What could have been a one or two hour job for an experienced technician turned into weeks of DIY work on my Silvia! lol Despite the hassle, I think it was totally worth it. I learned so much in the process, and now I understand my machine way better than before. For hobbyists, I highly recommend opening and cleaning the boiler yourself. It’s a valuable experience! Wonderful video, my friend! Keep on posting great stuff!
Thanks Rodrigo! As you know, I share the same passion and went through the same hassle with my Silvia and Gaggia. I just hope that some people can learn from my mistakes and save some time and money. Having to buy a new boiler for my Silvia was not fun at all, but it's part of the learnings...
@@EspressoHackers I didn’t test Silvia’s boiler after the descaling process. Fingers crossed it survived my inexperience! We will know before Christmas! I set this deadline as a gift to myself! Lol
Due to Gaggia Classic Evo's boilergate i had my boiler replaced in November. I'm using Brita water filters to filter the water, but I decided to descale every 2 months now because it is no longer coated boiler, just aluminium and on average I'm pulling one shot of espresso each day. I'm voting for you to do the video of your descaling process :)
Thanks for your comments. I don't know where you live, but if the water is hard in your area, I recommend you to test with those cheap TDS meters. You may realise that your water is still too hard (Brita was not very efficient in my tests, but much better than tap water) or that is soft and you don't need to descale so frequently. I'll try to edit the video that I have here descaling my Gaggia and I'll post here, maybe in January only... And I'll soon disassemble my ECM Classika PID to check the boiler, and this one I'll probably post sooner.
I’d definitely be interested in seeing you take apart the boiler step by step to inspect visually. I’ve got an ACS Minima and everything is so tightly packed inside, I’m nervous if I took it apart I wouldn’t get it back together! (Though the technicians manage it fine so maybe it’s time I learned.) You may have glossed over it but I’d recommend getting separate GH and KH test kits if you haven’t already. TDS alone doesn’t really tell the whole story. Ideally I’d like to lower my KH more than GH but haven’t found a practical filter solution so filter both and then add magnesium back in (as diluted Epsom salts). I used a Zero Water for a little while but the cartridges didn’t last long enough. I ended up buying a distiller!
@andrew.chinery wow, nice machine! If you want to open your boiler, my main recommendation is make a video of the whole process, taking pictures of details that you may forget, very stupid things like to which side a component was facing for example. Many times I had to go back and check how to reassemble a discharge valve for example. An easier option is maybe removing one screw or anything that give you access to the interior and use an endoscopie to see inside. I think it's gonna be my first step. If the images show me a low level of scaling, I'll do the regular procedure. But I'll post here. You will see! Regarding the test kits, you're absolutely right. I thought it would be too much if I detailed what's KH and GH, but yes, it's KH that matters. I'll probably by one of those kits to check against the TDS meter, just to confirm if it's a good approximation or not. I believe that it is. But I'll check. I didn't investigate the cost of distilling systems, but I'll do some research as well. I thought it would be more expensive than Zerowater. Do you recommend any brand? Thanks for your contributions!
I have a Rancilio Silvia (brass boiler) and would to ask you if the boiler material has any influence in the scaling growth. Also, I am interested in the best descaling practices you have (or had) with your Silvia machine.
@gustavorossetto5111 To be honest, I don't know if it has a significant influence. I hear a lot of people saying that the aluminium boiler from Gaggia suffers from galvanic corrosion, but this one was in good shape (maybe protected by the thick layer of limescale 😂). Regarding the descaling for Silvia, I think monitoring the flow as suggested by James makes sense. And no matter which machine you have, I'd never use hard water because if affects the flavor, buffering the acidic notes that I want in a fruity espresso for example. In my Silvia I also use the water between 90-110 PPM, mixing zerowater with tap water. I know that tap water is not ideal in the mix but I'm trying to reduce my plastics consumption. In the future, I'll remineralize my water, I already bought the salts to make some experiments but it will take a while until I feel safe to use in an espresso machine that I cannot inspect the boiler so easily.
There are also things like metallic meshes for kettles to slow down scale formation (or actually forms on the mesh which is easier to clean) Perhaps, in theory, it is possible to put one inside the boiler tank too.
Thanks for the comments. I didn't know EDTA, but I googled and seems great. And it's also considered food safe both in US and Europe. Regarding the mesh, I think the problem is putting it inside the boiler. Limescale is formed when the water is hot, then, it needs to be in or after the boiler. And yoi don't want cristals of calcium in your boiler, believe me. I had a hard time cleaning the boiler, OPV, solenoid etc... all the parts...
