Social Justice is the Social Gospel of our age. Sounding good on its face with it's appeals and Christian terms, it ultimately leads away from the Gospel of Christ and the true Justice of the Triune God.
Matt 7:15-19 :"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits." Tas demonstrated by the mobs in the streets destroying properties and bodies, and the mobs on Twitter destroying reputations and mental well-being the fruit of Social Justice is division, hatred, fear, legalism, cruelty, violence and murder.
My brother loves Tim Keller and espouses him constantly. But lately I've noticed my brother crying over his white guilt. He said when he was in sixth grade, the teacher had this brilliant idea in letting everyone vote for the most popular kid in class. The top two winners were the only white kids in the room. One a very popular outgoing boy and the other my brother a shy smart Christian kid. My now 60 year old brother cried as he said it was his "white privilege! " We other siblings were aghast. It couldn't possibly be the fact he was a nice kid, honest, smart, good to others. But my brother is lost in wokeness and his three classically homeschooled kids graduated from state universities completely woke. They believe they know better than their aunts and uncles. So here we are. The motto on the side of the barn has been repainted.
The Old Testament *commands* owners of crops to leave certain parts of their produce unharvested so that the needy would have food. Perhaps you’d say that by definition any command to provide for the poor is not charity, but this would, it seems to me, be forgetting that all of the crops belong to God and thus the unharvested crops are at the least God’s act of benevolence/charity, even if you’d deny that it’s an act of charity by the human steward. At any rate, it’s forced and it’s for the benefit of the needy. Whether we call it charity or not isn’t really the issue. Grace and peace to you!
@@jeffryblair6816 Hey brother, good point, however I don't think being obedient to God is the same as being forced by armed men. Even doing it out if duty to God is hypocrisy if your heart isn't in it. Romans 13:9 the commandments are summed up in this word, you shall love your neighbor as yourself.
@Casus Belli Yes, it's true that, for instance, Ruth went out in the morning to glean in the field behind Boaz's harvest crew. They didn't gather, bundle, and deliver the finished product to the doorstep of the two widows. To bridge the gap between the ancient text and our modern context is, however, a necessary part of responsible biblical interpretation. So, we'd need to think a bit more about what such provision for the poor looks like in our current economic arrangement. Obviously we can't expect a widow in the Bronx to walk to Iowa to pick corn. I realize that's silly, but you get the point. This is a very difficult issue. We live in a behemoth of a society, and no problems of any consequence will find perfect solutions. Blessings to you!
Aha! I've been listening to Keller this year and a lot of what he said was so good...but there were occasionally little things that were a bit adrift. Then a Christian I respect said he didn't like Keller but didn't say why. So somehow (? God's providence) I started hearing all kinds of things about social justice and was compelled to get an understanding of it. Oh my. Humanism, world view clashing violently with the Christian world view! Traced back to Keller. There you go...a wolf in sheep's clothing. A lie wrapped up in a pretty package. Thanks for this and praise God, His truth prevails!
His social justice teachings nearly tore apart our church. The diaconate ran with it and started partnering with progressive left wing activists, spouting critical race theory, climate justice, racial justice, food justice, housing justice, immigration justice, reconciliation, and reparations. They actually believed that acts of mercy are the chief way of preaching the Gospel. Works are not the Gospel! They are the fruit of our salvation. Sharing what Jesus did for us is the Gospel. They aligned with godless, marxist rebels to change “oppressive systems”, never spoke of Jesus, were concerned with temporal needs, but claimed they were “doing justice” and being salt and light. They referred to Keller’s book Generous Justice and the training they took from Redeemer. It’s called City to City. When some of us read his book, we saw it was eisegesis, not exegesis. Deceptive and dangerous dogma. His City to City manual was reminiscent of ACORN - left wing community organizing but with a fake veneer of Christianity. It was not biblical justice. Biblical justice is blind, it holds no partiality. Social justice requires a victim and a perpetrator. It looks to govt for salvation, not to Jesus. Sin, hell, salvation, redemption, transformation, forgiveness, repentance - nowhere to be found. We razed the Diaconate and started new, but so many younger members had been poisoned by their ideology. We are still recovering. Run from his teachings!
@@ag7075 I do not know for sure, but if he ever believed the gospel, he went off the rails decades ago, being influenced by all the leftists in NYC and brought many false teachings into his ministry and to the Christian church at large. Was he saved? Only the Lord truly knows.
I've heard and read many people who claim Keller helped them immensely at some point in their Christian journey and I suppose I could make the same claim, but now I believe that if I had the same discerning mind as I do now, I would have easily seen that his work has always been rife with error, ranging from subtle to major in certain areas. And now knowing his biography back to the 70's it's much easier to understand what he's really been saying all along. His recent social justice seismic shift is not recent at all; he's always been there, waiting for the right opportunities to expose what is now a rather large following, based on people's misunderstanding him as an exquisitely insightful, reformed theologian, to the error of just another social gospel rooted in his deeply flawed understanding of true justice. I couldn't recommend any of his work in good conscience.
How lovely of you to arrogate Christ's role at the Judgment Seat. TH-cam has a hundred hours or more of Keller's preaching the Word, and doing it faithfully. The fact that he's recognized how appalling the American Protestant churches' response to the poor has historically been speaks only well of him.
@@bobtaylor170 I did not pronounce any judgment on him. You can read my comment again to see that. I think you will have a hard time proving out that American protestant churches have had a worse response to the poor compared to ...(fill in the blank with any country/denomination category). Is there always room for improvement? Yes. Part of the issue is that in a country that has experienced so much prosperity, it's hard to see abject poverty present and one might think there's not as much of a need. So many of those funds go oversees and the numbers prove it: American Christians are the most generous of any group of people in the world with at least their money. I've been to the 3rd world and have seen true poverty firsthand and that's where I focus about half of my charitable funds as the aid is given in conjunction with the Gospel being presented. Christian charity and the Gospel must go hand in hand. And I am saying this as a kid who grew up in a poor (the American definition of it), broken, drug-ridden home. Keller has said this: because you have a responsibility to give to the poor, the poor of have claim to some of what you have. This would lend itself to the idea that Keller is for redistributive schemes. I have not heard him say it specifically but as much as he's talked about it, I would tend to believe he is for it. He's spoken very highly of socialist believers in Scotland as well. Of course these are political socialists and not the sort that we see in Acts where people were voluntarily sharing all things in common. God calls us to have a generous heart to the poor as He as been generous to us, those who are poor in spirit, but absolutely nowhere is the idea that the poor have a right to something that belongs to someone else presented in the Bible.
Dang good stuff, pointing out how the Tim Keller's in evangelicalism unequally apply even their own standards really does bring a lot of clarity. Thanks!
Tim Keller has always been a social justice warrior. He is a good words craftsman who twists Scripture to fit his narrative of the Social Justice Gospel.
Well, he is picking up on something missed in our culture, the coporate nature of sin. If you read his article carefully he is not just blindly adopting progressive positions. quarterly.gospelinlife.com/the-sin-of-racism/
@@lierox9 Ezekiel 18- each person will be held accountable for his/her sins. Not responsible for what others do. Sorry, I totally disagree with him. The Lord will hold everyone individually accountable to what that person does.
@@wandacorley1 That's a good point. But how do we reconcile that with Daniel 9, Daniel realises that open shame belongs to him and his people, "we have sinned against you, we have rebelled against him, we have not listened to your servants the prophets". This group identity with sin, is actually key for Jesus to represent us on the cross. He, as a human, can pay for our sin, because he is our group representative in our sin. Let's say Hitler's son was a christian. Would natural compassion not urge him to have a special love for the Jews, because of the sins of his father? Or would he become a Christian and just carry on like normal. His family impacts how his faith plays out. As it did for Daniel, and Tim Keller argues, as it should for us in some way.
