Interestingly, in one of my training missions from Spangdahlem (F-4E), I was tasked against two F-15s out of Bitburg. My wingman ground aborted, so I told my backseater to answer all the "2" radio calls. I flew to the east end of the area and the F-15s to the west end. To make a long story short, I made Fox-2 kills on both F-15s. They never knew I was behind them until I made the radio calls. I had a similar mission flying out of Eglin (1 F-4E vs 1 F-15D). Again I made a Fox 2 kill against the F-15. My back seater locked up the radar and slewed out TISEO to the lock. I have a great picture of the F-15 in its break turn after our Fox-2 radio call to the detail that neither of the crewman helmets were looking back at me. The video is correct; situational awareness is the key to victory.
Watched an old F-4 (probably ANG out of Seymour-Johnson AFB) embarrassing the hell out of a F-14 over the Pamlico sound back in 1986 - for a good solid 3 to 4 minutes, no matter what that F-14 did the old F-4 hung right on his 6 O'clock - I couldn't help but laugh to myself that some old ANG Lt Colonel was teaching a shot nosed Navy Lt JG a serious lesson! 😂
@@lookythat2 Actually the ad was talking about the F-4, as McDonnell Douglas was in a bit of a dispute with Northrup over the F/A-18 and export sales at the time.
🤣Making a "brick fly with enough power". Great. RAF instructors used to tell students on the English Electric Lightning that the wings were "only there to keep the Nav lights apart" as they went supersonic in a vertical climb from takeoff! Great intro to the type.
"Yet, half an hour later six additional Phantoms were scrambled from Bushehr, and the Saudis reacted with four F-15Cs and two F-5Es. Meanwhile, Royal Saudi Navy helicopters made a search effort to recover the bodies of the crew of the downed Iranian fighter. Out of protest, the IRIAF immediately scrambled an additional six Tomcats and Phantoms from Bushehr, and the RSAF then reacted in turn, sending eight more Eagles and Tigers. The Iranians then increased their number to 20, and finally - according to several Saudi sources - the RSAF had no less than 25 F-15s and 18 F-5s in the air! These 60 planes mingled around in a limited airspace in some sort of shadow boxing, without closing or firing at eacht other, as neither side wanted to risk a conflict. After some time, the Iranian wing commander at Bushehr ordered his pilots back home." - Iran-Iraq War in the Air, Tom Cooper & Farzad Bishop, Schiffer Military Publishing Ltd. (c) 2000
From the end of May 1984 until Sept my ship USS Preble DDG-46 was part of the USS America battle group and spent most of our time after transiting the Suez and the Red Sea doing radar picket duties just off of Iran as we had the powerful AN/SPS-49 air search radar and the SM2 surface to air missile system. Every night I would sit in CIC and we could watch aircraft from either Iraq or Iran head out to engage their opponents. The Iranians did amazingly well, I believe mostly to their use of their fleet of F-14 Tomcats which they used as a form of AWACS due to their powerful radars.
The F-4 was ahead of it’s time. It has always been my favorite. The Israeli version was especially lethal. They did an upgrade and called it the Kurnas(hammer). They removed about 5000lbs of weight from the aircraft by replacing old wiring and other components. They also added leading edge wing slats and beefed up the airframe. The Greeks are still flying basically the same version of the F-4 (Kurnas) with a new radar system from the F-18.
Driving south from Amman (Jordan) to Wadi Rum in 1982, I well remember long convoys of green Russian lorries (GAZ-66s?) coming the other way, heading north from the port of Aqaba presumably to the Iraqi border. Their side of the road was breaking up from the heavy war traffic, so they drove on our side of the road until snaking across to their side at the last moment to avoid the bus, then back onto our side after passing. Our driver seemed most unconcerned, keeping our speed speed and direction steady in the face of hundreds of oncoming lorries. Forty years later, my buttocks still clench at the thought of that journey.
We were extending a runway in `83 an F4's would occasionally do touch n goes, when they would romp it and pull out they were louder than civilian 4 jet airliners taking off by 4 fold.
When I was on the USS Midway, 73-76, I could not keep my head out from Vulture's Row when F-4s were on the cat with afterburner. Could peek for a second or two, make a guess from airdale activity as to how soon to look again to watch the cat shot, but man, that exhaust was hot and loud.
