credit to ONE unit, for the performance of their TEAM. It isn't that Feixiao herself is OP, it's that her TEAMS are op because the CORE (Fua) is meta. Why? Because Hoyo currently prefers the Fua/Superbreak cores....For now. Feixiao is just one piece in her team/core. Acheron didn't fall off because she is suddenly bad, Hypercarry as a core fell off, as intended by hoyo. People need to stop saying "just pull X" or "X unit is broken" and start viewing how these units perform as 4 members of a TEAM. A team built around a core strategy/playstyle. This is not an action game like Wuwa, its a turn based RPG that requires real team synergy to get this "Broken" performance. Btw, Iyo gets way more hate than he deserves, he may have some hot takes, but he ain't a fence sitter just sayin. Man says it how it is. lmao. Its also good that Pokke wants to speak is ACTUAL thoughts more instead of trying to being milk toast """neutral""" all day.
I think SW can have some game when we have an entanglement specific unit. Like a quantum Welt but more modern, imagine 50 stacks of entanglement. SW could be good in this scenario
I use super break Xueyi all the time in end game content where there is quantum weakness. and she gets full stars everytime. but my break set is utter ridiculous. I can put it on any unit and they can super break clear anything.
@@discreaminantfr just cleared the abyss with Thoma burgeon with 4star characters 💀 and Xinyan burn in Imaginarium theater. Hope it stays this way, cuz these past few endgames got great strategy.
i've always been in the camp that vertical investment is a shit idea (unless you're a giga whale getting E6), also more fun having 6 E0 units than 1 E6 unit
I believe if you are not in a break team and the team used couldn't reduce Sunday's toughness quickly enough to gain enough shield to block Sunday's AoE, Fu Xuan won't survive that long because she is taking damage for 3 teammates and including hers. Sunday's also have two AoE attacks on phase 1 while on phase 2, he does even more AoE damage. I see why Fu Xuan went down when the team couldn't reduce Sunday's toughness quick enough.
So mrpokke doesnt know why HMC is STRONG? IF U REALLY PLAY THE GAME.. THE REASON WHY HMC IS SO STRONG IS BECAUSE OF HOW MUCH SHE CAN SPAM HER ULT AND SHE'S A HARMONY. DDD is probably one of the most broken 4* lc in the game and the fsct that Only hmc can use it like a cheat engine makes HMC one of the best unit in the game.
22:30 ive been using guinaifen and pela for acheron since 2.1 and haven't changed that shit since💀. I have her s1, so its not the end of the world, but shed literally be unusable for me without it
I reaaaally don't want a star rail could never situation with how much power creep we have. Keep in mind this is just version 2. Hu tao from genshin impact (a 1.x character) is STILL VIABLE AND COMPETITIVE to this day (patch 5.2). Just think about that. Is Your Blade competing with Firefly? I think not.
Pokke man u looking down on hmc too much. And don't think fugue is gonna replace hmc like that. She might just make it easier to make a 2nd superbreak team, than replace hmc. Or they can be used in the same team, if ruan mei is unavailable. HMC is not letting that T0 go that easily. And Rappa being the same tier as M7 feels a little unfair, but maybe in the future will be different.
You know why this tierlist is somewhat bad? Everyone and even their grandma is using the characters with their cones(Atleast DPS and some supports) In genshin i understand why as S0, also in ZZZ too, but here not getting your DPS cone its like trolling, i dont see a universe were you have acheron and u dont have her cone(And more this days when the LC pasives are super niche). B-But not everyone is doing that, some of use just pull for characters! If you are just pulling for characters then Tierlists arent for you, because them are used to measure power and taking into account that LCs are parts of the characters kit placed somewhere else at this point, i think they should place 5 stars with his BIS cone at S1.(Again atleast for DPS units) And about the HTB topic, without it one archeotype just doesnt work, if thats not the definition of broken or BIS idk what it is.
