P-47 Pacific Theater Missions
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 มิ.ย. 2024
- I want to talk about some of the Pacific Theater P-47 missions. Missions in this theater were flown with a combat radius as far as 450 miles using very early Razorback Thunderbolts with the Brisbane drop tank. With Later Razorbacks as far as 500 miles WITH A BOMB, and bubbletop Thunderbolts ranged beyond 800 miles.
The pilots of the Fifth Air Force Thunderbolts met the challenges of the Japanese and the dangers of the theater itself head on and prevailed.
Although it's not the main point, this video will provide the receipts for some of the things I said in my recent debate with Mr. Marshall. For example, the metal Republic drop tank, the fact that Pacific Theater Thunderbolts did routinely operate at high altitude, and of course the ranges of the missions involved.
I am currently reading one of Mr. Marshall's P-51 books, it's awesome.
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Hey Greg you have now debunked the P47 range myth very thoroughly well done, no one else Ive heard has the knowledge and ability to get things across in such a clear way as you have. The question Ive got is If you switched to the drop tank at 1500' wouldn't the fuel flow through the lines be too great for vapour locks to form from fuel boiling off into vapour. So if you switched to the drop tank at low altitude and stayed on that tank till it was empty could it be a problem? Of course that wouldn't apply if you had a drop tank on each wing and drew from them alternately.
Two videos on Juggernauts in the Pacific in a 24 hour window. Awesome.
Yup, it was one video, but it grew out of control and I had to split it up.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles We love it when you 'get out of control', Greg. Superb videos.
Just curious- how inaccurate were maps back then? Could there have a bit more distance inaccuracies in New Guinea vs Western Europe?
@@jonathanrobinson7573
There could have been but I'm sure all the distances he references in these videos are from modern sources and not WW2 maps.
You can check them by Googling "Straight line distance from _______ to _______", I've done it to look up the distances from certain targets to certain airbases in England when looking up the distance escorts would have had to fly on their return trip, it doesn't do any good for the distance from their base to the target because the bombers flew all kinds of crazy routes on the way there trying to fool the Germans into thinking they were going somewhere else, and the escorts flew relays that were supposed to meet up with the bombers at certain locations but after dropping their tanks when encountering fighter's near the target and after engaging them they'd have flown a fairly direct route back to their base in England.
So I'm sure you could do the same in the Pacific by Googling what the distance is between two points, in the event one of those airbases doesn't have a modern name that registers on Google if you dig around you might be able to find it's latitude and longitude given for it during the war, that's usually on paperwork that can be found online.
@@jonathanrobinson7573 Good question.
This video, coupled with the last one, makes it crystal clear. The drop tanks were an option and could absolutely have been used in Europe at the time.
Thanks Central.
I've worked for bosses operating from a flawed pet-paradigm before. It's difficult; if not impossible to get them to change their minds.
Correct, some one was pulling for the P51. My best guess an arms manufacturer.
The 'Bomber Mafia' was led by Gen Curtis LeMay in Europe and his idea was that bombers didn't need escort because they'd fly in a 'box' formation and their guns could defend against fighter attack. When the bombers were getting cut to pieces by the Luftwaffe....he complained that they weren't defending themselves properly and only when losses started to become unsustainable did things change. He was transferred to the fight against Japan and at the same time the Mustangs were ready and took over the escort duty to save face rather than admit that the un-escorted bombers were a bad idea and they could have been using Thunderbolts all along.
Once again, it’s very sad how many good men died because of ego and stupidity. These videos are just fantastic.
who's ego, and what stupidity?
You can't abandon a theory without first testing it. they tested it, and within about 3 months they abandoned it and went to escorted missions.
@@SoloRenegadewrong
In addition to your valid statement, do not forget that due to the ego and stupidity of mustached man, Tojo, Stalin how many millions died?
@@timpost2981 then try to prove it wrong. state facts.
@@SoloRenegade
You're absolutely right, any new concept has to be tested and tested beyond one try at it, the 8th Air Force's R&D time on the unescorted bomber concept was more than 3 months but as anyone who has ever tried to develop a new concept knows in order for it to be fully vetted you have to make sure all your other variables aren't giving you false readings, and with the unescorted bombers the early failure of it had to be put through making sure other variables weren't the problem, they had to ask themselves "Are the formations tight enough?", "Are the gunners properly trained and effective", this was something that was being done for the first time in history so no, the first mission will not yield enough information to warrant abandoning a new concept, it's easy for someone to sit here in 2024 and say "They should have had enough brains to abandon it after the first mission" but they have the benefit of looking back, people like that fail to realize that the first mission's were actually successful giving the concept of unescorted bombing an early indication of success.