@@lierox9 If we go by that logic, then black people are guilty of racism by proxy too. Not only were the tribal leaders slave owners but also slave traders. There has been slavery since the beginning of time. It’s not unique. If that’s the case, then every ethnic group should be held responsible for their implicit guilt. Jesus never made mention of corporate guilt. We are one body, one race irregardless of skin color. Every ethnic group has something to be ashamed of in its past etc. the Body of Christ does not operate like the nation of Israel. My shame is my sin against a Holy God (Psalm 51). We are all equal in that we all have sinned, in that we are also image bearers of God. But all need to repent and place faith in Christ for forgiveness of sin.
Vance Havner, in his essay "Gamaliel the Appeaser," includes an unattributed quote about Desiderius Erasmus that could well apply to Tim Keller and those of his ilk, who pride themselves on their "nuanced" views: He [Luther] dwells on the ingenious carefulness of Erasmus to avoid decisive utterance, attempting always to shade down his Yes till it is almost a No, and to burnish up his No until it might almost pass for a Yes. Erasmus is a Proteus! He is an eel... In the debate...people of academic culture, of speculative disengagement and serene intellectual indifference, sided with Erasmus. The Moderates throughout Europe, the gentlemen of courts, the semi-skeptical intelligences of the universities, told the golden-mouthed apostle of compromise that he was in the right... The heart of Christianity beat with Luther instead. I suspect that Tim Keller has always held his cultural Marxist views, but remained quiet until Evangelicalism moved far enough leftward that he felt safe in coming out of the closet. We're warned against such people in Jude 4: "For there are certain men crept in unawares..."
I find it kindof funny that, despite this, Erasmus was probably right. Even in this day and age the reformation of the Catholic Church would be an infinitely better and more possible solution than it’s elimination, and far more tolerable to Christ’s priestly prayer than permanent schism.
@@matthewdyer2926 I bet I could, if I tried ;-) Especially considering that after 500 years the Catholic Church still dwarfs all of the others. Seems hard to eliminate.
On the caring for the poor, Christ talked about giving to the poor so your left hand wouldn't know what the right was doing. How that could happen when it was forced upon you by the government (or on the people who actually pay taxes) is an argument I'd quite like to hear.
Since I was saved 15 years ago, I've wondered why American Christianity is not like Biblical Christianity. This is why. Our leaders have been in love with the world and have given us over to the party that seeks to ban Christianity.
At 4:35, "A vote for Biden is not necessarily a vote for unrestricted abortion" Serious question here. How would a vote for Biden not absolutely be a vote for unrestricted abortion?
Tim Keller preaches the gospel soundly, when pressed. There was a particular demographic that seemed to be head-over-heals about Redeemer Church when it picked up steam. When a church plant opened in a convenient vicinity, people left their local Presbyterian churches for something they considered to be a new beacon for conservative theology and liberal social politics. You can imagine how many young professionals, academics, and graduate students poured into these churches. Even name-dropping Tim Keller's name as a contact gave young pastors credibility. Me, I think Pastor Keller beats around the bush, and he wants to embrace a particular Christian mindset that you are okay to partake fully in the world as long as your Christian principles stay intact. It's a high-wire act. The world is stronger than us, and even good pastors fall into its soothing grasp. When a ministry is supported by a particular political and economic demographic, it is easy to say that the ministry is reaching out to them. It can also easily coddle and enable the particular values of that demographic. I feel Pastor Keller softens the gospel to speak to the demographics of his congregation, and it has almost become his signature sermon and speaking style.
Excellent. You got me, subscribed. Keller is wobbly, perhaps because his target audience, potential customers are NY lefties. It’s hard not to do whatever one needs to do to be seen as cool by them. Perhaps it’s irresistible.
I can’t say I’m all that surprised. He has used Theistic Evolution since before The Reason for God (and within it) as a rationale to the left to that it’s okay to think exactly what you think on that without challenge. Maybe it is well reasoned and even well intentioned. I’ll even go as far as to give grace and say maybe he’s right, but it always seemed to me it was more appeasement to a contrary worldview he somewhat shared. Now it appears that pattern expanding to other topics.
I will never vote for anyone who promotes abortion, no matter what party that person belongs to. It may not have abortions listed in the Bible, but as mere human beings we know how horrible this is. It does matter who we support. We will stand before God one day, and give an account of who, and what we supported. Do we really believe God is ok with abortions???
Matt 7:15-19 :"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits." As demonstrated by the mobs in the streets destroying properties and bodies, and the mobs on Twitter destroying reputations and mental well-being the fruit of Social Justice is division, hatred, fear, legalism, cruelty, violence and murder. Those who love their Freedom in Christ must reject even the appearance of the evil of the false gospel of Social Justice.
Interesting. It has been years since our church did small groups based on a Keller book. We never did one of bis books again. In our small group, it became evident the book was a mix of solid biblical insight and occasional tomfoolery.
I was on the diaconate of an ARP congregation about 10 years ago, and the pastor asked us to read Keller's Generous Justice. Because I was raised in an ELCA congregation, I can smell liberal tripe a mile off. As I was reading Generous Justice, it instantly raised numerous red flags for me, and my conclusion was that Keller was a wolf in sheep's clothing. We left that congregation shortly thereafter because I did not want my young (at the time) sons to hear Keller quoted (in a favorable light) from the pulpit, as the pastor often did. Keller offered the proverbial "milk with some poison in it" IMO.
They aren't even in power yet, but the signs aren't good. Beginning the year praying And dare I ask, oh Lord, peace even in this chamber now and evermore, We ask it in the name of the monotheistic god, Brahma, and God known by many names by many different faiths. Amen and awoman. Is this what Tim had in mind?
I don’t think Keller’s quotes are in conflict. One is his personal opinion on a specific issue and one is a very general stance as he advocates for tolerance of other Christians political decisions as they correspond to their personal convictions. If you take the quotes together it’s more like he’s saying “although I believe this about privilege, it is acceptable for other Christians to have a different stance”.
Without knowing the heart of those who perpetrate these equivocations, it seems as if certain Evangelical leaders abhor the thought of being culturally irrelevant.
I took Tim's Tweet not as permission to vote Democratic (or Republican for that matter) but to caution every Christian not to implore a vote this way or that way because of their Christian faith. I think to suggest Keller's Tweet as a permission to vote for Biden is a stretch. Keller is advocating liberty of conscience rather than a faith-based coercion. Hence, the statement, "you cannot say (to another Christian) you must vote for this person or against that person if you are a Christian." That is not permission to vote Demo or Republican, but rather it implores all Christians not to impose their particular convictions on another Christian when it comes to the vote. I took this liberty very seriously and did not vote for either Trump or Biden. Nor did I impose my convictions on anyone else with any qualifications of what a Christian vote must be. I did encourage others not to vote for Trump or Biden, but I didn't demand it either. I think that is what Keller's Tweet was all about.
