I guess you did not realize that you can get LFP rack mount batteries today for $1200/5Kwh. With full certification for residential use. People are looking at these fancy smancy batteries that look like art and not looking at the workhorse segments of storage. And Hybrid inverters today that are capable of "Islanding" are less than $4k for a whole house unit capable of 8kw/16kw surge on native split-phase. DC may be a little bit less efficient, but a lot easier and cheaper to manage storage with. Especially now that we have these AIO inverter/charge controllers from Luxpower and others in the market. Gets rid of all the extra things that add to the cost of a DC system normally.
Just put a bunch of these in at work, basically half a rack of them, and damn they are nice. they only provide power to the 5 circuits we need to always have power, and it gives us about 24 hours of run time, not a monster server room, so nice now when the weather causes our power to blink for 15 to 20 minutes, it does not cause the servers and their ups to panic over it.
@@dagamore Ive got 30kwh worth of the older EG4's. 14kw solar and 4kw worth of wind. Powers everything. Even the heat pump. The only time the generator has run? I was sick in bed and didn't want to get the snow off the panels. It was cheaper in my case to go off grid than they wanted to charge me to pull wire 300ft into my property from the grid. Every year that distance is shrinking. In ten years its likely to be cheaper to be self sufficient than it is to merely pay the services charges for the pleasure of being connected to the grid, before the cost of energy is added to the equation...
Your break even time will go down . I have had my 6.7 KW solar system for 2.5 years and during that time my local utility raised their rates. This unfortunately means my bill is a more than it used to be but it also means the value of every watt I produce has increased in value. I live in an area with tiered usage so the 1st MW a month is at one rate then the rate per watt goes up when you hit the second tier. This is harder to cost calculate but it does mean smaller systems are still cost effective. They won't prevent you from having a bill but it will keep most if not all of what you use in the lowest cost tier.
Lets say you put $30,000 into a 10% return index fund you'd make $3,000 your first year and more than that each subsequent year due to compound returns. The sad reality of solar for places that already have low energy costs (15 cents per kwh is low compared to where I live where it's 36 cents) is that it doesn't pay to get it vs just putting the same money into an index fund. Where I live, our solar setup (yes I do have solar with a three-phase battery backup system from Sigenergy, not at all a hater by any stretch!) will pay for itself in 6.5 years but my investment fund will actually outperform the returns we get on our solar install aswell which is kind of a downer in a money sense, but I'm happy to be reducing our carbon footprint and run my home lab off 100% clean energy.
@@RaidOwl if you sign plan in early spring or late fall and time it with natural gas prices in Houston you can get a lot cheaper. I'm at 11.4c kwh for 3 years. I do want to get a hybrid inverter that can support solar, battery, and generator like solarks or eg4. Plus timing with a roof replacement and tax credits it works out ok. I think building the battery system up and utilizing the 9pm to 9am rate and gaming that with batteries makes more sense though.
My neighbor just got solar, I am so friggin jealous. It's in the future plans though! I like the idea of the whole house load balancing inverters using the grid & batteries as a backup.
Thanks for the update! We have a 8.8kW Tesla system with a PowerWall & frickin’ love it. Solar is just so easy if you’re willing to accept it as a long term investment.
I got two Ecoflow Delta Pro batteries and two Ecoflow Smart Home Panels last year. Save yourself the time and hassle and skip these. They are a pain in the ass to get working properly, the lights in my house flicker when running on battery, the way the scheduling system works in buggy and convoluted, etc. I tried to save some money compared to a proper battery system and instead ended up with a more complicated and less reliable system. Yes it was cheaper but no way is it worth the savings.
why, you want him to have battery backup for 3 minutes? did you see the amount of power this guy is using and that massive house? get a real battery system like the eg4 server batteries. far cheaper and better
One thing I never thought about before my job transferred me out of Texas was that several states don't give you an option of your electricity provider. You're stuck with whoever the state chooses. Just something to consider for those considering solar.
Thanks for an honest review. In an unscientific view of your roof and panels, I’d say you should expand your coverage to meet the size of your home. The economics of my installation in RI was much better at 7-8 years on the solar with net metering (credits issued no cash) and about 10-11 years on the battery since the utility will buy battery access at a premium and pay me each season.
Thanks for sharing your experience with solar. It looks like you’ve got time of day usage data too, which is both important to know where electricity is used and frustrating when you know they’ll be complicated to improve. If you’ve got a thermal camera, it can help to see missing insulation and sources of heat or cold that may be easy to fix.
