The Summerhouse Murder
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
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Sources:
www.unsolvedca...
spartacus-educ... www.findagrave...
strangeco.blogs...
murderpedia.or... www.unsolved-mu...
trove.nla.gov.au/ - Kalgoorlie Miner, The Adelaide Advertiser, The World's News.
newspapers.com - The Guardian, The Vancouver Sun, The Times.
Music credit:
Cause of Death OST - Hard Time
CO.AG Music - Father Marcus
CO.AG Music - Abandoned
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Video credit: videoblocks.com
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A pocket in this instance refers to a large pouch sewn into the seam of a skirt or dress. They were often large enough to hold a book --hence ‘pocketbook’.
I have never in my life heard this. I'm mind blown...good stuff you taught me something today 👍
@@jadexjade if you like this, check outt, They Got Away with Murder, here on TH-cam. He covered this and his style is great.
Right, and they weren’t always sewn, rather tied around the waist by a string or ribbon, suspending the pocket or pouch between the skirts, (outside the undergarments, but inside the skirt or dress. It would be accessed by a hidden slit or two overlapping panels in the folds of the outer skirt.
I was wondering about that. Thank you!
@@Shannon-rq2hc 7
I love these old Victorian and Edwardian unsolved cases
For what it’s worth, pockets of the era weren’t normally sewn in the seams of the garment, but worn tied around the waist in between the layers of skirts and petticoats. If it wasn’t tied firmly or waist was yanked, it could have come undone. I highly suggest checking out Bernadette Banner’s videos on pockets. :)
Early fannypack?
I remember this case from "They Got Away With Murder" (another great channel)
Thanks for the channel recommendation. I went to the site but it's not a patch on this channel.
I love the soft music and your distinctive speaking voice. The stories you share are always intriguing 🤔
For some reason, I don't feel like her husband killed her. I think he killed himself because he knew he'd never be able to shake the suspicions of him.
There was no stated motive for the husband to have killed her, so i concur
It's so sad that suspicions can cause such devastation. There is no doubt in my mind that Charles was not the killer.
@@ilanamillion8942 Suspicion and gossip.
It feels to ME like Charles didn't kill Caroline. I think his suicide was just out of grief.
I agree. It’s bad enough he tragically lost his wife under those circumstances, but to then be accused of being the one responsible on top of his grief must have been unbearable
I agree. Back then servants talked, it could have been anyone or a family member of one that overheard details of the household and did the crime. I don't believe he killed his wife either. Being thought a killer would have been hard for him to deal with, he seemed a man of honor and appearance. Sad all around knowing this wasn't solved.
Why would you say Charles didn't like Caroline? just because they had separate hobbies.??
These are stories that would've been literally lost to history were it not for Dark Curiosities immortalising them on TH-cam!
Check out the They Got Away With Murder channel, he goes into a lot of detail about this case
The Crime Reel and Brief Case also do videos about some very old cases. Very interesting.
That’s what I love about dark curiosities!
@@stevebengel1346 sounds great some channels leave out details and others are more deatiled
Not really, if you enjoy old cases like this you can buy books on "True Crimes" where you can read about the cases in depth, I have a whole library of books on true crimes and this case is part of that, not to mention if you find a good book or case to read about you can't put the book down.
The husband has all the hallmarks of innocence. Many murderers will immediately say that the victim was shot/stabbed/murdered even when the evidence isn't visible. He thought his wife had fainted. He didn't delay looking for her; he looked immediately. He had witnesses placing him elsewhere. When describing the rings, he was even focused on the sentimental meaning more than the monetary value, which isn't what you'd expect from someone the killer.
Please view
SUMMERHOUSE MURDER SOLVED
on TH-cam!
I think Charles commited suicide because he was heart-broken, escpecially because people thought of him to be the murderer of his beloved wife
I feel the same way. Excellent observations.
So do I, and I am heartened by the fact that you received 44 up votes because when I read the comments on John Maguire's documentary, it was more like reading the comments of a lynch mob.
