Most people under estimate gt's power because they forget they've been training a lot of time after dbz, that's the first point and for me that's all, and imagine the distance between baby's arch and omega shenron, ssj4 is the fuckiest badass one
@@Geekdom101 another Dragon Ball youtuber named Broku did a great video on a GT character vs a DBZ character. I believe it was Super Vegito vs General Rildo. And about 90% of People who voted in a poll he did said Vegito would win in a fight. Just goes to show how some people sleep on GT characters. Thanks for the like and great video Geekdom!
Super Saiyan 4 is one of the all time greatest transformations in the lore. It's just so unique, and so different compared to the others, it is absolutely primal.
I agree in every way! GT may not be the most favorite Dragon Ball series out there, but if one thing is certain, it brought forth one of the best, most favorite forms entirely.
@Ignatius David Partogi tbf it has some lore behind it since that the angels are in that form 24/7 and they have white hair it is reasonable for goku to get the same appearance
@Roshan Ranjan listen my brother it is a technique but for mortals to use it they need to transform their bodies to adapt to it since it is designed to be a technique of the gods and whis literally said in the manga that roshi is not using UI but a strong resemble for it and in the anime whis said in the 2nd time they fought jiren that goku has already pushed his mortal body to fight like a god so it is a technique that needs you to transform your body to use it if you are not a god have a great day
Don’t be surprised if SSJ4 make an official appearance in Super if it comes back, it’s too popular. If Toriyama brought back Broly, then SSJ4 is. Strong possibility.
We don't know how strong Vegito really is during the Buu Saga though. He was so much stronger than Super Buu (who is most certainly stronger than Kid Buu) that he was just playing with Super Buu. He could had been only using 1% of his full power against Super Buu since he was just utterly toying with Super Buu.
People are REALLY delusional if they actually believe that any character from Z would get close to SSJ4 Goku lmfao, I understand some people don't like GT but come one...
Baby couldnt destroy Earth in 3 galic guns while Z Vegeta could in one which sets a pretty traceable baseline for GT power levels as around Nappa at best. Goku can drop 4 transformed states and defeat his enemies so the transformation in GT barely have any effect and his base form could be killed by a rotating fanblade in a sewer so the GT universe version of these characters are pitifully weak. Fuusion is also said to evenly combine powers as Goku told the boys not to waste energy they could channel to him by forming Gotenks so at BEST SSJ4 Gogeta is still weaker than Saiyan Saga Vegeta since hes an even combo of two characters around 1/3rd of Nappas power level. This is all simple math
@Muhammad Faiz The highest Zenkai boost was Cell regenerating from a single cell something so far beyond what a Saiyan is normally capable of its unreal and that still didnt match half a SSJ2 Gohan
@@TrollCapAmerica do not get cocky buddy you do realise that there is something called power output and please tell me that you are a troll thinking that SSJ4 Gogeta is at best as strong as sayian saga vegeta
@@isthatajojorefrence5271 I proved it with math. Math doesnt care about your opinion and mathematically the GT alternate universe series is pathetically weak. Its like Tenchi where its the same characters in different universes with differnt actual abilities
@@ljekanimation286 SS4 Is only equal to Buu Saga Fusion of Goku and Vegeta.. Keep in mind. Fusion is more potent as both fighters become stronger and obtain new forns
@@uigoku4276 Beerus clashing with Goku was sending shockwaves over the universe and destroying the universe somewhat. That's something Buuhan in Z could already do on his own. It's a really inconsistent feat people use to highball super characters, but that's just how I see it
It was probably talking about Ssj 4 Goku's multiplier. They never actually mention Goku, at all. There was a guidebook that did something similar with Vegito and Ssj 3.
Most likely trying to hype Ssj4 up. Power scaling wasn't as mainstream then, and SV was still considered to be strongest by the majority, especially those who hasn't seen GT. Comparing the two would bring in more people to see those arcs.
@@alpzel7085 Hence why I said reintroduce. DBZ Broly would've been stomped by suppressed base DBS Goku. But he was reintroduced to be stronger than Goku and Vegeta They could even make SSJ4 stronger than SSJB is they wanted to.
I can see the other day and doing it. Think about it, SSB is simply super saiyan with internalized ki. That means ssb3 and if for is introduced ssb4. Also we know SSJ4 is basically a physical body strong enough to easily handle the imperfect ssj3. Ever notice odd number firms are harder than even number. Hence even number variants are far better. Also note vegitas ultimate ssb which we can argue is basically ssb2.
Super Saiyan 4 is very unique to me. I was always a fan of the GT series. Super Saiyan 4 is a very cool transformation. Better than the blue hair super Saiyan.
@@powerjolt7215 I don't even think califla can beat base form gohan lmao, just because u transform to a super Saiyan it doesn't put u at a specific power level, any saiyan can achieve super Saiyan, no matter how weak
PowerJolt72 People like to point out “Caulifla was stronger than Super Goku so she’s stronger than Gt Goku) but for all we know, Super Goku was so fatigued he was probably weaker than his Z self (he couldn’t even hold ssj3) plus he still manhandled her and Kale
I think Vegetto would win, because his fusion has no time limit, so he'll last long enough to beat Goku SSJ4 *Potara Retcon has entered the chat* DAMMIT!!!
Ok but let’s say there’s no time limit to the fusion right but because of that you think vegeto could not be defeated if his opponent is stronger than him
This video was about Goku at that time, with that transformation... NOT about just SSJ4. As just the transformation doesnt guarantee you anything. It's power can be counted from your already existing base power... For example if you or me were able to go SSJ4 right now, we would be nowhere near those powers..
@@lightinstinct707 Gt is not actually part of The Z time line I will leave you a link to a video explaining this tomorrow. Gt and the movies are like their own dimension of the dragonball cannon.
Shane Strickland That is true but it does go through the events of Z as well. They reference multiple enemies from Z in Gt so I think of it as this was DB->DBZ(Filler and movies included)->DBGT DB->DBZkai->Dbs
Comparing different base forms is not an equal comparison here. You need to compare the same Goku using Super Saiyan 4 vs. Potara Fusion Super Vegito, where Goku has the same base in each form as well as a comparable Vegeta. The problem here is that it would be speculation who would be more powerful, unless there are concrete multipliers that can be applied with some known power level stats at base form.
Their has to be facts no speculations that's why I hate this tyle of videos because no disrect to the youtuber but they are not akira toryama so their opinion is not a fact and it's irrelevant and Poole shouldn't believe him just because he gets views amd he said it
Kim Base Vegito > SSJ3 Gotenks = 400x Base Gotenks > 400x SSJ Gotenks (pre-rosat) > 400x SSJ3 Goku Goku himself said SSJ Gotenks was stronger than him and could of obliterated Fat Buu. Despite that, the characters had no hope he could beat Super Buu and yet the narrative implied Base Gotenks (post-rosat) stood a chance. Since Vegito scales a good chunk above all of that, he's at least over 160,000x stronger than Base Goku. There's practically no evidence you can use to place SSJ4 at that level
I'm sorry bro but this madness has to stop. I get ppl "hate GT" and all that but surely you guys in the community aren't comparing Z vegito to GT ssj4 goku. You're kidding right? That translation was wrong bc I read those guides several times and it was alluding to the multiplier that a fusion would give you. Not vegito at that point himself. You seriously cant think that can you? Goku has progressed so much from that point that in GT he was enough for that vegito by himself in base. I dont get why GT has to be written off by everyone if the creator didnt even write it off himself. That's like saying saiyan saga goku can beat goku in super.
Base goku(beginning of series) = ssj3 goku(dbz) and then he got stronger and stronger in base so just imagine how strong he is at the end of the series, base goku(end of GT) could beat super saiyan vegito(dbz)
Wtf is this lowball.Goku base form is equal to ssj vegito,ssj goku equals ssj2 vegito,ssj2 goku equals ssj3 vegito,and ssj3 goku is much stronger than ssj3 vegito.Goku in super 17 arc is so much stronger that’s it’s dumb.
@@brotatoamvs4456 Please dont use universe 6 sayains in any power scaling arguments. Those sayains literally shit out the super Saiyan form and get become wayy to strong than they have any right to be.
@@ΗλίαςΣαραντάκος if he didnt need to then why he became a ssj😂 Atleast use ur brain dude Also in the manga vegito directly went to ssj and didnt even fight buuhan even for a sec Why?😂coz he was scared?
Think of it this way, Frieza did something that shouldn't be called training for 4 months and was SSJB level, Uub (Kid buu) who by default is like a thousand times stronger than Frieza trains with Goku for 5 years, who's going to be stronger? That alone answers the whole Super GT debate, GT Goku in his base form is easily stronger than SSJ Vegito, and that's not even the strongest base GT Goku, he gets hundreds of times stronger in every arc.
@-Xephyr- 😂😂😂😂😂👏🤣Bruh, what?? Wtf are you smoking? Uub has waaaay more potential than Frieza, Uub is literally kid Buu who was not only born waaaay stronger than Frieza, but he improves and learns at a much faster rate.
3 questions, 1. Can a fused character achieve ultra instinct??? (Vegito/ Gogeta/ Gotenks/ Kefla) if so would both individuals have to already to able to tap into UI or would could it just be only 1 of them that can before fusion?? 2. If Vegito or gogeta ever obtain ultra instinct even if it’s only the incomplete version. Does that mean that Vegeta achieved ultra instinct or would all the UI be coming from Goku??? 3. If Vegito / Gogeta achieve partial UI are still weaker then mastered UI Goku???
