@@SteelsCrow Actually it was, he did a hard focus tech rush fairly pacifist game, the video is worth a watch if you feel the need to confirm, once you start stacking repeatables far enough the citadel effective fleet power grows exponentially.
@@mealyaUrtem Gateways are and useful af, in a game I have going on I have gateways in major shipyards, trade centers, and on the border of my space so I can resupply and handle two front wars REALLY well
sure, but unlike your ships which stay dead forever, a starbase gets reactivated under the control of who disabled it and shoots back at you, costing you even more ships.
@@GaratghDeloi I think he means during the war. When the enemy takes the system, once the base reactivates, you have to spend ships to get it back under your control.
While I tend to avoid relying on stations much in the mid game, I actually find myself using border defense citadels on every entrance to my space in the late game. I find that the buffs to friendly ships and extra ~20k fleet power from a military focused citadel can really help turn the tide of the battle if you can lure the enemy into attacking your fleet in a citadel system. Defense citadels also guarantee that the enemy can't just distract and annoy you by quickly taking undefended systems when you have a large empire. Large fleets outgun a citadel any day, but managing to force the enemy to use a large fleet to enter your space can often buy you some much needed time to maneuver your fleets into position in order to minimize territory loss. I almost always regard defense platforms as a sunk cost though. The only time I ever really pursue defense platforms or ion cannons is in the latest stages of the game when I have 60k alloys and nothing else to practically spend them on.
Pretty much what I do I expand into systems that are choke points then as resources become abundant and the tech is researched I build star bases in those systems. I have a few that are citadels in the game I am playing that are 40k fleet power. I also strategically place gateways in systems not too far away from those citadels so I can respond quickly to threats. Also they double as trade routes so eventually I don't need to rely on patrols to keep piracy down because the trade goes though the gateway network.
Cosmonauts Jam He was using them to keep the 5x End Game crisis contained, not to really stop anyone, plus this was in singleplayer and well..... AI empires almost never use the jump drives.....
@@computerkitsune First off, I've never seen an AI use Jump Drive at all. Second, it's going to be impossible for the AI to get powerful enough to beat one of those things, place one next to a wormhole, next to a choke point or two and one in each system with a planet and you're unbeatable through and through, especially if you have a gateway network to each one and multiple 250K fleets. Hell, a Star Fortress with 9 or 10 defense platforms managed to kill 1 Unbidden fleet out of the 2 that attacked it on normal difficulty, imagine if I'd gotten it to be fully functional, and it wouldn't even be a fifth of the power of one of Lathland's citadels
I find myself disagreeing here a bit. You're right in that in a fight between equals, a citadel usually doesn't mean much. Any empire with the alloy output and technology to build one can also build a fleet that can take even a citadel down with negligible losses if unsupported. What they DO allow, however, is to act as a delay on incoming enemies (the more hp they have, the more days the enemy is stuck firing) and to stop both reinforcements and smaller enemy fleets from passing. All too often I find myself fighting multiple enemies, some of which are light-weights but could still hurt me significantly by taking out systems or occupying planets to deny me resources while my fleets are away to deal with the actual primary enemy. Beefy citadels in key locations put a definite limit to this. Well built, a citadel works like the sign in an amusement park - you must be at least this tall to board this ride. You could argue that a fleet built from the same alloys would work similarly and I tried that, but in practice I almost always end up concentrating my forces so a smaller "deterrence" fleet would just end up in the same pile simply because of how battles work in Stellaris. The more you use, the less you lose. Citadels can also protect you way into mid game if you play a dense map with slow tech and go for technological superiority yourself. Enemies can still crack them with weight of numbers, but if the citadel is more advanced than them that can become expensive and, again, serves to buy you time if the enemy does happen to rock in with enough ships to eventually take it out.
Exactly this. They won't stop a determined attacker, but the automatic FTL jammer will keep any small 1-5k fleets from trashing your outposts while your main fleet is fighting elsewhere. I find them most useful for the listening post (which was surprisingly not mentioned), because I can see when a big fleet is approaching and make sure my main fleet is there to greet them when they arrive.
@@EstrellaViajeViajero Yup. Lategame that's not that important anymore because of jump drives or gateways, but early to late mid game having the advanced warning and fire support is pretty dope. Heck, just the reduced emergency FTL chance means more ship losses for the enemy = more attrition even if the guns never fire a shot.
I LOVE your 'must be this tall to ride' comment! I use bases as tripwires on my chokepoint systems when I'm fighting a war with someone else. I hate trying to attack in one direction and then some pirate outbreak occurs on the other side of my space. Once my bases are 5k+ then an enemy has to commit something serious to get by.
@@Comicsluvr Yeah, and you've often got partially destroyed fleets flying around in drips and drabs as they escape from a losing battle and then fly back into danger. Stuff like that and the fleets of smaller tributaries or vassals often can't challenge a good solid fortress and it keeps your economy secure while your fleets are moving on with their rampage. ^^
A well placed citadel isn't just impacting enemy fleet maneuvers, but also their economy because lost ships will have to be replaced. With a fast response fleet nearby, one can even force bigger fleets to retreat, further increasing time and resource investments as well as war exhaustion. While the enemy will have to regroup and produce new ships, that downtime can be used to take key systems and/or fortify choke-points. The way I see it, citadels are a one-time long-term investment that allows to control regions of space much more efficiently if done right.
Because then you'll need a starbase design for every module combination, and the Stellaris programmers wasn't sure how to manage that in a way that didn't just clog up your designer screen.
@@day2148 atleast having control over the base star base design would be nice outside of modules. having shields and anti shield weapons in systems where they dont matter is really grinding my gears sometimes because thats DPS that is missing that could win you battles. and it would not be to hard for just the base have 1 design and just mark wich part belongs to wich lvl of upgrade.
Defense-Grid Supercomputers aren't that much of rare tech though, I feel like I've generally gotten them long before I need to start supplementing my space stations with defense platforms anyway
@@flopus7 Make sure every ship of your strike force is upgraded and to disband every event ship, or at least put them in some "misfleet" patrolling between your main tade centers.
It's actually interesting strategic choice - do you drag through citadel (and even if it's comparatively weak, it'll snipe bunch of battleships) or do you take hefty jump drive nerf (leaving you more exposed to fleets).
I like Citadels when turtling. Though in general they help stall fleets whilst you move in yours and weaken them too, (or by time to rebuild), they also prevent mid sized raiding fleets. I dont build defence platforms unless i'm flush, because they tend to die way to quickly to bother. In conjunction with a "support station" for your fleet "behind", (and if possible a fortress world in front) can prevent many offensive actions against you. I see them as way to create an active defence. Its great if you're not that strong compared to hostile empires, and/or fighting a number of empires surrounding you at once, You only have so many fleets in so many places! With the modifiers they offer too, it can really help in tight battles. plus they can become strong enough to resit end game crisis' fleets,(except fallen empires), on their own which can be very useful, again freeing up fleets to do whatever they need to do. They are oft the anvil to the hammer of my fleets.
Really? Anchorages, Ship yards (Every slot has a ship yard) so that you can refit lots of ships fast? By mid to late game my concern is what to do with all my resources and increasing my star base capacity. I use completely beefed up star bases to act as speed bumps at all borders and internal ones to increase ship capacity and help planet development. I don't worry about pirates at all and deal with the minor outbreaks as needed, especially once I have gateways in every third system. Resource storage depo's on all internal star bases and maxed out ion cannons at all borders and keep those things updated, it's money well spent. I keep the number of star bases almost at capacity all game. The biggest and the smallest take the same points, 1, so why not build them up. Current game, no station mods, I am plus 1700 Alloy a month. I'm 4k minerals surplus a month, so maybe I'll just build more mineral to alloy buildings. It takes no time at all to run up a reserve of 150k out of a storage capacity of 500k. Sorry, can't disagree more on this. OK I really looked into this (4 months later) and have decided I was COMPLETELY wrong. I grossly underrated the amount of fleet logistic increases I got as the size of defending armies increased over time. I watched while in a very short time rose about 2k points. Now I'm wondering what other estimations I made are just as wrong. Damn game.
I'm in something of a similar situation, though I'm not to that level of income yet, but I'm trending that direction. My fleet has been sitting in drydock ready to be deployed for over a century now. I'm 140 years into a game where I'm seeking the 200 years of peace with a pacifist empire achievement. By hard rushing technology and keeping my fleet at my naval capacity, my fleet power is Overwhelming compared to all other Empires and with no wars to worry about, I'm not losing any ships and I can spend my alloys to occasionally update my ships, occasionally add ships to my fleets, upgrade star bases to citadels, and build megastructures. I have maximally updated Citadels bristling with weaponry (and Ion Cannons) at my borders, and my fleets are sitting in a central system with a gateway in the system for instant response in the event that an enemy does attack. Yes, the power of the Star Fortress won't stop an enemy fleet of sufficient size but it will delay them long enough to get my fleet into position though those gateways. (You called it a peed bump at your border, and that's what they are.) And if they want to come through Gateways to attack, the only gateways in my territory are in systems where I already have Citadels and the system where I'm keeping my fleet.
