The tests at the end is actually a good example for why Rogues would want the leather armor, for that bludgeoning protection. Most city night guards carried staves and clubs instead of swords, and being able to have the bludgeoning protection would be really handy at turning a potential broken bone into a bruise. Still, it’s easier to dodge and run than to tank a hit
Hello! There is one metho you didn't test, which Tod's Workshop tested succesfully: Cooking (not boiling!) the leather in boneglue. Or the modern alternative: a Water-Gelatine mixture. This way the leather turns into a compund material, the fibrous leather, filled with hardened boneglue. In his test, Tod managed to chop into a wooden beam with that piece of leather
One of the best things I’ve seen from another channel called Dark Horse Workshop, the thing Magnus uses is a high temperature mixture of beeswax and paraffin wax inside of a turkey crock pot, I have yet to find a used turkey crock pot at a goodwill or thrift store around me but I’m still on the hunt for that. But given that it’s in a large pot you’re able to get coverage a lot easier. I’ve learned a lot from this channel and that channel combined into a beautiful fusion dance of TH-cam leatherworking
Look for local auctions and liquidation companies... especially the ones who focus on store returns like Walmart, Home Depot, Amazon, etc. They get all sorts of things people buy and return including turkey crock pots and stock pots. I got a nearly five gallon stock pot for $5 once that I use for oversized projects like this.
Boiling in water dries the leather out. Boiling it in oil allows it to retain more of the natural moisture, allowing for a little more flexibility. Also it doesnt take long to boil it. You can avoid it shrinking by doing it for a shorter time. The fibers shrink under a lot of heat
Does the leather shrink because it was stretched after it was removed and the heat relaxes it so it goes back to it's original dimensions? I am about to learn leather craft and don't know.
Gambesons are such an impressive piece of armor kit. The way that layers of fabric scraps work to frustrate blades whether piercing or stabbing and distribute the forces of blows? really just sells why it was one of the most universal parts of a kit and the base layer for every upgrade.
It was also the only thing truly available to peasants, as cloth manufacturing was done in homes. Still a gambeson would take around 1000 hours of work to take the harvested flax and turn it into a functioning gambeson. :O
Working with arms and armour in a museum I’ve seen leather shields with little to no structural reinforcement, but they’re damn near half an inch thick, as for worn armour what little evidence there is from the medieval period appears to be a surface to rivet metal bands and/or plates to in order to stretch out one’s supply of metal
Because we have been watching you, Brian... we know your EVERY THOUGHT. Ok, so, the odds of you being named Brian is super slim, but how freaked out were you if it was?🤣🤣🤣
Stearic acid in a 3:1 ratio ratio with glycerin is simple bar soap! When the stearic acid is combined with the glycerin into a single molecule you have lard (or other heavy fat), adding lye to the lard separates them into their individual units making soap! You don't need to worry about getting it on your hands...its just soap (well, 3/4 of soap)...and you can for sure re-use it! Stearic acid, palmitic acid, and other related fatty acids are also often mixed with glycerin and liquid oils to make a base for skin creams and other cosmetics. These same fatty acids combined with long-chain alcohols instead of the glycerin makes them into waxes, palmitic acid in particular is common in bees' wax. This is why there is so much overlap in the physical properties of these substances! Bonus fun fact--soap can be used like a wax to finish furniture. It rubs off and has to be repeated from time to time, but it works. Second bonus fun fact--when reading labels, you often see the acid name changed to include the (__ate) suffix which means it lost one hydrogen atom and took on a negative charge in the process, so free stearic or palmatic acid has it, but when these loose the acidic hydrogen they will be called stearate or palmitate. Sometimes they will also deliberately remove the hydrogen to neutralize it and add a different counter ion, which would then read sodium stearate or sodium palmitate , assuming sodium hydroxide was the neutralizing agent (if you use sodium hydroxide lye to make soap, you have done some of this!) Its all basically the same stuff, the name is just telling you what it is up to in the material being discussed!
The channel "Tod's workshop" has an incredible video about boiling leather in hide glue called "making leather shield armor", look it up my guy, turns the leather into an entirely different material, it's amazing! seriously consider it in your next steps of leveling up! There's considerably more difficulty in this method but I believe in your ability to figure it out, be safe! ❤
Level up ideas - hardened leather belt pouch or some form of post-hardened stitched item. With larger pieces where you only need modest tempering, baked seemed like an easier option. On armor, to me it is like car crumple zones. It's there to disperse the impact energy and let you live to impart the final blow to your opponent (or bravely run away).
Started watching your videos about DIY armor, transitioned into watching a few more youtubers about leather working, now I'm hooked on making things with leather... Started with your vidoes, SOOOO thank you very much for being a Gate Way influencer for me!
New video idea: Quest food based on real historical rations. Hard Tack, Portable Soup and Pemican (you can find them all on Townsend's). Then when you have all of them made, you can finally build that hand cart that doubles as a camp cot and take all of your Wanderer items on a real (but in character) camping trip! You could even forage as one of your skills to add freshness to the rations!
many moons ago some SCA friends were making waxed leather bracers by soaking flat leather pieces in melted wax, wrapping their arms in wet newspaper then wrapping the wax soaked leather around the arm. Unfortunately, one of the guys got a bit out of order and slapped the wax soaked leather on the other guy's bare arm. Cue the screaming. Fortunately, it was winter and they were working in a garage with quick access outdoors to the nearest snowbank which cooled the leather nicely. Interesting fact about waxed leather - when you cool it down quickly the wax hardens, as you would expect, and forms tightly around every hair on your arm. Thus, removing the piece of leather was just like doing a wax hair removal treatment, an adventure that he would like very much to never, ever repeat due to the extreme pain of having every hair on his forearm torn out by the roots.
I actuely made like a whole leather vest which I hardend. I bassicly chucked it into a bucket with a bunch of glue and fabric paint, then boiled a pot of water and threw the water into the bucket where I left it for like a whole day. The glue and paint are of the type that get's absorbed into water which causes the paint and glue to soack into the leather. When I took it out it turned the whole vest into something that could be worn by a kid. Relising that I cut the thing into 2 plates and sandwiched it between 2 planks to start drying. It took a whole week for it to dry, but came out so goddamn hard it litterly took a drill to get true it. That's not even a joke I had to put holes true it, so I could attech it to something and it was like drilling true a block of wood. I then bought a other piece of leather that I turned into a vest and I atteched the plates to it with leather cord. I know my plates are significantly harder then the stuff you made, but maby atteching the leather to something made out of wool would be a good idea, based on your tests.
To touch on your stab test......not even modern day stab resistant body armor is stab proof, all it does is severely reduce the depth of the stab and/or cut wound just as the leather did. Most ballistic rated soft body armors are the same with only a few brands of ballistic rated soft armor actually stopping blades completely. Ballistic rated hard body armor can stop blades in their tracks though. The fact that the blades barley penetrated an inch is a good result.
so tod's workshop did a great video on this using a real medieval recipe, basically what you want to do to harden leather is use something like the wax that embeds itself and saturates the fibers making a polymer (don't know if that's the right word) like with ballistic weave or fiberglass where you take the strands and soak them in a resin or plastic or whatever and it makes it super strong, basically you're filling in the dead space and creating a more cohesive structure also similar to impregnating wood with oil to increase its durability
Something that might be interesting to try is using a stabilizing resin! The process is used mostly on wood. Basically you put it in a vacuum chamber submerged in resin and the the vacuum pulls the air out and the resin replaces the air inside the piece. You then have to bake the resin piece to harden it.