Yes, a fused character can achieve Ultra Instinct, as well as a transformation the fusees have never used, or tapped into before. An example being Gotenks... Goten and Trunks have never once achieved Super Saiyan 3, but their Metamoran fusion, Gotenks, was able to, even though Goten and Trunks both never did.
Pretty easy answer if a fusion is trained enough it could reach a new form or UI but in the case of Gogeta or Vegito they would already have access to the form via Goku having it but when the fusion ends Vegeta wouldn’t have the form unless he achieved it himself
@@josephisrael8959 Base GT kid Goku was fighting Goten who's around Super buu level and Gohan who also is above Buuhan and yet....Goku was fighting both of them using only Base. But I do think GT Gohan and vegito are equal. But Gohan with an slight edge
I don't really care who is stronger but I don't think it's fair to compare SSJ Vegito that's struggle a tiny bit against Buu's Vice Shout to SSJ4 and all his feats. Seeing the power jump from the fusion alone who knows how powerful he would be max power. I say SSJ3 Vegito Full Power (that we don't know and Goku can do that form) and SSJ4 Goku to the end of the Baby fight would be fair. I know he was compared to the beginning of the series but it was assumed Uub got as strong as Kid Buu.
Ssj4 goku was getting his ass kicked 90 percent of gt. A great ape baby couldnt even blow up a planet with 2 super galick guns who was on par with a boosted ssj4 goku
I feel that ss4 goku takes the win. Goku state that general rildo is above buu (didn't specify which buu but it could be kid buu) and base goku has no problem matching general rildo. Stacking ss4 on top of it makes him stronger Old kai (or kaioshin not sure who) said that baby vegeta 2 has power that they never experience before. Therefore baby vegeta 2 definitely outclass dbz characters. Also, ss4 goku has dragon fist which proof to be able to critically damage enemy stronger than the user
@superken54 "It was never stated that the Dragon Fist only damages enemies stronger than the user" Are you trolling? Since dragon fist damage enemy stronger than user, it will obviously kill enemy weaker than user. Goku is already stronger than ice shenron, so ice shenron would not survive dragon fist. By your logic, if goku full power dragon fist krillin, krillin would survive that?
Apekecik2071 Almost any charged Ki Blast attack can damage enemies stronger than the user. I.E special beam cannon against Raditz. Gokus Kamehameha he launched against Raditz was also several times more powerful than Goku was himself.
Zukari Shi actually it’s simpler. A charged ki attack and certain techniques will raise the users power level temporarily. So it’s not like a technique hurts stronger enemies, it just makes the user surpass them for a moment
vusa siw Yeah it’s not a specific technique. It’s just that Dragon Fist is a technique that raises the users power level temporarily like Kamehameha and Special Beam Cannon
superken54 he’s not saying the dragon fist only deals damage to enemies stronger than goku, read his comment again, he said that the dragon fist was shown to BE ABLE to hurt enemies stronger than goku which is true considering how ssj4 goku got omega shenron by surprise with his dragon fist and would have killed him if it wasn’t for omega shenron being able to regenerate
I just realized, since Buuhan has basically Ultimate Gohans power that means Ultimate Gohan is on Vegitos level, GT Goku in Base form held off both Goten and Gohan who never neglected training so that would make GT Base Goku alone Vegito level. SSJ4 has estimated Power Level to be anywhere from 500000x base to 1 Million x Base which means SSJ4 would undoubtedly be more powerful than Vegito. Even as SSJ3, Vegito would be weaker than SSJ4 and post-Baby saga SSJ4 would be leagues above Vegito.
It really does suck that so many people are quick to dismiss SS4 just because its from GT, and everyone loves to dump on GT because of how bad of a series it is compared to DB / DBZ, even before DBS was ever a thing. Now with DBS being a huge success, on par or even surpassing the success that DBZ was able to reach. Fans just want to act like GT never happens and that SS4 is a worthless transformation. While I agree that DBGT is nowhere near as good as the other series like DBZ, And DBS. DBGT takes place 5 years after all the events of DBZ and DBS takes place after the events of DBZ during the 5 year time gap between DBZ and GT. The only things that should be taken from GT and put into super are as follows. Super sayin 4 ( the more transformation the better), Uub ( I don’t know how their gonna make that happen because buu is still alive in super), teenage trunks and goten, and that golden great ape both Baby with vegeta’s body and Goku Were able to achieve ( let’s bring back the great ape form in genera), bring back the sayians tails. and finally bring over the entire storyline of using the dragon balls to many times and birthing evil dragons and eventually Omega Sherron, they don’t even need to use earths dragon balls it could be the super dragon balls that crack and have evil beings come out. Everything else can stay with GT
Uhhh gt isnt cannon do you really think ss4 would come after super saiyan GOD let that sink in for a minute Its all in the name Super saiyan GOD super saiyan 4 Does that sound right to you?
I think people dont realise how strong vegito was, if it is super vegito vs ssj4 then ssj4 but ssj3 vegito vs ssj4 goku ? I AM not so sure to be honest. Just think about it how strong kefla was in super and that can tell you how strong vegito was in Z, and btw i love ssj4 its a great form
People dont realise that vegito wasnt even trying against buu. His whole plan was to get absorbed to save his freind otherwise he would have oneshotted buu. Ssj3 vegito would smack a ssj4 goku. Keep in mind that great ape baby whom was on par with a boosted ssj4 goku couldnt even blow up the planet with 2 super galick guns lol
@@zachshipley1689 in that sense you're implying that a vegito from z is stronger than ssb goku. Goku training for 15 years already show that he's become much much stronger
I swear whoever wrote gt knew what they were doing by ending it off with goku as a kid because if he was a adult in gt...omega shenron wouldn't have lasted against ssj3 because his base power in gt is ridiculous
what most people fail to realize is that kid buu's strength wasnt just his ki level and reserves, it was his regeneration. without that, ssj3 goku would have easily wiped the floor with him. as far as vegito goes, we never saw his full power. remember, vegito had goku in it, which means that vegito had the ability to go ssj3. iirc, ssj4 goku hit rage shenron with a full power 10x kamehameha and had it rebounded back at him. it was enough to knock him out of ssj4 form back to base, but the actual explosion was pretty much miniscule. the androids right before trunks killed them did more damage.
To be fair, we can only really confirm that base GT Goku is at least Kid Buu level, and like was said, Vegito was holding back the entire time. Vegito was even suprised at his own power implying he does not know his upper limits. This puts into question if you can really assume babys genaric strongest claim can be applied to Vegito. It is also stated Vegitos multiplier is Gokus battle power times Vegetas, so even low balling Goku and Vegeta to Namek saga level the Potara can reasonably be argued above a 3 million times multiplier. Given the massive multiplier and the fact the guide states Vegito is comparable if not stronger than SSJ4 I think it's perfectly reasonable to say Vegito is potentially equal or superior to SSJ4 Goku.
Been looking for some feed from your channel and I couldn't remember it for some reason and got tired of the other fan made manga that I don't give a damn about. Glad a video popped up.
@@lightinstinct707 honesty being realistic gt goku would body most people in the torment of power. He still loves a good fight don't get me wrong (a bit more mature or not he's still goku afther all) but gt goku has shown that he's matured enough to the point that when his home is in danger he puts his love for fighting to the side to finish the job.
@@lightinstinct707 now with jiren that's a different story. Afther all it would just as possible for him to unlock UI just like his super counterpart but I feel like he wouldn't do good agesnt jiren. Without alittle help from vegata or his super counterpart.
The only way Super Vegito could beat SSJ4 Goku is if it's GT Super Vegito. I'm basing this off of how much more powerful Super Gogeta was than SSB Goku, and Vegeta in DBS Broly. I know the fusions, and transformations are different, but I believe it was revealed around the time Broly came out that Vegito, and Gogeta are on the same level of power.
Base Gogeta did for a brief time better than both blues so i think its fair to assume that base fusion=ssb at least and if that Statement gogeta=vegito can be trusted, same goes for vegito
Even if Vegito went SSJ3, he'd only be 8x stronger than in SSJ. He'd be 160x stronger if he could stack KKx20, but who knows how quickly he'd defuse then. SSJ4 Goku at this point in GT may even be hundreds of thousands of times stronger than he was in Z. Not to mention his SSJ4 obviously got stronger towards the end of GT. GT stomps, no contest.
Hey Geekdom! Sorry for the random question but, do you think the design of Jiren could have been inspired by the Engineer from Prometheus since they are both tall, muscular, with palid skin and black eyes? Also Toriyama's favorite movie is Alien and he paid homage to it by basing the design of 3rd form Frieza on the Xenomorph and Prometheus is part of the franchise. Edit: another small detail is the fact that kid Jiren wears similar clothes to the ones the Engineer is wearing at the start of the movie.
But Jiren's eyes are those of a gray alien. I think Jiren is based on Frieza, since the final form of the latter also has the same concept of "gray alien" and the ToP is very similar to his Z saga.
I actually think that SSJ4 Gogeta is stronger than ssb Gogeta , think about it he’s so strong he gets no time in fusion , while blue gets lots of time .
