I'm not a pro but know enough that pressed wood is a really bad underlay, and worst in bathroom. You have a good base of plywood, why not adding another layer of plywood ?. a few splash of water and you end up with a sponge underlay that will develop mold. Just replace with Plywood and you have a very good guide to all DIYer
Plywood has voids in it and can cause hole from high heels, and so on. The reason for underlayment is to raise floor up to match tile or carpet and a very smooth surface. However particleboard does suck up water if flooded.
great video! i need to raise a room 1/2 inch. chose to use cheaper underlayment-$21 a sheet versus $37 for the cheapest plywood. also- the worker at store told me to also use liquid nails and screw it down. after watching your video- i'm going with the ring nails and no glue. much appreciated!!
With a thicker product you could screw it down for sure ,but keep the screw heads counter sunk a bit and then fill them when you float the floor. On thin materials like I'm using here (5/16") its pretty hard to counter sink a screw into it without going right through .
As always read the manufacturer recommendation for your particular product. I came here looking for advice for enstron underlay install, and while everything is solid which I'll be using, enstron says do not use a divergent staple of any kind.
Thank you for the great video. Question, is there a need to have a wood underlayment such as the one you are showing here if the subfloor is level enough for vinyl flooring? Thanks.
Thanks for the video! It looks like your using a Bostitch stapler. If the divergent staples are not available, is there another style recommended for 1/2" underlayment over 2x6 decking? Thanks
This is an excellent video. I'm a first-time DIYer. I have plywood subfloors and want to install glue down bamboo flooring. Should I install underlayment on top of the subfloor and then glue the bamboo to the underlayment?
@@HouseImprovements it’s a house with subfloor planks on the joists. I am planning to add a 3/8 plywood on top to resurface the floor prior to installing engineer flooring (staple down). Would you recommend I install the plywood sheets on the subfloor planks with foam adhesive or just screw down
I'm forced to install a 1/2" OSB as the subfloor (to clear an ABS pipe on the ground) on a 2x3 raised floor over concrete. Then I will install 3/4" plywood on top of that. Which fasteners for each floor?
Can I use something a little harder for the underlayment, like plywood? The press board seams to lift the vinyl when sitting on a PC chair for a while and rolling back and forth.
You could use sanded plywood but not sure that is your issue. I would place a floor protector in the chair area (clear plastic panel) to keep the wheels off the floor. The movement is releasing the glue.
No, not with carpenter glue for sure . Maybe v notched trowel applying construction adhesive but it would be a real PITA to remove down the road. The ring nails or staples work great
@@HouseImprovements The problem is i got a floor heating so that is why i thought may be i use glue and other thing is how did you level your floor is it after you install new underpayment ??? My sub floor is not level should i level it first level it with quick leveler than I install the new underlay or after i install the new underlay . My aim is to install new under lay than Schulter Ditra and 24x24 tile but the other problem is the floor is not level by the way what this wood calls the one you use would i be able to use it for tile thx
Thank you for a great video! I have a question if you don’t mind. I had some foundation work done. The company that did it took a couple of subfloor pannels and replace them very poorly. Everything seems to be level but there are gaps of around 1/2 inch or more between old subfloor and the replacement. They were planning on filling the gaps with foam. Would you recommend doing that and then put an underlayment on top or would it be better to replace the new planks so they fit properly? Thank you!!
