Thanks, I have both. Hydraulic for short sails and motoring and Hydrovane for everything else. The Hydrovane's no power consumption is nice, but the silence is everything.
Hydrovane...a marvellous piece of British design and engineering since 1968. When I bought mine I drove to Kirkby in Ashfield where they are still manufactured. The usual warehouse manager was on holiday so I was honoured to be 'served' by the designer of the Hydrovane, Derek Daniels, who had retired but stood in when required. Bill
I’ve run my tiller steered 29’ boat for 11 years with a raymarine st2000 tiller pilot. It’s such a vital bit of kit I even bought a spare. I hardly ever steer by hand, except when the wind / waves gets too strong and obviously takeoff and landing. I’ve done thousands of miles of coastal sailing using it, mostly around the coasts of north Scotland. While reliable it’s not that waterproof, mine is wrapped in cling film and has a heavier duty cover I bought off eBay. The best part though is the remote control - an Australian guy called ‘Madman marine’ makes them and it’s been brilliant. It’s controlled by a small key fob that I wear around my neck with 4 buttons that correspond to the 4 buttons on the autopilot. It means I can steer the boat from anywhere, including sitting out by the bow, and it only uses power when the buttons are pressed so the batteries last forever. Can’t recommend it enough! I prefer using it ‘manually’ rather than connecting the ap to the plotter because it gives me more control, it just feels like steering the boat by remote control. Yes it’s a lazy way to do it but I’m almost always on my own and I can go for long stretches, sometimes 12 hours, without any fatigue (having a pilot house helps too 😀)
Excelent info! My 42 foot and 16 ton sailing boat consumes between 10- to 15 Ah under way. And a large part of that consumtion is our SimradRobertson hydraulic ram pilot. The first we had was from 1985, and was given to us foc. And it worked flawlessly on our boat for 20 years. Now we have installed a brand new one. The old one has retired as a spare. And our batteries are totally dependent upon our diesel genset or shore power as you say. We don't have enough sun up here in Norway to cover our consumtion by solar power.
Thanks for the feedback. I find even in the Caribbean unless you have a vast solar panel display and are disciplined with your amps usage you need some form of mechanical backup and a diesel genset is the way to go. Sounds like you have it all sorted
@@SailingGently En contraire my dear sir!!! Maybe worth mentioning that here in Canada and east coast of the US, Cape Horns self steerings have been found to be very reliable…and simple. Perhaps in the mid range of the prices you have covered. You may already be familiar with them but if not, it has an interesting story/and person behind them. Cheers and looking forward to your next video.
Good summary. A few years back, prepping for a passage, I bought a new wind-vane on the market called the ProVane. Works in a similar manner to the Hydrovane. Its all SS, but not to heavy. I have it on a 33 ft Nantucket Island yacht which is an old and heavy boat. The ProVane handles it with aplomb. These have now a good track record of install on a wide variety of yachts and have been very successful on long passages. It provides an auxiliary emergency rudder also, and I have even worked out how to attach an old RM ST1000 tiller pilot to it for hands free emergency steering. The PV is made in Estonia, by an experienced sailor and metal engineer. Prices very reasonable and as I live in Australia it was still a best price option including a heavy delivery charge compared to alternatives. I am very pleased with it performance and remove the rudder when not required to make it a little easier to manoeuvre into tight berths one it not used to. I also had on a previous yacht installed a Pelagic auto pilot. I can say without any hesitation this is an excellent device, well engineered, robust and reliable. I believe they have some type of adaptation for wheel steering yachts but never explored it. I have the RM Evo on my current yacht, find it very useful, but agree with your comments regarding their design, and quality of product. I may one day attempt to get a quadrant drive fitted. Best.
I confess I have never heard of ProVane but it sounds excellent.. It interesting that I am getting a lot of posts saying how good the Pelagic auto pilots are.. I think its easier ordering from the USA from down under - more natural. You have a wonderful cruising ground - I sailed from Port Jackson to Darwin and loved every mile of it!
Interesting to hear about your experience @dreamtimesv . I am currently corresponding with Imre the guy that makes the ProVane - I intend fitting one to my Vancouver 34 PH this winter. 🙂
@@russab2001 thats good news. You wont be disappointed and his support after sales is great. Would be most interested to hear your evaluation at a later time. Enjoy the PV and the sailing that goes with it. Summer on way here to its PV time. Best.
@@dreamtimesv Cheers .... BTW I have watched your videos - and your testimonial went a long way to persuading me that the PV was a safe bet and not somehow a cheap copy of the famous Hydrovane. - so thank you for all the effort you put in to those videos
excelent video, good info not only for beginners. I do not believe in integrated systems, auto piloting the boat, unless you are doing it for the fun of it. In my opinion, separate systems are more reliable, less complicated and easier to use. Unless you are on a superyacht with large crew, you do not need the autopilot automatically following preprogrammed waypoints; in fact it is better if you do not. Most small boat sailors navigate these days using Navionics on a tablet or even a phone. Adjusting a simple separate autopilot "manually" to follow you preprogrammed route in Navionics works just fine. The added advantage of separate systems is the fact that you have to be actively ingaged in navigation, which filters out possible planning errors and/or changing conditions. Navionics shows your planned route simultaneously with the actual track over ground. Finally, complicated integrated navigation systems cost thousands of coins ;-)
I agree with you Jarek, about integrated systems, although I like having a chart plotter screen in front of the helm for entering anchorages and course keeping. The way I sail in the sun and tropical rainstorms I doubt a tablet or phone in the cockpit would last long!