One thing I learned is you can acheive different levels of hardness by using different water temps. On larger pieces form them first and let dry then use a sponge to apply your hot water (use tongs if using anything really hot) and wet your piece evenly and let it dry over a form if you have one. To get more protection from piercing or slashing damage use a laminated approach. Maky your armor in a couple of layers, forming the outer layer over top of the inner one so it fits properly and before glueing them together put a layer of silk between them. Silk is extremely strong and was used in laminated armor as extra protection against sword strikes. I learned this from Alex over at Black Raven Academy.
When you did the boiled leather armor(cuir bouillon), you left it in there like 2-3 seconds too long. That's why it shrunk so much. It doesn't take much when it's properly soaked through with water beforehand. Take it out next time right as it begins to lose its form and make sure you have your mold/clamps right there when you take it out. It won't be as stretchy, but it'll still have some of that elasticity so you can work it for a few minutes. add a little extra to any patterns you make to account for shrinkage. You can always hit the boiling water again if it's not quite as hard as you'd like, too. I wanna note one problem people might see with the wax process. Running around in the heat will re-soften the piece and if you haven't properly buffed it then you might get some wax dripping on you. It might also lose some of its form over time. For pt2 of this: Glue hardening- Make a diluted solution water/carpenter's glue which is similar to the traditionally used hide glue. Bake, then soak from dry in this solution until it stops bubbling. Resin- Get ahold of some fiberglass epoxy. Shape, bake, then soak until it stops bubbling. This has the best results from my understanding, but I have only done the glue method Both of these should give you a similar result to the acid dipped example in the vid
if you want to take this up a notch put your piece into a vacuum chamber while soaking in your solution. This will really get your hardening mix into the leather and make the process go a bit faster. You can make your own chamber with a shop vac, some plywood and plexiglass (which you don't really need unless you just wanna watch the process.) Plus, after you've made this you're sure to find other reasons to use it. FYI: coolers make good containers to soak stuff in and are fairly cheap
@@daves8137 it needs to be fairly thin, like milky. iirc you can buy the glue in fairly large quantities. Like a gallon or half gallon. I mixed one of these with enough water to nearly fill an igloo lunch/hinge type cooler. I was doing forearm pieces. Came out....ig I'd call it wood like. Yes, warmer water would be better, but not nearly boiling. Comfortable bath warm.
I have used the baking method for several holsters. I have found that it works better to dye after the hardending. A couple projects had to be redone because the color had darkened substantially during the process.
Thanks for Sharing, I found it interesting and hope that I could make my own Traditional Razor holder etc. Is there a way to Water proof it for use as a Shaving Soap mixing bowl? Hmm
if you flip the leather around, so ruff side out, it causes the fibers to get stuck together. This is why millitary boots need to be polished otherwise they become fuzzy. Worth a shot at any rate. love the vieo.
I have done the bakeing part. Yes it will harden it like a rock but it dose shrink a little. So i would Suggest to make it a little bigger to get so when it shrinks to close to size. When baking do it on the lowest setting and few minutes you can mold it to you arm or leg or what ever you need it for
For protective armor you definitely want to go the laminate armor route. There are good documentations on the creation of Chinese paper armor and there is a video about the linothorax a Greek laminate linen armor. To waterproof these you put a thick layer of laquor on the outer layer.
Caveat to everything I am about to say: I am very much an amateur hobbyist when it comes to knowledge of this kind of thing. Not an expert, just the sort of person who likes to know broad info about a lot of subjects. You will hear some people say online that leather armor was never a thing, historically speaking, specifically because it did very little against blades, couldn’t be reliably repaired, and leather wasn’t plentiful enough to be worth making armor from. This is a deeply Eurocentric view of leather armor. It is true that making European style plate armor out of leather is largely impractical. But Eastern-style lamellar armor was made using leather all the time. Lamellar, for those not familiar, is where you have an array of small and overlapping plates of a protective material affixed to what more or less amounts to a jacket. This is an oversimplification, but for the purposes of this comment, it’s sufficient. Lamellar plates were made from lots of different materials, but they were a fairly effective source of protection even when made from leather. Lamellar could be patched in a way plate leather couldn’t, because all you had to do was remove the damaged plates and replace them, and because the plates were small, you didn’t need big sheets of uncut leather to make them from, you could use what would normally be considered scrap. Plus the overlapping meant more protection than a single leather layer.
I would add that Leather was a product available to most people that had animals, and the reason it didn't seem that important to the West is that maybe it bio-degraded or it was a Low class status, that just my guess
You should check Tod's Workshop video on hardened leather. I think it is a great resource and can help improving the piercing and slashing resistence that your project is lacking of. Love the channel, great work 😊😊😊
22:55 this is what we call foreshadowing 23:06 🤣 oh, the hubris 🤣 I’m *cackling* Oh, Clever, 😂 I’m so glad that you know that you Did A Stupid, but that was also the most funny thing I’ve seen out of this channel!! 🤣 top tier slapstick comedy!
Stearic acid or stearin is a vegetable based wax with a higher melting point than paraffin wax. It's used as an additive to paraffin wax to help mould release by increasing shrinkage slightly, and also aids burning time. Also it makes paraffin wax far more white than it's usual grey colour. And it's only very slightly acidic. Betchya it'd get the leather far harder at a higher temperature. I think the melting point of stearin is over 80⁰C (you'll have to look up the American 😁) it's flashpoint about 190⁰C. Use that sugar thermometer and take it up to 130⁰-140⁰C. At around this level, like paraffin wax, it's viscosity changes and penetrates better with more heat. I used to make sand candles like this, pouring hot wax into preformed damp sand.
I've got decent results from using a cheap wide paddle hair straightener for stiffening leather and pressing edges, set to moderately hot it only takes a few seconds for each spot, just have be careful not to burn your piece.
I did my sca armour with 2 methods. For my elbows I used wet leather cut in a v and stretched it while sewing the v together. When it dried, it tightened up and the shape gave it structure. For the lames above and below, because they were flat was just soaking the back in shellac until it wouldn't absorb any more. Cheating? Yup. But I tooled wanna dyed before, the skin side was still beautiful, and it was rock hard. Worked great (though it did after years of heavy use soften up quite a bit.. Still didn't hurt to get whacked there.)
Nowadays I mostly harden leather in the oven because I do masks and they can retain their shapes very well provided the leather is more than 5 oz. First time I hardened leather, I did it in hot (not boiling!) water with collagen in it. I don't remember where I read that, but apparently air is pushed out, the warm water helps the pores open and the collagen replaces the air in the structure. I made a bracer out of 14 oz. leather and it's still rock solid today!
I think this was more useful for a portmanteau or pickelhaube. Interestingly one Arab writer said that it worked better if it was coated with a crushed mineral facing mixed with glue. I think that is close to using asphaltum, turpentine and boiled linseed oil which was called japanning on tools in the early 20th century but was around long before that.
It's really incredible how different leather can be based on what processes are done to it/temperatures used/etc. As you mentioned there is a reason why a good defense uses multiple layers (like having gambeson underneath). There's different uses (every day wear vs going to war) and compromises (like expense and weight) in defense as well. Leather armour alone is not the best thing to be going into battle with (if memory serves historically leather armour as a primary defense was in use for less than century around the 12th century or so), but not only does it have a good aesthetic to the modern eye I think it's compromises make it perfectly reasonable wear for an adventurer.
According to Russ Mitchell over at Winged Sabre Historical Martial Arts, leather armor in Hungary, Poland and other Slavic countries was made by half tanned leather. They used thick leather band tanned it so only the outside was leather, the interior was still rawhide and super tough. You could decorate and paint and oil the outside.
Yep, absolutely half-tanned. Todd's workshop had a great set of videos from last summer on using gelatin both with and without trying the pulverized glass and iron filings in the layers. I can't remember if Todd managed to use half tanned, though I know he mentioned it.
