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In the "ultimate guide for pid installation", I answered this question about the dual SSR. Take a look in the thread initiated by Psyphoid. Regarding the spec, not sure if I understood, but your SSR needs to be DC-AC, in general 3-32 DC and 24-380 AC, 40A. I have the specs for all the components in www.espressohackers.com in the BOM for PID installation.

Thanks for sharing your experience! I'm anxious to finish mine and get all these benefits!

@@propertwb thanks for the kind words!

@TheFazeel123 it's expensive, I agree.I like to think that I'm getting the same capabilities of a Decent for less than 1/4 of thr price.

@@moilami1 wise! And lucky! If you like, this is what matters!

@simonchis9333 thanks! Silvia is a great platform for modifications and can deliver excellent espressos, one of the best cost-benefit ratio in my opinion. If you have time and interest, it's worth giving some love, it will be a completely different machine, even if add just the PID, Dimmer and pressure gauge. The PCB is being delayed, I'll explain in the video that I'm posting today, they are having problems with the display supplier that changed components without marking with a different revision, but as soon as I receive mine, I'll modifify my Silvia as well. Cheers!

@@LeonMcKeethanks for the great comments!

@@Braziliancoffelover boa! São muitos equipamentos pra lembrar de todos kkk... depois adiciono la como mais uma opcao pra galera!

@@EspressoHackers Seria possivel fazer um gagguino numa lelit Elizabeth? Desta forma, teria a vantagem do dual boiler + as métricas nerds. Estou planejando viajar pra Ue e pensando em usar a fatia de isenção pra amenizar no custo. O orçamento seria de 1.5k dol(ja contando com os 50% de taxa sobre o saldo restante) pra maquina e mais 1k$ da patroa pro moedor. Algo elétrico que de pra brincar com as SSP haha. Meu foco seria pegar o best budget pra um nerd com uma maquina que aceitasse o movimento de uma cafeteria de pequeno porte.

@Braziliancoffelover tem como, mas precisa dar uma fuçada. Ja fizeram em máquinas dual boiler, tiveram que adaptar, mas não cheguei a verificar como fizeram. Dá uma pesquisada no Discord. Se quer brincar com as SSP, compre um DF64. É o melhor custo benefício.

@@jacobmandel919 in theory, yes, they have a boiler, solenoid valve, vibratory pump... If you go to the discord, you may see several different machines that they implemented.

@@reactionsok Silvia is the next. I'm just waiting for the PCB to be delivered!

@Psyphoid thanks! One idea is to use the alarm function to trigger a second SSR, but I never explored this route, just heard some people mentioning about the possibility. Another option is having a second PID or maybe there's a PID controller that is dual channel, not sure about it. PS: SSRs work only as a switch, they cannot control the temperature, the control is in the PID.

@@EspressoHackers Thank you for your great response! I think this is how the Auber does this function. Do you have any insight as to how they wiring might look to achieve this? Any Idea how they have flashed the firmware on the xmt7100 to be able to add the brew timer and pre infusion? I am guessing this is how they added that functionality.

@Psyphoid the alarm strategy, I can only tell what I read: you need a dual alarm PID controller, e.g. a Rex C100 with the code ending in AB which means that Alarm 1 is for upper limit and Alarm 2 for lower limit. Then, you will connect both AL1 and AL2 in series and set AH to 150 and AL to 155 for example (looks like it should be the opposite but it's not) which will make AL 2 to close when below 155 and AL1 also close above 150, keeping the temperature within this band, while AL2 would open when above 155. The output would go to the steam button (and you need to remove the high voltage connected to it beforehand) and from the steam button to the second SSR, to trigger the AC voltage. Then, the alarm would only command the SSR when the steam button is activated. And the AC in the SSR shall be the same that you had in the SSR for brewing. The issue, when I read this, is that you would still have to set the target temperature to 155 manually or the alarms would never be triggered, and then why do you need the alarms? Why not using just the PID and same thermostat to control? Sorry but I didn't go deeper on this, I'm telling you by memory what I investigated in the past. Do some research, it was a polish guy that I think that implemented. And be careful and test everything, check the schematics of your machine (the logic behind the buttons may be confused with some Normally Open and Normally Closed working together in double switches), and test without power first to check if your wiring is correct. I don't have a PID with dual alarm otherwise I would test this option, then, what I'm explaining here is just theory.