@@SailingGently True, if you use a regular naked iPad; these are not tough enough for boat life. I designed and made myself a custom enclosure for the android tablet I use for navigation; it is watertight and "tough", like the toughbooks used by special services. Too bad there are no such enclosures on the general market. There are some, but I could not find one that can withstand rain or being thrown around. I design aluminum boats for a living, so it was a fun project to do as well.
The wonderfully comforting thing about this video Michael, is that it didn't teach me anything. I'm very grateful to you for that because I know how knowledgeable and thoughtful you are about things! I did however learn from and very much appreciate your legwork in researching and summarising current (UK) prices. I suspect this is because you're about to stump up for that delayed vane and are in the throes of selection. Drat. I did learn something. The Guernsey vat angle. I hope I remember to remember that at the right moment.
I wondered if anyone would watch this as 'old hands' know and beginners probably aren't interested but its doing well... I thought the price comparison was interesting whilst I was doing it... Guernsey works for other things as well but you need to get one of the boatyards to receive on your behalf
@@SailingGently Your stuff is always good quality and far more relevant to good old fashioned sailing and sailors whether new or old hands. I'm wondering if you should edit hashtags into your post descriptions as I've seen others do. Not an expert but I think it might raise your circulation in regard to hits when people topic search. Is it possible to do that? Or do you know better (I'm speaking codswallop?)?
There is a device I saw on the "Wave Rover" channel which is currently being used on his cross Atlantic sail from the US to the Azores. He calls it the "Type 3" and it works by altering a trim tab (baby rudder) on the main rudder. I think it is his own design and it seems very efficient. Good helpful video.Thank you.
Interesting. I think there are a lot of self made windvanes around and I think the Jester Challenge site has details of a DIY one. I'll go and look at Wave Rover - Thanks. He has a transom hung rudder and it looks like that very effective and clever original design works well. Clever guy!
@@SailingGently Thanks, there is the Fleming windvane as well. Instead of generator I hate nose they make and they are difficult to install as well with pluming cooling and fuel. Have you thought about a towing a water generator? Have you had experiences with them to supply power? My boat is an ex BOC 86-87 vintage class two masthead cutter. Keep sailing, SV Skoiern IV
I think the problem with all these amp producing devices is that their output is just not enough for nav lights and all the other electronic items on a modern boat... I'm not sure that Fleming are still in business but I could wrong
Pelagic in the USA make reasonably priced tiller pilots which are very robust. On one passage I broke three Raymarine tiller pilot actuators . Admittedly, they were already somewhat tired. Then I ordered a Pelagic, and after three years it’s still going strong. Very easy to instal and calibrate, too.
Hydrovane forever, simple and efficient. At 4.23, is that a Walker log you are trailing? Have not thought about one of those for forty five years! Thank you for the video. Everyone, listen to this man, he knows what he is talking about. Aloha from a Limey in Hawaii!
Hi Jessie from Hawaii Walker log very old video... Mine is in my office on a shelf. Can't bear to part with it! Apparently there is another company - 'ProVane - windyselfsteering.com/. It is the larger model of the "Windy" that this company in Estonia makes'.. Love to hear more about them - priced today £2,500!!! wonder if they are any good?
thank you for the practical views on self steering wind vanes and autopilots, as i have a 43' boat and use the b&g ram set up. I was interested in another brand, Sailomat, which their current model, 800, has a feature I desire which is it can be mounted offset so as to not interfere with my swim ladder. Thanks again for the informative video.
Yes I saw that variation on their web site - very clever. I know you can fix the Hydrovane off centre which is what I was thinking of doing on my boat but they are vastly more expensive than the excellent Sailomat
Sounds familiar, I had my electric autohelm fail crossing Biscay solo, the wind dropped and I ended up doing exactly what you did for a day and a half! Knackering! I’m currently still sailing with only my Hydrovane until I can get parts shipped. I’ve actually come to rather like it! It involves a bit more technique and forethought, also it seems somehow purer and lessens the temptation to fire up the metal mule. I definitely want my autohelm back online before my Atlantic crossing however! I own a ketch and my only frustrations are that the mizzen boom does not clear the Hydrovane, so tacking and gybing can be a bit of a faff, also having the rudder on does have a noticeable effect on close quarters manoeuvrability on an already tricky to manoeuvre boat. Overall a thumbs up for Hydrovane though, it’s one of my favourite pieces of kit!
Yes when I had a vane on a ketch I had the same problems - then I just pulled up the boom on the topping lift and stopped using the mizen... I found a ketch rig a bit too demanding single handed but you seem to be coping well and enjoying it - well done!
The Subject Nicely covered Michael. I've been struggling with this for a while now - to say the least 😅 - and have settled on a Hydraulic System of some sort to go for with my next Sailboat, which should have , thanks to a large beam between the Hull Chines, have room for close to 1,000 Watts of Rigid Solar Panels, and finally, after finding Delamination protected seni flexible Solar panels - Delamination kills most flexible Solar Panels within 2 years - so I can add at least two x 200 watt Panels to the top of the Bimini, and I have found out how to use a Bank of Lifepo4 batteries, to manage the charge State of an AGM Bank, plus AGM engine start , Windlass, plus bow thruster batteries in tip top Condition for very long service Lives - barring accidents- as I like backups of backups, a full set of spares will be needed for the autopilot, and the size of the boat has been upped to have room for a moderately sized generator, as backup for a not too large Output cool running engine Alternator. Hopefully, the Piggybank is going to be large enough to cope with the rather eye watering expense, if not, plans will have to be altered, which will be rather a shame, as it appears that I have successfully lined up a significant discount on a new bot. Fair Winds. Bob. 🤔🌟🌟🌟👍
Well done Bob. You certainly seem to have done your research and have excellent backups in place.. Good luck with he plans and it's good news about the boat!