@@Karthos1000 unless they changed it rather recently you cant move through (into or out of) a gateway controlled by a nation you are at war with so no worries about that the only exception is the L-gates but they act more like wormholes
What you are describing tho is a game that from an economic perspective, already is won. Won't matter what you do you will win anyway since you double outproduce everyone. The Trurtle strat like that to build up defences is something I also do but most of the time I just realise I get over prepared and could have saved time more by investing those alloys more aggressively
@@jarnovanherreweghe218 That is very possible and have wondered the same thing. My concern is not having the resources to follow through in a war. I don't want to go into a war like the AI does, not being able to exploit some advantage or having to stop short because I ran out of resources.
Citadels have saved my ass from awakened empires numerous times. My 130k fleet against their 180k fleet, but then add in my 70k citadel and I was able to decimate them. They ARE useful imo
@@fusselgammler469 i was paying sins not to long ago finishing up some achievements and remembered halfway through that i hadn't mined every planet yet
@@stoirmslw7195 Vasari Rebell here, who needs mines if you can have 1 maxed out starbase in every system and a phasegate network to get them all to the enemy homeplanet? jeah the game got some balance issues
Many are not aware, but you can build defense platforms on stations (not star bases). It helps dealing against single or weak ships. I do think they help deter the enemy, and it does weaken them or buys you time to counter. It comes to a point where the enemy cannot advance because another star base is in the next area and they need to rebuild/repair their fleet.
If you were trying to mention the ODPs super macs of halo those fire a *3000* ton projectile at *.04* the speed of light. Yes, the damage it can do is ridiculous.
@@commanderknight9314 mathematics, I calculated it myself because of a discussion about Halo I had with a friend once (the conclusion was that Halo weaponry has the equivalent of water pistols in Stargate)
I would argue that the effectiveness of starbases depends on if you're playing pvp or pve. Against other players they'll be more of a hindrance than an aid unless you have a fleet close by to assist because the player attacking you will likely have positioned his fleet close enough to get there way before you do which means he'll take the system and now you have to fight what survived of his fleet AND your own station. So unless you have a fleet close by or a gateway they can use then it's not so great. And early on a player will just go around them. Against AI on the other hand you can usually keep the starbase at a pretty decent power level compared to AI empire fleets. Some of the same principles still apply. You wouldn't want a starbase next to an AI strong enough to overwhelm it with minor casualties. But if you have a fleet strong enough to take it back yourself and it cripples the AI when they attack it's probably worth it. Mostly though against AI you have some idea of which empires will declare war on you so you can always keep an eye on them and keep a fleet nearby whenever you don't have a truce so that you are ready to defend. If your starbase and your nearby fleet have a combined fleetpower equal to the threatening empire and you know what they'll use(and often even if you don't) you'll likely win easily. Unless their ships counter yours. The main thing about bastions is the fact that they regenerate imho. If you defend against an attack. For this example we'll say it's early game and you lose 5 corvettes out of 20 defending along side the starbase. If you had built ships instead of a bastion you might have had more ships to defend with but it's also very possible you would have taken WAY more casualties since the bastion tanks a lot of damage and it regenerates it for free even if it goes down in battle. Another point I can come up with is that bastions wreck fleets if we're talking logistics. Both in the fact that they free up some naval capacity if you need less ships to properly defend and in them having a much better upkeep/fleetpower ratio. Of course all of this is just my thoughts and opinions. Feel free to let me know if something doesn't add up or I'm missing something/got something wrong.
Border stations + gateway network. My fleet can almost instantly reinforce it, making extra firepower to fight an incoming fleet. It's also a great bait to force enemies to fight.
This. I put a gateway in all my shipyard systems. Any losses I might incur can be quickly replenished... feels so awesome to see ships show up in rapid fire from a gateway.
I like to build citadels on chokepoints then either colonise any planets in that system or build habitats and make fortress worlds. The citadel will deal with any weak fleets so that I'm not having to worry about defence so much during a war, if a strong enemy fleet turns up, the citadel will at least weaken their fleet while my fleet is on it's way and the planet/habitat will hold them in place should the citadel fall.
Citradels are ment to slow down enemys and to stop them from sending small fleets all over your empire. Also putting the alloys into fleet, means you need the fleetcap. Asuming 1 station gives you a max 36, i would say a citydel will have more power than those 4 battleships or 36 corvets, and also less costly. Sure, you cant atack with it, but not losing 10 systems to 10k fleets, resulting in huge production losses or even fleet capacity(Purifiers...)makes them worth building. I think the discussion should be, are defensplatforms any good, couse you lose tons of them even against much smaller fleets than your citadels fighting power. So maybe a video about defensplatforms, what to use or how they should be changed, to be not wasted aloys?
I thought it was obvious a StarBase is meant to support a reinforcing fleet ;-; especially when you have gateways. Like a titan (with point defense platforms to help with rockets)
Ok, I admit that I can't play stellaris without mods anymore, but I really really think the NSC solar fortresses etc are what starbases should be late game. They can't move, and are meant to defend, so in my opinion they should offer a slightly more efficient transformation of alloys in power. And with NSC you get actual bastions that rival the enigmatic fortress, being a stationary weapon platform that still can be destroyed using a strong fleet, or by exploiting weaknesses in the defenses.
Legends say there was once a citadel which saw the power difference between starbases and fleets and decided to join the fleets. This is how the first juggernaut came to be.
I would suggest personally that starbases become much more effective when you use them in concert with a fleet, because the base comes with inherent bonuses to range, tracking, and fire rate for both the base and any platforms that come with it. They are very desirable to have on a choke point system, especially as they come with a lot of buildings that add blanket buffs and debuffs to friendly/enemy fleets. This also means that hangars are probably not the best combat module choice, because they don't benefit from the bonuses to tracking/range/fire rate etc. Stations will be sniped down if you try to use them on their own, but they will continue to fight effectively if you screen them with a fleet, because the enemy fleet will disperse its fire across multiple targets.
Target Uplink Computer is great. It's my go to first choice for frontline military stations. It really helps avoid that awkward situation once you have long range ships where a co-stationed fleet will sometimes engage an enemy outside of the station's range. Communications Jammer is usually my next pick, slower sublight speed and steeper losses for the baddies is a win-win for me.
Well it also depends on what type of empire you are, as a determent exterminator you do get a 43% bonus to fire rate, so choosing hangers wouldn't be the best choice as it is less fire power you send against the enemy per second. I would argue that missles might have a place here, as they have the longest range and with an increase in fire rate the would slowly overpower a fleet not going all in on defense. Not to mention if all your platformes where missles too it would help, and they are better when shooting at smaller targets too. That said larger guns on platformes would and station would also work, as there is no lose because of interception, but they do less damage, have worse accuracy and shorter range, so your engagement time before your also fired upon would be smaller too.
A single Star Fortress close to your homeworld with 6 Trade Hubs will cover pretty much the entire empire (6 Hyperlane radius) for collecting trade value without the use of Gates, with the use of Gates it would cover EVERYTHING. This would work well in conjunction with a Star Fortress with 6 Hanger Bays protecting your trade routes (again a 6 Hyperlane Radius). Building 1 Citadel to build ships (probably with 6 Shipyards), 1 Star Fortress to collect Trade and 1 Star Fortress to protect Trade in adjacent systems is way more effecent than building a dozen mixed use stations and easier to defend and allows all additional stations to be purely combat focused to provide fleet support at choke point systems. As for why you would want 6 shipyards in one station, well that is simply refit speed, 1 shipyard refits one ship, 6 shipyards refit 6 ships at the same time.
If you get the !-Starbase - Extended-! mod a single Citadel optimized for combat can chew through most fleets and seriously damage those fleets that it can't kill. Ads on the fact that one filled with shipyards can build 35 ships at a time it's a great mod to get if you want to beef up starbases.
Depends what you're looking from a station I guess, I love to put upgraded stations on a chokepoint mostly to benefit from that reduction of shields on the enemy and sublight speed (and listening post early game to know when fleets are spproaching) mostly as a backup to main fleet but it does give a good boost when fighting in the system. What does bug me that lategame stations are just being wiped by fleets no matter how many extra defence platforms you have, they can stall enemy for a bit sure but in the end all your defence stations are lost and have to be rebuilt which takes too much time and alloys. I think defence platforms need to be cheaper or become part of station and simply be disabled/recaptured as stations do
Definitely do not agree that starbases are useless.. many players compare the defensive power of a starbase against an enemy fleet. Unless extremely overpowered, a single starbase can not match a decent fleet. This is a strategic flaw. Your fleet positioning needs to be able to support the starbase during an impending attack. Take a starbase any day supported with a minor fleet and it will prove its worth against any invading fleet. A recently upgraded starbase is an extra (and tough) target for the invading fleet, soaking up damage that would otherwise be directed at your fleet. Less destroyed ships means longer sustained firepower. Starbase weapons are attrition. The longer the enemy fleet stays, the more damage they take. Coupled with the strategic value of starbases to replenish and repair your fleets, starbases should be the most important strategic factor to consider on the galactic map.