I am disheartened to hear that Tim Keller has given counsel in this way. Keller and John Piper are good friends and yet I believe they'd differ in the advice they'd give on this matter. It does seem to me that Keller has 'sold out' in order to make his views seem 'less extreme' to the sophisticated of New York, his main audience. In an article entitled, "Why a Woman Shouldn't Run for Vice President, but Wise People May Still Vote for Her" here, www.desiringgod.org/articles/why-a-woman-shouldnt-run-for-vice-president-but-wise-people-may-still-vote-for-her, Piper makes the following statement, "In my view, defending abortion is far worse sin for a man than serving as Vice President is for a woman." It is not my goal to discuss women in leadership, but discernment in voting responsibility. I think a title along the same lines discussing a choice for the 2020 presidency would be, *"Why a Loud Mouthed, Boastful, Pride-filled, Adulterous Man Shouldn't Run for President but Wise People SHOULD Still Vote for Him."* If you've read this far, you may wish to go here for more, www.desiringgod.org/articles/vote-like-no-one-else-will
Wow, that was really good. I've been a Tim Keller fan for years. I still think that most of what he says in good. But that he'd be ok to vote for a party that has no - literally no qualm regarding abortion is too much. I'd have preferred he just said that he wouldn't advise anyone on how to vote. For an example of no qualm democrats on abortion see this, th-cam.com/video/Wy5Pp6eU9Fo/w-d-xo.html
Serious error yes, but I wouldn’t go that far and brother I’d be careful with that language “for the judgement you use against him, you too will be judged”. If you are absolutely confident he is a snake and deceiver, then fair enough, but if not I’d be more careful
Philip He's given the bride of Christ over to the Democrat Party and the pagan left that seeks to ban Christianity. Can you name one redeeming thing about the Democrat Party? Just one?
@@philpopper8879 Sorry, but promoting guilt on the basis of skin color and making my son's the target of ever increasing violence is evil. Tim is using the name of Jesus to promote a Marxist ideology. A pox be on him.
Tim Keller and the people like him, making sure that they let you know how The Lord’s teachings are needing an update for the current trends of society. Total. Garbage.
I enjoyed this and am in full agreement with Mr. Wilson. I do, however, have to critique that it seems like Doug is jumping the gun on claiming that Keller's statement was in order to alleviate backlash for voting for Biden, for himself or others. I didn't take it as that. I saw it as a generic response to voting in a time where voting is being talked about a lot.
Yeah, I saw this with Russell Moore blatantly and I noticed this about Tim Keller subtly. The way he would talk about the Gospel on universities and in other non-Christian settings way squishy. Also the way the TGC started to talk about LGBTQ issues.
It is either the height of naïveté or a shameless attempt to undermine Truth that would lead Mr. Keller to say voting for Biden could simply mean 'supporting equity' or 'voting against poverty!' I prefer to believe it's the former, but either way the consequences of such thinking are terrible.
An absolute layman here. It appears that God is continually on the side of the downtrodden and against the oppressor. There are many warnings in the bible against the oppression of the widow and the orphan. It seems however that when God's people had fallen to their absolute lowest, they sacrificed their children. Some examples, Lev. 20;2; Deut. 12;31; 2 Ki. 16;3; 17;31; 23;10; Jer. 7;30-32; 19;3-5; Ezek. 16;20-21
I wasn't Christian when I voted to legalise abortion in my country and I'm not sure I would now but I didn't approve of abortion at the time (as in I'd never have chosen one or had sex with a girl who would). I did note the statistics that show that people who have the freedom to abort or access higher support (and less social judgement) as a parent did choose to have less abortions than in right wing countries where it was banned, which I think is telling, so I voted for more compassion and less abortions that were safely (for the woman) carried out. I was also aware that God (who I was beginning to believe in at the time but very vaguely - I knew that truth/love was responding to my desperate search in ways that had to be a conscious supernatural entity but it was early days) gave us the freedom to sin and that our manmade laws were not going to be in the equation when He judges us all personally. However, now that I am Christian... this does bother me. I'm not sure whether He will allow me any credit for my smart way of figuring out what now appears to be a lot less of a grey area. I know Christ's blood washes me clean but it still weighs heavy. I think I would have to vote no now even though stats say more people would do the right thing but God didn't put me in charge of their choices and it's not like they'll be forced to, especially not if they reach out to God for help. I made it easier for some who wouldn't have done it otherwise though... That WAS my choice. However, I would be less hard on someone in America voting for one of 2 totally imperfect and ungodly parties. I see very little of Christ in the money-loving Caesar-wannabes of any country but especially the most powerful ones, to be frank. Blue or red. They hate more than they love. They serve the elite not the poor. They create unnecessary wars based on greed. They lie and cheat their ways to the top. I like Tony Evan's "Kingdom Independent" perspective. Don't contaminate your faith with either political agenda. If you think either are God's party then your soul is better off if they lose tbh. That goes for all secular political parties. The socialist democrat types (not your ones) here in Ireland behave the most like the Apostles after receiving the Holy Spirit in Acts (contributing according to ability and sharing according to need - Acts 2, 4 & 5) but by trying to justify it without God they abandon the only objective ruler possible and fall into other traps. However, when it comes to creating a society were the Christian "lifestyle" is encouraged rather than one were the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, I'm inclined to vote for them. Anyway, I just go by "give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's" and I beg His forgiveness for the unknown ramifications of voting for anyone or anything but I will endeavour to pray and be guided by the Holy Spirit and the Bible and do my best to pick the lesser of a bunch of evils or abstain if necessary. I certainly won't judge it to be a clear choice though and I think we Christians should not feel pressured to since we live in the world but are not of the world. PS: I apologise if any offense is caused by my having an opinion on your parties. We hear a lot more about you than you do about us and I do know Americans and have visited but I don't assume my opinion is as well informed as yours. Just going by what I've seen from them in public. If the democrat's sin is secularism in the name of freedom, then the republican's sin as "God's party" is blasphemy. But if abortion is the greatest weight on your conscience I can't criticise anyone.
Stealing through taxation, defrauding through debt and inflation are NOT and can NEVER be an example of Christian generosity. If these "generous" lefties gave to the "needy" out of their own pockets - I could admire them. But the left by definition is "generous" to themselves and their supporters with other people's money. Which they extract through fraud, theft and threat of violence. Paul called such people who say "let's do evil in orders to do something good" as wicked and worthy of damnation. Pleas don't delude yourself. Any party that claims "compassion" through the force and violence of the state is in NO WAY practicing Christian virtue. The fact that you and so many Christians are so ignorant of the Bible and politics, and don't see it - I find that very unsettling.
Tim Keller has straddled the "gospel" of humanism and the Gospel of Christ far too long. It's time for him to decide if God is the center of all things or if man is. Then he needs to make that decision clear for all to hear, for the sake of those who have been influenced and for those under his leadership. (James 3:1) "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:8, 9 "For it is time for judgment to begin with God's household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?" 1 Peter 4:17
I don't think he would say that is the goal... but he would rightly say that is a big part of the Goal... we should be making the world a better place!
@@dacoolfruit "And the devil took him up, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, and said to him, "To you I will give all this authority and their glory; for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. If you, then, will worship me, it shall all be yours." Luke 4:-7 Good luck with that. Let us know how you make out.
@@CSUnger this has nothing to do with making the world a better place... It is a good thing Jesus did not bow down to.worship the devil... because the world would not be a better place as a result. Jesus did triumph on the cross trampling down death by death, and that is what gives a foundation to join him in making the world a better place. What would you suggest is the alternative mission of the Christian? To make the world a worse place? Or to leave it as it is? Certainly you don't throw out all the teachings of Christ and the apostles of how we are called to love each other, care for the poor, speak truth and bring hope to the world. That is what I would call making the world a better place... wouldn't you ageee?