@@SailingGently Thanks Michael. I have passed on Recommendations for Terry of Bumbling Sailor Channel to get your Gentle Sailing Route along the Coast as he has ambitions to Sail his boat to the Mediterranean now, and I can't think of a better and more Enjoyable Route for him to take. Fair play, as a new Cruiser, for just over a year or so, he is doing RYA Courses and is making really good progress, and has successfully Sailed around Lands End, up the Bristol Channel, up the Irish Sea to the Isle of Man, Northern Ireland and presently is in Conwy Marina, taking advantage of a Marina package, which means he can stay in any Marina in the UK for up to 30 days, and he is doing it Single Handed. To say that I am Chuffed for him is a bit of an Understatement tbh. His Progress has been simply amazing. Fair Winds Michael, and hoping your boat is OK through what is left of Hurricane Season. Bob in Wales. 🤔🌟🌟🌟👍
@@SailingGently 👍 The changes in him this past year or so, frankly have been really impressive imho, and as you say Michael, he's a natural who has a good character foundation. I think if he uses your Route to get to the Med, apart from really enjoying it, it will greatly expand his experience as well. I think he'd be safe enough, with care with an Atlantic Crossing, but it might not be the most comfortable Sailboat to do it on, as it's a pretty light 30 footer. One way or another though, I think he'll make it. Best Wishes and Fair Winds. Bob. 👍
Excellent thank you. Just having an autopilot EV 200 fitted now (£3250) and concerned about the amps. Fridge 3/4 amps, nav 4 amps, auto pilot 3/4 amps? On a day sail that's around 100 ah our 650w of solar and 650ah bank will barely cope in UK. If the sun does not come out we will have to steer 🙂 My wife says boat ownership is ultimately a resource management challenge.
Thanks for information. I'd like to mention the hydrovane adds strong loads on transom. Servo pendulum systems don't. Also there can be problems while using jordan drouge with installed windvane. And important consideration is how to repair the windvane at sea and how complicated it will be. Myself i will use a Windpilot Pacific Light with my 'Liz 29. In addition with a ST2000+. Kind regards, Thomas
Thomas hello, I used a Hydrovane on the back of my Moody 36 for 35,000 miles and there was the occasional minor issue - sun got to the material of the vane so I took it to a sailmaker somewhere and he supplied me 6 in light spinnaker material for the price of one from Hydrovane company! I had a Liz 31 - wonderful boat - with an Aeries... I had a windpilot for a couple of years and thought it was excellent. I think you have a perfect setup on your'Liz'
With hydro/wind vane prices matching generator/electric autopilots, it makes sense to consider the latter. Might make a great video about DIY windvanes too ü
Not being able to install an underdeck drive ram would be a dealbreaker for buying a boat for me. Mine is a tiller steered 1973 Dufour 35 with a Garmin Reactor controlling a Jefa linear drive. At sea I use a Capehorn windvane. This windvane has no exposed lines and it's the best looking vane there is. I ought to get me a cheap tiller electronic autopilot to connect to the windvane but as to this day, I haven't needed it yet.
I have a Raymarine tiller pilot on my 29' gaff cutter, but I'll be adding a windvane too..either a self made trim tab system on my transom hung rudder, or a ready made Hydrovane. I'm eyeballing the Jester challenge in a few years, hopefully :)
I use Hydrovane all the time. Haven't even fixed my somewhat defunct wheel pilot. Downside is when under engine. Reliability and silence of the HV under sail are everything... Expensive, but if I was to change boat, I can just take it off and reinstall it.
Vincent hi, I agree with all you write and I have subscribed to your channel! You are the person I quoted as only using the Hydrovane all the time.... for motoring why not get a cheap tiller pilot to fit on the Hydrovane? Michael Still in Boulogne with a broken leg - heading out mid November!
@@SailingGently I'll soon know if my wheel pilot can be fixed by a DIY friend here. If not, finding a way to install a cheap tiller pilot on the HV will be a winter job :)
@@VincentVerschoore Sounds like a good winter project... If not the tiller pilot sounds good but I bet it needs quite a few mods to get it aligned... Thanks for the visit Vincent
Good video. However new , modern autopilots are very efficient even with high winds and seas. ( see the racing boats in the transatlantic and around the world races like vendee globe. No one is using vanes only pilots. Very very few pilots failures. Some yes but same for vanes). More expensive yes but quite reliable for the best brands and not so much energy consumption i believe.
Bonjour jean louis, Thank you for your information. I didn't intend to imply modern powerful autopilots are not good. Quite the contrary most are excellent and better than wind vanes if you can power them. It was only the Raymarine Evolution Wheel pilot that I have found to be badly designed and grossly underpower. I agree with all that you write. Thank you for watching
@@SailingGently I am building one at the moment. I don't have any experience with other windvanes but from my extended research the hebridean is actually the only "true" windvane in terms of angles (full explanation on the website.
Well I hate to say it, because of their current prices, buy my Hydrovane did 35,000 miles around the world with me and was totally reliable. The Windpilot around 10,000 and also was good but Indeed I have good things about Hebredean.
It's a shame the wind powered ones are so expensive. In the meantime a small solar panel should be plenty for one or day sails a week, and there are some intriguing DIY designs.