Blue would destroy SSJ4. The time thing is something that can't be taken as gospel. First, Toriyama didn't have anything to do with GT. Second, we saw the Potara fusion get retconned later, which makes fusions across arcs not necessarily reliable. And third, Blue has the power of gods. The gods are strong enough to destroy galaxies. SSJ4 is never implied to have that level of power.
I honestly thought ssb gogeta was gonna defuse mid fight But the thing is, ssj4 hasnt shown the same feats that even regular god form goku has, so the time thing isnt a good argument to that case.
My guy SSGSS Goku OR Vegeta molests SSJ4 Gogeta. Super Saiyan God Goku is CASUALLY threatening the universe by just clashing fists with Beerus and SSGSS Goku And Vegeta are making the Gods SHIT themselves. Those same gods by the way can erase SSJ4 Gogeta before he can even blink. Then you’ve got SSGSS Kaioken Goku and SSGSS Evolution Vegeta pressing Jiren who by just walking SHOOK THE INFINITE WORLD OF VOID SSGSS Gogeta bends SSJ4 Gogeta over, rips his pants off, penetrates and beats those cheeks inside out. And just like you said it’s even worse since SSJ4 Gogeta can’t stay fused while SSGSS Gogeta can go ALL OUT NO HOLDS BARED BALLS DEEP FOR 30 MINUTES
That's stupid by that logic future trunks who is 20 years from future would solo everyone in Dragonball z.its not about the time passed.that's irrelevant.
Great topic choice. I always wanted to hear some insight from other DB minds regarding that statement from the Perfect Files. I always figured that they were referring to a hypothetical SSJ2 or 3 Vegito from Z.
TheCristian11148 I don’t think so gokus base form is stronger than ssj3 goku when he fought buu then super Saiyan 50 times stronger than that ssj2 is stronger than that and ssj3 is 4 times more powerful than that vegetto is probably ssj2 gt goku level then ssj3 vegetto would probably be a little stronger than ssj3 gt goku but ssj4 is stronger
@@modernyin6275 Well there is the comparison to Rildo being similar to Buu. And why couldn't GT Goku be stronger than Kid Buu as far as GT is concerned he trolled the likes of Frieza and Cell who where known to be Ssj1 and Ssj2 Tier in his base yet fighting someone that is Ssj3 Tier in his base is consistent in as far as what GT itself has showcased and mentioned.
Dude. Offical statements matter more than powerscaling. Powerscaling isnt a thing. Theres not meant to be mathematical consistency. Theres no hard numbers at all. None of the writers are doing what you're implying. It's literally all in your own head cannon.
Power scaling actually makes a lot of sense and in fact in DBZ people would power scale like super sayian 2 or even 3 which would later be close or the correct to what the show would later confirm
Bro is this a joke? base gt kid goku is confirmed stronger than z ssj3 goku. So kid base gt goku is possibly stronger than z super vegito. ssj4 gt goku claps z super vegito so hard its not even funny
V i d e o s #2 that is a stretch because kid Goku in gt was limited to his full power and he had trouble going ssj3 because it was such a power draining form and even more so with him being a kid... yeah 15 years past so you would expect goku to be stronger than ssj3 during the Buu saga however him being stronger than super vegito is a stretch
I'm glad that fusion exists in both continues because it can bridge the gap in our understanding of the relative powers of the characters in GT and Super. Also isn't Super Saiyan Fusion implied to be slightly greater than a Super Saiyan Blue as well?
Yes, in fact, base fusion is stronger than two Super Saiyan Blues according to DBS: Broly. I know Heroes is well heroes, but they even implied that Blue Fusion & 4 Fusion is stronger than Ultra Instinct, but you can take that with a grain of salt if you wish.
I know I'm gonna get a lot of heat, but personally for me I say SSB Gogeta is stronger than UI Goku. Because fusion power level is different all together. Just look at Z, how both SS Gogeta and SS Vegito is way more powerful than even SS3 Goku and Ultimate Gohan. In DBS, we see how SS Gogeta is much more powerful than even two SSB user, a post TOP arc SSB user. SSB Gogeta is definitely on a whole new level because we know how far gap between SS to SSB.
@@shawziiz5031 I know how you feel man and I get what you're saying! Sometimes I want some of my favorite characters to be stronger (like Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta, Uub, Kale and Caulifla, and Jiren). The great thing that I think Super has taught me and hopefully everybody else too is that these characters are only gonna get stronger!
Let me put it in a different perspective, if Goku turned SSJ4 in the Buu arc, would he be stronger than Vegito if Goku and Vegeta fused in the same arc?
I think the statement is clearly saying that Vegito is stronger than a hypothetical SSJ4 Buu saga goku. SSJ4 Goku from the baby arc and beyond is definitely stronger than Vegito IMO.
DBS Goku in base>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all characters in dbgt.
What about Meta Rildo? I'm referring to when he combines with M-2. Depending on how the scenario is played, I could imagine that to be posing a problem for Buuhan.
@@diarawisteria2218 I see u on that 1 Although idk how he would get the sigma force to show up to the fight with him. Even then it's kinda dangerous cuz buu might just end up absorbing THEM too. Makes me wonder how machinery works with him. But this would definitely be interesting. Only problem is I don't remember rildo using many very many large scale ki blasts, so maybe he isn't very proficient with ki, which puts him at a huge disadvantage against a character that needs to be disentigrated
Start of GT Base Goku > End of Z Base Goku ~ Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku ~ Kid Buu > Buuhan Buu Saga Vegito/Super Vegito is somewhere in the ranges of Kid Buu and SSJ3 Goku. The Anime Comics Guide says that Vegito perhaps is stronger than SSJ4 as a form keyword "Perhaps" implying that Vegito and SSJ4 as forms are relative and since it says Vegito is stronger and not the other way around that means Buu Saga Potara (For Goku & Vegeta) >= SSJ4 Multiplier.
I enjoyed the vid could you do a vid about how super should have picked up after goku left with uub and how each arc could have work also with z character getting screen time
Mandaragun well that depends are we talking fusion reborn gogeta or are we talking a dbz what if gogeta. I'm pretty sure that ssj4 vegeta was =< ssj4 goku in gt so if dbz what if gogeta or fusion reborn gogeta is =< ssj vegito then the answer is yes.
@@YoYo-qf4ud The hell you saying? There is no such thing as SS4 Vegito in both Shadow Dragon and Baby arc. There is no SS4 Vegito in GT at all. Even if you just typo, you want to say Vegeta, still SS4 Vegeta is not exist in Baby arc.
Most people under estimate gt's power because they forget they've been training a lot of time after dbz, that's the first point and for me that's all, and imagine the distance between baby's arch and omega shenron, ssj4 is the fuckiest badass one
People seriously under-estimate GT characters don't they?
i think so sometimes
Dean Smith can you blame them tho?...GT fights were not good
@@Ntwadumela89 Hah and Super was🤦♂️
Kaka-Rot-El are you really comparing fight in GT to super?...super absolutely shits on GT dude lol
@@Geekdom101 another Dragon Ball youtuber named Broku did a great video on a GT character vs a DBZ character. I believe it was Super Vegito vs General Rildo.
And about 90% of People who voted in a poll he did said Vegito would win in a fight.
Just goes to show how some people sleep on GT characters.
Thanks for the like and great video Geekdom!
Simple answer...
SUPAH SAIYAJIN FUR.
Super Saiyan 4 is one of the all time greatest transformations in the lore. It's just so unique, and so different compared to the others, it is absolutely primal.
I agree in every way! GT may not be the most favorite Dragon Ball series out there, but if one thing is certain, it brought forth one of the best, most favorite forms entirely.
DragonBallEmpire gt is trash but ssj4 is one of the coolest transformations
@Ignatius David Partogi tbf it has some lore behind it since that the angels are in that form 24/7 and they have white hair
it is reasonable for goku to get the same appearance
@Roshan Ranjan listen my brother it is a technique but for mortals to use it they need to transform their bodies to adapt to it since it is designed to be a technique of the gods and whis literally said in the manga that roshi is not using UI but a strong resemble for it
and in the anime whis said in the 2nd time they fought jiren that goku has already pushed his mortal body to fight like a god so it is a technique that needs you to transform your body to use it if you are not a god
have a great day
Monke is too powerful
Always look forward to your videos man. It always makes my day better no matter what’s going on in life. Just wanted to say thanks.
thank you!
Super Saiyan 4 is the coolest transformation
@Kelvin Issac noooooot canon
Nah ssj4 is my least fave transformation
@@yunusbbx8497 always that one guy
You're wrong.
Don’t be surprised if SSJ4 make an official appearance in Super if it comes back, it’s too popular. If Toriyama brought back Broly, then SSJ4 is. Strong possibility.
We don't know how strong Vegito really is during the Buu Saga though. He was so much stronger than Super Buu (who is most certainly stronger than Kid Buu) that he was just playing with Super Buu. He could had been only using 1% of his full power against Super Buu since he was just utterly toying with Super Buu.
People are REALLY delusional if they actually believe that any character from Z would get close to SSJ4 Goku lmfao, I understand some people don't like GT but come one...