Majority of players don't do that. Acheron is a rare exception since many feel it's borderline required, but Majority of players don't pull on sigs like with jinglu or dhil etc. And they damn sure don't on any sustains because they don't need it in the slightest to do there job. Put it like this. When these dps units came out, they didn't need there sig to be high tier. Feixiao came out, and at s0 e0 she is tier 0. You don't need her sig, at all. But several months in the future? Yeah she will appreciate a sig or something to compete with power creep. That's how it goes. Bur, not everyone is gonna do that. People will likely move on to the next new shiny dps. As such, they wanna know if there e0 s0 old character is still viable or not. That's the general mentality. Hell, smack was shocked when he asked his community if people pulled for Dr ratios light cone since ratio was free, and most said no. Again, it is very rare for people to commit pulling for a sig. And again, acheron is a rare exception. We can go ahead and say "well they should" ok but they don't. Now what? Keeping the list s0 e0 for 5 stars keeps it relatable I feel. Most get sigs or eidolons for supports or if they absolutely adore a dps.
her early leaks kit literrally almost like acheron kit the only different she want other erudition unit not nihility,and they add an extra turn after her ult,and have energy mechanic ult not stack mechanic like acheron
yk what? Why even listen to the meta if even characters that were released one patch ago are "falling off"?? You lose if you cant enjoy the game anymore becausw your pressured to pull new characters that you don't even enjoy playing, the only winners in this game are f2p an low spenders because 10/10 times they ACTUALLY enjoy the game. I never spent a single dime on this game and i'm enjoying building every character i have, whether its serval or herta. Lesson of the day is: dont listen to those meta slaves
That it took people that long to realize how incredibly stale and boring HSR meta/endgame has become is astonishing to me. I didn't touch any of the endgame slop for months now and i don't miss it a bit. Yeah HSR for me is in the back with Genshin and it will only be played for story.
And another pull payer. All the power creep defenders are branded as rich and therefore they will be able to afford everyone else's pulls. Open your wallet please.
Another one who is going to pay for my pulls. All the power creep defenders have to pay for everyone else's pulls. You're so rich after all. Clearly you can afford to keep up with this relentless power creep.
There's no way dr ratio e0s0 is stronger than dhil e0s0 and acheron and yunli. This is a joke. Without his LC he lose too much dmg. Acheron without jiaoqiu is completely fine, t0 actually.
@discreaminant But im not delusional tho?Not like midxiao fans that overrate her to the moon..... Unlike midxiao archeron doesnt need her bis team to actually do good 💀🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
@@zxcxzxc ignore him His mindset is still hypercarry. No wonder. They can only compare just 1 char in a team when they throw everyone else to the trashcan.
unfortunately I agree with Pokke, vertical investment is not even a guarantee of your character staying usefull anymore. After getting Aventurine this rerun, I don't think I'll pull for older characters or sig LC ever again, just new units, e0s0, save for the next new unit that's gonna powercreep the one I just pulled
That’s what I’ve done from the start, never failed me yet. Sometimes I will pull for sig light cones but never eidolons.
Yep, that's what i've been doing horizontal investment, quantity over quality. It gives more variety, and also so much freedom in that department.
More fun to go horizontal in my opinion unless u really like a character then I understand wanting to vertically invest
Ive been doing that since 1.1, mostly due to my playstyle, just explore new teams and i enjoyed it, and only vertical investing in teams that I like the most
its kinda depends on the vertical investment... if the vertical investment translate into the unit going to be more useful in more scenarios for their E1 and arguably E2.. rather than just simply bigger personal damage or solving personal flaws.. in a sense its both "vertical and horizontal".. its only a few countable cases tho..
People love to downplay Ratio so bad till they see his average numbers and realize he is EXACTLY where he deserves to be, stunt on them my f2p GOAT
Maybe you got Pela e4+ pearl early so he’s F2p…
For me he’s expensive af, to the point I had to pull for Fei to double my fua team’s dps 🙂
@@discreaminantI was running him with March hunt e2? pela with pearls and huohuo and he’s doing fine I don’t think he needs his premium team to do good numbers
I still use my free Ratio a lot, he can still dish out the damage to stay competitive his main weakness is just his kit demands more specific requirements of his teammates than FX. Both him in Acheron suffer the same problem where they require debuffs in a game that as of the current meta appears hell bent on making the buffers better amplifiers than the debuffers.
I love how every endgsme update the enemyes just get 5million more hp
Truly "challenging" content
This is such a lazy way of raising difficulty. I like unique boss mechanics rather than HP inflation. Please 😂
They aren't raising difficulty, they're balancing the game. Follow up and break have fully synergistic limited 5 star teams, the game would be a joke if they didn't increase hp. Everyone would easily be able to 0 cycle with Feixiao or Firefly on auto and at that point the game has no endgame content, it's all a joke.