This gave me the grandest of plans. Build Citidel at key choke point. Have 1-2 ion cannons. Create a fleet of naked corvettes, or when a large enemy fleet starts heading towards said system spam naked corvettes and let the ion cannons destroy the enemy fleet. Profit.
That's what I do with 3 Ion cannons and a Citadel (with all buffs and debuffs for fleet combat installed ), a Fire rate lowering Titan and a shield lowering Titan and 200k worth of Corvettes
Naked corvetes, maybe you would want to build invasion fleet, only 100-50 minerals. Also they get best armor shield tech, they are a lot better than naked corvettes. I sometimes use them to engage an enemy fleet first, they just sponge the first volley of enemy attack, and then my fleet engages.
Once tried to take over someones 400k+ citadel. It took like 30 minutes to arrive there and then the game crashed after getting into the 2 minutes per month timeframe of max speed. Classic stellaris endgame performance.
I have a mod, can't remember which one, that adds more buildings and modules to starbases, both in number and type. It also adds 1-2 more starbase levels which pretty much make them able to to kill or at least hold off most fleets.
I find them useful, but my alloys primarily go to fleets first, stations second. They buff fleets in the area, and can hold out long enough for my fleets to get in system. It is a big investment, which is why you should prioritize fleets first. My best empires tend to have huge alloy production, and I can max out my fleet size.
my set up is generally. one citadel near a central location with 6 shipyards with fleet academy, titan yard, hyperplane register, and crew quarters 1-3 trade protection platforms 1-3 trade collection platforms ~3 border stations with disruption field generators, command centers, and communications jammer Everything else is just anchorages with logistics office, hyper lane register, and special buildings like the curator think tank or black hole observatory.
Even with that reduced power in late, they are still usefull as a "dangerous zone deterent". With Target Uplink & Shield Jammer, they will fire upon anything that enters your zones, wich is VERY nice and forces ennemy into retreat if you have fleets.
As someone who tends to turtle until my tech and eco is overwhelming star bases can be a good deterrent against the AI They are unquestionably weak AF but in the long term can be cheaper than having a navy. For wars I will use the defence platforms to unload a barrage of weapon fire using a small fleet of decoy corvettes (high evade high hull) so the base can deal more damage and provide enough time for my real fleet to jump in
I like having a pair of citadels on the choke points into my territory. A Bastion on the edge and a shipyard a jump away to rapidly refit my fleets. In war I crush their fleets and then the weakened survivors like to fly in around behind me to attack. But since they've been weakened they can't make it past my bastions. Free's me up to go straight for their starbases and take them out so they cannot recover.
I find citadels quite useful actually. Especially for protecting systems of high importance such as my capital and any system in which I have built a Dyson Sphere. The reason being that even though the station can be destroyed in late game, in most cases, if not all, it manages to hold the enemy off long enough for my main fleet to not only return to my space but make it all the way back to said systems. Furthermore, in the cases where my main fleet is nowhere nearby, having a citadel allows me to use any of my much smaller fleets to win battles against larger fleets. For example, in one run, I had split my forces into 5 main battle groups as I was fighting on different flanks. While assisting my allies against the end game crisis at the time, one enemy fleet managed to make it into my territory and attack my 2nd battle group's headquarters. That station was a citadel and it was working on pumping out a colossus at the time which was needed to finish the war once and for all. Had it not been for the strictly military citadel, I would have lost a crucial part of my plans, but the citadel, armed with 2 ion cannons and max defense platforms not only held its ground but once a smaller fleet which I had guarding another system arrived and caused the enemy's fleet to turn away from the citadel and start focusing on them, the citadel managed to shred the remainder of their ships to pieces thus proving very effective. Needless to say I immediately redirected a much larger fleet back to that sector to defend until the colossus was finished but it just proves that if used right, a citadel can be the difference between victory and defeat.
Also worth noting that Outposts can spawn Defense Platforms; not good for enemy fleets, but since, (especially in late game if you're trade is going insane), pirates will still pop up- so making every system with a main trade route strong enough to splash the pirate scum is quite helpful.
This is one video I'm going to have to disagree on. Even in the late game I use stations as a way to minimize losses to my fleets. If you know where an enemy fleet is going to arrive set your fleet a mid distance away from the station on the opposite side of the system the enemy fleet will arrive. The enemy will engage the station first (whose power doesn't really change outside of defense platform losses), your fleet will engage the enemy, and then the enemy fleet will get strung out and pulled into a very thin line that will put many of the smaller ships way out of position and leave nothing but their bigger ships behind stuck between sometimes shooting the station and sometimes your fleet. It's probably a cheese tactic since this is using the fact that the fleet AI seem to bounce priority constantly when caught like this
I mostly use them just for specialist jobs like anchorage. but I do love the security of having a fully upgraded starbases on my choke points, and in newly conquered territory an as a reminder to my new xeno slaves of exactly whose in charge.
Saw a lot of comments regarding Lathland's super Citadels. People seem to forget that at a similar tech level, the battleship doomstacks will still absolutely dwarf the Citadels' power. With optimized play, you can have about 1.5-2m fleet power with a little under 5 repeatables by the time crisis arrives with 2250 endgame date (so it arrives around 2310-2320ish). Take that to 2400+ when Lathland had his super Citadels, and your fleet power should easily break into the 10-20m range or higher. Also, in optimized play for 2250 endgame, you don't have the luxury of neat little choke points since you're almost always beelining planets for the population and often have to end wars early due to another war on the other side of your empire. And after you snowball, no AI will want to declare war on you, with or without Citadel choke points. And finally, starbases aren't actually good for getting fleet capacity lategame; you build Armories on specialized planets since your starbase cap of ~20 won't be enough to get the 2000+ capacity required to hit the 1.5m+ fleet power goal by the early crisis date. My main use for starbases in these runs is for fleet capacity before I start building up my Armory planets as well as getting some storage to bank resources.
I tend to put citadels at chokes, but I put the crew quarters on them to station defensive fleets there. Also, mid-game is a good time to spam starholds above all planets for the Black Sites and Hyperlane Registrars, really helps with getting your fleets around.
NSC changed things up with Starbases turning them into literal fortresses that given Fallen Empires grief if decked out properly including Fortress Defence Platforms especially if you go Layered Defence
One big station with only the hangars and one with only the trade hubs + gateway network. To protect and collect all the trade value. Spread shipyards on several, but far away from borders. Combine shipyards with anchorages to squeeze out all the fleet capacity that you can squeeze out at any given time. Do not cluster shipyards+anchorages stations, spread them around and connect with gateways as well. Make sure that it is hard to cripple your empire by the enemy by just taking one or two key stations. Spread your specialized colonies as well for the same reason. Research regenerative hull tissue early on if you can, all your stations will have it the same way they get FTL inhibitors. Combine defensive stations in the early game and against any crisis with systems that have environmental hazards that are not just coming from a system being in a nebula. Do not use Citadels for anchorages, save those alloys for reinforcing fleets and/or retrofitting them to hard counter the enemy fleets. That is my philosophy at least.
I use stations like you describe for baiting enemies onto them and then have my fleet attack, but I do this for longer than you do. It's not like it's hard to set up a choke point where a fallen empire has to come through to attack me, and adding a bunch of hitpoints alone to the battle is helpful. However, for real defense, if I feel I can't hold my borders, I just build habitats and make it a fortress. Fully decked out, it holds.
One of my favourite games I played was one where I role played xenophobic isolation but I spawned next to marauders so in true role play style I took all the accession perks for starbases and defence platforms. By the time I stopped playing deep into the late game they had an on paper strength of ~65k fleet power and when they actually engaged anything it was about 80k after combat buffs. This was in pretty much every one of my ~20 systems.
I always build them in my capitol system, shipyard systems, and any system with a megastructure in it. Also, place them at choke points on the borders and connect ALL of them through gates. In my capitol system is always a rapid reaction fleet that can respond to any of those chokepoints or other important system. That fleet IS NOT for invading other empires or anything else you would use a fleet for, it is the fleet that will defend my empire if some bad shit goes down while my other fleets are away. The citadels might not completely stop an invasion in its tracks but it will slow it down until my rapid reaction fleet jumps in to end the threat and can support the fleet in driving the filthy invaders out of my empire before they do to much damage.
he should really cover nsc, and all the kew types of ships it adds, like the exploration cruisers, the strike cruisers, the PD destroyers and so on. generally some vid on mod "balznce" would help
I tend to use them as forward operating shipyards. The idea to fix your ships on the front line instead of jumping back to home base means i save time on the travel and repair
I usually build a citadel on my home planet and max it out w/ shipyards. Once the home system is deep inside friendly space. I'll do that again as far flung planets become well inside friendly space.
the stations in my current game are at almost 100k Power I think they are serving their role just fine, They are a Investment though and a costly one if your not flush with resources But at every entrance to my core systems there will always be a Battle station.