People are too quick to judge the Bomber Mafia general's in that regard, what they did wrong I compare to Richard Nixon and Watergate, anyone who knows what really happened with Watergate knows that Nixon didn't do anything wrong when it comes to the break in at the Democratic headquarters because he knew nothing about that, it was being involved in the cover up is what he did that was wrong, same with the Bomber Mafia, it the covering things up that was wrong, however I will say this in their defense, during a war that America is in your're always going to have members of Congress and Senator's looking to make a name for themselves by roasting military leaders unfairly, as if they'd have done a better job themselves, General's are very powerful men in the military but if there's one thing that will make them shake in their shoes it's a Congressional Inquiry, which as anyone knows who's ever followed one they have a tendency to be witch hunts that can treat people unfairly, I can see why they cooked up the "No fighter's in theater could have escorted the bombers during that period" narrative, and since they'd learned that unescorted bombers wasn't going to work what would the point have been of relieving them of their commands and appointing new commander's in late 1943? They were the only people in the world with experience in commanding a high altitude daylight precision bombing campaign at that time, so dragging them out of there and essentially starting over again surely would have been even worse, they'd learned about the concept of unescorted mission's so time to move on and there's no need bringing a bunch of gas bag politicians into things, they'd only have made them worse.
Awesome work!
AND acknowledging Australian contributions, something 3 generations have waited for. Seriously.
And maximum bonus points for correctly pronouncing Brisbane.
I watch a few military channels and have seen mentions of how Australia did a lot of with what they had, automotively, with aircraft, and rifles, SMGs, etc. There are unfair comments about the Bob Semple tank but they ignore that it wasn't a tank, it was meant to be a mobile machine gun nest, at best an AFV. The internet is getting the word out.
@donjones4719 The Semple Tank was New Zealand, not Australia.
@@mcduffcarrier Damn, I forgot that again. Even compared to Australia, NZ had a very limited industrial base. Ergo the Bob Semple.
Haha. It's known Australians have been a staunch ally.
One of your best videos. The extra details of the PBYs and Kenney, the different mission profiles, the stimulants, and the fog war, all combine to tell a great story.
Thanks, I'm pretty happy with the way this came out.
My dad was in the British army in 1946 and had PTSD from being bombed during WW2 in Manchester.
When I was a kid he was still taking the Ephedrine/Pseudo Ephedrine that he was prescribed by the Army doctor for his PTSD.
these last 2 videos on the P-47 have really been two of your best, and I've watched them all. Not just because of the thorough debunking of the "helpless without Mustangs" myth in ETO, but in the very clear, methodical way you've collected, derived, and presented the facts in support of your arguments. Unfortunately, the debate wasn't a serious conversation, despite your best efforts. These latest videos, however, are ground-breaking revisions to our understanding of the air war in WW2....history being re-written -- truthfully this time -- as we watch. Thank you.
well said!
It's really nice seeing someone really advocating the P-47 and clearing the misconceptions about it. The P-47 is my favourite allied fighter of the war and quite sad to see it overshadowed by P-51 and Spitfires. Like many other people, I have heard too much about how the P-47 is lacking range to escort bombers, but I always wondered 'then how did the 47s fly their missions in the pacific if they are really that short ranged' and your videos really explains it. I first found your channel since the first P-47 series dropped and been following since.
confirmation bias
Why be sad the Spits were in the war from 1939 and the P51 was chosen because of the bad T/M of the P47 everything else was a minor point.
Welcome to the club.
I like the way that P-47 was designed and built.
The Spitfire and the Hurricane were made to get at any incoming bombers attacking an island. And there was a very manoeuvrable small fighter as a potential menace.
They fulfilled their purpose.
Hawker did not find it worthwhile to develop the Hurricane and went on to build fighters powered by much larger engines.
The Spitfire grew and grew with a bigger engine but always trying to look good.
@@20chocsaday Hawker did develop the Hurricane.
Hawker Hart became the Demon.
Hawker Demon became the Fury.
Fury became the Hurricane.
Hurricane became the Tornado.
Tornado became the Typhoon.
Typhoon became the Tempest.
Tempest became the Fury.
Fury became the Sea Fury.
P-47 was designed and built as a double hull submarine. Built massively overweight, as the P-47N proved when they shed tons of weight from the design. But that made them less durable too.
This makes what the ground troops went through in new Guinea even more impressive, and didn't realise how big it is compared to europe
In New Guinea the Japanese had 350k troops, some sources say more than 600k, others nearly 1m. In any event all agree over 200k deaths primarily from disease and starvation, remainder kia. The Allies had 7k Australians and 5k US kia. The Japanese were neutralised by naval blockade and stranded until War's end.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Guinea_campaign
@@warrenklein7817 yeah being Australian the kokoda track battles and the push onto the airfields was just hell on earth, but the thing that has never really been conveyed is they where fighting over distances simerlar to going from London to Berlin
You really do love that plane Greg, I hope someone lets you fly one some day !!
Maybe Elon is a fan.