Best description, in a book, for how they did boiled leather was for quick/cheap armor additions. The person who would be wearing it would wear something heavy, and the entire leather pieces would be boiled and then forced into shape on the person who would need to wear it. Then the leatherworker would do some quick cuts to remove it after it cools/hardens to be made into the armor pieces. That was in the Asimov/Wu Robots in Time series with the last book which was set in either dark ages or medieval england.
OLD Leather Smith here, interesting, I found how 2 harden leather by mistake. U soak it in water with about 3 drops of liquid dish soap & let dry, do it 3 or more times depending on how hard you want it 2 B. I have a piece on my shop door 2 show clients when I am in residence or not. One client asked how I did it & I told her it took a while I dipped it 7 times outside each time 2 dry, works like a charm. GOD'S BLESSINGS ✝️🥎🙃
Great video! Perfect timing because I was just thinking about armor. One other thing I'd like to know is how pliable are the different forms for working? Like if I hardened some leather into the shape of a bracer, could I still insert some rivets? Does sewing afterwards become impossible for some of them?
Fun fact: despite the name cuir bouilli *the boiled leather* it was never boiled in water. It was dipped in hot wax or oil to give it that hardiness and resistance. And if it was thick enough, it would be as hard as metal but with less than half the weight of metal Editing as the video go. For the oven the normal treatment is 200 degrees fahrenheit for 20 minutes to 70 minute beyond that and it does burn and shrink. One more edit: I didn't see you use a product Fiebings made. It's called leather firmer. People using it are saying it makes the leather just as hard as baking the leather but you just have to brush it on and let it dry. Although dipping it like when you dye leather works way better. Last edit: you're mostly right about leather not being completely protective. If you want real leather armor you need high ounces, you got 9-10oz for costumes, like 11-12oz is used for larp foam contact. Around 15 oz is for SCA for Hema contact which still isn't completely real combat but close. You gotta really harden 15 oz leather if you wanna stop slashes. And even then, Leather is really to slow the attack down so the under armor can stop it. Like leather on top of chainmail, leather slows it down and the chainmail stops the cutting, after that you won't really feel anything.
Leather on top of (chain)mail isn't really useful. Mail stops cuts and most stabs anyways. The only thing mail is pretty much useless against is bludgeoning, so wearing it under mail could help there. Ok, it would also help over it, but it would be cut to shreds, so wearing it under protects both, the leather and the user
@@Glimmlampe1982 but what you are describing is using the leather for is aesthetics, putting leather on top is meant to soften the blow and act as a layer of armor. Yes chainmail will stop slashes and some piercing but not a lot of it. A thin point on a blade will tear through chainmail. And blunt force against chainmail will hurt just as bad. Like Skall demonstrated, a chainmail coif with a padded gambeson underneath still destroyed the ballistics head when slashed by a sword due to kinetic force. Leather slows and softens the initial blow, then the chainmail stops any lethal damage, then the cloth underneath would cushion. If done right you wouldn't feel a thing. It's how the Vikings did their armor. I would also like to point out that leather used to not be a luxury item, if you wanted some you could get some from your livestock or just go hunting for it, you didn't have to pay expensive prices for it, iron and steel were way more valuable
@@dustinthesmoke7757 how is wearing the leather under mail for aesthetics? You couldn't even see it then. For reducing blunt damage there's no real difference between leather over or under mail as the mail, as you said, won't do much anyways. And the leather would also protect you from mail rings being pressed into your skin if it's under the mail as a bonus. About the Vikings, we don't really no much about Vikings use of armor. I know from like two helmets attributed to vikings and nothing else. There might some descriptions in the sagas I don't remember (haven't read to many of them too) but chances are they used mail, if they had any in the first place, they used it like they did later in high medieval times. Which means, close fitted and with nothing under it. The use of padding came way later and only briefly before plate became a thing. The whole gambeson under mail is more a modern thing, because we today want to beat us up and return to work on Monday. Back in the day armor was used for saving your life, not to protect you from injury or even pain, it's just there to keep you alive. Also pop culture Vikings are very idealized. Especially early vikings weren't the warrior dudes we see in movies. Those were the poor second or third born without much hope and basically no wealth. It changed to the end of the Viking age, but then it wasn't really Viking raiders any more but more typical armies with typical soldiers Leather wasn't as common too as you describe it. Livestock is pricey, even more than today. Also you can't use any leather, im pretty sure pig skin is pretty useless (don't remember why exactly), goat, sheep and deer skin is way to thin for anything protective. You got to use some kind of cattle, buffalo or bison, which isn't readily available. If I think about it, armor grade leather is probably way more affordable today than back then.
As far as I know there is no historical source for what exactly boiled (or blackened) leather was composed of. Tod's workshop did some videos on the topic awhile ago and mentioned that while the sources mention leather armor they neglected to include how it's made.
@@Glimmlampe1982 not sure where you are getting your information from but I'll give you what I know from history books, documentaries, from my world history college professors, and from TH-camrs that study this stuff as well. Gambeson are not a newer invention, we've traced gambeson back as far as the tenth century, they did wear them all throughout medieval periods, they were worn under mail and under plate armor in later centuries. Some gambeson were armor themselves. With chainmail you absolutely cannot wear it by itself, if you don't believe you can look up videos here on TH-cam, chainmail does zero to stop blunt force and piercing damage. As I mentioned skallagrim, shad, and others have found wearing just chainmail will actually make the blunt force worse than not wearing the chainmail at all. Even having a gambeson underneath doesn't completely stop blunt force from fracturing or breaking bones. But if you put leather or plate armor on top of chainmail on top of gambeson it helps mitigate the damage a lot more. With leather you have to find suppliers and pay high prices, learned that when I started leather crafting. Back then you didn't have laws stopping you from just going out in the wilderness and killing a few deer or other animals just to get the hides and using them for what you needed. You could also buy it for a lot cheaper than you could now, like I said leather wasn't nearly as valuable as it is today metal was worth way more, leather was just another random everyday object. Leather also does help with blunt damage unlike what you said. It's better at absorbing and spreading it out instead of keeping it concentrating on one spot. If you hit the leather it absorbs the front of it, the rest is pushed into the chainmail then the gambeson cushions it so you feel as little as possible. Yes armor is meant to be protective throughout history we've worked on armor countless times throughout history so that you keep from getting hurt and can stay in the fight.
In 3rd/3.5 edition D&D, I houseruled armor to give damage resistance instead of making you harder to hit. (I also decreased the damage die of EVERYTHING except falling damage, which I increased to at least give gravity a chance). Leather armor gave 10 DR against bludgeoning weapons and 5 DR against slashing weapons, but nothing against piercing weapons. Glad to see my houserules are at least somewhat close to reality.
From what I've been sble to find out, actual medieval leather armor wad made in layers; Leather with Silk and Suede bonded to it. The silk and suede help with slashing and some stabbing protection. Hope that helps
Layers of linen glued togeather is supposed to be able to stop a ballista bolt. I haven't personally tested it, but worn under the leather it should work for piercing damage.
Quite often armor with made up of segmented plates that would overlap, so think about your potato scaled on top of another potato is scaled on top of another potato between the added thickness and the mobility of those plates helps absorb some of that shock and transfer energy before it can get through. Also historic battle-ready swords were rarely razor sharp so you're back to bludgeoning damage anyway
may i suggest lamellar? use your favored style of hardening leather after making a bunch of little plates and the overlapping hardened plates can protect from piercing. un treated leather i used was able to stop an arrow from my longbow bow at full draw (over 50lbs) and the arrow barely went through the first plate.
