Sexism in Korea
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- We talk about sexism in Korea. Well, we just talk about our experiences of sexism in Korea. This isn't a commentary about Korea as a whole, backed up by any polls or stats or facts or anything. We've lived here for five years: what's it been like for us? Have we experienced sexism in any way?
Let us know your thoughts on the matter as well. It's a serious topic, one that can't be done justice with just our perspective on it, so let us know what you think in the comments. We also write a bit more about it in our blog, so check that out, too.
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Dued if a guy tried dragging me into a club I'd fucking pull out my tazer.
+Madison Zelhofer Tazers are illegal in korea though, so are pepperspray, knives, guns, and anything you can really protect yourself with actually. just informative comment nothing more.
명기오 wow! That must suck! Can you atleast carry a brick in your bag and beat them with it?
there are stories of women carrying red bricks covered in newspaper in their purses to swing at threat, xD
Hahaha that's amazing
+Madison Zelhofer Just wear steel toed shoes and curb stomp those mofos
Omgosh I wish I had seen this episode when it came out. I've always hated how most dramas depict women. Either she is stupid and has to be saved by a cocky, rich guy or she is intelligent but is made out to be the villain. I noticed that when the villain is a woman, she is successful, smart, a career woman and AMBITIOUS but they make that seem like a bad thing for a woman. It really irks me and I'm so tired of the stupid heroine.
oh yes. couldn't agree more. I don't know how many dramas that I ditched after watching a few episodes because the female lead is so stupid and can barely do anything properly that she needs the male lead to do it for her. 😠
+wutdafeezy Seems pretty similar to british and american chick lit tbh
So much like Indian dramas!
''____ is a woman who is obssessed with building her muscles and exercises, one day she meets ____, who will show her priorities in life'' ... or something like that
Crash landing on you was a drama where i actually liked the female lead
when I lived in Korea, I was out shopping and this older middle aged guy just like grabbed my arm and said I should dance with him and that he'd date me. I was like 17, and I was just so creeped out. I kicked him in the leg and backed away. it was crazy because it was in broad daylight and on a busy street and no one stopped or paid us any mind.
absolutely gross!
+Siobhan-Rini Callisto that is horrible! good job defending yourself!
YUP. No one will stop and help you when this happens out here. You are virtually on your own in Korea. If you're a "non-Korea" and someone starts yelling at you, or tries to take advantage of you, even in broad daylight, you are on your own. No one will interject. Enjoy Korea ladies!
Bonnie Those people exists in other developed countries too. Korea is the most safest country in the world
Simon should correct those guys and say "hey my wife here is my business partner and it is rude where I come from for you to ignore her. We are a package deal, if you want to do business with us you will have to address both of us"
Maybe if they were in Canada and the Koreans were coming to them, but when you are in a foreign country you adapt to their customs. As a foreigner doing business in Korea, you are not just talking to the person or people that are in the meeting with you, you are talking to everyone they know or do business with. Getting a reputation of being confrontational over issues not directly related to business is a very bad thing. The better way of addressing a perceived slight would be to wait for a break in the meeting (or until the end) and then inform the most junior person of your discomfort with the situation (they will inform the boss at an appropriate time). Only the most egregious behavior should be directly addressed (insults about intelligence, sexual remarks, groping), and if you have to do so in a meeting, you can assume there will be no business with that person.
George Ford In Korea there are female business owners. They don't all just step down and let the men do it all. They have to fight harder and demand the respect their male counterparts would get automatically. It is their own country, and yet they don't say "well, that's how it's always been. I'll just deal with it".
You can demand respect without it having to come down to a confrontation. It is hard to get past someone's cultural habit, but persistence may eventually pay off.
George Ford So subtle sexism and racism should stay if it's a cultural thing? that's a pretty horrible attitude to have; all cultures change over time to adapt with better equality and rising humane standards, especially these days. Just because it's a cultural thing to have cannibalism in some places doesn't mean it's okay or shouldn't be changed, and the same can be applied to sexism and racism, when they discriminate against groups of people. You can also address these issues without becoming confrontational. I think it's horrible that Martina isn't regarded as a capable human being just because she's a woman, don't you?
George Ford
ur right! either way simon needs to say something.
I think it would be really hard for him to correct those guys because maybe it's seen as rude to correct your business partner when you're already a foreigner and you ''have to accept those things because that's Korea'' but I agree, I hope he will be bold enough to correct them some day!
I'm half asian but I live in Romania and when I first went on a vacation in Korea with some of my friends (some of them were korean) they said that they wanted to show me around at night and I said ok.We went down an alley and some random dude grads my arm and tryies to drag me somewhere. I know self defense so I grabed his arm, turning it around and putting it behind his back and said "What the fuck are you trying to do?!".He began to say something in korean and one of my friend said to let him go and I did it.The dude ran off like he was Sonic...
men target pretty women to go to there club because more pretty women more money they get. and no one does anything about it.
+Chris Drowned LMFAO!! You caught his ass gurl :'D You're a beautiful mix by the way :)
Cristina Cojocaru guuurl you go lol 💪💪💪 these dudes r crazy
lol
when simon talks about how companies only responds to him and not the both of them i like how he said "well i dont wanna do buisness with you" because it shows that he really cares about how martina is treated and how much he values martina even if he probably doesnt say that to the companies for him to think that way is really cool
So when Martina talked about the scenes of women getting pulled away by the wrist/arm in K Dramas and I thought she was exaggerating. But then I started to watch K Dramas and in all the ones (boys over flowers, love rain, secret garden, Heirs, etc.) I have seen so far it always happens, It drives me crazy when I see it. Also I know there are different types of dramas but all of the ones that have been recommended to me have a rich male lead and a poor female lead exactly as Martina said.
BOF is crap. As for 'Secret Garden', Ha Ji Won plays a stuntwoman and shows female strength. She and the male lead also switch bodies. She plays a soldier in 'King2Hearts' and is better at fighting than her partner and even saved him once.
Humanist .Chica Doesn't change the fact that in a lot of dramas, females get dragged by their wrist at some point against their will. Actually, I thought in Secret Garden it happened as well but it's been awhile since I've seen it so I can't remember. It annoys me so much when the girl doesn't fight back.
