As a Ricoh shooter I'm not concerned about the lack of EVF at all. I live in México which is arguably pretty intensely sunny, and I've never had an issue composing off an LCD. For me, the feature I would have preferred would either be a nicer E Shutter like in the Z9, or honestly a better pancake lens on release, something like the Nikon Z/Canon RF 28f2.8. Last resort: an official L to M adapter, properly calibrated for accurate infinity.
60MP sensor like in the M11 so I could use my APS-C L lenses and still have around 24MP. Full-frame is nice but sometimes I wasn’t to use smaller L lenses from my Leica CL.
The thing that remains interesting about the S9 to me is I use m4/3 exclusively for video. Given that use case, lacking a mechanical shutter, hot shoe and EVF is a non-issue, and the S9 does have a mic connection. I’m considering upgrading to L-mount and was considering an S5ii, but the S9 is interesting because of its small size.
As somebody that has BOTH, the S5ii and the S9...I could easily do a project on the S9, been shooting video on it already BUT.... The S5ii, for somebody that hasn't been in Panasonic a while, would be the better buy. Treat the S9 as a passion project, or the DESSERT after a really good dinner. Treat the S5ii as the dinner. Go on Amazon and get a used / LIKE NEW S5ii for $1400 - $1500, you won't regret it.
Well, no, the form factor is entirely different. The S5 iix is what I went for as my main digital camera, but coming from a Leica M6 it’s quite big and unwieldy. I appreciate the manual focusing aids and it works well for taking pictures, but a smaller FF camera would be nice.
@@michaelp1625 Actually, not at all! You have to keep in mind that a tiny little Olympus Pen E-PL8 has mechanical shutter, EVF, hot shoe and IBIS in a cute little MFT body. These cameras just have a different shutter design by the way they sound - leaf shutter I believe. I have an Olympus XA from 1979 with leaf shutter and flash which shoots 35 mm film. It's an absolutely tiny camera, smaller even than the digital Pens because Olympus specialised in miniaturisation. No shutter → no flash sync → no hot shoe → no EVF. The omissions on the S9 are definitely a cost cutting measure and a way to get the S9 on the market without finishing R&D properly because they needed more time to re-design the shutter. That's why they caught so much heat for it - everyone who knows a little about camera design knows that leaving it out was a choice and not a technical limitation (beyond miniaturisation expertise perhaps). To me it seems like a half baked design so far. My guess is that the S9 II will probably have a shutter because photographers make up a big share of people who would buy a FF camera in this day and age. Right now it isn't even quite clear what the target audience is for this camera. They alienated a lot of the content creators with it and who else would buy a full frame camera without an EVF?
It's a shame that the EVF was excluded. Unfortunately, the A7C2 seems to be a better choice. Leaving out the external EVF option is a really stupid decision.
Thanks for the video. How was the sharpness & color smearing on the edges of the image? Just wondering the S9 can handle the steep light ray angles of wide angle M lenses.
Wonder what footage looks like with adapted vintage canon fd lenses. I have a slew of those as well as a few favorite nikon F lenses. Which brings a question. Does this camera have an asp-c mode for adapting asp-c lenses?
Great review, I think this makes a lot of sense for people like yourself who already have Leica Lenses lying around. I think for the beginner photographers, there are several very compact, fast, and affordable manual lenses out there for the L-mount system. I did however recently recommend a friend to check out the S9 because he recently dusted off his old film camera which he has plenty of lenses for but is frustrated with the cost of film. I explained that he can easily adapt his old SLR lenses to the S9 and as soon as he has shot 1500 pictures, he can easily justify the cost of the camera.
Helpful review! I just got an S9 and while i love it, the menu system is ind numbingly so bad it's disturbing! Can anyone tell me how on earth to set the Suto focus button to magnify assist? I so want to want to love this camera and learn the menus but counter intuitive hardly touches how absurdly not intuitive they are..800 page manual!
Oh man, it took me forever to figure that out too. Legitimately probably 20 minutes of accidentally passing over it over and over. Wish I remembered where! I’ll try to check back tomorrow and I have it around
I have a little question. I have that 40mm too and I was wondering how u changed out the focus tab to that one. My one has the slightly annoying pinch one
I was waiting on this to see if it might make sense for me to get the S9 as a small M mount body. I think I still need an EVF and mechanical shutter, and my A7C does that nicely, just that I don’t like the UI and the SOOC jpegs ain’t great from the Sony. I’m keen on the Realtime LUTs for a quick and easy shooting body.