May I suggest you take a look at
SUMMERHOUSE MURDER SOLVED
which is in part an attempt to clear Luard's name.
That's how I saw it too. Between his wife and fingers he couldn't take it.
Suicide because of harassment/bullying isn’t a strange outcome
Yeah I believe he is innocent too.
Wonderful work as always. Thank you so much for presenting this case and for doing so so thoroughly and professionally
Thank you for not having 8 ads in a 14 minute video. Your competition (criminally listed, trace evidence, explore with us) just lost my viewing time and you gained it. Thanks again.
This is a real whodunnit! I don’t know what motive Charles would have had, and I’d like to believe he did not do it. But I find it odd that in his description of his wife, he went into such great detail about the rings she was wearing. Like why would anyone care that one of the rings was an old family heirloom? It was like he wanted to make sure people believed it was a robbery.
The suicide does not necessarily mean he was guilty, but it certainly could be the reason. It’s sad that he would leave his son all alone without parents or his brother.
This whole story is pretty sad and confusing. I guess we will never know the truth unless some spectacular piece of evidence is found.
Yeah agree with that. First when police came he started talking about missing rings and describing these...Its like he wanted to made a story about thief. Also suicide on time when son coming to home is weird. I think he was jealous on his wife because she was popular and she did care about other people too.
Sorry about grammar.
There is nothing which leads me to believe that Charles was Caroline's murderer. By all accounts they had a happy marriage and a close relationship. I think it is simply terrible that he was pretty much hounded by innuendo to suicide.
Love this channel. I would listen to this if you read the phonebook.
Me too.
I love all your videos so much but would be so excited if you came out with some more unidentified persons case videos! those are my favorites of yours
Lovely voice and accent adds to the pleasure of hearing this story. Thank you for submitting 🍀🍀🍀
Great stories and storytelling. Thank you so much, some people are just awesome...these make me happy, that means you make me happy, and that's where the awesome part comes in. Lol. May your future be all smiles.
I feel sorry for their son. Perhaps modern day fornsics would've helped solve the crime but as it stands, it's a very intriguing case. Thanks for this DC.
It’s a pity they don’t have evidence from this case. And even if they did it would too hard to solve due to it happening long ago
@@whitedragoness23 Evidence did turn up in the 1970s, but was lost!
DC and Mark John Maguire's channel both do an outstanding job with this case. I can't imagine someone liking one channel and disliking the other.
My favorite content creator strikes again. 🤍🧡💙
I miss your storytelling ! Thanks for the video.
Same.
Great story ,love the narrators voice ..
Love listening to these old stories they are very intresting 🙂
The fact that her rings never surfaced is suspicious. I believe her husband killed her and took the rings to make it look like a robbery. However, why would the killer have the need to hit her over the head? I think there was an argument between the two and he hit her. Once doing that he felt he had to shoot her to save his good name.
I can’t make up my mind about this case. But the way the husband committed suicide shortly after his wife’s murder is definitely suspicious 🤨
Agree💯 Who knows of course, but that's my gut feeling
No, people react to grief in different ways. Some can't cope without their life partner beside them.
@@prudencepineapple9448 I totally agree but he chose a very painful way to die.
@@prudencepineapple9448 Not just grief but the suspicion and gossip of others. What a hard way to live.
He did it. Nowadays we know about domestic violence.
Excellent episode. You do everything right - great voice and choice of music. The format simply works so well!
Two things. If you wear rings under your gloves, they tend to be loose as they would not fit otherwise. The other way is putting on the gloves and then the rings. Either way, a thief would see the rings or notice the loose gloves and when gloves were commonly worn, practiced thieves would probably be aware of this. I think it was a thief, too hard for Col. Luard to hide a gun in such a short time. Stay safe.🤗
Yay made a crime channel and you were recommended! I get to binge, new sub :)
Yes! Gator I mentioned the other day to you to keep commenting on other crime channels because that's how I found you! 😊
I am subbed to many True Crime channels. Being the TC junkie that I am. I have noticed you on a few. I looked for your channel to check it out but could not find it.