Gil Ra Im-shi is quite admirable the first few and last episode. In between she gets bothered by the hero quite a few times and lets him. Most women would have called the police already. But despite that I did enjoy secret garden. BOF I didn't like.
Gii No Jikan I actually enjoyed both of them (although neither are in my top 5) but a lot of Korean dramas do tend to have things that tick me off a little.
I have run into the same problem. It gets really annoying and old after awhile... I tend to lean towards and enjoy those Kdramas that have a strong (and at times even "bitchy") female leads. They do exist you just have to dig for them XD. I just finished Dream High and I really liked the female lead in that one.
FINALLY someone who also hates those scenes where woman are dragged away by their wrists in dramas. finally! I really hate seeing it and it's not "cool" of the guy nor romantic in any way so I don't know why it happens in dramas so often. Ugh, it's so horrible.
usedtobemyself I never enjoyed watching K-dramas for that reason. It just looks uncomfortable and honestly I would slap a bitch if they did that. Keep your hands to yourself is a primary rule we learn in elementary school....yet we have a looong way to go.
Janet Matsukevich Same.
I love k-dramas and i have seen really strong female main characters but most of the time they almost always get dragged by the wrist even if the girl asks the guy to stop.
100% agreed. we need some suzumiya haruhi scenes of a girl dragging a boy around and dominating the show like a boss.
John Park yaas omg
This video disturbed and scared me, especially the dragging Korean girls into the club. In the US, that's assault and cause for arrest. Maybe even an attempted kidnap charge.
One guy tried to do that to me, but I just kicked him in the shin and started speaking English. He tripped because he was running away so fast.
It is also an assault in Korea... Streets in Korea are a lot safer than the streets in the US. I'm telling you this as a person who lived in korea for 15 years and still visits once every 2 years and lived in the US for 16 yrs.
Why would somebody drag a girl into the club in first place wt.f... Im korean and a person wanting to have sx will usually find a partner IN the club, and club aint where you have sex in the first place... Doesnt make sense at all
blue yellow You just let them? That’s what I don’t understand you could have done something and protected yourself.
Have ya'll considered making longer videos? I can't imagine any of your fans disliking being able to see MORE of you! Please consider it! 7-8 minutes with Martina and Simon are just NOT ENOUGH! EVERYONE: PLEASE THUMBS THIS UP SO THEY CAN SEE IT! We want longer videos, EYK!
Definitely agree! But instead of it being them two joking around (which is very entertaining to a certain degree), focus more on the content :)
I love everything you said in this video! Korea is changing, but the problem is tackling underlying "invisible" sexism and the overly patriarchal structure. That smoking thing you addressed is SO SPOT ON. Even my Korean parents who've pretty much become all Americanized still have that old Korean mindset that girls shouldn't smoke, but it's okay for guys to. And that thing with Martina not being acknowledged is also very relevant because even in variety shows, girl guests are pretty much the "accessory" and aren't expected to talk much, but if they do and if their personality isn't sweet/cute or if they're a bit boisterous, netizens tend to be SO negative and harsh on them. I think that's because these shows have ingrained in people's minds that women should be demure and elegant at all times (giggling at all the men's jokes, covering their mouth when they laugh, keeping a straight back and legs together, pretending to "blush" to indicate their modesty, etc), although Lee Hyori from FO and Song Ji Hyo from RM don't get this hate because they've had time through many episodes to let the facets of their personality be gradually accepted by the public. But yeah anyway, I laughed at 4:15 "I don't wanna do business with you...." LOL. And the "dropped her like a hot potato" comment just killed meXD
I just got back form doing business in Korea. I found it really awkward when executives of big companies wouldn't shake my hands in meetings. It got to the point where I could stick my hand right in their face and force them to shake it and they would always look at me with such surprise, shake my hand, and then go back to pretending I didn't exist. It's especially weird because I was the one communicating with them via email for weeks prior to our meetings!
Hi there! Is it okay if I use your statement in an essay I am writing???
Shaking hands can be creepy and predatorial according to some feminists so hes probably one
Korea is ahead in technology but culturally they are still in the 1960's
*****
the economy in Korea isn't booming though... good tech =/= booming economy
***** And so was overt racism, segregation, lynchings, legalization of marital rape and gay bashing...also were existent during this time.
Nahala Wing " culturally they are still in the 1960's"
you do know that culture is what you started your land with and forever will always be with you, culture don't die. in america it's a different thing cos they have no culture to begin with.
KeySomniorum culture doesn't change unless you have no culture to begin with, like america and those other countries that started with stealing
KeySomniorum culture is something that shows what type of country and people there are. if your culture is respecting the elders and being respectful to your parents no matter what they do or what age you are that won't ever change unless the media tries to change that and poke some holes into your culture. your culture is your food, your manners, your tradition,religion,language,accent,behavior, habits etc etc, that won't ever change again unless the media poke holes into it, the elders won't be effected they will always have their culture and tradition with them. that's what i mean by culture and how it won't ever change unless you already have no culture to start with. which many places have no culture they started their land with crimes and they came from somewhere else
The technology of 2050 but the mentality of 1950. You can't describe Korea better than that.
I was once with a Korean girl in my dorm, having some drinks with my friends, and at one point she asked me if I knew where she'd left her glass. Since it was closer to me, I stood up, reached it and handed it to her. Such a simple gesture, right? It meant nothing to me, but she was shocked. She said a Korean man would've never done that.
That's just one example, of course. But, still, Koreans have a long way to go if they wanna get to the 21st century.
That's a really interesting story owo
When she said that a Korean man would have never done that, did she mean that a Korean man would have not cared or gestured and expect her to get the glass herself, or give her a different one and trick her into drinking something else?
I believe she meant that a Korean man wouldn't have bothered to stand up and reach the glass for her, but would've expected her to get the glass herself.
Man that really gives a whole new perspective, for her to not even expect someone to pass a glass over. Thanks for the insight!
-__- you had just an interaction with one Korean girl. I don't believe what you're saying is entirely true but even if it was true, she's the weird one. Sexism definitely exists in Korea just like it still exists in any other country. I also agree that it's a bit worse in some aspects but I don't think at least US is any better in that regard.
+Chamist S You're right that this one example won't make a case. No one should generalize Koreans by that alone. But you're wrong that I had just one interaction with one Korean girl. I lived in Seoul, Korea for 2 years, and I've had many Korean friends before that.