I challenge you to use the S9 w/ the "Leica Monochrome Black and White profile" that is already set (licensed) for usage w/ the S9. IMO it gets even closer to the look you speak of, without using some created LUT. Leica dialed it in for Lumix especially, looks pretty cool. The S9 is going to do NUMBERS once people get a hold of it + the Lumix Lab app.
@@benjhaisch For sure.. And it pertains to several different factors, obvs. Camera body + Leica glass + how that system renders the film being shot, specs and capabilities of the camera, etc etc.. But what I was getting at was...Since the year 2000, Leica and Lumix have been in cahoots...and a lot of things are shared so to speak. The S9, at the moment.. is the only Lumix camera that has an OFFICIAL "Leica Monochrome B&W" look / lut IN it, officially from Leica. Try it lol.
I see this compact little full frame with its LUT workflow capability will be lots of fun. All my LUTs and Color grading on capture one but being able to work them into the field sounds great. Being able to rig up a M lenses into a psuedoleica is icing on the cake. I think Panasonic did a poor job marketing this product, also they need to release more native compact lenses. If I can fit that EF 2.8 autofocus 40mm on my 1dmk3 or 5dmk4 they can do it also, i feel they dropped the ball on that.
No mention of whether or not the s9 has any issues with corner smearing or color cast? Its sort of implied in the video that the Sony, Nikon, and Leica are all equally good with Leica M lenses, but the zf is definitely noticeably better than any of the Sony bodies... And historically Lumix cameras haven't been great either. The gold standard is how they perform on M, SL, and even the sigma fp- would have been good to have a few sentences on how the s9 compares in that regard.
Oh, c’mon. I was waiting for covering the question of moderate to superwide lenses usage on this cam in terms of color shading and smearing in corners all the way. Instead the entire clip is about only one 40mm 🤦♂️
Thank you for that video. It’s good to see how this could work. It seems too much of a compromise for my needs but I can see that it’s an option. I think the lacking EVF is the dealbreaker for me.
I could live without an EVF (unfortunately) and I wouldn't care for a hotshoe on this form factor, but the lack of a mechanical shutter and the joystick is an absolute deal breaker for me. Fortunately there's still room for a "S7", but Panasonic can't really release new cameras every day like Sony does and they have more urgent matters with the S1 upgrades, so I guess I'll have to wait patiently.
Companies need to actually listen to their users! This camera was conceived in a boardroom and it shows. Take the form factor and aesthetics of a nice, compact photo camera, but gut all of the useful components to make it essentially a full frame iPhone with worse photo readout. I don’t want to dump on this camera because it makes sense to add this in the lineup, but these manufacturers don’t workshop these cameras with real photographers. Content creators that don’t need top of the line specs could easily make do with micro 4/3. A full frame body like this NEEDS an EVF and a shutter. It doesn’t even have to be the fastest shutter speed. I want to see photo centered cameras make a come back. These companies have stopped trying to innovate in that department so they could easily make a variant that has all of these things so that we can finally have what we want. Seeing a non video centric camera like the X100 sellout over and over should be a clear indication that people still prioritize taking pictures.
Yes!! Global shutter readout (faster then the S9) and a 'standard' readout of the sensor. Both without a mechanical shutter. That makes them different in purpose! The S9 is a content creator camera and every body want to use them in a sports arena and there isn't it made for!! Social media-focused workflow!!
While I get the justification of them omitting certain features, Nikon Z5 and Canon R8 comes with all the extra hardware, and they’re cheaper. So it can be done.
Honestly, my Leica TL2 is the best option to use M lenses in a very smart and discrete manner. In case I need it I can use an additional EVF In case I need I can use a flash There is a mechanical shutter and an internal memory in case Inforget my SD card… And this APSC Sensor is soooo nice I’m a fan of Lumix S bodies S1 S1R and S5iiX are in my bag but for sure the S9 is not offering what I need as a photographer
From a enthuasist photographer perspective this isn't a camera tha Panasonic had intended its audience for. Far too many compromises for little value to photographers
@@benjhaisch So it is mainly adressed to "pro", meaning people making money out of their work....a niche for a new breed of customers, just invented, in summary.
@@chengo51 it’s all a bit fluid at points, but for me, my “pro” work is the paid stuff for/from clients. The “content creator” stuff are things that I make for others to sort of consume online. Again, a bit of a blurred line at times, but that’s how I make the distinction.
@@benjhaischthey messed up if they are marketing this as a working pro camera. Many other products address that need. This seems to fit the “I want to leave the work truck at home” and carry something small and nimble but with a nice full frame sensor and a more flexible frictionless image output fun camera. Ie I do not want to be sitting in front of my 5K+ workstation with a calibrated monitor working on RAW images and spending time grading etc.. I missed out on the hype and drama and ordered one today. I could really see myself enjoying this as my daily carry definitely will be superior to using my iPhone 😂
If you could choose one feature to add to this camera, which would it be? For me, it’d be an EVF.
