@theNIKOLAOSm I'm glad to hear that you like Byzantine Chant! Modern Byzantine is very in touch with the older forms, and is only separated by organic developments and simplifications during its usage. Some older manuscripts are decoded (Alexander Lingas and Cappella Romana, and the Romeiko Ensemble being two examples), although some have been interpreted by chanters living around the time of simplification. When moving to other languages, it is often necessary to recompose melody lines.
I only know how to read the do re mi western notes etc. This is a whole new genre of music and I just want to get deep into it and educate myself oh my God I'm so motivated right now thank you for the free lesson Nicholas you are a great teacher! I also think it's a shame that us, eastern people (I'm greek) have no idea of eastern music, even though we hear it at the church, in all those hymns. I think it is very interesting :)
Imagine if Byzantium didnt fall and turkey didnt exist , if this what the byzantines were capable of in the middle ages , imagine just how great their repertoire of classical music would be, Byzantines were truly ahead of their time
Hi Nicholas, Our mutual friend Matthew (living in AL) sent me a link to this and I've really enjoyed watching it. You've made it surprisingly easy to understand. I hope to see more. Keep it up! -Chris
I downloaded (from somewhere) material on its musical notation. I have always wanted to sing for God and His saints. Indeed, a good tutorial. Gratias maximas!
Today is my first day of learning Byzantine Chanting, and your video is very helpful in doing my homework and learning the ABC of it ! I just had my fascinating first lesson at the Annunciation Greek Orthodox Church in Lancaster, PA, USA, and am very eager to learn singing this beautiful Sacred Music. Looking forward to you other lessons and to my improvements. GOD BLESS !🕊❤️
Thank you Nicholas, this has been my first lesson in years of Byzantine Chant, since the then Deacon Cosme Andrade (now Archmandrite) taught me my first lessons in St George's Antiochian Orthodox Cathedral in Mexico City. Now, as an Anglican priest since 18 years ago, I lovely remember my Orthodox heritage.
Love it Nichola mou ( vocative case I know you're a man) very clear and very good :) I am a royal Academy Graduate western musician whose 'motherland is Cyprus, therefore this is part of our culture, as the 2 main religions on the island are Orthodox and Islam. This style of singing went into the Laiki folk music of the near east, including the former ottoman Empire, Cyprus Greece, and what is now Turkey
Awesome introduction! It clarified some principles, as I'm learning chanting without a chanter (no one really knows chanting in our parish). I didn't know how you would chant a petastes and kentematon.
@theNIKOLAOSm So, it can't be known for certain whether St. John of Damascus would have sung like us today, but there are many close similarities that can be seen through oral tradition and the written traditions. I imagine, though, that scale intervals could vary as well as lengths of hymns and preferred interpretations when reading into the melody. Nevertheless, it is a long unbroken tradition of notated music!
I very much doubt he would have sung Byzantine style. Although Arabs mostly use Byzantine melodies today, they have their own musical tradition which is sadly seldom used. As far as I know these are taught in seminaries throughout the ME. I had the privilege to hear some of them. May sound out of tune to those not used to quarter tones or even smaller intervals.
This notation is is very simulare to Braille music. In braille music they use symbles to indicate intervals when played together. Yoi have to know the intetvals to read the music.
Interesting! I’ve never looked into Braille western notation, although I did a little reading on how the Braille system was designed for Byzantine notation. Papa Ephraim of St. Anthony’s Monastery had some resources online.
I'm 3 minutes in and I'm loving this video... It's amazing what one can find if one knows for what one is looking... I find it intriguing that the Greek solfeggio ("νη"-feggio?) has a uncanny resemblance to Hindustani solfeggio... But the Indian thing is more or less one step off from the Greek; India has "Sa Re Ga Ma Pa Dha Ni (Sa), the tone/syllable "ni/νη" being a half or whole step lower than the tonic "Sa"... I hope there is a good explanation of the Octoechos in store for us! 💗
My knowledge of western music theory is restricted to what I remember from high school band, but I was able to understand much of this a majority of the time. Will check out your website!
I´ve got a little question about that numeral system you were using trying to explain the distances between the notes at ~5:00. Why are you using the number 72? I don´t really get that. It´d be great, if you (or anyone else) could explain this to me some time.