I have a dear friend that was flying for the Navy twenty years ago (god, I hate being bale to say that!) that had this to say: "I fly a Hornet. Never underestimate a Phantom with a good crew." Apparently, he'd had a few practice engagements with Israeli F4's under his belt, and they tended to give as good as they got. I've always loved that plane. Yes, the Eagle is a graceful and lethal fighter, but I just love the raw power of the Phantom.
The pilots who engaged in this battle are known and they are of course Saudis, their names are Muhammad Alharthi and Majed Al-Ghesheyan, both were awarded a medal in an official ceremony by the defence minister Prince Sultan bin Abdulaziz, btw Saudi Air Force has AWACS by its own since 1980s
Imagine if you were in the F-4s, with a RWR that didn't know what band the new radar was utilizing- you would just think you were sneaky until your wingman exploded from a bvr mach 4 missile, and you're next...
Once missiles entered the picture, it didn't matter. A WW II plane could have had the same results, if it could have carried and launched the missiles.
@@grizwoldphantasia5005 There's a little more to it than that...and if we're going to factor it down to missiles, the F-14 has access to the AIM-54, which outranges anything an F-15 can carry, but is most effective against non-maneuvering targets (i.e. somebody who doesn't know they're being shot at). The AWACS on the Saudi/American side would nullify any potential surprise, forcing the two sides into closer proximity assuming thr F-15s can evade the opening salvo with the E-3's help.
Interesting. As a totally different aside,how about a video about WW2 Autogyros and their use for Chain Home radar system calibration ? A little known subject.
Regarding the US general that claimed no Americans were involved in the shootdown, I would point out us generals claimed no Americans were in Laos or Cambodia. You can take those assurances for what they're worth. Keep in mind the general doesn't make policy but he sure as hell has to follow it. So if someone in the state department, pentagon, oval office says to basically lie that's what he does. Tell the truth as a general regardless of orders you end up getting fired. I would reference Jimmy Carter firing General Singlaub for contradicting him regarding the withdrawal of US forces in South Korea. Jimmy Carter claimed he could pull all Americans out of there. Jimmy Carter didn't know his ass from a hole on the ground when it came to South Korea. Don't get me wrong I think he's a nice guy but he was a very naive president. He thought he could make friends with Ayatollah Kohmenie. He's the one who precipitated the creation of the Islamic State in Iran by cutting off the Payola to the moolas and Iran.
I agree fully with you, the issue is that Carter was not only naive but also out of touch with the reality, let alone military matters. I don't know what he was thinking regarding Iran, perhaps he was scared to be involved in another Vietnam kind of quagmire but he did almost nothing to stop Khomeini and to help the Royal family and their loyal people with the result that USA had a new powerful enemy.....
The statements of US government and any official have ZERO value. US has made lying into a form of art. A they are masters at creating items of the art of lying.
The fact extensive wind tunnel texting helped develop the F 4 i would not call it a flying brick it was made to go fast n did it very well n was a serious dog fighter when the Vulcan cannon was added . just u can't stop progress .
At the time I was a young cadet serving on tankers belonging to BP Tanker Co Ltd as was. It was rather hairy to be sailing around the area sitting on thousands of tons of aviation fuel when the s**t hit the fan. One stage we were rebadged as a UAE ship, the BP logo on the funnel being replaced with what we termed the "flying budgie". These days if anyone mentioned they were in what they refer to as Gulf War One I correct them and say no that was Gulf War Two.
Thank you for being objective about everything. These Ukrainian damage/mission videos other channels are doing have been driving me insane lately. Like both sides can fuck up even if we’re unofficial allies with them. War is complicated and acting like one side is infallible is dangerous and stupid. I’d like to encourage you to do more Ukraine coverage of weekly events.
In 1984, arguably the best air superiority fighter on the planet? What other plane would be in the argument? I mean realistically and not just being polite?
One story I heard about US aircraft against the Iranians was they had the US Hawk antiaircraft missile system. The US aircraft had antiaircraft radar detection systems from the Vietnam war that worked against Soviet systems but the Hawk used different radio frequencies. A work around was discovered as the Hawk system used the same frequencies as the USA police use for automobile speed enforcement. So some enterprising people got US domestic anti police radar detectors and mounted them in the cockpits of the F-14s. I have never read any offical story about it and it could be an "urban legend" but stranger things have happened.
