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Kuma is incredibly difficult because you have to fight against laughing so hard knowing you just did 70 damage on a single button while your opponent is screaming on the other side of the planet
3 EWGF + micro dash is super hard to do in practical quick match or ranked, you'll prefer mostly 2 or 4 EWGF, because except for specific matchups, doing heat burst after 3 electrics is mostly gonna drop combos because of weird hitboxes( the only ones that don't drop combos is against Jin, King, Feng and now Heihachi). Also, Kuma is really strong but not very easy to play. Everyone knows(or should if they don't know) learn how to play with and how to AGAINST because it's still two different things. If you're used to good movement what so ever then try Bears and see how your kbd goes with them😅. In casual matches if you don't know the matchup, then you're doomed and prolly gonna losequit because of lacking knowledge on what bears can do and what they can't do... Y'all should check Nino(4#Ranked Kuma vs Joka(1#Ranked Hei) match to see what it is to play with only safe move and open up a good defense...
I have two friends that play reina and kazyua they use hit boxes and Ewgf consistently and they only ever do two reps for their combos, you're not missing much damage for going with a way more consistent combo
Its interesting seeing Xiaoyu and King side by side so high up. I kinda get it though because theyre the opposite of each other; Xiaoyu is hard to do well with until you understand her kit/flowcharts but once you do she's *beyond* privileged and King is the opposite, being super strong early but really ramping up in difficulty once opponents use throw breaks and keepout, whilst not pressing into your armour moves.
Once you rank up with Xiaoyu, the opponents eventually learn how to easily shut her down and tying to win with her is like pulling teeth since you have to basically use her whole moveset to disorient the opponent combined with bating and evasions. Opponents will eventually wait out her shenanigans and poke and launch you out of stances and you’ll find out there is nothing more she can offer other than winning off of pure defense.
@@Cal3000 This is exactly my experience as a Lars main. One people know that f,2,1,LEN is the only true 50/50 and only safely doable on a double confirm, they all just duck dick punch you out of every stance transition. Don't have to tools other characters have to compensate for the ass you face. I mean they just barely gave his 1,1,1 combo the ability wall splat. Something every other character has.
@@Morgan-MadsenDisagree. Ducking his throws is just begging for damage as he has great mids, usually with a King player you get a feel for what throws they default to in what situations, if a King players back is to a wall you'll want to press 1 usually etc etc
But this is a tier list discussing ease of playing not how hard theyre carried. Its just about piloting the character, winning is correlates yes of course. Law is easy to play but yet theres characters like alisa, nina, dragunov, king, etc that are much more oppressive. You saying he's hard carried just makes it seem like you dont know the matchup well. As it stands his win rate online is not good and hes one of the most well known matchups after 30+ years of tekken
@@sebastianmoscoso9404i had a law today that hit me out of my 50/50 despite me actually hitting them. I play lars so this tilted me really hard. Im honestly thinking about switching maybe drag since he’s cool. But i dunno.
@@Floridamangaming729 may i ask what was the skip level and rank of the law? Doesnt matter too much but can reflect their playstyle. In terms of lars hes tricky to deal with especially his 50/50s so it is understandable someone jabbed or simply attacked from the pressure, maybe it wasnt his turn but he ended up using a fewer frame movie than you did after your 50/50. Tekken 8 does encourage offense afterall compared to turtling. Id say dont switch just add a character to your roster. I started with law and now i learned lidia, i have both of them to fujin now. But it takes a long time for me to learn a character and i played them in t7 as well. I think in a few months ill try a 3rd character
I find the people saying "My character is hard because everyone knows the matchup" so funny because... Everyone knows the match up because your character is so strong and easy that EVERYONE is picking them.
@@Invader.Xim.Yea but thats not the point here. He said everyone knows the matchup because everyone is picking these characters cause they strong and easy. But Kazuya is third most used character and he maybe not that difficult like hei but he is difficult
Asuka (and in extension, Jun) are designed for easy pickup, but they're not really easy if you want success competitively. So yes, they are easy to pick up, but not easy to win with. When you fight them, you kind of fight the player and not the character.
I'm sorry, but there is literally no reason for Lee to not be amongst the absolute hardest characters especially when taking into account is heat/smash. Edit: im not saying he is the hardest ever since there is nuance here, but he belongs in the highest tier of difficulty and that shouldn't be a crazy thing to say.
@@ichsamkeren5382 No just frames on its own are exceptionally hard. To the point where people literally made acid rain trainers outside of Tekken to help with the timing. That aside lee's heat is a crutch for bad players who don't know how to just frame and his heat smash despite its most recent change is still the worst in the game by far. I dont disagree about the outbrain part either. And no i'm not even a Lee main
As a raven main putting him on average difficulty is criminal. Definitely way harder than the characters in the orange difficulty. The understanding you need to make backturn and soul zone effective is crazy. It takes so mutch time to not get constantly screwed over by backturn. You need to respect everything and making people respect you is hard and he needs that to impose his gameplan especially on backturn in which people don't give a damn and press all the time so you have to make them respect you to be effective with backturn and one of the worst things is when raven randomly decides to get up on backturn and you get punished for it bad.
I am not a raven main but every time I go against him i feel people just throw random bullshit and some flow charts , I have seen bad players have raven in tekken god and he is bad in general but he is still not a easy character
Raven player, sometimes i feel like he's the closest thing to a zoner in the game but then all i do is crouch dash in trying to 50/50 or CH, dude definitely deserves to be somwhere at the top of this list tho, hard as shit
As an another raven man, I hate when he gets up in backturn... For no reason And sometimes u force Raven to go to backturn by some move, opponent trying to sidestep u and u still hit him BUT FOR NO FKN REASON u still in normal stance
One thing to note is that “difficulty” is only meaningful in so far as the level of effort you actually need in order to achieve results. That being said, character’s gameplans can vary tremendously in efficiency depending on your opponent’s ability. Meaning that sometimes an otherwise suboptimal strategie can become genuinely unbeatable such as snake edge spam against a warrior rank. So “How much effort does a player need to invest in order to achieve a result” will always depend on the average ability of your opponents. This is why you’ll hear some completely opposite opinions such as Bryan either being braindead or galaxy brain depending on who you ask.
On my personal difficulty list that's why I put Devil Jin at the very top. They've kneecapped him so many times at this point that he works very hard for maybe half the return that Kazuya gets so there's not much of a reason in playing him unless you just want certain gimmicks.
Correct. Difficulty should only refer to stuff like execution and how much you need to learn about a character. How good a character does against others is the stuff of regular tierlists.
@@holden6104 Wrong, Gameplan is a massive indicator to difficulty for a character, what are you talking about? What's harder spam 50/50 with hellsweep, electric and ff2 and f4 or actually try to fish for counterhits with Steve... Don't be stupid now bud that's one quick example that should make you understand how wrong that opinion is.
I know this is a hot take, but i just dont get why everyone says Bryan is super hard. I have 200 hours on him alone, and i reached fujin rather easily. Now i do get the argument (that being the execution), but i feel like the taunt tech (especially Taunt jett upper) is not required until you reach like tekken king. Meanwhile you have mishima players who know double electric combos all the way at Garyu. Now im not saying bryan is braindead or easy. I just feel that it's hard for me to see how he stacks up to the mishimas and steve in terms of difficulty.
this is also a hot take, i think, but the electrics are not at all insanely difficult. as a jin main, i am proficient in them and while electrics are vital to mishimas like kazuya, heihachi, and DVJ (not so much with reina and jin), i feel like with everyone now having 13 frame electrics makes it all the more easier to use for tekken 8, the inputs to me are much easier even. bryan, to my understanding, has less reward than other characters while putting SOME work into his gameplay. is he "super hard" in the end? i can't really say since i don't play bryan...
Bryan is mostly just hard cause he relies on his opponent messing up or making a lot of timing reads since he is so counter hit focused. QCB 1 alone made him a lot easier in this game tho
Ever thought the reason why Bryan was able to get to Fujin easily? Maybe because players from green to purple ranks don’t play Tekken fundamentally? Counter hit characters succeed greatly in green to purple ranks because players in those ranks rely on gimmicks or the characters moves itself rather than actually playing Tekken fundamentally. Bryan’s much harder to play past fujin, I’m a Bryan at Kishin rank, my opponents are Kishin-Tekken emperor usually, and Bryan’s difficulty really starts to sink in at that level.
Fujin is nothing special, I do not want to downplay your achievement by any means, but you can not really discern a characters difficulty in ranked. While Devil Jin is listed here as incredibly hard, he is very effective in ranked due to his degenerate playstyle which is hard to get used to in a best of 3. It is almost the same with Bryan, if you get hit by Bryan he gets super easy big DMG combos. If you are not versed in playing against Bryan you will get hit, me as a Bryan main myself always land atleast 2-3 Snake Eyes 3+4, 1+2 at the wall in every ranked match simply because people are not used to it. You can cheese wins easily that way and people don't have enough time to adjust. The reason Bryan is considered hard is because he has no good tools in the neutral. He doesn't have Dragunov's endless supply of plus frames, he doesn't have cheap moves that are hard to punish, he is honest through and through. He has to fish for counterhits / mistakes in the enemy offense to get his reward. Bryan gets harder to play if the opponent is better at the game, which is why you see Bryan rarely played at competitive events and even then every more rarely get high placings. Bryan is a high risk high reward character. He is not hard cause of his inputs(if we ignore taunt that is), he is hard because of everything else that is Tekken. He got some insane stuff like jet upper, which is one of the best punish tools in the game, and taunt (which is just guaranteed dmg) but they both are not enough to let Bryan excel like other characters that are just consistently good in every aspect.