Y'know speaking of stations, perhaps in future the Enigmatic Fortress could be made into one? Similarly to how the Automated Dreadnought or Prethoryn Queen can be added to your fleet? Been awhile since I did the Fortress, but I recall it unlocks a whole bunch of tech. Alternatively maybe we could get a special starbase event chain, from a precursor civilization? With old or abandoned stations that you can repair and use to claim a system, without using influence?
Having a Defensive line made up of star bases ensure that any enemy fleet that tries to get through has to take that station that can chew their forces up. Which if you are strategic about your fleet positioning can cause a huge mess for any opposing force if you catch them in a pincer. I call it Hammer and Anvil.
I agree, the comms jammer is fantastic, especially in a black hole system where the additive debuffs allow you to draw in and crush the enemy fleet in a way they'll never recover.
Stations are also how you gather trade value and how you boost your fleet strength, so you always need to build to your maxim at least up to fortress level for that reason alone. I always build citadels at key border choke points, if only for the fleet boosts. What isn't mentioned is that late game, if you've focused on keeping sprawl in check or have just got deep on research, the repeatable techs for weapons and station firepower/defense values can see your defensive citadels become very powerful. Tend not put more than 1 ion cannon on tho, given firing rate is so poor. Technically but late game you are going to have a sentry array so outside of the crisis, you should know where your enemies are and be able to deploy fleets accordingly - stations are by then mostly for adding fleet strength, ship building/repair, trade gathering/protection and occasionally special module use like boosting global mineral storage etc. But as I say. the deeper you dive into repeatable techs, the stronger the citadels become (as indeed is the case with your fleets). Can get a bit crazy.
I have noticed that the AI basically B-lines straight to wormholes and gateways. I had the khan send 5 fleets into my system with a full citadel and 4 ion cannons + my doomstack fleet, mopped the khan up before I realized it was over seems to happen anytime I have a wormhole or gateway though, the Ai seems to think its quicker to path to there instead of anywhere else
if you disassemble a module on a station in a fight, it resets its full health. not advisable in multiplayer pvp (is seen as exploit, unfixed since forever), but it might make your heavy station defend more in single player - you can have up to 6 resets that way, regaining shield and armor value (minus what the module gave). it does not work on captured stations. it might also work with downgrading. if you build defense platforms with almost nothing on them on outposts, they will also suppress piracy for very little upkeep.
I am a turtler so I tend to utilize my starbases a lot. They have helped me decimate everything that enters my space. Combine your choke points with fortress habitats or worlds and the AI is pretty much stuck in said choke point even if they take out the starbase if you have that one tech that keeps them from jumping. You can just slam your forces into them constantly while they bomb your fortress worlds.
Stations on pulsars are great. They still have half their defensive slots to shields, wich do nothing at all! They'll also gladly pick whatever weapon they feel like regardless of that "no one has shield" situation too.
I usually slap citadels on wormholes, gateways, and lgates. Then i slat the supercomputer and then spam a fuckload of ion cannons and top it off with base defense platforms.
So basically, star bases go from front line defensive structures to cut off choke points, into a strong support that buffs you and your allies while debuffing your enemies. I always keep star bases at my choke points fully upgraded for that very reason, just in the later game I make sure to keep a fleet or 2 hanging around so it doesn't immediately fall into enemy hands and I can get some reinforcements in. Star bases are severely underrated in the late game, they can truely turn the tide of a close war. They are perfect for setting elaborate traps, and their buffs, debuffs, and ship building capacity make them perfect as a staging ground in a defensive war. Aggressive empires may have limited uses for them, but for a pacifist empire they can be the difference between winning the war, and complete and utter annihilation. For the man who speaks with might, they are useless. For the man who seeks to out think his opponent, they are powerful. For the man who does both, they are the glue that holds his empire together.
Stations are great late game.... I'd never be able to super my huge fleets without all that naval capacity they give. I often want more stations to support larger fleets. :)
Just in case you are not aware: if you click on a Starbase, then on the Starbase tab at the bottom of the window and press K, you can see all its weapons and modules.
Just watched a Lathland stellaris episode where he went and got his Citadels to nearly 1 million fleet power each. Completely stomped the max difficulty end game crisis whenever they tried to enter his systems.
300,000 fleet came into my border, destroyed by 200,000 citadel. I pretty much consider my built-up citadels to be closed borders. I've had them damaged when I tried becoming the crisis mid-game when they were only 40k.
I tend to tech up to citadels so fast that they generally are 20-30k ahead of most ai enemy fleets by the time they're built. And they are easier to sustain that big enough fleets.
Builds a citadel and deck it out with only the huge ion cannons, have a fleet of mass corvets, let enemy fleet fight the corvets while the citadel picks off all their big ships.
So here's my question. With all the additive bonuses of repeating techs, what is the strongest defense bastion build? Personally I'm a fan of missiles, but I can see the merit of a hangar bay to blot out the sun too. I'm just not sure which is the most efficient in tying down and exterminating all those filthy xenos.
Play a science focused tall materialist with mechanist/technocracy. Lathland did this, he picked the relevant defence platform perks and managed to get his citadels up to 400K with 20+ repeatable before 2400, enough even to discourage the Prethoryn! So long as you don’t start next to a Purifier or Swarm, it’s totally viable to go full fortress turtle. Galactic geography permitting, I should also mention Pulsar + Plasma / armour combo which can create impenetrable choke points even in the early-mid game with relatively little effort, excepting that the main station still auto equips shields and anti shield weaponry for some dum reason... :-/
Aspec: “Starbases are basically useless in the late game”
Lathrix: ‘proceeds to contain a max strength scourge invasion using only starbases’
800k starbase are no joke
@@alexlapierre3350 That would not be a vanilla starbase.
@@SteelsCrow it was vanilla, he tech rushed hard
@@SteelsCrow Actually it was, he did a hard focus tech rush fairly pacifist game, the video is worth a watch if you feel the need to confirm, once you start stacking repeatables far enough the citadel effective fleet power grows exponentially.
@@SteelsCrow He also had (I think) three Strategic Coordination Centers (two gained from other empires), which gave incredible buffs
ASpec: "do not build Citadels unless for titans etc."
Me: upgrades all my 30 stations in to Citadels...
Same here xD
With gateway also ^^
@@mealyaUrtem Gateways are and useful af, in a game I have going on I have gateways in major shipyards, trade centers, and on the border of my space so I can resupply and handle two front wars REALLY well
When you lean that maybe ASpec isn't as good as he thinks he is.
I fill them with guns and defense platforms and they are an excellent deterrent even in late game. Just design them accordingly
One understated advantage to the Starbase is that while expensive, they are only disabled, not destroyed, like ships.
sure, but unlike your ships which stay dead forever, a starbase gets reactivated under the control of who disabled it and shoots back at you, costing you even more ships.
@@nickcrusaire depends on the war type and if the system has been claimed. In many situations you end up getting it back for free once the war ends.
@@GaratghDeloi I think he means during the war. When the enemy takes the system, once the base reactivates, you have to spend ships to get it back under your control.
Though it's worth considering that you have to blow it back up to regain control.
@@necreousnilheim1832 true.
While I tend to avoid relying on stations much in the mid game, I actually find myself using border defense citadels on every entrance to my space in the late game. I find that the buffs to friendly ships and extra ~20k fleet power from a military focused citadel can really help turn the tide of the battle if you can lure the enemy into attacking your fleet in a citadel system. Defense citadels also guarantee that the enemy can't just distract and annoy you by quickly taking undefended systems when you have a large empire. Large fleets outgun a citadel any day, but managing to force the enemy to use a large fleet to enter your space can often buy you some much needed time to maneuver your fleets into position in order to minimize territory loss. I almost always regard defense platforms as a sunk cost though. The only time I ever really pursue defense platforms or ion cannons is in the latest stages of the game when I have 60k alloys and nothing else to practically spend them on.
Exactly what I think, and how I use them! losing half your empire to a sole 10-20k raiding fleet was never fun when your fleets were ages away.
I completely agree.
th-cam.com/video/bDSyx1cVuxc/w-d-xo.html
After seeing this video I don´t know if citadels with defence platforms are that weak.
you guys can play to lategame?
Pretty much what I do I expand into systems that are choke points then as resources become abundant and the tech is researched I build star bases in those systems. I have a few that are citadels in the game I am playing that are 40k fleet power. I also strategically place gateways in systems not too far away from those citadels so I can respond quickly to threats. Also they double as trade routes so eventually I don't need to rely on patrols to keep piracy down because the trade goes though the gateway network.
“Stations arent really that useful”
*laughs while watching Lathland getting 800,000 fleet-power on a Single station*
Kisstune Inferno it’s aspects opinion one thing I’ve learned is never listen to youtubers 100 percent
*watches it get chumped by a squadron of corvettes*
Bee doctrine is no joke
You know late game you can just warp past them??
Cosmonauts Jam He was using them to keep the 5x End Game crisis contained, not to really stop anyone, plus this was in singleplayer and well..... AI empires almost never use the jump drives.....
@@computerkitsune First off, I've never seen an AI use Jump Drive at all.