I read of a guy doing similar experiments like two decades ago and he came to the conclusion that only leather boiled in oil gave significant protection against cuts and piercing damage, but shrinkage was even worse and it became somewhat brittle so that you'd be better off using scales. Also, waxed leather had the least protection in his experiments. I don't know if it's still on TH-cam, but Skalagrimm did similar tests at the very beginning of his career.
Have you considered visiting the Bicolline LARP, it is one of the largest in North America, it is in Quebec Canada, on 350 Acres, the Grande Bataille is a 7 day event with 4 to 5 thousand people.
So I learned that hardening leather makes it eggselent at bludgeoning protection but it cracks under the pressure of knife damage. The experiment looks like a lot of fun but at times it wasn't over easy. At least you learned that you can bake your leather to protect your huevos :P
Just ordered our first tunics from Burgschneider about two weeks ago. The shipping was fast, and they are so comfy and can't wait to figure out what project we are going to work with them. muwa ha ha ha ha ha haaaa
Matt Easton has talked about possibly using the leather curaiss underneath the mail hauberk. I have done stick and foam fighting and I can see wanting the extra protection against bludgeoning strikes to the kidneys and similar areas.
This test also shows u what type of treatments should be used on a particular part of the body if ur making armor. For example, the Boild and Acid should be used for places like ur head,upper chest joints like ur knees, and elbows.
The cutting tests reminded me of an early part in the book "Here Kellar, Train This!" when the titular Kellar gets his first lion to train. Glossing over the dubious wisdom of housing the lion cage in the garage, the man knew he would need some protection, so he got himself a heavy horsehide coat. First time he stepped into the cage, the cat casually swiped at him with a paw. Kellar, not a complete idiot, immediately stepped back out of the cage and looked down. That fancy, heavy coat had protected him... once. The lion's claws had sheared through the leather completely, and the shirt underneath... and had left thankfully very shallow cuts on his skin as well. Just barely enough to draw blood, but definitely enough to let him know... yeah, he needed something better.
14:30 the background music that starts here is the one I can't help but associate with "Bushcraftowy" channel x_x That's where I heard it first and most often. I even have it on my Spotify playlist now.
I was a member of SCA, and I worked in the summers for SCA! The latter is a company that shares the abbreviation... "Svenska Cellulosa Aktiebolaget" and "Society for creative Anachronism" is not the same :-)
Haha, wiping the sword... I made a spear recently with a tang that went into the shaft (instead of a socket on the blade) and when I set the tang into the shaft, I wrapped it about five times with the leg of an old pair of jeans then banged it into the floor to set it. I thought those 10 layers of denim would be safe. I have scars on my palm now to remind me to respect edges.
I am sure I heard somewhere the the fascination with leather armor was because of people miss identifying brigandine. Which was layers of clothes or leather with metal plats riveted in the middle or on top.
id like to sew a bunch of brass beads on a jacket to completely fill it, ideally hexagonal. you could also do it with glass beads and make a more friendly case for glass armour
another way is gelliten or hoof like the wax or steric acid for a follow up maybe you could also see what ones you can put together & how they are with different combinations.
Your observations match the historical records. At least in europe it was usually used in conjunction with other armour like maille. Primarily to protect the joints against blunt force.
Greatings from Germany, Normaly you should be abel to "paint" the wax and the acid on it, on boath sides, pre head it, a littel bit, and dann "paint" it with the wax should give the same result as dunking it in
Try rawhide. Way tougher than leather. I think there was a Nova episode that shot bronze arrows into rawhide scales (similare to armor in King Tut’s tomb). It did not pierce all the way.
What a timing 😂I was thinking about doing something small for my archery club, and yesterday I talked with a friend about what could be the best way to harden leather
One thing I'd like to know is, how do you go about dying leather another color where the leather is already completely finished? Do you have to do something to take the protective finish off and then dye it or do you dye it directly over everything? Thanks for any answers.
You might be thinking about a different type of leather, such as in a Car or Seating/Sofa's. This leather is Vegetable Tan leather, which is very different from the Chemical Chrome styles. Vegetable Tans allow the use of Tools ( or Tooling) and can take in dyes in layers, as seen typically in Fantasy art or Belts or Knife holders etc.
@@Dazza_Doo I'm going to be working with leather armor. I didn't realize the different styles would produce different results. I'll have to ask the people I get the armor from. Thank you for your answer.
Tod Cutler has done some really good videos on how we think this was done historically, it's a lost art. The method I find most compelling is either baking or boiling with gelatin.
Clearly the hardened leather won't protect from the slice of a sword, but wading through thorns is probably much safer with the armor. There are lots of things that pierce skin (nettles) that aren't as aggressive as a knife thrust.😊
From what I have read, sew before assuming the thread can handle the hardening process. It theoretically seals the holes, depending on the method. I trust the source enough to spread its knowledge but I personally will test a small sample to see if it works for your purpose.
id really recommend watching tod's workshop video he tested his against his equivalent of a warbow and the thicker pieces almost fully stopped the arrows, also remember you only used 9oz leather the thinnest leather and just from what I saw when you cut through I don't think the leather was fully saturated which makes sense if it only soaked for a few minutes. also wax plus resin or just boiling resin would have made it way stronger
For boiling leather hardening I thought it used some sort of oil not water. Veg or another type I wish I knew but it seems likely olive or another vegi based would be less likely to decay than an animal fat base. I'm not surprised the impact testing the more rigid samples would show more permanent deformation.
So...in the cutting department, I would say mail is still superior to thick leather processed in any whichever way. Interesting. Choose your armour layers wisely. As always...dress for the occasion at hand. Try to find the perfect balance between protection and mobility.
The romans reported coming across leather armors that could stop a balista bolt. But the blut force was still leathal without a cardiophylax. Almost like ancient kevlar.
You could use afalling object from a set height to standardize force. I would be interested in how deep the dagger penetrated for each type. Same with slashing
Go to tryfum.com/SKILLTREE or scan the QR code and use code SKILLTREE to get your free FÜM Topper when you order your Journey Pack today.
4:42 The only difference between science and screwing around is writing it down. -Adam Savage
Making a You Tube video is a form of documentation.
The tests at the end is actually a good example for why Rogues would want the leather armor, for that bludgeoning protection. Most city night guards carried staves and clubs instead of swords, and being able to have the bludgeoning protection would be really handy at turning a potential broken bone into a bruise. Still, it’s easier to dodge and run than to tank a hit
I'm gonna steal this for my character ans worldbuilding if you're okay with that :D
Hello! There is one metho you didn't test, which Tod's Workshop tested succesfully:
Cooking (not boiling!) the leather in boneglue. Or the modern alternative: a Water-Gelatine mixture. This way the leather turns into a compund material, the fibrous leather, filled with hardened boneglue. In his test, Tod managed to chop into a wooden beam with that piece of leather
Tried this myself. Highly effective. Had the same problem of the leather shrinking though.
Still expiramenting.
@@peterschack570 I fear you will never stop it completely from shrinking
Todd's the man, no question.
One of the best things I’ve seen from another channel called Dark Horse Workshop, the thing Magnus uses is a high temperature mixture of beeswax and paraffin wax inside of a turkey crock pot, I have yet to find a used turkey crock pot at a goodwill or thrift store around me but I’m still on the hunt for that. But given that it’s in a large pot you’re able to get coverage a lot easier. I’ve learned a lot from this channel and that channel combined into a beautiful fusion dance of TH-cam leatherworking
FUUUUUSHION!!!! Man, I would fusion dance with darkhorse any day. I love his content, too! Thanks for watching!
Glad someone else was thinking about that vid of Magnus'.