Back when I was about five years old I had book from the 1940's called I believe, "How we fight and bomb." I don't know where the book came from, but I had until I was a teenager and read it until it fell apart and was tossed. This was not a kids book. It was a fairly detailed look at the thinking of the AAF just before the war, with details such as the proper approach to a target to ensure that you do as much damage possible with your bombs. (Perpendicular to any roads, railroads and telephone lines.) The book showed things like how the B17E gun positions could protect the plane and mission profiles for fighter intercepts. Pretty heady stuff.
In any case, some things were clear when I think about them. The bomber mafia never really considered before the war the environment that they would be dealing with. They expected that the bombers would have the advantage of surprise and when they were developing doctrine, things like RADAR and the Dowding system didn't exist. So they never conceived of an integrated air defense that started when the bombers were forming over England. So they never saw the need for an escort figther. The book makes clear that even the most modern fighters of the time, the P38 and P39 were to be used for pursuit and interception, something that they almost certainly believed would be more difficult than it turned out to be. The idea that fighters could be put in the air and directed to the bombers for coordinated attacks was simply not something that they thought about very hard, until they were forced to deal with it. Thus you had the Eighth Airforce and 1943.
That's just it. It's not that the Bomber Mafia's ideas were totally without merit at some point. It's that they failed to admit when they were wrong, regardless of the reasoning and then blamed the P-47, which I obviously have an issue with. Especially as politicians and bureaucrats us this same tactic today.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles Amen
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobilesdo you know why they were so stubborn?
@@mrcat5508You don't get to be a flag officer without a healthy - or possibly unhealthy - degree of stubbornness.
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles Have you ever seen Drachinfel's video "The Mark 14 Torpedo - Failure is Like Onions"? One particular navy admiral was even worse than any bomber general. It's excellently done.
That was a home run in my opinion.
Kenney was a brilliant commander. In addition to the achievements mentioned here, he also promulgated the idea of using medium bombers as strafers and skip-bombers against shipping, which annihilated Japanese shipping in the battle of the Bismark Sea. He also used parachute retarded fragmentation bombs, ie para-frags, which no else in the USAAF knew what to do with or wanted, against airfields, Which decimated the IJAAF at Wewak, on a raid they never recovered from.
Kenney allowed Pappy Gunn to experiment how many 50 BMGs you can install on nose of A-20 or B-25. Those strafers did huge damage to Japanese logistics. They could sink real merchant ships by just heavy MG fire, turning them to edam cheese. Just imagine chucking all along New England northern coast in small convoy of Daihatsu landing crafts, going to deliver rice and ammo to some remote outpost, when half squadron of B-25s beam on you, all of them spewing 10.000 .50 cal rounds per minute. Instant rectal matter evacuation.😅 Aussies were proud of their Beaufighters which fought side by side with USAAF (4 Hispano cannons and 6 303 Brownings), but Gunns "shed built in Australia" strafers werent bit behind. I suggest Greg to make video about that largely forgotten aspect of air war.
@@kimmoj2570 I'll 2nd that motion. GREG WE NEED MOAR PACIFIC THEATER WAR VIDS TO SHOW HOW INEPT 8th AF WAS!!!
I love how Greg just keeps shoving salt in the wound 😂
Always glad to see Oz get a shout-out! I wish that Australia would get more credit for all they accomplished in the PTO.
My grandfather never had anything but good things to say about the Australians.😊👍🏻
This part of ww2 is often forgotten, thank you Greg for covering this
Catalina is like that movie extra that shows up in every movie.
I'm really enjoying this series on the P-47 in the Pacific, Greg. Thanks again!
Quality work, Greg - thank you! As to your closing remarks about the 5th AF, BOY, you said a mouthful! My father flew B-24s for the 13th AF, 5th Bomb Group under Kenny's theater command (i think it was just prior to Wurtsmith getting command of 13th AF; Kenny by then commanded all of FEAF, so 5th and 13th Air Forces at that point.), and he always sang Kenny's praises, even though he was out of the "stepchild" AF. Dad got wiped out in a blown tire overweight takeoff on Morotai in late 1944 IIRC. He didn't discuss it much because most of the crew didn't survive when they cartwheeled into a flak bunker off the runway and the fuel cooked off - he bore the burn scars for the rest of his life. I imagine you'll get around to Pappy Gunn and the B-25 strafers eventually - there's a tale. Chuckled at that story in Kenny's book ("The CG - oh, we threw that out to lighten the ship...")
Greg, your fundamental assessments on drop tanks in various theaters of war is entirely consistent with my own readings. The 5th AF in the Pacific were always more open and resourceful than the hidebound and dogmatic 8th AF in Europe. (BTW, this remains true to this day.) The bomber mafia were true believers in the pre-war dogma that the 'bombers will always get through' and that bombing could be decisive. It took bloody reality to teach them they were wrong. To their credit, they did eventually make many of the changes needed.
The Bomber Mafia should stand as a case study of the dangers in allowing doctrine to become dogma.