Electricity bills go only one way - UP. Besides, in an Emergency you could disconnect from a dead Grid and just power your own Home (some rewiring needed)
In Arizona, I opted for solar. It doesn't cover my needs when AC is crazy. But taken over the interval of one year I am neutral or plus. Sucks that the electric company doesn't do that for metering. But it has significantly reduced my bill (credit for winter months) and I feel good about helping the grid and the carbon footprint. I fear the electric companies will continue to price in residential solar to their models and we will be "expected" to perform and no cost savings will be passed down
i had planned to invest in solar a few months ago but when i found out the costs and the life of the battery, I opened a fixed deposit at my bank for a 7% annual return, this is actually more profiting than solar now😄
Really good presentation. You didn't specifically state it but you don't pay taxes on the self generated electricity so you should calculate that as additional net savings. I'm in Arizona on SRP service. I installed panels 14 years ago targetting 56% of my need, and locked into the basic plan. I crossed the payoff point at 13.4 years. For me they pay out any credit at the end of May, at the lower winter rate. It resultes in roughly $5 credit on my bill. I back calculate the effective cost of electricity each month and the rate didnt change for 10 years. the rate has significantly jumped the past couple of years so my return value is also increased.
After watching your video. I learned one thing for sure america is expensive as heck. Where i live 16 kw on grid system costs us no more then 6000usd and thats without any government incentive
I currently have solar panels, but no batteries. We simply wouldn't produce enough excess energy with our panels to warrant the battery cost. Sadly part of our roof never gets sun. But even if we did get enough to charge the batteries, the cost of the batteries still wouldn't make sense. That's because our power plan only charges those super high rates 4 months during the summer. Other 8 months the power is relatively cheap when compared to the cost of the batteries. I even looked at some of Anker's solutions. They were cheaper, when on sale, with a payoff of around 12-14 yrs doing basic arbitrage using night rates to charge them. Not terrible. If you live somewhere with a lot of outages, that's when batteries really get their value.
Solar doesn't pay for itself quickly, but with energy costs rising it'll go quicker and quicker. The real benefit is increased quality of life due to increased energy use and the solar should pay for itself well when selling your house - around here nobody wants to buy a new house without solar. It's pretty much standard to include a solar geyser and starting solar system in new developments. That said I'm in one of the top countries for solar coverage per year.
What happens in the event of extreme weather like Texas had that one year, where it froze cables? Can solar panels overheat? Basic questions, I know. Just being lazy.
i said this on your other video and the point still stands. solar without batteries seems like a dumb idea. you already spent $43,000, a bit more for batteries is a no brainer. electricity companies are hiking rates like crazy and making grid tied systems less affordable. adding batteries makes you less dependant on them and it can save machines in your home from sudden power cuts. also the convenience of not having to go outside and plug in the generator then turn everyting back on again. they could also cut that 20 years pay off time down to. rich people paying $43,000 but trying to save $15,000 when that $15,000 will save them more money in the future.
@@RaidOwl I love your responses dude. This is part of why I keep watching to because you respond and interact. It’s also always good to watch people who you may disagree with on some stuff. Love it.
oof, that's expensive. I have friends that have installed slightly smaller systems, ~10kwh, those were $10-13k. This is in Sweden though so incentives and so on are different and electricity prices are higher.
Did you look at your historical electrical consumption and compared it to your current MWh billed to see if you have captured all of the benefit of your solar array? We have a 17.4 kW system with battery backup and ROI for us is 14 years assuming there is NO increase in electrical costs. So I am skeptical that your system ROI is 20 years. We are in NC where the current cost of energy is about $0.11/kWh which does not include all of the connection and other fees of about $30/month. Currently we consume 30.1 MWh/yr and we do have an EV and a pool. Thanks for your videos, I have used them as I struggle through these damn computer things.
i had a quote for solor on my house here in Canada it would have came with a generator so if the power went out we still have power not to say we would have been off the grid 100% 20K ouch, also it would give back to the grid; i really want this setup at this house just can't afford it :(
I'm just happy I can buy 2 24V batteries for less than 1000 euros here. That's 5 KW of storage. And solar panels? Last I checked 30 Canadian Solar 420 watt panels were 2000 - 2500 euros. That's around 12 KW worth of solar panels. Happy to know the cost is nowhere near what's in the States.