“No gimmicks” for devil Jin, are you serious bro? I appreciate the character is super difficult to use, but he has WAY more cheese than Kaz and Heihachi.
Paul is NOT higher execution than Shaheen. In terms of optimized combos, Shaheen is no joke the highest execution character in the game. His execution is fairly simple in neutral, but the moment you land a launcher, you're looking at butterfly-loops level of combo execution to be optional.
Nice list! It seems like you find characters with less tricks (IE Shaheen Claudio etc) to be easier because there are less tricks to learn, whereas I would consider characters that lean on those character-specific tricks easier to play (as they rely less on fundamentals), but overall I like your list and explanations!
Putting King in that tier is WILD, u said it was based on how difficult was to have SUCCESS with the character. Dude, just watch the sajam slam and see how much shit a King gets away. Easy af character in tekken 8
It's a inaccurate list for sure. He's placed Yoshi that high up too😂. Yoshi is one of the most broken characters with a massive tool kit. This tier list is for sure wrong.
The "hard" characters he is listing require very little input on a hitbox to master. Meanwhile who he lists as "more difficult then average" Lee... requires an insane amount of just frame to perform in any capacity.
@@Morgan-Madsen Unless the tier list is specifically catered to your level of play, tier lists mean JACK. And also playing a character lower on the tier list doesn't increase your "Cool" or "Honest" level, stop trying to gloat. Arslan Ash's tier list means nothing to you unless you're telling me you're actually the 4th best player in Pakistan or smth.
Jun in very easy is straight up stupid, yeah maybe the Fujin Jun that spams strings is very easy, but that's not how real Jun is played. She has 3 stances that she can cancel out of with various moves, the mindgame she has to use to win are far more complicated than nearly all of the cast, her low game is just pokes without a single really threatening move, you really need to earn an opponent ducking as a Jun player by winning neutral interactions. People are also wrong when they say she is bad; she is not easy and she is quite good. This tier list overally is straight up a reddit/twitter ecochamber it feels like..
Among the characters of the game, I’d definitely say she’s among the worser characters. A lot of her attacks are slow and have end lag that can result in her getting hit out. As an actual character, I’d say she’s more about being a semi-zoner, semi-punish character. She relies on the range of her attacks more than most other characters. Victor can just shoot you with quarter circle forward 2, but Jun has her energy waves that reach quite far and are part of some of her more useful attacks. He down back 1 leads into a string that does 45 damage flat without any actual threat of missing the opponent. However, she really shines with her punishment. Demon slayer is a great launcher that gives her excellent damage and also acts as a great whiff punish. She also has wheel kick and violet that are counters. Then there’s the counter stance that most Juns and Asukas do that I’m not sure how to do despite her being my third most played character. Overall, I don’t think she’s mind games, I think she’s a punish character who thrives on when she can you whiff punishes like demon slayer or down back 1 1 combined 1 2.
Heihachi is significantly easier to me than Kazuya, and I main Kazuya. Kaz combo routes are extremely rigid and can drop depending on the axis and distance, you need to incorporate a lot of microdashes and on the fly conversions to make things work. Heihachi can convert off of basically anything with f3, in general his combos are much much easier. Neutral is about equally difficult, both characters are very steppable and have huge whiff recovery. Defense is easier for Heihachi though because of his insane parry.
bryan has one of the best neutral skip buttons in the game in qcb1 and that alone makes him at least a tier lower. people keep parroting opinions about difficulty from t7 without any original thought given to it, especially in regards to Bryan and Lee, characters that really got dumbed down in t8.
Having one move that skips neutral doesn't negate everything else. You're ignoring his gameplay, the execution, the lack of pokes, the high commitment Gameplay. Most of his moves are minus and unsafe.
@@LudenTr bryan's moves are minus, yes. But unsafe? Why would you say something so blatantly and verifiably untrue, thats just mindboggling. For the record - bryan has one of the safest movesets available out of tekken 8 roster. You should check it yourself before commiting to an argument where one part is true, and the second is an affront to reality seen in front of your eyes. Also execution, aside from tju which is unnecessary and rarely used even in tournament level, bryan's execution is medium difficulty. Most of the bnbs are easy too.
Wow looking at these comments and going by your list and also going by my own list… very surprising how different people really play this game and experience with it. So interesting to see
dvj main here, fundamentally he is not harder than kazuya or heihachi or reina since he is so basic fundamentally... but his new gimmicks are so much worse than all the new stuff the other characters have in tekken 8 that hes just so weak and hard to win with in comparison
Lol, raven is at least More Difficult then average cause of backstance... There are a lot of situations when u shouldn't go into backstance BUT the game decides to put u in it. More of all, there are a plenty of other situations where u force Raven to go into backstance BUT something goes wrong and u in normal stance Almost every Raven's lows is - on hit. He has only one low that pretty good and + on hit and it puts u in backstance but u need to be in crouch to do it
heihachi is not the most difficult. what he lacks is fixed in heat and warrior instinct, he is a literal walking 50/50, with insane pressure, homing and damage. he has execution requirements sure but i would argue a 12f launcher in heat is much better than a generic df2. 😅
@Sallyycxx I hope this is true. tekken 8 is my first fighting game, and I wanna main this character, but as a beginner, I don't wanna struggle with super difficult characters
@@Blaske-o4p don't worry about difficulty, the hardest thing about Heihachi are these moves that come from a stance called wind God step but you don't need to learn them as a beginner and over time you can start using those moves in matches, but what I'm just trying to say is play whoever you want.
To be honest though you can get 100 dmg combo without heat or rage with heihachi and those combos are pretty average in difficulty, ye max damage are hard, but why think about that when you can do 2 easy combos for kill
Come on, Heihachi's golden spark doesn't make him more difficult, it only makes him stronger, after all the rest of the cast can only have blue sparks to their best.
shaheen is easy but no one has tried his ws 3 loops or more maximized bnbs or high damage combos. he has some easy things but overall i say he’s in the middle.
Jin is the definition of Mid Tier difficulty. You get access to every tool you could need, but none of his tools excel particularly well. His D2 really isn't as good as people say once people stop mashing buttons and most of his strings give up your turn. Sure you get electrics without execution, but his electrics are also the worst in the game... Also his wall combos require quite a bit of execution. I'd say even Steve is easier in that regard and I mained them both. Sure he's not as hard as some of his fanboys claim and he got dumbed down a lot, but he definitely isn't super easy, especially once you get higher in the ranks. Also with every 4th matchup being a Jin, it means people will know his matchup, which definitely makes it harder to get away with some of his typical tricks.
@@Flintc08 Bro, nearly every character is busted in this game, except Steve, Zafina and Leroy, maybe Shaheen also. Every other character has been dumbed down into either a jack of all trades or a 50/50 monster. And the only reason I don't lump Steve in with those is cuz his busted moves all revolve around actually reading your opponent, otherwise he'd be just as busted😂 The game is filled with more BS 50/50s, evasive launchers and questionable CH launchers than any other Tekken to date. And don't even get me started on SS clipping😂
How about you buy a rope from best buy. People ask why people are so toxic when they hear their characters get attacked when it's easy to see people like you. Whoever your main is I hope he or she goes btw of Devil Jin in Tekken 7.
@@milliumorion1849buy a rope? To hang myself? The f is wrong with you? Jin is absolutely a mindless character. I’m not killing myself because your character carries you! You are coo coo
I feel like easy is extremely relative. This seems to be more leaning towards picking up a character versus being successful with one. Also defining success is very important. Is Asuka easy to pick up? Sure. Is it easy to reach god of destruction with her? Definitely not. I don't think that any character in tekken is easy. Simply because tekken in it of itself is not easy game. I feel like at a certain point your character doesn't matter as much as the opponent your fighting. Aside from Alisa, my god, I've seen emperor alisa's that definitely shouldn't have been in that rank
See the problem is your average player will never reach god of destruction cause god of destruction is rank only competitive players reach the only rank the average player can reach is tekken god but even the. most will just be stuck in fujin to bushin those higher ranks are their for a specific group that being the competitive players and players that know almost every match up.
Yeah the brain Dead Alisa players in top ranks has been a thing since Tekken 7, running into Yaksa rank Alisa players who have zero combos and not understanding the game at all is a very long running tradition with that character.
@@Notwedsquid Average players do not reach Tekken God the Average player sits in the middle of the rankings, Average can never be in the top few percent that's not how averages work buddy. What your referring to is a good player who is not quite at the pro level. Average in this game is around, let's be generous end of red to middle of purple, (i could adjust the 3 ranks to just the reds should we count all the players still hanging below yellow and that would be fair, reds is where i would put the average.) but average isn't any higher than that as the average player isn't that good.
@Notwedsquid I don't even understand the argument of this comment. Again success has to be well be defined. That's why I used such an outlandish example of it. The order of this list can vary wildly depending on your definition of success. If you define success by reaching the top rank then my point still stands that no character is actually easy. If you're definition of success is reaching vanquisher well then technically every character is easy to play.
he’s not, i main lee but i got bryan to tgs in less than a week, he’s not that difficult to pick up and he’s extremely strong currently lmao if ur not able to rank up with him it’s genuinely a skill issue
@@sleepenjoyer-on2dr in what way? a lot of chars have mix ups and knowledge checks, also get off me moves or gimmick moves to get out of pressure like azucenas b3+4 Bryan has to use spacing, timing and movement.
@@hablikos09you try playing her for the first time. You probably cant even transition out of scarecrow? Did you know zafina cant move backward in tarantula stance? Yeah thats what i thought
Good to know that 4 out of the 5 characters in the top tier of difficulty is ones I've said "ill learn this one next". Main DJ, kinda learnt Kazuya (need refreshing), currently learning Heihachi, and want to learn Bryan.