Sir : do you have a video showing the preparation for tilling? Also: I thought that I was suppose to put a kind ok foam (approximately 1/8” thickness) against my walls and the plywood/press boards...? Thank you . I must say that I like the “calmness” of your videos. Thanks again
Particle board void the warranty for vinyl. The manufacturer wants you to use a plywood that is rated for underlayment...and yes you do have to prep the board seams so they don’t show through the vinyl
If I use a 5mm underlay can I use a wood glue product to secure it to the subfloor? I'd like to avoid the staples and nails. I'll just brad nail the corners and use a little wood glue. Thoughts?
if the subfloor is smooth and a proper product that you can cover with vinyl sheet flooring. Our forum is a great place to go when you have questions.www.house-improvements.com/forums/
my house was built in 56 so my subfloor is planks on joist. I'm laying 1/2'' plywood over that. can you tell me the gap I should leave between plywood and drywall, and gap between sheets? also what spacing should I use when fastening it down? thank you
thanks for your videos. Question. I have a floor (laundry area) on the main-floor-area that is not leveled when at the wall, so it feels like a bow when approaching to the center of the small room. How could I level it before I place new floor? thanks!
Hi Cannon, I have vinyl flooring in the bathroom and I want to replace with the tiles. I believe underneath is plywood flooring and do i have to install any underlayment prior to apply the cement? If it does requires then please tell me what type of underlayment. Thanks
I hear some people add glue when installing particle board on top of plywood subfloor. Is this needed or just a preference?I am installing laminate in in Kitchen living room and dining room and need to replace particle board in kitchen area.
Would you ever use a floor leveling product before you install the underlayment so as to make the subfloor more even if there are low areas? Also, do you ever paint/coat the underlayment so as to make it more moisture resistant? Thank you for all these videos. Why are the best ones from CA? (You and Theoldkid888)
Use the floor leveller on the top of the underlayment. I have never painted or treated the underlayment, I suppose you could as long as it did not cause problems with your glue.
NEVER ever use self leveling cement on particle board or mdf. Some even say not even to use it on OSB. Self leveling compound/cement is best used on plywood after your subfloor is to the correct thickness to support the finished flooring you're laying.
If it is not to out of level it should but if you really need to correct quite a bit then you may need to look into self leveling cement patch and go thicker than the skim coat the Shannon used here ! If it is really really out of wack then you may need a couple of applications ! If you really want Shannon and his team's help then it maybe best to go to his website and click the forum tab ( I think it was near the top left of the page ) and see if your question has already been asked or see if you can ask your question there !
Hi Shannon, I am dealing with a concrete floor at my basement bathroom and the existing flooring is just junk since previous owner laid glue and linoleum directly over the concrete slab. I guess my question is how to do this the right way? I want glued in vinyl flooring and was wondering if I can lay some vapor barrier/retardant first then 1/4" subfloor screwed on and then glue and laminate? Would 1/4" subfloor be sufficient here?
Home depot has 5mm underlayment, in 4x8 sheets. Is that too thin? A floor guy told me the vinyl will bubble through the staple holes if it's not at least 3/8 thick
I watched a professional flooring company use that exact stuff a few years ago in a house that had flooded. Five years and it still looks great and no oddities in the floor.
When laying linoleum, can't you just spread floor leveling compound over the wood subfloor (instead of 3/8" underlayment), so as not to increase floor height when you do not want to remove a sink/vanity?
If the plywood is in good shape and no real gaps between the sheets you may get away with it. The problem is if it flexes much when stepping on it the self leveller may crack and loosen over time. The underlayment helps to span joints in the plywood to reduce the flex.
Shannon, I see you took some flak earlier for the pressed wood. Some people already know it all but still come to TH-cam for instructions... Anyways, could you describe a bit what thought process did go into choosing the underlay material? I'm thinking cement board myself but this will be my first bathroom subfloor. You mentioned vinyl, I'm thinking tile.
The press type board is very very common here for under vinyl so that is what I use. For tiles I use products like Ditra uncoupling membranes. If you come to my forum and ask about subfloor options for under tiles I will answer it better there. www.house-improvements.com/forums/
Yes it will definitely work and be sturdy enough that it won't shift. I like to use 1/4 inch plywood which people sometimes call it "luan" and screw it down with 1-5/8" screws just in case the subfloor was squeaky it won't be anymore!
Typically if you try to screw this product down you are unable to counter sink the heads of the screws enough or if you do the underlay mushrooms up around the screw head and needs sanding.