Second, it's going to be impossible for the AI to get powerful enough to beat one of those things, place one next to a wormhole, next to a choke point or two and one in each system with a planet and you're unbeatable through and through, especially if you have a gateway network to each one and multiple 250K fleets. Hell, a Star Fortress with 9 or 10 defense platforms managed to kill 1 Unbidden fleet out of the 2 that attacked it on normal difficulty, imagine if I'd gotten it to be fully functional, and it wouldn't even be a fifth of the power of one of Lathland's citadels
I find myself disagreeing here a bit. You're right in that in a fight between equals, a citadel usually doesn't mean much. Any empire with the alloy output and technology to build one can also build a fleet that can take even a citadel down with negligible losses if unsupported.
What they DO allow, however, is to act as a delay on incoming enemies (the more hp they have, the more days the enemy is stuck firing) and to stop both reinforcements and smaller enemy fleets from passing. All too often I find myself fighting multiple enemies, some of which are light-weights but could still hurt me significantly by taking out systems or occupying planets to deny me resources while my fleets are away to deal with the actual primary enemy. Beefy citadels in key locations put a definite limit to this.
Well built, a citadel works like the sign in an amusement park - you must be at least this tall to board this ride. You could argue that a fleet built from the same alloys would work similarly and I tried that, but in practice I almost always end up concentrating my forces so a smaller "deterrence" fleet would just end up in the same pile simply because of how battles work in Stellaris. The more you use, the less you lose.
Citadels can also protect you way into mid game if you play a dense map with slow tech and go for technological superiority yourself. Enemies can still crack them with weight of numbers, but if the citadel is more advanced than them that can become expensive and, again, serves to buy you time if the enemy does happen to rock in with enough ships to eventually take it out.
Exactly this. They won't stop a determined attacker, but the automatic FTL jammer will keep any small 1-5k fleets from trashing your outposts while your main fleet is fighting elsewhere. I find them most useful for the listening post (which was surprisingly not mentioned), because I can see when a big fleet is approaching and make sure my main fleet is there to greet them when they arrive.
@@EstrellaViajeViajero Yup. Lategame that's not that important anymore because of jump drives or gateways, but early to late mid game having the advanced warning and fire support is pretty dope.
Heck, just the reduced emergency FTL chance means more ship losses for the enemy = more attrition even if the guns never fire a shot.
I LOVE your 'must be this tall to ride' comment! I use bases as tripwires on my chokepoint systems when I'm fighting a war with someone else. I hate trying to attack in one direction and then some pirate outbreak occurs on the other side of my space. Once my bases are 5k+ then an enemy has to commit something serious to get by.
@@Comicsluvr Yeah, and you've often got partially destroyed fleets flying around in drips and drabs as they escape from a losing battle and then fly back into danger.
Stuff like that and the fleets of smaller tributaries or vassals often can't challenge a good solid fortress and it keeps your economy secure while your fleets are moving on with their rampage. ^^
A well placed citadel isn't just impacting enemy fleet maneuvers, but also their economy because lost ships will have to be replaced. With a fast response fleet nearby, one can even force bigger fleets to retreat, further increasing time and resource investments as well as war exhaustion. While the enemy will have to regroup and produce new ships, that downtime can be used to take key systems and/or fortify choke-points. The way I see it, citadels are a one-time long-term investment that allows to control regions of space much more efficiently if done right.
So, why can’t we design star bases like we can platforms again?
you used to be able to if I'm remembering correctly I miss that
Because then you'll need a starbase design for every module combination, and the Stellaris programmers wasn't sure how to manage that in a way that didn't just clog up your designer screen.
@@day2148 atleast having control over the base star base design would be nice outside of modules. having shields and anti shield weapons in systems where they dont matter is really grinding my gears sometimes because thats DPS that is missing that could win you battles.
and it would not be to hard for just the base have 1 design and just mark wich part belongs to wich lvl of upgrade.
@@mbos14 oh I agree. I'm simply presenting their problem. There are many solutions, they simply haven't prioritized on the issue.
HOnestly, they ought to remove platforms, and give us the option to design the bases themselves.
3:34 - uh...target uplink computer hasn't been a rare technology for some time now. it comes as a standard choice out of the box.
Weird, could swear it was. Must be thinking of something else.
@@A_Spec Defense-Grid Supercomputer I suspect :)
@@garethmitchell7723 it definitely was for me in my last driven assimilators playthrough
Likely
Defense-Grid Supercomputers aren't that much of rare tech though, I feel like I've generally gotten them long before I need to start supplementing my space stations with defense platforms anyway
For even more shenanigans, build defense platform with the hangar loadout.
How much stike craft you want?
Yes
Edit: now just add a stirke craft fleet in the system, and you'll block out the sun in SPACE!
"Sir, the enemy strike craft are blocking out the sun!"
"Then we shall fight in the shade."
before i saw your response, i posted mine - scroll up a bit ;)
how else do they exert Zone of Control, I ask you?
@@OrangeRising i approve
5 ion canon Citadel: **exists**
Jump Drives: "allow us to introduce ourselves"
Citadel owner: You didn't think I forgot to build a fleet, did you?
How do you use jump drives? I can never get any ship to jump
@@flopus7 Make sure every ship of your strike force is upgraded and to disband every event ship, or at least put them in some "misfleet" patrolling between your main tade centers.
Just going to jump to one of my other citadels....
It's actually interesting strategic choice - do you drag through citadel (and even if it's comparatively weak, it'll snipe bunch of battleships) or do you take hefty jump drive nerf (leaving you more exposed to fleets).
What I realy "love" about stations: They develop shields even in systems with pulsars and similar, where shields are 100% useless.
Or anti shield weapons.
That's a cool feature, I didn't even know they have this kind of advantage
I like Citadels when turtling. Though in general they help stall fleets whilst you move in yours and weaken them too, (or by time to rebuild), they also prevent mid sized raiding fleets. I dont build defence platforms unless i'm flush, because they tend to die way to quickly to bother.
In conjunction with a "support station" for your fleet "behind", (and if possible a fortress world in front) can prevent many offensive actions against you.
I see them as way to create an active defence. Its great if you're not that strong compared to hostile empires, and/or fighting a number of empires surrounding you at once, You only have so many fleets in so many places!
With the modifiers they offer too, it can really help in tight battles. plus they can become strong enough to resit end game crisis' fleets,(except fallen empires), on their own which can be very useful, again freeing up fleets to do whatever they need to do.
They are oft the anvil to the hammer of my fleets.
One unmentioned thing. A system with a starbase affects how the AI chooses Claims
Really?
Anchorages, Ship yards (Every slot has a ship yard) so that you can refit lots of ships fast?
By mid to late game my concern is what to do with all my resources and increasing my star base capacity.
I use completely beefed up star bases to act as speed bumps at all borders and internal ones to increase ship capacity and help planet development.
I don't worry about pirates at all and deal with the minor outbreaks as needed, especially once I have gateways in every third system.
Resource storage depo's on all internal star bases and maxed out ion cannons at all borders and keep those things updated, it's money well spent.
I keep the number of star bases almost at capacity all game. The biggest and the smallest take the same points, 1, so why not build them up.
Current game, no station mods, I am plus 1700 Alloy a month. I'm 4k minerals surplus a month, so maybe I'll just build more mineral to alloy buildings.
It takes no time at all to run up a reserve of 150k out of a storage capacity of 500k.
Sorry, can't disagree more on this.
OK I really looked into this (4 months later) and have decided I was COMPLETELY wrong. I grossly underrated the amount of fleet logistic increases I got as the size of defending armies increased over time.
I watched while in a very short time rose about 2k points.
Now I'm wondering what other estimations I made are just as wrong.
Damn game.
i completely agree with you but i think this might be due to the economic buildstyle you or I use allowing us to do so
I'm in something of a similar situation, though I'm not to that level of income yet, but I'm trending that direction. My fleet has been sitting in drydock ready to be deployed for over a century now. I'm 140 years into a game where I'm seeking the 200 years of peace with a pacifist empire achievement. By hard rushing technology and keeping my fleet at my naval capacity, my fleet power is Overwhelming compared to all other Empires and with no wars to worry about, I'm not losing any ships and I can spend my alloys to occasionally update my ships, occasionally add ships to my fleets, upgrade star bases to citadels, and build megastructures.
I have maximally updated Citadels bristling with weaponry (and Ion Cannons) at my borders, and my fleets are sitting in a central system with a gateway in the system for instant response in the event that an enemy does attack. Yes, the power of the Star Fortress won't stop an enemy fleet of sufficient size but it will delay them long enough to get my fleet into position though those gateways. (You called it a peed bump at your border, and that's what they are.) And if they want to come through Gateways to attack, the only gateways in my territory are in systems where I already have Citadels and the system where I'm keeping my fleet.
@@Karthos1000 unless they changed it rather recently you cant move through (into or out of) a gateway controlled by a nation you are at war with so no worries about that the only exception is the L-gates but they act more like wormholes
What you are describing tho is a game that from an economic perspective, already is won. Won't matter what you do you will win anyway since you double outproduce everyone. The Trurtle strat like that to build up defences is something I also do but most of the time I just realise I get over prepared and could have saved time more by investing those alloys more aggressively
@@jarnovanherreweghe218 That is very possible and have wondered the same thing.