I don’t think the husband did it. I think he committed suicide out of grief. It probably pained him greatly that he had tried so hard to lead an exemplary life but then people believed he might be responsible for the murder. He didn’t take up with a younger woman or start living it up. At age 70, he most likely would have been at a loss without his wife. I think his assessment of her body and injuries was not suspicious but rather an ingrained part of being a former soldier.
I agree.
May I suggest you view
SUMMERHOUSE MURDER SOLVED
on TH-cam
which proves Luard's innocence and unmasks the true murderer.
Yes this is a great channel and made so much better with the wonderful story telling.⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
This is so well narrated. Concise and eerie. An interesting case, thank you.
This case is also known as the "Serial Chart Murder" if I recall correctly. Is been 113 years now and probably won't be solved. Often times people junp to the conclusion that the partner did it, thus having tunnel vision, and don't focus on other aspects. I don't see Charles murdering her just to commit suicide. It may have been the dude rhat forged rhe check.
I had known of this case and it's one of those that will probably never be solved. If Caroline was having an affair, Its strange that no-one picked up on this. People notice changes in routines etc. and it doesn't take long for people to draw conclusions. Could it be, that Caroline came across someone in the summerhouse who wasn't expected to be there.?There doesn't seem anything pointing to problems in the marriage of Caroline and Charles. My thinking is that whilst it is entirely possible for Charles to have killed Caroline-I think it unlikely. What did he do with the gun for example? Why pick up the cartridges, if they would point away from Charles. It doesn't add up to me. But surely the cartridges were removed because it would easily lead police to the culprit. My thinking always is, that if something is removed from the scene of a crime, it's because it had to be. It points to a local person. Interesting case and well related-as per usual!
The murder was indeed committed by a local person - and not Luard, who could not have killed her.
Please see
SUMMERHOUSE MURDER SOLVED
on TH-cam!
I am curious on why the detective assumed that Caroline's killer knew her? Nothing really stands out to me that would be the case. She was struck on the head and shot.
I agree. You would not have to know her to know that she wore rings. Just seeing her around town would garner that information. I knew an elderly man who was robbed of his Rolex in his front yard. A car with two men pulled up, one man jumped out, tore the Rolex off my friend's wrist, and they sped away. My friend had no idea who they were, but they obviously knew he wore a Rolex.
@@fulanichild3138 some criminals intentionally stalk a victim before robbery. They tend to prey on those they deem weak and defenseless
@@whitedragoness23 That's exactly what the police thought. They checked all of the neighborhood camera's between my friend's home and the supermarket where he'd just been. Unfortunately, they never found the thieves.
@@fulanichild3138 and of course knowing about the prevalence of domestic violence they strongly pursued the husband too.
If she had stayed unconscious whoever killed her wouldn’t have needed to shoot her but if she had come round and saw them then he or they would have had to shoot her to silence her. Apparently the autopsy revealed the shooting happened about 15 minutes after the knock on the head due to the evidence of bruising which wouldn’t have happened if she had died outright. It was therefore speculated that she had come round and saw who it was and knew them. It has also been speculated that there were two killers where one shot her and made the other shoot her to make them both equally guilty and so unlikely to give the other up.
Back in the victorian era pockets were small bags tied around the waist or hidden under the outer skirt. It was probably pulled off since they weren't sewn in at that time
I think Caroline's husband took his own life out of grief.
Also, I could not stop thinking about Charles and Caroline Ingalls (the parents of Laura Ingalls Wilder), just because of the same first names.
It worries me a bit that my TH-cam algorithm preceded this video with a funeral planning ad. 🤣
If these passerbys heard screaming and gunfire then why didn’t THEY get the Police?!
I didn't hear a motive for Charles to kill her. Why did it take an hour to walk a trail that normally takes half that time. Caroline didn't sound like the type to cheat on him, strange case.
Unfortunately, this documentary repeats John Maguire's error about Luard taking 35 minutes to walk half a mile.
The actual distance was about three times that.