I went to college in Seoul. I have also worked for a big Korean company. I've seen it from the inside. Sexism is bigger in Korea than in any other country I know (which is something, 'cause I've been all over the place).
The girl I talked about, I met her in an university in US which we both attended. She is actually one of the most open minded Koreans I know. I don't think she's the weird one at all.
Anyway. This video does a better job of exemplifying sexism in Korea than I think I could.
PS If you are even being held by your wrists and can't break away, you take your hand and make a fist. Whatever side the attacker's palm is on, you do a QUICK and FORCEFUL windmill motion with your arm as you also step back. This knocks them off their balance while also immediately freeing your wrist. Take whatever aggressive action might be needed if attacker is not thwarted--- heel of hand to nose, fingers to the eyes,knee to nose or groin, or stomp their foot with your heel, and haul ass outta there once you're sure they won't chase you.
+Heidi Hudgins
Thanks, the windmill motion seems like good advice.
Keep your hand open (not fisted). It's easier to escape.
Heidi Hudgins
Lmao this isn't a fantasy movie😂
im really happy Martina looks a little pissed here. :) like good, im pissed too.
I used to be an exchange student in Korea. I agree that it is frustrating how the country has technology of the 2050s, but the Korean people have the mentality of the 1950s. I would always see Korean men doing crazy stuff: spitting on the floor, grabbing women, smoking right next to signs that say no smoking, and coughing and sneezing without turning their head. Korean women would just walk by that and not say anything. It seemed as though women in Korea did not have the right to an opinion.
As some people are saying, in Korea it's seen as rude and almost predatorial? to even interact with another man's girl... Which is stupid and honestly very objectifying because they often paint women as a "man's object" which no one else can touch.... But yeah as a Korean girl you learn early on that you need to be really really loud and firm to get anywhere or to make men listen :(
I don't know if this is actually about sexism, but in Seoul I saw so many girls acting in front of their boyfriends. And with acting I mean all this cutesy stuff and that she needs to be constantly protected by her strong man. In Myeongdong I saw a girl whining and being at the verge of crying... because of a bird, who landed about 2m away from her on the ground and she didn't stop whining until her boyfriend chased the poor bird away. I also saw lots of girls acting overly cute in front of the boys and it was so obvious that it was fake, I was wondering if the men even noticed... And I asked my male korean friend about that and he said, actually korean guys don't like it that much when a girl acts totally helpless and overly cute, because it's not her real self, indeed SHE ACTS. He said that many korean men generally like girls who are confident, but girls tend to think that men like that stuff. Could be because of korean dramas or music videos or girlgroups in general, I don't know...
Manon M Lol @ the bird story!!!!!
+Manon M I think that's a part of it because it's like the ideal type of girl, like most of the girls are expected to be submissive and acting cute and weak...that's make me so mad. that's why i hate all this aegyo stuff erk
+Ame I don't like aegyo either...well, the fake one you see in most K-Pop mvs or what these girls do. There is a thin line between "real aegyo" and "fake aegyo". Some people are just naturally cute, may it be their look or how the normally behave. It's pretty easy for me to see when someone fakes something, that's why I don't like some idols' personalities...they act too much like "I'm soooooo down to earth, look at me how normal I am" and they exaggerate so much, but I feel like I'm the only one, who notices this (that's why I don't say which idols I mean to prevent myself from being hunted down by delusional fans). But I think nowadays Korean girls don't do that aegyo thing as much as they used to do.
Manon M yeah I was talking about faking to be cute and weak thing lmao and it's not like they don't know it's fake because they ask for it from their girlsfriends like wtf??? but yeah hope it's fading away because it's meh
+Ame There is actually a saying
"A girl who is nice is better than than a pretty girl.and a girl who can cook is better than a nice girl."
WTF? so, ppl just drag girls into a shady club and no one cares? That is literally harassment. I've never heard something of this sort! I hope this sort of outlook is changing in South Korea. Girls of South Korea, stop being so submissive!
Wth? I was so surprised when i heard that too!
lklklkok True. But thats only gonna happen if people actually stand up and reprimand them!
One time, my friends and I were in K-town in NYC, and there are always lots of Korean guys standing around smoking outside the stores there at night, and a really pretty Korean girl was walking down the street and one of the guys just tried to grab her right then and there, but she like knew it was coming cause she just stepped away from them before they reached her and walked into the store we were in without even batting an eye. Most bizarre thing I ever saw.
I'm just as shocked as you guys. Seriously, if that were to happen to me, I'd beat the shit outta them.
D-Walker HAHAHAHAHA
What the fuck :0 thats so awfull! When you said they drag girls into clubs my jaw literally dropped to the floor :D isnt that illegal??? I can see why they dont try that shit with foreign girls, try that with us and you will end up with a palm print on your face :)
Damn right ;)
+Erika True ♡
Or a few thousand dollars worth of hospital bills >:-)
+Zicki Vu A few thousand dollars for a slap in the face? Fine, but I'm sure I can sue for assault and harassment if you try to force me, physically, to do something I do not consent to and you can pay for my few thousand dollars worth of hospital bills for my wrist that you applied a lot of pressure to.
+No better names sigh I absolutely hate it when I say what's supposed to be super obvious and not 100% serious and people make a huge, long tangent in reply. Please calm down, I meant the few thousand dollars in conjunction to the palm print on the face. Do I make myself clear?
I love how Martina is just ranting in such a great way and Simon is nodding and smiling, like yup yup she will fuck you up she's so cute this is the best.
Martina, you are such a role model. Both you and Simon are people I look up to.
That's not right. The younger generation needs to change this in Korea. SPEAK UP! If I ever do business in Korea or anywhere else for that matter, you best believe I wouldn't take anything less than respect. You better shake my hand, look me in the eyes, and acknowledge my existence becuase I do exist, I am human, and without women like me, you wouldn't even be shaking my hand right now. SO RESPECT. Cultural differences are fine, but don't get cultural differences confused with dysfunctionality. It's not normal for any culture or society for that matter to be sexist, racist, discriminatory, etc. That isn't how things should be so people shouldn't accept it in any soceity. I see inequalities like these as what they are inequalities that ruin people and destroy lives.