I have a couple of solar panels but they are not really up to running the boat electronics when night and day sailing and I think with more i would still need to run the engine every few days to top up the batteries. I do agree re wind vanes - Can't see why some cost so much
@SailingGently mostly I'm knocking around the Solent where there isn't a need (or usually an opportunity) to set the auto helm to steer a constant course for hours at a time. Useful when I want to leave the cockpit for a few minutes or need 2 hands for something but I'm not relying on it for keeping course while I sleep. Plus usually the panel has several days to recharge the battery.
I think your price for the windpilot is a bit low. Peter Foerthmann quoted me 3100 euros last year for the smallest windpilot pacific light. Do you have any experiences with the South Atlantic windvane ? This seems to be significantly lower price.
Martin hi, I took the price from their web site so... but of course they all 'fudge' the real cost a bit and there are so many 'variations'... Thank you for the real quote...
This is an opportunity for a vane company to gift a growing channel a vane for "review". #windvane #autopilot #selfsteering #rudder #sailing #sailingchannel #standbyrudder
Some info in this video is a lie and some info is left out. A windvane does NOT work in really bad weather as the waves will block the wind. It will also not work when there is no wind. It is best that every cruising boat have an AP, regardless if it has a windvane or not. Now lets look at prices. To buy a new windvane, you are looking at around 6-8K. Most boats can get a new AP for much less than that. I just spent 8K on a new AP but it's a type 3 hydraulic AP for a big boat. So, for the smaller boats, would you rather have 2 APs which is cheaper than an AP and Windvane? The AP will work in all conditions but the windvane will not. I'd rather have an AP that I know how it works and can replace a broken part in 5 minutes than deal with a windvane, but others just get a good feeling about having the wind steer the boat. Then there is the problem of having it on the stern. It gets in the way of a lot of stuff, both on anchor and at sea. Some will say APs can't be trusted and you should never rely on one. That may have been true 30 years ago, but today APs are really good and go up to 60,000 miles without a problem. Some say vanes never have any problem but that is not true either. I've heard of many stories of vanes losing a bolt at sea and not operational after that. You need to inspect them often to make sure nothing comes out. All in all, if you can only afford one, get an AP. If you can afford 2, then it's a matter of preference. Both have pros and cons. I was thinking of getting a vane when I first started cruising. At first I could only afford 1 AP, so I installed that before leaving. Later I ran across a couple who had been cruising for 23 years and went around the world. They had both but told me the only time they used their vane was when the AP's hydraulic hose broke. Guy said he knew it was a problem but thought he could make it to NZ before fixing it. He did most of the trip on the vane to get to NZ but after that, never used it again. That was all I needed to decide to get a spare AP instead of a vane.
Your reviews have no equal. All in one episode. What a mess. I thought these wind devices were expensive, but they cost more than the boat. Tiller wands have no appeal to me because they constantly break. What you shouldn't be teaching is diesel generators. Mine is air cooled, light, and 3 horsepower. It's also ships propulsion at an African Queen speed. Brand new, it costs about as much as one of those stupid steering wands. You showed batteries hard wired in parallel, and they should never be hard wired in parallel. Out of the blue, I imagined a wind vane as a tiny windmill and gears. You rotate it, and it keeps applying spring trim until the boat aims right. All these wind vanes keep breaking in the TH-cams. My other concept is boat in a box. A box of ready made stuff waiting for me to rescue a smaller sailboat.
I know what you mean - the add ons can end up costing more than the boat. I have never had a windvane system fail but I have had stacks of electric autopilots fail which is why I am a bit wary of only having one of them for blue water passages.
Michael an excellent overview. Big plus points for an autopilot, of any flavour, they do not use food or water and do what they are told.
Thank you Norman. An Autopilot makes the perfect sailing companion as you point out!
Thanks, I have both. Hydraulic for short sails and motoring and Hydrovane for everything else. The Hydrovane's no power consumption is nice, but the silence is everything.
Yes you are right, Night watch with just the Hydrovane, lapping of sea water and the myriade of stars is a sort of magic...
Hydrovane...a marvellous piece of British design and engineering since 1968. When I bought mine I drove to Kirkby in Ashfield where they are still manufactured. The usual warehouse manager was on holiday so I was honoured to be 'served' by the designer of the Hydrovane, Derek Daniels, who had retired but stood in when required. Bill
Your right Bill it is a brilliant british product... You were lucky to meet the designer!
I’ve run my tiller steered 29’ boat for 11 years with a raymarine st2000 tiller pilot. It’s such a vital bit of kit I even bought a spare. I hardly ever steer by hand, except when the wind / waves gets too strong and obviously takeoff and landing. I’ve done thousands of miles of coastal sailing using it, mostly around the coasts of north Scotland. While reliable it’s not that waterproof, mine is wrapped in cling film and has a heavier duty cover I bought off eBay. The best part though is the remote control - an Australian guy called ‘Madman marine’ makes them and it’s been brilliant. It’s controlled by a small key fob that I wear around my neck with 4 buttons that correspond to the 4 buttons on the autopilot. It means I can steer the boat from anywhere, including sitting out by the bow, and it only uses power when the buttons are pressed so the batteries last forever. Can’t recommend it enough! I prefer using it ‘manually’ rather than connecting the ap to the plotter because it gives me more control, it just feels like steering the boat by remote control. Yes it’s a lazy way to do it but I’m almost always on my own and I can go for long stretches, sometimes 12 hours, without any fatigue (having a pilot house helps too 😀)
That's interesting Cory. Didn't know a remote was possible... Clever invention.
I agree. Love all the videos. Actually tells it how it is. So informative
So pleased you thought it was interesting Phil! Thank you for watching.