Look for local auctions and liquidation companies... especially the ones who focus on store returns like Walmart, Home Depot, Amazon, etc. They get all sorts of things people buy and return including turkey crock pots and stock pots. I got a nearly five gallon stock pot for $5 once that I use for oversized projects like this.
Go to a resturant supply store and look for stock pots.
Yes I have done this and it's excellent. Just a FYI don't leave it in a hot car it will soften it up again but once it's cooled it's hard again
Boiling in water dries the leather out. Boiling it in oil allows it to retain more of the natural moisture, allowing for a little more flexibility. Also it doesnt take long to boil it. You can avoid it shrinking by doing it for a shorter time. The fibers shrink under a lot of heat
So essentially, deep fry the leather 😂😂
Does the leather shrink because it was stretched after it was removed and the heat relaxes it so it goes back to it's original dimensions? I am about to learn leather craft and don't know.
Do it shrink tho
Gambesons are such an impressive piece of armor kit. The way that layers of fabric scraps work to frustrate blades whether piercing or stabbing and distribute the forces of blows? really just sells why it was one of the most universal parts of a kit and the base layer for every upgrade.
It was also the only thing truly available to peasants, as cloth manufacturing was done in homes. Still a gambeson would take around 1000 hours of work to take the harvested flax and turn it into a functioning gambeson. :O
Working with arms and armour in a museum I’ve seen leather shields with little to no structural reinforcement, but they’re damn near half an inch thick, as for worn armour what little evidence there is from the medieval period appears to be a surface to rivet metal bands and/or plates to in order to stretch out one’s supply of metal
Man I swear everytime I think about doing a project you drop a video related to it
Because we have been watching you, Brian... we know your EVERY THOUGHT.
Ok, so, the odds of you being named Brian is super slim, but how freaked out were you if it was?🤣🤣🤣
@@SkillTree Collab with Blake when
Stearic acid in a 3:1 ratio ratio with glycerin is simple bar soap! When the stearic acid is combined with the glycerin into a single molecule you have lard (or other heavy fat), adding lye to the lard separates them into their individual units making soap! You don't need to worry about getting it on your hands...its just soap (well, 3/4 of soap)...and you can for sure re-use it! Stearic acid, palmitic acid, and other related fatty acids are also often mixed with glycerin and liquid oils to make a base for skin creams and other cosmetics. These same fatty acids combined with long-chain alcohols instead of the glycerin makes them into waxes, palmitic acid in particular is common in bees' wax. This is why there is so much overlap in the physical properties of these substances! Bonus fun fact--soap can be used like a wax to finish furniture. It rubs off and has to be repeated from time to time, but it works. Second bonus fun fact--when reading labels, you often see the acid name changed to include the (__ate) suffix which means it lost one hydrogen atom and took on a negative charge in the process, so free stearic or palmatic acid has it, but when these loose the acidic hydrogen they will be called stearate or palmitate. Sometimes they will also deliberately remove the hydrogen to neutralize it and add a different counter ion, which would then read sodium stearate or sodium palmitate , assuming sodium hydroxide was the neutralizing agent (if you use sodium hydroxide lye to make soap, you have done some of this!) Its all basically the same stuff, the name is just telling you what it is up to in the material being discussed!
Thx, Heisenberg
The channel "Tod's workshop" has an incredible video about boiling leather in hide glue called "making leather shield armor", look it up my guy, turns the leather into an entirely different material, it's amazing! seriously consider it in your next steps of leveling up! There's considerably more difficulty in this method but I believe in your ability to figure it out, be safe! ❤
Level up ideas - hardened leather belt pouch or some form of post-hardened stitched item. With larger pieces where you only need modest tempering, baked seemed like an easier option. On armor, to me it is like car crumple zones. It's there to disperse the impact energy and let you live to impart the final blow to your opponent (or bravely run away).
Started watching your videos about DIY armor, transitioned into watching a few more youtubers about leather working, now I'm hooked on making things with leather... Started with your vidoes, SOOOO thank you very much for being a Gate Way influencer for me!
New video idea: Quest food based on real historical rations. Hard Tack, Portable Soup and Pemican (you can find them all on Townsend's). Then when you have all of them made, you can finally build that hand cart that doubles as a camp cot and take all of your Wanderer items on a real (but in character) camping trip! You could even forage as one of your skills to add freshness to the rations!
That would be an AMAZING video!
@@gooses78 I KNOW, RIGHT⁉️
many moons ago some SCA friends were making waxed leather bracers by soaking flat leather pieces in melted wax, wrapping their arms in wet newspaper then wrapping the wax soaked leather around the arm. Unfortunately, one of the guys got a bit out of order and slapped the wax soaked leather on the other guy's bare arm. Cue the screaming. Fortunately, it was winter and they were working in a garage with quick access outdoors to the nearest snowbank which cooled the leather nicely. Interesting fact about waxed leather - when you cool it down quickly the wax hardens, as you would expect, and forms tightly around every hair on your arm. Thus, removing the piece of leather was just like doing a wax hair removal treatment, an adventure that he would like very much to never, ever repeat due to the extreme pain of having every hair on his forearm torn out by the roots.
22:17
You accidentally hit the egg with the mallet
Project idea: Make a Gambeson
I actuely made like a whole leather vest which I hardend. I bassicly chucked it into a bucket with a bunch of glue and fabric paint, then boiled a pot of water and threw the water into the bucket where I left it for like a whole day. The glue and paint are of the type that get's absorbed into water which causes the paint and glue to soack into the leather. When I took it out it turned the whole vest into something that could be worn by a kid. Relising that I cut the thing into 2 plates and sandwiched it between 2 planks to start drying. It took a whole week for it to dry, but came out so goddamn hard it litterly took a drill to get true it. That's not even a joke I had to put holes true it, so I could attech it to something and it was like drilling true a block of wood. I then bought a other piece of leather that I turned into a vest and I atteched the plates to it with leather cord. I know my plates are significantly harder then the stuff you made, but maby atteching the leather to something made out of wool would be a good idea, based on your tests.
To touch on your stab test......not even modern day stab resistant body armor is stab proof, all it does is severely reduce the depth of the stab and/or cut wound just as the leather did. Most ballistic rated soft body armors are the same with only a few brands of ballistic rated soft armor actually stopping blades completely. Ballistic rated hard body armor can stop blades in their tracks though. The fact that the blades barley penetrated an inch is a good result.
so tod's workshop did a great video on this using a real medieval recipe, basically what you want to do to harden leather is use something like the wax that embeds itself and saturates the fibers making a polymer (don't know if that's the right word) like with ballistic weave or fiberglass where you take the strands and soak them in a resin or plastic or whatever and it makes it super strong, basically you're filling in the dead space and creating a more cohesive structure also similar to impregnating wood with oil to increase its durability
Something that might be interesting to try is using a stabilizing resin! The process is used mostly on wood. Basically you put it in a vacuum chamber submerged in resin and the the vacuum pulls the air out and the resin replaces the air inside the piece. You then have to bake the resin piece to harden it.
One thing I learned is you can acheive different levels of hardness by using different water temps. On larger pieces form them first and let dry then use a sponge to apply your hot water (use tongs if using anything really hot) and wet your piece evenly and let it dry over a form if you have one. To get more protection from piercing or slashing damage use a laminated approach. Maky your armor in a couple of layers, forming the outer layer over top of the inner one so it fits properly and before glueing them together put a layer of silk between them. Silk is extremely strong and was used in laminated armor as extra protection against sword strikes. I learned this from Alex over at Black Raven Academy.