Depends how you define "regularly descaling" I'm sure the person you bought that off has vastly different time frame in their mind. .I have the same machine, same year and I live in London which has hard water so I use 5L spring water bottles from Tesco they only cost £1.50. This water taste fantastic for the coffee and does not create the lime scale as it has extremely low levels of calcium carbonate which is what turns into limescale under high heat and oxidisation. I bought my machine second hand and took the boiler out and let it soak over night in citric acid as it was full of limescale. Now I de scale every 6 months using a Swiss solution thats better on Aluminium boilers and let it soak over night before flushing the boiler.
@CH-yp5by I think you are way above the average in terms of knowledge and practices👏👏👏 Most domestic users seem to be unaware of the scaling process. The specialty coffee hobbist, probably a bit better, but the entrance level machines are probably owned also by the newbies. I don't know, just speculating here. But thanks for your comments! If I move to London someday, I know which water I should use 😉
Excellent video. Thank you. I have Gaggia classic pro and use tap water with an average tds of 38ppm; any recommendation on frequency for descaling? Do you recommend descaling only through the steam wand or both steam wand and brew group?
@geomcl thanks! I think you will be fine for more than a year without descaling with such a low TDS. My experience is that I've been using a water with TDS between 90-110 for more than a year without descaling and my boiler had no signs of scaling. But when descaling, it should be through all the parts that hot water / steam goes, i. e. both group and steam wand. I'll post a video about my experience in January and I'll show all the details about my maintenance, water and how I descaled my ECM.
I have the same ecm classika pid. I use tap water only with no filtration. The tap water is 0,75 mgeq/l or ~2 dH. Do you have any idea how this relates to the ppm? I’m waiting for you to open the boiler on that machine😅
@c2329ra thanks for your comments. I just googled and it seems that 2 dH is considered very soft and you shouldn't have issue with scaling, or at least not as much as people in Europe and US. I'll soon open the boiler of my ECM. Just trying to organize myself because there are too many topics that I'm interested but since I need to document to share with others, it takes much more of my time to make it in a structured way. And I think Gaggiuino is one of the hot topics for the audience, and festivities are coming, but I'll soon post some videos about all this and more that it's in the backlog... Cheers!
@ thank you for taking the time to answer! Since you mentioned Gaggiuino, I will share with a one crazy idea: I always thought that an e61 machine is the perfect candidate for some automation. Put an electric valve for a pressure profiler, replace the manual lever with an electric valve too. Put combined temp and pressure reader inside the 6mm screw and operate all of this with arduino :)
@c2329ra you know that I also wanted to do something similar? 😂 But it's too complicated and expensive. I may install in a machine like Victoria or Profitec 300 in the future, but it's not so appealing as an E61. Let's see...
Merde!! 2 ans avec ma gaggia classic sans descale du tout😅 j'utilisais de l'eau de source et chaque fois que j'inspectais l'intérieur les tubes étaient nickel (j'assumais peut-être à tord..). Depuis que j'ai changé à de l'eau filtré il y a environ seulement 1 mois je vois une certaine accumulation dans les tubes.
@@simonmonty7171 2 ans je croix qu'il est beaucoup. Vous pouvez essayer de détartrer mais cela risque de se boucher. Ensuite, il faudra démonter la chaudière, l'OPV, l'électrovanne et le groupe pour une révision complète. Bonne chance!
I regular use the sage/breville desclare, but in time my steam wand got clogged. Plain food grade vinegar with letting it setting it in for a couple of hours was a better descaler
If it's only the steam wand, you can also use an acupuncture needle to remove the excess before descaling. And it's recommended to use citric acid. I read that vinegar may leave a weird taste but I don't have any experience vinegar.
Hi, I just found your channel. My first superautomatic coffee machine is due to be delivered today. I started looking into it and I think (could be wrong) boiler of De'Longhi Eletta Explore espresso machine is made of stainless steel. "Boiler material: The Eletta Explore's boiler is made of stainless steel." acording to AI search. What would be best practices for that type of machine? I plan to use tap water which is quite hard but it also comes with an integrated filter
Seems to be a nice machine, you can use pre-ground coffee for those special moments... and according to the manual, you can use a water softener and you will receive also some water hardness tests. Those machines will require you to descale based on the water hardness that you set and the number of shots extracted. In this case, I'd follow the manual.
What could have been a one or two hour job for an experienced technician turned into weeks of DIY work on my Silvia! lol Despite the hassle, I think it was totally worth it. I learned so much in the process, and now I understand my machine way better than before. For hobbyists, I highly recommend opening and cleaning the boiler yourself. It’s a valuable experience! Wonderful video, my friend! Keep on posting great stuff!
Thanks Rodrigo! As you know, I share the same passion and went through the same hassle with my Silvia and Gaggia. I just hope that some people can learn from my mistakes and save some time and money. Having to buy a new boiler for my Silvia was not fun at all, but it's part of the learnings...