I'm curious, when they sell you batteries for your setup, are they all new batteries and what size are they? I'm wondering if it would be worth looking at recycled EV batteries for this purpose and how that would affect the price. Simply asking because sincerely, if I was going to buy a solar setup and not have the ability to use it during power outages, I'd be kinda mad.
You used 30243 kWh for the year. You imported 15521 kWh, which means the rest is 14722 of your own generated solar power that you have used. In other words, if you didn't have solar panels your imported kWh would be an additional 14722 kWh = $2340. So your savings are understated by $2340.
I'm in the northeast where the math works out a bit differently... but it's getting closer. Don't know if you want to get into this, but did you check with your insurance company? If so was there a cost increase there? And... did you get any push back from neighbors (I have a few who are vocally opposed to how they look)?
Nah no word from insurance. As for the neighbors it wasn't a big deal, they're all chill and there are quite a few houses in the neighborhood with solar already.
@@RaidOwlI’m 15 minutes from Downtown Houston, and our HOA had a ban on solar panels. However, state laws changed recently, limiting the power HOA’s have. Among a number of other things, an HOA can no longer keep you from installing solar panels.
What is the life expectancy of the solar cells and replacement cost? That has to be factored into your equation. Breaking even at 20.5 years and I don't think the solar cells will last that long. As I understand it, they degrade and produce less as they age. It's still the thing to do though. As time goes on, the technology should improve, the cost decrease and the electric rates will only rise.
@@RaidOwl Yep most are guaranteed at 25 - 30 years for 80% of original capacity. In the meantime the efficiency and longevity of the products are improving every year. The modern panels are significantly more efficient and also much cheaper than what they were 20 years ago. By the time your performance has degraded 20% you will want to upgrade anyway and the old panels well have already easily paid for themselves.
Replacement cost will be less. Its a manufactured good. The more you make of something? The cheaper it gets to make more of it. Cost of solar in 1975 was around $78/watt. Today if you buy it by the pallet direct? You are looking at less than 35 cents/watt. And in 25 years when you need to replace it? Is likely to be 70-80% cheaper. As it is today the cost to manufacture solar in China? Is 9.2 cents a watt. Which is why the US is putting a tariff on it now. They cannot compete.
Would you need huge batteries?..... Maybe you need just enough to keep your fridge/freezer and a small portion of you AC running? (apparently it gets hot hot in your part of the world.) After all you computers are on an UPS and will gracefully shut down. And if it wasn't grid tied you could still keep everything else running up until the sun falls out of the sky or explodes.... which ever comes first
This video is not the flex you think it is. Those of us who have been running grid tied solar with batteries for years are giggling at this. I produce more kWh than I consume, get money back from power company every year and when the grid goes down my lights don’t even blink. With power at $0.40+ per kWh ROI was 5 years. You paid all that money, still have an electric bill and are screwed when the grid goes down. Good luck with that.
@@RaidOwl Love your videos. As soon as I saw the interconnection map I figured you had some experience at a power utility or regulator. I work IT and just moved into the power utility realm after many years in medical and I'm having a blast. HCI, Networking, CIP standards. It great. Learning a lot more about power too.
He's in Houston, TX - Swamps all over, 30 deg C and 95% Humid. You need to run the Airconditioning IF you want to stay sane, and keep your Clothes and Home from getting Moldy
Sorry for asking out of ignorance: You have an after tax break-even on the system in about 20 years (32910÷1600=20.5). But how long does the system reasonably last? So if it the panels + equip last 20 years you will need to replace the system, leaving you back in the hole for another 20 years. On the plus side, tech can improve in 20 years and you have a good chunk of independence. On the negative side, tax incentives can be retracted, so you may need to pay more in the future. Plus you did a ton of work and research to set this up, and that's not free. I'm not trying to do a 'gotcha', I've been doing the same math myself and I see it working in scenarios with larger m^2 where you get to profit from one system, but this way it seems like a small land owner may be better off just plugging in and moving on. Thank you for the video and sharing your example!
If I had a crystal ball I'd be able to provide the exact choice everyone should make. All I wanted to do was share my experience. I'm not trying to sell the idea of solar to anyone haha.
I actually have a similar system (17.4kW silfab panels with Enphase micro inverters and combiner box) and warranty on the panels is 25 years, 20 on the combiner box. Given no change in price it’s still a good amount of time after breakeven point.
@@Cadwallion Thanks for the example. Essentially we are talking about paying off the old investment, right about when we need to service or buy new infrastructure.