I can see why you have to cut the underlay in 2 sections, as it would be very difficult to fit the cut into the entirety of bathroom in one go. When determining your dimensions of first piece, is this dependent on your own choice?, or was there thought put into this?. Could you have made the first piece with only the toilet cut out, & kept the register cut out for the 2nd, instead of having it split between the two pieces?. Also how do you know where to end your underlay where the door frame is?.
Great video, If I use staples, do i need to go over them with filler and sand smooth ? What about the joint gap ? will linolium show the gap after a few years ? Thanks !
This is an informative video, but I strongly reccommend not using this type of wood for a sub floor ever, When does a floor not get wet? And this stuff is junk after water gets to it. I would just put 1/4 inch plywood, otherwise great job!
@@HouseImprovements Hello mate, my floor boards has a hairline joint which is open to the subfloor. When I glued vinyl sheet directly to the floor boards without underlay, the vinyl bubbles along the floor board joint. I'm really puzzled. Do you know why.
bad comment, try using a different adjective other than the word bad to start out your comment. Try and be more positive. People are much more receptive that way.
I'm impressed with this man's knowledge and the way he calmly explains things.
Good job, you are a guy who cares about the quality of your job, that's rare these days.
Thank you for sharing your knowledgeable expertise to the rest of us learning.
Shannon, you're the man! got a good laugh at that measure once cut twice
*****
I've noticed that once you cut something too short, no matter how many times more you cut it, it's still too short...
I'm not a pro but know enough that pressed wood is a really bad underlay, and worst in bathroom. You have a good base of plywood, why not adding another layer of plywood ?. a few splash of water and you end up with a sponge underlay that will develop mold.
Just replace with Plywood and you have a very good guide to all DIYer
Plywood has voids in it and can cause hole from high heels, and so on. The reason for underlayment is to raise floor up to match tile or carpet and a very smooth surface. However particleboard does suck up water if flooded.
I agree with you. I think a backboard is better in bathroom if they're going to tile it.
Exactly the video I was looking for. Thanks!
What types of screws do you recommend over nails?
This product is really to thin to screw
great video! i need to raise a room 1/2 inch. chose to use cheaper underlayment-$21 a sheet versus $37 for the cheapest plywood. also- the worker at store told me to also use liquid nails and screw it down. after watching your video- i'm going with the ring nails and no glue. much appreciated!!
With a thicker product you could screw it down for sure ,but keep the screw heads counter sunk a bit and then fill them when you float the floor. On thin materials like I'm using here (5/16") its pretty hard to counter sink a screw into it without going right through .
@@HouseImprovements great! thanks!
@@HouseImprovements are panel board nails "ring shank" the proper nails? i couldn't find any called just "ring nails".
As always read the manufacturer recommendation for your particular product. I came here looking for advice for enstron underlay install, and while everything is solid which I'll be using, enstron says do not use a divergent staple of any kind.
A wealth of information and at the right time, thanks Shannon.....
Thank you for the great video. Question, is there a need to have a wood underlayment such as the one you are showing here if the subfloor is level enough for vinyl flooring? Thanks.
You need a good smooth surface to lay the flooring on. That is the main reason for a new underlayment.
Thanks for the video! It looks like your using a Bostitch stapler. If the divergent staples are not available, is there another style recommended for 1/2" underlayment over 2x6 decking? Thanks
+Jeff Porter Ring nails unfortunatly, are the next best IMO
Thanks for the instructions. Very helpful. Will 18 gage staples work or do I need 16 or even larger?
This is an excellent video. I'm a first-time DIYer. I have plywood subfloors and want to install glue down bamboo flooring. Should I install underlayment on top of the subfloor and then glue the bamboo to the underlayment?
most glue down wood floors can go right not the plywood. Check the manufactures suggestions.