Excelent info! My 42 foot and 16 ton sailing boat consumes between 10- to 15 Ah under way. And a large part of that consumtion is our SimradRobertson hydraulic ram pilot. The first we had was from 1985, and was given to us foc. And it worked flawlessly on our boat for 20 years. Now we have installed a brand new one. The old one has retired as a spare. And our batteries are totally dependent upon our diesel genset or shore power as you say. We don't have enough sun up here in Norway to cover our consumtion by solar power.
Thanks for the feedback. I find even in the Caribbean unless you have a vast solar panel display and are disciplined with your amps usage you need some form of mechanical backup and a diesel genset is the way to go. Sounds like you have it all sorted
This video is a treasure. It has answered several questions for which I've had trouble getting straight answers. You are a gem among men!
So pleased it was helpful. Thank you for watching
I always learn something from your videos. Thank you.
So pleased you found it interesting... I was afraid I would bore everyone with this niche video..
@@SailingGently En contraire my dear sir!!!
Maybe worth mentioning that here in Canada and east coast of the US, Cape Horns self steerings have been found to be very reliable…and simple. Perhaps in the mid range of the prices you have covered.
You may already be familiar with them but if not, it has an interesting story/and person behind them.
Cheers and looking forward to your next video.
Yes I had forgotten Cape Horn but I can't find their web site so I wonder if they are still in business?
Good summary. A few years back, prepping for a passage, I bought a new wind-vane on the market called the ProVane. Works in a similar manner to the Hydrovane. Its all SS, but not to heavy. I have it on a 33 ft Nantucket Island yacht which is an old and heavy boat. The ProVane handles it with aplomb. These have now a good track record of install on a wide variety of yachts and have been very successful on long passages. It provides an auxiliary emergency rudder also, and I have even worked out how to attach an old RM ST1000 tiller pilot to it for hands free emergency steering. The PV is made in Estonia, by an experienced sailor and metal engineer. Prices very reasonable and as I live in Australia it was still a best price option including a heavy delivery charge compared to alternatives. I am very pleased with it performance and remove the rudder when not required to make it a little easier to manoeuvre into tight berths one it not used to. I also had on a previous yacht installed a Pelagic auto pilot. I can say without any hesitation this is an excellent device, well engineered, robust and reliable. I believe they have some type of adaptation for wheel steering yachts but never explored it. I have the RM Evo on my current yacht, find it very useful, but agree with your comments regarding their design, and quality of product. I may one day attempt to get a quadrant drive fitted. Best.
I confess I have never heard of ProVane but it sounds excellent.. It interesting that I am getting a lot of posts saying how good the Pelagic auto pilots are.. I think its easier ordering from the USA from down under - more natural. You have a wonderful cruising ground - I sailed from Port Jackson to Darwin and loved every mile of it!
Interesting to hear about your experience @dreamtimesv . I am currently corresponding with Imre the guy that makes the ProVane - I intend fitting one to my Vancouver 34 PH this winter. 🙂
@@russab2001 thats good news. You wont be disappointed and his support after sales is great. Would be most interested to hear your evaluation at a later time. Enjoy the PV and the sailing that goes with it. Summer on way here to its PV time. Best.
@@dreamtimesv Cheers .... BTW I have watched your videos - and your testimonial went a long way to persuading me that the PV was a safe bet and not somehow a cheap copy of the famous Hydrovane. - so thank you for all the effort you put in to those videos
@@russab2001 all the best. The Vancouver pilot cabin is a beautiful yacht. Perfect for substantial passages in all conditions. Best
Very informative for a late beginner like myself. Thank you and fair winds.
So pleased it was helpful Dave. Thank you for watching
excelent video, good info not only for beginners. I do not believe in integrated systems, auto piloting the boat, unless you are doing it for the fun of it. In my opinion, separate systems are more reliable, less complicated and easier to use. Unless you are on a superyacht with large crew, you do not need the autopilot automatically following preprogrammed waypoints; in fact it is better if you do not. Most small boat sailors navigate these days using Navionics on a tablet or even a phone. Adjusting a simple separate autopilot "manually" to follow you preprogrammed route in Navionics works just fine. The added advantage of separate systems is the fact that you have to be actively ingaged in navigation, which filters out possible planning errors and/or changing conditions. Navionics shows your planned route simultaneously with the actual track over ground. Finally, complicated integrated navigation systems cost thousands of coins ;-)
I agree with you Jarek, about integrated systems, although I like having a chart plotter screen in front of the helm for entering anchorages and course keeping. The way I sail in the sun and tropical rainstorms I doubt a tablet or phone in the cockpit would last long!
@@SailingGently True, if you use a regular naked iPad; these are not tough enough for boat life. I designed and made myself a custom enclosure for the android tablet I use for navigation; it is watertight and "tough", like the toughbooks used by special services. Too bad there are no such enclosures on the general market. There are some, but I could not find one that can withstand rain or being thrown around. I design aluminum boats for a living, so it was a fun project to do as well.
The wonderfully comforting thing about this video Michael, is that it didn't teach me anything. I'm very grateful to you for that because I know how knowledgeable and thoughtful you are about things!
I did however learn from and very much appreciate your legwork in researching and summarising current (UK) prices.
I suspect this is because you're about to stump up for that delayed vane and are in the throes of selection.
Drat. I did learn something. The Guernsey vat angle. I hope I remember to remember that at the right moment.
I wondered if anyone would watch this as 'old hands' know and beginners probably aren't interested but its doing well... I thought the price comparison was interesting whilst I was doing it... Guernsey works for other things as well but you need to get one of the boatyards to receive on your behalf
@@SailingGently Your stuff is always good quality and far more relevant to good old fashioned sailing and sailors whether new or old hands.
