Nice job mate. To accurately date the block next to the time clock on the rear right side there will be a cast in code like 6h1. 6 day of august 1971. The best external oil pump feed is to place a 3/4' thick plate over the original oil pump mounting face. Tapped for a 12 an fitting. And relieve the internal radius . Like you have done. Tap the front oil gallery with a 1/4" plug. Prevents the press im plug poping out. Next tip is to cresent the upper bearing register in the block and to drill an extra feed hole in the upper bearing. Creates extra flow to the rod bearings. Does not matter what happens with the external pressure or flow. Ive had great sucess with just a wet sump. Big internal pickup. Baffled trap door sump.
People forget that oil balance in L6s is an issue. We drill a hole in the side of the block to access each gallery, then tap it and provide brake fittings / bundy to join all the oil galleries together = consistent oil pressure front to back.
My engine guy has given the front main and the rear main bearings slightly more oil clearance than the centre ones. This will alleviate this issue of oil starvation to them.
One good tip I've read about,is to use a hydraulic roller cam ,but with solid lifters set at .005" lash,less lifter weight,more roller life,better harmonics,better valve control/less aggressive ramps, and without having to use monster valve springs
I noticed you have a blow out through the bore on number 1 cylinder. this was a very common problem with high HP, and boring them to .0060 th or more. We used to throw these blocks out at that stage.
@@johnzapper1652 Yeah, back in the day they were a throwaway, Now days all these blocks are 40/50 years old and finding a good core is hard. I was assured by my engine guy that it won’t be an issue. He said they usually crack between the welsh plugs on the side of the block, He also added that usually happens under constant high rpm (endurance racing) It would be cool if a company would make new castings with extra strength in those vital areas. Thanks for your comment. I’ll be uploading another video soon.
@@theworkshopmechanicchannel3296 Back in the 90's I had a blue 3.3 motor that had compression rings break on the 3rd piston. It destroyed the bore so I had it sleeved then rebuilt entire motor with Yella Terra alloy head and a gas resarch full lpg system. Tonnes of torque/hp and never had an issue with the sleeving.
Interesting build mate, luv the old reds. Are those cyl liners staying proud (fire rings?) or getting decked? I like low key channels like this, subbed. Cheers
@@donfinch862 Hi The deck has been machined to Zero deck. Those liners are super strong, way better material than the actual lock. We are currently waiting for up rated valves that should be arriving any day.
@@warlordofblood13 There are a few reasons why I grouted the block. These engine blocks are prone to cracking when you rev them between 6 to 7 thousand rpm. Grouting the block is a way to dampen the harmonics. Just think, all that mass (grout) at the bottom of the water jackets makes the block more rigid.
@@theworkshopmechanicchannel3296 thank you i see this is a hot engine would you recommend for a street use where id be hitting 6000 often? or would i run into any cooling problems in hwy use? have you encounted cooling problems?
@@warlordofblood13 I’ll be using an Aluminium cylinder head. The aluminium will dissipate the heat more efficiently than a cast iron cylinder head.. I don’t expect to have over heating issues.
YOU MAKE SURE your gudgeon pins are fully floating! The 202 earned a reputaion for piston failure because the gudgeon was so much closer to the very hot piston crown compared to the shorter stroke earlier Red Motors. This was the main reason race engine builders went back to the 186 after 202s destroyed their gudgeons & pistons. Ensure your conrods/big ends vent up to the underside of your pistons. The gudgeons only recieve oil from crank fling, so bore the rods for bronze small end bushes & get plenty of cooling oil up to them. Never heard of cam flex in a Holden. Generally, the cam tunnel has to be enlarged to allow fitment of big boxy lobes on roller cams. Steel is actually a lot more flexible than very stiff cast iron as was used in all factory red motor camshafts. But it pits & chips, so steel is best. Lose as much weight out of the valve train as you safely can & you won't need super stiff valve springs which might (but I doubt it) cause cam twist/flex. Countless thousands of Holden 6 powered touring cars managed OK with widened/enlarged sumps, proper baffles & windage trays. An expensive complex dry sump system should not be needed unless you're racing an open wheeler on high speed open curve circuits with super sticky tyres. Talk to Group N Torana racers to get the best sump design. The EH sump is very similar to the LC/LJ sump & Torana racers will have decent race prepped sumps kicking around.