Baby couldnt destroy Earth in 3 galic guns while Z Vegeta could in one which sets a pretty traceable baseline for GT power levels as around Nappa at best. Goku can drop 4 transformed states and defeat his enemies so the transformation in GT barely have any effect and his base form could be killed by a rotating fanblade in a sewer so the GT universe version of these characters are pitifully weak. Fuusion is also said to evenly combine powers as Goku told the boys not to waste energy they could channel to him by forming Gotenks so at BEST SSJ4 Gogeta is still weaker than Saiyan Saga Vegeta since hes an even combo of two characters around 1/3rd of Nappas power level. This is all simple math
@Muhammad Faiz The highest Zenkai boost was Cell regenerating from a single cell something so far beyond what a Saiyan is normally capable of its unreal and that still didnt match half a SSJ2 Gohan
@DIO Yedek Hesap You just cant handle my elite mathematical skills and objective facts based on reason
@@TrollCapAmerica do not get cocky buddy you do realise that there is something called power output and please tell me that you are a troll thinking that SSJ4 Gogeta is at best as strong as sayian saga vegeta
@@isthatajojorefrence5271 I proved it with math. Math doesnt care about your opinion and mathematically the GT alternate universe series is pathetically weak. Its like Tenchi where its the same characters in different universes with differnt actual abilities
*Im pretty sure the "your punches tickle" describes it all*
Well considering they both said that at one point
3:30 Haven't we already established that Kid Buu is just more "dangerous" than Majin Buu, not more "powerful"?
I think he was comparing kid buu to fat buu, not kid buu to buuhan.
@Ignatius David Partogi I know
Kid Buu is sufficiently stronger than Majin Buu as he is all the evil that dwells within Majin Buu..
@@iipandadubs2269 not as strong as super buu
@@alfa01spotivo ik
I always thought they were comparing a theoretical SSJ4 Goku in Z vs Vegito which wouldn’t be a stretch if it was stated that way
I thought that at first, too! Both are interesting.
Yes, the files was comparing hypothetical buu saga Super Saiyan 4 to Buu Saga Vegito.. Some fans We're taking the words out of context.
@@ljekanimation286 SS4 Is only equal to Buu Saga Fusion of Goku and Vegeta.. Keep in mind. Fusion is more potent as both fighters become stronger and obtain new forns
@@ljekanimation286 No Buuhan Feats Is Universal Through Chain Reaction.. Vegito was Simply putting a Stop to Buuhan's Attack.
@@ljekanimation286 Again, Buuhan attack is only Universal Attck chain reaction.
I say Goku
And I say let it die
DBZ Vegito could have probably went SSJ3 but SSJ4 would have still done the same to Super buu Gohan absorbed
Same, on the condition Vegeto doesnt go beyond ssj1.
@superken54 Its possible the raw power and speed of Vegito/Gogeta could compete with MUI Goku
@superken54 Bitch, did i stutter?
People really love low-balling GT feats.
Heavily low-balling.. To the point where some people think Caulifla can beat SSJ4 GOGETA!!? Fcking SSJ4 Gogeta!!
@Ignatius David Partogi EXACTLY!
@Ignatius David Partogi People tend to think SSG is millions of times stronger than SSJ3 and since he presumably has that on his base his stronger...
@@powerjolt7215 it was shown that ssg is universe buster maybe it is the reason why people state that it has that much multiplier
@@uigoku4276 Beerus clashing with Goku was sending shockwaves over the universe and destroying the universe somewhat. That's something Buuhan in Z could already do on his own. It's a really inconsistent feat people use to highball super characters, but that's just how I see it
I think that the potara fusion is like a ssj4 boost of power
Super bebi 1 was stronger than Super Vegito nevermind SSJ4 Goku.
No idea why the DBGT animanga says they might be close.
They were probably comparing Vegito if he was in GT or if SSJ4 was in Z.
@@Red-Rebel there don't normally do that
It was probably talking about Ssj 4 Goku's multiplier. They never actually mention Goku, at all. There was a guidebook that did something similar with Vegito and Ssj 3.
I heard Mr popo and kibito said vegito is stronger
Most likely trying to hype Ssj4 up. Power scaling wasn't as mainstream then, and SV was still considered to be strongest by the majority, especially those who hasn't seen GT. Comparing the two would bring in more people to see those arcs.
SSJ4 GOKU IS THE BEST FORM EVER
@JACQUEZ JOHNSON I'm saying this not off of strength but just aesthetics
Super Saiyan 4 Goku :D ^_^
Super saiyan 4 maybe not the strongest but its too strong, and most beautifull form ever
I hope SSJ4 is re-introduced to DBS in the future, the form is too badass
There would be no need for it since SSB is slightly stronger
@@alpzel7085 Hence why I said reintroduce. DBZ Broly would've been stomped by suppressed base DBS Goku. But he was reintroduced to be stronger than Goku and Vegeta They could even make SSJ4 stronger than SSJB is they wanted to.
Eijiro Kirishima Ssb is was superior lmao
Anthony Re-introducing it would make it canon genius
I can see the other day and doing it. Think about it, SSB is simply super saiyan with internalized ki. That means ssb3 and if for is introduced ssb4. Also we know SSJ4 is basically a physical body strong enough to easily handle the imperfect ssj3. Ever notice odd number firms are harder than even number. Hence even number variants are far better. Also note vegitas ultimate ssb which we can argue is basically ssb2.
This is a good topic
I’ve been waiting for this, for years. And now my long wanted answer is here.
looooooong have yoiu waited
Geekdom101 Bro since the mid 2000’s.
Dante dam
Super Saiyan 4 is very unique to me. I was always a fan of the GT series.
Super Saiyan 4 is a very cool transformation. Better than the blue hair super Saiyan.
Some people may chose not to believe although it's true ssj4 is the true form of a saiyan for who archived ssj
Agree
It think the guide means IF Goku and Vegeta from GT would make a SSJ Vegito, it would be stronger than SSj4 Goku. Then it makes perfect sense to me.
That's what I thought too lol
People who disagree probably hate gt on a whole different level lol
That's a FACT! Some people think Caulifla can beat SSJ4 Gogeta even!?! I mean WTF Caulifla is nothing to GT Goku let alone Gogeta...
@@powerjolt7215 I don't even think califla can beat base form gohan lmao, just because u transform to a super Saiyan it doesn't put u at a specific power level, any saiyan can achieve super Saiyan, no matter how weak
@@TxCoby Yup
PowerJolt72 People like to point out “Caulifla was stronger than Super Goku so she’s stronger than Gt Goku) but for all we know, Super Goku was so fatigued he was probably weaker than his Z self (he couldn’t even hold ssj3) plus he still manhandled her and Kale
@@lightinstinct707 Yeah
I think Vegetto would win, because his fusion has no time limit, so he'll last long enough to beat Goku SSJ4
*Potara Retcon has entered the chat*
DAMMIT!!!
Ok but let’s say there’s no time limit to the fusion right but because of that you think vegeto could not be defeated if his opponent is stronger than him
SSJ4 Goku Hands Down
@JACQUEZ JOHNSON ok now that your trolling is done you can leave now
@JACQUEZ JOHNSON No. Lol
Goku wouldn't even need super saiyan 4. Maybe super saiyan 3/2 if Vegito uses super saiyan 3.
@@powerjolt7215 I'd say only ssj1 or 2
@@digimationentertainment9820 Yeah.
The Sumpreme Duo Covered this a while ago, Glad you gave this more attention
SSJ4 is easily stronger. Not sure how this was a debate
This video was about Goku at that time, with that transformation... NOT about just SSJ4. As just the transformation doesnt guarantee you anything. It's power can be counted from your already existing base power... For example if you or me were able to go SSJ4 right now, we would be nowhere near those powers..
@@joonashannila8751 yeah I was referring to Goku lol. Didn't mention his name so I know it didn't come off that way. But I agree
@@godsangell12 Imagine if someone angered you, and suddenly *POOF* you turned into a Super Saiyan or Great Ape :F
People could call you Super Sanchez :P
hihihi merry xmas ^^
Great video bro 👍
Based on the power scaling of the timelines of which they appear in the series, I would think SS4 would be stronger..
Gt is its own story as such is a side story.
Gt isn't cannon.
Shane Strickland But it still follows Z
@@lightinstinct707 Gt is not actually part of The Z time line I will leave you a link to a video explaining this tomorrow.
Gt and the movies are like their own dimension of the dragonball cannon.
Shane Strickland That is true but it does go through the events of Z as well. They reference multiple enemies from Z in Gt so I think of it as this was
DB->DBZ(Filler and movies included)->DBGT
DB->DBZkai->Dbs
Chuck and geekdom let's go.
Comparing different base forms is not an equal comparison here. You need to compare the same Goku using Super Saiyan 4 vs. Potara Fusion Super Vegito, where Goku has the same base in each form as well as a comparable Vegeta. The problem here is that it would be speculation who would be more powerful, unless there are concrete multipliers that can be applied with some known power level stats at base form.
Base Vegito is arguably a higher multiplier (this is even before Super)
@@JohnSmith-hk1fz how is that so?
Their has to be facts no speculations that's why I hate this tyle of videos because no disrect to the youtuber but they are not akira toryama so their opinion is not a fact and it's irrelevant and Poole shouldn't believe him just because he gets views amd he said it
Kim
Base Vegito > SSJ3 Gotenks = 400x Base Gotenks > 400x SSJ Gotenks (pre-rosat) > 400x SSJ3 Goku
Goku himself said SSJ Gotenks was stronger than him and could of obliterated Fat Buu. Despite that, the characters had no hope he could beat Super Buu and yet the narrative implied Base Gotenks (post-rosat) stood a chance. Since Vegito scales a good chunk above all of that, he's at least over 160,000x stronger than Base Goku. There's practically no evidence you can use to place SSJ4 at that level
Golden HD Death of the Author exists
SUPER good job.