Honestly good luck with heihachi cause im also learning him and my god is he a struggle easily the hardest character in the game but he will be worth it.
I agree with most of your choices. But in my opinion, characters who have uniqe attacks in their move list: special inputs like Half/Quarter Circles Forward/Back, precise just frame inputs, Electrics/JFSkyrocket, Jet Upper, Instant Full Crouch, CD1's, Slide, DSS, Taunt, Crouch Canceling, Hayashida Step, a proper wave/crouchdash etc. - are automaticly more difficult, because mastering all these specialties, is straight up more difficult than a character like Acucena. I also think that the amount of stances + their transitions and the amount of viable moves also contributes to their overall difficulty. Because of that I think that Jin and especially King should be higher. Wavedashing alone makes these characters harder than most of the cast. Can you play Jin, King, Reina and Hwoarang without Wavedash? Of course you can. Are Jin and King easier to play than in Tekken 7? Yes they are, by quite a lot (same goes for Law & Dragunov) BUT real Character loyalists can show you the difference, between them and the average Joe who just uses the top 10 most broken and easy moves of these specific characters.
I feel like you gotta make a list like this with multiple perspectives going into it, not just yours. Either in a conversation with some other players or with some other kind of live input. Fresh perspectives bring more angles and a more fair analysis. I don't wanna complain about your decisions, since obv it's all opinion, but there are a LOT of placements on here that show how much we need some checks and balances going forwards for lists like these.
i respect your opinion on king a lot, he is the epitome of easy to play but hard to master, so many people put him down as just straight up braindead, where there is a lot of nuance to his gameplay at higher ranks. of course he has dumb stuff but who doesn't in this game? and id say kings dumb stuff isn't as egregious as a lot of others.
I can tell what kind of person you are based off of your placement of every mishima character. You're a glazer. And I'm not trying to be mean. It's just a fact. Electrics aren't hard. The only thing making mishimas "hard" are the players themselves and the mental stack they put on themselves thinking they are doing something extraordinary when they're not. Leo knk cancel f4 combos are harder than perfect electrics. Bryan 4-5 qcf4 combo is harder than perfect electrics. Lee's combos are literred with just frames moves and just frame pick ups. Mishimas are very lenient when it comes to their bnb and high damage combo.
@@Arshin143kazuya gets blue ranks probably easier than most of the roster while only employing strings and easy combos. Getting higher than tekken king is a different story.
@@bobbywasabi8014 He get's plenty reward. Bro can kill you with one ch and one mixup at the wall. Plus the install mechanic and qcb1 have given him a lot of extra strength he didn't have before. T8 bryan =! T7 bryan
Yea… I’m happy you made this video but Bryan is so sooooo overrated. I picked him up and destroyed everyone with him . People even messsged me about it. One of my friends thinks he’s my best character . As a LAW main, Bryan felt brain dead because he has combos where you can use the same move over and over again and it combos into itself and does more than 100 damage. THATS brain dead. Bryan goes straight to the easy character list. The only thing challlening about Bryan was his 12 frame launcher and even that’s wasn’t too hard… ( electrics are harder) And Bryan’s also a way better character than people say he is. He’s really good. On behalf of law mains, I’d like to say that law isn’t a brain dead character . People always used to say that law was one of the easiest characters in the game, when in fact, DSS In tekken 7 was harder than an electric Everytime I think I’m done learning law, there’s more to learn about him . He’s very deep. People who say he’s brain have never used him or gotten to tekken king or higher. But I’ll admit he’s easier in T8 but he’s far from brain dead… There’s so much misinformation that gets spread about tekken bruh…
feng shouold be in the brainrot category LOL stop saying feng requires braincells to play his win rate is higher than what you're saying in this video LOL DUDE proceeds to say he need time to learn feng LOL it only took me 30 minutes to know his whole kit.
Great video, but I think you didn't take game plan in your considerations when ranking Kazyua. TLDR: Kazyua probably has one of the highest floors but also have the lowest ceiling. Yeah Mastering a Mishima takes YEARS, but if you get to a high level of mastery with them, you are set for one of the easiest game plans. Look at how easily TMM took Heihachi and Jin to Tekken Supreme and his DVJ is Tekken God. While his Bryan his 2nd most played character and he is still stuck in Tekken God. Another point: there is a reason why most cheaters pick Mishimas: if you can handle the execution barrier you get one of the simplest characters to play because Mishima game plan is one of the simplest.
I'm a yoshi main who's never played a Mishima but picked up heihachi and has quit playing him 3 times in four days and picked him back up. Electrics are legit hard asf to pull off
Kuma main, and I'm able to 3 EWGF with Hei with combos follow-up. He is hard but not so hard to pull out because of the many tools they give him for defense, his offense has always been out of roof, even without electrics. Dude has also stance game while ALSO getting the same 50/50 of Kazuya...
@GodKingIssei yoshi abuser have you tried playing him? He's one of the hardest people to master in the game lol. Yoshi has around 200 moves and gets harder as you climb up the ranks lol. Yoshi abuser lol
@Mangix974 well if you are used to Mishimas make sense lol I'm new to them and struggling to get down electrics. I'll considering picking up a leverless board
@@CrossfitWarrior Flash, get out of jail card instead of 50/50, quick unblockable low, do i really need to fucking continue? Don't fucking bark as if this shit took skill to play, this isn't T7.
Bryan really isn’t hard, he does a shit ton of damage and gets a combo off any counterhit which he gets A LOT. He is also easy to play with a lot of good frames. Also put eddy in the lowest tier, come on man. He’s the scrub killer, the ‘press 3’ guy, he mashes and wins, and no one likes him. Easily the easiest character in the game😂
@@joelfrakes3602even if you don’t sidestep Bryan is a counter hit machine who relies on getting a read from the other player. Matches with other characters who are reading the player tend to be a slog yet very fun because it’s just a match to see who gets the better read. Is it the Mishima or is it Bryan who made the better read for a full combo
@@trevfisher4486 against big characters like king dragunov jack and the bears hes absolute nightmare fuel as you cant step qcb1 or FF2 so you can either tank with power crushes or duck which sets you up for a boot to the face though drags side step is good enough
"Nobody learns the Zafina matchup" is so wild considering she's been around since Tekken 6 and it's just the same excuse every time. This is the least amount of characters that will ever be in the game, if ppl are still sleeping on matchups that aren't even new they lost the right to complain
You know what’s crazy everybody wanted Eddy in the game then the vast majority that did , are trashing him. Eddy is actually pretty hard because once you lab him he doesn’t have effective punishes . He’s easy as far as set ups but to actually get up in ranks after everybody watched anti Eddy videos he’s actually pretty damn hard
kazuya is an interesting case because if he has a great pilot he becomes OP in my opinion, ive literally gotten him to high purple relatively easy and in a short spaace of time, im not a GOD destruction level btw but kazuya is not as difficult to rank up as people make it out to be. im willing to be corrected if im wrong but his propagenda is false in my opinion.
Bryan's taunt tech has waaaaaaay overinflated his difficulty tier ratings. Honestly, the only people who even do the this tech are life long pros like Knee and Mr.Naps. Even then, they barely ever use it in contest. It occasionally gets used as a tech trap, but that is it. It's incredibly optional to learn and really not needed at all for conventional gameplay.
interesing that you think jin has some difficulty considering that most people would consider jin to be bottom easy along with alisa and victor lmao and no way, jin is not braindead at all cuz if he was, his winrate woud be off the charts despite popularity, and more tournament players aside from like cbm and raef would invest in their time and money on jin than say... dragunov for instance. people have stated that jin has "no weaknesses" yet i fail to see how that is true. being all-round and "having everything you need" is also very vague when you see him in ranked pretty much all the time with the most basic matchup and his most "braindead" tools like d2 and dive kick could only take you so far, if your opponent is fundamentally a better player. that said, i always had the belief that jin is easy to use, hard to master. which isn't equivalent to "easy to win" at all. also, i think nina is just as difficult than mishimas if not moreso, she requires execution most people seem to think not since you could get away with heavy damage but the player needs to put in the work to play her imo and law is more than just cheese and slides, i can understand the bs he has and the cheap tricks some law players pull off but he isn't just a pick up and win character, i have respect for plenty of law players :P
Reina has (7) Stances. The 3rd most in the game. I think you're slightly downplaying her entire move kit a bit. People think she only has 2, but that's far from the truth. There's layers on layers on layers here that most Reina's are hardly tapping in to. I think she is truly at the 'Most Difficult' Tier List for sure. (I'm a Tekken King Reina Main)
" Jun plays herself" big lol there not gonna lie.. Think this tierlist is based on one question: which character requires the highest execution when it comes to tech, combos, etc. That is NOT the same thing as a character being "easy" or one that "plays itself".
I hate both characters but yes Hwo is not easy to play and has a lot to learn. Yoshi isn't 'hard' in the same sense, but strengths aside he isnt an easy character
Wait until you play against an opponent that actually sidesteps. Yoshi has like 3 homing moves. None of which combo or give follow ups and all of which are highs/punishable on block. His other tracking moves are locked behind stance. I promise if you are struggling hard against him start yolo sidestepping. Don't let him throw his linear moves at you bc they are dumb good if you allow him to be himself. I'm not saying he isn't super strong, just saying he really does have some blatant weaknesses that movement and patience will expose. As for hwoarang just duck after he begins his pressure. Once he is forced to start using his mids he gives your turn back or is punishable. Dont duck against him in neutral though.
Asuka is actually way harder then Jun by execution standpoint. Asuka needs really deep ff4 in every combo, some of them being really hard to time. She also has a -2 jab which makes her harder to play in poke game. You also need to use alot of her move list to make her work, there's no "Ima spam these 3 moves to win". King Rae Jr said it himself, this character isn't easy at all, it's just a miss conception because she used to be easy in T7. I would say she is average rn.
for Azucena I think because people counted on her wr3,2 and db1,4 they missed mastering her mixups/stances and setups, I believe with more time there will be good players that will show her potential.