Charles Lindbergh worked for a time as a test pilot for Ford which was building R-2800 engines and flew test flights in the P-47. One he almost lost his life in as his oxygen system failed at high altitude and he had only managed to trim the plane for a slow decent before he passed out. He revived at about 5000 ft. and got the plane back under control. He then worked to design a visual indicator of the flow of oxygen in the crew oxygen system to help others avoid this hazard. When he went to the Pacific it was to help operations of Marine fighter squadrons flying F-4U Corsair and then he was asked to spend time with the Air Force Squadrons in P-38. He did that for a while before he was told to report to MacArthur whom he expected to end his unauthorized activities but from whom he got approval and support in the theater. Washington (FDR) had Lindbergh on a 'black list' and refused to sanction his activities, had prevented him from being employed by aircraft makers and only Ford was willing to buck the Pentagon and hire him. The South West Pacific was a long way from Washington and he had found friends there.
He was suspected of being a Nazi and with some merit to that. It's not really a surprise he wasn't looked on favourably. I think it turned out not to be true but he was enough of a eugenicist to be suspect
Boy, if there's anything in the world that's not surprising, it's Charles Lindbergh working for Henry Ford.
@@warheadsnationAbsolutely! And if 10% of people here are unaware, Lindbergh was perceived as a Nazi sympathizer, and Ford’s ideology was bent that direction as well.
@@warheadsnation As surprising as Lindy finding a friend in 'Dugout Doug'? He did honestly expect his next flight would be back to the states when he learned MacArthur knew what he had been up to.
Thats interesting Henry Ford and Charles Lindberg were both captivated by Nazism when that Ideology first came out. I hope they regretted that when they saw the depth of evil that came from putting it into practice in a comprehensive way. Perhaps what they did to help win the war was some sort of practical redemption for their earlier errors.
I found these videos on the P-47 in the Pacific fascinating since my father was a gunner in a B-24 flying from New Guinea at the time. He was assigned to the 22nd Bomb Group, 19th Bomb Squadron. He was on some of the raids you mentioned because I have all his military records including his flight records and two very detailed books on the 22nd Bomb Group. I wonder if things are such that he survived the war and I am here due to those P-47 escorts, their drop tanks, and General Kenney? No way to ever know for sure. Thank you so much for your research and the video.
As a side note, I was once assigned to the 49th Fighter Wing at Holloman AFB, NM, which was once part of 5th AF in WWII.
Thanks. I have been to Holloman. All the streets were named after states, plus Cuba.
All his records are great family information and should be kept, my thought anyway. If there ever comes a time considering where to keep this history, USAF historians can archive your family history. The voices and actions of our men and women from that time are going quiet and dim in our consciousness and what remains should be maintained and available to all.
I'm so glad you're continuing your brilliant appraisal of the Thunderbolt.
As to the range and escort debate, for me the case was made at the 'conclusion' of the first series.
The very fact that droptanks had to be sourced from us Brits in the eto and from the Aussies in the pto says it all for me.
Considering that the first Schweinfurt raid was conducted soon after the Pointblank directive, the powers that be were obviously still convinced that 'the bomber will always get through'; although there was also a political question as to whether Hap Arnold thought that RAF Fighter Command should bear the load of the daylight escorts, following extensive modifications to the UK's defence interceptors.
A real show of allied force would have been perfect, but for the US's reluctance to reciprocate in the dark.
No droptanks for the 8th, but serious modifications to RAF Fighter Command are fine, apparently.
I read a very interesting account of a P-40 pilot who bailed out over New Guineau, in a book called "War Pilot". He experienced malaria, capture by head hunters and being carried through jungles tied up like a tiger on a pole while in a malaria fever hallucinatory state. Finally, being bought for a bag of rice by friendly natives who took him to Australian planters.
He was never shot down, just lost in severe thunderstorms which disoriented him and caused him to run out of fuel.
Imagine living to tell that story.
Some of your best work here. "Pacific 360º: Australia's battle for survival in World War II" by Roland Perry is an excellent book and shows the New Guinea campaign from non-American eyes. MacArthur does not come out well, but Kenney does. MacArthur seems to be more interested in optics than reality, and influenced history to make his efforts seem more important than they were.
In New Guinea the Japanese had 350k troops, some sources say more than 600k, others nearly 1m. In any event all agree over 200k deaths primarily from disease and starvation, remainder kia. The Allies had 7k Australians and 5k US kia. The Japanese were neutralised by naval blockade and stranded until War's end.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Guinea_campaign
Greg, One of your best episodes. Loved all the detail about a little addressed topic.
Australian Michael John Claringbould has written (and continues to write) several books on the air war in the south and southwest Pacific. His books include data from Japanese sources, mostly official records, that document Japanese losses and are an invaluable reference source. Also, note that the Fifth Air Force (and Naval and Marine units) flew against Japanese Naval Air Forces as frequently as Japanese Army Air Force Units. Indeed, Army units did not arrive in theater until May 1943. Fifth Air Force did abandon daylight raids on Rabaul for a period during 1943 due to excessive losses. I share your admiration for Kenney as an operational commander, however, he was also a publicity hound who frequently overstated Fifth Air Force accomplishments even when he had accurate data. Granted he felt that was necessary to get additional assets in an under resourced theater.