@@RaidOwl I was hoping for a more fun in our first interaction :) I think you could've min/maxed your system with less solar and more batteries, using something like the ecoflow smart panel couple of delta pros or ultras. $43k just seems way too much for the panels and labour.
IMO solar is only worth it if you can get a return in 10 years or have a terrible grid. I really want solar but the quotes I've gotten are ridiculous. From what I can tell they are quoting me $30k for labor and installing $15k worth of parts.
Why 10 years? If they pay for themselves in 15 years and you don't replace them for 20-25 years you are getting at least 5 years of profit from them. I look at it as retirement planning. I want to fix my costs as much as possible for when I am on a fixed income. If you are selling the house soon that is a real consideration but if it is your forever home why not?
@@tedcalouri2694 you also need to factor in degradation, maintenance, and repairs. Plus I don't know what it is like for solar but I imagine like with any tech product they eventually stop supporting the hardware. What happens 15 years from now if you can't get the inverters and control circuitry when something breaks?
@@computersales Like he said the products have warranties. I have monitoring and production data for each panel and micro inverter so I know if their is a problem. I check my production daily.
@@tedcalouri2694 yup and those warranties are only as good as the company. I have a BFG 1000W PSU that came with a lifetime warranty. Not sure how I will get that honored if it fails. 🤔
I’m in South Central Texas and mine is 3,100KW per month in the dead of summer and 2100 average(during the winters we do go down to a little above 1000KW per month), but then I’m a multigenerational of 7 people home.
Can your generator power your entire home - including your home lab - when the grid is down? BTW, kudos for your side-eye to the nativist xenophobes and ammo-sexuals, as well as for calling the petro propagandists dumbasses. 🙂
40,000 dollars just to be screwed during a power outage... You're better off buying a gas powered generator and modifying it to run off of alcohol or something. At least you'll be able to power your home lol
My power bill went from $100 - $350 a month (time of year dependent) pre solar to $13-$120 a month with a relatively small solar system. Maybe monthly expenses are not a concern for you but it is for me and I suspect for many others too. I am not in a position to purchase a big battery wall either but I did pickup a couple of Jackeries to plug the basics like the fridge into for the limited amount of time a storm knocks out power around here.
One of my goals is to have a homelab/homeserver setul that can run entirely on just a cheap solar setup.
I guess you did not realize that you can get LFP rack mount batteries today for $1200/5Kwh. With full certification for residential use. People are looking at these fancy smancy batteries that look like art and not looking at the workhorse segments of storage. And Hybrid inverters today that are capable of "Islanding" are less than $4k for a whole house unit capable of 8kw/16kw surge on native split-phase. DC may be a little bit less efficient, but a lot easier and cheaper to manage storage with. Especially now that we have these AIO inverter/charge controllers from Luxpower and others in the market. Gets rid of all the extra things that add to the cost of a DC system normally.
Just put a bunch of these in at work, basically half a rack of them, and damn they are nice. they only provide power to the 5 circuits we need to always have power, and it gives us about 24 hours of run time, not a monster server room, so nice now when the weather causes our power to blink for 15 to 20 minutes, it does not cause the servers and their ups to panic over it.
@@dagamore Ive got 30kwh worth of the older EG4's. 14kw solar and 4kw worth of wind. Powers everything. Even the heat pump. The only time the generator has run? I was sick in bed and didn't want to get the snow off the panels. It was cheaper in my case to go off grid than they wanted to charge me to pull wire 300ft into my property from the grid.
Every year that distance is shrinking. In ten years its likely to be cheaper to be self sufficient than it is to merely pay the services charges for the pleasure of being connected to the grid, before the cost of energy is added to the equation...
Your break even time will go down . I have had my 6.7 KW solar system for 2.5 years and during that time my local utility raised their rates. This unfortunately means my bill is a more than it used to be but it also means the value of every watt I produce has increased in value. I live in an area with tiered usage so the 1st MW a month is at one rate then the rate per watt goes up when you hit the second tier. This is harder to cost calculate but it does mean smaller systems are still cost effective. They won't prevent you from having a bill but it will keep most if not all of what you use in the lowest cost tier.
"I have terrible impulse control and I think it's cool" The exact reason why I got solar.... Well that and the whole environmental thing. 🤜🤛
Lets say you put $30,000 into a 10% return index fund you'd make $3,000 your first year and more than that each subsequent year due to compound returns. The sad reality of solar for places that already have low energy costs (15 cents per kwh is low compared to where I live where it's 36 cents) is that it doesn't pay to get it vs just putting the same money into an index fund.