@@sct77I fail to see where this is balancing when they release Feixiao who has nuclear damage even with her F2P friendly team. With her premium team it’s overkill. It’s power creep, simple as that. They’re inflating numbers all around. I like them introducing new mechanics and characters with unique playstyle. But inflating numbers all around is really lazy.
@@sct77 if balancing the game just mean increase bosses hp than that just lazy. Making new mechanics for existing bosses so that they punish certain mechanics will be far better? Make player really think creatively about how they can 0 cycle with the new mechanics
@@ladyhdwastaken Feixiao only looks good because she's the best dps for one of the only two fully developed archetypes. Once all the archetypes have entire 5 star teams then Feixiao will be less relevant. Jingliu was considered to be better than Ratio and look at her now.
Again, if they didn't increase hp everyone would 0 cycle on auto. No one wants that. They have been introducing new mechanics for a while now but the game is still being developed so they can't just add a completely new enemy every MoC. Apocalyptic Shadow is already trying stuff and some of the turbulence buffs in PF have to be played around.
Prydwen is the authority on gacha game character rankings. Their conclusion on every game is the end all be all. Saying otherwise implies you have no idea what you’re talking about
Bro has never heard of free will and opinions. Like bro ever thought of thinking for yourself for once, and not letting other's dictate how you view everything else?
Like this is some actual hive mind level activity.
@@MrNoms-cn6px chill man, it's a joke
@@MrNoms-cn6pxlmao is this your first time reading sarcasm?
oil up
did bro just take a joke very seriously
saying harmony mc doesn't deserve to be t0 is some of the biggest cope i've ever seen as they aren't the ones keeping firefly and lingsha up there
right now they all think fugue would replace hmc,until they realise fugue+hmc is literrally better for superbreak formula than rm+fugue or hmc,only boothill who want ruan mei over hmc,i dont even surprise if ruan mei fell off bcs she only bis for one character after fugue release
@@koseki-nj3xcthe issue with this take is 3.0 and RMC releasing soon, and RMC will almost DEFINITELY be BiS for the future summon meta based on leaks, leaving Fugue to replace their spot as a super break support
@@Phikinnie eh? I thought RMC was a summon DPS. You really think they're going to be better than Aglaea? Not that I think Ruan Mei is going to be replaced in break teams, at least FF teams. If anyone is on the chopping block it's the sustain, don't need it if the enemy is dead before it takes a turn.
@@Phikinnie the issue with both yours amd koseki's takes is they involve future units, the current tierlist reflects what we have now,
@@Phikinnie RMC WONT BE AS POWERFULL AS YOU EXPECTED. I BELIEVE HMC WAS A MISTAKE AND WAS OVERLY OVERTUNED. EVEN FUGUE ISNT AN UPGRADE OVER HMC AND IS VERY SKIPPABLE
Time of month where people cry for their favs and fun time for trollers
Quite the treat, Indeed
The HMC doomposting is getting genuinely annoying. Two sides LITERALLY EXIST. Just because a unit comes out does NOT mean a unit HAS to drop every time
@@NiaTheMilkTank HMC is a really powerfull unit for a free charater , people who downplaying him just want a reason/excuse for them to pull fugue cause new meta coming soon and superbreak and fua have a chance to get powercreept
@@ryuk6795 that's still ignorant of the fact that two sides exist and Apoc is designed fully around breaking
Fugue spoiler below
Pulling for fugue is fine but "justifying" it like that is genuinely dumb again because two sides exist and you'll be able to rock superbreak on two teams
The same goes with doomposting FF just because of exo-toughness. Yeah we just gonna ignore that FF has THE strongest superbreak in the game just cause it doesn't let her get some kind of stack? That's dumb. It does help her get her Action Advance more consistently every single time now
@@NiaTheMilkTank I agree with everything,
I have always believed in 2 things when it comes to gacha games
1. Charaters position in meta and teams changes everytime a new unit comes
2. Charaters pull value differ from account to account
Also trying to correct or explain things to people in gacha space is stupid cause they only believe themselves to be right and other to be wrong
Its better to just see and enjoy them cry so much over a single player game
HTB remains in tier zero until they're directly powercrept by Fugue. There IS no superbreak team without him. They are the Sole crux that makes the entire archetype work. Even Superbreak DPS units like Firefly, Boothill and Rappa still want them on their team.
And even when they're replaced, people might just use them in conjunction with Fugue, or start a second break team on the other side.
i feel like silverwolf was the biggest lie ever , i pulled her just because i was confident about bug implant , IT HAS NEVER BEEN USEFUL IN THE GAME , character just dont care of weakness , or ignore the weakness type
2.0 changed everything. Xueyi was the progenitor of the 2.0 weakness implant DPS.