Casandra Lopez Thank you for this comment. You said it perfectly.
I think the problem is the culture group in korea. It is really strong. You have to do what everyone do. And the age thing I hate it. There is so much hate if you don´t follow what an elder said even if he is one year older
Im chinese and your discussion of how koreans ignore wives of guys simply ECHOES my experience of chinese business! Im female and from HK, and I feel how disgusting that cultural practice is T.T
I met an amazing Korean guy and the first thing he said when I asked him what type of women he likes and he said "I like women who listen to me and cook for me." I found this strange because I also grew up in Canada xD
Gotta adapt to culture
mona rehman Oh yeah I know, it'll be a big change. I'm moving there in a year though so it'll be a nice culture shock
사만다 매 왓슨 western culture is very diffrent so if you face some sexism remmber it might no be sexism in korea
Also what that guy said wasnt sexist he just wants a good chef and a good listener I think you misunderstood it
I never said it was sexist, I said it was strange xD
사만다 매 왓슨 I dont get why you would find that strange tho lol
This is so interesting to hear about. In America and the UK if you were to grab someone by their wrist, chances are you aren't going to have a hand anymore lol
They'd be beaten by the girl or bystanders, branded as pedophiles, and maybe arrested. xD
Tonyelf437 we do not put up with that here lol
I also realized that in kdramas, it's always the guys that are good at school and the girls are the ones having difficulty. I've seen this a lot and it kinda makes me angry
I'd struggle not to follow the bouncer into the club and beat him up for treating a woman like that XD
In Australia we have no tolerance for that at all
If you did you'd be charged with assault, or you'd have to pay compensation to the guy you assaulted. It would be a lot, like at least 5 million Korean won. Happened to a Canadian guy I know, actually. He didn't get a criminal record or didn't get kicked out of Korea because he agreed to pay the compensation.
you guys are a fuckin buzz kill u know that
Sarz93 agreed
Alternatively if you are 'allowed' to do this I would follow her in grab her by the wrist and take her outside and past their club. (If she looked unwilling) I would have to resist the urge to get all up in the bouncers face but I don't think picking a fight with a professional strong arm would help me any. Maybe its an Aussie thing but we don't shy away from stuff like that. If you don't at least try to help you better hand your man-card over.
i literally agree with this so much - like if any bouncer tried to do that to any girl in Australia, not only would she probably put up a hella good fight but every other aussie guy around would more than likely knock the lights out the bouncer for doing such a thing.
A lot of guys in college admired my mom's outgoingness and assertiveness. She was also considered witty and made a lot of money, so guys couldn't mess around with her. Sexism is still much prevalent in Korea (ugh), but there are guys out there who like the dominant, non-pushover girl. Or just don't date Korean-raised men. :p
Wow! If i saw a girl get dragged into a building against her will I would follow her and tear that bouncer another one! that is so not ok :(
When I go to korea I hope someone tries to drag me into a club. Like its dark outside and i have like on a big hoodie so you cant tell im a foreigner and they grab my wrist and i just look at them and give them the look of death and there like holy crap. So basically my goal is to scare some tough/strong looking korean guy.
Sexism is everywhere. It's just everywhere.
LOL next time a company e-mails Simon, you should let Martina write the answer with something like "sorry my husband can't answer right now but here's what you need to know" as a p.s.
I wonder how they would answer to that XDDD
Yeah women are indeed not taken as serious as guys in the world all together. even if it's worse in some countries than others. more social and economic equality is definetly necessary worldwide. Thank you for bringing up the topic guys
90 percent of the people I've met here in Korea are really cool. I do think this is changing with the new generation. Or perhaps I'm just hangin' wiht the best peeps in Korea :P
So many things in the pop culture of South Korea suck :(
I would love to help one of those girls being dragged though. Makes my blood boil.
Oh, don't help the girls who are dragged by the waiters because they might act like they don't want, but those girls might enjoy that situation at the same time. Plus those waiters ONLY pick/drag some girls by the wrist if she's pretty. Yes, you won't get dragged by the wrist if you aren't pretty. If she doesn't want "that bad", she will let the waiter knows that she is not interested.
YES WHEN THE GIRLS ARE DRAGED IM OUT HERE YELLING "STOP MAN HANDLING HER, LIKE WTF MAN, SHE DOESNT WANT TO BE DRAGED!"
Also the one scene in Secret Garden when he throws her against the changing room wall... that is violence sir! I will sue you. SUE YOU I SAY.
then why you obsessed with korea?
Korean dramas are not the entire part of Korea. Besides, she may like some dramas or certain aspects of dramas , but it doesn't mean that she likes all dramas and she definitely doesn't like the overly dominant asshole male lead characters that are heavily present in k-dramas. The same holds true for everything. You can like a lot of different things about a certain thing, but not all of it. I have to say I too have stopped watching k-drams because I got sick of the wrist grabbing, insulting male leads. No way are you my man buddy.
+Chelsea Bisenius I really dont like those kind of men. If anybody has seen Doctors or Dear Fair Lady Kong Shim then I really like those male leads. They have more charisma and aren't the douchebag type.
Im ok when every once in awhile they grab the wrist, just not violently or agressovely.
+Kpop Addict aggressively*
I see it in the Korea Drama's too. My mom used to have a korean boss. He would only call her Mr.
lol!!
I talked to my mom about that, and I found out more. She was a Mr. on all the letter heads. When he'd see her he would always act shocked. But he also sent us a bunch of gifts from his travels in Japan and when he was home in Korea. Ginseng was something we had a lot of stock of from him.
Just so you know, Martina, I plan on enacting this 'reversal'! It's actually funny that I'm watching this video today because I was just telling my friends a few days ago how one of my dastardly Korean vacation plots is to hit up a club and drag a guy onto the dance floor by his wrist. YOLO? ;P
I remember one of my old boyfriends tried to drag me down the street so I reversed the situation and pulled the other way and pulled him the way I wanted to go.
JUSTICE.
I live in Suwon, near a night life district. I have seen various instances where men are trying to pull girls by the wrist down a street, or into a car. I also once saw two university-aged students carrying (literally carrying with her arms over their shoulders on either side) an intoxicated girl into a love hotel, only to walk out of it (likely due to rejection from management) and head to the next one 10 meters away. I have seen, occasionally, other questionable, rape-like things, too.