These are the type of videos I long 4.
~_~
I'm sorry bro but this madness has to stop. I get ppl "hate GT" and all that but surely you guys in the community aren't comparing Z vegito to GT ssj4 goku. You're kidding right? That translation was wrong bc I read those guides several times and it was alluding to the multiplier that a fusion would give you. Not vegito at that point himself. You seriously cant think that can you? Goku has progressed so much from that point that in GT he was enough for that vegito by himself in base. I dont get why GT has to be written off by everyone if the creator didnt even write it off himself. That's like saying saiyan saga goku can beat goku in super.
DigiMation Entertainment nah
Cant compare both because gt is uncannon so it's no the same power levels
@@goldenhd9656 Spamming everyone's comments with the same bs lmao
Golden HD And there’s the bullshit cannon comment that someone pulls out their ass every time!!!smh!!!
DigiMation Entertainment I agree with everything your saying except that base gt goku beats super vegito
Just here to enjoy some great discussion from Geekdom and Chuck. 👌🏻
Base goku(beginning of series) = ssj3 goku(dbz) and then he got stronger and stronger in base so just imagine how strong he is at the end of the series, base goku(end of GT) could beat super saiyan vegito(dbz)
Yawn, Uub was stronger than goku
GETHYPE 190 end of z goten beat buu and goku kick goten and won end of z goku> kid buu>ssj3 goku z
Wtf is this lowball.Goku base form is equal to ssj vegito,ssj goku equals ssj2 vegito,ssj2 goku equals ssj3 vegito,and ssj3 goku is much stronger than ssj3 vegito.Goku in super 17 arc is so much stronger that’s it’s dumb.
We all needed this video
Goku bodies vegito
If ssj2 kefla could be stronger than first time ui goku then how did vegito be weaker than ssj4 goku
@@brotatoamvs4456 Please dont use universe 6 sayains in any power scaling arguments. Those sayains literally shit out the super Saiyan form and get become wayy to strong than they have any right to be.
@@brotatoamvs4456 base Gogeta from "Super broly" was stronger than ssg Goku then why the heck Vegito needed to go Ssj against buuhan?
@@ShashankShukla3103 He didn't need to....
@@ΗλίαςΣαραντάκος if he didnt need to then why he became a ssj😂
Atleast use ur brain dude
Also in the manga vegito directly went to ssj and didnt even fight buuhan even for a sec
Why?😂coz he was scared?
Yay for Chuck back on the channel.
Really uub is almost grown at the beginning of gt you dont think goku has gone far beyond his buu saga power?
Think of it this way, Frieza did something that shouldn't be called training for 4 months and was SSJB level, Uub (Kid buu) who by default is like a thousand times stronger than Frieza trains with Goku for 5 years, who's going to be stronger? That alone answers the whole Super GT debate, GT Goku in his base form is easily stronger than SSJ Vegito, and that's not even the strongest base GT Goku, he gets hundreds of times stronger in every arc.
@-Xephyr- 😂😂😂😂😂👏🤣Bruh, what?? Wtf are you smoking? Uub has waaaay more potential than Frieza, Uub is literally kid Buu who was not only born waaaay stronger than Frieza, but he improves and learns at a much faster rate.
Nice video bro
3 questions,
1. Can a fused character achieve ultra instinct??? (Vegito/ Gogeta/ Gotenks/ Kefla) if so would both individuals have to already to able to tap into UI or would could it just be only 1 of them that can before fusion??
2. If Vegito or gogeta ever obtain ultra instinct even if it’s only the incomplete version. Does that mean that Vegeta achieved ultra instinct or would all the UI be coming from Goku???
3. If Vegito / Gogeta achieve partial UI are still weaker then mastered UI Goku???
Yes, a fused character can achieve Ultra Instinct, as well as a transformation the fusees have never used, or tapped into before. An example being Gotenks...
Goten and Trunks have never once achieved Super Saiyan 3, but their Metamoran fusion, Gotenks, was able to, even though Goten and Trunks both never did.
Pretty easy answer if a fusion is trained enough it could reach a new form or UI but in the case of Gogeta or Vegito they would already have access to the form via Goku having it but when the fusion ends Vegeta wouldn’t have the form unless he achieved it himself
Gogeta/Vegito blue are already close in power with MUI Goku
Both are on the same league
UIO Gogeta/Vegito stomps Everyone
@@ShashankShukla3103 Actually we don't know the multiplier for UI, so by feats mui Goku is stronger than blue gogeta/vegito
@@ShashankShukla3103
Power level:
Goku (end of Z) :
Base - 60mil
SSJ1 - 3 bill
SSJ2 - 6 bill
SSJ3 - 24 bill
Vegeto - 1.8 quad
Gohan Raged SSJ2 - 6 trill
Gohan Ultimate - 60 bill
Gotenxt - 7.2 bill
Gotenxt SSJ3 - 2.88 trill
Goku BOGs arch
Base - 1.2 bill
SSJ1 - 60 bill
SSJ2 - 120 bill
SSJ3 - 480 bill
SSG - 100 oct
Beerus - 10 non
Whis - 15 non
Resurrection F
Base - 24 bill
SSJ1 - 1.2 trill
SSJ2 - 2.4 trill
SSJ3 - 9.6 trill
SSG - 2 non
SSB - 100 non
Universe 7 Vs 6
Base - 480 bill
SSJ1 - 24 trill
SSJ2 - 48 trill
SSJ3 - 192 trill
SSG - 40 non
SSB - 2 dec
Goku Black Arch
Base - 9.6 trill
SSJ1 - 480 trill
SSJ2 - 960 trill
SSJ3 - 3.840 quad
SSG - 800 non
SSB - 40 dec
SS Rose - 2 undec
Vegeto Base - 92.160 sept
Vegeto SSB - 368.64 quintdecillion
Zeno arch
Base - 192 trill
SSJ1 - 9.6 quad
SSJ2 - 19.2 quad
SSJ3 - 76.8 quad
SSG - 16 dec
SSB - 800 dec
UI Omen - 40 undec
UI Mastered - 800 undec
Broly
Base - 3.840 quad
SSJ1 - 192 quad
SSJ2 - 384 quad
SSJ3 - 1.536 quint
SSG - 320 dec
SSB - 16 undec
Gogeta Base - 460.8 quad
Gogeta Blue 1.920 undec
GT
Base - 24 bill
SSJ1 - 1.2 trill
SSJ2 - 2.4 trill
SSJ3 - 9.6 trill
SSJ4 - 96 trill
Gogeta SSJ4 - 11.520 quad
Broly LSSJ - 3 trill
Absolon
Base - 480 bill
SSJ1 - 24 trill
SSJ2 - 48 trill
SSJ3 - 192 trill
SSJ4 -1.920 quad
SSJ5 - 192 quad
My factors:
(To baseform)
Zenki boost - 2x
Ozaroo - 10x
Arch of training / KioKen - 20x
False SSJ - 25x
SSJ1 - 50x
SSJ2 - 100x
Metamarine Fusion - 1+1x60 / 120x
SSJ3 - 400 x (GT's timesip)
Mystic/Rage/Legend - 1'000x
SSJ4 - 4'000x
Metamarine SSJ3 - 48'000
LSSJ - 50'000x
Rageboost SSJ2 - 100'000x
SSJ5 - 400'000x
Potara (Vegeta x Goku) - 60 million x
GT Metamarine SSJ4 -192 million x
Potara (V x G) SSJ - 3 billion x
SSJ God - 80 quintillion x
SSJ Blue - 4 sextillion x
SSJ Blue KK20 - 80 sextillion x
(To SSJ God)
SSJ God - 1
SSJ Blue - 50
SSJ Blue KK20 - 1'000
Ultra Instinct Omen / SSJ Rose - 2'500
SSJ Blue Gogeta - 6'000
Ultra Instinct Mastered - 50'000
SSJ Blue Vegeto - 480 trillion
Love the intro Geekdom!
SSJ4 goku considering base GT goku should be around the same level as super buu. And the SSJ4 multiplier should definitely be in the thousands.
@superken54 haven't seen the video yet imma bout to go sleep lol.
Base gt goku should be above super vegito.
@@josephisrael8959 Base GT kid Goku was fighting Goten who's around Super buu level and Gohan who also is above Buuhan and yet....Goku was fighting both of them using only Base. But I do think GT Gohan and vegito are equal. But Gohan with an slight edge
@@josephisrael8959
Base Goku >>>>>>>>>>Gohan > Goten
@@calvinrump3558 agreed. Although I'm a bit rusty when it comes GT powerscaling😅
Yea gt Characters are stronger than we thought
I don't really care who is stronger but I don't think it's fair to compare SSJ Vegito that's struggle a tiny bit against Buu's Vice Shout to SSJ4 and all his feats. Seeing the power jump from the fusion alone who knows how powerful he would be max power. I say SSJ3 Vegito Full Power (that we don't know and Goku can do that form) and SSJ4 Goku to the end of the Baby fight would be fair. I know he was compared to the beginning of the series but it was assumed Uub got as strong as Kid Buu.