@@EspressoHackers I didn’t test Silvia’s boiler after the descaling process. Fingers crossed it survived my inexperience! We will know before Christmas! I set this deadline as a gift to myself! Lol
I would appreciate a boiler descaling video!
Yes a video on how to property descale would be appreciated
Great video, my friend! I'm learning a lot with you. Keep going with the channel!
@NãoSouBarista thanks, Thales! I'm flattered with such a qualified audience 😉
Very well explained, and none of that speeded up rubbish and stupid music drowning everything out,,, many thanks
@andrewfreeman-u1q thanks for the feedback. I'm glad that it's being helpful!
Thank you for your clear cut straight forward expert knowledge. Very helpful
@adrian14752 thanks for the kind words!
I really would want a step by step about descaling.
Subscribing rn
Due to Gaggia Classic Evo's boilergate i had my boiler replaced in November. I'm using Brita water filters to filter the water, but I decided to descale every 2 months now because it is no longer coated boiler, just aluminium and on average I'm pulling one shot of espresso each day. I'm voting for you to do the video of your descaling process :)
Thanks for your comments. I don't know where you live, but if the water is hard in your area, I recommend you to test with those cheap TDS meters. You may realise that your water is still too hard (Brita was not very efficient in my tests, but much better than tap water) or that is soft and you don't need to descale so frequently.
I'll try to edit the video that I have here descaling my Gaggia and I'll post here, maybe in January only...
And I'll soon disassemble my ECM Classika PID to check the boiler, and this one I'll probably post sooner.
I’d definitely be interested in seeing you take apart the boiler step by step to inspect visually. I’ve got an ACS Minima and everything is so tightly packed inside, I’m nervous if I took it apart I wouldn’t get it back together! (Though the technicians manage it fine so maybe it’s time I learned.)
You may have glossed over it but I’d recommend getting separate GH and KH test kits if you haven’t already. TDS alone doesn’t really tell the whole story. Ideally I’d like to lower my KH more than GH but haven’t found a practical filter solution so filter both and then add magnesium back in (as diluted Epsom salts).
I used a Zero Water for a little while but the cartridges didn’t last long enough. I ended up buying a distiller!
@andrew.chinery wow, nice machine!
If you want to open your boiler, my main recommendation is make a video of the whole process, taking pictures of details that you may forget, very stupid things like to which side a component was facing for example. Many times I had to go back and check how to reassemble a discharge valve for example.
An easier option is maybe removing one screw or anything that give you access to the interior and use an endoscopie to see inside. I think it's gonna be my first step. If the images show me a low level of scaling, I'll do the regular procedure.
But I'll post here. You will see!
Regarding the test kits, you're absolutely right. I thought it would be too much if I detailed what's KH and GH, but yes, it's KH that matters. I'll probably by one of those kits to check against the TDS meter, just to confirm if it's a good approximation or not. I believe that it is. But I'll check.
I didn't investigate the cost of distilling systems, but I'll do some research as well. I thought it would be more expensive than Zerowater. Do you recommend any brand?
Thanks for your contributions!
Would also love a descaling vid!
I have a Rancilio Silvia (brass boiler) and would to ask you if the boiler material has any influence in the scaling growth. Also, I am interested in the best descaling practices you have (or had) with your Silvia machine.
@gustavorossetto5111 To be honest, I don't know if it has a significant influence. I hear a lot of people saying that the aluminium boiler from Gaggia suffers from galvanic corrosion, but this one was in good shape (maybe protected by the thick layer of limescale 😂).
Regarding the descaling for Silvia, I think monitoring the flow as suggested by James makes sense. And no matter which machine you have, I'd never use hard water because if affects the flavor, buffering the acidic notes that I want in a fruity espresso for example. In my Silvia I also use the water between 90-110 PPM, mixing zerowater with tap water. I know that tap water is not ideal in the mix but I'm trying to reduce my plastics consumption. In the future, I'll remineralize my water, I already bought the salts to make some experiments but it will take a while until I feel safe to use in an espresso machine that I cannot inspect the boiler so easily.
EDTA is a winner when it comes to boiler descaling
There are also things like metallic meshes for kettles to slow down scale formation (or actually forms on the mesh which is easier to clean)
Perhaps, in theory, it is possible to put one inside the boiler tank too.
But that will require frequent dissassemblies of course. So I am 100% for EDTA rinsings.
Thanks for the comments. I didn't know EDTA, but I googled and seems great. And it's also considered food safe both in US and Europe.
Regarding the mesh, I think the problem is putting it inside the boiler. Limescale is formed when the water is hot, then, it needs to be in or after the boiler. And yoi don't want cristals of calcium in your boiler, believe me. I had a hard time cleaning the boiler, OPV, solenoid etc... all the parts...
Do you have a video for opening up your e61 machine?
@khoang82 I'll post in January a video about descaling my ECM Classika PID and I'll show how to disassemble and inspect it.