@zachpfeif thanks! Glad that it helped. The next one will be about the several options to help you to make your choices and acquisitions. Stay tuned!

@@Psyphoid Hi. Thanks! In Rancilio Silvia, we use M3.

@@EspressoHackers I was thinking this option would be better, but after reading your documentation, I see you think a washer style is better. I ordered a k type washer style, so I will try this first and see how it goes as it is considerably cheaper than a pt100 thermocouple. Any other suggestions for the thermocouple?

@Psyphoid Both washer or threaded works. I like most the washer style because I think it will have better contact with the boiler and I can put under the original thermostat and leave it there (if I decide to revert to original). PT100 is only if you want +-0.1 degrees precision which it's not necessary. Type k is the best cost benefit, in my opinion. You will be fine with the washer type.

@MrGiuliom many thanks! Glad that I'm helping!

@@propertwb glad that it helped!

@@chrisc7262 thanks! Silvia is coming, I'm just waiting for the PCB. There's a problem with the display supplier right now, but Zer0-bit is on top of that. I hope Peak resumes shipping soon. But in parallel, I'll make the mod in my Gaggia. Keep tuned!

@@TheFazeel123 good to know that it helped!

@ looking forward to the next videos highlighting your build…did you go the pcb or lego route?

@TheFazeel123 PCB. It's the easiest and I don't wanna spend hours sourcing, testing, soldering, crimping etc. You're interested in the Lego or PCB route?

@ I’m interested in the pcb route for the same reasons.

@@TheFazeel123 we'll do it together then! 😉

@718og thanks for the comments ans sharing your experience. Unfortunately, I don't have the easy access anymore to the wide range of specialty Brazilian coffees as I had in Brazil. I live in the Netherlands now. And in Europe, in general, they bring more the nutty/chocolate beans. I only found the more fruity, fermented, or even the floral coffees from Brazil in a few roasters in Europe, but it's also nice to have more access to the beans in the rest of the world (in Brazil, it's almost impossible to import green beans).

@@Paul88-qg5hu I think the problem is that the water is very hard here. It may work in some places, maybe where the TDS is below 150. But I didn't have a good experience and returned it. Thanks for sharing your experience!

@@moilami1 thanks! This Leva for Ito is also interesting!

@@EspressoHackers Indeed! If you dig deeper into it, you find that it seems to be an active project and the board have good features.

@moilami1 indeed. I took a quick look and there's nice stuff there. I'll do a deep dive later, putting in the backlog. First I'll try to finish my Gaggiuino installation and publish some videos to help those who are intimidated by electronics. Gaggimate is another interesting initiative, they just started, but I'll follow that development as well and maybe share something here if I manage to get one of the boards in the future.

@@moilami1 😂 thanks!

@@thayannefreire hope to satisfy your expectations. The other videos will come soon 😉

@Victorgigandon I think it will take a couple of months. I ordered my PCB in Nov and it wasn't shipped yet. But the tutorials for the Gaggias I'll start posting this Wed and I'll cover a bit the Silvia's.

@@schoenimzweitakt thanks for the tip, I hadn't come across tartaric acid. Very complex subject. I'll keep studying and posting my discoveries here!

@ You‘re very welcome. I learned the hard way myself, when my Gaggia clogged up After descaling with citric acid🤨. Have nice day!

@eddieliao1500 Does RO give you a water with zero minerals? Just curiosity on the effectiveness. I'm currently mixing zerowater with tap water to achieve 90-110 PPM in TDS, but you're right, depending on where you are, the water can be super hard and scale can build up really fast to the point that it may clog some parts.

@@EspressoHackers RO water basically remove everything from water. However, it depends on the equipment you have. You might still have very little minerals in the water. Thus, we use TDS meter to test if RO filter still function. For instance, TDS value from tap water where I live is around 150 and RO water from equipment I use reduces it to around 4. Clearly, most of the minerals are being removed. That tap water is very hard in my opinion. If you boil water in a pan, you can see the calcium floating on the surface of water. In long term, you do not want to have those scale built up in your system. It damages your machine and takes lots of time to clean it up. I understand people are arguing that minerals provides better favor to your coffee. Thus, there are people, even coffee shops, adding Magnesium to RO water and of course TDS value would go up. According to them, Magnesium indeed helps.

