This video was originally titled - What do I HATE about the Necron? lol which seemed too ott. Let me know what gets under your skin on a permanent basis when it comes to the lore... ALSO - - please help me appease our lord ALGO, by Liking the vid if you enjoy
Do you have any favorite factions? You can have more than one. Example, when I want a more human play through I collect models for my guardsmen army and when I want to catter to my urge for brutish thuggish inhuman violence I ADDZ SOME ORKZ TO ME WAAAAAGH! I love tyranids too.
How trazyn and orakin are portrayed in the infinite and the divine was perfect to me. An all powerful race that squabbles like children is exactly what I needed in the 40k universe. Such as how trazyn pulls the thing from his museum to attack orakin and bring about the big problem at the end they needed to solve, genius. As for the necron end game. I always see it as they are hunting for a way to return to their mortal forms so they can enjoy the pleasures of the flesh while also finding a way to avoid death once the lesser races are subjugated. They wanted immortality and power, but it was a monkey's paw deal that they are now trying to reverse.
I think your gripe here is what makes Necrons so interesting for me. A small argument between Trazyn and Orikan displayed it well; the Necron don't truly know if they can transfer back, and they haven't really thought about it very much. They know that they hate having no souls, and that they fear the future with their inability to reproduce, but they don't want to think about what happens when they return to the flesh. If they think about it, they might end up realising that they don't really want it after all, and that the purgatory they live in is the best they'll get. I do have a sneaking suspicion that part of the end goal of some Necron might be to kill two birds with one stone: wipe out the Eldar, but steal their ageless bodies in doing it.
oh its interesting all right, but I just want to hear a little more about it than an introductory sentence, as then at least it would feel like ok THIS is what theyre working towards
@@inthefade well, most of them where not realy "aware" during those millions of years. They just kinda "skip intro" in stasis. And the few that maybe have ben awake and aware and smart enough to conjure up such thoughts might have other things going on in their twisted minds, like creating the most realistic full-scale diorama of certain events that took place every decade or so.
@@Luetin09seems pretty obvious. The eldar are an enemy with basically infinite lives and an incredible “oneness” with the universe, to the point that their conscious and unconscious thought can create literal gods. The necrontyr were weak, short lived, and did not really have any form of psychic power or connection. They had to co opt the ctan and became their servants and became cold, unfeeling, unable to think machines with many losing their intelligence and all losing their “soul.” The eldar got reincarnated when they died (until slaanesh) and while living they have a psychic power that connects them to every other member of their race. The eldar have, on a basic level, everything the necron ever wanted or could want. They wouldn’t even have to fear slaanesh because they have proven they have technology that negates psyker influence or cuts it off to create “independent spaces” that could allow them to preserve their souls from being absorbed and instead force the reincarnation to occur on their terms. Granted psyker power is mental on a technical level, but if the necron steal living flesh, I imagine the genes to develop it would pass on to the next generation. It’s killing more than a few birds with one stone for the necrons. They gain flesh bodies and a new way to independently bio transfer because they’d probably be able to reincarnate freely, the eldar get killed, and they now have access to a genetic power they could not previously use in a form that benefits greatly from collective will, like say a civilization set on conquering the galaxy and eliminating a set of all powerful star eating “gods”
What if the Necron, having tasted immortality and the horror of it's reality, simply desire death. Death on their own terms, and to bring everyone else with them. Such is their spite for having been played such a cruel hand. Just a thought. I absolutely love your speculations!
Yeah that’d actually be fitting, especially in 40k context, discovering that the immortality they desired is more curse than blessing and wanting out of it but being unable to
I think the final lesson of the story of the Necrons is "be careful what you wish for." They were so obsessed with prolonging their short, fragile lives they (unsurprisingly) didn't stop to think of the consequences, and that made them perfect targets for the C'tan.
The Necrons don't have one unified goal as it stands and giving them all the goal of "let's kill ourselves and everyone else" clashes heavily with established Necron characters
Blessing us with these long videos so close together. Mechanicus and the Necrons are my favorite lore(aside from Emperor content of course). This stuff is gold and I hope you’re richly rewarded for such excellent content
Bonus points for "middle, middle, middle" to get through the 60-some million years between The Silent King's departure and return. 'Infinite and the Divine' is so far one of my favorite 40k books (though to be fair, I've mostly been working through the Heresy so far), and for soulless living metal creatures, those two are pretty damn funny at times.
You should include books for deeper understanding in most videos honestly. I know occasionally you’ll mention the book that was the source of some quote or lore, but often the source material behind videos is rarely easy to find. I understand this is usually because the videos compile details as small as a single sentence from 20 different books, but the bulk material of most videos does have a single book or series at its core, and mentioning those specifically at the start would be a cool addition!
In grand strategy video games theres a playstyle called Playing Tall. Basically ignoring expansion and focusing on the land you already own. I feel like the Necron might fit that mold.