That and numerous other errors in Maguire's presentation, several of which are repeated in this documentary, are refuted in
SUMMERHOUSE MURDER SOLVED
on TH-cam
I wonder if the torn off pocket maybe wasn't sewn into her dress directly, but was a tie-on pocket, considering the 19th century was when women's fashion was transitioning from the tie-on pocket worn as an undergarment/midlayer garment to sewn-in pockets attached directly to the dress. I suspect if it were a tie-on pocket, that could explain how it had come loose, but was found bundled up in the sheet used to move her body if perhaps its strap broke but it was still tucked amongst her skirts. After all, pickpockets and cutpurses are called as such because way back in ye olden days, they used to literally cut the strings used to tie your pocket to your waist and take your entire pocket, not just its contents. I don't know how that could possibly change the story, but I thought it was an interesting detail to consider.
I learned the history of women's pockets from Prof. Amanda Vickery in her fantastic 3 part doc series "At home With the Georgians". It was a fascinating show, and I found the history of pockets incredibly interesting, and she showed several beautiful examples of Georgian era pockets.
The idea that the pocket was torn out as a result of the body being dragged comes from John Maguire's documentary.
It is a matter of evidence that the pocket was CUT out.
I read about this one a few years ago ..very interesting case! ..Thankyou for doing this video p.s I live in Scotland too so it's always nice to hear a familiar accent 😊
This may be a morbid thought, but if you want to leave a note on your body it seems like jumping in front of a train may not be the best method of suicide; the paper is likely to get a little... unreadable.
This case actually crops up a lot in true crime books. But it's an intriguing case nonetheless.
Are you able to add captions or enable the auto generated captions? I am hearing impaired, and captions are helpful. If not, that is okay!
If you are on your phone...if you tap your screen, on the right hand side, it should show you a box that has "cc" in it..if you click it...the captions come on. Hope that helps!💙
If you are on your computer, just look for the cc and hopefully it will be easily available to see. Idk about the computer or laptop because I don't watch yt on my laptop..I only watch it on my phone. I do hope you're able to find it!
Hmm tricky to work this one out. Maybe he killed himself out of despair?
Sidenote, TH-cam put soo many ads on this video, it really chopped it up :-/.
Excellent! 👌i very much enjoyed your presentation of this story. 💜🙏💜
If you are not acquainted with the utube creator They Got Away With Murder you should check him out. He presents an extremely detailed legal analysis of each case that include deep dives into many diverse areas of human thought. He does all of the research, artwork and music himself.
This in no way demeans the excellent quality of your work! i love your presentations!
💜🙏💜🖖💜🙏💜
He does an outstanding job, doesn't he?
I just went to check out his channel because I never heard of him before...seems very interesting so I subscribed...can't wait to binge watch...thanks for mentioning his yt channel!💙
He is excellent
So it was a robbery. The robber was in a rush and pulled off the pocket by accident while removing his hand from the pocket, the killer knew the victim and was most likely laying in wait for the right time to strike. Charles didnt need money so it makes no sense for him to kill her, plus there were much better times for murder than the afternoon.
A sad story. DC thanks for this crime that I had never heard of.
Hello 😊🌼
The lady who didn’t show up for tea; I think she was involved. That’s what lured Caroline into the woods.
But she did show up? She was waiting at the house......
I've been to Ightham loads of times and i never knew it had this kind of history, Really interesting!
I suspect he did it but thought no one would ever suspect him. When he became a suspect in people's eyes, he couldn't face it. The letters were probably from someone who saw something and told him to fess up or knew the reason that he would want to kill Caroline.
Thank you for another great upload!!❤
I can't think of Charles as guilty in this case. I think he was driven to take his own life out of grief and the stress of being harassed in the aftermath of Caroline's death.
I really enjoyed hearing about this. Stories like this I find them to be very interesting and I sometimes wonder what really happened?! For him to "commit suicide" after his wife had been murdered is quite odd.
That's not odd!