No... I picked up Azucena post nerfes in 1.6... While I find Success with Bryan and Lee as harder characters... Azucena doesn't work unless you abuse mixups. Which become very reactable. She just doesn't work. She's good and strong but something is missing. She is not threatening in any conceivable way.
@@Kenkyou_Nogata I’m an Azu main. To play her you need to have good reads, solid defense and creativity. You have to play the mixups to have success with her
Alisa is definitely a pub stomper but getting results with her at higher ranks is very difficult, she telegraphs everything and her animations are slow. If you can't block her hellsweep on reaction at least 8/10 times you should probably just go ahead and play a different game.
As one of 12 Leo players on earth, I disagree with your placement of them. They should be mid average tier since their knk cancels require good execution.
I don't agree with Ling. Because her AOP got buffed, all what they have to do is do AOP after any minus frames because there is only handful of moves that can actually hit her. In t7 yes she is a specialist character. In this game only at tournament level not even in God rank.
I feel like depending on who you play the most and have learned completely a select few characters may be even more difficult to play vs others… unless your characters main combos are literally just one button :p
@@xavierpage8575i honestly love when people say bryan and king aren’t hard that tells me those people dont know what their talking about at all, also i agree with you
@@Notwedsquid literally it’s so annoying they literally never touched them just see the moves and assume it’s easy Bryan is high execution asf and then king everyone basically knows the match up aside from tech a you HAVE like his side step df 2, 1 combo into the side step instant shining wizard and much more moves setups u have to learn to progress
Sorry, this list is wrong, lol. Like Jin "average"?. Jin is made to be very easy to play. it's why every noob plays him. You also placed yoshi, who is one of the most broken and due for a nerf in the 2nd hardest catagory? Lol like wth, he's easy and has ridiculous moves. Jin, Yoshi, nina, alissa, and Drag are the most op in the game. They're meta characters. I've seen other peoples tier list. This one is like stuck in January. Very outdated.
As a Lee player I can even argue to put Lee lower he in the difficulty teirlist because they really pushed Lee being accesable now with b33, ff3 and 1+2 you dont even need b2 or ws1 2 loops now since b243 after your starter deals the same damage as the staple b2 and ws12 loops
@@Dyleniz Yeah quite obviously. B 33 is a scrub killer that's it, spam it you're gonna get blown up doesn't matter if you got it to hit 2 times in a round, ff3 safe but steppable, gives a decent knockdown with potential for long distance oki also a heat combo starter and -9 definitely a great move and practically the only thing that makes heat even have a purpose with Lee. 1+2 Has been in Lee's toolkit for a very long time, it's okay I guess what's so great about it? It's one of 3 of his tracking moves and it's slow as shit (just like his other tracking move bb4). CH launch tho so I guess that's cool. b243 was a screw in T7 has the same purpose pretty much, again what's so good about it... You say it makes b2 and ws 12 redundant but it doesn't they both have their uses and especially in the case of wall carry and recovery... The things you mention were all option selects in T7 too, apart from b 33 because it didn't jail on hit. That's the only difference. Really ain't seeing your point here tbh. Also combo's and launchers aren't the only thing that makes a character hard. Ill give you a couple examples with Lee; * t-rex jabs, to the point of notoriety * slide mixup nerfed heavy by slowing down his slide by 2f, no knockdown normal hit and shit frames on hit * Magic 4 and d2 nerf ( probably one of his worst changes from T7 imo, unbelievable CH tools in the past for Lee just gone or way worse) * His heat is useless for anyone that has put considerable time into Lee, you gain nothing from being good at JF's in heat apart from having access to ff3 launch and his stupid HS * Playing in negative frames constantly, this is a mindset thing with Lee and you really have to understand your frames to work it out properly * lost access to backturn launchers df 323 off of parries *high execution for combos in general, not his B&B, literally just linking launchers into proper combos, micro dashing b 33's everywhere. * pretty much all his JF +F moves are all high and can be ducked or interrupted. Hes got pretty good damage tho icl I honestly could keep going.
Bruh . Leroy is easy !? Dude is linear Af , weak pokes , awfull mids , df1 -6!, no trow game (literally only 1 grab setup - df4,1) , and he is hella unsafe in pressure . And if you miss Parry - you will get launch 100%.
steve yoshi and nina at the same level as like lily. steve has too much movement in a standing fighting game, nina simply to much pressure, yoshi breaks the game
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Hworang needs to be higher truthfully
Ew no thanks.
Glad you got a sponsor
Get that bag
Kuma is incredibly difficult because you have to fight against laughing so hard knowing you just did 70 damage on a single button while your opponent is screaming on the other side of the planet
Underrated comment 😂
@AshleyVsTheWorld he stops laughing when he realized he has to hold pressure or armor cuz he has no sidestep =/
@@akumarage217 My entire philosophy is fear nothing armor everything. Battle Ruler here I come lol
Fighting Kuma is almost always binary. Either I dominate or Kuma dominates.
This man got the raid shadow legends sponsor 😭😭 bro is going to fulfil his dreams of becoming a full time content creator
Annoying he has to take deals for shitty products no one wants to do it though
You def do not need to hit 3 EWGFs with Reina for combos.
Gotta stay “OPTIMAL” ya know
Yeah, she basically only ever uses 2-1 electrics in all her optimal combos. 3 electrics usually gives less or equivalent to 2 electrics
@@TheonlUii exactly and they mostly work on large males
3 EWGF + micro dash is super hard to do in practical quick match or ranked, you'll prefer mostly 2 or 4 EWGF, because except for specific matchups, doing heat burst after 3 electrics is mostly gonna drop combos because of weird hitboxes( the only ones that don't drop combos is against Jin, King, Feng and now Heihachi).
Also, Kuma is really strong but not very easy to play. Everyone knows(or should if they don't know) learn how to play with and how to AGAINST because it's still two different things. If you're used to good movement what so ever then try Bears and see how your kbd goes with them😅. In casual matches if you don't know the matchup, then you're doomed and prolly gonna losequit because of lacking knowledge on what bears can do and what they can't do...
Y'all should check Nino(4#Ranked Kuma vs Joka(1#Ranked Hei) match to see what it is to play with only safe move and open up a good defense...
I have two friends that play reina and kazyua they use hit boxes and Ewgf consistently and they only ever do two reps for their combos, you're not missing much damage for going with a way more consistent combo
Its interesting seeing Xiaoyu and King side by side so high up. I kinda get it though because theyre the opposite of each other; Xiaoyu is hard to do well with until you understand her kit/flowcharts but once you do she's *beyond* privileged and King is the opposite, being super strong early but really ramping up in difficulty once opponents use throw breaks and keepout, whilst not pressing into your armour moves.
You can't accurately throw break a King. You have to duck most of his command throws because there is no indicator an they counter hit.
Once you rank up with Xiaoyu, the opponents eventually learn how to easily shut her down and tying to win with her is like pulling teeth since you have to basically use her whole moveset to disorient the opponent combined with bating and evasions. Opponents will eventually wait out her shenanigans and poke and launch you out of stances and you’ll find out there is nothing more she can offer other than winning off of pure defense.
@@Cal3000 This is exactly my experience as a Lars main. One people know that f,2,1,LEN is the only true 50/50 and only safely doable on a double confirm, they all just duck dick punch you out of every stance transition.
Don't have to tools other characters have to compensate for the ass you face. I mean they just barely gave his 1,1,1 combo the ability wall splat. Something every other character has.
@@Morgan-Madsenyea you can, he has tells on all of his throws
@@Morgan-MadsenDisagree. Ducking his throws is just begging for damage as he has great mids, usually with a King player you get a feel for what throws they default to in what situations, if a King players back is to a wall you'll want to press 1 usually etc etc
Law is definitely braindead. Hard carry character for sure.
Carried by the horrible wifi
The absolute worst combination of difficulty-strength.
But this is a tier list discussing ease of playing not how hard theyre carried. Its just about piloting the character, winning is correlates yes of course. Law is easy to play but yet theres characters like alisa, nina, dragunov, king, etc that are much more oppressive. You saying he's hard carried just makes it seem like you dont know the matchup well. As it stands his win rate online is not good and hes one of the most well known matchups after 30+ years of tekken
@@sebastianmoscoso9404i had a law today that hit me out of my 50/50 despite me actually hitting them. I play lars so this tilted me really hard. Im honestly thinking about switching maybe drag since he’s cool. But i dunno.
@@Floridamangaming729 may i ask what was the skip level and rank of the law? Doesnt matter too much but can reflect their playstyle. In terms of lars hes tricky to deal with especially his 50/50s so it is understandable someone jabbed or simply attacked from the pressure, maybe it wasnt his turn but he ended up using a fewer frame movie than you did after your 50/50. Tekken 8 does encourage offense afterall compared to turtling. Id say dont switch just add a character to your roster. I started with law and now i learned lidia, i have both of them to fujin now. But it takes a long time for me to learn a character and i played them in t7 as well. I think in a few months ill try a 3rd character
I find the people saying "My character is hard because everyone knows the matchup" so funny because... Everyone knows the match up because your character is so strong and easy that EVERYONE is picking them.
so kazuya the third most used character in the game with the lowest win rate is easy?