Mr. claringbould's research is incredible. His access to Japanese records and Japanese sources who understand aviation and military subjects puts his research far ahead of what we have had since the war. The fact that so many Japanese records are turning up after 80 years of being told that few Japanese records survived the war makes me question much of what I have read the past 50 years.
@@fredkitmakerb9479 Richard L Dunn's new book South Pacific Air War is very similar. Dunn exploited a large collection of Japanese records accumulated over years. Japan did do an official history of the war so records are out there.
Thank you. Just ordered two of his books.
@@georgeburns7251 Nice to support the people doing the new research. Good on you!
I just wanna say you do such a tremendous job at this subject matter… I would love to hear an episode of Unauthorized History of the Pacific War that brings you on to really shed some light on this little known sector of the war effort.
Greg, you have really expanded my knowledge of the P-47. This presentation brings back OLD memories of a project I did as a junior in high school in '57 - '58 on the 5th Air Force. As a retired Naval Aviator, airline pilot, corporate pilot and current CFI and air taxi pilot, I am and have been a military history buff with particular interest in the Pacific theater and more recently the "Great Patriotic War." Your videos greatly enhance our appreciation for the aircraft in particular and their roles in the prosecution of the war. BZ
It's great to see posts about Fifth Air Force in Papua New Guinea. Lindberg visited as a consultant to extend the range of the P-38s for those long missions. The P-47s did great work. I'm currently a historian in 5AF. Tsili Tsili was set up as a refueling point to facilitate fighter escort on Wewak strikes. Aviation fuel was flown into an older mining airstrip a few miles away that could handle C-47s. I met a lieutenant who in 1943 was the guy who figured out how to modify a 2-1/2 ton truck to be able to be broken down into two halves, each that could just fit through the cargo door and not exceed the rated payload of the aircraft by too much. They used the trucks to haul the barrels the few miles to establish a fuel depot. Fifth AF was always making do with what little they had in an austere theater. Happy to discuss if you want to do the story.
You're a what? Anyway, that's fascinating, I have never heard of a 2 1/2 ton truck being broken down that way.
I work as a civilian government employee for the USAF. I am the 18th Wing historian at Okinawa. Kenney mentions the truck in his memoir. He got a couple of facts wrong. I have the patent, and a roll of 36 photos of the day they demonstrated the truck at Seven Mile airstrip in Pt Moresby. And a bunch of other documents the inventor saved, because his immediate supervisor jealously tried to punish him when he was sent back to Australia to get the trucks modified there. The brass wrote letters in his defense. Another aspect of this is the Texan, Everette Frazier, who located the Tsili Tsili site. He left a self published memoir. He's mentioned in Craven and Cate's history.
Nicely done Greg. The combination of technical detail, narrative story telling, and in an AO that gets very little attention, combined to make this an outstanding documentary!
First, terrific video Greg! Very informative.
Second, I'm glad that you gave much credit where it is due to General Kenney. His innovative approach to types of aircraft ordered by the Fifth Air Force was essentially, "I'll take anything!" He made great use of A-20's and Lockheed Hudsons when no other theater commander wanted them.
Third, I'm a bit surprised that Colonel Paul "Pappy" Gunn was not mentioned. An enlisted aircraft mechanic, and Naval Aviator, he changed services at the beginning of WW2 and was commissioned as a Captain in the Army Air Force. His approach to fabrication and maintenance on Fifth AF aircraft was extremely innovative, and his background of being a "tool user" was instrumental in his skills and thought process. He was not a "The book says you can do that" or "Let me see if we can get approval for that alteration" kind of guy. Instead he said, "Let's try it and see if it works." He was the guy responsible for mounting six 50 caliber machine guns and a 20 mm cannon into the nose of B-25's just to see if it worked. And it was a huge success. One A-20 or B-25 could easily sink a lot of merchant shipping with that one idea, and it was just one of the dozens of ingenious changes that were made after delivery of aircraft into the theater.
I'm pretty sure that he and his mechanics "engineered" and fabricated the Brisbane tank.
I add a simple, pithy Bravo Zulu for your work on this, and all of your videos. You are an ardent educator. Thank you, Greg.
Thank you for educating me regarding P47's participations in the SouthWest theatre. I've hardly heard anything about P47's in the Pacific.
The P-47 is my favorite airplane , my son's and I always argue because they love the P-51. I got them into watching Greg's videos and of course they make fun of his audio, but they respect his opinion and I can't wait for them to watch this one !
I hope they think the audio got better.
Great video Greg. Overwhelming evidence. Rock on!!!!!
what an excellent video, my two fav US fighters, Thunderbolts and Corsairs and this video really illustrates how good the P47’s really were - thanks so much Greg
🇦🇺
I'm really glad you liked it.