Look up the video Tod Cutler did on using boiled leather for an "impenetrable shield" based on a historic recipe
When you did the boiled leather armor(cuir bouillon), you left it in there like 2-3 seconds too long. That's why it shrunk so much. It doesn't take much when it's properly soaked through with water beforehand. Take it out next time right as it begins to lose its form and make sure you have your mold/clamps right there when you take it out. It won't be as stretchy, but it'll still have some of that elasticity so you can work it for a few minutes. add a little extra to any patterns you make to account for shrinkage. You can always hit the boiling water again if it's not quite as hard as you'd like, too.
I wanna note one problem people might see with the wax process. Running around in the heat will re-soften the piece and if you haven't properly buffed it then you might get some wax dripping on you. It might also lose some of its form over time.
For pt2 of this:
Glue hardening- Make a diluted solution water/carpenter's glue which is similar to the traditionally used hide glue. Bake, then soak from dry in this solution until it stops bubbling.
Resin- Get ahold of some fiberglass epoxy. Shape, bake, then soak until it stops bubbling. This has the best results from my understanding, but I have only done the glue method
Both of these should give you a similar result to the acid dipped example in the vid
if you want to take this up a notch put your piece into a vacuum chamber while soaking in your solution. This will really get your hardening mix into the leather and make the process go a bit faster. You can make your own chamber with a shop vac, some plywood and plexiglass (which you don't really need unless you just wanna watch the process.) Plus, after you've made this you're sure to find other reasons to use it.
FYI: coolers make good containers to soak stuff in and are fairly cheap
What is the proper solution, and do you have to warm it before using, with the glue method? Thanks. Never heard of the resin method, I'm intrigued.
@@daves8137 it needs to be fairly thin, like milky. iirc you can buy the glue in fairly large quantities. Like a gallon or half gallon. I mixed one of these with enough water to nearly fill an igloo lunch/hinge type cooler. I was doing forearm pieces. Came out....ig I'd call it wood like.
Yes, warmer water would be better, but not nearly boiling. Comfortable bath warm.
I have used the baking method for several holsters. I have found that it works better to dye after the hardending. A couple projects had to be redone because the color had darkened substantially during the process.
Thanks for Sharing, I found it interesting and hope that I could make my own Traditional Razor holder etc. Is there a way to Water proof it for use as a Shaving Soap mixing bowl? Hmm
if you flip the leather around, so ruff side out, it causes the fibers to get stuck together. This is why millitary boots need to be polished otherwise they become fuzzy. Worth a shot at any rate.
love the vieo.
Bro, you got to make a Brigandine! Might be tough to make with metal sheet and all but you must try. It'll be awesome.
I have done the bakeing part. Yes it will harden it like a rock but it dose shrink a little. So i would Suggest to make it a little bigger to get so when it shrinks to close to size. When baking do it on the lowest setting and few minutes you can mold it to you arm or leg or what ever you need it for
For protective armor you definitely want to go the laminate armor route. There are good documentations on the creation of Chinese paper armor and there is a video about the linothorax a Greek laminate linen armor. To waterproof these you put a thick layer of laquor on the outer layer.
Caveat to everything I am about to say: I am very much an amateur hobbyist when it comes to knowledge of this kind of thing. Not an expert, just the sort of person who likes to know broad info about a lot of subjects.
You will hear some people say online that leather armor was never a thing, historically speaking, specifically because it did very little against blades, couldn’t be reliably repaired, and leather wasn’t plentiful enough to be worth making armor from.
This is a deeply Eurocentric view of leather armor.
It is true that making European style plate armor out of leather is largely impractical. But Eastern-style lamellar armor was made using leather all the time. Lamellar, for those not familiar, is where you have an array of small and overlapping plates of a protective material affixed to what more or less amounts to a jacket. This is an oversimplification, but for the purposes of this comment, it’s sufficient. Lamellar plates were made from lots of different materials, but they were a fairly effective source of protection even when made from leather. Lamellar could be patched in a way plate leather couldn’t, because all you had to do was remove the damaged plates and replace them, and because the plates were small, you didn’t need big sheets of uncut leather to make them from, you could use what would normally be considered scrap. Plus the overlapping meant more protection than a single leather layer.
I would add that Leather was a product available to most people that had animals, and the reason it didn't seem that important to the West is that maybe it bio-degraded or it was a Low class status, that just my guess
You should check Tod's Workshop video on hardened leather. I think it is a great resource and can help improving the piercing and slashing resistence that your project is lacking of.
Love the channel, great work 😊😊😊
A colab would be awesome
22:55 this is what we call foreshadowing
23:06 🤣 oh, the hubris 🤣 I’m *cackling*
Oh, Clever, 😂 I’m so glad that you know that you Did A Stupid, but that was also the most funny thing I’ve seen out of this channel!! 🤣 top tier slapstick comedy!
Stearic acid or stearin is a vegetable based wax with a higher melting point than paraffin wax. It's used as an additive to paraffin wax to help mould release by increasing shrinkage slightly, and also aids burning time. Also it makes paraffin wax far more white than it's usual grey colour. And it's only very slightly acidic.
Betchya it'd get the leather far harder at a higher temperature. I think the melting point of stearin is over 80⁰C (you'll have to look up the American 😁) it's flashpoint about 190⁰C. Use that sugar thermometer and take it up to 130⁰-140⁰C. At around this level, like paraffin wax, it's viscosity changes and penetrates better with more heat. I used to make sand candles like this, pouring hot wax into preformed damp sand.
I've got decent results from using a cheap wide paddle hair straightener for stiffening leather and pressing edges, set to moderately hot it only takes a few seconds for each spot, just have be careful not to burn your piece.
I did my sca armour with 2 methods. For my elbows I used wet leather cut in a v and stretched it while sewing the v together. When it dried, it tightened up and the shape gave it structure. For the lames above and below, because they were flat was just soaking the back in shellac until it wouldn't absorb any more. Cheating? Yup. But I tooled wanna dyed before, the skin side was still beautiful, and it was rock hard. Worked great (though it did after years of heavy use soften up quite a bit.. Still didn't hurt to get whacked there.)
Nowadays I mostly harden leather in the oven because I do masks and they can retain their shapes very well provided the leather is more than 5 oz. First time I hardened leather, I did it in hot (not boiling!) water with collagen in it. I don't remember where I read that, but apparently air is pushed out, the warm water helps the pores open and the collagen replaces the air in the structure. I made a bracer out of 14 oz. leather and it's still rock solid today!
Sounds Amazing
I was wondering if you could make a video on how to tool lether
I think this was more useful for a portmanteau or pickelhaube. Interestingly one Arab writer said that it worked better if it was coated with a crushed mineral facing mixed with glue. I think that is close to using asphaltum, turpentine and boiled linseed oil which was called japanning on tools in the early 20th century but was around long before that.
It's really incredible how different leather can be based on what processes are done to it/temperatures used/etc.
As you mentioned there is a reason why a good defense uses multiple layers (like having gambeson underneath). There's different uses (every day wear vs going to war) and compromises (like expense and weight) in defense as well. Leather armour alone is not the best thing to be going into battle with (if memory serves historically leather armour as a primary defense was in use for less than century around the 12th century or so), but not only does it have a good aesthetic to the modern eye I think it's compromises make it perfectly reasonable wear for an adventurer.
According to Russ Mitchell over at Winged Sabre Historical Martial Arts, leather armor in Hungary, Poland and other Slavic countries was made by half tanned leather. They used thick leather band tanned it so only the outside was leather, the interior was still rawhide and super tough. You could decorate and paint and oil the outside.
Yep, absolutely half-tanned. Todd's workshop had a great set of videos from last summer on using gelatin both with and without trying the pulverized glass and iron filings in the layers. I can't remember if Todd managed to use half tanned, though I know he mentioned it.
That was a great episode. I think he did have half tanned.
Thank you for sharing such a great experiment. Really interesting - and surprising - results.