Awesome mystery. I love your channel 👍👍
Another great one!!! Thank you 😊
I’m related to this family through the Hartleys !
Hmm I wonder if you were just struck by grief, wouldn't you at least wait for your son to return to save him some pain? Perhaps then suicide... I just don't see why a random thief would be in the vicinity. And what thief would have the forethought to take her gloves off? The injuries are more suspicious. A blow to the head then being shot? This would be uncharacteristic of a thief, either you're torturing her for info (locations within the house for valuables) or you're just taking what she has on her. Why shoot her if you've immobilised her? Seems more like an argument, she's struck by the hubby, then is shot by him either in rage or to prevent her from reporting it. That he's adept with guns is another red flag.
There is a long history of people who can't manage to live among others, and go live in the woods instead. Some move around, and one might have hoped to get a bit of cash in another town.
Very sad. There really is not enough info for me to have an opinion. What wouldMr. Luard have to gain from his wife's death? Money? Did he have a mistress? Did he have that type of gun? Which apparently wasn't found.
It could've been any number of people that knew she wore expensive jewelry and knew they were going for a walk, and just took the opportunity. If they had found her jewelry it would've been helpful.
I've read the John Dickman train murder/robbery case and wouldn't put it past him to have murdered and robbed Mrs. Luard.
I'm always mystified by the suggestion that Dickman killed her at a rendezvous at the Summerhouse.
How could Dickman have found the summerhouse, whose whereabouts were known to few people, how could he have entered and left the village without anyone noticing him, why would Caroline have suggested the summerhouse as a meeting place with a complete stranger, and why would she arrange to meet him on the very afternoon she had arranged to meet someone else at her home?
Thanks DC.🙏💔 Not been getting notifications again.🤬🙄🦌
Love your videos
On this one there were 10 commercials 😳 that is excessive
And poor Charles
Nor only dealing with grief but then judgement
I would say he didn't do anything but was a victim
Hope he found his peace
I find these old crimes so interesting:)
Why would he not write his son a letter before ending his life? Strange.
I know this town well! Hartley is still a name local to Egremont
I LOVE your voice.
Yes!
Yay.
No shooter " forgets where he put his ammo." We forget that Syphilis was widespread amongst prostitutes and their clients. It causes insanity, clearly the guy suffered from " temporary insanity."
I guess the rings never were located ...
This documentary repeats some of the erroneous ideas previously put forward by John Maguire in his own documentary from 2019:
(1)
at 7:11
his theory that the killer dragged Caroline's body onto the Verandah is described as 'entirely possible' whereas in fact the evidence is that it is impossible.
(2)
at 10:16
his idea that it is suspicious that Luard claimed not to have heard the shots is repeated as though it is a valid point, but none of the several witnesses who saw Luard heard the shots either!
(3)
at 10:39
Maguire's claim that it is suspicious that Luard claimed to have walked half a mile in 35 minutes is repeated as a valid point.
In fact, Maguire has made a terrible mistake: the distance was about ONE AND A HALF miles, not half a mile.
(4) at 11:31
Maguire's claim that there was no evidence that the poison pen letters existed is repeated as if it is fact, whereas there is proof that they were sent!
At 17:11
the narrator asks, 'If Charles did not kill Caroline, who did - and why?'
Take a look at SUMMERHOUSE MURDER SOLVED on TH-cam
to find the answers.
I’m wondering did they take their terrier with them on the walk
Could be an acquaintance, or a servant? someone who could get close. Possibly a robbery by someone who needed money quickly, or a better murder plan would of been forged.
Shooting her in the face perhaps indicates resentment. Killed so they couldn't be identified as the perpetrator. Most likely someone known to the area, hence the remote location of the crime.
i feel charles killed hi wife, first she had gloves on and although there were people who knew her personally and probably saw the rings on her fingers the ones she associated with were of a more wealth status. second his suicide seems to confirm he did not want to face his returning son. the scenario i see is charles made a ruse for her to meet someone at the cottage , maybe caroline was having an affair and charles lured her there pretending to be her lover. confronted her and she brushed it off and turned her back on him he grabbed a rock out of anger and struck her plus in that era men always had a gun on them because the streets were layered with crooks. tooks the rings and staged to scene. the hanging purse if u watch vids on how they dressed in that time were under the skirts, so it was intentionally ripped off to give illusion of robbery. i suspect in time the son might of found the missing jewelry and not wanting to tarnish his fathers name never told. your image back then was highly important.