Where I live, our solar setup (yes I do have solar with a three-phase battery backup system from Sigenergy, not at all a hater by any stretch!) will pay for itself in 6.5 years but my investment fund will actually outperform the returns we get on our solar install aswell which is kind of a downer in a money sense, but I'm happy to be reducing our carbon footprint and run my home lab off 100% clean energy.
Lol yeah there is a reason I didn’t say “solar is a great financial investment” in the video 😅
@@RaidOwl if you sign plan in early spring or late fall and time it with natural gas prices in Houston you can get a lot cheaper. I'm at 11.4c kwh for 3 years. I do want to get a hybrid inverter that can support solar, battery, and generator like solarks or eg4. Plus timing with a roof replacement and tax credits it works out ok. I think building the battery system up and utilizing the 9pm to 9am rate and gaming that with batteries makes more sense though.
in19,5 years, when you are raking in the dough, I expec you to buy me a beer.
My neighbor just got solar, I am so friggin jealous. It's in the future plans though! I like the idea of the whole house load balancing inverters using the grid & batteries as a backup.
Get you some EG4 14.3KW Wall Mount batteries for $3300 instead of paying 18K for and enphase 15KW setup. That's crazy.
Thanks for the update! We have a 8.8kW Tesla system with a PowerWall & frickin’ love it. Solar is just so easy if you’re willing to accept it as a long term investment.
Need to get Anker or EcoFlow to step in and get the entire house on battery.
I got two Ecoflow Delta Pro batteries and two Ecoflow Smart Home Panels last year.
Save yourself the time and hassle and skip these. They are a pain in the ass to get working properly, the lights in my house flicker when running on battery, the way the scheduling system works in buggy and convoluted, etc.
I tried to save some money compared to a proper battery system and instead ended up with a more complicated and less reliable system. Yes it was cheaper but no way is it worth the savings.
why, you want him to have battery backup for 3 minutes? did you see the amount of power this guy is using and that massive house? get a real battery system like the eg4 server batteries. far cheaper and better
@@ljsmith197878 lol that’s a good point. They are the brand that has rackmount batteries right?
1:57 Reason why I really like this channel.
One thing I never thought about before my job transferred me out of Texas was that several states don't give you an option of your electricity provider. You're stuck with whoever the state chooses. Just something to consider for those considering solar.
Thanks for an honest review. In an unscientific view of your roof and panels, I’d say you should expand your coverage to meet the size of your home. The economics of my installation in RI was much better at 7-8 years on the solar with net metering (credits issued no cash) and about 10-11 years on the battery since the utility will buy battery access at a premium and pay me each season.
Thanks for sharing your experience with solar. It looks like you’ve got time of day usage data too, which is both important to know where electricity is used and frustrating when you know they’ll be complicated to improve. If you’ve got a thermal camera, it can help to see missing insulation and sources of heat or cold that may be easy to fix.
Electricity bills go only one way - UP. Besides, in an Emergency you could disconnect from a dead Grid and just power your own Home (some rewiring needed)
In Arizona, I opted for solar. It doesn't cover my needs when AC is crazy. But taken over the interval of one year I am neutral or plus. Sucks that the electric company doesn't do that for metering. But it has significantly reduced my bill (credit for winter months) and I feel good about helping the grid and the carbon footprint. I fear the electric companies will continue to price in residential solar to their models and we will be "expected" to perform and no cost savings will be passed down
i had planned to invest in solar a few months ago but when i found out the costs and the life of the battery, I opened a fixed deposit at my bank for a 7% annual return, this is actually more profiting than solar now😄
Good idea
Cheap and stupid are a dangerous combination.
Really good presentation. You didn't specifically state it but you don't pay taxes on the self generated electricity so you should calculate that as additional net savings.
I'm in Arizona on SRP service. I installed panels 14 years ago targetting 56% of my need, and locked into the basic plan. I crossed the payoff point at 13.4 years. For me they pay out any credit at the end of May, at the lower winter rate. It resultes in roughly $5 credit on my bill. I back calculate the effective cost of electricity each month and the rate didnt change for 10 years. the rate has significantly jumped the past couple of years so my return value is also increased.
Nice one Owl, cool setup!
Was the 100k quote a Tesla with a car thrown in? I hear they are down the road now.
Nah it was some door to door salesman that wouldn’t give me a price for like 20 min before I nearly kicked him out.