I think it would have done well. It would have been 2000lbs lighter and have more thrust. The F-4 held most of the speed records until the F-15 came along.
Comparing F15C’s to F14A’s, the Eagle would do better in a dogfight with its GE F110’s and higher wing loading. But in this scenario the Tomcat would have an advantage since it’s crew would have had a lot more experience compared to the F15 pilots. Both aircraft are great, I personally wish the Navy was still operating the F14D
Very interesting video on the engagement between the two Mcdonald fighters, both among my favourite airplanes. But it must be said that both sides were handled by pretty green pilots but the Saudi pilots were already better trained compared to the apparently more experienced Iranian pilots but were badly trained because of the turmoil in Iran. Good job 👍 👏 👌
Sure, there were no Americans flying in the F-15s that participated in the shootdown . What I find interesting it that they used AIM-7 Sparrows for the shootdown. That was obviously a much upgraded version of the Vietnam War era Sparrow that liked to just fall off the rail. 😂😂😂😂😂
Hm. 11 minutes for telling the Phantoms were jumped? No dogfight? Just the plain old "they were stalked and never knew what hit 'em" ? Wow, great vid indeed. But very well presented, gotta give you that.
Awwww... I was hoping a Phantom had upstaged an Eagle! :-} I can't help but wonder what the wars in that regions have done to affect climate change, though..
"No Americans were involved in the shootdown" Yeah, because the first person I'd trust to be truthful about US military involvement in a foreign war is a US general.
All that build-up I was expecting a story of some hectic and confusing close quarter duck, weave and engage, not a couple of simple ranged lock-on missile strikes. Especially since the greater experience of the Iranian crews were re-affirmed several times. Sort of an anti-climactic ending to be honest. I guess history has to be told as it happens though in this case I would have liked a Hollywood version.
I thought about comparing it Korea, but the fact that both sides used significant air and armour as well made me think ww2 better comparison. Honestly, Vietnam 1975 is right too.
The Iraq Iran War, when Iraq was the good guys. Oh, how things changed. When the Iraqis invaded Iran they headed straight for the oil fields and once captured Saddam basically told the Iranians that's it. We got what we want. You can stop fighting now. For some reason the Iranians decided otherwise.
@@terrynewsome6698 My sense of humour, Terry. Having said that the West, and the Soviet Union, was quite happy to supply Saddam while he was busy keeping Iran busy. So whereas Saddam would not be on anyone's Christmas list he was tolerated. That is until he invaded Kuwait as Kuwait is on everyone's Christmas list. Yes I know Muslims do not celebrate Christmas but you know what I mean.
Both 'bad' guys, but for the West & Soviet Union, they could supply arms & keep the conflict going, weakening both of them. The only thing Iraq & Iran had in common was hatred of Israel, so ideal for West & Soviet Union to keep their attention diverted. Iraq invaded Kuwait to wipe out it's war debt to them (& possibly Saddam's anger that Kuwait & Saudi wouldn't send any troops, leaving Iraq to fight the war alone, but I don't know how much Iraq consulted anyone else before they invaded). Saddam was trying to become the 'Great Arab Leader' at this time, defeating the Arabs largest eastern enemy, the Iranians, who are Persian, would have helped his claim.
@@eze8970 If you check it out Iraq did consult the US ambassador about Iraq invading Kuwait and her answer convinced Saddam there would be no problems from the US.
This is so fucked up on so many levels. In the early 1950s, Iran is one of the poorest countries in the world despite its vast oil reserves, because they belonged to British and American companies. The Iranian people vote for a government that nationalises the oil industry, but aided by American and British intelligence services, that government is overthrown and replaced by a dictatorship, the shah regime. That regime behaves so violently that it provokes a religious revolution, which chases away the shah and installs a religious dictatorship. That dictatorship treats the Iranian people even worse than the previous one, but also preaches hate against the US and its capitalist interests. So the US and its western allies support another dictatorship that illegally invades said religious dictatorship which fights back with weapons that its "godless" predecessor dictatorship received from America. So two dictatorships fight each other, the western world buys oil from both and oil companies are happy about oil prices rising every time supply is cut short by another violent attack of one party on the other party's oil infrastructure.