Also, nearly every morning, weekend or weekday, there is fresh vomit spewed across and around the main nightlife ally where I live.
Me thinks there are some things a bit off about Korea. I'm scared and I want to go home to my mommy!!!!
When I first traveled to Korea, I was wandering in Hongdae along. Somebody just grasped my wrist, dragged me back and spoke some Korean to me. It seemed that he wanted to show me some sample and sell me something. I was really frightened. People just don't physically touch strangers in the other countries. When I started speaking English, said that I don't know what he was talking about. He started to apologize immediately. But it was just so awkward and definitely not a good memory.
Geez the idea of being pulled into a club is terrifying. Its also important to note that almost all countries have degrees of sexism integrated into society. Including us "Progressive States" of Canada and the US. It may not always be as forward, but it can be subtle and pervasive. Especially when you broaden sexism to include diverse genders and transphobia.
I find it funny that from everywhere, theres always men complaining about the women in their own country (as if they are all isolated), and that the womens groups there want "more rights". They want a full glass of water. Yours is full. The waiter filling their glass to match yours isn't "more rights" its just rights that you already have and haven't even noticed the luxury of, because you've never had to deal with not having them. Like you don't realize how good having electricity is until it goes out.
I thought this video was good! It is interesting to notice how places like Korea and Japan can be so advanced in some ways, but still so traditional. I've heard some scary things about it, such as groping and being hauled into clubs, but then....I've heard scary things from nearby as well. Its easy to label sexism and misogyny to somewhere far away, without addressing the ingrained problems within your own home.
This is such a good video! thank you for sharing that, i had no idea, i really like korean culture, it's nice to know these aspects too.
lol as a viewer of Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, I LOVE it when Kimmy drags men around. she's so strong because of the crank 😂😂😂 #FemalesAreStrongAsHell
what would happen if a foreigner or someone who wouldn't be dragged into a club tried to stop and help someone who was being dragged in? it seems for this to be normal in Korea, but what might a Korean woman think about being dragged into a club that they didn't intend to go to?
if anyone has seen thailand dramas and how poorly the girls are treated its nothing compared to kdramas like literally 8 out of 10 thai dramas show a scene of a girl getting raped. its so common from the dramas i have watched some of the main lead girls even end up falling for the guy that raped them... like really? Also i believe I saw a scene of a girl getting pulled in to a club in a Japanese drama maybe not but I was so pissed off when I saw that. One last thing some of the kdramas i have seen the mains sometimes beat the living hell out of some of the guys so why do the guys still treat them like that?
That's why thai people watch A LOT of korean dramas because I HATE IT and people hate it. I don't watch thai drama because its nonsense story.
noppawan khunnasarn and if you've watched new qualified dramas in last 2 years, rape doesn't exist or didn't famous because people resist it.
Are you serious? Have you seen Sanaeha Sunya Kaen( sweet promise of revenge)? wasn't that made like 2014? and I actually enjoy some of them I mean Thai dramas aren't up there with Korean dramas or american but there not too bad when there isn't any rape in the plot.
in the some of the Filipino movies I'd seen recently that were supposedly really popular, the guy would call the girl ugly or call her a f-ing b*tch and she still would end up with him like it's so romantic and stuff. If that was in an episode in the U.S. the girl would have b-slapped the dude into oblivion.
yodastar26 lol ain't that right?? That's were the US is awesome but not 100% cuz us girls need to stop calling each other the B word or make it like the N word where only girls can say it but if a guy says it it's like a bomb waiting to go off.
That's the reason why I'm not too into Kdrama. It's the same submissive help me I'm the damsel in distress type of girls and needed to be rescued by the man. The theme is so prevalent in Kdrama and I guess it's because their culture is pretty similar.
maybe they are ignoring martina because they think it will be disrespectful to simon or something because you 2 are married and they think it would be like oh if i talk to her too much the husband might not be ok with it ?
i don't know but yeah
i think it's not the case. Like even though they are married, they were talking about business and were both in charged of it, so why not speak to both of them?
zelo ceekay I think it's more gender role shit again haha...... Women are suppose to be more reserved and support from the side .... I don't support this but it is pretty set in the previous generation in many asian ideal???? I don't know... My parents themselves believe this and yeah they are trying to get my sisters in an arranged marriage so.... My parents are a bit old fashioned o.o
***** yeah o.o i'm pretty sure that they have been married for a while
Diven Chen I agree with you. I know my married female friend had a same experience in Korea. On the other hand, as a single foreign girl in Korea, I didn't have these problems. For ex., we attended the same class together and everybody would consider my opinions etc, but she was always ignored whenever her husband was there. Yup, Korea is still very traditional society.
Nina ait dammou Yeah Ive noticed that from immigrants comming here. The girls are usually really nice but the guys are super sexist and act like little kids when they dont get the respect they think they deserve xD
I've seen that on a documentary when they were filming bouncers literally pulling women into their clubs... I find it so disgusting .. If anyone of them tried that on me I'd kick them in the balls! Don't get got!
What's the documentary called? please
It's a short film made by a tourist (i think) that was filming the whole thing. It's called "Bikkis sexually harass women in Seoul" (I know it's a long title lol) hope you can gain some knowledge from it.
+FreedomWriter thanks
I am surprised about the comments, the people (girls/women) seem to be clueless about their own situation.
I know you might be shocked, but there's a lot of sexism in Western countries too :P
You cannot see it clearly because you live it every day, but there is sexism in America and Europe too.
Just one clear example: what about the wage gap between men and women doing the SAME job?
Marco Ronchetti actually, people who truly believe the wage gap argue it's actually from women making individual choices and that the actual gap is men and women having the same work experience and education end up in different jobs, thus calling it sexism. i haven't heard of female miners being paid less for the hourly wage than a man in the same position. but go ahead and link one example to me.
Tom Tinker Objectification of women on the media
Marco Ronchetti
and that's relevant to what i said how?
Marco Ronchetti There is no wage gap. Men are objectified just as much.
There is sexism. You're just looking at the wrong places.
*****
ironic how people say we live in a culture that values men over women, but don't seem to care that men get ignored and most revolutions are centered on how women are suffering from it.