I think delving into these warbirds after the war as race planes at Reno would be a good evolution of your videos and the work done to truly maximize these airframes and engines.
I did that to a small extent in the Sea Fury video.
The fact that the PTO was far, far away from Washington....or Dayton...aided in the production and use of drop tanks.
It also helped the ETO...but not as much.
It has been my experience that things can get done VERY quickly in the military, if the military wants it.
But the hidebound pre-war mentality prevailed too much of the time.
By the way, it was to the better that Jimmy Doolittle was not selected to command the 5th AAF. It left him available to do great work elsewhere.....like in the 8th AAF.
The last two Jug videos are outstanding. I wonder if the P-47 pilots had been schooled in cruise control, like what Lindberg did with the P-38?
Greg covered the fuel conservation that Lindy taught the P-47 pilots about 2/3 through the video. Or are you referring to a different kind of cruise control?
My dad did a lot of hiking, mountain climbing, and arctic trips. He was able to get prescription morphine for the expeditions with no problem. If you break your leg, it's the difference between being able to walk out and dying.
Great video Greg, I'm glad you mentioned the Pacific Wrecks site. After watching this video I looked up my great uncle 2nd Lt. Dale F. Arnold and found a record of where he went down and the aircraft he was flying in April '44 near Wewak. I'd previously only heard snippets and rumors from my dad's generation and that he was MIA presumed KIA.
Excellent documentary information! Thanks Greg. There is no doubt that faulty doctrine, strategy snd tactics cost many lives over Europe. Largely due to the obstinacy and pig-headedness of those in charge. Proof-positive lays in the fact that they eventually did realize the necessity of escort fighters and the value of the P-47. The excuse regarding the lack of appropriate drop tanks fails entirely upon objective scrutiny as you so ably have proven. I recall when I was a teen in Canada reading about the losses incurred by the B-52's flying the same routes trip after trip. Proof that sometimes in the military, obstinacy is ageless.
The P47 was relegated for one good reason In the tests at RAE early 1944 the P47 was found to have a lower T/M than the Germans and too many T/Bolts were being lost chasing the Germans in the dive The P51 had a higher T/M than the Germans and was chosen .
My grandfather had some choice words for "Bunker Doug" as did may other pacific WWII vets. He clearly did make good choices on occasion. He managed to win the peace in post war Japan, and he selected Kenney. Perhaps that makes up for his shortcomings.
As cited in comments by others , these two P -47 videos are among some of your best . Thanks
I read some of that General Kenney book. Great stuff, thanks for the recommendation and historical videos you made.
Bravo, Greg! You can move to the ranks of ww2 historians. When I saw photos of p47 in ground attack configuration, I wondered, why that weight (3 bombs + 10 rockets) cannot be substituted with drop tanks. Now, everything is clear! Please consider writing a book. Your videos deserve much wider audience!
I never doubted Greg’s interpretation of this issue - to me the most salient point made here is that considering the amazing pace of technological advancement and industrial mobilization during the war, it’s impossible to believe that American engineers couldn’t figure out how to hook up an extra tank of gas to a fighter plane. Any reasonable person has to conclude that deliberate choices were made to prevent this.
But in doing these painstakingly researched videos he removes all reasonable doubt. Incredible work. It’s a great example for how honest people can push back on false narratives advanced by the “official” sources.
Great timing, I just started reading "General Kenney Reports: A Personal History of the Pacific War". This vid dovetail's perfectly with this book concerning range issues the General dealt with as soon as he hit the ground and took charge of the air campaign in that part of the world back in 1942.
Superb video Greg. I knew a 361st P-51 pilot who's group was attached to Patton's drive - meaning he did a lot of ground pounding. He told me several times that he wished he had gone to war in a P-47. He trained in one, in fact stuffed one into the everglades during an engine failure. He loved the P-51 - but loved the P-47 a lot more.
It's interesting that, at least from what I've found watching/studying WW2 air combats that the vast majority of pilots that trained din the p 47, although sent to another planes, would wish to have fought in it. Tough it might be a biased perception, since I absolutely love the jug, and thus see a lot of things about it
Awesome video and love the detail and tech data.
Wow! You really do dig into the details. A great video, thank you.
Another enlightening and interesting video. You never disappoint.
Thanks Greg, these last two videos have been awesome.
Once again, another great video. Thanks Greg.
I love watching your videos, it set many a conversation with my late father, an avid history buff and aviation enthusiast. When I was young I was obsessed with the P51 but as I got older, learned engineering, my appreciation for the P47 grew and I can say was capped off by your series. One of my father’s gifts for me when I moved home was a model he built of Bostwick’s P47 M. Thanks for all these years of videos I hope there are many more.
I always appreciate the Jug getting some love. She always seems to get overshadowed by the Mustang.
I really like your videos on the P47.
Too often overlooked because of the P51.
Another excellent presentation based on both comprehensive primary source research and fastidious metric analysis. Thanks Greg and welcome to "doing" PTO history!