Uh no, the older Iranian people still love that shah regime. Live was good in Iran, freedom, no islamic laws. It went all down when US/UK started intefering with Iran. It was UK/US who decided the shah needed to go, because the shah started daring to say "no" to US. Very similar to Syria, a islamic country with true freedom of religion and never ever any citizin seeing the need to flee the country. Syria, now in ruins after US ran out of bombs bombing it and initially supporting terrorists on large scale; Until the vid's of people being burned in cages were released ("thx" US). And yes, the US, not their mostly misled and propagandized population, has been bit of the very bad guy since WO II.
So it was not a fight. Simply a US directed missile launch platform shot two aircraft down who did not receive electronics updates for YEARS. I can guarantee you, if Iran was flying the f-15's and Saudi, i mean US the F-4's, the F4's would have shot down the F-15's. The support of a US awacs against fighters who did not know the awacs was used AND no ECM-support from anywhere, any non-stealth-fighter is a complete sitting duck; That includes the F-15.
Those two F-4 Phantoms were unarmed and were coming back home after a bombing mission over an Iraqi Facility. That was a cowardly act of Saudis two shoot unarmed Phantoms, 3 Iranian F-14s did want to engage in an air battle against the Saudi F-15s, but they didn't get permission to do so, because Iran didn't want another war against Saudi that time, over Oran-Iraq war, and Saudis they knew it!!! Saudi F-15 only able to bomb Yemeni children and families.
Interestingly, in one of my training missions from Spangdahlem (F-4E), I was tasked against two F-15s out of Bitburg. My wingman ground aborted, so I told my backseater to answer all the "2" radio calls. I flew to the east end of the area and the F-15s to the west end. To make a long story short, I made Fox-2 kills on both F-15s. They never knew I was behind them until I made the radio calls. I had a similar mission flying out of Eglin (1 F-4E vs 1 F-15D). Again I made a Fox 2 kill against the F-15. My back seater locked up the radar and slewed out TISEO to the lock. I have a great picture of the F-15 in its break turn after our Fox-2 radio call to the detail that neither of the crewman helmets were looking back at me. The video is correct; situational awareness is the key to victory.
Watched an old F-4 (probably ANG out of Seymour-Johnson AFB) embarrassing the hell out of a F-14 over the Pamlico sound back in 1986 - for a good solid 3 to 4 minutes, no matter what that F-14 did the old F-4 hung right on his 6 O'clock - I couldn't help but laugh to myself that some old ANG Lt Colonel was teaching a shot nosed Navy Lt JG a serious lesson! 😂
Well done sir!
Is there a place where we can see the photo?
And that feature (TISEO) was deleted from the F-15 as a cost cutting measure.
"We're building the F-15 to be one of the world's two most versatile fighters.... we built the other one too." -1980s McDonnell Douglas Advertisement.
The other one being the F/A-18
@@lookythat2 Actually the ad was talking about the F-4, as McDonnell Douglas was in a bit of a dispute with Northrup over the F/A-18 and export sales at the time.
Northrup got a real screw job from the government with the F-20 program.
🤣Making a "brick fly with enough power". Great.
RAF instructors used to tell students on the English Electric Lightning that the wings were "only there to keep the Nav lights apart" as they went supersonic in a vertical climb from takeoff! Great intro to the type.
I still love the story of the "inadvertent Lightning pilot" that was supposed to taxi and went airborne.
As we know the Lightening was so quick that on its maiden flight it went supersonic on its first climb to altitude.
"They were both built by the same american company..."
MiG Bureau: "Is this your first time?"
Lol.......👍👍
Ed, you have really become a part of my "most favorite" entertainment routine.
Glad to oblige ;D
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters I second that...and add that I am as much or more educated as entertained. Many thanks sir!
"Yet, half an hour later six additional Phantoms were scrambled from Bushehr, and the Saudis reacted with four F-15Cs and two F-5Es. Meanwhile, Royal Saudi Navy helicopters made a search effort to recover the bodies of the crew of the downed Iranian fighter. Out of protest, the IRIAF immediately scrambled an additional six Tomcats and Phantoms from Bushehr, and the RSAF then reacted in turn, sending eight more Eagles and Tigers. The Iranians then increased their number to 20, and finally - according to several Saudi sources - the RSAF had no less than 25 F-15s and 18 F-5s in the air! These 60 planes mingled around in a limited airspace in some sort of shadow boxing, without closing or firing at eacht other, as neither side wanted to risk a conflict. After some time, the Iranian wing commander at Bushehr ordered his pilots back home."