If it had an EVF id probably swap it for my X100vi …
Mechanical shutter. The LED banding is a pain
@Revan89 have you had issues with it on the S9? I haven’t yet
As a Ricoh shooter I'm not concerned about the lack of EVF at all. I live in México which is arguably pretty intensely sunny, and I've never had an issue composing off an LCD.
For me, the feature I would have preferred would either be a nicer E Shutter like in the Z9, or honestly a better pancake lens on release, something like the Nikon Z/Canon RF 28f2.8. Last resort: an official L to M adapter, properly calibrated for accurate infinity.
60MP sensor like in the M11 so I could use my APS-C L lenses and still have around 24MP. Full-frame is nice but sometimes I wasn’t to use smaller L lenses from my Leica CL.
The thing that remains interesting about the S9 to me is I use m4/3 exclusively for video. Given that use case, lacking a mechanical shutter, hot shoe and EVF is a non-issue, and the S9 does have a mic connection. I’m considering upgrading to L-mount and was considering an S5ii, but the S9 is interesting because of its small size.
As somebody that has BOTH, the S5ii and the S9...I could easily do a project on the S9, been shooting video on it already BUT.... The S5ii, for somebody that hasn't been in Panasonic a while, would be the better buy. Treat the S9 as a passion project, or the DESSERT after a really good dinner. Treat the S5ii as the dinner. Go on Amazon and get a used / LIKE NEW S5ii for $1400 - $1500, you won't regret it.
that green is amazing.... and i love this use-case. I had a digital CL for the longest time to turn it into a baby-M
now i can do that with the S9 😍
If Panasonic updates this to include a mechanical shutter, hot shoe and EVF, it would be an instant buy for me precisely for this application.
Good news they have that already, it's the S5II
Well, no, the form factor is entirely different. The S5 iix is what I went for as my main digital camera, but coming from a Leica M6 it’s quite big and unwieldy. I appreciate the manual focusing aids and it works well for taking pictures, but a smaller FF camera would be nice.
@@LillySchwartzbut that’s why they could achieve the form factor 🤣
@@michaelp1625 Actually, not at all! You have to keep in mind that a tiny little Olympus Pen E-PL8 has mechanical shutter, EVF, hot shoe and IBIS in a cute little MFT body. These cameras just have a different shutter design by the way they sound - leaf shutter I believe. I have an Olympus XA from 1979 with leaf shutter and flash which shoots 35 mm film. It's an absolutely tiny camera, smaller even than the digital Pens because Olympus specialised in miniaturisation. No shutter → no flash sync → no hot shoe → no EVF. The omissions on the S9 are definitely a cost cutting measure and a way to get the S9 on the market without finishing R&D properly because they needed more time to re-design the shutter. That's why they caught so much heat for it - everyone who knows a little about camera design knows that leaving it out was a choice and not a technical limitation (beyond miniaturisation expertise perhaps). To me it seems like a half baked design so far. My guess is that the S9 II will probably have a shutter because photographers make up a big share of people who would buy a FF camera in this day and age. Right now it isn't even quite clear what the target audience is for this camera. They alienated a lot of the content creators with it and who else would buy a full frame camera without an EVF?
It's a shame that the EVF was excluded. Unfortunately, the A7C2 seems to be a better choice.
Leaving out the external EVF option is a really stupid decision.
Also leaving out the mechanical shutter
@@CianMcsweeney and a joystick
Don’t buy it.
a7c2 still top of my list i reckon
Maybe Lumix S7 in the future? 👀
Thanks for the video. How was the sharpness & color smearing on the edges of the image? Just wondering the S9 can handle the steep light ray angles of wide angle M lenses.
Super helpful man. I think there are a lot of us looking for whatever is closest to a digital M without spending digital M money.
Leica DLux 8 review upcoming? 🙏🏼❤️🙏🏼
What a sexy camera...just ordered mine, same color...those shots at 0:40 look soooo GOOD! Have you seen the leather housing by Small Rig?
We need L mount Techart adapter
I have no idea why they haven’t released one yet. If they were to release this for L-Mount then it would be an instant buy.
It’s only recently that L mount cameras started having Phase Detect which is required by the Techart adapter.
@@말랑말랑멍몽이 exactly. If they come out with adapter. I will buy one. Hahahah
I don't get why some people spend such much time complaining about a Camera they never intend to buy.
Because they planned on buying it before they announced how crippled it was. Answer your question?