Dickman,
Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na,
Dickman!
Absolute worst Victorian superhero.
A lot of signs point to the husband in this case.
Smrc, at first I pictured a bunch of guys sitting around building tiny little rifles together...lol. ironically enough as I understand it miniature firearms actually are a thing in Europe these days.
Odds are he did it but idk. (Most murders are committed by partners overall or someone very close). I think he committed suicide Bcuz either he was unable to face his son Bcuz of guilt or the world at large or Bcuz of the consequences...(or if controlling it would be a final move to stay in control of his own fate)...or he was utterly crushed by all the false accusations, (if he didn’t do it) essentially causing his entire world to fall apart. I don’t think other reasons would so often be as compelling as those are for someone to take their own life. Yet spousal murder/suicide scenarios also happen more than anyone would think (esp among abusive, controlling people). Abuse is so often hidden and done behind closed doors tho...by even “pillars of the community,” so we just don’t really know what was going on in the marriage.
Remington eh? Cool last name
I must say that some of your choices in video clips (like the golfing scene, or the man with the magnifying glass) are getting a little unorthodox, given the mystery's setting. Having said that....
I don't think there's a shred of proof to implicate Charles, and the way that the townspeople turned on him is appalling in its disloyalty. All the "evidence" against him (such as the phantom fourth gun and its ammunition) is purely hypothetical, and it feels like grasping at straws. Meanwhile, his suicide proves nothing, and if anything, deserves a tone of compassion and not of accusation. I would find it easier to believe that the real killer, whoever s/he was, originated the rumors of Charles' supposed guilt as a cover.
There's far more reason to suspect this aptly-named Dickman chap than to suspect Charles, at least on grounds of character. And the guilt of some unseen fourth party can by no means ruled out.
You are trying to make a BIG Soap Opera out of what was probably a random and meaningless thrill kill by a complete stranger.
7:43 If he was just finding her and seeing her for the 1st time how would he know that she was shot? I mean somebody could have her head in with something, or any are number of causes...
After the intro, I just kept thinking this was a super deep lore video about Remington Steele
I think it was the husband who murdered her, you never know what’s going on behind closed doors.
Maybe he hid the gun in his golf bag?
Luard almost certainly killed his wife. The real mystery is his motive.
It’s almost sweet some people seem to think the husband didn’t do it. I think those people probably would have ended up like Caroline.
So upon finding his wife deceased, he checks her fingers for rings? He knows she’s been shot? Most people wouldn’t be able to look at their partner of decades and think to look for that kind of stuff. You’d just be horrified. Not thinking properly enough to look for missing rings. If you’d even get close enough to see how they died, it would be because you tried to cradle them or administer CPR (yes, I’m aware that wasn’t in existence in the Victorian era). He apparently did not do this when he found his wife, yet knew she had been shot.
In 2021, he would have been brought in for questioning immediately.
Had it coming
English accents are lame compared to the many i listen to. This gal is right near the top and I know I would make a lousy host. Lol
🖤🖤🖤
Military officer should be jealous on his wife who gained same popularity as him...just saying well made video.
I think Charles did it
👍👍👍
Ehh, I think he did it.
Hubby killed her. He committed suicide rather than face interrogation.
Love the narrators accent. Irish?
No, Scottish.
#556 =]
👋👍👏
🦌⚘
Is this kirsty skye
Hi Kimberly 👋 Dark curiosities is Kirsty Sky's sister.
Wild how many people can watch a brief video filtered from secondhand sources and feel incredibly confident that they know the solution to every question in an unsolved case. Is it delusion or a sense of superiority? Lol