I'm wondering if you should edit hashtags into your post descriptions as I've seen others do. Not an expert but I think it might raise your circulation in regard to hits when people topic search.
Is it possible to do that? Or do you know better (I'm speaking codswallop?)?
I actually don't know!!! Good suggestion but I too am not much of a techie! I'll have a look at it - thanks
There is a device I saw on the "Wave Rover" channel which is currently being used on his cross Atlantic sail from the US to the Azores. He calls it the "Type 3" and it works by altering a trim tab (baby rudder) on the main rudder. I think it is his own design and it seems very efficient. Good helpful video.Thank you.
Interesting. I think there are a lot of self made windvanes around and I think the Jester Challenge site has details of a DIY one. I'll go and look at Wave Rover - Thanks. He has a transom hung rudder and it looks like that very effective and clever original design works well. Clever guy!
Brilliant! Just the encouragement I needed to finish working on our ancient diesel generator - Thanks! (Am ordering your Gentle route to the Med)
I am more and more convinced the diesel gen set is the way to go if you have a big enough boat.
Wonderful, thank you. Love all your videos.
That's so kind. Really pleased you liked it. Thank you
Thank you for your effort in taking on this important subject. SV Skoiern IV
Glad it was helpful John. Thank you for watching
@@SailingGently Thanks, there is the Fleming windvane as well. Instead of generator I hate nose they make and they are difficult to install as well with pluming cooling and fuel. Have you thought about a towing a water generator? Have you had experiences with them to supply power? My boat is an ex BOC 86-87 vintage class two masthead cutter. Keep sailing, SV Skoiern IV
I think the problem with all these amp producing devices is that their output is just not enough for nav lights and all the other electronic items on a modern boat... I'm not sure that Fleming are still in business but I could wrong
Pelagic in the USA make reasonably priced tiller pilots which are very robust. On one passage I broke three Raymarine tiller pilot actuators . Admittedly, they were already somewhat tired. Then I ordered a Pelagic, and after three years it’s still going strong. Very easy to instal and calibrate, too.
Your right, Pelagic have a good reputation n- it's just I have never owned one
Excellent insight with well researched/experienced options' as usual.
Thanks Mark. Glad you liked it
Hydrovane forever, simple and efficient. At 4.23, is that a Walker log you are trailing? Have not thought about one of those for forty five years! Thank you for the video. Everyone, listen to this man, he knows what he is talking about. Aloha from a Limey in Hawaii!
Hi Jessie from Hawaii Walker log very old video... Mine is in my office on a shelf. Can't bear to part with it! Apparently there is another company - 'ProVane - windyselfsteering.com/. It is the larger model of the "Windy" that this company in Estonia makes'.. Love to hear more about them - priced today £2,500!!! wonder if they are any good?
Bravo, really helpful and to the point, just how we like it
Yhank you. So pleased you like it!
Thanks for uploading❤
It's my pleasure. Glad you found it interesting
very good - lots of great info, thank you
Glad you enjoyed it Phil. I enjoyed making it
thank you for the practical views on self steering wind vanes and autopilots, as i have a 43' boat and use the b&g ram set up. I was interested in another brand, Sailomat, which their current model, 800, has a feature I desire which is it can be mounted offset so as to not interfere with my swim ladder. Thanks again for the informative video.
Yes I saw that variation on their web site - very clever. I know you can fix the Hydrovane off centre which is what I was thinking of doing on my boat but they are vastly more expensive than the excellent Sailomat
Sounds familiar, I had my electric autohelm fail crossing Biscay solo, the wind dropped and I ended up doing exactly what you did for a day and a half! Knackering!
I’m currently still sailing with only my Hydrovane until I can get parts shipped. I’ve actually come to rather like it! It involves a bit more technique and forethought, also it seems somehow purer and lessens the temptation to fire up the metal mule. I definitely want my autohelm back online before my Atlantic crossing however!
I own a ketch and my only frustrations are that the mizzen boom does not clear the Hydrovane, so tacking and gybing can be a bit of a faff, also having the rudder on does have a noticeable effect on close quarters manoeuvrability on an already tricky to manoeuvre boat.
Overall a thumbs up for Hydrovane though, it’s one of my favourite pieces of kit!
Yes when I had a vane on a ketch I had the same problems - then I just pulled up the boom on the topping lift and stopped using the mizen... I found a ketch rig a bit too demanding single handed but you seem to be coping well and enjoying it - well done!
The Subject Nicely covered Michael. I've been struggling with this for a while now - to say the least 😅 - and have settled on a Hydraulic System of some sort to go for with my next Sailboat, which should have , thanks to a large beam between the Hull Chines, have room for close to 1,000 Watts of Rigid Solar Panels, and finally, after finding Delamination protected seni flexible Solar panels - Delamination kills most flexible Solar Panels within 2 years - so I can add at least two x 200 watt Panels to the top of the Bimini, and I have found out how to use a Bank of Lifepo4 batteries, to manage the charge State of an AGM Bank, plus AGM engine start , Windlass, plus bow thruster batteries in tip top Condition for very long service Lives - barring accidents- as I like backups of backups, a full set of spares will be needed for the autopilot, and the size of the boat has been upped to have room for a moderately sized generator, as backup for a not too large Output cool running engine Alternator. Hopefully, the Piggybank is going to be large enough to cope with the rather eye watering expense, if not, plans will have to be altered, which will be rather a shame, as it appears that I have successfully lined up a significant discount on a new bot. Fair Winds. Bob. 🤔🌟🌟🌟👍
Well done Bob. You certainly seem to have done your research and have excellent backups in place.. Good luck with he plans and it's good news about the boat!