@@JohnnyParadoxVXI Damn
@@JohnnyParadoxVXIhe’s not the hardest, he’s easier than heihachi
@@Invader.Xim.Yea but thats not the point here. He said everyone knows the matchup because everyone is picking these characters cause they strong and easy. But Kazuya is third most used character and he maybe not that difficult like hei but he is difficult
No, some characters like King, kazuya, jin or nina are simply legacy characters, means the older the characters are, the more known they are
The chart looks very satisfying since its a normal distribution. Average is the biggest slot, and the extremes arent overrepresented.
Asuka (and in extension, Jun) are designed for easy pickup, but they're not really easy if you want success competitively. So yes, they are easy to pick up, but not easy to win with. When you fight them, you kind of fight the player and not the character.
yeah sure
Yeah his take is straight trash. He clearly has a bias against her.
Even mainman, who admits he doesn't like asuka put her higher. On his difficulty teir list.
Please shut the fuck up. A fucking disabled person can pick up jun
@@berkaykilic5883so you can pick her up right.. and this is coming from a king main as well your character is easy af
I'm sorry, but there is literally no reason for Lee to not be amongst the absolute hardest characters especially when taking into account is heat/smash. Edit: im not saying he is the hardest ever since there is nuance here, but he belongs in the highest tier of difficulty and that shouldn't be a crazy thing to say.
Amount of "just frames" attacks instantly should put him in the hard/hardest category .
Just frames it something that takes at least one week to learn I don’t think it’s a reason to put him in the highest
I love how this guy moaned about Heihachi having 3 just frames when Lee has like 10 lol
Its not hard the just frame is, is just how hard is to set up and outbrain your opponent
Same goes with raven
@@ichsamkeren5382 No just frames on its own are exceptionally hard. To the point where people literally made acid rain trainers outside of Tekken to help with the timing. That aside lee's heat is a crutch for bad players who don't know how to just frame and his heat smash despite its most recent change is still the worst in the game by far. I dont disagree about the outbrain part either. And no i'm not even a Lee main
So awesome to see you getting sponsors now keep it up
As a raven main putting him on average difficulty is criminal. Definitely way harder than the characters in the orange difficulty. The understanding you need to make backturn and soul zone effective is crazy. It takes so mutch time to not get constantly screwed over by backturn. You need to respect everything and making people respect you is hard and he needs that to impose his gameplan especially on backturn in which people don't give a damn and press all the time so you have to make them respect you to be effective with backturn and one of the worst things is when raven randomly decides to get up on backturn and you get punished for it bad.
I am not a raven main but every time I go against him i feel people just throw random bullshit and some flow charts , I have seen bad players have raven in tekken god and he is bad in general but he is still not a easy character
As a Master Raven player I can't even figure out what he does
Raven player, sometimes i feel like he's the closest thing to a zoner in the game but then all i do is crouch dash in trying to 50/50 or CH, dude definitely deserves to be somwhere at the top of this list tho, hard as shit
@@Shadowwww682 man, I agree. I never picked up raven because he just LOOKS fukn hard lol 😂
As an another raven man, I hate when he gets up in backturn... For no reason
And sometimes u force Raven to go to backturn by some move, opponent trying to sidestep u and u still hit him BUT FOR NO FKN REASON u still in normal stance
One thing to note is that “difficulty” is only meaningful in so far as the level of effort you actually need in order to achieve results. That being said, character’s gameplans can vary tremendously in efficiency depending on your opponent’s ability. Meaning that sometimes an otherwise suboptimal strategie can become genuinely unbeatable such as snake edge spam against a warrior rank.
So “How much effort does a player need to invest in order to achieve a result” will always depend on the average ability of your opponents. This is why you’ll hear some completely opposite opinions such as Bryan either being braindead or galaxy brain depending on who you ask.
On my personal difficulty list that's why I put Devil Jin at the very top. They've kneecapped him so many times at this point that he works very hard for maybe half the return that Kazuya gets so there's not much of a reason in playing him unless you just want certain gimmicks.
Correct. Difficulty should only refer to stuff like execution and how much you need to learn about a character. How good a character does against others is the stuff of regular tierlists.
@@holden6104 Wrong, Gameplan is a massive indicator to difficulty for a character, what are you talking about?
What's harder spam 50/50 with hellsweep, electric and ff2 and f4 or actually try to fish for counterhits with Steve... Don't be stupid now bud that's one quick example that should make you understand how wrong that opinion is.
I know this is a hot take, but i just dont get why everyone says Bryan is super hard. I have 200 hours on him alone, and i reached fujin rather easily. Now i do get the argument (that being the execution), but i feel like the taunt tech (especially Taunt jett upper) is not required until you reach like tekken king. Meanwhile you have mishima players who know double electric combos all the way at Garyu. Now im not saying bryan is braindead or easy. I just feel that it's hard for me to see how he stacks up to the mishimas and steve in terms of difficulty.
this is also a hot take, i think, but the electrics are not at all insanely difficult. as a jin main, i am proficient in them and while electrics are vital to mishimas like kazuya, heihachi, and DVJ (not so much with reina and jin), i feel like with everyone now having 13 frame electrics makes it all the more easier to use for tekken 8, the inputs to me are much easier even. bryan, to my understanding, has less reward than other characters while putting SOME work into his gameplay. is he "super hard" in the end? i can't really say since i don't play bryan...
In higher level play, Bryan is absolute torture to play lol
Bryan is mostly just hard cause he relies on his opponent messing up or making a lot of timing reads since he is so counter hit focused. QCB 1 alone made him a lot easier in this game tho
Ever thought the reason why Bryan was able to get to Fujin easily? Maybe because players from green to purple ranks don’t play Tekken fundamentally?
Counter hit characters succeed greatly in green to purple ranks because players in those ranks rely on gimmicks or the characters moves itself rather than actually playing Tekken fundamentally.
Bryan’s much harder to play past fujin, I’m a Bryan at Kishin rank, my opponents are Kishin-Tekken emperor usually, and Bryan’s difficulty really starts to sink in at that level.
Fujin is nothing special, I do not want to downplay your achievement by any means, but you can not really discern a characters difficulty in ranked. While Devil Jin is listed here as incredibly hard, he is very effective in ranked due to his degenerate playstyle which is hard to get used to in a best of 3.
It is almost the same with Bryan, if you get hit by Bryan he gets super easy big DMG combos. If you are not versed in playing against Bryan you will get hit, me as a Bryan main myself always land atleast 2-3 Snake Eyes 3+4, 1+2 at the wall in every ranked match simply because people are not used to it. You can cheese wins easily that way and people don't have enough time to adjust.
The reason Bryan is considered hard is because he has no good tools in the neutral. He doesn't have Dragunov's endless supply of plus frames, he doesn't have cheap moves that are hard to punish, he is honest through and through. He has to fish for counterhits / mistakes in the enemy offense to get his reward. Bryan gets harder to play if the opponent is better at the game, which is why you see Bryan rarely played at competitive events and even then every more rarely get high placings.
Bryan is a high risk high reward character. He is not hard cause of his inputs(if we ignore taunt that is), he is hard because of everything else that is Tekken. He got some insane stuff like jet upper, which is one of the best punish tools in the game, and taunt (which is just guaranteed dmg) but they both are not enough to let Bryan excel like other characters that are just consistently good in every aspect.
“No gimmicks” for devil Jin, are you serious bro? I appreciate the character is super difficult to use, but he has WAY more cheese than Kaz and Heihachi.
The whole Mishima roster is cheese at that😂
@@dantheartist47 no it’s not, they’re the hardest characters in the game to use and they all still for the most part (except devil Jin) play Tekken.
He didn't only say that btw. He acknowledged DVJs gimmicks but DVJs gimmicks only become a factor once he has momentum and advantage.
@@christoferprestipino7433 another mishima elitist huh? yeah you play hones tekken all other people play gimmicks... go back to mainman bro
I main dvj. Please tell me the 'gimmicks' and 'cheese' he has. I seem to be missing it. I don't think you know what cheese is
Paul is NOT higher execution than Shaheen. In terms of optimized combos, Shaheen is no joke the highest execution character in the game. His execution is fairly simple in neutral, but the moment you land a launcher, you're looking at butterfly-loops level of combo execution to be optional.
Nice list! It seems like you find characters with less tricks (IE Shaheen Claudio etc) to be easier because there are less tricks to learn, whereas I would consider characters that lean on those character-specific tricks easier to play (as they rely less on fundamentals), but overall I like your list and explanations!
I am the one Leo player you were talking to lol. Thanks for going a little more in depth thank usual🙏
Putting King in that tier is WILD, u said it was based on how difficult was to have SUCCESS with the character. Dude, just watch the sajam slam and see how much shit a King gets away. Easy af character in tekken 8
easy af against trash players
@@myriadheartssthat makes him easier than whats said
There is literally only 1 pro king player and thats the jon. Its hard to push him to the professional stages
Dawg king is very hard
It's a inaccurate list for sure. He's placed Yoshi that high up too😂. Yoshi is one of the most broken characters with a massive tool kit. This tier list is for sure wrong.
I gotta remember this list does not apply to my rank because there are some really easy ways to win with the "Hard" characters here
The "hard" characters he is listing require very little input on a hitbox to master.
Meanwhile who he lists as "more difficult then average" Lee... requires an insane amount of just frame to perform in any capacity.
@@Morgan-MadsenFound the Lee player
@@BlobFGC LMAOOOO (im also a lee player)
@@BlobFGC Nope. I main one of the shittiest. Lars.
Arslan has him as 4th worst. I picked horrible this round.
@@Morgan-Madsen Unless the tier list is specifically catered to your level of play, tier lists mean JACK. And also playing a character lower on the tier list doesn't increase your "Cool" or "Honest" level, stop trying to gloat. Arslan Ash's tier list means nothing to you unless you're telling me you're actually the 4th best player in Pakistan or smth.