SW is fully dead as a unit… there’s no space for her in any team, she serves little to no purpose at all now… players should just get Jiaoqiu if they want a debuffer
Elemental coverage was never and will never be a thing, all content was easily clearable when off element and element has only ever mattered for a break dps.
I feel as though anyone who can imagine themselves still playing HSR a year or two or three from silverwolf’s release date coulda told ya that elemental coverage would be a solved problem.
The only unit i regret so far. And i have Jing Yuan.
@cachauable yeah, but nobody predicted weakness implant, if she got fazed out because we as players just collected multiple elements on DPS it would've been fine, instead Hoyo decided to throw the elements system in the garbage and make DPS either ignore it or do so much damage that it doesn't even matter if there's no weakness matching. Now when there's Fire, Wind or Phys weakness, players use Firefly, Feixiao and Yunli. and if there's Ice, Quantum or Imaginary, players use Firefly, Feixiao and Yunli. The elements system now is just aesthetics, it just changes the colour of the signs above the boss head
Bronya definitely for boothill.
powercreep goes brrrrr
When everyone falls off, there is no character powercreep but enemy powercreep
@@Ben-v6z3s
Not everyone but older units.
@@sayedahalzakir3008and everyone will become “older units”…
I skipped feixiao and i don't regret it. As long as i can clear endgame there's no point in me pulling her
If u have a completely maxed out ratio there was little reason to pull her
@@Accountthatexists I do hahahah
I feel the same way about superbreak, still have no superbreak teams and I’ve been fully clearing everything as f2p
@@inventedbaton958 I have firefly but I got no ruan mei, so I normally don't use my firefly unless I got no other options in endgame
I don't even know why, because her character has a lot of things I usually like, but I don't actually care much for Feixiao as a character. And a DPS character I don't care about? Insta-skip. No regrets, I give it 3-4 patches at most before she starts dropping tiers because there's a brand new busted af DPS character, and before long she'll be in the same tier as Balde, just like Jingliu and DHIL are now
Fu Xuan is suffering because meta players moved on from her in favour of aventurine, lingsha or sustainless. She's mostly being used by the casual audience so her clear data makes sense.
And she gonna be only one single existing unit who gonna work with summons, watch this dogshit site keeping her low, idk why ppl look there in meta perspective
She is suffering coz she's garbage. Sorry but this is the sad truth. I have her and never use after i got Aventurine on his debut.
She can't sustain against AoE nukes (for example Cocolia's) even on Floor 11, and her CC resist is only a single time use. Say hello to the explosive bugs in the newest Pure Fiction. They are laughing and spitting on her. (and that combo Kafka+thicc robot lady is also giving Fu a "good time")
For the casual players she is even more awful.
@@NakedSnake1010 Fu Xuan is straight up significantly better than Bailu, Gepard, Natasha, yet the player data has her in the mud with them. If meta players dropped Aventurine and Lingsha for a few weeks Fu Xuan would shoot right up while Gepard and Bailu would only see small increases.
I'm not saying Fu Xuan didn't fall off, she absolutely did, I never use her any more. But the clear data is not reflective of her actual strength.
@NakedSnake1010
If your fu is getting one shot in floor 11 then you either have skill issue or "your" fu xuan is shit because mine can easily tank moc every patch .
@@manbearpigsereal She is better than Bailu, yes. But Gepard and Natasha can sustain in the situations where Fu cannot.
Gepard can sustain AoE nukes and Natasha is better for if there's a lot of CC.
So glad I pulled Lingsha, even though everyone said she's just Gallagher, because I liked her voice.
Sad to see that their tier list is the same as their data. They used to actually test and play the game then rank units based on that, but now they went the easy way and just copy paste their endgame data on the tier list.
I would rather have them rely on data from thousands of samples than a small subset gathered by their team.
Totally agree, feels like they are too dependent on data now and doesnt consider anything else. The fact that their tier list is supposed to be E0S0 with optimal team comp but then most of the data is E0S1 and with whatever team people use their characters with, its just so random and has so many factors, idk why they take data so seriously
@@leightonx7430 But that team is actually good and knows what they're doing. The data is coming from random players who might be bad and the tier list is supposed to only look at the best teams for each character while the data counts all teams.
