Do you ever work with tubular rivets, specifically semi-tubular rivets? I am trying to learn but can't find much on how to do it other than with large expensive machines. Any help would be appreciated.
I worked in a OLSON BODIED truck plant in the late 70s and early 80S. I have done my share of bucking rivets. I have also used this knowledge in snowmobile repair for years now. He is right once you get the hang of it its a super clean and strong way to fasten metals. For first time users try on a sample piece of metal and it will come to you.
Hi, You show how to rivet in good conditions. But when working on a plane you can’t always position the gun correctly . You should show those particular situations. Thanks
Seeing this video took me back to New Stanton Senior High school, Jacksonville FL in 1975, when I took sheet metal as a vocational study. The shop teacher the was Mr. Richard Adair; who taught me and many others riveting, though we used hammers and metal forms to install them, except for pop rivets. Your workspace has many familiar pieces of equipment. Mr. Adair was ex navy, a great teacher, even taught various metal seams including the Pittsburg seam for connecting sheet metal ends.
Don’t know why the algorithm chose to show me this video today, but boy this one takes me back. When you started out saying you were going to set rivets the old fashioned way and help up the rivet gun my first thought was “how else would you do it?” And the I remember that my days as an airframes mechanics was over twenty years ago now. Sure we had pull through rivets too, but we barely ever used them and I still don’t like them. I’m a software engineer now but sometimes I miss the satisfying tactility of bucking a nice line of rivets.
I am a first time builder, looking at several kits. Vans prefers driven rivets, while Rans, Sonex and Panther prefer pulled rivets. Aside from aestectics, is there a significnt strength difference between the two? It seems pulled rivets asre much easier to work with? Is it worth the extra effort to dimple the holes. Does flush riveting (dimpling) significantly improve performance? Or is this another aestetics choice? Thank you! Great series! Very informative!
Paul offers this: "A very common question - thanks for asking! The truth is that there are many puled rivets that are as strong as driven rivets, but in general, pulled rivets are going to be heavier and larger. The majority of the flush rivets in an RV are -3s, and they create a very nice, aerodynamically smooth surface. Most pulled rivets are at least -4 size, and on curved surfaces, don't create quite as smooth a finish. Pulled rivets also leave a less than perfect head, which can be fixed by the application of a filler - which adds more work, but leaves a nice finish. I have built airplanes both ways, and am happy with the results because I was happy with the design of the aircraft. And if I was happy enough with the design to choose it, then I am generally happy to use the rivets that the designer chose for the project. Changing a pulled rivet aircraft to solids (or vice versa) generally creates a huge amount of work for little gain. Aesthetics aside, yes, flush rivets make a measurable difference when it comes to performance - at the expense, of course, of extra work to dimple and countersink. If you’re building something to go over 150 knots, then generally speaking, flush rivets are really worth the effort. For 120-knot airplanes….not so much. If you look at existing kits, you’ll see that they tend to follow this rule of thumb."
I'm new to solid rivets and it's on trailers in my application. We use 1/4 rivets but with a few different sizes of heads my question is do I need to try to match the rivet set to the head size or do I just get a 1/4 set of the correct style. because I noticed none rivet sets mentioned a recommended head size. Looking at the shop supplied rivets and internet pictures they seem to be brazier head rivets? I made my own out of an old air hammer punch but it will leave marks on the larger head rivets. I don't like that so before I take on bigger body work jobs I want to invest in the correct tooling.
Paul says: "I’m afraid I have no experience with copper rivets, so I’m not sure I can help you out. Intuition tells me that a 10mm diameter rivet is going to be pretty big (a little less than half and inch?), but I have no idea how much energy it would take to drive it. Anytime I have a question over how to do something, or if a technique will work for some application, I always mock it up on a scrap and try it first - no use ruining an actual work piece until I have practiced on scrap first."
Paul says, "Stainless or Monel is what I’d use if I was worried about it….but honestly, Van’s uses all aluminum rivets on firewall-to-structure and has for years. It makes a difference if you were building a seaplane. But in general the dissimilar-metals corrosion is going to be a non-issue in the lifetime of the builder."
@@stuarth43 you can also use it to cut collars off and chisel and so much more which makes it a pneumatic hammer that hits different types of sets. Okay
I spent far too much time in the bucking bar.
It doesn't go down well with the bucking wife.
Do you ever work with tubular rivets, specifically semi-tubular rivets? I am trying to learn but can't find much on how to do it other than with large expensive machines. Any help would be appreciated.
I worked in a OLSON BODIED truck plant in the late 70s and early 80S. I have done my share of bucking rivets. I have also used this knowledge in snowmobile repair for years now. He is right once you get the hang of it its a super clean and strong way to fasten metals. For first time users try on a sample piece of metal and it will come to you.
Hi,
You show how to rivet in good conditions. But when working on a plane you can’t always position the gun correctly . You should show those particular situations. Thanks
Excellent suggestion. We wanted to offer the basics first and then tackle the more difficult parts of metal building.