After watching your video. I learned one thing for sure america is expensive as heck. Where i live 16 kw on grid system costs us no more then 6000usd and thats without any government incentive
I currently have solar panels, but no batteries. We simply wouldn't produce enough excess energy with our panels to warrant the battery cost. Sadly part of our roof never gets sun. But even if we did get enough to charge the batteries, the cost of the batteries still wouldn't make sense. That's because our power plan only charges those super high rates 4 months during the summer. Other 8 months the power is relatively cheap when compared to the cost of the batteries. I even looked at some of Anker's solutions. They were cheaper, when on sale, with a payoff of around 12-14 yrs doing basic arbitrage using night rates to charge them. Not terrible.
If you live somewhere with a lot of outages, that's when batteries really get their value.
Solar doesn't pay for itself quickly, but with energy costs rising it'll go quicker and quicker. The real benefit is increased quality of life due to increased energy use and the solar should pay for itself well when selling your house - around here nobody wants to buy a new house without solar. It's pretty much standard to include a solar geyser and starting solar system in new developments. That said I'm in one of the top countries for solar coverage per year.
Hi, may I also suggest to add a heat pump?
Or is it too much?
What happens in the event of extreme weather like Texas had that one year, where it froze cables? Can solar panels overheat? Basic questions, I know. Just being lazy.
i said this on your other video and the point still stands. solar without batteries seems like a dumb idea. you already spent $43,000, a bit more for batteries is a no brainer. electricity companies are hiking rates like crazy and making grid tied systems less affordable. adding batteries makes you less dependant on them and it can save machines in your home from sudden power cuts. also the convenience of not having to go outside and plug in the generator then turn everyting back on again. they could also cut that 20 years pay off time down to. rich people paying $43,000 but trying to save $15,000 when that $15,000 will save them more money in the future.
I never claimed it was a great financial investment
@@RaidOwl I love your responses dude. This is part of why I keep watching to because you respond and interact. It’s also always good to watch people who you may disagree with on some stuff. Love it.
Cheap and stupid are a dangerous combination. It's a theme around here.
Is 44K the normal price for this setup in texas? A 15KWp setup with installation costs ~10-15k here in germany.
Yeah I'd say my price was pretty average. I've seen some cheaper quotes since then but also some way higher ones.
I loooooooove ❤ your map with Québec on it! I come from there and we have hydroelectricity! 😊
oof, that's expensive. I have friends that have installed slightly smaller systems, ~10kwh, those were $10-13k. This is in Sweden though so incentives and so on are different and electricity prices are higher.
Will you break even before something breaks is the real question
🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Did you look at your historical electrical consumption and compared it to your current MWh billed to see if you have captured all of the benefit of your solar array? We have a 17.4 kW system with battery backup and ROI for us is 14 years assuming there is NO increase in electrical costs. So I am skeptical that your system ROI is 20 years. We are in NC where the current cost of energy is about $0.11/kWh which does not include all of the connection and other fees of about $30/month. Currently we consume 30.1 MWh/yr and we do have an EV and a pool. Thanks for your videos, I have used them as I struggle through these damn computer things.
i had a quote for solor on my house here in Canada it would have came with a generator so if the power went out we still have power not to say we would have been off the grid 100% 20K ouch, also it would give back to the grid; i really want this setup at this house just can't afford it :(
I'm just happy I can buy 2 24V batteries for less than 1000 euros here. That's 5 KW of storage. And solar panels? Last I checked 30 Canadian Solar 420 watt panels were 2000 - 2500 euros. That's around 12 KW worth of solar panels. Happy to know the cost is nowhere near what's in the States.
A good bit of the cost is the installation
Does the solar inverter last 20 years too?
Over 20 years for break-even seems pretty long. What is the expected life expectancy of your panels?
30 years
I'm curious, when they sell you batteries for your setup, are they all new batteries and what size are they?
I'm wondering if it would be worth looking at recycled EV batteries for this purpose and how that would affect the price.
Simply asking because sincerely, if I was going to buy a solar setup and not have the ability to use it during power outages, I'd be kinda mad.
20 years, no way !
You used 30243 kWh for the year. You imported 15521 kWh, which means the rest is 14722 of your own generated solar power that you have used.
In other words, if you didn't have solar panels your imported kWh would be an additional 14722 kWh = $2340.
So your savings are understated by $2340.
No I used 30243 total. That’s imported and generated.
@@RaidOwl So you used 15521 kWh imported and 14722 kWh generated power = total usage of 30243?
What is that generated power worth to you?