Play for a month with Lee and review your tier list
Jun in very easy is straight up stupid, yeah maybe the Fujin Jun that spams strings is very easy, but that's not how real Jun is played. She has 3 stances that she can cancel out of with various moves, the mindgame she has to use to win are far more complicated than nearly all of the cast, her low game is just pokes without a single really threatening move, you really need to earn an opponent ducking as a Jun player by winning neutral interactions. People are also wrong when they say she is bad; she is not easy and she is quite good. This tier list overally is straight up a reddit/twitter ecochamber it feels like..
Among the characters of the game, I’d definitely say she’s among the worser characters. A lot of her attacks are slow and have end lag that can result in her getting hit out. As an actual character, I’d say she’s more about being a semi-zoner, semi-punish character. She relies on the range of her attacks more than most other characters. Victor can just shoot you with quarter circle forward 2, but Jun has her energy waves that reach quite far and are part of some of her more useful attacks. He down back 1 leads into a string that does 45 damage flat without any actual threat of missing the opponent. However, she really shines with her punishment. Demon slayer is a great launcher that gives her excellent damage and also acts as a great whiff punish. She also has wheel kick and violet that are counters. Then there’s the counter stance that most Juns and Asukas do that I’m not sure how to do despite her being my third most played character. Overall, I don’t think she’s mind games, I think she’s a punish character who thrives on when she can you whiff punishes like demon slayer or down back 1 1 combined 1 2.
Jun is a character for absolute degenerates
@@secondheaven9545 She has a LOT of the fastest plus on block moves on the game. I don't find her weak.
@@nayd5043 never said she was. She’s just hard to rank up with because she has to utilize so much of her kit to consistently do well.
Heihachi is significantly easier to me than Kazuya, and I main Kazuya. Kaz combo routes are extremely rigid and can drop depending on the axis and distance, you need to incorporate a lot of microdashes and on the fly conversions to make things work. Heihachi can convert off of basically anything with f3, in general his combos are much much easier.
Neutral is about equally difficult, both characters are very steppable and have huge whiff recovery. Defense is easier for Heihachi though because of his insane parry.
Heiachi is easier than Kaz, who is easier than Reina
i love steve, he is my first main in tekken and im with him so far, glad to see him at the top, the most difficult=the best
Sure, Drag is laughing at you without execution
@@Cawe_Dazucena main detected
Steve is the hardest bro I would say Bryan after in my opinion
@@Coollegalass I’m the main of Steve’s mother and aunt. You said “the most difficult = the best”, but the best character is braindead easy aka Drag.
@@Cawe_D I feel sorry for u bro u probabaly really got hurt in ur life
bryan has one of the best neutral skip buttons in the game in qcb1 and that alone makes him at least a tier lower. people keep parroting opinions about difficulty from t7 without any original thought given to it, especially in regards to Bryan and Lee, characters that really got dumbed down in t8.
Having one move that skips neutral doesn't negate everything else. You're ignoring his gameplay, the execution, the lack of pokes, the high commitment Gameplay. Most of his moves are minus and unsafe.
@@LudenTr bryan's moves are minus, yes. But unsafe? Why would you say something so blatantly and verifiably untrue, thats just mindboggling.
For the record - bryan has one of the safest movesets available out of tekken 8 roster. You should check it yourself before commiting to an argument where one part is true, and the second is an affront to reality seen in front of your eyes.
Also execution, aside from tju which is unnecessary and rarely used even in tournament level, bryan's execution is medium difficulty. Most of the bnbs are easy too.
Wow looking at these comments and going by your list and also going by my own list… very surprising how different people really play this game and experience with it. So interesting to see
Claudio main here, got to fujin using wr2 it just works
dvj main here, fundamentally he is not harder than kazuya or heihachi or reina since he is so basic fundamentally... but his new gimmicks are so much worse than all the new stuff the other characters have in tekken 8 that hes just so weak and hard to win with in comparison
I think lars difficulty actually starts when people knows what your character can actually do
Lol, raven is at least More Difficult then average cause of backstance... There are a lot of situations when u shouldn't go into backstance BUT the game decides to put u in it. More of all, there are a plenty of other situations where u force Raven to go into backstance BUT something goes wrong and u in normal stance
Almost every Raven's lows is - on hit. He has only one low that pretty good and + on hit and it puts u in backstance but u need to be in crouch to do it
heihachi is not the most difficult. what he lacks is fixed in heat and warrior instinct, he is a literal walking 50/50, with insane pressure, homing and damage. he has execution requirements sure but i would argue a 12f launcher in heat is much better than a generic df2. 😅
Yeah, I don't get that hellsweep combo starter, like wtf? That attack is fast as hell and sometimes even safe on block.
Agree. Heihachi is not very difficult
@Sallyycxx I hope this is true. tekken 8 is my first fighting game, and I wanna main this character, but as a beginner, I don't wanna struggle with super difficult characters
@@Blaske-o4p don't worry about difficulty, the hardest thing about Heihachi are these moves that come from a stance called wind God step but you don't need to learn them as a beginner and over time you can start using those moves in matches, but what I'm just trying to say is play whoever you want.
This concept 100 percent reps me. I picked up heihachi didn’t know anything. Had to switch my 2 button to R1 electrics are so easy now
Jack has been outclassed by Alisa who has BOTH reach and mobility. I cry as a former Jack main. He has no specialty anymore.
To be honest though you can get 100 dmg combo without heat or rage with heihachi and those combos are pretty average in difficulty, ye max damage are hard, but why think about that when you can do 2 easy combos for kill
Thank you for the devil jin description XD, very accurate. "Forced to just stand there and let them wail on you." to real I laughed out loud
Come on, Heihachi's golden spark doesn't make him more difficult, it only makes him stronger, after all the rest of the cast can only have blue sparks to their best.
shaheen is easy but no one has tried his ws 3 loops or more maximized bnbs or high damage combos. he has some easy things but overall i say he’s in the middle.
Thank you finally for the eddy recognition
Jin should be in baby diaper tier. Ain’t no way a Jin player ever gets respect.
Jin is the definition of Mid Tier difficulty. You get access to every tool you could need, but none of his tools excel particularly well. His D2 really isn't as good as people say once people stop mashing buttons and most of his strings give up your turn. Sure you get electrics without execution, but his electrics are also the worst in the game... Also his wall combos require quite a bit of execution. I'd say even Steve is easier in that regard and I mained them both.
Sure he's not as hard as some of his fanboys claim and he got dumbed down a lot, but he definitely isn't super easy, especially once you get higher in the ranks. Also with every 4th matchup being a Jin, it means people will know his matchup, which definitely makes it harder to get away with some of his typical tricks.
@@marceloguia6107 TL:DR the character is busted. Not gonna hear any downplaying. Nerf him into the ground
@@Flintc08 Bro, nearly every character is busted in this game, except Steve, Zafina and Leroy, maybe Shaheen also. Every other character has been dumbed down into either a jack of all trades or a 50/50 monster. And the only reason I don't lump Steve in with those is cuz his busted moves all revolve around actually reading your opponent, otherwise he'd be just as busted😂
The game is filled with more BS 50/50s, evasive launchers and questionable CH launchers than any other Tekken to date. And don't even get me started on SS clipping😂
How about you buy a rope from best buy. People ask why people are so toxic when they hear their characters get attacked when it's easy to see people like you. Whoever your main is I hope he or she goes btw of Devil Jin in Tekken 7.
@@milliumorion1849buy a rope? To hang myself? The f is wrong with you? Jin is absolutely a mindless character. I’m not killing myself because your character carries you! You are coo coo
I feel like easy is extremely relative. This seems to be more leaning towards picking up a character versus being successful with one. Also defining success is very important. Is Asuka easy to pick up? Sure. Is it easy to reach god of destruction with her? Definitely not. I don't think that any character in tekken is easy. Simply because tekken in it of itself is not easy game. I feel like at a certain point your character doesn't matter as much as the opponent your fighting. Aside from Alisa, my god, I've seen emperor alisa's that definitely shouldn't have been in that rank
Have you also seen emperors shaheens, leo or lars damn how much unfamiliar characters can carry if opponent doesnt know basic setups or flowcharts
See the problem is your average player will never reach god of destruction cause god of destruction is rank only competitive players reach the only rank the average player can reach is tekken god but even the. most will just be stuck in fujin to bushin those higher ranks are their for a specific group that being the competitive players and players that know almost every match up.
Yeah the brain Dead Alisa players in top ranks has been a thing since Tekken 7, running into Yaksa rank Alisa players who have zero combos and not understanding the game at all is a very long running tradition with that character.
@@Notwedsquid Average players do not reach Tekken God the Average player sits in the middle of the rankings, Average can never be in the top few percent that's not how averages work buddy. What your referring to is a good player who is not quite at the pro level. Average in this game is around, let's be generous end of red to middle of purple, (i could adjust the 3 ranks to just the reds should we count all the players still hanging below yellow and that would be fair, reds is where i would put the average.) but average isn't any higher than that as the average player isn't that good.
@Notwedsquid I don't even understand the argument of this comment. Again success has to be well be defined. That's why I used such an outlandish example of it. The order of this list can vary wildly depending on your definition of success. If you define success by reaching the top rank then my point still stands that no character is actually easy. If you're definition of success is reaching vanquisher well then technically every character is easy to play.
I would say Claudio’s win rate would be attributed to him having just strong moves overall. SS4, DB1+2, WR2, FF4, B1, F1+2 & D1,2.
Congratulations on the sponsorship!
I guarantee you the people saying bryan isnt hard are not playing him at a high lvl (tekken emp and above)
Facts they think characters aren't hard because they can hit Fujin with them easily
he’s not, i main lee but i got bryan to tgs in less than a week, he’s not that difficult to pick up and he’s extremely strong currently lmao if ur not able to rank up with him it’s genuinely a skill issue
You can make the same argument for like 90% of the cast. We need to stop pretending that bryan is some kind of high iq character.