Ssj4 goku was getting his ass kicked 90 percent of gt. A great ape baby couldnt even blow up a planet with 2 super galick guns who was on par with a boosted ssj4 goku
@Sonic ssj4 goku was almost killed by a building
Cant compare both because gt is uncannon either way it's not the same universe cause super has no ssj4
@@goldenhd9656 How is that even relevant to the topic? Think my dude, think.
@@zeldapro18 I think he is referring to how power scaling for both shows are different because gt isn't apart of the actual story like dbz.
Glad to see you use Chuck to power scale, love the collab🤟🏼
I feel that ss4 goku takes the win.
Goku state that general rildo is above buu (didn't specify which buu but it could be kid buu) and base goku has no problem matching general rildo. Stacking ss4 on top of it makes him stronger
Old kai (or kaioshin not sure who) said that baby vegeta 2 has power that they never experience before. Therefore baby vegeta 2 definitely outclass dbz characters.
Also, ss4 goku has dragon fist which proof to be able to critically damage enemy stronger than the user
@superken54
"It was never stated that the Dragon Fist only damages enemies stronger than the user"
Are you trolling? Since dragon fist damage enemy stronger than user, it will obviously kill enemy weaker than user. Goku is already stronger than ice shenron, so ice shenron would not survive dragon fist.
By your logic, if goku full power dragon fist krillin, krillin would survive that?
Apekecik2071 Almost any charged Ki Blast attack can damage enemies stronger than the user. I.E special beam cannon against Raditz. Gokus Kamehameha he launched against Raditz was also several times more powerful than Goku was himself.
Zukari Shi actually it’s simpler. A charged ki attack and certain techniques will raise the users power level temporarily. So it’s not like a technique hurts stronger enemies, it just makes the user surpass them for a moment
vusa siw Yeah it’s not a specific technique. It’s just that Dragon Fist is a technique that raises the users power level temporarily like Kamehameha and Special Beam Cannon
superken54 he’s not saying the dragon fist only deals damage to enemies stronger than goku, read his comment again, he said that the dragon fist was shown to BE ABLE to hurt enemies stronger than goku which is true considering how ssj4 goku got omega shenron by surprise with his dragon fist and would have killed him if it wasn’t for omega shenron being able to regenerate
I just realized, since Buuhan has basically Ultimate Gohans power that means Ultimate Gohan is on Vegitos level, GT Goku in Base form held off both Goten and Gohan who never neglected training so that would make GT Base Goku alone Vegito level. SSJ4 has estimated Power Level to be anywhere from 500000x base to 1 Million x Base which means SSJ4 would undoubtedly be more powerful than Vegito. Even as SSJ3, Vegito would be weaker than SSJ4 and post-Baby saga SSJ4 would be leagues above Vegito.
It really does suck that so many people are quick to dismiss SS4 just because its from GT, and everyone loves to dump on GT because of how bad of a series it is compared to DB / DBZ, even before DBS was ever a thing. Now with DBS being a huge success, on par or even surpassing the success that DBZ was able to reach. Fans just want to act like GT never happens and that SS4 is a worthless transformation. While I agree that DBGT is nowhere near as good as the other series like DBZ, And DBS. DBGT takes place 5 years after all the events of DBZ and DBS takes place after the events of DBZ during the 5 year time gap between DBZ and GT.
The only things that should be taken from GT and put into super are as follows. Super sayin 4 ( the more transformation the better), Uub ( I don’t know how their gonna make that happen because buu is still alive in super), teenage trunks and goten, and that golden great ape both Baby with vegeta’s body and Goku Were able to achieve ( let’s bring back the great ape form in genera), bring back the sayians tails. and finally bring over the entire storyline of using the dragon balls to many times and birthing evil dragons and eventually Omega Sherron, they don’t even need to use earths dragon balls it could be the super dragon balls that crack and have evil beings come out. Everything else can stay with GT
Michael Gorilla my guy, gt is not “cannon”
Gt is and never was cannon what crack you smoking
Uhhh gt isnt cannon do you really think ss4 would come after super saiyan GOD let that sink in for a minute
Its all in the name
Super saiyan GOD super saiyan 4
Does that sound right to you?
Gt isn’t canon lmao tf
I apologize for my severe and continuous lapse in judgement.
I was wrong, GT isn’t cannon and it’s for the better given how bad it is.
The best thought out saiyan Transformation finally gets some love.
I liked the idea that Goku was less strong when he transformed to a kid
Thanks for the video! Good points.
What about Ssj3 Vegito?
thats a diff topic for another day
SSJ3 vegito is only 8x stronger than SSJ vegeto.
superken54 He did but not in depth, also commented before fully watching the video
SSJ4 Goku would still win,(Baby Saga one) but maybe with some difficulty
Ssj4 goku stomps.
Also thanks for saying it Geekdom 1:15
I think people dont realise how strong vegito was, if it is super vegito vs ssj4 then ssj4 but ssj3 vegito vs ssj4 goku ? I AM not so sure to be honest. Just think about it how strong kefla was in super and that can tell you how strong vegito was in Z, and btw i love ssj4 its a great form
People dont realise that vegito wasnt even trying against buu. His whole plan was to get absorbed to save his freind otherwise he would have oneshotted buu. Ssj3 vegito would smack a ssj4 goku. Keep in mind that great ape baby whom was on par with a boosted ssj4 goku couldnt even blow up the planet with 2 super galick guns lol
jacob black wolf Seriously? No, SSJ3 Vegito dies a horrible death
@@zachshipley1689 in that sense you're implying that a vegito from z is stronger than ssb goku. Goku training for 15 years already show that he's become much much stronger
@@Spike-Ali SSJB Goku and SSJ4 Goku aren't equal to begin with. Scaling and feats easily points to Blue Goku being far superior to 4.
@@Spike-Ali Long years of training doesn't also equal to Quality training. You can train for 20 years and only have small gains.
Great analysis, completely agree. The lesson to take away from this, GT power levels are INSANE!
I swear whoever wrote gt knew what they were doing by ending it off with goku as a kid because if he was a adult in gt...omega shenron wouldn't have lasted against ssj3 because his base power in gt is ridiculous
Exactly
Him being a kid didn’t make him weaker just lowered his stamina by a little bit
@@gamingtyphoon8989 Actually it did weaken him, because he was out of his prime + The fact he had way less stamina, thus struggling to maintain SSJ3
GamingTyphoon lowering his stamina would in turn make him weaker, he could hardly use ssj3
Black Saiyan God true I guess but I’m saying when he goes super saiyan 3 he’s still as strong as he would be normally
what most people fail to realize is that kid buu's strength wasnt just his ki level and reserves, it was his regeneration. without that, ssj3 goku would have easily wiped the floor with him.
as far as vegito goes, we never saw his full power. remember, vegito had goku in it, which means that vegito had the ability to go ssj3.
iirc, ssj4 goku hit rage shenron with a full power 10x kamehameha and had it rebounded back at him. it was enough to knock him out of ssj4 form back to base, but the actual explosion was pretty much miniscule. the androids right before trunks killed them did more damage.
To be fair, we can only really confirm that base GT Goku is at least Kid Buu level, and like was said, Vegito was holding back the entire time. Vegito was even suprised at his own power implying he does not know his upper limits. This puts into question if you can really assume babys genaric strongest claim can be applied to Vegito. It is also stated Vegitos multiplier is Gokus battle power times Vegetas, so even low balling Goku and Vegeta to Namek saga level the Potara can reasonably be argued above a 3 million times multiplier. Given the massive multiplier and the fact the guide states Vegito is comparable if not stronger than SSJ4 I think it's perfectly reasonable to say Vegito is potentially equal or superior to SSJ4 Goku.
Been looking for some feed from your channel and I couldn't remember it for some reason and got tired of the other fan made manga that I don't give a damn about. Glad a video popped up.
I want to see SSJ4 Ultra Instinct.
huh...?
This form would be calles primal instinct
Or just call it Ultra Saiyan Instinct
@@skilarbabcock this is also a cool name!
Never knew Gt characters could be this powerful
DBS fans be like:
*DBS Krillin still beats SSJ4 Goku*
I don’t think I’ve ever seen that comment.
Realistically if Gt Goku full powered was on the team he could honestly contend with Ultimate Gohan and would be a good member
@@lightinstinct707 honesty being realistic gt goku would body most people in the torment of power. He still loves a good fight don't get me wrong (a bit more mature or not he's still goku afther all) but gt goku has shown that he's matured enough to the point that when his home is in danger he puts his love for fighting to the side to finish the job.
@@lightinstinct707 now with jiren that's a different story. Afther all it would just as possible for him to unlock UI just like his super counterpart but I feel like he wouldn't do good agesnt jiren. Without alittle help from vegata or his super counterpart.
I see u geekdom, going with the algorithm with legends getting the ssj4s
i had no idea. lol. i made this video 2 weeks ago. So thats not true
@@Geekdom101 okok now u can see the future 😂😂
The only way Super Vegito could beat SSJ4 Goku is if it's GT Super Vegito.
I'm basing this off of how much more powerful Super Gogeta was than SSB Goku, and Vegeta in DBS Broly.
I know the fusions, and transformations are different, but I believe it was revealed around the time Broly came out that Vegito, and Gogeta are on the same level of power.