- Iran-Iraq War in the Air, Tom Cooper & Farzad Bishop, Schiffer Military Publishing Ltd. (c) 2000
From the end of May 1984 until Sept my ship USS Preble DDG-46 was part of the USS America battle group and spent most of our time after transiting the Suez and the Red Sea doing radar picket duties just off of Iran as we had the powerful AN/SPS-49 air search radar and the SM2 surface to air missile system. Every night I would sit in CIC and we could watch aircraft from either Iraq or Iran head out to engage their opponents. The Iranians did amazingly well, I believe mostly to their use of their fleet of F-14 Tomcats which they used as a form of AWACS due to their powerful radars.
I remember reading, that the pilot in the backseat was not an active US soldier, but a instructor from MDD.
Two F-4 Phantoms against two F-15 Eagles. A young boys nightmare. Thanks Ed for another great video.
F-15 Eagles guided by an AWACS, remember ?
It’s nice to hear about the political/military context in which planes are used, not just their technical specs and what they look like.
The F-4 was ahead of it’s time. It has always been my favorite. The Israeli version was especially lethal. They did an upgrade and called it the Kurnas(hammer). They removed about 5000lbs of weight from the aircraft by replacing old wiring and other components. They also added leading edge wing slats and beefed up the airframe. The Greeks are still flying basically the same version of the F-4 (Kurnas) with a new radar system from the F-18.
Driving south from Amman (Jordan) to Wadi Rum in 1982, I well remember long convoys of green Russian lorries (GAZ-66s?) coming the other way, heading north from the port of Aqaba presumably to the Iraqi border. Their side of the road was breaking up from the heavy war traffic, so they drove on our side of the road until snaking across to their side at the last moment to avoid the bus, then back onto our side after passing. Our driver seemed most unconcerned, keeping our speed speed and direction steady in the face of hundreds of oncoming lorries. Forty years later, my buttocks still clench at the thought of that journey.
We were extending a runway in `83 an F4's would occasionally do touch n goes, when they would romp it and pull out they were louder than civilian 4 jet airliners taking off by 4 fold.
When I was on the USS Midway, 73-76, I could not keep my head out from Vulture's Row when F-4s were on the cat with afterburner. Could peek for a second or two, make a guess from airdale activity as to how soon to look again to watch the cat shot, but man, that exhaust was hot and loud.
@@grizwoldphantasia5005 those engines within a few hundred yards felt like they were sucking all the air
I have a dear friend that was flying for the Navy twenty years ago (god, I hate being bale to say that!) that had this to say: "I fly a Hornet. Never underestimate a Phantom with a good crew." Apparently, he'd had a few practice engagements with Israeli F4's under his belt, and they tended to give as good as they got.
I've always loved that plane. Yes, the Eagle is a graceful and lethal fighter, but I just love the raw power of the Phantom.
The pilots who engaged in this battle are known and they are of course Saudis, their names are Muhammad Alharthi and Majed Al-Ghesheyan, both were awarded a medal in an official ceremony by the defence minister Prince Sultan bin Abdulaziz, btw Saudi Air Force has AWACS by its own since 1980s
No matter who won the engagement. McDonnell Douglas Wins
They also lost
They lose if the F-15 loses because then people would question giving up the F-4
Hello Ed , you missed the first ever helicopter Dogfight of history done in Iran Iraq war. AH-1 cobra vs Mil Mi 25
My USAF brother flew AWACS out of Saudi Arabia. He was training the Saudis the ability of that airframe & how to use them against an enemy.
tell the lad we appreciate his service, cheers
That was a well put together film. Thanks.
Imagine if you were in the F-4s, with a RWR that didn't know what band the new radar was utilizing- you would just think you were sneaky until your wingman exploded from a bvr mach 4 missile, and you're next...
Thanks Mr.Ed....Shoe🇺🇸
GR8 vid! Many thanx Ed. 👍👍
Great essay! Very enjoyable. I remember the kerfuffle in the papers of the times: nice to hear the background to the story.