@@vasiliskaranos605 oh okay thank you! btw your videos really helped me with my academic paper last year. You explained everything so understandable and simple! I got a really high score and i really owe it to you :) so thanks
Sorry to hear that! These are microtonal intervals, so there’s really no standard way to write it in Western music notation. Some have tried to use a flat symbol with a line through part of it to symbolize a third of a flat, but it can become a bit cumbersome. You essentially have a C major scale but E and B are flattened by 1/3 of a flat. The actual placement of E and B changes, though, based on the tone and the direction of the music (sometimes B is fully flattened). When beginning, I would just treat it like a major scale; it’s not as essential as learning to read the notation itself.
Since the interval of ZW-NH is 8, why are you singing it without a flat on the way up and singing it differently with a flat on the way down? The interval is 8. It does not change because if you change it then you will not have a complete scale according to the music theory which states that the intervals must add up to 72. By adding a flat you are not following what the theory says. ZW-NH is 8 both when ascending and when descending. Adding a flat will change the interval from 8 to 12 and will also subsequently change the interval of ZW-KE from 10 to 6. By doing that you are also going against a rule in the theory that states that both tetrachords MUST match. So by putting a flat on ZW the upper tetrachord (Di-Ke-Zw-Ni) will no longer match with the bottom tetrachord (Ni-Pa-Boy-Ga) because the upper tetrachord intervals have been altered and are now different from the bottom tetrachord intervals. So according to what your doing to ZW (adding a flat), you would have to also add a flat on BOY. In short the intervals do not change otherwise if they do change, then it is no longer the same scale. The scale is the scale because of the intervals. It is not one scale going up and a different scale going down.
Hi Mark! Thanks for your astute observation. There is a deeper level of theory beyond just the scales which is operating here called the law of attraction between notes, which comes from the oral tradition. (And, to be clear, in most musical traditions, the theory is based on the oral practice, and not the other way around.) Zo gets "pulled" down towards Ke, and ultimately Dhi, when we are operating around Dhi. When we ascend to upper Ni', Zo is attracted to Ni', and is therefore natural, with a Zo-Ni' interval of 8. On the way down, or when we just touch Zo from below, it is flattened, making Ke-Zo' 6, as you noted. If we hover around Zo', it actually becomes the dominant note, and then Ke gets attracted to Zo and is sharpened. And, as you noted, Vou actually does get flattened, especially in modes based on Pa (like Mode 1 and Plagal 1); it is not normally a full flat, but it does get pulled down. So, based upon which tetrachord we are operating in and what are the dominant notes in that tetrachord, things can actually shift around a lot. There is a lot of flexibility, in the midst of a "rigid" structure. If you listen to most any CD from a country that uses Byzantine Chant predominantly, you'll hear these attractions (whether in a choir or a soloist). Choirs from the US, however, don't always do this correctly.
Nicholas Jones Hello Nicholas. I'm still on my second year in byzantine music, so surely I don't know as much as you do, but I think that Zo is "pulled" by Ke because we are in echos πλ Δ. By definition in this echos, when Zo is katerhomenos it's pulled by Ke. I'm really sorry for using the Greek names, but I really can't find the English equivalents :/
I'm referring to the oral tradition, and the use of attraction of notes, which is a whole other layer of theory from the basic theory of the diatonic scale. I know minimal Greek, so I can't give you a specific Greek word for it, but if I find something, I'll let you know.
Thanks Demetrios! It is an interesting question as to which note pulls down Zo. And, it seems like quite a theoretical discussion. :o) I would be inclined to still say that it is Dhi that pulls down Zo, since Dhi is a dominant note in this scale, not Ke (and that is what I was taught, as far as I recall). So, Dhi has the pull. It is pulled towards Ke, but Ke is not specifically important, especially because the upper tetrachord in mode Pl. 4 is from Dhi. If we were talking about mode Pl. 1, then I'd agree more readily, because that's how the mode works; although it is especially flattened when the mode transitions from Ke to Dhi, and you can really feel the pull (although an enharmonic ajem symbol is then often written, emphasizing that fact). I don't know what "katerhomenos" means, outside of what google translate gave, indicating "descending"; I assume it just means flattened or pulled down?
Hi George! Let me know if you have any questions that I could answer more specifically. I'd be glad to help as I can. (The tutorials can be a bit dense with material).
I don't agree on your rules of using oligon or petasti. In this case, I follow the orthography of psaltic writing. And I didn't hear any psaltis to sing the petasti like that.
Nicholas Jones I could learn from a Romanian who spoke in English what I didn't learn from Romanians in Romanian. It's a bit ironical. I liked the fact that you went through the basics and now I have a better understanding overall. Thank you for your work!