Depends how you define "regularly descaling" I'm sure the person you bought that off has vastly different time frame in their mind. .I have the same machine, same year and I live in London which has hard water so I use 5L spring water bottles from Tesco they only cost £1.50.
This water taste fantastic for the coffee and does not create the lime scale as it has extremely low levels of calcium carbonate which is what turns into limescale under high heat and oxidisation. I bought my machine second hand and took the boiler out and let it soak over night in citric acid as it was full of limescale. Now I de scale every 6 months using a Swiss solution thats better on Aluminium boilers and let it soak over night before flushing the boiler.
@CH-yp5by I think you are way above the average in terms of knowledge and practices👏👏👏
Most domestic users seem to be unaware of the scaling process. The specialty coffee hobbist, probably a bit better, but the entrance level machines are probably owned also by the newbies. I don't know, just speculating here.
But thanks for your comments! If I move to London someday, I know which water I should use 😉
Excellent video. Thank you. I have Gaggia classic pro and use tap water with an average tds of 38ppm; any recommendation on frequency for descaling? Do you recommend descaling only through the steam wand or both steam wand and brew group?
@geomcl thanks! I think you will be fine for more than a year without descaling with such a low TDS. My experience is that I've been using a water with TDS between 90-110 for more than a year without descaling and my boiler had no signs of scaling. But when descaling, it should be through all the parts that hot water / steam goes, i. e. both group and steam wand. I'll post a video about my experience in January and I'll show all the details about my maintenance, water and how I descaled my ECM.
@ Excellent. I appreciate your help.
I have the same ecm classika pid. I use tap water only with no filtration. The tap water is 0,75 mgeq/l or ~2 dH. Do you have any idea how this relates to the ppm? I’m waiting for you to open the boiler on that machine😅
@c2329ra thanks for your comments. I just googled and it seems that 2 dH is considered very soft and you shouldn't have issue with scaling, or at least not as much as people in Europe and US. I'll soon open the boiler of my ECM. Just trying to organize myself because there are too many topics that I'm interested but since I need to document to share with others, it takes much more of my time to make it in a structured way. And I think Gaggiuino is one of the hot topics for the audience, and festivities are coming, but I'll soon post some videos about all this and more that it's in the backlog... Cheers!
@ thank you for taking the time to answer! Since you mentioned Gaggiuino, I will share with a one crazy idea: I always thought that an e61 machine is the perfect candidate for some automation. Put an electric valve for a pressure profiler, replace the manual lever with an electric valve too. Put combined temp and pressure reader inside the 6mm screw and operate all of this with arduino :)
@c2329ra you know that I also wanted to do something similar? 😂
But it's too complicated and expensive. I may install in a machine like Victoria or Profitec 300 in the future, but it's not so appealing as an E61. Let's see...
Merde!! 2 ans avec ma gaggia classic sans descale du tout😅 j'utilisais de l'eau de source et chaque fois que j'inspectais l'intérieur les tubes étaient nickel (j'assumais peut-être à tord..). Depuis que j'ai changé à de l'eau filtré il y a environ seulement 1 mois je vois une certaine accumulation dans les tubes.
@@simonmonty7171 2 ans je croix qu'il est beaucoup. Vous pouvez essayer de détartrer mais cela risque de se boucher. Ensuite, il faudra démonter la chaudière, l'OPV, l'électrovanne et le groupe pour une révision complète. Bonne chance!
@@EspressoHackers ohlala! Merci!
I regular use the sage/breville desclare, but in time my steam wand got clogged. Plain food grade vinegar with letting it setting it in for a couple of hours was a better descaler
If it's only the steam wand, you can also use an acupuncture needle to remove the excess before descaling. And it's recommended to use citric acid. I read that vinegar may leave a weird taste but I don't have any experience vinegar.
Great video! Thanks for sharing
@reasons4171 great that you liked and thanks for the incentive!
So how did you get rid of all that calciumcarbonate in your second hand machine? 😲
@gammelgemse I used a brass brush to remove the excess, then put hot water with citric acid at 4% 70 degrees, and brushed a lot again, 3 or 4 cycles.
Hi, I just found your channel. My first superautomatic coffee machine is due to be delivered today. I started looking into it and I think (could be wrong) boiler of De'Longhi Eletta Explore espresso machine is made of stainless steel. "Boiler material: The Eletta Explore's boiler is made of stainless steel." acording to AI search. What would be best practices for that type of machine? I plan to use tap water which is quite hard but it also comes with an integrated filter
Seems to be a nice machine, you can use pre-ground coffee for those special moments... and according to the manual, you can use a water softener and you will receive also some water hardness tests. Those machines will require you to descale based on the water hardness that you set and the number of shots extracted. In this case, I'd follow the manual.