In 1984! its arguably still the best
ty
Video with distorted aspect ratio (3:32) is to me the visual equivalent of people singing off key. I'm glad it didn't last too long.
Never expected anything better of Jamie, he hasnt kept the job this long without being a master of robbery
Loving your work fella!
Know what would've been stranger? If the F-4s were, instead, a couple of Iran's F-14s. Would've been interesting to see how they compare head to head.
Most likely the exact same thing! This was more a fight of intel than of planes!
Once missiles entered the picture, it didn't matter. A WW II plane could have had the same results, if it could have carried and launched the missiles.
@@grizwoldphantasia5005 There's a little more to it than that...and if we're going to factor it down to missiles, the F-14 has access to the AIM-54, which outranges anything an F-15 can carry, but is most effective against non-maneuvering targets (i.e. somebody who doesn't know they're being shot at). The AWACS on the Saudi/American side would nullify any potential surprise, forcing the two sides into closer proximity assuming thr F-15s can evade the opening salvo with the E-3's help.
@@z3r0_35 But if Iran F-14's dont know that Saudi F15's are there, then so what... :-)
@@alan-sk7ky The F-14s would've picked up the F-15s on radar before they got into range to fire Sparrows
excellent video as always
Enjoyed your video and I gave it a Thumbs Up
Interesting. As a totally different aside,how about a video about WW2 Autogyros and their use for Chain Home radar system calibration ? A little known subject.
Great video, Ed!
Another excellent video!
We all know how this was going to turn out......
great content as always!
Terrific video!
Regarding the US general that claimed no Americans were involved in the shootdown, I would point out us generals claimed no Americans were in Laos or Cambodia. You can take those assurances for what they're worth. Keep in mind the general doesn't make policy but he sure as hell has to follow it. So if someone in the state department, pentagon, oval office says to basically lie that's what he does. Tell the truth as a general regardless of orders you end up getting fired. I would reference Jimmy Carter firing General Singlaub for contradicting him regarding the withdrawal of US forces in South Korea. Jimmy Carter claimed he could pull all Americans out of there. Jimmy Carter didn't know his ass from a hole on the ground when it came to South Korea. Don't get me wrong I think he's a nice guy but he was a very naive president. He thought he could make friends with Ayatollah Kohmenie. He's the one who precipitated the creation of the Islamic State in Iran by cutting off the Payola to the moolas and Iran.
I agree fully with you, the issue is that Carter was not only naive but also out of touch with the reality, let alone military matters. I don't know what he was thinking regarding Iran, perhaps he was scared to be involved in another Vietnam kind of quagmire but he did almost nothing to stop Khomeini and to help the Royal family and their loyal people with the result that USA had a new powerful enemy.....
The statements of US government and any official have ZERO value. US has made lying into a form of art. A they are masters at creating items of the art of lying.
Great video
The fact extensive wind tunnel texting helped develop the F 4 i would not call it a flying brick it was made to go fast n did it very well n was a serious dog fighter when the Vulcan cannon was added . just u can't stop progress .
At the time I was a young cadet serving on tankers belonging to BP Tanker Co Ltd as was. It was rather hairy to be sailing around the area sitting on thousands of tons of aviation fuel when the s**t hit the fan. One stage we were rebadged as a UAE ship, the BP logo on the funnel being replaced with what we termed the "flying budgie". These days if anyone mentioned they were in what they refer to as Gulf War One I correct them and say no that was Gulf War Two.
Thank you for being objective about everything. These Ukrainian damage/mission videos other channels are doing have been driving me insane lately. Like both sides can fuck up even if we’re unofficial allies with them. War is complicated and acting like one side is infallible is dangerous and stupid. I’d like to encourage you to do more Ukraine coverage of weekly events.
In 1984, arguably the best air superiority fighter on the planet? What other plane would be in the argument? I mean realistically and not just being polite?
One story I heard about US aircraft against the Iranians was they had the US Hawk antiaircraft missile system. The US aircraft had antiaircraft radar detection systems from the Vietnam war that worked against Soviet systems but the Hawk used different radio frequencies. A work around was discovered as the Hawk system used the same frequencies as the USA police use for automobile speed enforcement. So some enterprising people got US domestic anti police radar detectors and mounted them in the cockpits of the F-14s. I have never read any offical story about it and it could be an "urban legend" but stranger things have happened.