My concern is not having the resources to follow through in a war.
I don't want to go into a war like the AI does, not being able to exploit some advantage or having to stop short because I ran out of resources.
Citadels have saved my ass from awakened empires numerous times. My 130k fleet against their 180k fleet, but then add in my 70k citadel and I was able to decimate them. They ARE useful imo
Aspec: "Do not use starbases late game"
Me quarantining the Scourge using escort fleets on citadels
"I am a joke to you"
I miss old starbases :/
I miss filling entire system with mines
MINES? Sins of a solar empire flashbacks
Agreed, I miss mines
@@fusselgammler469 i was paying sins not to long ago finishing up some achievements and remembered halfway through that i hadn't mined every planet yet
@@stoirmslw7195 Vasari Rebell here, who needs mines if you can have 1 maxed out starbase in every system and a phasegate network to get them all to the enemy homeplanet?
jeah the game got some balance issues
@@fusselgammler469 i see your starbase & phasegates and raise you 2 starbases that are fully upgraded in every system
I did a isolationist playthrough and it worked great with my 150k citadells
Yeah... With inward perfection it's cool
@@mealyaUrtem jup called me the Space Switzerland
Meanwhile in modded Stellaris: Combat Strength of 1 because the number is above 999k and isnt displayable
Those are rookie numbers.
CyberConnect2chan I got a 14 million fleet before with mods
Many are not aware, but you can build defense platforms on stations (not star bases). It helps dealing against single or weak ships.
I do think they help deter the enemy, and it does weaken them or buys you time to counter. It comes to a point where the enemy cannot advance because another star base is in the next area and they need to rebuild/repair their fleet.
If you were trying to mention the ODPs super macs of halo those fire a *3000* ton projectile at *.04* the speed of light. Yes, the damage it can do is ridiculous.
Actually that's just 50 Gigatons of energy there are many sci fis out there (like Stargate) where that is Insignificant
@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 thanks fam very cool
@@trashf1re it would also be insignificant by Stellaris standards as even tier one sublight drives move much faster then that
@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil5547 I am curious, what is your source?
@@commanderknight9314 mathematics, I calculated it myself because of a discussion about Halo I had with a friend once (the conclusion was that Halo weaponry has the equivalent of water pistols in Stargate)
I would argue that the effectiveness of starbases depends on if you're playing pvp or pve. Against other players they'll be more of a hindrance than an aid unless you have a fleet close by to assist because the player attacking you will likely have positioned his fleet close enough to get there way before you do which means he'll take the system and now you have to fight what survived of his fleet AND your own station. So unless you have a fleet close by or a gateway they can use then it's not so great. And early on a player will just go around them.
Against AI on the other hand you can usually keep the starbase at a pretty decent power level compared to AI empire fleets. Some of the same principles still apply. You wouldn't want a starbase next to an AI strong enough to overwhelm it with minor casualties. But if you have a fleet strong enough to take it back yourself and it cripples the AI when they attack it's probably worth it. Mostly though against AI you have some idea of which empires will declare war on you so you can always keep an eye on them and keep a fleet nearby whenever you don't have a truce so that you are ready to defend. If your starbase and your nearby fleet have a combined fleetpower equal to the threatening empire and you know what they'll use(and often even if you don't) you'll likely win easily. Unless their ships counter yours.
The main thing about bastions is the fact that they regenerate imho. If you defend against an attack. For this example we'll say it's early game and you lose 5 corvettes out of 20 defending along side the starbase. If you had built ships instead of a bastion you might have had more ships to defend with but it's also very possible you would have taken WAY more casualties since the bastion tanks a lot of damage and it regenerates it for free even if it goes down in battle.
Another point I can come up with is that bastions wreck fleets if we're talking logistics. Both in the fact that they free up some naval capacity if you need less ships to properly defend and in them having a much better upkeep/fleetpower ratio.
Of course all of this is just my thoughts and opinions. Feel free to let me know if something doesn't add up or I'm missing something/got something wrong.
Border stations + gateway network. My fleet can almost instantly reinforce it, making extra firepower to fight an incoming fleet. It's also a great bait to force enemies to fight.
This. I put a gateway in all my shipyard systems. Any losses I might incur can be quickly replenished... feels so awesome to see ships show up in rapid fire from a gateway.
I like to build citadels on chokepoints then either colonise any planets in that system or build habitats and make fortress worlds. The citadel will deal with any weak fleets so that I'm not having to worry about defence so much during a war, if a strong enemy fleet turns up, the citadel will at least weaken their fleet while my fleet is on it's way and the planet/habitat will hold them in place should the citadel fall.
Citradels are ment to slow down enemys and to stop them from sending small fleets all over your empire. Also putting the alloys into fleet, means you need the fleetcap. Asuming 1 station gives you a max 36, i would say a citydel will have more power than those 4 battleships or 36 corvets, and also less costly. Sure, you cant atack with it, but not losing 10 systems to 10k fleets, resulting in huge production losses or even fleet capacity(Purifiers...)makes them worth building. I think the discussion should be, are defensplatforms any good, couse you lose tons of them even against much smaller fleets than your citadels fighting power. So maybe a video about defensplatforms, what to use or how they should be changed, to be not wasted aloys?
Ah yeah... Stations in vanilla... Thanks for reminding me that I should wait for not just the next update, but also the mods' updates as well~
Stellaris : The waiting game
laughts in making the fleet power calculation overflow fromva single grand fortress
I usually use the stations as a defensive delaying action at chock points
In the future, remote outposts are armed with nuclear missiles.
I thought it was obvious a StarBase is meant to support a reinforcing fleet ;-; especially when you have gateways. Like a titan (with point defense platforms to help with rockets)
Ok, I admit that I can't play stellaris without mods anymore, but I really really think the NSC solar fortresses etc are what starbases should be late game.
They can't move, and are meant to defend, so in my opinion they should offer a slightly more efficient transformation of alloys in power.
And with NSC you get actual bastions that rival the enigmatic fortress, being a stationary weapon platform that still can be destroyed using a strong fleet, or by exploiting weaknesses in the defenses.
Yes the NSC and a few other starbase mods make them much more enjoyable.
Legends say there was once a citadel which saw the power difference between starbases and fleets and decided to join the fleets. This is how the first juggernaut came to be.
I would suggest personally that starbases become much more effective when you use them in concert with a fleet, because the base comes with inherent bonuses to range, tracking, and fire rate for both the base and any platforms that come with it. They are very desirable to have on a choke point system, especially as they come with a lot of buildings that add blanket buffs and debuffs to friendly/enemy fleets. This also means that hangars are probably not the best combat module choice, because they don't benefit from the bonuses to tracking/range/fire rate etc.
Stations will be sniped down if you try to use them on their own, but they will continue to fight effectively if you screen them with a fleet, because the enemy fleet will disperse its fire across multiple targets.
Communication Jammer is also great because itreduces emergency FTL. So you can destroy more ships
Have you seen Lathland's recent video? His citadels could defend against the Scourge!
Target Uplink Computer is great. It's my go to first choice for frontline military stations. It really helps avoid that awkward situation once you have long range ships where a co-stationed fleet will sometimes engage an enemy outside of the station's range.
Communications Jammer is usually my next pick, slower sublight speed and steeper losses for the baddies is a win-win for me.
Well it also depends on what type of empire you are, as a determent exterminator you do get a 43% bonus to fire rate, so choosing hangers wouldn't be the best choice as it is less fire power you send against the enemy per second. I would argue that missles might have a place here, as they have the longest range and with an increase in fire rate the would slowly overpower a fleet not going all in on defense. Not to mention if all your platformes where missles too it would help, and they are better when shooting at smaller targets too.
That said larger guns on platformes would and station would also work, as there is no lose because of interception, but they do less damage, have worse accuracy and shorter range, so your engagement time before your also fired upon would be smaller too.
A single Star Fortress close to your homeworld with 6 Trade Hubs will cover pretty much the entire empire (6 Hyperlane radius) for collecting trade value without the use of Gates, with the use of Gates it would cover EVERYTHING. This would work well in conjunction with a Star Fortress with 6 Hanger Bays protecting your trade routes (again a 6 Hyperlane Radius). Building 1 Citadel to build ships (probably with 6 Shipyards), 1 Star Fortress to collect Trade and 1 Star Fortress to protect Trade in adjacent systems is way more effecent than building a dozen mixed use stations and easier to defend and allows all additional stations to be purely combat focused to provide fleet support at choke point systems. As for why you would want 6 shipyards in one station, well that is simply refit speed, 1 shipyard refits one ship, 6 shipyards refit 6 ships at the same time.
If you get the !-Starbase - Extended-! mod a single Citadel optimized for combat can chew through most fleets and seriously damage those fleets that it can't kill. Ads on the fact that one filled with shipyards can build 35 ships at a time it's a great mod to get if you want to beef up starbases.