Best description, in a book, for how they did boiled leather was for quick/cheap armor additions. The person who would be wearing it would wear something heavy, and the entire leather pieces would be boiled and then forced into shape on the person who would need to wear it. Then the leatherworker would do some quick cuts to remove it after it cools/hardens to be made into the armor pieces. That was in the Asimov/Wu Robots in Time series with the last book which was set in either dark ages or medieval england.
OLD Leather Smith here, interesting, I found how 2 harden leather by mistake. U soak it in water with about 3 drops of liquid dish soap & let dry, do it 3 or more times depending on how hard you want it 2 B. I have a piece on my shop door 2 show clients when I am in residence or not. One client asked how I did it & I told her it took a while I dipped it 7 times outside each time 2 dry, works like a charm.
GOD'S BLESSINGS ✝️🥎🙃
great video, i was thinking what about the chemicals used for hardening fiber glass???
Great video! Perfect timing because I was just thinking about armor. One other thing I'd like to know is how pliable are the different forms for working? Like if I hardened some leather into the shape of a bracer, could I still insert some rivets? Does sewing afterwards become impossible for some of them?
Fun fact: despite the name cuir bouilli *the boiled leather* it was never boiled in water. It was dipped in hot wax or oil to give it that hardiness and resistance. And if it was thick enough, it would be as hard as metal but with less than half the weight of metal
Editing as the video go.
For the oven the normal treatment is 200 degrees fahrenheit for 20 minutes to 70 minute beyond that and it does burn and shrink.
One more edit:
I didn't see you use a product Fiebings made. It's called leather firmer. People using it are saying it makes the leather just as hard as baking the leather but you just have to brush it on and let it dry. Although dipping it like when you dye leather works way better.
Last edit: you're mostly right about leather not being completely protective. If you want real leather armor you need high ounces, you got 9-10oz for costumes, like 11-12oz is used for larp foam contact. Around 15 oz is for SCA for Hema contact which still isn't completely real combat but close. You gotta really harden 15 oz leather if you wanna stop slashes. And even then, Leather is really to slow the attack down so the under armor can stop it. Like leather on top of chainmail, leather slows it down and the chainmail stops the cutting, after that you won't really feel anything.
Leather on top of (chain)mail isn't really useful. Mail stops cuts and most stabs anyways. The only thing mail is pretty much useless against is bludgeoning, so wearing it under mail could help there. Ok, it would also help over it, but it would be cut to shreds, so wearing it under protects both, the leather and the user
@@Glimmlampe1982 but what you are describing is using the leather for is aesthetics, putting leather on top is meant to soften the blow and act as a layer of armor. Yes chainmail will stop slashes and some piercing but not a lot of it. A thin point on a blade will tear through chainmail. And blunt force against chainmail will hurt just as bad. Like Skall demonstrated, a chainmail coif with a padded gambeson underneath still destroyed the ballistics head when slashed by a sword due to kinetic force. Leather slows and softens the initial blow, then the chainmail stops any lethal damage, then the cloth underneath would cushion. If done right you wouldn't feel a thing. It's how the Vikings did their armor. I would also like to point out that leather used to not be a luxury item, if you wanted some you could get some from your livestock or just go hunting for it, you didn't have to pay expensive prices for it, iron and steel were way more valuable
@@dustinthesmoke7757 how is wearing the leather under mail for aesthetics? You couldn't even see it then.
For reducing blunt damage there's no real difference between leather over or under mail as the mail, as you said, won't do much anyways. And the leather would also protect you from mail rings being pressed into your skin if it's under the mail as a bonus.
About the Vikings, we don't really no much about Vikings use of armor. I know from like two helmets attributed to vikings and nothing else. There might some descriptions in the sagas I don't remember (haven't read to many of them too) but chances are they used mail, if they had any in the first place, they used it like they did later in high medieval times. Which means, close fitted and with nothing under it. The use of padding came way later and only briefly before plate became a thing. The whole gambeson under mail is more a modern thing, because we today want to beat us up and return to work on Monday. Back in the day armor was used for saving your life, not to protect you from injury or even pain, it's just there to keep you alive.
Also pop culture Vikings are very idealized. Especially early vikings weren't the warrior dudes we see in movies. Those were the poor second or third born without much hope and basically no wealth. It changed to the end of the Viking age, but then it wasn't really Viking raiders any more but more typical armies with typical soldiers
Leather wasn't as common too as you describe it. Livestock is pricey, even more than today. Also you can't use any leather, im pretty sure pig skin is pretty useless (don't remember why exactly), goat, sheep and deer skin is way to thin for anything protective. You got to use some kind of cattle, buffalo or bison, which isn't readily available.
If I think about it, armor grade leather is probably way more affordable today than back then.
As far as I know there is no historical source for what exactly boiled (or blackened) leather was composed of. Tod's workshop did some videos on the topic awhile ago and mentioned that while the sources mention leather armor they neglected to include how it's made.
@@Glimmlampe1982 not sure where you are getting your information from but I'll give you what I know from history books, documentaries, from my world history college professors, and from TH-camrs that study this stuff as well.
Gambeson are not a newer invention, we've traced gambeson back as far as the tenth century, they did wear them all throughout medieval periods, they were worn under mail and under plate armor in later centuries. Some gambeson were armor themselves.
With chainmail you absolutely cannot wear it by itself, if you don't believe you can look up videos here on TH-cam, chainmail does zero to stop blunt force and piercing damage. As I mentioned skallagrim, shad, and others have found wearing just chainmail will actually make the blunt force worse than not wearing the chainmail at all. Even having a gambeson underneath doesn't completely stop blunt force from fracturing or breaking bones. But if you put leather or plate armor on top of chainmail on top of gambeson it helps mitigate the damage a lot more.
With leather you have to find suppliers and pay high prices, learned that when I started leather crafting. Back then you didn't have laws stopping you from just going out in the wilderness and killing a few deer or other animals just to get the hides and using them for what you needed. You could also buy it for a lot cheaper than you could now, like I said leather wasn't nearly as valuable as it is today metal was worth way more, leather was just another random everyday object. Leather also does help with blunt damage unlike what you said. It's better at absorbing and spreading it out instead of keeping it concentrating on one spot. If you hit the leather it absorbs the front of it, the rest is pushed into the chainmail then the gambeson cushions it so you feel as little as possible.
Yes armor is meant to be protective throughout history we've worked on armor countless times throughout history so that you keep from getting hurt and can stay in the fight.
In 3rd/3.5 edition D&D, I houseruled armor to give damage resistance instead of making you harder to hit. (I also decreased the damage die of EVERYTHING except falling damage, which I increased to at least give gravity a chance). Leather armor gave 10 DR against bludgeoning weapons and 5 DR against slashing weapons, but nothing against piercing weapons. Glad to see my houserules are at least somewhat close to reality.
Yay! The channel is back on leather!
From what I've been sble to find out, actual medieval leather armor wad made in layers; Leather with Silk and Suede bonded to it. The silk and suede help with slashing and some stabbing protection.
Hope that helps
Layers of linen glued togeather is supposed to be able to stop a ballista bolt. I haven't personally tested it, but worn under the leather it should work for piercing damage.
Quite often armor with made up of segmented plates that would overlap, so think about your potato scaled on top of another potato is scaled on top of another potato between the added thickness and the mobility of those plates helps absorb some of that shock and transfer energy before it can get through. Also historic battle-ready swords were rarely razor sharp so you're back to bludgeoning damage anyway
That sword…
It will keelllll
may i suggest lamellar? use your favored style of hardening leather after making a bunch of little plates and the overlapping hardened plates can protect from piercing. un treated leather i used was able to stop an arrow from my longbow bow at full draw (over 50lbs) and the arrow barely went through the first plate.