Nicholas J. Jones Really? The people of the Balkans really do look very similar after all(taking into account your Romanian side)... :/ Either way, great work on the tutorial. It was very insightful. :)
+Nuagesetcoucherde My friend, I won't be the one to force on someone how to call himself (be it Greek, Turk, Serbian, Yugoslavian, Skopian or whatever). It's up to everybody to choose that for himself That's one thing. But the historical truth and accuracy is a different matter altogether. Just because someone calls himself one name, it doesn't mean that is true and legit.
12 years later and your lesson was very helpful. Thank you!
Thank you for this! I attend a small Greek Orthodox church in California, and am a convert and aspiring cantor. This is very helpful!
Thank you TH-cam, for preserving these rare gems. I can't find this anywhere else.
This is amazing, you're such a great teacher! Thank you so much!!!!
I have been looking for this for years! Thank you!
@theNIKOLAOSm I'm glad to hear that you like Byzantine Chant! Modern Byzantine is very in touch with the older forms, and is only separated by organic developments and simplifications during its usage. Some older manuscripts are decoded (Alexander Lingas and Cappella Romana, and the Romeiko Ensemble being two examples), although some have been interpreted by chanters living around the time of simplification. When moving to other languages, it is often necessary to recompose melody lines.
More tutorial 🙏🙏🙏🥺🥺🥺🙏🙏🙏
OK, this is a treasure.
Can't wait to continue the series! THANK YOU!
I only know how to read the do re mi western notes etc. This is a whole new genre of music and I just want to get deep into it and educate myself oh my God I'm so motivated right now thank you for the free lesson Nicholas you are a great teacher! I also think it's a shame that us, eastern people (I'm greek) have no idea of eastern music, even though we hear it at the church, in all those hymns. I think it is very interesting :)
Wonderful teaching Nicholas. God bless you. It is very important as well. Beautiful voice.
Thank you so much, Nicholas.
Great first tutorial introduction to Byzantine Chant.
Imagine if Byzantium didnt fall and turkey didnt exist , if this what the byzantines were capable of in the middle ages , imagine just how great their repertoire of classical music would be, Byzantines were truly ahead of their time
Hi Nicholas,
Our mutual friend Matthew (living in AL) sent me a link to this and I've really enjoyed watching it. You've made it surprisingly easy to understand. I hope to see more. Keep it up!
-Chris
I downloaded (from somewhere) material on its musical notation. I have always wanted to sing for God and His saints. Indeed, a good tutorial. Gratias maximas!
Today is my first day of learning Byzantine Chanting, and your video is very helpful in doing my homework and learning the ABC of it !
I just had my fascinating first lesson at the Annunciation Greek Orthodox Church in Lancaster, PA, USA, and am very eager to learn singing this beautiful Sacred Music. Looking forward to you other lessons and to my improvements. GOD BLESS !🕊❤️
Thank you Nicholas, this has been my first lesson in years of Byzantine Chant, since the then Deacon Cosme Andrade (now Archmandrite) taught me my first lessons in St George's Antiochian Orthodox Cathedral in Mexico City.
Now, as an Anglican priest since 18 years ago, I lovely remember my Orthodox heritage.
I don’t know when I’ll use this… but I’m glad you made this video and I’m learning anyways! 😁
congrats! big work & courage to present this peculiar kind of spiritual music in a material world.
Love it Nichola mou ( vocative case I know you're a man) very clear and very good :) I am a royal Academy Graduate western musician whose 'motherland is Cyprus, therefore this is part of our culture, as the 2 main religions on the island are Orthodox and Islam. This style of singing went into the Laiki folk music of the near east, including the former ottoman Empire, Cyprus Greece, and what is now Turkey
Catholic here, loving this.
Same. Our orthodox bretheren deserve all the respect
Massa' Tobias There's also Eastern Catholics who use this music too
@@necksquad3222are you eastern?
Thank you so much !
AFHARISTO !🕊❤️🙏🏻😇
Awesome introduction! It clarified some principles, as I'm learning chanting without a chanter (no one really knows chanting in our parish). I didn't know how you would chant a petastes and kentematon.
Thank you so much, this is really helpful!
Isan represents of the unfaded light of God, amazing!!
Watching in 2018. Hi from Brazil!
Silvio Martins E eu achando que só eu estava procurando isso rsrs
Érick Augusto Gomes E você ainda achou meu comentário kkkkk
Silvio Martins
Pois é rsrs
Você é Ortodoxo ou Católico Oriental?
Érick Augusto Gomes Hahaha sou evangélico batista reformado, mas como sou músico, essas barreiras caem, rs.