Base Gogeta did for a brief time better than both blues so i think its fair to assume that base fusion=ssb at least and if that Statement gogeta=vegito can be trusted, same goes for vegito
I love how your using art from dokkan battle and legends. Keep it up. Very astetically appealing.
The GT rule of thumb is, don't use logic to describe anything.
That's DB Heroes
That's super
Sir Flopsalot 1. They used logic the whole video
2. That applies more to Super
Sir Flopsalot no that’s toryama Logic in db super. He literally can care less about his ongoing stories accuracy or making sense.
Thats DB in general.
I just want to say, I think its really cool you're making videos with seth and chuck, also seth needs to get his ass moving on some content of his own
Even if Vegito went SSJ3, he'd only be 8x stronger than in SSJ. He'd be 160x stronger if he could stack KKx20, but who knows how quickly he'd defuse then. SSJ4 Goku at this point in GT may even be hundreds of thousands of times stronger than he was in Z. Not to mention his SSJ4 obviously got stronger towards the end of GT. GT stomps, no contest.
We’ll if Vegito can last five minutes in Blue, he could probably go a good 30 minutes with SSJ3 Kaioken. You’re right though Goku slams
Love that Geekdom continuously uses Dokkan artworks
Hey Geekdom! Sorry for the random question but, do you think the design of Jiren could have been inspired by the Engineer from Prometheus since they are both tall, muscular, with palid skin and black eyes? Also Toriyama's favorite movie is Alien and he paid homage to it by basing the design of 3rd form Frieza on the Xenomorph and Prometheus is part of the franchise.
Edit: another small detail is the fact that kid Jiren wears similar clothes to the ones the Engineer is wearing at the start of the movie.
But Jiren's eyes are those of a gray alien.
I think Jiren is based on Frieza, since the final form of the latter also has the same concept of "gray alien" and the ToP is very similar to his Z saga.
This is a great great video!! Goku SS4 is my favorite version of Goku. Keep up the great work Geekdom
I actually think that SSJ4 Gogeta is stronger than ssb Gogeta , think about it he’s so strong he gets no time in fusion , while blue gets lots of time .
Blue would destroy SSJ4. The time thing is something that can't be taken as gospel. First, Toriyama didn't have anything to do with GT. Second, we saw the Potara fusion get retconned later, which makes fusions across arcs not necessarily reliable. And third, Blue has the power of gods. The gods are strong enough to destroy galaxies. SSJ4 is never implied to have that level of power.
I honestly thought ssb gogeta was gonna defuse mid fight
But the thing is, ssj4 hasnt shown the same feats that even regular god form goku has, so the time thing isnt a good argument to that case.
BOI
@@tyebou3276 now that is a little highball of dbs Goku and lowball of gogeta ssj4
My guy SSGSS Goku OR Vegeta molests SSJ4 Gogeta. Super Saiyan God Goku is CASUALLY threatening the universe by just clashing fists with Beerus and SSGSS Goku And Vegeta are making the Gods SHIT themselves. Those same gods by the way can erase SSJ4 Gogeta before he can even blink.
Then you’ve got SSGSS Kaioken Goku and SSGSS Evolution Vegeta pressing Jiren who by just walking SHOOK THE INFINITE WORLD OF VOID
SSGSS Gogeta bends SSJ4 Gogeta over, rips his pants off, penetrates and beats those cheeks inside out.
And just like you said it’s even worse since SSJ4 Gogeta can’t stay fused while SSGSS Gogeta can go ALL OUT NO HOLDS BARED BALLS DEEP FOR 30 MINUTES
Love the video geekdom. Love that legends art once again 😍
Everything in GT is *stronger,* because GT happens *after!*
super and gt exist in different timelines but yeah gt is stronger than super.
@@animix8865 😂😂😂
@@animix8865 super is stronger
@@animix8865 Beerus and Jiren beg to differ
That's stupid by that logic future trunks who is 20 years from future would solo everyone in Dragonball z.its not about the time passed.that's irrelevant.
Great topic choice. I always wanted to hear some insight from other DB minds regarding that statement from the Perfect Files. I always figured that they were referring to a hypothetical SSJ2 or 3 Vegito from Z.
SSJ4 Goku >= Golden Great Ape Baby Vegeta > Super Baby Vegeta 2 > Super Baby Vegeta 1 > SSJ Vegetto > SSJ Baby Vegeta
@JACQUEZ JOHNSON no
Super Vegetto >>>>>>>>>> SSJ4 Goku
TheCristian11148 I don’t think so gokus base form is stronger than ssj3 goku when he fought buu then super Saiyan 50 times stronger than that ssj2 is stronger than that and ssj3 is 4 times more powerful than that vegetto is probably ssj2 gt goku level then ssj3 vegetto would probably be a little stronger than ssj3 gt goku but ssj4 is stronger
@@Cristian11148 Seguro tú eres de los tipos que piensan que Buu Gohan es más fuerte que Omega Shenron. ._.
@@modernyin6275 Well there is the comparison to Rildo being similar to Buu. And why couldn't GT Goku be stronger than Kid Buu as far as GT is concerned he trolled the likes of Frieza and Cell who where known to be Ssj1 and Ssj2 Tier in his base yet fighting someone that is Ssj3 Tier in his base is consistent in as far as what GT itself has showcased and mentioned.
I've been wondering this for years... Finally!!!!!
Dude. Offical statements matter more than powerscaling. Powerscaling isnt a thing. Theres not meant to be mathematical consistency. Theres no hard numbers at all. None of the writers are doing what you're implying. It's literally all in your own head cannon.
Power scaling actually makes a lot of sense and in fact in DBZ people would power scale like super sayian 2 or even 3 which would later be close or the correct to what the show would later confirm
@@jacobpicasso4016 show never confirmed any of that.
What have you done Geek!
Bro is this a joke? base gt kid goku is confirmed stronger than z ssj3 goku. So kid base gt goku is possibly stronger than z super vegito. ssj4 gt goku claps z super vegito so hard its not even funny
V i d e o s #2 that is a stretch because kid Goku in gt was limited to his full power and he had trouble going ssj3 because it was such a power draining form and even more so with him being a kid... yeah 15 years past so you would expect goku to be stronger than ssj3 during the Buu saga however him being stronger than super vegito is a stretch
V i d e o s #2 Base Vegito = SSJ3 Goku. SS4 still wins but that argument in particular was bad.
@@jacobhafar538 rip my english lol
@@jacobhafar538 and also i think baby saga ssj4 goku=ssj vegito
@@jacobhafar538 base vegito eqaul buutenks or little stronger than buuhan
What up geekdom
I'm glad that fusion exists in both continues because it can bridge the gap in our understanding of the relative powers of the characters in GT and Super. Also isn't Super Saiyan Fusion implied to be slightly greater than a Super Saiyan Blue as well?
Yes, in fact, base fusion is stronger than two Super Saiyan Blues according to DBS: Broly. I know Heroes is well heroes, but they even implied that Blue Fusion & 4 Fusion is stronger than Ultra Instinct, but you can take that with a grain of salt if you wish.
@@JustSomeMexicanwithaMustache uh it was shown ultra instinct was stronger
_Heroes showed that SSj4 Xeno Vegito > UI CCL Goku > SSjB CCL Vegito_
I know I'm gonna get a lot of heat, but personally for me I say SSB Gogeta is stronger than UI Goku. Because fusion power level is different all together. Just look at Z, how both SS Gogeta and SS Vegito is way more powerful than even SS3 Goku and Ultimate Gohan. In DBS, we see how SS Gogeta is much more powerful than even two SSB user, a post TOP arc SSB user. SSB Gogeta is definitely on a whole new level because we know how far gap between SS to SSB.
@@shawziiz5031 I know how you feel man and I get what you're saying! Sometimes I want some of my favorite characters to be stronger (like Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta, Uub, Kale and Caulifla, and Jiren). The great thing that I think Super has taught me and hopefully everybody else too is that these characters are only gonna get stronger!
0:25 that just confirmed for me that u made this video because of ssj4 banners dropping in legends but does that mean u play dbl ?
None of them can’t stand up to Rey
Let me put it in a different perspective, if Goku turned SSJ4 in the Buu arc, would he be stronger than Vegito if Goku and Vegeta fused in the same arc?