@@AllCarsUnited that isn't always true. some people just like joining in on the trending topic and grifting.
Wonder what footage looks like with adapted vintage canon fd lenses. I have a slew of those as well as a few favorite nikon F lenses. Which brings a question. Does this camera have an asp-c mode for adapting asp-c lenses?
Great review, I think this makes a lot of sense for people like yourself who already have Leica Lenses lying around. I think for the beginner photographers, there are several very compact, fast, and affordable manual lenses out there for the L-mount system. I did however recently recommend a friend to check out the S9 because he recently dusted off his old film camera which he has plenty of lenses for but is frustrated with the cost of film. I explained that he can easily adapt his old SLR lenses to the S9 and as soon as he has shot 1500 pictures, he can easily justify the cost of the camera.
always great videos dude. straight up, insightful and real.
Helpful review! I just got an S9 and while i love it, the menu system is ind numbingly so bad it's disturbing! Can anyone tell me how on earth to set the Suto focus button to magnify assist? I so want to want to love this camera and learn the menus but counter intuitive hardly touches how absurdly not intuitive they are..800 page manual!
Oh man, it took me forever to figure that out too. Legitimately probably 20 minutes of accidentally passing over it over and over. Wish I remembered where! I’ll try to check back tomorrow and I have it around
What adapter you need to use m mount lens on S9 ?
I have a little question. I have that 40mm too and I was wondering how u changed out the focus tab to that one. My one has the slightly annoying pinch one
Yeah I bought mine like this, sorry!
Thinking aloud:
This body, 1960’s M Mount glass from 28-50mm, a great Kodachrome 25 LUT (or 5222XX), and video. 🎉🎉🎉
I was waiting on this to see if it might make sense for me to get the S9 as a small M mount body. I think I still need an EVF and mechanical shutter, and my A7C does that nicely, just that I don’t like the UI and the SOOC jpegs ain’t great from the Sony. I’m keen on the Realtime LUTs for a quick and easy shooting body.
Digital Minolta CLE?
Ricoh GRIII has no evf and i like that camera better than the x100v
I love how small that thing is
I challenge you to use the S9 w/ the "Leica Monochrome Black and White profile" that is already set (licensed) for usage w/ the S9. IMO it gets even closer to the look you speak of, without using some created LUT. Leica dialed it in for Lumix especially, looks pretty cool. The S9 is going to do NUMBERS once people get a hold of it + the Lumix Lab app.
I actually have never liked any of the Leica profiles for JPEGs in camera. The “Leica look” doesn’t come from those IMO.
@@benjhaisch What's crazy is, it's literally a Leica-look that THEY put in there lol, but.. I feel you.
@TopshelfJunior haha yes but the term “Leica look” predates digital to my understanding
@@benjhaisch For sure.. And it pertains to several different factors, obvs. Camera body + Leica glass + how that system renders the film being shot, specs and capabilities of the camera, etc etc.. But what I was getting at was...Since the year 2000, Leica and Lumix have been in cahoots...and a lot of things are shared so to speak. The S9, at the moment.. is the only Lumix camera that has an OFFICIAL "Leica Monochrome B&W" look / lut IN it, officially from Leica. Try it lol.
I see this compact little full frame with its LUT workflow capability will be lots of fun. All my LUTs and Color grading on capture one but being able to work them into the field sounds great. Being able to rig up a M lenses into a psuedoleica is icing on the cake.
I think Panasonic did a poor job marketing this product, also they need to release more native compact lenses. If I can fit that EF 2.8 autofocus 40mm on my 1dmk3 or 5dmk4 they can do it also, i feel they dropped the ball on that.
Try the sigma FP L with M lenses. It’s awesome
You are on a roll!!!
Nice one, enjoyed the watch. Well balanced and thoughtful.
You could always use an old fashioned optical viewfinder in the accessory shoe.
Looord, I hope they make an adult's version of the S9 with an EVF, joystick, mechanical shutter, GH7-style back screen, and 61mp sensor!
They (almost) have that. It's the S5II. 😂
@@-grey haha
No mention of whether or not the s9 has any issues with corner smearing or color cast? Its sort of implied in the video that the Sony, Nikon, and Leica are all equally good with Leica M lenses, but the zf is definitely noticeably better than any of the Sony bodies... And historically Lumix cameras haven't been great either. The gold standard is how they perform on M, SL, and even the sigma fp- would have been good to have a few sentences on how the s9 compares in that regard.
No color cast, but some light smearing at wider focal lengths.
I would have ordered this camera on launch day if it had an EVF.