I'm in the northeast where the math works out a bit differently... but it's getting closer. Don't know if you want to get into this, but did you check with your insurance company? If so was there a cost increase there? And... did you get any push back from neighbors (I have a few who are vocally opposed to how they look)?
Nah no word from insurance. As for the neighbors it wasn't a big deal, they're all chill and there are quite a few houses in the neighborhood with solar already.
@@RaidOwlI’m 15 minutes from
Downtown Houston, and our HOA had a ban on solar panels. However, state laws changed recently, limiting the power HOA’s have. Among a number of other things, an HOA can no longer keep you from installing solar panels.
If this can get down to a 5-10 year return, solar will really explode.
What is the life expectancy of the solar cells and replacement cost? That has to be factored into your equation. Breaking even at 20.5 years and I don't think the solar cells will last that long. As I understand it, they degrade and produce less as they age. It's still the thing to do though. As time goes on, the technology should improve, the cost decrease and the electric rates will only rise.
I’d have to double check the warranty but I’m fairly certain they’re guaranteed to output at least 80% at 30 years
@@RaidOwl Yep most are guaranteed at 25 - 30 years for 80% of original capacity. In the meantime the efficiency and longevity of the products are improving every year. The modern panels are significantly more efficient and also much cheaper than what they were 20 years ago. By the time your performance has degraded 20% you will want to upgrade anyway and the old panels well have already easily paid for themselves.
Replacement cost will be less. Its a manufactured good. The more you make of something? The cheaper it gets to make more of it. Cost of solar in 1975 was around $78/watt. Today if you buy it by the pallet direct? You are looking at less than 35 cents/watt. And in 25 years when you need to replace it? Is likely to be 70-80% cheaper. As it is today the cost to manufacture solar in China? Is 9.2 cents a watt. Which is why the US is putting a tariff on it now. They cannot compete.
Would you need huge batteries?.....
Maybe you need just enough to keep your fridge/freezer and a small portion of you AC running? (apparently it gets hot hot in your part of the world.)
After all you computers are on an UPS and will gracefully shut down.
And if it wasn't grid tied you could still keep everything else running up until the sun falls out of the sky or explodes.... which ever comes first
Ehhh maybe. It’s still so expensive vs a gas generator for emergencies.
A small backup power supply to keep the essentials going for a few extra hours during an outage is all you really need
This video is not the flex you think it is. Those of us who have been running grid tied solar with batteries for years are giggling at this. I produce more kWh than I consume, get money back from power company every year and when the grid goes down my lights don’t even blink. With power at $0.40+ per kWh ROI was 5 years. You paid all that money, still have an electric bill and are screwed when the grid goes down. Good luck with that.
I never said it was a flex you dipshit lol
@@RaidOwl you do you. We will keep laughing at you.
Lol go for it. You don’t even have a real username
@@RaidOwl Ok Mr RaidOwl. My friends in Austin TX got a real kick out of your video.
Fantastic. That’s for helping out the channel :)
You haven't added in the cost of replacing panels as they only last at my most 10 years. Your break even is way longer
They’re under warranty for 30 years
16.6kW is not real power, just the upper power limit, that you're guaranteed to never exceed
Yes
$100K for this system is a "we have more work than we know what to do with, go away" price.
He came and knocked on my door to give me that price 😅
@@RaidOwl ok WOW maybe not then?!
NERC CIP?????
Yessir. RC level
@@RaidOwl Love your videos. As soon as I saw the interconnection map I figured you had some experience at a power utility or regulator. I work IT and just moved into the power utility realm after many years in medical and I'm having a blast. HCI, Networking, CIP standards. It great. Learning a lot more about power too.
1500kwh a month on average? Wow, households in europe use about 3500 kwh a year….
He's in Houston, TX - Swamps all over, 30 deg C and 95% Humid. You need to run the Airconditioning IF you want to stay sane, and keep your Clothes and Home from getting Moldy
30k without batteries after rax incentives? Still too expensive.
Won’t argue with that
Assuming panels last 25 years, 40k doesn't seem that bad in 25 years
Sorry for asking out of ignorance:
You have an after tax break-even on the system in about 20 years (32910÷1600=20.5).
But how long does the system reasonably last? So if it the panels + equip last 20 years you will need to replace the system, leaving you back in the hole for another 20 years.
On the plus side, tech can improve in 20 years and you have a good chunk of independence.
On the negative side, tax incentives can be retracted, so you may need to pay more in the future.