[I completely understand that this isn't all of (South) Korea], but this is outrageous! Seriously! Women, seriously! Fight back!
I find it outrageous and creepy and cruel that a guy would just drag a girl by her wrist and be completely dominant and insensitive to the girl.
(I apologize the probable majority of South Korea that most likely doesn't do this.)
I also apologize for spastically typing out a rant.
+Rachel Kirk no problemo i think it's weird and creepy and im korean.
명기오 ok
Dude, it's not about forcing women to fight back! It's about teaching men to NOT BE SEXIST OR CREEPY. TBH just teach everyone not to be sexist, but don't blame or make it about women not fighting back.
+Julia Schneider I completely agree.
It is a patriarchal society but even patriarchal societies around the world are not as sexist as Korea. I chalk it up to the insecurity of Korean men who use their culture as an excuse to abuse and demean women.
I am Korean but I lived in US for 10 years and went back to Korea to visit. I was shocked when a employee tried to get me into a club and he totally changed his attitude when I spoke in English.
It so true that they try not to reach out to foreign girls, but they should just not do this in general. It's a violation of someone's safety.
that "only talk to a man" things and shake hand things also happen here in Indonesia, and i've been treated as such, it's unacceptable..
To clarify on the misunderstanding I'm seeing from many comments below, the bouncers are not forcingly dragging you in a scary way. I agree that pulling them in is not a proper way to invite customers, but don't worry, they let go if you clearly say no. I'm not trying to defend the guys who do that, but I just want to tell you that it's not like how criminals are trying to abduct you by forcing you into a car and drive off. Plus, women do it as well. I've heard women are admitted into clubs for free of charge in Korea (not entirely sure though), so the bouncers are trying to convince them to come in because it's free and they have nothing to lose. And the reason they let go of foreign women is probably because the bouncers can't speak the foreign languages, not necessarily because they think foreign women are tougher.
the cool thing about Korea is that women stand up for themselves
yeah.. i don't know any korean (or even asian) people who would disagree with this. just in general asian culture tends to be more conservative, community-oriented, and patriarchal. not to say that there aren't people who disagree with this view; there are plenty, but mostly they'll be younger/more western-influenced (easy to guess). what i find interesting is that from what i've seen personally, a lot of the sexism in the older generation comes from reflex. not that i think that justifies it. also i'd say north americans beating ppl up for grabbing their wrists is an exaggeration (though depends who you grab LOL) but you'll definitely get a dirty look, probably some response like "what the fuck?!" etc., and if you refuse to let go.. that's when shit's gonna go down LOL.
This actually happened to me in America and by a non Asian person. I run my own shop and a customer (male) comes in. I asked if he needed help and he started talking to my boyfriend and said he wants to talk to "the man" and completely ignored me.
extremely eye-opening and well done video!
being a newcomer to your channel (I've been subscribed for a while but I've barely started watching), my first impression was that you guys were 5 year olds trapped inside grown adult bodies however these TL;DR vids are absolutely great. I love the unbiased approach you have when it comes to being a foreigner and speaking about rather controversial topics.
I wish we could re-do some TLDR's with more of SooZee and Leigh's inputs. I'd like to hear what SooZee has to say about what her family expects from her and such. Because she seems very carefree and like a 'modern' woman, but might still have to face these sort of pressures a little.
I know why dragging is ok and why business "men" only shake hands with Simon. (by the way, I'm completely against it. There's no way I would allow this happen to me.)
As they were saying in the video, girls are supposed to "act" submissive in Korea. If not, they are considered as sluts... generally speaking. Therefore, in bars and clubs, girls don't really get out there and hunt(?) for guys even though they want to meet guys and hang with them. Bouncers know this - that's why they drag girls to clubs and have them sit with guys. Girls pretend they don't like it but they allow bouncers do this at the end and meet guys that way. This is so strange to me even though I was born and raised in Korea. Never really liked the nightlife there.
Also about handshaking, touching a girl's hand is kind of taboo-ish thing for a guy and visa versa, so maybe that's one of the reasons why they shake hands with Simon only. But still I'd be feeling totally discarded if that happened to me.
So weird how it's ok for a bouncer to grab a girl's hand and to drag her to a club but a businessman doesn't shake hands with a businesswoman.
I will still love my country but... There are many things I don't agree in their society. No wonder I left.
i love your channel. its like talking about other country culture n in this case, korea it is n its actually fun! i love this kind of stuffs
Someone commented on a situation in Poland with no acknowledging the girl... it might be just a different part of Poland or a different society but where I grew up, ignoring the girl is very, very rude and simply suggests the person is boorish and has bad manners (bad family/background). In fact most of people seem to acknowledge the woman more, even if they actually have business with the man... it's not as common anymore but when I was younger I saw quite often men kissing the woman's hand when greeting instead of shaking(happened to me too when I was like 10 yo ;) ), especially when her partner was beside... guess to show respect/something like admiration/or that they too think the wife is as precious as they believe the husband think especially so he can see that the wife is respected and given attention to. I'd say I only once saw and experienced when a girl was ignored (me) and when he left my family all agreed that he was "a peasant".
In Germany it's similiar. When you greet people and shake their hands you have to shake the woman's hand first. If you don't, people will tell you that you have to shake the woman's hand first.
Julia Steiwer Um, I'm German and I've never heard this before as a rule??? In which backward part of Germany do you live???? Most people don't even shake hands anymore, unless on business or with old people.
Might be that it's different now, but I remember that people first shake the woman's hand and if they don't, they even apologized.
But sadly it seems like it has changed to not having any skin contact at all.
"oh I just ate a jar of pickled butt holes" best explanation ever.
You guys always have such great, informative videos ^^
Thanks for all your hard work!
I wanna go to Korea and become like the anti rape super hero. I'm a 6 foot 200 pound brown belt and I doubt most men would try to rape a chick in front of me. I'd also help old lady's clean. ahhh the things I would do if I was the son of a rich person lol.
Rape is a much bigger threat in western countries than countries like Japan and Korea. Every country has its flaw.
that's not really true. Unfortunatrly rape happens in all countries, the difference is that people in more patriarchal and sexist countries don't speak up about it because they'd be blamed like hell or completely ignored/made fun of (not like it doesn't happen in western countries, it does too). Many times, they wouldn't even know they've been raped because of the sense that they 'owe' everything to men, they should do anything a man wants because of the idea of inequality between the sexes.