Oh, c’mon. I was waiting for covering the question of moderate to superwide lenses usage on this cam in terms of color shading and smearing in corners all the way. Instead the entire clip is about only one 40mm 🤦♂️
Thank you for that video. It’s good to see how this could work. It seems too much of a compromise for my needs but I can see that it’s an option. I think the lacking EVF is the dealbreaker for me.
EVF for sure.
I could live without an EVF (unfortunately) and I wouldn't care for a hotshoe on this form factor, but the lack of a mechanical shutter and the joystick is an absolute deal breaker for me. Fortunately there's still room for a "S7", but Panasonic can't really release new cameras every day like Sony does and they have more urgent matters with the S1 upgrades, so I guess I'll have to wait patiently.
an S7 between the S5 and S9 would be incredible. Especially if they made it a more "pro" version with dual slots, etc. I'd pay $2k for that, easy.
Companies need to actually listen to their users! This camera was conceived in a boardroom and it shows. Take the form factor and aesthetics of a nice, compact photo camera, but gut all of the useful components to make it essentially a full frame iPhone with worse photo readout. I don’t want to dump on this camera because it makes sense to add this in the lineup, but these manufacturers don’t workshop these cameras with real photographers. Content creators that don’t need top of the line specs could easily make do with micro 4/3. A full frame body like this NEEDS an EVF and a shutter. It doesn’t even have to be the fastest shutter speed.
I want to see photo centered cameras make a come back. These companies have stopped trying to innovate in that department so they could easily make a variant that has all of these things so that we can finally have what we want. Seeing a non video centric camera like the X100 sellout over and over should be a clear indication that people still prioritize taking pictures.
I truly just wish it had a hotshoe for a small flash
They left it out because it doesn't have a mechanical shutter, therefore flash produces weird results with electronic shutter
@@CianMcsweeney electronic only shutter is also a fail
@@mrsparkle3372 I agree
Hmmmm...Benj...You are using a A9III without a mechanical shutter and now the S9 is also without a mechanical shuter and this is a problem...??
Do you know why the A9III and the S9 are very different with theirs though?
Yes!! Global shutter readout (faster then the S9) and a 'standard' readout of the sensor. Both without a mechanical shutter. That makes them different in purpose! The S9 is a content creator camera and every body want to use them in a sports arena and there isn't it made for!! Social media-focused workflow!!
Sorry but the Sony 7CR is just 500$ more, not double the price, with a viewfinder, 61Mp, mechanical shutter etc .....
The A7CII is $700 more, yeah. The A7CR is $2999…
While I get the justification of them omitting certain features, Nikon Z5 and Canon R8 comes with all the extra hardware, and they’re cheaper. So it can be done.
R8 doesn't have IBIS and the Z5 is not a very compact FF camera.
You bad bad boy, mixing with 'THAT' lens. (gets credit card out....)
just get the old a7c
Honestly, my Leica TL2 is the best option to use M lenses in a very smart and discrete manner.
In case I need it I can use an additional EVF
In case I need I can use a flash
There is a mechanical shutter and an internal memory in case Inforget my SD card…
And this APSC Sensor is soooo nice
I’m a fan of Lumix S bodies
S1 S1R and S5iiX are in my bag but for sure the S9 is not offering what I need as a photographer
Who wants to manually focus nice M-glass via screen like some tourist? Sorry, Panasonic. Next time with EVF, please.
From a enthuasist photographer perspective this isn't a camera tha Panasonic had intended its audience for. Far too many compromises for little value to photographers
Yes; it is for videographers. Hint : no mechanical shutter, which is not used for video. LUTs, anamorphic capabilities, etc.
Get an used sigma fp/fpl instead
No IBIS.
What "content creation" means ??? Is a photographer not a content creator ? Marketing BS which turns minds upside down !
To me it’s people whose primary avenue of making work is for social media.
@@benjhaisch So it is mainly adressed to "pro", meaning people making money out of their work....a niche for a new breed of customers, just invented, in summary.
@@chengo51 it’s all a bit fluid at points, but for me, my “pro” work is the paid stuff for/from clients. The “content creator” stuff are things that I make for others to sort of consume online. Again, a bit of a blurred line at times, but that’s how I make the distinction.
It's a camera for video. Is that clearer? No mechanical shutter...
@@benjhaischthey messed up if they are marketing this as a working pro camera. Many other products address that need. This seems to fit the “I want to leave the work truck at home” and carry something small and nimble but with a nice full frame sensor and a more flexible frictionless image output fun camera.
Ie I do not want to be sitting in front of my 5K+ workstation with a calibrated monitor working on RAW images and spending time grading etc.. I missed out on the hype and drama and ordered one today. I could really see myself enjoying this as my daily carry definitely will be superior to using my iPhone 😂