@@SailingGently Thanks Michael. I have passed on Recommendations for Terry of Bumbling Sailor Channel to get your Gentle Sailing Route along the Coast as he has ambitions to Sail his boat to the Mediterranean now, and I can't think of a better and more Enjoyable Route for him to take. Fair play, as a new Cruiser, for just over a year or so, he is doing RYA Courses and is making really good progress, and has successfully Sailed around Lands End, up the Bristol Channel, up the Irish Sea to the Isle of Man, Northern Ireland and presently is in Conwy Marina, taking advantage of a Marina package, which means he can stay in any Marina in the UK for up to 30 days, and he is doing it Single Handed. To say that I am Chuffed for him is a bit of an Understatement tbh. His Progress has been simply amazing. Fair Winds Michael, and hoping your boat is OK through what is left of Hurricane Season. Bob in Wales. 🤔🌟🌟🌟👍
He sounds like a 'natural born' sailor!
@@SailingGently 👍 The changes in him this past year or so, frankly have been really impressive imho, and as you say Michael, he's a natural who has a good character foundation. I think if he uses your Route to get to the Med, apart from really enjoying it, it will greatly expand his experience as well. I think he'd be safe enough, with care with an Atlantic Crossing, but it might not be the most comfortable Sailboat to do it on, as it's a pretty light 30 footer. One way or another though, I think he'll make it. Best Wishes and Fair Winds. Bob. 👍
Excellent thank you. Just having an autopilot EV 200 fitted now (£3250) and concerned about the amps. Fridge 3/4 amps, nav 4 amps, auto pilot 3/4 amps? On a day sail that's around 100 ah our 650w of solar and 650ah bank will barely cope in UK. If the sun does not come out we will have to steer 🙂 My wife says boat ownership is ultimately a resource management challenge.
I think your wife is right! Even in the Caribbean with solar panels you need a big array and disciplined amp usage.
Been watching the Sailing Brothers using a Neptune system, seems very good, especially for the price.
That's interesting. I've heard good things about them but never actually seen one.
Great fact about guernsey tax, thanks!
You need an address to send to Luke, which is what the St Peter Port boatyards provide
Great info, many thanks. On the budget side you overlooked the Pelagic autopilot which is rumored to be better than Raymarine and Simrad.
Just been to the USA Pelagic web site David and they do indeed look very good.. I was afraid I would miss something and I did with them. My bad!
My bad David. Just been to the Pelagic autopilot site and their stuff looks really good. Sorry I missed them out!
Thanks for information.
I'd like to mention the hydrovane adds strong loads on transom. Servo pendulum systems don't. Also there can be problems while using jordan drouge with installed windvane. And important consideration is how to repair the windvane at sea and how complicated it will be.
Myself i will use a Windpilot Pacific Light with my 'Liz 29. In addition with a ST2000+.
Kind regards, Thomas
Thomas hello, I used a Hydrovane on the back of my Moody 36 for 35,000 miles and there was the occasional minor issue - sun got to the material of the vane so I took it to a sailmaker somewhere and he supplied me 6 in light spinnaker material for the price of one from Hydrovane company! I had a Liz 31 - wonderful boat - with an Aeries... I had a windpilot for a couple of years and thought it was excellent. I think you have a perfect setup on your'Liz'
With hydro/wind vane prices matching generator/electric autopilots, it makes sense to consider the latter.
Might make a great video about DIY windvanes too ü
I agree. With bigger boats a silenced gen set is possibly the way to go.. there's a DIY vane on the Jester challenge Web site
Not being able to install an underdeck drive ram would be a dealbreaker for buying a boat for me. Mine is a tiller steered 1973 Dufour 35 with a Garmin Reactor controlling a Jefa linear drive. At sea I use a Capehorn windvane. This windvane has no exposed lines and it's the best looking vane there is. I ought to get me a cheap tiller electronic autopilot to connect to the windvane but as to this day, I haven't needed it yet.
Yes Dirk, I was wrong to omit Cape Horn but I'm not sure they are still in business
@@SailingGently As of 2022 they were. That's when I bought mine. I believe the business was taken over by the son or son in law.
I have a Raymarine tiller pilot on my 29' gaff cutter, but I'll be adding a windvane too..either a self made trim tab system on my transom hung rudder, or a ready made Hydrovane. I'm eyeballing the Jester challenge in a few years, hopefully :)
Well done with the Jester Challenge ambitions! I think they have plans for a DIY windvane on their web site
I use Hydrovane all the time. Haven't even fixed my somewhat defunct wheel pilot. Downside is when under engine. Reliability and silence of the HV under sail are everything... Expensive, but if I was to change boat, I can just take it off and reinstall it.
Vincent hi,
I agree with all you write and I have subscribed to your channel! You are the person I quoted as only using the Hydrovane all the time.... for motoring why not get a cheap tiller pilot to fit on the Hydrovane? Michael Still in Boulogne with a broken leg - heading out mid November!
@@SailingGently I'll soon know if my wheel pilot can be fixed by a DIY friend here. If not, finding a way to install a cheap tiller pilot on the HV will be a winter job :)
@@VincentVerschoore Sounds like a good winter project... If not the tiller pilot sounds good but I bet it needs quite a few mods to get it aligned... Thanks for the visit Vincent
Good job, thank you.
Thank you too Tim. Glad you liked it
@@SailingGently No problem your explanations are clear and to the point.