@eddieliao1500 thanks for the detailed information. I don't know if you saw the whole video, but I used water with TDS between 90-110 for 15 months and the boiler was super clean, at least my ECM Classika PID that has a stainless steel boiler. I need to do some research on other filtration methods. Zerowater is a bit expensive. Reverse osmosis, from what I know, is also expensive, but in the long run, shall be less than zerowater. I need to do some Calc... thanks again for your comments!

@@EspressoHackers Just FYI. my expense on RO system. RO machine : 250 usd (including all filters) Taptec RO 400G membrane (replace every 2yrs) : 50 usd/pc -25 usd/yr 1nm PP filter (replace every 6 months) : 5 usd/pc - 10 usd/yr 1nm CTO Cartridge (2pcs per time, replace every 6 months) : 5usd/pc - 20 usd/yr -------------------------------------------- Annual fee: 25+10+20=55 usd My espresso machine is ECM synchronika, which has 2 stainless steel boilers. RO works fine in my mahcine. The company sold the machine to me also mentioned that using RO is best for it. FYI.

@eddieliao1500 thanks! It's much cheaper than zerowater. I thought it was much more expensive, more than those BWT systems, but it's quite affordable. I'll take a look to see if it fits here.

@@luluba01antonio 😂😂😂

@NãoSouBarista Thanks, Thales! Super happy and honored with your presence here and kind words! Buy one of these cameras and make a video with your cinematographic skills, the audience deserve it 😉

I do agree that descaling is tedious, as well as lubricating the lever. But I think using soft water, you will be fine with a yearly descaling. From what I saw in my machine, I can extend to even longer than 15 months.

Parece razoável, sim. Porém, eu prefiro medir, pois não sei o que vem da tubulação, por exemplo, e um medidor de TDS é muito barato e me permite fazer alguns experimentos com a água. Mas é um bom indicativo.

Thanks!

@TheMcspreader thanks for raising this point! I'm trusting that citric acid is OK because it's the main component of the solution from Gaggia and I didn't find definitive conclusions on this matter, but I'll keep looking for more technical info and I'll share here if I discover something new.

@fleischpflanzerlmitsenf that's a great feedback, thanks! Do you know the hardness of your water? I know that I can google but sometimes the same brand is available from different fountains which change the composition. But I'm supposing that the water is soft, and then, again, if there's no calcium, there's no limescale. Thanks again for your contribution!

Weed CA where it is currently from. Not sure they had the same source all 12 years. I just checked and hardness is between 24-29. I am not sure about the metric.

@LanceHedrick thanks and glad that you're here! 😉

@EspressoHackers always following along.

And happy that I'm learning with my mistakes... I hope 😂😂😂

@@marcosviniciusdecarvalho4030 valeu!

@@davemXCrusty Grazie mille!

@@pedrod45 obrigaco! O plano é ter a Silviuino tbm!

@vickosis thanks for the comments! I don't know how closer E24 will be to Silvia now in terms of temperature stability, but I don't believe it's a critical difference since the previous performance was good enough. Regarding steam power, it's still 100-130 ml (I've seen different information) against 300 ml, so a huge volume difference that probably still makes Silvia much better in this aspect. The price is a big factor in the US where Silvia is tippically 80% more expensive, in Europe circa 30%, then I'd chose Gaggia in US, no doubt. The remaining differences, to my view, are more a matter of personal preference. I could defend both defending on the use case. Having both, I can say that I love and hate a few characteristics of both machines and in the end it's what I like most rather than what's the best. But indeed, Gaggia is a bit more compact and sometimes the real estate in the kitchen drives the choices. Thanks again, good comments and discussion!

@@EspressoHackers yep, it come down to preference and space availability and WOW RS being 80% more expensive in US is just crazy! Usually most consumer goods tend to be less expensive in the US from what I've seen, but I guess it's due to logistics / transportation costs etc of these machines which are often manufactured in Italy/Europe.

@vickosis yes, logistics and importation taxes I think. It's about 900 dollars in US and 500 for a Gaggia Classic.