@@marksmith2726 The top of the deck is going to be machined flat (zero deck height) So those sleeve protrusion’s will be gone The head gasket is a Cometic 40” thou thick. The compression ratio is going to be 10.8 to 1. Thanks for watching.
Would you like to share what conrod you intend to use. I realise you said its .400" longer. Will you need to grind the crankshaft big end down to suit the conrod.
@@GG-rj4oj Good Question No There’s no need to grind the crank shaft to suit the conrod You can actually but the correct bearings to suit. The conrods are a Honda part.
@@donfinch862so when they say an engine has been stroked and the cubic inch spec has increased they're playing with the crankshaft not the con rod/ piston/ gudgeon position??
@@DaMan1964 That is correct. Stroke is movement top to bottom of piston travel, dictated by the distance from centre of main journal to centre of big end journal, A longer rod will just set the piston higher up in the block overall. The gudgeon on this engine will bring it back down. Cheers mate
@@dmc5681 The bronze guides, the resizing of the mains and the boring of the cam bearings, I’m not sure who did that as it was out sourced from my engine builder. What I do know is that it took 2 months. There aren’t many places left that do this.
From what my father told me as a young fellow he said the red 202 engine was the worst one as they are the shorter stroke engine they had a habit of pulling tops off pistons and they run 🏃♀️ out of legs in the top end of the rev range in his EH panel van he built a highly modified 186s block witch ran a really rare genuine Bathurst cam triple Webbers steel crank balanced and blueprinted this was back in the day he also said the only other holden six engine that was any good was the 12 port black block 3.3 engine with it’s better crank and head and rods electronic dizzy
202 has the long stroke not short , at 3.25 , 186 is short stroke at 3.00 , both same bore , 202 got bigger journals . A long stroke motor like the 202 runs out of legs from high piston speed , short stroke motors rev higher as the piston speed is lower, the Black 3.3 has crank trigger ignition and no dizzy electric or otherwise, the cap is empty only a rotor . Steel cranks came in 149 and 179 s and won't fit the bigger bareings in a 202 be it black , or blue, the 202 shares bore spacing with the Ford six as do all Holden gen 2 sixes, a common stroker was a 221 Ford six crank in a 202 . The best Holden block was the red HP block , or the 186 over bored to 192 . The bigger bareings in the 202 build up more heat .Star Fire 4 cylinder rods are the best factory Holden six rods !
@@michaelbyrnes7944 no never did, sorry , only the first two red motors 149 and 179 /HP . 186 is always a cast crank , same as 130 red, 138 red , 161 red , 173 , (186)and 202, 2850/3300 . Star Fire 4 cylinder. All the newer motors , forged cranks were to expensive to make and cast cranks were found to be strong enough.
@@michaelbyrnes7944 deeply sorry but no 186 did ever , the 3 inch stroke crank was never forged ! They never had a blank for that size , forging cranks stopped mid 1960s in all manufacturing. Bar super high performance applications. 149 and 179/HP only, that's why people searched high and low for these motors for the crank . 186 is one of the newer motors . HP blocks are 179 ci . Sure you could bore it to 186 that's 0.030 over but it's still a 179 .
@@theworkshopmechanicchannel3296 The next time someone suggests the 202 is unworthy of love or investment, remind them it was a humble little Holden 202 in an LJ Torana that clobbered all the best XY GTHO Falcons in Australia at Bathurst in 1972. There are, unfortunately, great legions of ignorant dolts who know nothing & think they know everything because they grew up in a world of RB 30s & Barras. They don't know how good it feels to have the fastest car in town powered by a sensationally hot Holden 6. They don't know 6 cylinder Holdens broke records all over Aust for decades. From what you've dislosed in your commentary, this 202 will churn out at least 350 BHP if everything works as it should. Keep the weight down in the EH & you'll have a very rapid car.
@@jb7591 The most embarassing event in Aust Motor Racing History is the result of Bathurst 1972. For that simple fact alone, I wouldn't be seen dead in an E49 or a GTHO. I'd feel like a fool every time I saw an XU-1. The totally ridiculous aspect to that tragic event for Ford lovers is the fact those GTHOs that got beat at Bathurst by a factory stock series production 202 XU-1 were PHASE THREES! To cap it off, the Toranas only had Aussie 4Speeds, tiny Banjo diffs & feeble little 10 spline axles! I can still remember the GT Falcon ads on the TV from 1971. It had footage of an XY GT towing a boat over a then modern long freeway bridge. I'm sure the Falcon GT made a good tow rig. However, whenever I've needed to go anywhere in a hurry, I've used hotted up Holden sixes which were cheap to build, revved like mad, didn't turn my car into a heavy weight barge & delivered excellent fuel economy with SUs. The old Holden Six is a great little engine that responds very nicely to a little bit of love & a good one in the right car will scare the hell out of most V8 Falcons.