Silvio Martins Ah sim, interessante. Eu sou católico, porém, tenho certa aproximadade com o rito bizantino.
@theNIKOLAOSm So, it can't be known for certain whether St. John of Damascus would have sung like us today, but there are many close similarities that can be seen through oral tradition and the written traditions. I imagine, though, that scale intervals could vary as well as lengths of hymns and preferred interpretations when reading into the melody. Nevertheless, it is a long unbroken tradition of notated music!
I very much doubt he would have sung Byzantine style. Although Arabs mostly use Byzantine melodies today, they have their own musical tradition which is sadly seldom used. As far as I know these are taught in seminaries throughout the ME. I had the privilege to hear some of them. May sound out of tune to those not used to quarter tones or even smaller intervals.
Excellent!
The internet wants more, more, more! Do it! -Ivan
Thank you for tutorial
If you whant to hear byzantine music from Romania,start with Anton Pann,his songs are on youtube.
Well done!. Congratulations!
This notation is is very simulare to Braille music. In braille music they use symbles to indicate intervals when played together. Yoi have to know the intetvals to read the music.
Interesting! I’ve never looked into Braille western notation, although I did a little reading on how the Braille system was designed for Byzantine notation. Papa Ephraim of St. Anthony’s Monastery had some resources online.
Thanks for this tutorial!
Thank you! This is so helpful!
I'm 3 minutes in and I'm loving this video... It's amazing what one can find if one knows for what one is looking... I find it intriguing that the Greek solfeggio ("νη"-feggio?) has a uncanny resemblance to Hindustani solfeggio... But the Indian thing is more or less one step off from the Greek; India has "Sa Re Ga Ma Pa Dha Ni (Sa), the tone/syllable "ni/νη" being a half or whole step lower than the tonic "Sa"... I hope there is a good explanation of the Octoechos in store for us! 💗
My knowledge of western music theory is restricted to what I remember from high school band, but I was able to understand much of this a majority of the time. Will check out your website!
well done!
Nice lesson
Thank you!
Congratulations to the teacher from a Greek 👍👌
You should check Divna Ljubojevic.
I´ve got a little question about that numeral system you were using trying to explain the distances between the notes at ~5:00.
Why are you using the number 72? I don´t really get that.
It´d be great, if you (or anyone else) could explain this to me some time.
That’s the number they use in Byzantine music theory. It’s not literally 72 in practice, but it’s used as a theoretical depiction.
@@vasiliskaranos605 oh okay thank you!
btw your videos really helped me with my academic paper last year. You explained everything so understandable and simple! I got a really high score and i really owe it to you :) so thanks
@@jansox7940 I didn’t make the video lol…
I have no interest in byzantine chant, but found this video really interesting. Thanks!
🥺🥺🥺🥺🙏🙏🙏🙏
Thank you
9:06
You lost me at 12 10 8 etc numbers. Is there a way to write it in modern music notation?
Sorry to hear that! These are microtonal intervals, so there’s really no standard way to write it in Western music notation. Some have tried to use a flat symbol with a line through part of it to symbolize a third of a flat, but it can become a bit cumbersome. You essentially have a C major scale but E and B are flattened by 1/3 of a flat. The actual placement of E and B changes, though, based on the tone and the direction of the music (sometimes B is fully flattened). When beginning, I would just treat it like a major scale; it’s not as essential as learning to read the notation itself.
I don't know any thing about how to read music or music and I kinda feel lost with this video!😰🙄
Whenever I hear it chanted in English they tend to just use a C Maj scale and it absolutely ruins the chants
Since the interval of ZW-NH is 8, why are you singing it without a flat on the way up and singing it differently with a flat on the way down? The interval is 8. It does not change because if you change it then you will not have a complete scale according to the music theory which states that the intervals must add up to 72. By adding a flat you are not following what the theory says. ZW-NH is 8 both when ascending and when descending. Adding a flat will change the interval from 8 to 12 and will also subsequently change the interval of ZW-KE from 10 to 6. By doing that you are also going against a rule in the theory that states that both tetrachords MUST match. So by putting a flat on ZW the upper tetrachord (Di-Ke-Zw-Ni) will no longer match with the bottom tetrachord (Ni-Pa-Boy-Ga) because the upper tetrachord intervals have been altered and are now different from the bottom tetrachord intervals. So according to what your doing to ZW (adding a flat), you would have to also add a flat on BOY. In short the intervals do not change otherwise if they do change, then it is no longer the same scale. The scale is the scale because of the intervals. It is not one scale going up and a different scale going down.