Once your economy is going and you have +200 to +600 monthly income for each resource it doesn't matter the cost.
Fair
Depends what you're looking from a station I guess, I love to put upgraded stations on a chokepoint mostly to benefit from that reduction of shields on the enemy and sublight speed (and listening post early game to know when fleets are spproaching) mostly as a backup to main fleet but it does give a good boost when fighting in the system. What does bug me that lategame stations are just being wiped by fleets no matter how many extra defence platforms you have, they can stall enemy for a bit sure but in the end all your defence stations are lost and have to be rebuilt which takes too much time and alloys. I think defence platforms need to be cheaper or become part of station and simply be disabled/recaptured as stations do
This is why I like the mod that makes Starbases even more dangerous ala 20 Starbase Modules and Buildings. Which is fun!
NSC extra ships iirc. I originally downloaded it because it was required for a submod of warship girl R, wich was recommended to me by a friend
Man, nsc truly changed everything in the game
it's si good to get the extra palnet output moduleif you're playing frameworld or hyperflora or any other challenges that reduce your planet choice
Definitely do not agree that starbases are useless.. many players compare the defensive power of a starbase against an enemy fleet. Unless extremely overpowered, a single starbase can not match a decent fleet. This is a strategic flaw. Your fleet positioning needs to be able to support the starbase during an impending attack. Take a starbase any day supported with a minor fleet and it will prove its worth against any invading fleet.
A recently upgraded starbase is an extra (and tough) target for the invading fleet, soaking up damage that would otherwise be directed at your fleet. Less destroyed ships means longer sustained firepower. Starbase weapons are attrition. The longer the enemy fleet stays, the more damage they take. Coupled with the strategic value of starbases to replenish and repair your fleets, starbases should be the most important strategic factor to consider on the galactic map.
Jeez...I play with so many mods I completely forgot the slots you get on vanilla stations
NSC? ;)
This gave me the grandest of plans.
Build Citidel at key choke point.
Have 1-2 ion cannons.
Create a fleet of naked corvettes, or when a large enemy fleet starts heading towards said system spam naked corvettes and let the ion cannons destroy the enemy fleet.
Profit.
That's what I do with 3 Ion cannons and a Citadel (with all buffs and debuffs for fleet combat installed ), a Fire rate lowering Titan and a shield lowering Titan and 200k worth of Corvettes
JagotheGamer it worked for the rebel, yes? ;)
Naked corvetes, maybe you would want to build invasion fleet, only 100-50 minerals. Also they get best armor shield tech, they are a lot better than naked corvettes. I sometimes use them to engage an enemy fleet first, they just sponge the first volley of enemy attack, and then my fleet engages.
Once tried to take over someones 400k+ citadel.
It took like 30 minutes to arrive there and then the game crashed after getting into the 2 minutes per month timeframe of max speed.
Classic stellaris endgame performance.
I have a mod, can't remember which one, that adds more buildings and modules to starbases, both in number and type. It also adds 1-2 more starbase levels which pretty much make them able to to kill or at least hold off most fleets.
How do ai’s deal with them or do they not get the upgrades?
@@bubbles7608 The ai did use them, just not to the extent a player could. The final station levels are expensive.
The nsc3?
@@13akful Might be
"The only way out is through"
I love invading as far as a starbase just to repair once I get there
They're worth using as walls. Computer rarely tries to attack those who turtle
I find them useful, but my alloys primarily go to fleets first, stations second. They buff fleets in the area, and can hold out long enough for my fleets to get in system. It is a big investment, which is why you should prioritize fleets first. My best empires tend to have huge alloy production, and I can max out my fleet size.
my set up is generally.
one citadel near a central location with 6 shipyards with fleet academy, titan yard, hyperplane register, and crew quarters
1-3 trade protection platforms
1-3 trade collection platforms
~3 border stations with disruption field generators, command centers, and communications jammer
Everything else is just anchorages with logistics office, hyper lane register, and special buildings like the curator think tank or black hole observatory.
Even with that reduced power in late, they are still usefull as a "dangerous zone deterent". With Target Uplink & Shield Jammer, they will fire upon anything that enters your zones, wich is VERY nice and forces ennemy into retreat if you have fleets.
As someone who tends to turtle until my tech and eco is overwhelming star bases can be a good deterrent against the AI
They are unquestionably weak AF but in the long term can be cheaper than having a navy.
For wars I will use the defence platforms to unload a barrage of weapon fire using a small fleet of decoy corvettes (high evade high hull) so the base can deal more damage and provide enough time for my real fleet to jump in
I like having a pair of citadels on the choke points into my territory. A Bastion on the edge and a shipyard a jump away to rapidly refit my fleets.
In war I crush their fleets and then the weakened survivors like to fly in around behind me to attack. But since they've been weakened they can't make it past my bastions. Free's me up to go straight for their starbases and take them out so they cannot recover.
I find citadels quite useful actually. Especially for protecting systems of high importance such as my capital and any system in which I have built a Dyson Sphere. The reason being that even though the station can be destroyed in late game, in most cases, if not all, it manages to hold the enemy off long enough for my main fleet to not only return to my space but make it all the way back to said systems. Furthermore, in the cases where my main fleet is nowhere nearby, having a citadel allows me to use any of my much smaller fleets to win battles against larger fleets. For example, in one run, I had split my forces into 5 main battle groups as I was fighting on different flanks. While assisting my allies against the end game crisis at the time, one enemy fleet managed to make it into my territory and attack my 2nd battle group's headquarters. That station was a citadel and it was working on pumping out a colossus at the time which was needed to finish the war once and for all. Had it not been for the strictly military citadel, I would have lost a crucial part of my plans, but the citadel, armed with 2 ion cannons and max defense platforms not only held its ground but once a smaller fleet which I had guarding another system arrived and caused the enemy's fleet to turn away from the citadel and start focusing on them, the citadel managed to shred the remainder of their ships to pieces thus proving very effective. Needless to say I immediately redirected a much larger fleet back to that sector to defend until the colossus was finished but it just proves that if used right, a citadel can be the difference between victory and defeat.
Also worth noting that Outposts can spawn Defense Platforms; not good for enemy fleets, but since, (especially in late game if you're trade is going insane), pirates will still pop up- so making every system with a main trade route strong enough to splash the pirate scum is quite helpful.
"You can put gun batteries there and they'll shoot guns"
You high on acid again, ASpec?
Gods, I wish.
This is one video I'm going to have to disagree on. Even in the late game I use stations as a way to minimize losses to my fleets. If you know where an enemy fleet is going to arrive set your fleet a mid distance away from the station on the opposite side of the system the enemy fleet will arrive. The enemy will engage the station first (whose power doesn't really change outside of defense platform losses), your fleet will engage the enemy, and then the enemy fleet will get strung out and pulled into a very thin line that will put many of the smaller ships way out of position and leave nothing but their bigger ships behind stuck between sometimes shooting the station and sometimes your fleet. It's probably a cheese tactic since this is using the fact that the fleet AI seem to bounce priority constantly when caught like this
I mostly use them just for specialist jobs like anchorage. but I do love the security of having a fully upgraded starbases on my choke points, and in newly conquered territory an as a reminder to my new xeno slaves of exactly whose in charge.
Ah a person of culture
What about trade hub or shipyard focused stations? Should be simply not build those? And try to make ships out of will power?
Saw a lot of comments regarding Lathland's super Citadels. People seem to forget that at a similar tech level, the battleship doomstacks will still absolutely dwarf the Citadels' power. With optimized play, you can have about 1.5-2m fleet power with a little under 5 repeatables by the time crisis arrives with 2250 endgame date (so it arrives around 2310-2320ish). Take that to 2400+ when Lathland had his super Citadels, and your fleet power should easily break into the 10-20m range or higher.
Also, in optimized play for 2250 endgame, you don't have the luxury of neat little choke points since you're almost always beelining planets for the population and often have to end wars early due to another war on the other side of your empire. And after you snowball, no AI will want to declare war on you, with or without Citadel choke points.
And finally, starbases aren't actually good for getting fleet capacity lategame; you build Armories on specialized planets since your starbase cap of ~20 won't be enough to get the 2000+ capacity required to hit the 1.5m+ fleet power goal by the early crisis date. My main use for starbases in these runs is for fleet capacity before I start building up my Armory planets as well as getting some storage to bank resources.
I tend to put citadels at chokes, but I put the crew quarters on them to station defensive fleets there. Also, mid-game is a good time to spam starholds above all planets for the Black Sites and Hyperlane Registrars, really helps with getting your fleets around.