@@dacoolfruit No, Carol. It sounds so right "to make the world a better place" but that is the path to irrelevancy and fruitlessness. Look at the Salvation Army as the prime example of our day. They are "making the world a better place" if any Christian organization is, but no one - and here is the point - is getting saved. When it began it was a force for salvation but now has become just another social service agency and it's probably only a matter of time before it, too, becomes compromised with the world. Gen. Booth would be horrified at what it has become. This is the end result of what Keller believes. There is no cost to living a good life in this world but there is one of leaving it behind and choosing to not be a part of it. That's the problem with the Christian Church in the West today ...one foot in the world and one foot in Jesus, and so we get neither. As you see, every day we are losing our freedoms and our ability to control our own personal lives so how can we then, "make the world a better place" when we've lost the ability to control our own destinies? No, the task of the Christian church is to be an ALTERNATIVE to the world and to save people OUT of it. "For here we have no lasting city but we seek the city which is to come."
@@CSUnger I think maybe we are using different definitions of the term "world". When I say world, I am speaking of this earth and society and the people made in God's image. This is His world, and his people... who need to know Him. And it can be made better. It seems your use of the world is talking about the world in the sense of a system which is ungodly. So you are right that we need to exit that system. And to call people out of it. But we are still a part of the world in the first sense. Salvation is leaving the evil system, but being transformed into a person who can thrive today, eternal life is knowing God as Jesus says in John 17... that is something we enter into today! And entering into that life will transform our.societies for the better, precisely as the salvation army did and, to a degree, continues to do. Our hope in God is not.for a far off time and place, but available today! God is present here and now and is at work in individuals and in societies, in business, in science, in education.. He is not.far but near. And we can join him. And I think you and I and Tim Keller are all called to the same vision of life in God. And it is something to be excited about!
What if we accept neither side, and instead put our eggs in the Kingdom’s basket, expecting more from ourselves in actions rather than our words? While there is no issue per se with working within political mechanisms to protect the unborn (etc etc), perhaps there’s a third way that we have missed. I’m finished waiting for politicians to fix the world’s problems. It’s not going to happen. That’s why Jesus said give to Caesar what is Caesar’s. I am concerned with hope misplaced among the people these days and I am quite sure our individual actions will far outweigh the volume of treasures laid up in heaven than merely thinking rightly and voting rightly likely ever will.
His point is-political views don’t determine a person’s salvation, Christ does. Their is no condemnation in Christ, everyone will have to give account to Christ. Romans 8:1-2 Romans 14:12-The Law of Liberty
Why quote Lewis? He said he considered MacDonald to be his master … MacDonald, who claimed universalism. And Lewis compiled an entire book of MacDonald quotes! Lewis would have been an evangelical elite. Can Lewis simply deny his association with MacDonald? Why no. Oh ye who love power.
Are prominent evangelicals so enticed by the donations from ”foundations” that they no longer heed Biblical truth or fear their accountability to God Almighty? Or have they just always been false teachers? There is no such thing as social justice. There is only justice. There is no such thing as a social gospel. There is only The Gospel. “'You shall do no injustice in judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor nor defer to the great, but you are to judge your neighbor fairly.” Leviticus 19:15 “You shall not follow the masses in doing evil, nor shall you testify in a dispute so as to turn aside after a multitude in order to pervert justice; nor shall you be partial to a poor man in his dispute.” Exodus 23:2-3 “See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.” Colossians 2:8 “Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.” James 3:1
There are many groups and individuals out there who seek to divide not just the people but also the Church. Many who consider themselves Christians are allowing them to do just that.
A Christian by definition is to be a follower of Christ. Christ said His kingdom was not of this word. So why are we trying to set one up here? My advice is for us to love God and love our neighbors as we love ourselves...look to Jesus’ life for our example on how it’s done. That’s as simple and as complicated as it gets.
Tim Keller is shameless and clearly wrong for his wrong teaching on so many things. He covets praises from the main stream media more than obeys the teaching of Jesus our Lord and God.
The Bible is not an owner’s manual with a set of explicit instructions for every minute issue that you encounter during the course of every day. It would be a lot thicker if it was.
You're a skillful constructor of a fragile strawman, but your argument comparing the defense of Keller (i.e. he claims to reject CT, but you cannot get absolution from claiming that you're not a white supremacist) is spot on regarding woke religion.
Doug, love your work but yer delivery here is that of one reading something written by another. Perhaps put someone behind the camera and just speak naturally, as you do when sermonizing.
Only an unrepentant unregenerate unbeliever can think and talk like this! Only one who has no holy spirit living inside them to guide their soul would put out thoughts like this, Tim Keller is in need of salvation and our prayers to the Lord so that if He wills Tims eternal soul maybe saved from an eternal hell and damnation!
Social Justice is the Social Gospel of our age. Sounding good on its face with it's appeals and Christian terms, it ultimately leads away from the Gospel of Christ and the true Justice of the Triune God.
Matt 7:15-19 :"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits." Tas demonstrated by the mobs in the streets destroying properties and bodies, and the mobs on Twitter destroying reputations and mental well-being the fruit of Social Justice is division, hatred, fear, legalism, cruelty, violence and murder.
If that is what he said that is true. Social justice is social gospel, politics is the world’s gospel.
Romans 12:2
1 John 5:19
My brother loves Tim Keller and espouses him constantly. But lately I've noticed my brother crying over his white guilt. He said when he was in sixth grade, the teacher had this brilliant idea in letting everyone vote for the most popular kid in class. The top two winners were the only white kids in the room. One a very popular outgoing boy and the other my brother a shy smart Christian kid. My now 60 year old brother cried as he said it was his "white privilege! " We other siblings were aghast. It couldn't possibly be the fact he was a nice kid, honest, smart, good to others. But my brother is lost in wokeness and his three classically homeschooled kids graduated from state universities completely woke. They believe they know better than their aunts and uncles. So here we are. The motto on the side of the barn has been repainted.
Forced charity is not charity.
Forced charity robs people of their money and their opportunity to be generous. It's doubly wicked.
The Old Testament *commands* owners of crops to leave certain parts of their produce unharvested so that the needy would have food. Perhaps you’d say that by definition any command to provide for the poor is not charity, but this would, it seems to me, be forgetting that all of the crops belong to God and thus the unharvested crops are at the least God’s act of benevolence/charity, even if you’d deny that it’s an act of charity by the human steward. At any rate, it’s forced and it’s for the benefit of the needy. Whether we call it charity or not isn’t really the issue. Grace and peace to you!
@@jeffryblair6816
Hey brother, good point, however I don't think being obedient to God is the same as being forced by armed men. Even doing it out if duty to God is hypocrisy if your heart isn't in it. Romans 13:9 the commandments are summed up in this word, you shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Having a personal relationship with God to be led to help is the point.
@Casus Belli Yes, it's true that, for instance, Ruth went out in the morning to glean in the field behind Boaz's harvest crew. They didn't gather, bundle, and deliver the finished product to the doorstep of the two widows. To bridge the gap between the ancient text and our modern context is, however, a necessary part of responsible biblical interpretation. So, we'd need to think a bit more about what such provision for the poor looks like in our current economic arrangement. Obviously we can't expect a widow in the Bronx to walk to Iowa to pick corn. I realize that's silly, but you get the point. This is a very difficult issue. We live in a behemoth of a society, and no problems of any consequence will find perfect solutions. Blessings to you!