I wonder how the Boeing Super Phantom might have done against an F15??
Probably decent depending on the weight to lift ratio. Could maybe rate with the F-15. What was the T/W like?
I think it would have done well. It would have been 2000lbs lighter and have more thrust. The F-4 held most of the speed records until the F-15 came along.
Best story.
Nash, I have a recommendation for the next 'fight' vid: Ogden War, 1977. Ethiopian F-5E vs. Somali MIG-21's.
I worked with an Iranian and an Iraqi that took part in the war, they were both ground troops and had some great stories, also some awful ones.
Not arguably, the F15C was THE best air superiority fighter on the planet in 1984.
psych 😒 the F14 is a superior fighter jet
Comparing F15C’s to F14A’s, the Eagle would do better in a dogfight with its GE F110’s and higher wing loading. But in this scenario the Tomcat would have an advantage since it’s crew would have had a lot more experience compared to the F15 pilots. Both aircraft are great, I personally wish the Navy was still operating the F14D
Gen. Spencer Armstrong 7:52
In Wikipedia Iranian prepared f-14 to intercept the f-15 after but then called it off is that true
Merica! F' yeah!
I didn't even realise that radar's had to be tuned. At least the crew probably never knew what happened.
... radars* (plural, no apostrophe)
C2ISR, dispersing the "fog of war".
Best to see DCS world games
I wonder how the f4 or fantom would stack up against the buccaneer
A fascinating speculation is what would have happened if the Iranians had been using their F-14's.
exactly lol the F14s would've moped the floor wit the f15s bro
Omg this.
So should I tell you about operation praying mantis
Very interesting video on the engagement between the two Mcdonald fighters, both among my favourite airplanes. But it must be said that both sides were handled by pretty green pilots but the Saudi pilots were already better trained compared to the apparently more experienced Iranian pilots but were badly trained because of the turmoil in Iran. Good job 👍 👏 👌
🙏🙏
Sure, there were no Americans flying in the F-15s that participated in the shootdown .
What I find interesting it that they used AIM-7 Sparrows for the shootdown. That was obviously a much upgraded version of the Vietnam War era Sparrow that liked to just fall off the rail. 😂😂😂😂😂
Bahrain, not Bay-rahn.
4:15
Ed, you pronounced Bahrain wrongly as Bay-Ran, when it should really be Bah-Rain.
See first, shoot first
Can we really call this engagement "head to head" ?
No.
It was by no means a real fight
In my wet dream I can imagine the Saudis F-15s engage the Iraqi F-14s.
do you mean irani?
Hm. 11 minutes for telling the Phantoms were jumped? No dogfight? Just the plain old "they were stalked and never knew what hit 'em" ?
Wow, great vid indeed. But very well presented, gotta give you that.
F-15 Eagle every day and twice on Sunday.
W saudi 🇸🇦💪🏼
When you say "Gulf Arab States", you probably mean "Sunnites" as opposed to "Shiites", because that's what alliances come down to in that area.
Awwww... I was hoping a Phantom had upstaged an Eagle! :-} I can't help but wonder what the wars in that regions have done to affect climate change, though..
Hussein-alikes 0:45.
"No Americans were involved in the shootdown" Yeah, because the first person I'd trust to be truthful about US military involvement in a foreign war is a US general.
All that build-up I was expecting a story of some hectic and confusing close quarter duck, weave and engage, not a couple of simple ranged lock-on missile strikes. Especially since the greater experience of the Iranian crews were re-affirmed several times. Sort of an anti-climactic ending to be honest. I guess history has to be told as it happens though in this case I would have liked a Hollywood version.
Sounds like a fairly standard engagement. Sneak up on the other guy and shoot him in the back. Fair fights are for idiots who don't want to live long.
"Since WW2" - why you always forget about Korean war?
I thought about comparing it Korea, but the fact that both sides used significant air and armour as well made me think ww2 better comparison.
Honestly, Vietnam 1975 is right too.
US sticking their fingers everywhere
Over 8mins to get to the point, also the ,F15c is not the Eagle it's the F15E
:)
The Iraq Iran War, when Iraq was the good guys. Oh, how things changed.
When the Iraqis invaded Iran they headed straight for the oil fields and once captured Saddam basically told the Iranians that's it. We got what we want. You can stop fighting now. For some reason the Iranians decided otherwise.