@@sct77 Generally speaking, there's quite a big divide in "meta" opinions between the general player base (your average player) and the players who really know what they're doing. If we rely on prydwen's small elite team to collect the data themselves, the data and info will be heavily skewed for the small percentage of players who are already quite invested in hsr meta.
A good example of this would be a unit like Seele. Before Feixiao came out I'd say, she performed very well in the right hands with the right builds and speed tuning. If prydwen ranked her according to this peak performance, the general player base who relies on tier lists will think seele is some god tier unit. These average players will build seele and wonder why she isn't performing at a "T0" or "T0.5" level.
In my opinion, I don't think prydwen is fundamentally flawed per se. It's the simple fact that "pro" player experiences nearly always differ from the vast majority, irrespective of which game you play. I think prydwen should create more tier lists which cater to players with more investment or a deeper understanding of the game. They certainly have the data for it and the community support as well.
@@leightonx7430 this creates a a bad feedback loop. Character rated low because of low usage leading to them getting lower usage and then a lower rating. Rather than objective analysis on their performance potential.
The HMC doomposting is getting genuinely annoying. Two sides LITERALLY EXIST. Just because a unit comes out does NOT mean a unit HAS to drop every time
Wait? HMC have doomposting?
You gonna run Superbreak both sides? Good luck
@@darkdude1996ify you do realize if Fugues "speculation" of being a exo toughness superbreak enabler is "true"
Then yes.... Yes I will
The FF team won't change but side 2 will be Himeko, Fugue, Lingsha/Gallagher, Rappa/Support
Wait till they find out HMC Replacement isn't enough of an upgrade to drop HMC and only shows how good HMC is. (It'll be a big upgrade for BH and Rappa but most of the people doomposting don't have these two maybe Rappa and BH could go up a tier in MOC tho)
And they use fua in the other side so that’s why they doompost HMC
to be fair DHIL is absolutely abhorrent in this particular AS. kafka side he deals baby food damage idk why
Sparkle definitely went too much on the sp+ and too little in the buffing according tp sp used..
Really? My DHIL did well in this AS
^ I love this comments *Posts irrefutable proof about the topic, everyone knows it * Some random dude:
B-but mide did good , look at the sice of my p*n*s, thats because probably i am or even lying or my definition of "well" is not the same as yours 🤓
kids please, if you think your favorite toy still does the job done then no need for you to look at any kind of list like this
Superslop was a gigantic mistake
true, even outside endgame, for a new player to beat the story they don't even need to build their characters, just level them up and use super break
why tho having an easy accessible team for casuals with low investment to get into the game to start clearing stuff is good. and that is majority of hoyoverse playerbase. for 0 cycle clears and such, superbreak really isn't that good for it
@maji112 "superbreak isnt good for 0 cycles" lol. Also its not about it being an accesible team. Its about it being super accesible while out damaging teams that need 5x the investment.
Yeah, better stagnate and do same crit dps shit forever. If you dont like SB its YOUR problem. Right now, this is the most f2p teams and im all for it
@@member.5290 "Same crit dps shit" brother every crit dps, even 4 star ones are unique. Each has their own mechanics with unique playstyles. The way you play seele/jl/dhil/ are completely different. But superbreak is only one playstyle: press the button of chioce to implant weakness and win. It is the most boring, 1 dimensional playstyle yet.
Nah, as long they done their work, they still working.
cope 😢
I've never seen Fu Xuan get one shot in AS when I use her with Yunli. They most likely play her with like 5k hp and a defense build or whatever. I'm literally using speed boost and energy rope, so it's not like I'm giga stacking hp either.
Horizontal investment is the way to go only is you use your wallet, otherwise vertical investment is the best.
I'm glad MrPokke realise this. I've been saying this since old holy trinity (Dhil, JL and Blade) taking overturn DPS role as first sign powercreep.
1/3 of Acheron players not having the optimal partner for her is kinda painful to watch, but in terms of more niche characters being used (Himeko, Jingliu, etc) people using them are either in the camp of
1) They have nothing better (so it's quite possible they don't even rate high enough to score in these categories even if they wanted to)
2) They're on fully kitted out setups that can exploit them to full potential.
Contrast that to the hypercompetative meta characters, who get a higher % representation, but who the lower performers will drag the average performance down somewhat.