Ssj4 is way stronger
even if vegito went super saiyan 2, ssj4 goku would be stronger
Power level:
Goku (end of Z) :
Base - 60mil
SSJ1 - 3 bill
SSJ2 - 6 bill
SSJ3 - 24 bill
Vegeto - 1.8 quad
Gohan Raged SSJ2 - 6 trill
Gohan Ultimate - 60 bill
Gotenxt - 7.2 bill
Gotenxt SSJ3 - 2.88 trill
Goku BOGs arch
Base - 1.2 bill
SSJ1 - 60 bill
SSJ2 - 120 bill
SSJ3 - 480 bill
SSG - 100 oct
Beerus - 10 non
Whis - 15 non
Resurrection F
Base - 24 bill
SSJ1 - 1.2 trill
SSJ2 - 2.4 trill
SSJ3 - 9.6 trill
SSG - 2 non
SSB - 100 non
Universe 7 Vs 6
Base - 480 bill
SSJ1 - 24 trill
SSJ2 - 48 trill
SSJ3 - 192 trill
SSG - 40 non
SSB - 2 dec
Goku Black Arch
Base - 9.6 trill
SSJ1 - 480 trill
SSJ2 - 960 trill
SSJ3 - 3.840 quad
SSG - 800 non
SSB - 40 dec
SS Rose - 2 undec
Vegeto Base - 92.160 sept
Vegeto SSB - 368.64 quintdecillion
Zeno arch
Base - 192 trill
SSJ1 - 9.6 quad
SSJ2 - 19.2 quad
SSJ3 - 76.8 quad
SSG - 16 dec
SSB - 800 dec
UI Omen - 40 undec
UI Mastered - 800 undec
Broly
Base - 3.840 quad
SSJ1 - 192 quad
SSJ2 - 384 quad
SSJ3 - 1.536 quint
SSG - 320 dec
SSB - 16 undec
Gogeta Base - 460.8 quad
Gogeta Blue 1.920 undec
GT
Base - 24 bill
SSJ1 - 1.2 trill
SSJ2 - 2.4 trill
SSJ3 - 9.6 trill
SSJ4 - 96 trill
Gogeta SSJ4 - 11.520 quad
Broly LSSJ - 3 trill
Absolon
Base - 480 bill
SSJ1 - 24 trill
SSJ2 - 48 trill
SSJ3 - 192 trill
SSJ4 -1.920 quad
SSJ5 - 192 quad
My factors:
(To baseform)
Zenki boost - 2x
Ozaroo - 10x
Arch of training / KioKen - 20x
False SSJ - 25x
SSJ1 - 50x
SSJ2 - 100x
Metamarine Fusion - 1+1x60 / 120x
SSJ3 - 400 x (GT's timesip)
Mystic/Rage/Legend - 1'000x
SSJ4 - 4'000x
Metamarine SSJ3 - 48'000
LSSJ - 50'000x
Rageboost SSJ2 - 100'000x
SSJ5 - 400'000x
Potara (Vegeta x Goku) - 60 million x
GT Metamarine SSJ4 -192 million x
Potara (V x G) SSJ - 3 billion x
SSJ God - 80 quintillion x
SSJ Blue - 4 sextillion x
SSJ Blue KK20 - 80 sextillion x
(To SSJ God)
SSJ God - 1
SSJ Blue - 50
SSJ Blue KK20 - 1'000
Ultra Instinct Omen / SSJ Rose - 2'500
SSJ Blue Gogeta - 6'000
Ultra Instinct Mastered - 50'000
SSJ Blue Vegeto - 480 trillion
@@11oldgaming46 yes and he'd be stronger than ssj3...and blue XD
SpirothMoonlight I like you
I think the statement is clearly saying that Vegito is stronger than a hypothetical SSJ4 Buu saga goku. SSJ4 Goku from the baby arc and beyond is definitely stronger than Vegito IMO.
Gt>super
GT>super
DBS Goku in base>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all characters in dbgt.
Then imagine just how powerful an Ssj4 Vegito would be
Goku's power isnt multiplied Ten times with dragon fist, in ssj4 super attacks have 10x multipliers its attacks, like 10x kamehameha.
Hells Angel ...NO.
uh yes?
Yu should make videos like this more often
I'd like to see buuhan vs rildo
Could buuhans regen get him an edge over rildo?
What about Meta Rildo? I'm referring to when he combines with M-2. Depending on how the scenario is played, I could imagine that to be posing a problem for Buuhan.
@@diarawisteria2218 I see u on that 1
Although idk how he would get the sigma force to show up to the fight with him.
Even then it's kinda dangerous cuz buu might just end up absorbing THEM too.
Makes me wonder how machinery works with him.
But this would definitely be interesting.
Only problem is I don't remember rildo using many very many large scale ki blasts, so maybe he isn't very proficient with ki, which puts him at a huge disadvantage against a character that needs to be disentigrated
Start of GT Base Goku > End of Z Base Goku ~ Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku ~ Kid Buu > Buuhan
Buu Saga Vegito/Super Vegito is somewhere in the ranges of Kid Buu and SSJ3 Goku. The Anime Comics Guide says that Vegito perhaps is stronger than SSJ4 as a form keyword "Perhaps" implying that Vegito and SSJ4 as forms are relative and since it says Vegito is stronger and not the other way around that means Buu Saga Potara (For Goku & Vegeta) >= SSJ4 Multiplier.
ssj4 goku of course
I enjoyed the vid could you do a vid about how super should have picked up after goku left with uub and how each arc could have work also with z character getting screen time
Huge fan of Vegito but this is a huge stretch. Goku takes this one.
Power level:
Goku (end of Z) :
Base - 60mil
SSJ1 - 3 bill
SSJ2 - 6 bill
SSJ3 - 24 bill
Vegeto - 1.8 quad
Gohan Raged SSJ2 - 6 trill
Gohan Ultimate - 60 bill
Gotenxt - 7.2 bill
Gotenxt SSJ3 - 2.88 trill
Goku BOGs arch
Base - 1.2 bill
SSJ1 - 60 bill
SSJ2 - 120 bill
SSJ3 - 480 bill
SSG - 100 oct
Beerus - 10 non
Whis - 15 non
Resurrection F
Base - 24 bill
SSJ1 - 1.2 trill
SSJ2 - 2.4 trill
SSJ3 - 9.6 trill
SSG - 2 non
SSB - 100 non
Universe 7 Vs 6
Base - 480 bill
SSJ1 - 24 trill
SSJ2 - 48 trill
SSJ3 - 192 trill
SSG - 40 non
SSB - 2 dec
Goku Black Arch
Base - 9.6 trill
SSJ1 - 480 trill
SSJ2 - 960 trill
SSJ3 - 3.840 quad
SSG - 800 non
SSB - 40 dec
SS Rose - 2 undec
Vegeto Base - 92.160 sept
Vegeto SSB - 368.64 quintdecillion
Zeno arch
Base - 192 trill
SSJ1 - 9.6 quad
SSJ2 - 19.2 quad
SSJ3 - 76.8 quad
SSG - 16 dec
SSB - 800 dec
UI Omen - 40 undec
UI Mastered - 800 undec
Broly
Base - 3.840 quad
SSJ1 - 192 quad
SSJ2 - 384 quad
SSJ3 - 1.536 quint
SSG - 320 dec
SSB - 16 undec
Gogeta Base - 460.8 quad
Gogeta Blue 1.920 undec
GT
Base - 24 bill
SSJ1 - 1.2 trill
SSJ2 - 2.4 trill
SSJ3 - 9.6 trill
SSJ4 - 96 trill
Gogeta SSJ4 - 11.520 quad
Broly LSSJ - 3 trill
Absolon
Base - 480 bill
SSJ1 - 24 trill
SSJ2 - 48 trill
SSJ3 - 192 trill
SSJ4 -1.920 quad
SSJ5 - 192 quad
My factors:
(To baseform)
Zenki boost - 2x
Ozaroo - 10x
Arch of training / KioKen - 20x
False SSJ - 25x
SSJ1 - 50x
SSJ2 - 100x
Metamarine Fusion - 1+1x60 / 120x
SSJ3 - 400 x (GT's timesip)
Mystic/Rage/Legend - 1'000x
SSJ4 - 4'000x
Metamarine SSJ3 - 48'000
LSSJ - 50'000x
Rageboost SSJ2 - 100'000x
SSJ5 - 400'000x
Potara (Vegeta x Goku) - 60 million x
GT Metamarine SSJ4 -192 million x
Potara (V x G) SSJ - 3 billion x
SSJ God - 80 quintillion x
SSJ Blue - 4 sextillion x
SSJ Blue KK20 - 80 sextillion x
(To SSJ God)
SSJ God - 1
SSJ Blue - 50
SSJ Blue KK20 - 1'000
Ultra Instinct Omen / SSJ Rose - 2'500
SSJ Blue Gogeta - 6'000
Ultra Instinct Mastered - 50'000
SSJ Blue Vegeto - 480 trillion
@@robinhyperlord9053 yea no this is all nothing, the powerlevels were never shown since goku became ssj
@@lauryz2082
They are still canon. They are not deleted and no longer occurred.
@@robinhyperlord9053 wtf thats dumb
@@robinhyperlord9053 yeah but these arent official
@Geekdom, question is... how does Baby Saga SSJ4 Goku, compare to SSJ3 Vegetto from DBZ Buu saga?
So if Ssj4 Goku is on par with Vegito than does that mean Ssj 4 Vegeta is stronger than Gogeta?
Madaragun Yes! It's pretty evident that SSJ 4 Vegeta would be stronger than Gogeta if Gogeta is equal or weaker than Vegito.
Mandaragun well that depends are we talking fusion reborn gogeta or are we talking a dbz what if gogeta. I'm pretty sure that ssj4 vegeta was =< ssj4 goku in gt so if dbz what if gogeta or fusion reborn gogeta is =< ssj vegito then the answer is yes.
If you mean fusion reborn Gogeta that lit up the universe then yes
Yes, ssj4 vegito from the shadow dragon arc should be stronger than baby saga ssj4 vegito.
@@YoYo-qf4ud The hell you saying? There is no such thing as SS4 Vegito in both Shadow Dragon and Baby arc. There is no SS4 Vegito in GT at all. Even if you just typo, you want to say Vegeta, still SS4 Vegeta is not exist in Baby arc.
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