Do you recommend using spray foam between the subfloor and the plywood. I think they sell special foam for subfloor
There is a sub floor foam adhesive made for the actually plywood installed on the joists.
@@HouseImprovements it’s a house with subfloor planks on the joists. I am planning to add a 3/8 plywood on top to resurface the floor prior to installing engineer flooring (staple down). Would you recommend I install the plywood sheets on the subfloor planks with foam adhesive or just screw down
great stuff sharron......keep up the good work
I'm forced to install a 1/2" OSB as the subfloor (to clear an ABS pipe on the ground) on a 2x3 raised floor over concrete. Then I will install 3/4" plywood on top of that. Which fasteners for each floor?
1-3/4" deck screws would be fine for both.
Can I use something a little harder for the underlayment, like plywood? The press board seams to lift the vinyl when sitting on a PC chair for a while and rolling back and forth.
You could use sanded plywood but not sure that is your issue. I would place a floor protector in the chair area (clear plastic panel) to keep the wheels off the floor. The movement is releasing the glue.
no nails in floors. great vid.
I don't have an air stapler, what other fastener would be sufficient?
sub floor ring nails hammered in by hand
I wish staples were never invented.
would u be able to Glue this use the carpenter glue and just use few screws ?? thx
No, not with carpenter glue for sure . Maybe v notched trowel applying construction adhesive but it would be a real PITA to remove down the road. The ring nails or staples work great
@@HouseImprovements The problem is i got a floor heating so that is why i thought may be i use glue and other thing is how did you level your floor is it after you install new underpayment ??? My sub floor is not level should i level it first level it with quick leveler than I install the new underlay or after i install the new underlay . My aim is to install new under lay than Schulter Ditra and 24x24 tile but the other problem is the floor is not level by the way what this wood calls the one you use would i be able to use it for tile thx
Thank you for a great video! I have a question if you don’t mind. I had some foundation work done. The company that did it took a couple of subfloor pannels and replace them very poorly.
Everything seems to be level but there are gaps of around 1/2 inch or more between old subfloor and the replacement. They were planning on filling the gaps with foam. Would you recommend doing that and then put an underlayment on top or would it be better to replace the new planks so they fit properly? Thank you!!
Yes.
Good video. How about using fiberboard as underlay and morter mix as filler?
the mortar would have very little strength once it was watered down enough to spread thin.
HouseImprovements What would be a good adhesive between 55 year old plywood and new fiberboard? Glue and staple then vinyl floor? Thanks.
this is for one single piece of vinyl? I will do vinyl plank...should I do the same underlayment?
That would be fine under vinyl plank as well.
what type of wood should i use for tile underpayment does it matter
Sir : do you have a video showing the preparation for tilling? Also: I thought that I was suppose to put a kind ok foam (approximately 1/8” thickness) against my walls and the plywood/press boards...? Thank you . I must say that I like the “calmness” of your videos. Thanks again
Do you need to patch or fill the seam?
Thanks
Particle board void the warranty for vinyl. The manufacturer wants you to use a plywood that is rated for underlayment...and yes you do have to prep the board seams so they don’t show through the vinyl
If I use a 5mm underlay can I use a wood glue product to secure it to the subfloor? I'd like to avoid the staples and nails. I'll just brad nail the corners and use a little wood glue. Thoughts?
No. Do NOT glue underlayment to the subfloor. And don't use particleboard for underlayment, as was done in this video.
We don't have a sub floor.
Will. Vynil go down ok?
Enclosed porch.
if the subfloor is smooth and a proper product that you can cover with vinyl sheet flooring. Our forum is a great place to go when you have questions.www.house-improvements.com/forums/
my house was built in 56 so my subfloor is planks on joist. I'm laying 1/2'' plywood over that. can you tell me the gap I should leave between plywood and drywall, and gap between sheets? also what spacing should I use when fastening it down? thank you
leave about an 1/8 from the drywall and 1/16 between sheets.
Thank you Shannon. Great video !