Different characters also scale drastically different based on teamcomp vs personal gearing, and so on (the fact that Lingsha ranks higher in terms of average score than ANY dps is kinda indicative of this, as she was a bonus used to enhance already existing teams, wheras anyone without an existing followup/superbreak team would have been likely to skip her, thus meaning the people who do have lingsha are likely the higher ranked characters using x/y dps, thus driving up her average compared to the dps's, meanwhile the common meta supports are all much lower than the top dps's, since the team setups with lower rank dps's are diluting them a lot, which has the top supports all have a DECENT average, but fall lower than the top dps)
Honestly, unless you've actually taken proper lessons on statistical analysis, the raw data can just as easily mislead you because the standard ways we process information just doesn't mesh the best with statistical analysis in general
My Fu doesn't get one shot, but she is the character I focused the most on building to get as close to perfect as possible.
There's a really easy way to make Silver Wolf and DoT etc great, but I think it'd be a bit too busted. Make a character that takes all debuffs on an enemy and makes those debuffs permanent, and separate them from new debuffs being applied. You could have as many instances of 5-stack Entanglement as you want. 50 stacks Arcana? How about we add another 50? Def shred? Maxed out all the time.
Make my boy Sampo busted, E4 triggering 400 stacks of Arcana with every proc on his skill 💀
The powercreep is getting bad, Black Swan/Kafka alone, we didn't even leave Penacony yet when they went from one of the strongest teams to so weak it's actually insane how hard it is to try and complete some modes with that comp.
I think the other problem is that they don't spread characters around for different teams, they focus on like 2 teams at a time and almost everything buffs them specifically, super break and FUA right now, all the other teams got neglected and left with pieces missing they need for a real team.
Your second point is so true.
FuA spam and Super Break get upgrade after upgrade while all other niches get left to dust.
@YASUOMURAMASA It's the most frustrating thing about the game for me. Other teams are badly needing units to finish them and relics but no, everything is super break and FUA even when FF did not need anything else. Even character specific relics for the teams that have been the strongest for what feels like a century in gacha time. It's crazy that Acheron is the closest to competing with those teams and that team is still missing units, she has JQ and the rest is just characters that kind of work.
Don’t say this to my black swan and Kafka.
The more time passes, the more it proves Iyo was right. People are obsessing far too much over one unit (Feixiao, Acheron, Firefly) instead of looking at the *TEAM* that enables said unit. Without a team built around Fua (THE CORE), Feixiao is almost useless in every practical scenario. You need a bare minimum of 2 more extremely specific limited units to complete her "insane" team.
You don't "just pull Firefly/Acheron", and win the game. None of the T0 units simply "Carry" in that sense. That is not how Star Rail works. These units help complete the core strategy in a given team composition, but you need ALL of the units in a team for the CORE to work.
The symptoms of this problem is becoming more clear even in Pokke's videos, as he hyper fixates on individual performance, and grants too much credit to ONE unit, for the performance of their TEAM. It isn't that Feixiao herself is OP, it's that her TEAMS are op because the CORE (Fua) is meta. Why? Because Hoyo currently prefers the Fua/Superbreak cores....For now. Feixiao is just one piece in her team/core. Acheron didn't fall off because she is suddenly bad, Hypercarry as a core fell off, as intended by hoyo.
People need to stop saying "just pull X" or "X unit is broken" and start viewing how these units perform as 4 members of a TEAM. A team built around a core strategy/playstyle. This is not an action game like Wuwa, its a turn based RPG that requires real team synergy to get this "Broken" performance.
Btw, Iyo gets way more hate than he deserves, he may have some hot takes, but he ain't a fence sitter just sayin. Man says it how it is. lmao. Its also good that Pokke wants to speak is ACTUAL thoughts more instead of trying to being milk toast """neutral""" all day.
6:54 you say this but then one side has physical and wind resistance and then i gotta watch either yunli or fei xiao look like plebs 😭
I think SW can have some game when we have an entanglement specific unit. Like a quantum Welt but more modern, imagine 50 stacks of entanglement. SW could be good in this scenario
Powercreep is unforgiving in HSR and its starting to really annoy me. Buffing enemy HP bars is not enticing endgame design. Do better mihoyo.
It takes Genshin 3 years to double the abyss HP (5.1 hp pool rn is almost double compared to 2.x, and more to 1.x)
While it only takes a year in HSR 🗿
I use super break Xueyi all the time in end game content where there is quantum weakness. and she gets full stars everytime. but my break set is utter ridiculous. I can put it on any unit and they can super break clear anything.