As Pastor Rodger Jimenez says “God is not a Republican, but the Devil is a Democrat”
Aha! I've been listening to Keller this year and a lot of what he said was so good...but there were occasionally little things that were a bit adrift. Then a Christian I respect said he didn't like Keller but didn't say why. So somehow (? God's providence) I started hearing all kinds of things about social justice and was compelled to get an understanding of it. Oh my. Humanism, world view clashing violently with the Christian world view! Traced back to Keller. There you go...a wolf in sheep's clothing. A lie wrapped up in a pretty package. Thanks for this and praise God, His truth prevails!
His social justice teachings nearly tore apart our church. The diaconate ran with it and started partnering with progressive left wing activists, spouting critical race theory, climate justice, racial justice, food justice, housing justice, immigration justice, reconciliation, and reparations. They actually believed that acts of mercy are the chief way of preaching the Gospel. Works are not the Gospel! They are the fruit of our salvation. Sharing what Jesus did for us is the Gospel.
They aligned with godless, marxist rebels to change “oppressive systems”, never spoke of Jesus, were concerned with temporal needs, but claimed they were “doing justice” and being salt and light. They referred to Keller’s book Generous Justice and the training they took from Redeemer. It’s called City to City. When some of us read his book, we saw it was eisegesis, not exegesis. Deceptive and dangerous dogma. His City to City manual was reminiscent of ACORN - left wing community organizing but with a fake veneer of Christianity. It was not biblical justice. Biblical justice is blind, it holds no partiality. Social justice requires a victim and a perpetrator. It looks to govt for salvation, not to Jesus. Sin, hell, salvation, redemption, transformation, forgiveness, repentance - nowhere to be found. We razed the Diaconate and started new, but so many younger members had been poisoned by their ideology. We are still recovering. Run from his teachings!
@@DepDawg I'm so sorry that happened. May God restore all that was damaged. May the purity of the gospel abound. May our triune God be glorified.
@@blairwillis9199 amen 🙏🏼 Thank you so much.
@@DepDawgwell said
Keller's mendacity fits nicely with his upper east side congregation. He's telling them what they want to hear.
you do know he is retired right?
@@Superb-Owl-615 Better yet, he's no longer with us....
@@christalone71 Do you think Keller was a false teacher (wolf in sheep's clothing) or a Christian preacher with some mistakes in his theology?
@@ag7075 I do not know for sure, but if he ever believed the gospel, he went off the rails decades ago, being influenced by all the leftists in NYC and brought many false teachings into his ministry and to the Christian church at large. Was he saved? Only the Lord truly knows.
I've heard and read many people who claim Keller helped them immensely at some point in their Christian journey and I suppose I could make the same claim, but now I believe that if I had the same discerning mind as I do now, I would have easily seen that his work has always been rife with error, ranging from subtle to major in certain areas. And now knowing his biography back to the 70's it's much easier to understand what he's really been saying all along. His recent social justice seismic shift is not recent at all; he's always been there, waiting for the right opportunities to expose what is now a rather large following, based on people's misunderstanding him as an exquisitely insightful, reformed theologian, to the error of just another social gospel rooted in his deeply flawed understanding of true justice. I couldn't recommend any of his work in good conscience.
Well said.
you're freakin crazy
Well said 100%
How lovely of you to arrogate Christ's role at the Judgment Seat. TH-cam has a hundred hours or more of Keller's preaching the Word, and doing it faithfully. The fact that he's recognized how appalling the American Protestant churches' response to the poor has historically been speaks only well of him.
@@bobtaylor170 I did not pronounce any judgment on him. You can read my comment again to see that. I think you will have a hard time proving out that American protestant churches have had a worse response to the poor compared to ...(fill in the blank with any country/denomination category). Is there always room for improvement? Yes. Part of the issue is that in a country that has experienced so much prosperity, it's hard to see abject poverty present and one might think there's not as much of a need. So many of those funds go oversees and the numbers prove it: American Christians are the most generous of any group of people in the world with at least their money. I've been to the 3rd world and have seen true poverty firsthand and that's where I focus about half of my charitable funds as the aid is given in conjunction with the Gospel being presented. Christian charity and the Gospel must go hand in hand. And I am saying this as a kid who grew up in a poor (the American definition of it), broken, drug-ridden home. Keller has said this: because you have a responsibility to give to the poor, the poor of have claim to some of what you have. This would lend itself to the idea that Keller is for redistributive schemes. I have not heard him say it specifically but as much as he's talked about it, I would tend to believe he is for it. He's spoken very highly of socialist believers in Scotland as well. Of course these are political socialists and not the sort that we see in Acts where people were voluntarily sharing all things in common. God calls us to have a generous heart to the poor as He as been generous to us, those who are poor in spirit, but absolutely nowhere is the idea that the poor have a right to something that belongs to someone else presented in the Bible.
Dang good stuff, pointing out how the Tim Keller's in evangelicalism unequally apply even their own standards really does bring a lot of clarity. Thanks!
Yes, it's a hypocritical double standard.
Well said, as always Pastor Doug.
Tim Keller has always been a social justice warrior. He is a good words craftsman who twists Scripture to fit his narrative of the Social Justice Gospel.
Well, he is picking up on something missed in our culture, the coporate nature of sin. If you read his article carefully he is not just blindly adopting progressive positions. quarterly.gospelinlife.com/the-sin-of-racism/
@@lierox9 Ezekiel 18- each person will be held accountable for his/her sins. Not responsible for what others do. Sorry, I totally disagree with him. The Lord will hold everyone individually accountable to what that person does.
@@wandacorley1 That's a good point. But how do we reconcile that with Daniel 9, Daniel realises that open shame belongs to him and his people, "we have sinned against you, we have rebelled against him, we have not listened to your servants the prophets". This group identity with sin, is actually key for Jesus to represent us on the cross. He, as a human, can pay for our sin, because he is our group representative in our sin.
Let's say Hitler's son was a christian. Would natural compassion not urge him to have a special love for the Jews, because of the sins of his father? Or would he become a Christian and just carry on like normal. His family impacts how his faith plays out. As it did for Daniel, and Tim Keller argues, as it should for us in some way.
@@lierox9 If we go by that logic, then black people are guilty of racism by proxy too. Not only were the tribal leaders slave owners but also slave traders. There has been slavery since the beginning of time. It’s not unique. If that’s the case, then every ethnic group should be held responsible for their implicit guilt. Jesus never made mention of corporate guilt. We are one body, one race irregardless of skin color. Every ethnic group has something to be ashamed of in its past etc. the Body of Christ does not operate like the nation of Israel. My shame is my sin against a Holy God (Psalm 51). We are all equal in that we all have sinned, in that we are also image bearers of God. But all need to repent and place faith in Christ for forgiveness of sin.
Excellent analysis of TKs statements.
Vance Havner, in his essay "Gamaliel the Appeaser," includes an unattributed quote about Desiderius Erasmus that could well apply to Tim Keller and those of his ilk, who pride themselves on their "nuanced" views:
He [Luther] dwells on the ingenious carefulness of Erasmus to avoid decisive utterance, attempting always to shade down his Yes till it is almost a No, and to burnish up his No until it might almost pass for a Yes. Erasmus is a Proteus! He is an eel... In the debate...people of academic culture, of speculative disengagement and serene intellectual indifference, sided with Erasmus. The Moderates throughout Europe, the gentlemen of courts, the semi-skeptical intelligences of the universities, told the golden-mouthed apostle of compromise that he was in the right... The heart of Christianity beat with Luther instead.
I suspect that Tim Keller has always held his cultural Marxist views, but remained quiet until Evangelicalism moved far enough leftward that he felt safe in coming out of the closet. We're warned against such people in Jude 4:
"For there are certain men crept in unawares..."