That's why i like the NSC2 mod, station are bigger and there is even more level
NSC changed things up with Starbases turning them into literal fortresses that given Fallen Empires grief if decked out properly including Fortress Defence Platforms especially if you go Layered Defence
i like em cus im too lazy to move meh fleets
One big station with only the hangars and one with only the trade hubs + gateway network. To protect and collect all the trade value. Spread shipyards on several, but far away from borders. Combine shipyards with anchorages to squeeze out all the fleet capacity that you can squeeze out at any given time. Do not cluster shipyards+anchorages stations, spread them around and connect with gateways as well. Make sure that it is hard to cripple your empire by the enemy by just taking one or two key stations. Spread your specialized colonies as well for the same reason. Research regenerative hull tissue early on if you can, all your stations will have it the same way they get FTL inhibitors. Combine defensive stations in the early game and against any crisis with systems that have environmental hazards that are not just coming from a system being in a nebula. Do not use Citadels for anchorages, save those alloys for reinforcing fleets and/or retrofitting them to hard counter the enemy fleets. That is my philosophy at least.
I use stations like you describe for baiting enemies onto them and then have my fleet attack, but I do this for longer than you do. It's not like it's hard to set up a choke point where a fallen empire has to come through to attack me, and adding a bunch of hitpoints alone to the battle is helpful.
However, for real defense, if I feel I can't hold my borders, I just build habitats and make it a fortress. Fully decked out, it holds.
One of my favourite games I played was one where I role played xenophobic isolation but I spawned next to marauders so in true role play style I took all the accession perks for starbases and defence platforms. By the time I stopped playing deep into the late game they had an on paper strength of ~65k fleet power and when they actually engaged anything it was about 80k after combat buffs. This was in pretty much every one of my ~20 systems.
I always build them in my capitol system, shipyard systems, and any system with a megastructure in it. Also, place them at choke points on the borders and connect ALL of them through gates. In my capitol system is always a rapid reaction fleet that can respond to any of those chokepoints or other important system. That fleet IS NOT for invading other empires or anything else you would use a fleet for, it is the fleet that will defend my empire if some bad shit goes down while my other fleets are away. The citadels might not completely stop an invasion in its tracks but it will slow it down until my rapid reaction fleet jumps in to end the threat and can support the fleet in driving the filthy invaders out of my empire before they do to much damage.
I think there's a mod that unlocks more upgrades for starbases. Could you cover that mod?
he should really cover nsc, and all the kew types of ships it adds, like the exploration cruisers, the strike cruisers, the PD destroyers and so on.
generally some vid on mod "balznce" would help
I tend to use them as forward operating shipyards. The idea to fix your ships on the front line instead of jumping back to home base means i save time on the travel and repair
really glad any time I find some recent Stellaris strategy content, because it often seems all the older stuff is already outdated.
I usually build a citadel on my home planet and max it out w/ shipyards. Once the home system is deep inside friendly space. I'll do that again as far flung planets become well inside friendly space.
the stations in my current game are at almost 100k Power I think they are serving their role just fine, They are a Investment though and a costly one if your not flush with resources But at every entrance to my core systems there will always be a Battle station.
Y'know speaking of stations, perhaps in future the Enigmatic Fortress could be made into one? Similarly to how the Automated Dreadnought or Prethoryn Queen can be added to your fleet? Been awhile since I did the Fortress, but I recall it unlocks a whole bunch of tech. Alternatively maybe we could get a special starbase event chain, from a precursor civilization? With old or abandoned stations that you can repair and use to claim a system, without using influence?
Having a Defensive line made up of star bases ensure that any enemy fleet that tries to get through has to take that station that can chew their forces up. Which if you are strategic about your fleet positioning can cause a huge mess for any opposing force if you catch them in a pincer. I call it Hammer and Anvil.
I agree, the comms jammer is fantastic, especially in a black hole system where the additive debuffs allow you to draw in and crush the enemy fleet in a way they'll never recover.
Stations are also how you gather trade value and how you boost your fleet strength, so you always need to build to your maxim at least up to fortress level for that reason alone. I always build citadels at key border choke points, if only for the fleet boosts. What isn't mentioned is that late game, if you've focused on keeping sprawl in check or have just got deep on research, the repeatable techs for weapons and station firepower/defense values can see your defensive citadels become very powerful.
Tend not put more than 1 ion cannon on tho, given firing rate is so poor. Technically but late game you are going to have a sentry array so outside of the crisis, you should know where your enemies are and be able to deploy fleets accordingly - stations are by then mostly for adding fleet strength, ship building/repair, trade gathering/protection and occasionally special module use like boosting global mineral storage etc. But as I say. the deeper you dive into repeatable techs, the stronger the citadels become (as indeed is the case with your fleets). Can get a bit crazy.
I have noticed that the AI basically B-lines straight to wormholes and gateways. I had the khan send 5 fleets into my system with a full citadel and 4 ion cannons + my doomstack fleet, mopped the khan up before I realized it was over
seems to happen anytime I have a wormhole or gateway though, the Ai seems to think its quicker to path to there instead of anywhere else
if you disassemble a module on a station in a fight, it resets its full health. not advisable in multiplayer pvp (is seen as exploit, unfixed since forever), but it might make your heavy station defend more in single player - you can have up to 6 resets that way, regaining shield and armor value (minus what the module gave). it does not work on captured stations. it might also work with downgrading.
if you build defense platforms with almost nothing on them on outposts, they will also suppress piracy for very little upkeep.
I am a turtler so I tend to utilize my starbases a lot. They have helped me decimate everything that enters my space. Combine your choke points with fortress habitats or worlds and the AI is pretty much stuck in said choke point even if they take out the starbase if you have that one tech that keeps them from jumping. You can just slam your forces into them constantly while they bomb your fortress worlds.
Stations on pulsars are great. They still have half their defensive slots to shields, wich do nothing at all! They'll also gladly pick whatever weapon they feel like regardless of that "no one has shield" situation too.
At least you can kit your defense platforms to realise "oh yeah, shields don't function here"
I usually slap citadels on wormholes, gateways, and lgates. Then i slat the supercomputer and then spam a fuckload of ion cannons and top it off with base defense platforms.
So basically, star bases go from front line defensive structures to cut off choke points, into a strong support that buffs you and your allies while debuffing your enemies. I always keep star bases at my choke points fully upgraded for that very reason, just in the later game I make sure to keep a fleet or 2 hanging around so it doesn't immediately fall into enemy hands and I can get some reinforcements in. Star bases are severely underrated in the late game, they can truely turn the tide of a close war. They are perfect for setting elaborate traps, and their buffs, debuffs, and ship building capacity make them perfect as a staging ground in a defensive war. Aggressive empires may have limited uses for them, but for a pacifist empire they can be the difference between winning the war, and complete and utter annihilation. For the man who speaks with might, they are useless. For the man who seeks to out think his opponent, they are powerful. For the man who does both, they are the glue that holds his empire together.
Stations are great late game....
I'd never be able to super my huge fleets without all that naval capacity they give. I often want more stations to support larger fleets. :)
Obviously, the solution is to use mods to buff your Stations.
Aspec: don't build station late game for defensive purposes
Modders: laughs in mods
What about trade hubs and trading companies?
Just in case you are not aware: if you click on a Starbase, then on the Starbase tab at the bottom of the window and press K, you can see all its weapons and modules.
Just watched a Lathland stellaris episode where he went and got his Citadels to nearly 1 million fleet power each. Completely stomped the max difficulty end game crisis whenever they tried to enter his systems.
Ye, I saw it too, that was just crazy.
Wait, so if I put a gun battery and a missile battery on my station then one is overriding the other? I've been wasting slots this whole time?
I -think- the override only applies to the basic missiles that outposts come with when built not the batteries you actually build
300,000 fleet came into my border, destroyed by 200,000 citadel. I pretty much consider my built-up citadels to be closed borders. I've had them damaged when I tried becoming the crisis mid-game when they were only 40k.
I tend to tech up to citadels so fast that they generally are 20-30k ahead of most ai enemy fleets by the time they're built. And they are easier to sustain that big enough fleets.
Builds a citadel and deck it out with only the huge ion cannons, have a fleet of mass corvets, let enemy fleet fight the corvets while the citadel picks off all their big ships.
So here's my question. With all the additive bonuses of repeating techs, what is the strongest defense bastion build? Personally I'm a fan of missiles, but I can see the merit of a hangar bay to blot out the sun too. I'm just not sure which is the most efficient in tying down and exterminating all those filthy xenos.
My mod, RIG, makes building these far more logical. As the bonuses you gain from being plantoids or reptiles helps you decide what is better.
the very next video in the que of youtube recommendations: "Stellaris | Tech RUSHING - 800k+ Citadels! & Making Scourge ZOO! Full Playthrough!!"
A choke point with a suitably militarized station and a defence fleet is better than one with just the fleet.
Play a science focused tall materialist with mechanist/technocracy. Lathland did this, he picked the relevant defence platform perks and managed to get his citadels up to 400K with 20+ repeatable before 2400, enough even to discourage the Prethoryn! So long as you don’t start next to a Purifier or Swarm, it’s totally viable to go full fortress turtle. Galactic geography permitting, I should also mention Pulsar + Plasma / armour combo which can create impenetrable choke points even in the early-mid game with relatively little effort, excepting that the main station still auto equips shields and anti shield weaponry for some dum reason... :-/
Is it worth mixing defense modules? I like to put two gun, two missile, and two hangers on defense stations.
Me building citadels to hold my two chokepoints every game being completely defended from outside threats!