Fair point. It is rape, it's just not labelled as such.
I don't know why you are even talking about rape. That's not mentioned in the video at all. They bouncers are just dragging girls into the clubs in a miguided attempt to be friendly, hoping that they'll have a chat and dance. Korea is such a law abiding place. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I;m just saying you've changed the subject.
+Frances Obolensky "to be friendly"? no. they are assaulting women who they perceive as weaker and more submissive. touching someone without express consent is assault. dragging someone away from their friends and forcing then to enter an unknown place is almost kidnapping. they aren't doing it to be friendly; they're doing it because it's their job and Korean women are supposed to be submissive and do whatever a man tells her to. not rape but still assault
Simon and Martina, I know this is gonna sound weird, but I asked my Dad about this experience you've gone through (btw my dad is A business man in Korea). He explained that it is Simon's duty to inform the other business partner of Martina's position in the business. If not, your partner will assume her as a minor escort employee that works for Simon.
Jason L So, can a woman run her own business without experiencing these sexism episodes?
Jason L Shouldn't any company working with them already have done their research and know that she's a partner? Also, that is the epitome of sexism to just assume that a women in a high level business meeting is a minor employee just because she's a woman. I've heard of the same thing happening to my friends mothers in America, but never to this extent and it is always recognized as blatant sexism.
+Marco Ronchetti She could be loud and proud and declare herself with her name, position in company, and her company.
+Jason L I am a woman engineer in Europe. I worked with a very known Korean Car Manufacturer. The first time I was there I was introduced as the "expert" and I never had any problems of the Korean men doubting my position. I was more sensitive to Europeans who were always making fun of the fact that I was a woman. From my experience, I can certainly say that you are right about being introduced properly.
Jason L famn escort?! Sexism at its finest, just because shes a woman.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU
I'm a Korean that grew up in Seoul and my entire life I've been like WTF this kind of treatment (being ignored, being dragged away, etc) is NOT OKAY but everyone else was like, "... ??? watchoo talkin bout. dis is normal."
It makes me feel SO MUCH BETTER that you guys have felt the same way. The next time I call someone out for trying to drag away ANYONE (female or male) I'm reassured that I'm not a crazy B; I'm respecting the human right to walk down a street unsolicited
I know this comment fit with the video but Martina looks so gorgeous in this video!
Well, not to excuse the behaviour of Koreans toward women, esp since I have experienced the pain from that myself,and I have seen a lot of sexism. but I will say that I do think part of the reason for men not to shake hands and address Martina etc directly is the cross gender touching experience. Korea is not much of a touching culture in general and i think that a man shaking a woman's hand or acknowledging the woman in a couple will be taken the wring way, like hes trying to accomplish something or be inappropriate. I know its not objective true, and all the rest of stuff is pretty darn bad, but in terms of touch and looking, that's kinda where I think it goes.
It is more often than not that exploration, curiosity, and competition are the main focus of the field. How could many of the fields you pointed out have developed without these three? I'm glad there's someone with a good head on their shoulders somewhere on the internet.
Simon I love your safety goggles.
When I'm at other Country ... the first thing I do is ... wanna respect their Culture..
And compare with other countries will be out of my lists...
It's really interesting what you guys are doing. From a Korean + international student perspective, I can TOTALLY relate to how you guys feel and think because I feel the same way! There is a LOT of sexism in Korea and I'm glad you guys addressed it! :))
Martina, you look so purdyyyy. Love your outfit in this video.
Maybe the reason why they didn't talk to Martina or he didn't shake her hand because she was married to Simon and they didn't wanna insult him by greeting "his woman" since Korea is conservative but that's just a thought, the email thing was ridiculous though
I believe your experiences are quite honest and you should not be bothered. I too have experienced some prejudice based on my gender in ASIA. I FEEL YOU BRO. this topic was touchy but kudos for the great video!
Whether it be hosts or brand representatives, if they are male, what you were inferring to in your video might be correct.
But the main reason is not because they are looking down on you and seeing women as inferior. It is because handshakes are just not as commonplace as they are in Western countries. In US, when we first meet somebody in a semi-professional or professional setting, we'll shake their hand. In Korea, we'll bow. Thus, since the whole "shaking the hand" concept is not as common, some people are just careful to initiate a handshake.
Especially because the shows that you come out on or the meetings you attend, you are accompanied by your husband. They are most likely not shaking your hand out of courtesy because in Korea, men simply do not shake somebody's wife's hand or touch them at all.
Really? :D ...maybe it's not sexist, and it's just their culture and we've seen things differently. I'm Indonesian woman, there's part on my traditional culture that having an eye contact with different sex when chatting means aren't polite, especially if he/she with his/her husband/wife. Nowadays, since we understand that some foreigners think that we've been rude to them if we don't make eye contact, so.. we make eye contact. Lol. Just consider that in other part of the world, when an opposite sex doesn't make an eye contact with you while you're both chatting, means he/she having a respect for you. :)
I think that maybe the reason why guys don´t talk directly to Martina is because that is considered disrespectful because they might think Simon would get upset. I used to work in an international company and I was told not to talk to females when there was a man present because she might be his wife or girlfriend and he might think I was flirting with her and my female co-workers were told the opposite so they should not talk directly to a man if there was a female with him for the same reason. I live in Chile and i was told that this rules was even more important in the case of asian couples or groups. So i think it is stil a kind of sexism just not only related to females but also to males.
I didn't get a scene in a Korean movie when a random waiter dragged a girl in to a club. I was just like 'what! is that the writers idea of trying to move the plot along, because it really doesn't work.' now I get it. it's so stupid though, I wish all cultures would get over old fashioned minarets. like in my family, there are four sisters and one brother, and the girls and mum aren't allowed to start our meals until the boys are served and because there are more girls, we end up getting less food. culture is just stupid.
tech of 2050 with mentality of 1950... sounds perfect!
I miss these times. Love you guys!