Good video. However new , modern autopilots are very efficient even with high winds and seas. ( see the racing boats in the transatlantic and around the world races like vendee globe. No one is using vanes only pilots. Very very few pilots failures. Some yes but same for vanes). More expensive yes but quite reliable for the best brands and not so much energy consumption i believe.
Bonjour jean louis, Thank you for your information. I didn't intend to imply modern powerful autopilots are not good. Quite the contrary most are excellent and better than wind vanes if you can power them. It was only the Raymarine Evolution Wheel pilot that I have found to be badly designed and grossly underpower. I agree with all that you write. Thank you for watching
very helpful indeed !
Glad it was helpful! Thank you for watching
One of the best.
Thank you Nat. Glad you liked it
Cape Horn is a Canadian made windvane.
Carl you re right. I forgot them. Are they still making them?
HI! What about Hebredean windvanes?
Your right Alric they have bee around for ages and appear to be well thought of
@@SailingGently I am building one at the moment. I don't have any experience with other windvanes but from my extended research the hebridean is actually the only "true" windvane in terms of angles (full explanation on the website.
Well I hate to say it, because of their current prices, buy my Hydrovane did 35,000 miles around the world with me and was totally reliable. The Windpilot around 10,000 and also was good but Indeed I have good things about Hebredean.
Wind vane going to be sensible on a cat? Are there too many obstructions? Nowhere to mount one?
I don't think the obstructions are a problem but I don't remember ever seeing one on a cat... You would need to talk to a windvane manufacturer..
It's a shame the wind powered ones are so expensive. In the meantime a small solar panel should be plenty for one or day sails a week, and there are some intriguing DIY designs.
I have a couple of solar panels but they are not really up to running the boat electronics when night and day sailing and I think with more i would still need to run the engine every few days to top up the batteries. I do agree re wind vanes - Can't see why some cost so much
@SailingGently mostly I'm knocking around the Solent where there isn't a need (or usually an opportunity) to set the auto helm to steer a constant course for hours at a time. Useful when I want to leave the cockpit for a few minutes or need 2 hands for something but I'm not relying on it for keeping course while I sleep. Plus usually the panel has several days to recharge the battery.
@@jonathanshaw6784 You are right of course Jonathan - there are lots of situations where autopilots and windvanes are simply not appropriate..
I think your price for the windpilot is a bit low. Peter Foerthmann quoted me 3100 euros last year for the smallest windpilot pacific light. Do you have any experiences with the South Atlantic windvane ? This seems to be significantly lower price.
Martin hi, I took the price from their web site so... but of course they all 'fudge' the real cost a bit and there are so many 'variations'... Thank you for the real quote...
This is an opportunity for a vane company to gift a growing channel a vane for "review".
#windvane #autopilot #selfsteering #rudder #sailing
#sailingchannel
#standbyrudder
I would settle for a wheel autopilot which is reliable... I think my ocean crossing days are gone but....... Hey who knows
@@SailingGentlymaybe solo but with good crew and rig you have years on you.
You bet! Thanks
Some info in this video is a lie and some info is left out. A windvane does NOT work in really bad weather as the waves will block the wind. It will also not work when there is no wind. It is best that every cruising boat have an AP, regardless if it has a windvane or not.
Now lets look at prices. To buy a new windvane, you are looking at around 6-8K. Most boats can get a new AP for much less than that. I just spent 8K on a new AP but it's a type 3 hydraulic AP for a big boat.
So, for the smaller boats, would you rather have 2 APs which is cheaper than an AP and Windvane? The AP will work in all conditions but the windvane will not. I'd rather have an AP that I know how it works and can replace a broken part in 5 minutes than deal with a windvane, but others just get a good feeling about having the wind steer the boat.
Then there is the problem of having it on the stern. It gets in the way of a lot of stuff, both on anchor and at sea.
Some will say APs can't be trusted and you should never rely on one. That may have been true 30 years ago, but today APs are really good and go up to 60,000 miles without a problem. Some say vanes never have any problem but that is not true either. I've heard of many stories of vanes losing a bolt at sea and not operational after that. You need to inspect them often to make sure nothing comes out.
All in all, if you can only afford one, get an AP. If you can afford 2, then it's a matter of preference. Both have pros and cons. I was thinking of getting a vane when I first started cruising. At first I could only afford 1 AP, so I installed that before leaving. Later I ran across a couple who had been cruising for 23 years and went around the world. They had both but told me the only time they used their vane was when the AP's hydraulic hose broke. Guy said he knew it was a problem but thought he could make it to NZ before fixing it. He did most of the trip on the vane to get to NZ but after that, never used it again. That was all I needed to decide to get a spare AP instead of a vane.
Thank you for your input. Different strokes for different folks and boats I guess
Great information, thankyou
Glad it was helpful! Thank you for watching
Your reviews have no equal. All in one episode. What a mess. I thought these wind devices were expensive, but they cost more than the boat. Tiller wands have no appeal to me because they constantly break. What you shouldn't be teaching is diesel generators. Mine is air cooled, light, and 3 horsepower. It's also ships propulsion at an African Queen speed. Brand new, it costs about as much as one of those stupid steering wands. You showed batteries hard wired in parallel, and they should never be hard wired in parallel. Out of the blue, I imagined a wind vane as a tiny windmill and gears. You rotate it, and it keeps applying spring trim until the boat aims right. All these wind vanes keep breaking in the TH-cams. My other concept is boat in a box. A box of ready made stuff waiting for me to rescue a smaller sailboat.
I know what you mean - the add ons can end up costing more than the boat. I have never had a windvane system fail but I have had stacks of electric autopilots fail which is why I am a bit wary of only having one of them for blue water passages.