@@AzarathX. yeah mate.. i dont believe you at all, post a vid on your play data to your youtube shorts, cause im calling cap.
@@sleepenjoyer-on2dr in what way? a lot of chars have mix ups and knowledge checks, also get off me moves or gimmick moves to get out of pressure like azucenas b3+4 Bryan has to use spacing, timing and movement.
Great video way more in depth explanations then last time
Bro watched 40 minutes of video in 10 minutes💀
Zafina being in average with all of her stances is kinda crazy
Theoretically she’s difficult; gameplay wise she’s average because no one knows the matchup
She’s average bro some zafina mains win and they don’t even know how they did it because of her bs she’s a character who plays herself
Cut the cope, insanely easy character
@@hablikos09 agree
@@hablikos09you try playing her for the first time. You probably cant even transition out of scarecrow? Did you know zafina cant move backward in tarantula stance? Yeah thats what i thought
Thanks for being one of the few Tekken TH-camrs to not throw shade over Hwoarang !
Good to know that 4 out of the 5 characters in the top tier of difficulty is ones I've said "ill learn this one next". Main DJ, kinda learnt Kazuya (need refreshing), currently learning Heihachi, and want to learn Bryan.
Honestly good luck with heihachi cause im also learning him and my god is he a struggle easily the hardest character in the game but he will be worth it.
I agree with most of your choices.
But in my opinion, characters who have uniqe attacks in their move list: special inputs like Half/Quarter Circles Forward/Back, precise just frame inputs, Electrics/JFSkyrocket, Jet Upper, Instant Full Crouch, CD1's, Slide, DSS, Taunt, Crouch Canceling, Hayashida Step, a proper wave/crouchdash etc. - are automaticly more difficult, because mastering all these specialties, is straight up more difficult than a character like Acucena.
I also think that the amount of stances + their transitions and the amount of viable moves also contributes to their overall difficulty.
Because of that I think that Jin and especially King should be higher. Wavedashing alone makes these characters harder than most of the cast.
Can you play Jin, King, Reina and Hwoarang without Wavedash? Of course you can.
Are Jin and King easier to play than in Tekken 7? Yes they are, by quite a lot (same goes for Law & Dragunov) BUT real Character loyalists can show you the difference, between them and the average Joe who just uses the top 10 most broken and easy moves of these specific characters.
Jun being very easy and being called pick up and play. 😧
I feel like you gotta make a list like this with multiple perspectives going into it, not just yours. Either in a conversation with some other players or with some other kind of live input. Fresh perspectives bring more angles and a more fair analysis. I don't wanna complain about your decisions, since obv it's all opinion, but there are a LOT of placements on here that show how much we need some checks and balances going forwards for lists like these.
i respect your opinion on king a lot, he is the epitome of easy to play but hard to master, so many people put him down as just straight up braindead, where there is a lot of nuance to his gameplay at higher ranks. of course he has dumb stuff but who doesn't in this game? and id say kings dumb stuff isn't as egregious as a lot of others.
I can tell what kind of person you are based off of your placement of every mishima character. You're a glazer. And I'm not trying to be mean. It's just a fact. Electrics aren't hard. The only thing making mishimas "hard" are the players themselves and the mental stack they put on themselves thinking they are doing something extraordinary when they're not. Leo knk cancel f4 combos are harder than perfect electrics. Bryan 4-5 qcf4 combo is harder than perfect electrics. Lee's combos are literred with just frames moves and just frame pick ups. Mishimas are very lenient when it comes to their bnb and high damage combo.
Steve is far-and-away the hardest character in the game
King harder than Jin, Paul & Raven 🤣
Xiaoyu being easier than Kazuya is definitively a take alright
Kazuya is not easy
@@Arshin143kazuya gets blue ranks probably easier than most of the roster while only employing strings and easy combos. Getting higher than tekken king is a different story.
Ling players really trying to say shes difficult to play, Oh lord…
@@Sicknificant1 good point
Ling players must be extremely cracked to utilize their kit + have extreme knowledge of the game.
All I know is that couple these song makes me want to go shopping and customize my main
Bryan is so overrated
Extremely. He's not really as complicated as people think he is
@@GOTTA_RUNnot enough reward for him tho
@@bobbywasabi8014 He get's plenty reward. Bro can kill you with one ch and one mixup at the wall. Plus the install mechanic and qcb1 have given him a lot of extra strength he didn't have before. T8 bryan =! T7 bryan
@@GOTTA_RUN3 + 4 go BRRRR
True
Yea… I’m happy you made this video but Bryan is so sooooo overrated. I picked him up and destroyed everyone with him . People even messsged me about it. One of my friends thinks he’s my best character . As a LAW main, Bryan felt brain dead because he has combos where you can use the same move over and over again and it combos into itself and does more than 100 damage. THATS brain dead. Bryan goes straight to the easy character list. The only thing challlening about Bryan was his 12 frame launcher and even that’s wasn’t too hard… ( electrics are harder)
And Bryan’s also a way better character than people say he is. He’s really good.
On behalf of law mains, I’d like to say that law isn’t a brain dead character . People always used to say that law was one of the easiest characters in the game, when in fact, DSS In tekken 7 was harder than an electric
Everytime I think I’m done learning law, there’s more to learn about him . He’s very deep. People who say he’s brain have never used him or gotten to tekken king or higher. But I’ll admit he’s easier in T8 but he’s far from brain dead…
There’s so much misinformation that gets spread about tekken bruh…
Another delusional low rank dog downplaying braindead broken law while giving some bs about Bryan 😂 gtfo Orange rank ape
Shaheen shoud be in more difficult than average tier
18:56 really agree with that. hwo is really need a lot time to understand, especially for newbie like me :'))
feng shouold be in the brainrot category LOL stop saying feng requires braincells to play his win rate is higher than what you're saying in this video LOL
DUDE proceeds to say he need time to learn feng LOL it only took me 30 minutes to know his whole kit.
Great video, but I think you didn't take game plan in your considerations when ranking Kazyua.
TLDR: Kazyua probably has one of the highest floors but also have the lowest ceiling.
Yeah Mastering a Mishima takes YEARS, but if you get to a high level of mastery with them, you are set for one of the easiest game plans.
Look at how easily TMM took Heihachi and Jin to Tekken Supreme and his DVJ is Tekken God.
While his Bryan his 2nd most played character and he is still stuck in Tekken God.
Another point: there is a reason why most cheaters pick Mishimas: if you can handle the execution barrier you get one of the simplest characters to play because Mishima game plan is one of the simplest.
He spent a lot of time with Heihachi in T7, and Heihachi is busted right now, while Bryan is balanced but has more weakness.
I'm a yoshi main who's never played a Mishima but picked up heihachi and has quit playing him 3 times in four days and picked him back up. Electrics are legit hard asf to pull off
Kuma main, and I'm able to 3 EWGF with Hei with combos follow-up. He is hard but not so hard to pull out because of the many tools they give him for defense, his offense has always been out of roof, even without electrics. Dude has also stance game while ALSO getting the same 50/50 of Kazuya...
Yoshi abuser quitting because he doesn't get carried like the usual? No wayyyy
@GodKingIssei yoshi abuser have you tried playing him? He's one of the hardest people to master in the game lol. Yoshi has around 200 moves and gets harder as you climb up the ranks lol. Yoshi abuser lol
@Mangix974 well if you are used to Mishimas make sense lol I'm new to them and struggling to get down electrics. I'll considering picking up a leverless board
@@CrossfitWarrior Flash, get out of jail card instead of 50/50, quick unblockable low, do i really need to fucking continue? Don't fucking bark as if this shit took skill to play, this isn't T7.
Bryan really isn’t hard, he does a shit ton of damage and gets a combo off any counterhit which he gets A LOT. He is also easy to play with a lot of good frames.
Also put eddy in the lowest tier, come on man. He’s the scrub killer, the ‘press 3’ guy, he mashes and wins, and no one likes him. Easily the easiest character in the game😂
Bryan not that hard😂 Get out of low ranks and play him, you'll see how fast you eat those words
@@GodKingIssei It's funny how y'all say that about Bryan but then say exactly what OP said about Nina
My guy is playing against 2d players who don't side step
@@joelfrakes3602even if you don’t sidestep Bryan is a counter hit machine who relies on getting a read from the other player. Matches with other characters who are reading the player tend to be a slog yet very fun because it’s just a match to see who gets the better read. Is it the Mishima or is it Bryan who made the better read for a full combo
@@trevfisher4486 against big characters like king dragunov jack and the bears hes absolute nightmare fuel as you cant step qcb1 or FF2 so you can either tank with power crushes or duck which sets you up for a boot to the face though drags side step is good enough
"Nobody learns the Zafina matchup" is so wild considering she's been around since Tekken 6 and it's just the same excuse every time.
This is the least amount of characters that will ever be in the game, if ppl are still sleeping on matchups that aren't even new they lost the right to complain
You know what’s crazy everybody wanted Eddy in the game then the vast majority that did , are trashing him. Eddy is actually pretty hard because once you lab him he doesn’t have effective punishes . He’s easy as far as set ups but to actually get up in ranks after everybody watched anti Eddy videos he’s actually pretty damn hard
As a Steve main, some one finally validates my pain. 🤣
steve mains >
kazuya is an interesting case because if he has a great pilot he becomes OP in my opinion, ive literally gotten him to high purple relatively easy and in a short spaace of time, im not a GOD destruction level btw but kazuya is not as difficult to rank up as people make it out to be. im willing to be corrected if im wrong but his propagenda is false in my opinion.