Good guy is a stretch. The us had the view that having both sides loss was the best option.
@@terrynewsome6698 The Enemy of my Enemy….
@@terrynewsome6698 My sense of humour, Terry. Having said that the West, and the Soviet Union, was quite happy to supply Saddam while he was busy keeping Iran busy. So whereas Saddam would not be on anyone's Christmas list he was tolerated. That is until he invaded Kuwait as Kuwait is on everyone's Christmas list. Yes I know Muslims do not celebrate Christmas but you know what I mean.
Both 'bad' guys, but for the West & Soviet Union, they could supply arms & keep the conflict going, weakening both of them. The only thing Iraq & Iran had in common was hatred of Israel, so ideal for West & Soviet Union to keep their attention diverted.
Iraq invaded Kuwait to wipe out it's war debt to them (& possibly Saddam's anger that Kuwait & Saudi wouldn't send any troops, leaving Iraq to fight the war alone, but I don't know how much Iraq consulted anyone else before they invaded). Saddam was trying to become the 'Great Arab Leader' at this time, defeating the Arabs largest eastern enemy, the Iranians, who are Persian, would have helped his claim.
@@eze8970 If you check it out Iraq did consult the US ambassador about Iraq invading Kuwait and her answer convinced Saddam there would be no problems from the US.
“….a brick fly”? Heyyyyy, talk nice about the F-4.
This is so fucked up on so many levels. In the early 1950s, Iran is one of the poorest countries in the world despite its vast oil reserves, because they belonged to British and American companies. The Iranian people vote for a government that nationalises the oil industry, but aided by American and British intelligence services, that government is overthrown and replaced by a dictatorship, the shah regime. That regime behaves so violently that it provokes a religious revolution, which chases away the shah and installs a religious dictatorship. That dictatorship treats the Iranian people even worse than the previous one, but also preaches hate against the US and its capitalist interests. So the US and its western allies support another dictatorship that illegally invades said religious dictatorship which fights back with weapons that its "godless" predecessor dictatorship received from America. So two dictatorships fight each other, the western world buys oil from both and oil companies are happy about oil prices rising every time supply is cut short by another violent attack of one party on the other party's oil infrastructure.
Uh no, the older Iranian people still love that shah regime. Live was good in Iran, freedom, no islamic laws. It went all down when US/UK started intefering with Iran. It was UK/US who decided the shah needed to go, because the shah started daring to say "no" to US. Very similar to Syria, a islamic country with true freedom of religion and never ever any citizin seeing the need to flee the country. Syria, now in ruins after US ran out of bombs bombing it and initially supporting terrorists on large scale; Until the vid's of people being burned in cages were released ("thx" US). And yes, the US, not their mostly misled and propagandized population, has been bit of the very bad guy since WO II.
Saddam Hussein? Never heard of.
the F14 is a better fighter than the F15 bruh 😒 facts
Kia vs mosting
@@gamesilverbbb8157 yeah the F15 is the Kia 😂 lol
The F15 makes me think of a Rottweiler due to the twin tail-fins that look like the ears of a Rottweiler.
No it doesn't.
Doberman, yes!
@@JohnyG29 Yes it does
@@stevewhite3424 No, it doesn't. Dogs don't have ears on their tails.
A lot of planes have twin tails.
one of the stupidest and most wasteful wars in the history of stupid wastes
So it was not a fight. Simply a US directed missile launch platform shot two aircraft down who did not receive electronics updates for YEARS. I can guarantee you, if Iran was flying the f-15's and Saudi, i mean US the F-4's, the F4's would have shot down the F-15's. The support of a US awacs against fighters who did not know the awacs was used AND no ECM-support from anywhere, any non-stealth-fighter is a complete sitting duck; That includes the F-15.
Those two F-4 Phantoms were unarmed and were coming back home after a bombing mission over an Iraqi Facility. That was a cowardly act of Saudis two shoot unarmed Phantoms, 3 Iranian F-14s did want to engage in an air battle against the Saudi F-15s, but they didn't get permission to do so, because Iran didn't want another war against Saudi that time, over Oran-Iraq war, and Saudis they knew it!!!
Saudi F-15 only able to bomb Yemeni children and families.
mmmm let me hear your coping louder please