Pulling girls into clubs? Jesus christ. Isn't that assault here? Even if the girl happens to be ok with it, the boy won't always know if the girl is or not and that makes his actions wrong. Disgusting. The men should learn to approach women with respect even if the underlying idea is sexual, and the women should probably take some useful fighting classes so if they happen to end up in that situation and aren't okay with it they can escape and/or fend for themselves.
if a guy ever did that to me I would put him on the ground so fast it would make his head spin
I'm still interested in visiting Korea, but now I feel like maybe I should wait a couple decades for there to be fewer things that a Westerner might find offensive.
Anyone sorta wish they could go to Korea and for some one to try pull them into the club but instead you show them that they shouldn't be fucking with you by going all ninja on their ass? And like just showing them how wrong it is.
ISN'T there a female president?
Yes
jake cohen Is that supposed to mean they aren't sexist...? You can have a female president in a sexist culture. Pretty much all cultures are sexist, and many of them have female leaders.
jake cohen doesn't matter. it just means things a lot more harder for a woman in a powerful position when the country is sexist
+jake cohen It's the same thing in Jamaica. Until literally three days ago the prime minister was female, but the country is still disgustingly sexist. It makes no difference at all.
her dad was huge sexist but patriotic president so she became president with his fathers voters. thanks for breaking that glass ceiling for young girls out there lol
Because's it's simonandmartina and the channel wouldn't exist without martina. Good job.
Yes Soozee!!!!
This is one thing that really bothers me about Korean culture. Gender roles are so "stiff" both for women and men. Women are pressure to be cute, Beautiful all the time and submissive and men are pressured to be manly and strong all the time.
Simon and Martina you guys are awesome!!
im glad ur talkin about this!!! it's really hard to be a women in tunisia when it's manly society!!! and it's so bad i can't tall u about it ...u know u talked about women not smokin in public it's the same here plus there are jobs that womens can do in tunisia like a taxi driver or anything like that ......we have to watch our actions and to be polite and well dressed and we have to make a report on what we did the entier day even if u r an adult while guys do what the hell they want and their moms will be like it's ok he's a man!!! wtf !!!!ok this is the worst part when ur in public let's just say on the street and u see a girl slappin a boy people will be like what's wrong with her !!!she doesn't know her limites!!! he should kick her ass !but when it's the other way around they'll be like she must have done something wrong! let's just go! ... and i m not sayin only guys think that way but womens too so yeah !!!
So true, even in morocco tht happens a lot
im sorry that we have to deal with it everyday...it's not easy!! but im hoping it willl change someday
Ammine, because i remembre i wanted to study in university outta of my city, and they said ur a girl, wht if some guy harrased you, wht if u got pregnant, wht if , wht if, my brother wanted to travel and they let him And he is in puberty wtf.... :'(
yeah it's bad even if it take a lot of forms sexism can destroy ur life espacially in our countries !! c difficile de faire ce qu'on veut pfffff
yeah tha's sad ...alot of women suffer from that in tunisia i mean with the laws and everything you'll think that something has change but it's the same!!!! it all has to do with people themself !!! i don't have a brother and my father passed away so we're all femals so i don't feel bad about myself but when i see what's goin on around me get really frustrated
with the handshaking... maybe they're just a little shy? I'm not saying you're wrong I just like trying to think of some way that it's not as bad as it seems? :/// hahaha
like I'm not trying to say Korea and Japan are the same, but I think a lot of the cultural stuffs is similar? and I went to Japan on exchange and I know a lot of the boys didn't want to look me in the eye or talk to me because they were like super shy...? it's nicer to be able to think 'nyaww they're just being cute and shy' than 'omfg they don't respect us girls here' so either way I'ma just pretend it's the former hahaha ;3
Hmmm, it could be...but I think that business people should act professional so I don´t believe that in Martinas case they were just shy :/
been watching your videos all day...can't stop staring at that BlockB album in the background *lots of tears from a non korean person that likes kpop*
Let a man drag me or ignore me! They would have a whirlwind of butt hurts!!!
lol indian culture is like that as well . they treat us , girls like we dont matter T_T so mean
yup...but we are fighting back now at least. Hopefully, thing will change soon.
Great video guys. You're both very articulate and have a good vibe.
So in the western world, we're getting close to equal rights for women. So much so that we're now looking for things men don't get equal rights for too, for example if a woman is abused by a man in public, many people got to help but if a man is abused in public by a woman, hardly anyone says anything.
And yet there are still countries that haven't sorted out equal rights for women yet. Hurry up, Korea!
While Korean men serve in military for 2 years on their early 20s, women gets no responsibility. they have literally 0% of participation on mandatory military service.
In a korean reality tv show called "infinite challenge" there's an episode that one of women-only company calls for help because "they were not able to change their 18.9L water bottle for weeks".
In Korean public offices only male officers gets overnight duty(YES, with official, national regulations!) while amount of female officers are outnumbering them more than 200%. (so dudes are doing that duty for like once per 3-4 days.)
Korean women's economic participation is one of the lowests in OECD stats while Korean women's average education is actually higher than Korean men's.
ok, thank you for reading all these and now you can talk about sexism in korea.
There is still sexism in Korea, I just didn't realise it was also heavily on men, too. Either way, I believe we both want equal rights for both genders so thank you for giving me the facts.
It won't be ever easier for men because Feminism has been the biggest source of votes in Korea. just like New Zealand, Any ridiculous regulations or policy are made (like women only parking space, women only train, women only public loans, women only stairway. these really do exist in kr.) just like that New Zealand, korean men will leave the country and women will hang feminist leaders after a decade.then we'll come back. I personally fleed into the US Boston and I'm so happy dating American girls because I don't have to see Aegyo stuff anymore. and American women are tend to be independent and has better self-control (as a tendency, not generalizing.)
Oh wow, that's so rediculous!! I agree that feminism is getting extremely out of hand, because some people aren't trying to fight for equal rights anymore, they're fighting for women to be better than men, which is just as bad as how things were 10-20 years ago when men were thought of as better than women.
Sexism isn't just against women, it's also against men but in this video, they didn't mention any sexism against men in Korea, which is why I didn't comment on it
The problem is though western people always assume that asian cultures will be macho and explain ridiculous things (like women only parking space) with their perspective, as simon and martina are doing in this video. the reality is while feminism in US and western european countries are kinda being suppressed Korean and New Zealander feminism won it all and started fucking up much things. it's not fun to see this so much prejudice from these "western" comments assuming asian countries will be male chauvinism society.