You couldn't be further from the truth. There are 4 companies that i know off, who make aftermarket cylinder heads for them. Billet cranks are $4400 and never in stock. Add quality rod and pistons, roller cam and lifters. Thats over 10k. A race prep head, roller rockers and triples another 10k. You see where this is going. The is it worth it argument is subjective, my point is there's heaps of people doing it. Its a sickness, beleive me. Lol
![เป็นไปได้ไหม - WanMai [Performance Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Eh5hItD4Mr0/mqdefault.jpg)
One of the great things about the Holden six's is how well they lent themselves to modification. Didn't take much to get more go from them.
Of course if one starts with nothing, anything is a improvment. Non cross flow biggest fault.
Yep a good 350 holley or even a 500 holley and a set of extractors they good good.
Nice job mate. To accurately date the block next to the time clock on the rear right side there will be a cast in code like 6h1. 6 day of august 1971. The best external oil pump feed is to place a 3/4' thick plate over the original oil pump mounting face. Tapped for a 12 an fitting. And relieve the internal radius . Like you have done. Tap the front oil gallery with a 1/4" plug. Prevents the press im plug poping out. Next tip is to cresent the upper bearing register in the block and to drill an extra feed hole in the upper bearing. Creates extra flow to the rod bearings. Does not matter what happens with the external pressure or flow. Ive had great sucess with just a wet sump. Big internal pickup. Baffled trap door sump.
The red engine was one of the best motors holden ever made. I'm sure this will be a tough engine when built.
Engine....
People forget that oil balance in L6s is an issue.
We drill a hole in the side of the block to access each gallery, then tap it and provide brake fittings / bundy to join all the oil galleries together = consistent oil pressure front to back.
My engine guy has given the front main and the rear main bearings slightly more oil clearance than the centre ones.
This will alleviate this issue of oil starvation to them.
One good tip I've read about,is to use a hydraulic roller cam ,but with solid lifters set at .005" lash,less lifter weight,more roller life,better harmonics,better valve control/less aggressive ramps, and without having to use monster valve springs
hi came across your build good work will done i love the old red six is there a update you can post ?
I noticed you have a blow out through the bore on number 1 cylinder. this was a very common problem with high HP, and boring them to .0060 th or more. We used to throw these blocks out at that stage.
@@johnzapper1652
Yeah, back in the day they were a throwaway,
Now days all these blocks are 40/50 years old and finding a good core is hard.
I was assured by my engine guy that it won’t be an issue.
He said they usually crack between the welsh plugs on the side of the block,
He also added that usually happens under constant high rpm (endurance racing)
It would be cool if a company would make new castings with extra strength in those vital areas.
Thanks for your comment.
I’ll be uploading another video soon.
@@theworkshopmechanicchannel3296 Back in the 90's I had a blue 3.3 motor that had compression rings break on the 3rd piston.
It destroyed the bore so I had it sleeved then rebuilt entire motor with Yella Terra alloy head and a gas resarch full lpg system. Tonnes of torque/hp and never had an issue with the sleeving.
Interesting build mate, luv the old reds. Are those cyl liners staying proud (fire rings?) or getting decked? I like low key channels like this, subbed. Cheers
@@donfinch862
Hi
The deck has been machined to Zero deck.
Those liners are super strong, way better material than the actual lock.
We are currently waiting for up rated valves that should be arriving any day.
never seen the grout/cement in the water jackets method, why and what are the benefits, thank you and good work:)
@@warlordofblood13
There are a few reasons why I grouted the block.
These engine blocks are prone to cracking when you rev them between 6 to 7 thousand rpm.
Grouting the block is a way to dampen the harmonics.
Just think, all that mass (grout) at the bottom of the water jackets makes the block more rigid.
@@theworkshopmechanicchannel3296 thank you i see this is a hot engine would you recommend for a street use where id be hitting 6000 often? or would i run into any cooling problems in hwy use? have you encounted cooling problems?
@@warlordofblood13
I’ll be using an Aluminium cylinder head.