I'm reminded of the late Pastor Perry F. Rockwood's comment that in Evangelicalism the emphasis is always on the word "jelly."
And Matt 7:15-19
I find it kindof funny that, despite this, Erasmus was probably right. Even in this day and age the reformation of the Catholic Church would be an infinitely better and more possible solution than it’s elimination, and far more tolerable to Christ’s priestly prayer than permanent schism.
@@jonmkl You couldn't be more wrong.
@@matthewdyer2926
I bet I could, if I tried ;-)
Especially considering that after 500 years the Catholic Church still dwarfs all of the others. Seems hard to eliminate.
On the caring for the poor, Christ talked about giving to the poor so your left hand wouldn't know what the right was doing.
How that could happen when it was forced upon you by the government (or on the people who actually pay taxes) is an argument I'd quite like to hear.
If I can’t vote for Trump in good conscience then I’ll vote third party or write in. I won’t vote for a Democrat. Ever.
@AdamWayneone Are you trolling or serious? He said IF he couldn't...
A vote for a third party is a vote for the Dems.
@@laurieshouse Technically it's a vote for the third party...
Et tu, Brute? SMH. Yet another person I respected has fallen. So few are standing strong against this BS.
Since I was saved 15 years ago, I've wondered why American Christianity is not like Biblical Christianity. This is why. Our leaders have been in love with the world and have given us over to the party that seeks to ban Christianity.
I feel the same. Some Keller sermons had a huge impact on my life. And now this...
I gotta say that his statements in homosexuality years ago should have been red flags.
*BS* ? Barbecued Squirrel??
@@myjesusisall3192 -- Bovine Scatology
Yes, didn't vote for Trump in 2016, but did in 2020. I think there were a lot of people like that.
Tim's thumb is on the scales and his finger is in the wind to see which way his theology should go. Another AWOL Christian soldier!
"Since when did violence become charity?"
"Folk's This Ain't Normal" - Joel Salatin
💯
I think DW & TK should have a sit down to discuss this. Who’s with me?
Only if Keller wears a sweater vest...
At 4:35, "A vote for Biden is not necessarily a vote for unrestricted abortion"
Serious question here. How would a vote for Biden not absolutely be a vote for unrestricted abortion?
A vote for any Democrat is a vote for unrestricted abortion. It's been a plank of the platform for as long as I have been alive at least.
I think it is a vote for that.
What amazes me is how many of the respondents seem to allow their politics to shape their theology!
Excellent commentary. Spot on, thank you Doug.
Tim Keller preaches the gospel soundly, when pressed. There was a particular demographic that seemed to be head-over-heals about Redeemer Church when it picked up steam. When a church plant opened in a convenient vicinity, people left their local Presbyterian churches for something they considered to be a new beacon for conservative theology and liberal social politics. You can imagine how many young professionals, academics, and graduate students poured into these churches. Even name-dropping Tim Keller's name as a contact gave young pastors credibility.
Me, I think Pastor Keller beats around the bush, and he wants to embrace a particular Christian mindset that you are okay to partake fully in the world as long as your Christian principles stay intact. It's a high-wire act. The world is stronger than us, and even good pastors fall into its soothing grasp. When a ministry is supported by a particular political and economic demographic, it is easy to say that the ministry is reaching out to them. It can also easily coddle and enable the particular values of that demographic. I feel Pastor Keller softens the gospel to speak to the demographics of his congregation, and it has almost become his signature sermon and speaking style.
So awesome!!!❤
Excellent. You got me, subscribed. Keller is wobbly, perhaps because his target audience, potential customers are NY lefties. It’s hard not to do whatever one needs to do to be seen as cool by them. Perhaps it’s irresistible.
“Kellerites will think you’re a racist” man we need so much more grace for one another in the Body.
Good point. Name calling isn't helpful.
He has gone off the rails several years ago.
Yup, so many accusing their brethren of being racists because they won’t bow down to cultural fads and agendas, it’s reprehensible.
Pastor Wilson is the best.
Y’all didn’t come down hard enough on Keller: more than just thumbs on scales.
I can’t say I’m all that surprised. He has used Theistic Evolution since before The Reason for God (and within it) as a rationale to the left to that it’s okay to think exactly what you think on that without challenge. Maybe it is well reasoned and even well intentioned. I’ll even go as far as to give grace and say maybe he’s right, but it always seemed to me it was more appeasement to a contrary worldview he somewhat shared. Now it appears that pattern expanding to other topics.
Excellently put, as a fan of Keller I really enjoyed that and I think you nailed it.
Spot on! Thank you for the analysis!
Right on point as almost almost always; thank you.
Absolutely excellent commentary!
Thank you for addressing this!
Really appreciate this!
Amazingly well put together. How refreshing.
Good work! Listening from Australia 🇦🇺
Simply, Keller is a lost soul, leading others down the same dark path.
Not your DNA! Not your body! Not your choice!
Brilliant commentary!
I will never vote for anyone who promotes abortion, no matter what party that person belongs to. It may not have abortions listed in the Bible, but as mere human beings we know how horrible this is. It does matter who we support. We will stand before God one day, and give an account of who, and what we supported. Do we really believe God is ok with abortions???
Brilliant!!
Thank you bro! 🇺🇸
1 John 5:7 😇
Outstanding!
I’ve lost track of Keller over the past 5 years. This is really depressing to hear.
Indeed. I've come to see Keller like "Captain Conundrum", (The Sphinx) from Mystery Men...
Matt 7:15-19 :"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits." As demonstrated by the mobs in the streets destroying properties and bodies, and the mobs on Twitter destroying reputations and mental well-being the fruit of Social Justice is division, hatred, fear, legalism, cruelty, violence and murder. Those who love their Freedom in Christ must reject even the appearance of the evil of the false gospel of Social Justice.
Interesting. It has been years since our church did small groups based on a Keller book. We never did one of bis books again. In our small group, it became evident the book was a mix of solid biblical insight and occasional tomfoolery.
I’m throwing away all my T Keller books. Killing a baby is killing a baby....what does have to do with politics?
Obama had a similar comment as Keller for business owners… “You didn’t build that!”
I was on the diaconate of an ARP congregation about 10 years ago, and the pastor asked us to read Keller's Generous Justice. Because I was raised in an ELCA congregation, I can smell liberal tripe a mile off. As I was reading Generous Justice, it instantly raised numerous red flags for me, and my conclusion was that Keller was a wolf in sheep's clothing. We left that congregation shortly thereafter because I did not want my young (at the time) sons to hear Keller quoted (in a favorable light) from the pulpit, as the pastor often did. Keller offered the proverbial "milk with some poison in it" IMO.
Good old bait and switch by Mr. Keller.
They aren't even in power yet, but the signs aren't good. Beginning the year praying And dare I ask, oh Lord, peace even in this chamber now and evermore, We ask it in the name of the monotheistic god, Brahma, and God known by many names by many different faiths. Amen and awoman.
Is this what Tim had in mind?
I don’t think Keller’s quotes are in conflict. One is his personal opinion on a specific issue and one is a very general stance as he advocates for tolerance of other Christians political decisions as they correspond to their personal convictions. If you take the quotes together it’s more like he’s saying “although I believe this about privilege, it is acceptable for other Christians to have a different stance”.
what an ending!
Sad to see him and Tripp become so strange.
Without knowing the heart of those who perpetrate these equivocations, it seems as if certain Evangelical leaders abhor the thought of being culturally irrelevant.
EvanJELLYcal. BAAAHAHA!! love it.