Seeing this video took me back to New Stanton Senior High school, Jacksonville FL in 1975, when I took sheet metal as a vocational study. The shop teacher the was Mr. Richard Adair; who taught me and many others riveting, though we used hammers and metal forms to install them, except for pop rivets. Your workspace has many familiar pieces of equipment. Mr. Adair was ex navy, a great teacher, even taught various metal seams including the Pittsburg seam for connecting sheet metal ends.
Don’t know why the algorithm chose to show me this video today, but boy this one takes me back.
When you started out saying you were going to set rivets the old fashioned way and help up the rivet gun my first thought was “how else would you do it?” And the I remember that my days as an airframes mechanics was over twenty years ago now. Sure we had pull through rivets too, but we barely ever used them and I still don’t like them. I’m a software engineer now but sometimes I miss the satisfying tactility of bucking a nice line of rivets.
Try remove hilok using collar remover
Done a lot of riveting in my life
Thanks! This video helped me a lot to understand rivets for my ATPL license theory.
I am a first time builder, looking at several kits. Vans prefers driven rivets, while Rans, Sonex and Panther prefer pulled rivets. Aside from aestectics, is there a significnt strength difference between the two? It seems pulled rivets asre much easier to work with? Is it worth the extra effort to dimple the holes. Does flush riveting (dimpling) significantly improve performance? Or is this another aestetics choice? Thank you! Great series! Very informative!
Paul offers this: "A very common question - thanks for asking!
The truth is that there are many puled rivets that are as strong as driven rivets, but in general, pulled rivets are going to be heavier and larger. The majority of the flush rivets in an RV are -3s, and they create a very nice, aerodynamically smooth surface. Most pulled rivets are at least -4 size, and on curved surfaces, don't create quite as smooth a finish. Pulled rivets also leave a less than perfect head, which can be fixed by the application of a filler - which adds more work, but leaves a nice finish. I have built airplanes both ways, and am happy with the results because I was happy with the design of the aircraft. And if I was happy enough with the design to choose it, then I am generally happy to use the rivets that the designer chose for the project. Changing a pulled rivet aircraft to solids (or vice versa) generally creates a huge amount of work for little gain.
Aesthetics aside, yes, flush rivets make a measurable difference when it comes to performance - at the expense, of course, of extra work to dimple and countersink. If you’re building something to go over 150 knots, then generally speaking, flush rivets are really worth the effort. For 120-knot airplanes….not so much. If you look at existing kits, you’ll see that they tend to follow this rule of thumb."
@@KitplanesMagazine Thank you very much!
whats about semitubular rivets with gun ?
just ordered a 4x from airspruce, for 3mm alu 5083
We need this tools in india how can we buy it
I'm new to solid rivets and it's on trailers in my application. We use 1/4 rivets but with a few different sizes of heads my question is do I need to try to match the rivet set to the head size or do I just get a 1/4 set of the correct style. because I noticed none rivet sets mentioned a recommended head size. Looking at the shop supplied rivets and internet pictures they seem to be brazier head rivets? I made my own out of an old air hammer punch but it will leave marks on the larger head rivets. I don't like that so before I take on bigger body work jobs I want to invest in the correct tooling.
Except for "oops" rivets, the rivet heads follow the shank size, and you do need to have the right rivet sets for the size you're using.
I am going to be doing some 10mm copper ribbits you think a regular air hammer would work or do you suppose it will be over powered ?
Paul says: "I’m afraid I have no experience with copper rivets, so I’m not sure I can help you out. Intuition tells me that a 10mm diameter rivet is going to be pretty big (a little less than half and inch?), but I have no idea how much energy it would take to drive it. Anytime I have a question over how to do something, or if a technique will work for some application, I always mock it up on a scrap and try it first - no use ruining an actual work piece until I have practiced on scrap first."
... What type are rivets,are suitable for joining dissimilar metals, Ti and stainless, anti vibration,leak (exhaust) ?.
Paul says, "Stainless or Monel is what I’d use if I was worried about it….but honestly, Van’s uses all aluminum rivets on firewall-to-structure and has for years. It makes a difference if you were building a seaplane. But in general the dissimilar-metals corrosion is going to be a non-issue in the lifetime of the builder."
@@KitplanesMagazine Many thanks for getting back to me. Big 💕 from the UK 🇬🇧🇺🇲
So I’m new to this .. can I use my air hammer 119 max to do this ? Ty
I also would like to know.
Did ever find out
@@richardlamm4826 do you use manly 1/4 rivets what kinda spring and rivets sets are you using because I'm also running the cp714
Why do you call it a rivet gun? Is it not an air hammer? If not why?
windy hammer, like they used on ships, you can also stretch meta using this on plate edges
@@stuarth43 you can also use it to cut collars off and chisel and so much more which makes it a pneumatic hammer that hits different types of sets. Okay