I read of a guy doing similar experiments like two decades ago and he came to the conclusion that only leather boiled in oil gave significant protection against cuts and piercing damage, but shrinkage was even worse and it became somewhat brittle so that you'd be better off using scales. Also, waxed leather had the least protection in his experiments.
I don't know if it's still on TH-cam, but Skalagrimm did similar tests at the very beginning of his career.
Have you considered visiting the Bicolline LARP, it is one of the largest in North America, it is in Quebec Canada, on 350 Acres, the Grande Bataille is a 7 day event with 4 to 5 thousand people.
I've waiting a long time for this video. Super pumped! 👍
So I learned that hardening leather makes it eggselent at bludgeoning protection but it cracks under the pressure of knife damage. The experiment looks like a lot of fun but at times it wasn't over easy. At least you learned that you can bake your leather to protect your huevos :P
Just ordered our first tunics from Burgschneider about two weeks ago. The shipping was fast, and they are so comfy and can't wait to figure out what project we are going to work with them. muwa ha ha ha ha ha haaaa
Matt Easton has talked about possibly using the leather curaiss underneath the mail hauberk.
I have done stick and foam fighting and I can see wanting the extra protection against bludgeoning strikes to the kidneys and similar areas.
I'm glad to see you back on the screen. Not that i didn't like the other person it's just i like your content so much.
I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but the stress marks in waxed or acid treated leather comes right out if you heat it again.
This test also shows u what type of treatments should be used on a particular part of the body if ur making armor. For example, the Boild and Acid should be used for places like ur head,upper chest joints like ur knees, and elbows.
Anybody else find info on the "Firebrand" sword maker? I don't think there's a link in the description.
Sorry! Here you go! firebrandswords.com/new-products
Would have been great to see you test Weaver Leather's Leather hardener, I've heard it's pretty good and might be similar to your acid hardened one.
great vid, every time I had a question like "but how hard are the bits!" or "but did it get through to the dowel!" you answered it lol
The cutting tests reminded me of an early part in the book "Here Kellar, Train This!" when the titular Kellar gets his first lion to train. Glossing over the dubious wisdom of housing the lion cage in the garage, the man knew he would need some protection, so he got himself a heavy horsehide coat. First time he stepped into the cage, the cat casually swiped at him with a paw. Kellar, not a complete idiot, immediately stepped back out of the cage and looked down. That fancy, heavy coat had protected him... once. The lion's claws had sheared through the leather completely, and the shirt underneath... and had left thankfully very shallow cuts on his skin as well. Just barely enough to draw blood, but definitely enough to let him know... yeah, he needed something better.
Where is the firebrand link? I want a custom sword :P
I love the shrinky dinks😊 reference. Wonder how many even know what that is?
14:30 the background music that starts here is the one I can't help but associate with "Bushcraftowy" channel x_x That's where I heard it first and most often. I even have it on my Spotify playlist now.
Chainmaile under the leather helped with protecting a person
I was a member of SCA, and I worked in the summers for SCA! The latter is a company that shares the abbreviation... "Svenska Cellulosa Aktiebolaget" and "Society for creative Anachronism" is not the same :-)
Haha, wiping the sword... I made a spear recently with a tang that went into the shaft (instead of a socket on the blade) and when I set the tang into the shaft, I wrapped it about five times with the leg of an old pair of jeans then banged it into the floor to set it. I thought those 10 layers of denim would be safe. I have scars on my palm now to remind me to respect edges.
You could use afalling object from a set height to standardize force
I am sure I heard somewhere the the fascination with leather armor was because of people miss identifying brigandine.
Which was layers of clothes or leather with metal plats riveted in the middle or on top.
yeah that is probably where "riveted leather armour" came from, and consequently a huge part of fantasy armour
id like to sew a bunch of brass beads on a jacket to completely fill it, ideally hexagonal. you could also do it with glass beads and make a more friendly case for glass armour
another way is gelliten or hoof like the wax or steric acid for a follow up maybe you could also see what ones you can put together & how they are with different combinations.
Went with the Pro Dye, I see you're also a man of culture.
Your observations match the historical records.
At least in europe it was usually used in conjunction with other armour like maille. Primarily to protect the joints against blunt force.
What about multiple layers of leather? I wonder if you could even use thinner leather but in layers. Like plywood or quilted linen?
Greatings from Germany, Normaly you should be abel to "paint" the wax and the acid on it, on boath sides, pre head it, a littel bit, and dann "paint" it with the wax should give the same result as dunking it in
I'm sure it's easier to paint on than to Deep fry it :D
Try rawhide. Way tougher than leather. I think there was a Nova episode that shot bronze arrows into rawhide scales (similare to armor in King Tut’s tomb). It did not pierce all the way.
What a timing 😂I was thinking about doing something small for my archery club, and yesterday I talked with a friend about what could be the best way to harden leather
Thank you for the self sacrifice in your quest to reproduce cuir bouilli, Keep questing after new knowledge.
One thing I'd like to know is, how do you go about dying leather another color where the leather is already completely finished? Do you have to do something to take the protective finish off and then dye it or do you dye it directly over everything? Thanks for any answers.
You might be thinking about a different type of leather, such as in a Car or Seating/Sofa's. This leather is Vegetable Tan leather, which is very different from the Chemical Chrome styles. Vegetable Tans allow the use of Tools ( or Tooling) and can take in dyes in layers, as seen typically in Fantasy art or Belts or Knife holders etc.
@@Dazza_Doo I'm going to be working with leather armor. I didn't realize the different styles would produce different results. I'll have to ask the people I get the armor from. Thank you for your answer.
When doing any test like these start with the control piece
I loved this episode!😊
Thank you for watching!
I've done steric with wax
Tod Cutler has done some really good videos on how we think this was done historically, it's a lost art. The method I find most compelling is either baking or boiling with gelatin.
Clearly the hardened leather won't protect from the slice of a sword, but wading through thorns is probably much safer with the armor. There are lots of things that pierce skin (nettles) that aren't as aggressive as a knife thrust.😊
I am curious if should you harden it before or after you sew it together.
From what I have read, sew before assuming the thread can handle the hardening process. It theoretically seals the holes, depending on the method. I trust the source enough to spread its knowledge but I personally will test a small sample to see if it works for your purpose.
My god you made leather roof shingles. Side note boiling in hide glue works better Todd did cool tests .
You can make a leather piece and attach some 14 gauge fitted sheet metal that might be easier and more protective
id really recommend watching tod's workshop video he tested his against his equivalent of a warbow and the thicker pieces almost fully stopped the arrows, also remember you only used 9oz leather the thinnest leather and just from what I saw when you cut through I don't think the leather was fully saturated which makes sense if it only soaked for a few minutes. also wax plus resin or just boiling resin would have made it way stronger
How awesome, such a great work 👍👍
I love it how your arm doing is it ok
For boiling leather hardening I thought it used some sort of oil not water. Veg or another type I wish I knew but it seems likely olive or another vegi based would be less likely to decay than an animal fat base.
I'm not surprised the impact testing the more rigid samples would show more permanent deformation.
So...in the cutting department, I would say mail is still superior to thick leather processed in any whichever way. Interesting. Choose your armour layers wisely. As always...dress for the occasion at hand. Try to find the perfect balance between protection and mobility.
The romans reported coming across leather armors that could stop a balista bolt. But the blut force was still leathal without a cardiophylax. Almost like ancient kevlar.
You could use afalling object from a set height to standardize force.
I would be interested in how deep the dagger penetrated for each type. Same with slashing
The acid leather is intriguing but I'm super interested in how to make the boiled leather look good and be consistent in thickness and get decorated!