With a PID, dimmer and pressure gauge you will have most of what you can do with a Gaggiuino. Check my playlist with the 3 basic mods if you need to learn how to install and my website www.espressohackers.com where I put a list of components and tools needed, and step by step instructions on how to install each of these components.

​@@EspressoHackers thank you! I'll read it closely.

@ronjones1414 thanks for the comments! What do you mean by discharge pressure? The brew pressure? If so, this is not what affects most, but the flow. Higher flow will lead to faster drop in temperature. Then, a turbo shot shall be more difficult to keep the temperature at the desired level and a ristretto shall be easier. Also, the longer the shot, more difficult to remain stable since the boiler is very small and with a high flow in a long shot, the heating element may not have enough power to recover. Then, again the ascending curve shall be more favorable for these cases. Hope it clarifies a bit. I didn't know this topic would be so popular, but maybe in the future I can make a more comprehensive one on temperature surfing.

@@EspressoHackers Certainly, the change in volume of water is what impacts temperature variability; however, because the conduit size is fixed (assuming we accept that puck resistance is the same and that the OPV setting is constant,) then the only thing that will modify flow rate is a modification in pump discharge pressure. Consider adding a rheostat to a pump (the dimmer mod, still don't know why we call it that.) Modifying the input power modifies the discharge pressure, modifying the volume of water moving through the puck for a given time. A 6 bar pump will fill a glass slower than a 15 bar pump assuming the discharge conduits present the same level of resistance to flow. That time change reduces the amount of time water can be in the boiler once the pump has discharged enough water out of the boiler for the make up water to create a DeltaT.

I don't know if it's what you were expecting, but in my last video that I posted today, I showed how I descaled my ECM, not the complete overhaul in my Gaggia, but I think it's the procedure that os relevant for most of the cases.

@ I will watch it, it’s probably what I need I will be getting a Gaggia next month and want to start doing everything right. I am also watching A LOT of James Hoffman’s videos

@ btw, I see that he descales with citric acid but it seems like it might damage the aluminum that the Gaggia has in the boiler (but it would be a way cheaper option for me), I live in Brasil

@Enzoerb new or second hand? If new, you won't need to descale for a while, but I'd recommend to check if your water is not hard. With a TDS meter you have an idea. I use between 90 and 110 PPM.

@Enzoerb controversial. I used citric acid in my Gaggia. In Brazil, I bought the Saeco solution, it wasn't so expensive. A bottle will suffice and you probably won't need more than 1 per year.

@aalgawi thanks for the comments! I didn't use the steam button because I thought the temperature was already too high. But you can try if you need extra temp. 2 or 4 seconds shall give you a reasonable increase and you can keep increasing until you think it's delivering a good cup. Pre-infusion in a Gaggia you have two options: using on and off, the pressure will be released and may break the puck, but many people use this option. Another is to install a dimmer. I prefer the dimmer because you can also play with pressure and flow profile. I have a video on how to install the dimmer in my 3 basic mods Playlist if you have doubts on how to install it.

@EspressoHackers I think I'm going to try installing the Gaggiuino soon which means I shouldn't install any other mods right?

@aalgawi with Gaggiuino, you don't need pid, Dimmer and pressure gauge. Buy you may want an IMS showerscreen, a brass or stainless steel diffusion disc with 4 or 6 holes, a better steam wand, lower drip tray, there are many mods available for Gaggias that you may still want to try.

@@simonmonty7171 2 ans je croix qu'il est beaucoup. Vous pouvez essayer de détartrer mais cela risque de se boucher. Ensuite, il faudra démonter la chaudière, l'OPV, l'électrovanne et le groupe pour une révision complète. Bonne chance!

@@EspressoHackers ohlala! Merci!

@@TheFazeel123 I think I'm going to start in January!

@geomcl thanks! I think you will be fine for more than a year without descaling with such a low TDS. My experience is that I've been using a water with TDS between 90-110 for more than a year without descaling and my boiler had no signs of scaling. But when descaling, it should be through all the parts that hot water / steam goes, i. e. both group and steam wand. I'll post a video about my experience in January and I'll show all the details about my maintenance, water and how I descaled my ECM.

@ Excellent. I appreciate your help.

@@dominater great tip! Thanks for the comments!

@@catalinnicolae4443 many thanks!

@adrian14752 thanks for the kind words!