Just dont use Prydwen
the type of video that GENSHIN COULD NEVER
Could never have that sheer amount of powercreep?
Good tho 🗣️
@@discreaminantfr just cleared the abyss with Thoma burgeon with 4star characters 💀 and Xinyan burn in Imaginarium theater. Hope it stays this way, cuz these past few endgames got great strategy.
i've always been in the camp that vertical investment is a shit idea (unless you're a giga whale getting E6), also more fun having 6 E0 units than 1 E6 unit
The power of a creep
Hold up this writing is fire
4:30 can't believe mrpokke mispronounced clara buff
Cant Wait for enemies to have 1bilion hp in patch 4.0😅
Intern-kun's Fu Xuan must be made of paper if she gets one-shot in AS
I believe if you are not in a break team and the team used couldn't reduce Sunday's toughness quickly enough to gain enough shield to block Sunday's AoE, Fu Xuan won't survive that long because she is taking damage for 3 teammates and including hers. Sunday's also have two AoE attacks on phase 1 while on phase 2, he does even more AoE damage. I see why Fu Xuan went down when the team couldn't reduce Sunday's toughness quick enough.
All I can say is that screens were broken, the T1 unspoken, I've even forgotten who Pokke is.
So mrpokke doesnt know why HMC is STRONG?
IF U REALLY PLAY THE GAME.. THE REASON WHY HMC IS SO STRONG IS BECAUSE OF HOW MUCH SHE CAN SPAM HER ULT AND SHE'S A HARMONY.
DDD is probably one of the most broken 4* lc in the game and the fsct that Only hmc can use it like a cheat engine makes HMC one of the best unit in the game.
Fraudkle is not top3 Harmony no more 🗣️
The consequence of mocking “chicken wing boy” 🗣️
DEVS LISTENED :O 4:49
you're supposed to run feixiao without aventurine if you're using bronya, and march 7th will sp battery just fine
4:50 meme worthy
What if they make future debuffers tick down on their turn instead of enemies that are super fast 🤔
Bro straight up ate prydwen after coming back from service
22:30 ive been using guinaifen and pela for acheron since 2.1 and haven't changed that shit since💀. I have her s1, so its not the end of the world, but shed literally be unusable for me without it
17:03 blud just knows
in previous AS (before current one) i used JL against aventurine boss and she perfomed better than acheron...
I reaaaally don't want a star rail could never situation with how much power creep we have. Keep in mind this is just version 2. Hu tao from genshin impact (a 1.x character) is STILL VIABLE AND COMPETITIVE to this day (patch 5.2). Just think about that. Is Your Blade competing with Firefly? I think not.
6:07 exactly fuge will give an insane buff to her
Pokke man u looking down on hmc too much. And don't think fugue is gonna replace hmc like that. She might just make it easier to make a 2nd superbreak team, than replace hmc. Or they can be used in the same team, if ruan mei is unavailable. HMC is not letting that T0 go that easily.
And Rappa being the same tier as M7 feels a little unfair, but maybe in the future will be different.
Rip mrpookie 😢 he will be missed
xueyi+fugue might be so good
its looking okay
Atp “maining” a play style is just a dumb idea. Especially if you’re pulling on reruns
Nah this tier list already cooked
where is "before you pull Acheron"?(
The fall off of Prydwen needs to be studied
This game has fully become FEH, where no vertical investment is required bahahahaa
Firefraud already powercrept by an Erudition character lmao
2nd half is tailor made for rappa so it is to be expected
I love fighting bullet sponges, pls Hoyo buff the HP more and more🥰
You running out of skill points with Bronya with that level of investment is a skill issue for skill points my dude lol
Xueyi will rise
Just wait Fugue and see
madam herta will save me 😭
Chat it’s Qingquover 😔
Yeah i fell off too........
For Herta
You know why this tierlist is somewhat bad? Everyone and even their grandma is using the characters with their cones(Atleast DPS and some supports) In genshin i understand why as S0, also in ZZZ too, but here not getting your DPS cone its like trolling, i dont see a universe were you have acheron and u dont have her cone(And more this days when the LC pasives are super niche).
B-But not everyone is doing that, some of use just pull for characters!
If you are just pulling for characters then Tierlists arent for you, because them are used to measure power and taking into account that LCs are parts of the characters kit placed somewhere else at this point, i think they should place 5 stars with his BIS cone at S1.(Again atleast for DPS units)
And about the HTB topic, without it one archeotype just doesnt work, if thats not the definition of broken or BIS idk what it is.