The aluminium will dissipate the heat more efficiently than a cast iron cylinder head..
I don’t expect to have over heating issues.
Whats the plans for the motor as in whats it going in & what trans & diff & car
@@maxholden435
It will be going in an EH Sedan
The transmission is going to be a T5 out of an XF Falcon
I’m not sure of the diff yet,
I knew straight away before you even said, yep, 71 hq block will be neoprene seal.
I spoke to my engine guy the other day,
He said he will start on mine once again in the coming weeks
YOU MAKE SURE your gudgeon pins are fully floating! The 202 earned a reputaion for piston failure because the gudgeon was so much closer to the very hot piston crown compared to the shorter stroke earlier Red Motors. This was the main reason race engine builders went back to the 186 after 202s destroyed their gudgeons & pistons.
Ensure your conrods/big ends vent up to the underside of your pistons. The gudgeons only recieve oil from crank fling, so bore the rods for bronze small end bushes & get plenty of cooling oil up to them.
Never heard of cam flex in a Holden. Generally, the cam tunnel has to be enlarged to allow fitment of big boxy lobes on roller cams. Steel is actually a lot more flexible than very stiff cast iron as was used in all factory red motor camshafts. But it pits & chips, so steel is best. Lose as much weight out of the valve train as you safely can & you won't need super stiff valve springs which might (but I doubt it) cause cam twist/flex.
Countless thousands of Holden 6 powered touring cars managed OK with widened/enlarged sumps, proper baffles & windage trays. An expensive complex dry sump system should not be needed unless you're racing an open wheeler on high speed open curve circuits with super sticky tyres. Talk to Group N Torana racers to get the best sump design. The EH sump is very similar to the LC/LJ sump & Torana racers will have decent race prepped sumps kicking around.
Hey mate, what head gasket you running with the sleeves protruding the deck. Good video with a few good ideas.
@@marksmith2726
The top of the deck is going to be machined flat (zero deck height)
So those sleeve protrusion’s will be gone
The head gasket is a Cometic 40” thou thick.
The compression ratio is going to be 10.8 to 1.
Thanks for watching.
@@theworkshopmechanicchannel3296 Ok sounds good i figured thats what would happen, be interesting to see it run,what induction you running.
@@marksmith2726
Triple 45mm Weber’s
13:19 how much did it cost to sleeve the bores ?
@@mikekinnear3008
I think it was around $1200 with sleeves.
What sort of hp will it make
@@jamesmclntosh3017
Well the cylinder head will flow up to 341 hp
I’m pretty sure it’s going to be around that area
Would you like to share what conrod you intend to use. I realise you said its .400" longer. Will you need to grind the crankshaft big end down to suit the conrod.
@@GG-rj4oj
Good Question
No
There’s no need to grind the crank shaft to suit the conrod
You can actually but the correct bearings to suit.
The conrods are a Honda part.
@@theworkshopmechanicchannel3296 thanks
hi thanks for the vid. where abouts are you? Interested in this build cheers Andy from Riverina NSW
I’m located in Sydney.
so If you have increased the stroke by 0.4 inches you have increased the engine capacity yes? You have increased the stroke by 10.16 mm ?
@@DaMan1964
The stroke hasn’t been increased.
I’ll upload another video in the coming days to explain it a bit better
Yeh mate, stroke's not the length of the rod, it's the throw of the crank. Cheers
@@donfinch862so when they say an engine has been stroked and the cubic inch spec has increased they're playing with the crankshaft not the con rod/ piston/ gudgeon position??
@@DaMan1964 That is correct. Stroke is movement top to bottom of piston travel, dictated by the distance from centre of main journal to centre of big end journal, A longer rod will just set the piston higher up in the block overall. The gudgeon on this engine will bring it back down. Cheers mate
Hi, Who do you use for block machining in Sydney?
@@dmc5681
The bronze guides, the resizing of the mains and the boring of the cam bearings, I’m not sure who did that as it was out sourced from my engine builder.
What I do know is that it took 2 months.
There aren’t many places left that do this.
Have you increased bore size with the sleeves?
No.
We sleeved the block and it will be bored back to standard.
These sleeves are way stronger than the block.