Everything is easy to low ranks, play Kazuya vs TG/TGS/GoD and you will quickly learn how hard it is
Bryan's taunt tech has waaaaaaay overinflated his difficulty tier ratings. Honestly, the only people who even do the this tech are life long pros like Knee and Mr.Naps. Even then, they barely ever use it in contest. It occasionally gets used as a tech trap, but that is it. It's incredibly optional to learn and really not needed at all for conventional gameplay.
Ok totally unrelated to the video, but this is my first time seeing you Boogard and you’re so handsome 😊
Nah take back what you said about Jun. That's preposterous 😂
Reina is way harder than Kazuya and Heihachi. She's the hardest character in the game currently no question asked
interesing that you think jin has some difficulty considering that most people would consider jin to be bottom easy along with alisa and victor lmao and no way, jin is not braindead at all cuz if he was, his winrate woud be off the charts despite popularity, and more tournament players aside from like cbm and raef would invest in their time and money on jin than say... dragunov for instance. people have stated that jin has "no weaknesses" yet i fail to see how that is true. being all-round and "having everything you need" is also very vague when you see him in ranked pretty much all the time with the most basic matchup and his most "braindead" tools like d2 and dive kick could only take you so far, if your opponent is fundamentally a better player. that said, i always had the belief that jin is easy to use, hard to master. which isn't equivalent to "easy to win" at all.
also, i think nina is just as difficult than mishimas if not moreso, she requires execution most people seem to think not since you could get away with heavy damage but the player needs to put in the work to play her imo and law is more than just cheese and slides, i can understand the bs he has and the cheap tricks some law players pull off but he isn't just a pick up and win character, i have respect for plenty of law players :P
That had to be one of most delusional stuff i've seen in a while.. holy fuck
I agree, I already disliked the term Braindead. Every character has some difficulty
Bruh. You make great scripted Tekken content. Appreciate you!!! Another solid ass video 💯💯💯
Even if this is execution based. Claudio should definitely go in the easiest category, Alisa would be the easiest of them all.
Reina has (7) Stances. The 3rd most in the game. I think you're slightly downplaying her entire move kit a bit. People think she only has 2, but that's far from the truth. There's layers on layers on layers here that most Reina's are hardly tapping in to. I think she is truly at the 'Most Difficult' Tier List for sure. (I'm a Tekken King Reina Main)
" Jun plays herself" big lol there not gonna lie..
Think this tierlist is based on one question: which character requires the highest execution when it comes to tech, combos, etc.
That is NOT the same thing as a character being "easy" or one that "plays itself".
What he said is pretty valid, she does kind of play herself. She has the most forward progressing normals in the game
When i saw bryan is super dificult i laughed hard. Yoshi are you serious and hworang above avreage? 🤣🤣🤣
I hate both characters but yes Hwo is not easy to play and has a lot to learn. Yoshi isn't 'hard' in the same sense, but strengths aside he isnt an easy character
Yoshis my second main . And I’ll admit , his moves look harder than they actually are lol. It’s always been like that lol
Wait until you play against an opponent that actually sidesteps. Yoshi has like 3 homing moves. None of which combo or give follow ups and all of which are highs/punishable on block. His other tracking moves are locked behind stance.
I promise if you are struggling hard against him start yolo sidestepping. Don't let him throw his linear moves at you bc they are dumb good if you allow him to be himself.
I'm not saying he isn't super strong, just saying he really does have some blatant weaknesses that movement and patience will expose.
As for hwoarang just duck after he begins his pressure. Once he is forced to start using his mids he gives your turn back or is punishable. Dont duck against him in neutral though.
Fujin take
I main Bryan. My 2nd is Dagonuv.
(Waiting for Fakhumram)
I play first with Bryan than with Dagonuv. Ir's like nicht day and night
Asuka is actually way harder then Jun by execution standpoint. Asuka needs really deep ff4 in every combo, some of them being really hard to time. She also has a -2 jab which makes her harder to play in poke game. You also need to use alot of her move list to make her work, there's no "Ima spam these 3 moves to win". King Rae Jr said it himself, this character isn't easy at all, it's just a miss conception because she used to be easy in T7.
I would say she is average rn.
for Azucena I think because people counted on her wr3,2 and db1,4 they missed mastering her mixups/stances and setups, I believe with more time there will be good players that will show her potential.
You an azu main?
No... I picked up Azucena post nerfes in 1.6... While I find Success with Bryan and Lee as harder characters... Azucena doesn't work unless you abuse mixups. Which become very reactable. She just doesn't work. She's good and strong but something is missing. She is not threatening in any conceivable way.
@@Kenkyou_Nogata I’m an Azu main. To play her you need to have good reads, solid defense and creativity. You have to play the mixups to have success with her
@@Kenkyou_Nogata trust me. They’re not so reactable
Alisa is definitely a pub stomper but getting results with her at higher ranks is very difficult, she telegraphs everything and her animations are slow. If you can't block her hellsweep on reaction at least 8/10 times you should probably just go ahead and play a different game.
Jin is super easy... im sorry, defo needs to put down a tier.
As one of 12 Leo players on earth, I disagree with your placement of them. They should be mid average tier since their knk cancels require good execution.
I don't agree with Ling. Because her AOP got buffed, all what they have to do is do AOP after any minus frames because there is only handful of moves that can actually hit her. In t7 yes she is a specialist character. In this game only at tournament level not even in God rank.
32:18 bro this was so real
I feel like depending on who you play the most and have learned completely a select few characters may be even more difficult to play vs others… unless your characters main combos are literally just one button :p
A difficulty tierlist should only address execution. If you're talking about how hard the character is to win with, then it's just a regular tierlist.
I don't think Bryan and King are really that difficult.
Have you played king and gotten him to Kishin?
and can you hit Bryan’s taunt mid combo?
@@xavierpage8575i honestly love when people say bryan and king aren’t hard that tells me those people dont know what their talking about at all, also i agree with you
@@Notwedsquid literally it’s so annoying they literally never touched them just see the moves and assume it’s easy Bryan is high execution asf and then king everyone basically knows the match up aside from tech a you HAVE like his side step df 2, 1 combo into the side step instant shining wizard and much more moves setups u have to learn to progress
when it comes to advance stuff that will be the wall you'll hit, then both of them gets difficult to play
As a Ling player, I agree with you.
The only im disagreeing with is punishing a -14 or 15 with electric, thats kinda unnecessary. Its more a show of skill rather than a necessity.
Heihachi has more just frames but he is way more easy than ever. I would put him around jin
😂😂😂
Sorry, this list is wrong, lol. Like Jin "average"?. Jin is made to be very easy to play. it's why every noob plays him. You also placed yoshi, who is one of the most broken and due for a nerf in the 2nd hardest catagory? Lol like wth, he's easy and has ridiculous moves. Jin, Yoshi, nina, alissa, and Drag are the most op in the game. They're meta characters. I've seen other peoples tier list. This one is like stuck in January. Very outdated.
Difficulty ≠ power level
As a Lee player I can even argue to put Lee lower he in the difficulty teirlist because they really pushed Lee being accesable now with b33, ff3 and 1+2 you dont even need b2 or ws1 2 loops now since b243 after your starter deals the same damage as the staple b2 and ws12 loops
Didn't need to tell us you were Fujin bro
@@theoktonoswhy
@@theoktonos is this directed to me? I didnt say my rank
@@Dyleniz Yeah quite obviously. B 33 is a scrub killer that's it, spam it you're gonna get blown up doesn't matter if you got it to hit 2 times in a round, ff3 safe but steppable, gives a decent knockdown with potential for long distance oki also a heat combo starter and -9 definitely a great move and practically the only thing that makes heat even have a purpose with Lee.
1+2 Has been in Lee's toolkit for a very long time, it's okay I guess what's so great about it? It's one of 3 of his tracking moves and it's slow as shit (just like his other tracking move bb4). CH launch tho so I guess that's cool. b243 was a screw in T7 has the same purpose pretty much, again what's so good about it... You say it makes b2 and ws 12 redundant but it doesn't they both have their uses and especially in the case of wall carry and recovery...
The things you mention were all option selects in T7 too, apart from b 33 because it didn't jail on hit. That's the only difference. Really ain't seeing your point here tbh.
Also combo's and launchers aren't the only thing that makes a character hard.
Ill give you a couple examples with Lee;
* t-rex jabs, to the point of notoriety
* slide mixup nerfed heavy by slowing down his slide by 2f, no knockdown normal hit and shit frames on hit
* Magic 4 and d2 nerf ( probably one of his worst changes from T7 imo, unbelievable CH tools in the past for Lee just gone or way worse)
* His heat is useless for anyone that has put considerable time into Lee, you gain nothing from being good at JF's in heat apart from having access to ff3 launch and his stupid HS
* Playing in negative frames constantly, this is a mindset thing with Lee and you really have to understand your frames to work it out properly
* lost access to backturn launchers df 323 off of parries
*high execution for combos in general, not his B&B, literally just linking launchers into proper combos, micro dashing b 33's everywhere.
* pretty much all his JF +F moves are all high and can be ducked or interrupted.
Hes got pretty good damage tho icl
I honestly could keep going.
Putting King in that tier gotta be the most biased thing ever.
im shocked that your logic that you applied to the stance characters (like lidia) didn't put law in average tier
Bruh . Leroy is easy !? Dude is linear Af , weak pokes , awfull mids , df1 -6!, no trow game (literally only 1 grab setup - df4,1) , and he is hella unsafe in pressure . And if you miss Parry - you will get launch 100%.
This tier list is really bad and not informative sorry
steve yoshi and nina at the same level as like lily. steve has too much movement in a standing fighting game, nina simply to much pressure, yoshi breaks the game