Plus you did a ton of work and research to set this up, and that's not free.
I'm not trying to do a 'gotcha', I've been doing the same math myself and I see it working in scenarios with larger m^2 where you get to profit from one system, but this way it seems like a small land owner may be better off just plugging in and moving on.
Thank you for the video and sharing your example!
If I had a crystal ball I'd be able to provide the exact choice everyone should make. All I wanted to do was share my experience. I'm not trying to sell the idea of solar to anyone haha.
@@RaidOwl Agreed, thanks again!
I actually have a similar system (17.4kW silfab panels with Enphase micro inverters and combiner box) and warranty on the panels is 25 years, 20 on the combiner box. Given no change in price it’s still a good amount of time after breakeven point.
@@Cadwallion Thanks for the example. Essentially we are talking about paying off the old investment, right about when we need to service or buy new infrastructure.
Solar is not worth it unless you DIY and add batteries. Just my experience, even in Florida. I imagine it makes less sense up north
I looked into DIY then realized it would take me a year to DI
$43k seems like a rip off no matter how you put it
Ok
@@RaidOwl I was hoping for a more fun in our first interaction :) I think you could've min/maxed your system with less solar and more batteries, using something like the ecoflow smart panel couple of delta pros or ultras. $43k just seems way too much for the panels and labour.
@@monstercameronyeah
IMO solar is only worth it if you can get a return in 10 years or have a terrible grid. I really want solar but the quotes I've gotten are ridiculous. From what I can tell they are quoting me $30k for labor and installing $15k worth of parts.
Why 10 years? If they pay for themselves in 15 years and you don't replace them for 20-25 years you are getting at least 5 years of profit from them. I look at it as retirement planning. I want to fix my costs as much as possible for when I am on a fixed income. If you are selling the house soon that is a real consideration but if it is your forever home why not?
@@tedcalouri2694 you also need to factor in degradation, maintenance, and repairs. Plus I don't know what it is like for solar but I imagine like with any tech product they eventually stop supporting the hardware. What happens 15 years from now if you can't get the inverters and control circuitry when something breaks?
@@computersales Like he said the products have warranties. I have monitoring and production data for each panel and micro inverter so I know if their is a problem. I check my production daily.
@@tedcalouri2694 yup and those warranties are only as good as the company. I have a BFG 1000W PSU that came with a lifetime warranty. Not sure how I will get that honored if it fails. 🤔
2000KW per month? You are supplying half the city? That's 4 months for me! 4 people, highbtech stuff.. omg😮😂
I can't imaging air conditioning cost in TX during the summer.
And homelabs tend to drink power like a fish...
I’m in South Central Texas and mine is 3,100KW per month in the dead of summer and 2100 average(during the winters we do go down to a little above 1000KW per month), but then I’m a multigenerational of 7 people home.
GG’s 43K
GG go next
Yee-Haw partner!
🤠🤠🤠
Can your generator power your entire home - including your home lab - when the grid is down?
BTW, kudos for your side-eye to the nativist xenophobes and ammo-sexuals, as well as for calling the petro propagandists dumbasses. 🙂
Yep, the generator will do the A/C, fridge, tv, internet, and home lab essentials
@@RaidOwl - Cool!
But you don’t get it… one more panel.. you just need one more panel.. next one and you’ll be off the grid!!! ONE MORE PANEL!!
It sounds cool, but over here even the hillbilliest of hillbillies is paying at msot 70€ a year
Hell yeah 💪🏼
40,000 dollars just to be screwed during a power outage...
You're better off buying a gas powered generator and modifying it to run off of alcohol or something. At least you'll be able to power your home lol
He said he has both
Did you watch the video? Lol
My power bill went from $100 - $350 a month (time of year dependent) pre solar to $13-$120 a month with a relatively small solar system. Maybe monthly expenses are not a concern for you but it is for me and I suspect for many others too. I am not in a position to purchase a big battery wall either but I did pickup a couple of Jackeries to plug the basics like the fridge into for the limited amount of time a storm knocks out power around here.
hahahaha after 20 years that setup is dead, so 0 dollar saved 🤣🤣🤣
Dang if only there was a 30 year warranty everything...
The moment you break even the panels needs to be replaced 🙄
Idk check back in 20 years
I spend 1700KW of electricity and pay $13.53 per month, and yes, I live in Russia in the city of Moscow
So your suggestion is instead of buying solar panels we should move to Russia?
Yeah I think I'm good on living in the swamps of Muscovia.