Majority of players don't do that. Acheron is a rare exception since many feel it's borderline required, but Majority of players don't pull on sigs like with jinglu or dhil etc. And they damn sure don't on any sustains because they don't need it in the slightest to do there job.
Put it like this. When these dps units came out, they didn't need there sig to be high tier. Feixiao came out, and at s0 e0 she is tier 0. You don't need her sig, at all. But several months in the future? Yeah she will appreciate a sig or something to compete with power creep. That's how it goes. Bur, not everyone is gonna do that. People will likely move on to the next new shiny dps. As such, they wanna know if there e0 s0 old character is still viable or not. That's the general mentality.
Hell, smack was shocked when he asked his community if people pulled for Dr ratios light cone since ratio was free, and most said no. Again, it is very rare for people to commit pulling for a sig. And again, acheron is a rare exception. We can go ahead and say "well they should" ok but they don't. Now what? Keeping the list s0 e0 for 5 stars keeps it relatable I feel. Most get sigs or eidolons for supports or if they absolutely adore a dps.
There's 0 chances that
THE Herta is a DOT character
So at least until first half of 3.0 DOT will be in decline more and more.
shes most likely going to be a crit dps just like her 4* form, judging by the scholar set :3
her early leaks kit literrally almost like acheron kit the only different she want other erudition unit not nihility,and they add an extra turn after her ult,and have energy mechanic ult not stack mechanic like acheron
Why's Dr.Ratio still this high wth 💀
27:08 fu xuan dies to big aoe atk, gepard and bailu can sustain it, simple
DHIL o7 Guowang Chaoxi
yk what? Why even listen to the meta if even characters that were released one patch ago are "falling off"?? You lose if you cant enjoy the game anymore becausw your pressured to pull new characters that you don't even enjoy playing, the only winners in this game are f2p an low spenders because 10/10 times they ACTUALLY enjoy the game. I never spent a single dime on this game and i'm enjoying building every character i have, whether its serval or herta. Lesson of the day is: dont listen to those meta slaves
9:34 skill issue
I am fucking tiréd of this game why cant powercreep just stay for thé dps why thé Fuck are they powercreeping harmony 5 star characters
29:56 and people be praising fraudcheron future proof when shes hella mid these days lmao acheron main are delusional 😂
@irena4929 really weird from you when you follow an acheron simp Channel 😂
@@set5026 He's just a baiter
says the midhill mains ,not even the best breakers ,not even top of the hunt unit ,trash in PF .even for physical YUNLI is so so much better 😂
Fu xuan and flopkle fell off 🗣️🗣️🔥🔥
nun
Disappointing over Time
That it took people that long to realize how incredibly stale and boring HSR meta/endgame has become is astonishing to me. I didn't touch any of the endgame slop for months now and i don't miss it a bit. Yeah HSR for me is in the back with Genshin and it will only be played for story.
Fu xuan?😂😂
bla bla bla powercreep bla bla bla hp pool bla bla bla put another complain to dont know to pull/skill issue
And another pull payer. All the power creep defenders are branded as rich and therefore they will be able to afford everyone else's pulls. Open your wallet please.
15:40 acheron is 8 months old soon, for a game thats not even 2 years old, thats along ass time, she should be falling off
Another one who is going to pay for my pulls. All the power creep defenders have to pay for everyone else's pulls. You're so rich after all. Clearly you can afford to keep up with this relentless power creep.
Stale meta in stale game.
There's no way dr ratio e0s0 is stronger than dhil e0s0 and acheron and yunli. This is a joke. Without his LC he lose too much dmg.
Acheron without jiaoqiu is completely fine, t0 actually.
i still hate that feixiao is in T0 since shes worse than acheron at E0S0 the tier list is trash af lmao
Delucheron main spotted 😱
@discreaminant But im not delusional tho?Not like midxiao fans that overrate her to the moon.....
Unlike midxiao archeron doesnt need her bis team to actually do good 💀🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
@@matejsabadi7992 L bait lol Feixiao one of the most f2p friendly characters
@zxcxzxc What a joke that is lmao 😭🙏🙏🙏🙏
She literally nothing withouth the premium team but okay keep glazing a mid ahh character 💀🙏
@@zxcxzxc ignore him
His mindset is still hypercarry. No wonder. They can only compare just 1 char in a team when they throw everyone else to the trashcan.
Early gang
first