Wev are using plywood just because it holds up to moisture better. Would it be the same nailing pattern?
yes
thanks for your videos. Question. I have a floor (laundry area) on the main-floor-area that is not leveled when at the wall, so it feels like a bow when approaching to the center of the small room. How could I level it before I place new floor? thanks!
please use my forum. www.house-improvements.com/forums/
Hi Cannon, I have vinyl flooring in the bathroom and I want to replace with the tiles. I believe underneath is plywood flooring and do i have to install any underlayment prior to apply the cement? If it does requires then please tell me what type of underlayment. Thanks
Please use our forum for help. www.house-improvements.com/forums/
Thanks for the video! Very helpful.
I hear some people add glue when installing particle board on top of plywood subfloor. Is this needed or just a preference?I am installing laminate in in Kitchen living room and dining room and need to replace particle board in kitchen area.
+Michael s Not necessary when the nailing/stapling is done correct, but you can if you want.
Would you ever use a floor leveling product before you install the underlayment so as to make the subfloor more even if there are low areas? Also, do you ever paint/coat the underlayment so as to make it more moisture resistant?
Thank you for all these videos. Why are the best ones from CA? (You and Theoldkid888)
Use the floor leveller on the top of the underlayment. I have never painted or treated the underlayment, I suppose you could as long as it did not cause problems with your glue.
NEVER ever use self leveling cement on particle board or mdf. Some even say not even to use it on OSB. Self leveling compound/cement is best used on plywood after your subfloor is to the correct thickness to support the finished flooring you're laying.
Would this help level the bottom floor?
If it is not to out of level it should but if you really need to correct quite a bit then you may need to look into self leveling cement patch and go thicker than the skim coat the Shannon used here ! If it is really really out of wack then you may need a couple of applications ! If you really want Shannon and his team's help then it maybe best to go to his website and click the forum tab ( I think it was near the top left of the page ) and see if your question has already been asked or see if you can ask your question there !
What gauge is the staple should be used?
the waste pipe doesn't have to be flush with the finished floor?
Hi Shannon, I am dealing with a concrete floor at my basement bathroom and the existing flooring is just junk since previous owner laid glue and linoleum directly over the concrete slab. I guess my question is how to do this the right way? I want glued in vinyl flooring and was wondering if I can lay some vapor barrier/retardant first then 1/4" subfloor screwed on and then glue and laminate? Would 1/4" subfloor be sufficient here?
Do you always put underlay on subfloor when doing flooring? Is this only for vinyl or would i also do this for laminate etc.?
generally not needed for laminate
Okay, Thanks for the quick reply.
Home depot has 5mm underlayment, in 4x8 sheets. Is that too thin? A floor guy told me the vinyl will bubble through the staple holes if it's not at least 3/8 thick
I watched a professional flooring company use that exact stuff a few years ago in a house that had flooded. Five years and it still looks great and no oddities in the floor.
When laying linoleum, can't you just spread floor leveling compound over the wood subfloor (instead of 3/8" underlayment), so as not to increase floor height when you do not want to remove a sink/vanity?
If the plywood is in good shape and no real gaps between the sheets you may get away with it. The problem is if it flexes much when stepping on it the self leveller may crack and loosen over time. The underlayment helps to span joints in the plywood to reduce the flex.
Why isn't backer board set with thinset and then screwed down used, particularly in a bathroom where water can be an issue?
backer board is not smooth enough to apply vinyl sheet flooring to.
Backerboard is mainly use for tile
Shannon, I see you took some flak earlier for the pressed wood. Some people already know it all but still come to TH-cam for instructions...
Anyways, could you describe a bit what thought process did go into choosing the underlay material? I'm thinking cement board myself but this will be my first bathroom subfloor. You mentioned vinyl, I'm thinking tile.