Great video! My dad flew in the 13th AF and operated from several of the airfields mentioned. His missions started in early '44' and continued into 1945. His missions were almost always low altitude and using para-frags and napalm ordinance mostly against Japanese airfields in line abreast. His B-25J 27 had 14 fwd firing 50 cals. and yet, because the surrounding jungles were so dense. he hardly ever saw what he was shooting at.
I like your videos, Greg, but this one... this one has really impressed me.Bravo
This one is a banger Greg, love the conclusions!
Great work mate, and as an Aussie, we really appreciate and honour the commitment. But the 8th...more and more it sounds like B-17 crews were subjected to sheer bloody murder.
Fantastic video. Thanks Greg. And what a plane!
Greg, thank you. I'm an old nerd, but you provide insight on the old war birds that my total experience with was lovingly building plastic models, and the P-47 in 1/48 scale was one of my favorites. WAY bigger than other fighters, and it had the reputation of doing things like survivable crashes into chimneys. It's not pretty like a P-51, but it was a great answer to pretty much every opposing fighter.
Greetings from AU Greg, this series has been very interesting.
You’re spoiling us Greg
Dear Greg, Thanks for highlighting General Kenny's contributions to the victory against the Japanese military. His autobiography is both a fine history of the war, and also a great textbook on operations and management. Gregg
Fantastic content... I really mean that too...just incredible. Super vid! 👍
The 'Jug' was so ugly she was beautiful. My favorite WWII fighter. So fast, so powerful, so deadly. It was, in fact, their performance in the Pacific Theater of the war that endeared them to me. The men that flew them must have huge bal...well, you know. Thanks for bringing this interesting and informative video forward, Greg!
A fantastic follow up to the video on the Brisbane drop tank. Great stuff Greg. Facts and data show clearly that the losses over Europe weren't necessary. At least Kenney was driven by the facts of the situation he was in and adapted relatively quickly. Too bad the leadership in Europe wasn't so quick to adapt - it cost too many lives.
great vid. your research, documentation, analysis and delivery are second to none.
Thanks Greg, another great video. And new range extension methods sounds like a video on that would be great.
These two videos are great! There's so little information on the P-47 operations in the Pacific beyond saying that they were there.
Greg, Once again, your depth of research and highly detailed presentation has left me in awe. Thank you for your efforts! Tailwinds!
Fascinating subject matter and as usual meticulously researched.Thank you for all your efforts in creating these videos - the rigor and thought you put in to your presentations shines through every time! Bravo, Greg!
Thanks for another epic vid! Nine hours in a single-engine fighter over water.....no thanks!
The Japanese not only had their pilots on meth amphetamines, they also gave them to to their factory workers to improve productivity. The kamikaze pilots were given meth-laced chocolate bars embossed with chrysanthemum symbols, signifying it was gift from the emperor - such a thoughtful guy....
Not surprisingly, all this speeding resulted in serious social problems during the postwar period, some of which linger to this day. The Japanese word for the drug was 'hiropon'.
That's not all they gave those Kamikazes. There is another aspect there that to my knowledge has never been discussed in a book or on youtube.
Some fun facts:
- Methamphetamine hydrochloride (crystal meth) was first synthesized in Japan in 1919, but the effects weren't properly studied until it was resynthesized by an American in 1927, who tested the drug on himself.
- The first pharmaceutical production of methamphetamine began with an American company in 1934, originally as a decongestant named Benzedrine.
- All countries in WWII offered amphetamines in various forms to both civilian and military personnel, usually in the form of pre-existing over-the-counter drugs that had already been available prewar. The negative effects of these drugs would not be understood until well after the war.
- Pervitin, the German brand, became one of the most famous examples, available in tablet form.
- Some confusion persists about Scho-Ka-Kola, Panzerschokolade, and Fliegerschokolade. Scho-Ka-Kola is named for its ingredients, schokolade (chocolate), kaffee (coffee), and kolanuss (kola nuts), all of which contain caffeine and provide the advertised effect. It does not, and has never, contained coca or amphetamine products. This chocolate was provided to all branches, but particularly the Luftwaffe, leading to the Fliegerschokolade name. Panzerschokolade was instead a nickname for Pervitin, and not chocolate at all.
- Postwar, during the 1950s, while amphetamine prescriptions saw a sharp rise in the US, Japan became one of the first countries to try and ban its production. Several acts were passed from 1951-54 banning stimulant production in Japan, but criminal connections with the pharma factories meant that some production continued in secret, with the product going straight to the black market.
Greg providing us with another excellent history lesson while burying us with the receipts on the often overlooked engineering details that it took to _make_ that history happen at all.
You da man Greg!😎👍🏻
"Why did the name Tsili Tsili persist?'
A photo of Aussie Vultee dive bombers accompany this question.
Those cheeky ANZACs
I'm impressed you recognized the Vultee. As for the name Tsili Tsili, I don't know why it persisted. I will say that there was a lot of talk regarding what names to use for locations. The conqueror's names, or the names used by the conquered.