I took Tim's Tweet not as permission to vote Democratic (or Republican for that matter) but to caution every Christian not to implore a vote this way or that way because of their Christian faith. I think to suggest Keller's Tweet as a permission to vote for Biden is a stretch. Keller is advocating liberty of conscience rather than a faith-based coercion. Hence, the statement, "you cannot say (to another Christian) you must vote for this person or against that person if you are a Christian." That is not permission to vote Demo or Republican, but rather it implores all Christians not to impose their particular convictions on another Christian when it comes to the vote.
I took this liberty very seriously and did not vote for either Trump or Biden. Nor did I impose my convictions on anyone else with any qualifications of what a Christian vote must be. I did encourage others not to vote for Trump or Biden, but I didn't demand it either. I think that is what Keller's Tweet was all about.
He’s also mixing an effect and cause in his left statement.
Now that both have passed it is appropriate to say: What Tim Keller has done here is every bit as sinful as what Ravi Zacharias did.
Amen
Wow, i dont follow Keller and I had not heard his push on "systemic racism" what a loon
I am disheartened to hear that Tim Keller has given counsel in this way.
Keller and John Piper are good friends and yet I believe they'd differ in the advice they'd give on this matter. It does seem to me that Keller has 'sold out' in order to make his views seem 'less extreme' to the sophisticated of New York, his main audience. In an article entitled, "Why a Woman Shouldn't Run for Vice President, but Wise People May Still Vote for Her" here, www.desiringgod.org/articles/why-a-woman-shouldnt-run-for-vice-president-but-wise-people-may-still-vote-for-her, Piper makes the following statement, "In my view, defending abortion is far worse sin for a man than serving as Vice President is for a woman." It is not my goal to discuss women in leadership, but discernment in voting responsibility.
I think a title along the same lines discussing a choice for the 2020 presidency would be, *"Why a Loud Mouthed, Boastful, Pride-filled, Adulterous Man Shouldn't Run for President but Wise People SHOULD Still Vote for Him."*
If you've read this far, you may wish to go here for more,
www.desiringgod.org/articles/vote-like-no-one-else-will
Are you sure you're not talking about Ron Sider?
Keller ignores original guilt in such manipulation
Wow, that was really good.
I've been a Tim Keller fan for years. I still think that most of what he says in good. But that he'd be ok to vote for a party that has no - literally no qualm regarding abortion is too much. I'd have preferred he just said that he wouldn't advise anyone on how to vote.
For an example of no qualm democrats on abortion see this, th-cam.com/video/Wy5Pp6eU9Fo/w-d-xo.html
A well thought out lucid argument
I've always thought Keller was a bit over-rated, like the PCA's version of Max Lucado.
Keller has been completely exposed as a snake and a false teacher. Unbelievable.
Serious error yes, but I wouldn’t go that far and brother I’d be careful with that language “for the judgement you use against him, you too will be judged”. If you are absolutely confident he is a snake and deceiver, then fair enough, but if not I’d be more careful
Philip He's given the bride of Christ over to the Democrat Party and the pagan left that seeks to ban Christianity. Can you name one redeeming thing about the Democrat Party? Just one?
@@philpopper8879 Sorry, but promoting guilt on the basis of skin color and making my son's the target of ever increasing violence is evil. Tim is using the name of Jesus to promote a Marxist ideology. A pox be on him.
Tim Keller and the people like him, making sure that they let you know how The Lord’s teachings are needing an update for the current trends of society. Total. Garbage.
I enjoyed this and am in full agreement with Mr. Wilson. I do, however, have to critique that it seems like Doug is jumping the gun on claiming that Keller's statement was in order to alleviate backlash for voting for Biden, for himself or others. I didn't take it as that. I saw it as a generic response to voting in a time where voting is being talked about a lot.
Yeah, I saw this with Russell Moore blatantly and I noticed this about Tim Keller subtly. The way he would talk about the Gospel on universities and in other non-Christian settings way squishy. Also the way the TGC started to talk about LGBTQ issues.
It is either the height of naïveté or a shameless attempt to undermine Truth that would lead Mr. Keller to say voting for Biden could simply mean 'supporting equity' or 'voting against poverty!' I prefer to believe it's the former, but either way the consequences of such thinking are terrible.
An absolute layman here.
It appears that God is continually on the side of the downtrodden and against the oppressor. There are many warnings in the bible against the oppression of the widow and the orphan.
It seems however that when God's people had fallen to their absolute lowest, they sacrificed their children.
Some examples, Lev. 20;2; Deut. 12;31; 2 Ki. 16;3; 17;31; 23;10; Jer. 7;30-32; 19;3-5; Ezek. 16;20-21
If you want to be quoted in the NY Times as a respectable representative of "religious people", well, you have to know what to say.
I wasn't Christian when I voted to legalise abortion in my country and I'm not sure I would now but I didn't approve of abortion at the time (as in I'd never have chosen one or had sex with a girl who would).
I did note the statistics that show that people who have the freedom to abort or access higher support (and less social judgement) as a parent did choose to have less abortions than in right wing countries where it was banned, which I think is telling, so I voted for more compassion and less abortions that were safely (for the woman) carried out.
I was also aware that God (who I was beginning to believe in at the time but very vaguely - I knew that truth/love was responding to my desperate search in ways that had to be a conscious supernatural entity but it was early days) gave us the freedom to sin and that our manmade laws were not going to be in the equation when He judges us all personally. However, now that I am Christian... this does bother me. I'm not sure whether He will allow me any credit for my smart way of figuring out what now appears to be a lot less of a grey area. I know Christ's blood washes me clean but it still weighs heavy. I think I would have to vote no now even though stats say more people would do the right thing but God didn't put me in charge of their choices and it's not like they'll be forced to, especially not if they reach out to God for help. I made it easier for some who wouldn't have done it otherwise though... That WAS my choice.
However, I would be less hard on someone in America voting for one of 2 totally imperfect and ungodly parties. I see very little of Christ in the money-loving Caesar-wannabes of any country but especially the most powerful ones, to be frank. Blue or red. They hate more than they love. They serve the elite not the poor. They create unnecessary wars based on greed. They lie and cheat their ways to the top.
I like Tony Evan's "Kingdom Independent" perspective. Don't contaminate your faith with either political agenda. If you think either are God's party then your soul is better off if they lose tbh. That goes for all secular political parties. The socialist democrat types (not your ones) here in Ireland behave the most like the Apostles after receiving the Holy Spirit in Acts (contributing according to ability and sharing according to need - Acts 2, 4 & 5) but by trying to justify it without God they abandon the only objective ruler possible and fall into other traps. However, when it comes to creating a society were the Christian "lifestyle" is encouraged rather than one were the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, I'm inclined to vote for them.
Anyway, I just go by "give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's" and I beg His forgiveness for the unknown ramifications of voting for anyone or anything but I will endeavour to pray and be guided by the Holy Spirit and the Bible and do my best to pick the lesser of a bunch of evils or abstain if necessary.
I certainly won't judge it to be a clear choice though and I think we Christians should not feel pressured to since we live in the world but are not of the world.
PS: I apologise if any offense is caused by my having an opinion on your parties. We hear a lot more about you than you do about us and I do know Americans and have visited but I don't assume my opinion is as well informed as yours. Just going by what I've seen from them in public. If the democrat's sin is secularism in the name of freedom, then the republican's sin as "God's party" is blasphemy. But if abortion is the greatest weight on your conscience I can't criticise anyone.