The press type board is very very common here for under vinyl so that is what I use. For tiles I use products like Ditra uncoupling membranes. If you come to my forum and ask about subfloor options for under tiles I will answer it better there.
www.house-improvements.com/forums/
Right on. I'll enlist on your boards. Thanks.
hypothetically speaking, would it be okay, for example, to screw the underlayment in instead of nailing or stapling?
Yes it will definitely work and be sturdy enough that it won't shift. I like to use 1/4 inch plywood which people sometimes call it "luan" and screw it down with 1-5/8" screws just in case the subfloor was squeaky it won't be anymore!
How did you cut the flange hole?
jig saw
He used a jigsaw. Remember his comment that if you don't know how to use the tools, you probably shouldn't do the job
Is it necessary to tape the seams prior to laying down LVP on top of the plywood underlayment?? Anyone?
Could you use screws to fasten down?
Not in this material , screw heads will not sink below surface enough
thank you
Instead of stapling or nailing, can I get away with using 1 1/4" drywall screws when fastening the underlayment?
Typically if you try to screw this product down you are unable to counter sink the heads of the screws enough or if you do the underlay mushrooms up around the screw head and needs sanding.
drywall screws are not very strong...and depending what of floor your laying, the heads make a pretty good dimple
I can see why you have to cut the underlay in 2 sections, as it would be very difficult to fit the cut into the entirety of bathroom in one go. When determining your dimensions of first piece, is this dependent on your own choice?, or was there thought put into this?. Could you have made the first piece with only the toilet cut out, & kept the register cut out for the 2nd, instead of having it split between the two pieces?. Also how do you know where to end your underlay where the door frame is?.
Cut the pieces how you wish. usually the flooring should stop half way under the door, so place your underlay accordingly.
@@HouseImprovements Thanks boss, love your content
Why not Hardibacker underlayment?
not under vinyl sheet flooring .
Great video, If I use staples, do i need to go over them with filler and sand smooth ? What about the joint gap ? will linolium show the gap after a few years ? Thanks !
If you have large gap or staple holes fill with floor leveller
Thank you for the video
Very good
No glue?
pressed board in bathroom? Why not another layer of good old fashioned plywood?
cost mostly. Also most plywoods have voids under some of the finish layer and those can cause issues don't the road with the flooring.
gr8 vid thx!!!
Are you Canadian? You sound more Canadian than me and I’m from northern ontario where I’m told the accent is the strongest
Yes, I am from Saskatchewan
I prefer measure four times, cut once.😊
Brilliant thanks!
This is an informative video, but I strongly reccommend not using this type of wood for a sub floor ever, When does a floor not get wet? And this stuff is junk after water gets to it. I would just put 1/4 inch plywood, otherwise great job!
I think its called underlayment not subfloor. Sub floor is what attaches to joist if I am correct.
i would ve put subfloor glue.
You could but it really makes for a difficult removal down the road, subfloor glue is usually used to secure the plywood to the joist though
Nails won't hold the board well. Soon it will make squeaky noise
Ring shank flooring nails
@@HouseImprovements Hello mate, my floor boards has a hairline joint which is open to the subfloor. When I glued vinyl sheet directly to the floor boards without underlay, the vinyl bubbles along the floor board joint. I'm really puzzled. Do you know why.
exactly. NO REASON TO USE PRESSED BOARD!!!
THEN DONT. If they guy had problems with it he wouldn't be using it.
Haha... Measure Once... Oh don't we know THAT...
i recommend some comfy kneepads!
bad camerawork, suggestion leave th camera stationary and just point when explain much easier for the viewer, thanks liked the vid
bad comment, try using a different adjective other than the word bad to start out your comment. Try and be more positive. People are much more receptive that way.
Worst underlayment material you can possibly buy and you make it way worse by laying it in a bathroom. I’d never hire you! Unbelievable! 🙄
As soon as I saw you using particleboard for underlayment I realized you didn't know what the hell you were doing so I turned you off. Bye-bye!
Talk too slowly, too much extra information.