16:56 Caught the bent wings myself. Vultee A-35 was always one of my secret loves.😊
@@GregsAirplanesandAutomobiles I have done considerable research on the 1874th Aviation Engineering Brigade, my dad's WWII unit . They were were on Noemfoor to build and extend airfields. I can confirm your assessment of the difficulty with names. The native names were often impossible for english speaking military and so the did several things. One was to Anglicize them, resulting in some very strange new names, change them totally to somethning that made sense at the time but has no significance with in 2-3 months. I would bet Tsili- tsili was one of those cases. This naming system or lack there of , is the reason there is so much extra research needed to do something as seemingly simple as following a units route of travel. Add to that the GI's penchact for using profane or slang terms and you have a nearly perfect code, not easily broken. I saw this in my time in Vietnam as well. Great series!
Because it was a silly, silly location for an air base.
Tsili Tsili was actually the name of a nearby village to the airfield site, which was built in dry season on a gravel riverbed and only used until the rains returned. Marlinan, a few miles away, was an airfield used in the 1930s during a local gold rush but was unsuitable for WW2 fighters. Still ok for C-47s after they burned the grass off and cleared it. Kenney forbade using the name Tsili Tsili in case the operation turned into a debacle.
It is videos like these from people like you Greg, with so much passion, that drives my love for the industry as a whole, of which has unfortunately been filled with people who have been overcome with lack of passion and / or interest. The archive of manuals that you present also is another reason for me to be a part of your Patreon. Keep up the good work!
I had a friend who flew Hawker Hurricanes and Thunderbolt IIs (P-47Ds) with No. 30 Squadron RAF in Burma, which included some escort duty with lots of glide bombing/strike missions. He LOVED flying the Thunderbolt, with its roomy cockpit and rugged construction. One of his observations that always stuck with me was the subject range. He claimed 6 - 8 hour missions... stating that the RAF made fuel modifications in the wings for longer range flights. More than once he stated dismay as to why the USAAF didn't do the same in Europe. While I couldn't find any reference to RAF internal fuel tankage modifications, if one looks up the No. 30 Squadron RAF Wikipedia webpage... there is an early model Thunderbolt II equipped with what apper to be HUGE wing drop tanks fitted. PS, great video Greg!
Thanks, and that picture shows a bubble top with twin 150 or 165 gallon tanks. I would have a lot of range.
This is a great video. I think that you're getting better all of the time--and that's high praise. This is thoroughly researched and thoughtfully explained. Thank you.
Excellent, as always. Thank you, Greg.
As usual, well done Greg.
Stirling video! Pacific war stuff can be dour - but this was fresh. Great job. Hoping for more. No pressure 😂
Some of the best presentations on WW II USAAF ops I have ever seen. I have long suspected the capabilities of the P-47 were underrepresented in the common popular narrative. Greg has shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was indeed the case.
Thank you Greg!
You should compile this info into a book on long range P-47 ops.
Thanks as always. My two main takeaways (profound things I did not know before) are: 1) internal fuel, the stuff you need for combat and getting home after dropping tanks, is a binding constraint on combat radius. Drop tanks are only a constraint up to a point. 2) USAFE could have T-Bolt tanks that go up to 28-30K a year before they did. Yes, there are always mistakes in war, but this is a big one.
Wow! Great lessons.
Two very impressive videos about the P-47 I thoroughly enjoyed them and was surprised at the performance of the aircraft.Thank you for all the time and effort that you put into your channel,it is very much appreciated.Cheers.Roly🇬🇧
Your work is much appreciated Greg, thank you
PacificWrecks is a wonderful resource. I can spend hours hopping from article to article on various bases and wrecks. Love videos on the pacific theatre. This was a good listen. Thank you.
And Greg, your PBY Catalina video mentioned is the best video on said aircraft on the internet!
Incredible video which undeniably shows that the P-47 was far better than the Bomber Mafia gave them due credit. Thank you Greg!!!
Another great video Greg. Thanks for showing all the sources.
Thanks.
Sublime! Very well done Greg. Regards Jb
Really enjoyed this episode. Well done Greg.
Another great video Greg! Wow those 800 mile radius missions must have been incredibly exhausting. I can hardly imagine it.
Maybe. Just like driving, some people like to fly. Would have depended on the pilot. And P-47 was big enough to set up a tend inside, so at least they weren't wanting for elbow room.
Informative & enjoyable to watch.
Thank you for a great video illustrating your points about the importance of drop tanks for the P-47. I really like the stories you picked about the missions flown. I imagine some people were thinking you were beating a dead horse here - because you really have proven your point - but I appreciated your restraint and keeping to the point of P-47 missions in the Pacific. I look forward to more videos on combat aviation in the Pacific theater.
Thank you again for another excellent, well researched video.
I think I'm going to have to look up general Kenney's book.
Besides the information about the Jugs specifically, thanks for highlighting the activities of the 5th AF!