Stealing through taxation, defrauding through debt and inflation are NOT and can NEVER be an example of Christian generosity. If these "generous" lefties gave to the "needy" out of their own pockets - I could admire them. But the left by definition is "generous" to themselves and their supporters with other people's money. Which they extract through fraud, theft and threat of violence. Paul called such people who say "let's do evil in orders to do something good" as wicked and worthy of damnation.
Pleas don't delude yourself. Any party that claims "compassion" through the force and violence of the state is in NO WAY practicing Christian virtue. The fact that you and so many Christians are so ignorant of the Bible and politics, and don't see it - I find that very unsettling.
Tim Keller has straddled the "gospel" of humanism and the Gospel of Christ far too long. It's time for him to decide if God is the center of all things or if man is. Then he needs to make that decision clear for all to hear, for the sake of those who have been influenced and for those under his leadership. (James 3:1)
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:8, 9
"For it is time for judgment to begin with God's household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?" 1 Peter 4:17
Tim Keller seems to think that the goal of Christianity is to make the world a better place.
I don't think he would say that is the goal... but he would rightly say that is a big part of the Goal... we should be making the world a better place!
@@dacoolfruit "And the devil took him up, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time,
and said to him, "To you I will give all this authority and their glory; for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will.
If you, then, will worship me, it shall all be yours." Luke 4:-7 Good luck with that. Let us know how you make out.
@@CSUnger this has nothing to do with making the world a better place... It is a good thing Jesus did not bow down to.worship the devil... because the world would not be a better place as a result. Jesus did triumph on the cross trampling down death by death, and that is what gives a foundation to join him in making the world a better place. What would you suggest is the alternative mission of the Christian? To make the world a worse place? Or to leave it as it is? Certainly you don't throw out all the teachings of Christ and the apostles of how we are called to love each other, care for the poor, speak truth and bring hope to the world. That is what I would call making the world a better place... wouldn't you ageee?
@@dacoolfruit No, Carol. It sounds so right "to make the world a better place" but that is the path to irrelevancy and fruitlessness. Look at the Salvation Army as the prime example of our day. They are "making the world a better place" if any Christian organization is, but no one - and here is the point - is getting saved. When it began it was a force for salvation but now has become just another social service agency and it's probably only a matter of time before it, too, becomes compromised with the world. Gen. Booth would be horrified at what it has become. This is the end result of what Keller believes. There is no cost to living a good life in this world but there is one of leaving it behind and choosing to not be a part of it. That's the problem with the Christian Church in the West today ...one foot in the world and one foot in Jesus, and so we get neither. As you see, every day we are losing our freedoms and our ability to control our own personal lives so how can we then, "make the world a better place" when we've lost the ability to control our own destinies?
No, the task of the Christian church is to be an ALTERNATIVE to the world and to save people OUT of it.
"For here we have no lasting city but we seek the city which is to come."
@@CSUnger I think maybe we are using different definitions of the term "world". When I say world, I am speaking of this earth and society and the people made in God's image. This is His world, and his people... who need to know Him. And it can be made better. It seems your use of the world is talking about the world in the sense of a system which is ungodly. So you are right that we need to exit that system. And to call people out of it. But we are still a part of the world in the first sense. Salvation is leaving the evil system, but being transformed into a person who can thrive today, eternal life is knowing God as Jesus says in John 17... that is something we enter into today! And entering into that life will transform our.societies for the better, precisely as the salvation army did and, to a degree, continues to do. Our hope in God is not.for a far off time and place, but available today! God is present here and now and is at work in individuals and in societies, in business, in science, in education..
He is not.far but near. And we can join him. And I think you and I and Tim Keller are all called to the same vision of life in God. And it is something to be excited about!
What if we accept neither side, and instead put our eggs in the Kingdom’s basket, expecting more from ourselves in actions rather than our words? While there is no issue per se with working within political mechanisms to protect the unborn (etc etc), perhaps there’s a third way that we have missed. I’m finished waiting for politicians to fix the world’s problems. It’s not going to happen. That’s why Jesus said give to Caesar what is Caesar’s. I am concerned with hope misplaced among the people these days and I am quite sure our individual actions will far outweigh the volume of treasures laid up in heaven than merely thinking rightly and voting rightly likely ever will.
His point is-political views don’t determine a person’s salvation, Christ does. Their is no condemnation in Christ, everyone will have to give account to Christ.
Romans 8:1-2
Romans 14:12-The Law of Liberty
Politics reveal where you place your hope though, if your gospel is worldly social justice on the world's terms, your kingdom isn't heaven.
It was over for me when he posted a Vaccine Card! Just got vaxxed- doing my bit👹👹👹😷😷💉💉🤷♂️
Why quote Lewis? He said he considered MacDonald to be his master … MacDonald, who claimed universalism. And Lewis compiled an entire book of MacDonald quotes! Lewis would have been an evangelical elite. Can Lewis simply deny his association with MacDonald? Why no. Oh ye who love power.
He sounds like a Cultural Marxist.
This is the "white skin" quote referenced by Doug: th-cam.com/video/qiXDvQzIS1c/w-d-xo.html
When I think of Tim Keller, I throw up a little in my mouth.
Are prominent evangelicals so enticed by the donations from ”foundations” that they no longer heed Biblical truth or fear their accountability to God Almighty?
Or have they just always been false teachers?
There is no such thing as social justice. There is only justice.
There is no such thing as a social gospel.
There is only The Gospel.
“'You shall do no injustice in judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor nor defer to the great, but you are to judge your neighbor fairly.” Leviticus 19:15
“You shall not follow the masses in doing evil, nor shall you testify in a dispute so as to turn aside after a multitude in order to pervert justice; nor shall you be partial to a poor man in his dispute.” Exodus 23:2-3
“See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.” Colossians 2:8
“Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.” James 3:1
You could use the first three verses quoted to vote either way!
There are many groups and individuals out there who seek to divide not just the people but also the Church. Many who consider themselves Christians are allowing them to do just that.
i used to listen to Tim K. then his far left ran over my foot.
A Christian by definition is to be a follower of Christ.
Christ said His kingdom was not of this word. So why are we trying to set one up here?
My advice is for us to love God and love our neighbors as we love ourselves...look to Jesus’ life for our example on how it’s done.
That’s as simple and as complicated as it gets.
Another chameleon "Christian" that accommodates to the winds of the times. Shameful and pathetic!
Question for the comments section: is voting Democrat a sin?
Tim Keller is shameless and clearly wrong for his wrong teaching on so many things. He covets praises from the main stream media more than obeys the teaching of Jesus our Lord and God.
The Bible is not an owner’s manual with a set of explicit instructions for every minute issue that you encounter during the course of every day. It would be a lot thicker if it was.
Keller is completely wrong and is equivocating
I think Tim Keller is a great preacher. Period.
You think it’s great he preaches people are inherently racist because the colour of their skin?
You're a skillful constructor of a fragile strawman, but your argument comparing the defense of Keller (i.e. he claims to reject CT, but you cannot get absolution from claiming that you're not a white supremacist) is spot on regarding woke religion.
Doug, love your work but yer delivery here is that of one reading something written by another.
Perhaps put someone behind the camera and just speak naturally, as you do when sermonizing.
Only an unrepentant unregenerate unbeliever can think and talk like this! Only one who has no holy spirit living inside them to guide their soul would put out thoughts like this, Tim Keller is in need of salvation and our prayers to the Lord so that if He wills Tims eternal soul maybe saved from an eternal hell and damnation!
Tim's a jesuit!!!!!
That's silly.
Cmon Timmy do better lol