From what my father told me as a young fellow he said the red 202 engine was the worst one as they are the shorter stroke engine they had a habit of pulling tops off pistons and they run 🏃♀️ out of legs in the top end of the rev range in his EH panel van he built a highly modified 186s block witch ran a really rare genuine Bathurst cam triple Webbers steel crank balanced and blueprinted this was back in the day he also said the only other holden six engine that was any good was the 12 port black block 3.3 engine with it’s better crank and head and rods electronic dizzy
202 has the long stroke not short , at 3.25 , 186 is short stroke at 3.00 , both same bore , 202 got bigger journals . A long stroke motor like the 202 runs out of legs from high piston speed , short stroke motors rev higher as the piston speed is lower, the Black 3.3 has crank trigger ignition and no dizzy electric or otherwise, the cap is empty only a rotor . Steel cranks came in 149 and 179 s and won't fit the bigger bareings in a 202 be it black , or blue, the 202 shares bore spacing with the Ford six as do all Holden gen 2 sixes, a common stroker was a 221 Ford six crank in a 202 . The best Holden block was the red HP block , or the 186 over bored to 192 . The bigger bareings in the 202 build up more heat .Star Fire 4 cylinder rods are the best factory Holden six rods !
@@JosephCowen-fz8vj 186s came out in the HK Monaro had a steel crank
@@michaelbyrnes7944 no never did, sorry , only the first two red motors 149 and 179 /HP . 186 is always a cast crank , same as 130 red, 138 red , 161 red , 173 , (186)and 202, 2850/3300 . Star Fire 4 cylinder. All the newer motors , forged cranks were to expensive to make and cast cranks were found to be strong enough.
@@JosephCowen-fz8vj I disagree the 186s that was in the hk Monaro and the hr x2 version had steel forged crank
@@michaelbyrnes7944 deeply sorry but no 186 did ever , the 3 inch stroke crank was never forged ! They never had a blank for that size , forging cranks stopped mid 1960s in all manufacturing. Bar super high performance applications. 149 and 179/HP only, that's why people searched high and low for these motors for the crank . 186 is one of the newer motors . HP blocks are 179 ci . Sure you could bore it to 186 that's 0.030 over but it's still a 179 .
Hi everyone
I just realised that the comments section was turned off.
It’s all fixed up.
Cheers.
You must be one in a million that would actually spend serious money on a 202.
There are guys out there that have spent way more than me.
Considering how much trial and error they experienced.
@@theworkshopmechanicchannel3296
The next time someone suggests the 202 is unworthy of love or investment, remind them it was a humble little Holden 202 in an LJ Torana that clobbered all the best XY GTHO Falcons in Australia at Bathurst in 1972.
There are, unfortunately, great legions of ignorant dolts who know nothing & think they know everything because they grew up in a world of RB 30s & Barras. They don't know how good it feels to have the fastest car in town powered by a sensationally hot Holden 6. They don't know 6 cylinder Holdens broke records all over Aust for decades.
From what you've dislosed in your commentary, this 202 will churn out at least 350 BHP if everything works as it should. Keep the weight down in the EH & you'll have a very rapid car.
@@johnbrooks9523 well said.
@@jb7591
The most embarassing event in Aust Motor Racing History is the result of Bathurst 1972. For that simple fact alone, I wouldn't be seen dead in an E49 or a GTHO. I'd feel like a fool every time I saw an XU-1.
The totally ridiculous aspect to that tragic event for Ford lovers is the fact those GTHOs that got beat at Bathurst by a factory stock series production 202 XU-1 were PHASE THREES! To cap it off, the Toranas only had Aussie 4Speeds, tiny Banjo diffs & feeble little 10 spline axles!
I can still remember the GT Falcon ads on the TV from 1971. It had footage of an XY GT towing a boat over a then modern long freeway bridge. I'm sure the Falcon GT made a good tow rig. However, whenever I've needed to go anywhere in a hurry, I've used hotted up Holden sixes which were cheap to build, revved like mad, didn't turn my car into a heavy weight barge & delivered excellent fuel economy with SUs. The old Holden Six is a great little engine that responds very nicely to a little bit of love & a good one in the right car will scare the hell out of most V8 Falcons.
You couldn't be further from the truth. There are 4 companies that i know off, who make aftermarket cylinder heads for them. Billet cranks are $4400 and never in stock. Add quality rod and pistons, roller cam and lifters. Thats over 10k. A race prep head, roller rockers and triples another 10k. You see where this is going.
The is it worth it argument is subjective, my point is there's heaps of people doing it. Its a sickness, beleive me. Lol
We miss the bird😢
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Australias version of the 454 chev...