Hi Mark!
Thanks for your astute observation. There is a deeper level of theory beyond just the scales which is operating here called the law of attraction between notes, which comes from the oral tradition. (And, to be clear, in most musical traditions, the theory is based on the oral practice, and not the other way around.) Zo gets "pulled" down towards Ke, and ultimately Dhi, when we are operating around Dhi. When we ascend to upper Ni', Zo is attracted to Ni', and is therefore natural, with a Zo-Ni' interval of 8. On the way down, or when we just touch Zo from below, it is flattened, making Ke-Zo' 6, as you noted. If we hover around Zo', it actually becomes the dominant note, and then Ke gets attracted to Zo and is sharpened. And, as you noted, Vou actually does get flattened, especially in modes based on Pa (like Mode 1 and Plagal 1); it is not normally a full flat, but it does get pulled down. So, based upon which tetrachord we are operating in and what are the dominant notes in that tetrachord, things can actually shift around a lot. There is a lot of flexibility, in the midst of a "rigid" structure. If you listen to most any CD from a country that uses Byzantine Chant predominantly, you'll hear these attractions (whether in a choir or a soloist). Choirs from the US, however, don't always do this correctly.
Nicholas Jones which particular theory are you referring to concerning the attractions?
Nicholas Jones Hello Nicholas. I'm still on my second year in byzantine music, so surely I don't know as much as you do, but I think that Zo is "pulled" by Ke because we are in echos πλ Δ. By definition in this echos, when Zo is katerhomenos it's pulled by Ke.
I'm really sorry for using the Greek names, but I really can't find the English equivalents :/
I'm referring to the oral tradition, and the use of attraction of notes, which is a whole other layer of theory from the basic theory of the diatonic scale. I know minimal Greek, so I can't give you a specific Greek word for it, but if I find something, I'll let you know.
Thanks Demetrios! It is an interesting question as to which note pulls down Zo. And, it seems like quite a theoretical discussion. :o) I would be inclined to still say that it is Dhi that pulls down Zo, since Dhi is a dominant note in this scale, not Ke (and that is what I was taught, as far as I recall). So, Dhi has the pull. It is pulled towards Ke, but Ke is not specifically important, especially because the upper tetrachord in mode Pl. 4 is from Dhi. If we were talking about mode Pl. 1, then I'd agree more readily, because that's how the mode works; although it is especially flattened when the mode transitions from Ke to Dhi, and you can really feel the pull (although an enharmonic ajem symbol is then often written, emphasizing that fact). I don't know what "katerhomenos" means, outside of what google translate gave, indicating "descending"; I assume it just means flattened or pulled down?
Ααααα δεν ήξερα ότι ήρθε η μέρα της αποκάλυψης!!
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Christos Anesti
I'm so confused. I was really hoping could learn this...
Try studying the basics of music by going through Stewart MacPherson's "the rudiments of music"
Hi George! Let me know if you have any questions that I could answer more specifically. I'd be glad to help as I can. (The tutorials can be a bit dense with material).
I don't agree on your rules of using oligon or petasti. In this case, I follow the orthography of psaltic writing. And I didn't hear any psaltis to sing the petasti like that.
Catholic who attends Divine Liturgy at least once a month...
It's s too far away. ☹
Do you speak Romanian?
I only know a few Liturgical phrases, and a few common words, sadly.
Nicholas Jones I could learn from a Romanian who spoke in English what I didn't learn from Romanians in Romanian. It's a bit ironical. I liked the fact that you went through the basics and now I have a better understanding overall. Thank you for your work!
You look Greek and, considering you make Byzantine chant tutorials, you probably are. But I wanna make sure anyway. Are you?
Nope, I'm not Greek. I'm Romanian, Russian, and Welsh (hence the last name of "Jones").
Nicholas J. Jones Really? The people of the Balkans really do look very similar after all(taking into account your Romanian side)... :/
Either way, great work on the tutorial. It was very insightful. :)
+Nuagesetcoucherde You mean Romanian Russian and Greek then...
***** :s
+Nuagesetcoucherde My friend, I won't be the one to force on someone how to call himself (be it Greek, Turk, Serbian, Yugoslavian, Skopian or whatever). It's up to everybody to choose that for himself That's one thing. But the historical truth and accuracy is a different matter altogether. Just because someone calls himself one name, it doesn't mean that is true and legit.
Nope, you’re still using words I’ve never heard of before.
I see you have St. Nicholas up there looking straight s of the same heart and mind 1