Oh btw, that’s the best analogy I’ve ever heard about story or setting argument. It is a story now because GW decided to make something besides circular campaign novels to sell models, but it’s also very much a setting because it’s not focused solely on mankind. The multiple points of view makes it more of a setting than storyline. Broadly speaking it’s a collections of stories from multiple races in the setting of 30k-40k plus.
It would be cool if the Necron were trying to fully understand Bio-transference in order to transfer the minds of the C’tan into mortal bodies and fully destroy them as a final revenge. Great vid as always :D
we can make reverse bio transference work, tie it up as a vague end goal and make the end goal something more personally interesting by making the entire civilization in the image of a single character. how? run with what themes we have - undeath - and bio transference can run along the theme of ghosts/specters. maybe the necron will discover how to transfer their minds into other living creatures, possessing them, having some fun, then moving onto the next body. this turns the end goal into a short term drama, freeing up the silent king to make us question how we would not just rule, but sculpt a culture/civilization if we had that power
Absolutely love the video on the Necrons and totally agree with the gripe of their actual endgame. For me I try to justify the idea of undoing biotransferrence with 2 immediate goals. 1: Undo the damage to protocol pathways that endless time as machines seems to be causing. 2: using the current species in existence, unlock immortality in a mortal shell the 1st issue explains the Necrons immediate need to return to a more mortal form. The flayer virus, destroyer virus, and general non response to awakening protocols are becoming more and more widespread throughout the Necron dynasties and threatens to wipe the Necons from the galaxy faster(in their eyes) than any exterior threat. The second issue is more of a long term goal after solving the short term issues (again in their eyes) of defeating the warp, the tyrannids, and re-conquering the galaxy for themselves. The Necrons are just so much fun to follow lore wise because they really are just the angry grandfather complaining about the kids on their lawn. the problems they have stretch multiple millennia so it isn't a particular surprise that they aren't truly considering the dangers of returning to a mortal form could truly present. Because the lore has recently been retconned, we feel like ending biotransferrence is a recent highly important goal, when in reality, it's more of an afterthought to the nobles of the Dynasties. Realistically there's nothing of their general populace to save. If Szeras emerged tomorrow (figuritively) with a way to reinforce the decaying protocols and end the derangements afflicting the Necrons, the conversation concerning returning to mortal shells would instantly disappear. I mean the Necrons are more concerned with 60 million year old vendettas between dynasties than they are any current threat: pre Szarekh returning with his warnings concerning the Tyrannids. Even the looming threat of the warp in many cases is less a concern than who pissed a certain lord off 60 million years ago. Priorities amirite!
I like how in The Infinite and the Devine, Orikan is interested in the rest of his species desire to reverse biotransference and would rather ascend to the energy form(until the end of the book that is).
While I may not be most versed in WH40k lore, there is some stuff that came to mind regarding things you mentioned in the video such as Zeras inability to reverse bio-transference even though he worked on it himself. However... explaining the countless thoughts running through my mind is pain in the ass so I'll try my best to explain a bit different perspective on the matter. Silent King: The entire self exile to the sudden return with new focus could be rather simple. Xeras during his exile due to guilt for what he has done would realize something that was greatly overlooked when necrons entered their stasis. Entropy. Or more specifically they were shortsighted and forgot to properly take into account the effects of entropy. Which results in preemptive awakening, damaged systems etc. Xeras realized that due to entropy necron have 2 options: either go with the plan and essentially gamble their chances but risk never re-awakening due to damage caused by entropy(which evidently shows that its really not in their favor). OR try to awaken as much as possible, asses the situation and deal with threats before considering going into stasis again. But to achieve that they need to be unified under one rule. And since necron nobles like humanity ones, cares only for self interest and gains, only Xeras would have a chance at achieving that without resulting in unnecessary conflicts due to conflicting interests. Hence the king returns from self exile to try to do whats right for his people. Luminor Zeras: Think of Zeras same way as a techpriest. A techpriest knows how to maintain and repair machinery, but they sure as hell have not even the slightest clue regarding its inner workings. Let alone reverse engineer it. Zeras was probably tasked by Catan to perform necessary alterations to their bodies in order to achieve bio-transference. He knows what will happen to the bodies during it. But reversing it could be entirely different ordeal with complications that could not be anticipated before. Or in other words: cool, you know how a car engine works, then by that logic you could break it down and then re-build a new different one with the parts gathered. Suddenly things get very different doesn't it? You can understand its workings but not how to build new engine from old one. Xeras understands how to convert necrontyr to a necron but not necron to necrontyr or some other body for that matter. Their long term goal: This is rather somewhat a oversight you did regarding the long term goal or perhaps I'm just using old info, so please correct me if I'm wrong. This dates to a pretty old video but the main question is: what did necrontyr wanted from the old ones but were never granted? Immortality. Reversing bio-transference wouldn't instantly mean back to old, frail flesh and blood. Whats exactly preventing them using all gathered knowledge to create perfect bodies for themselves? Once they figure out how to undo all damage caused, there isn't really much that would stop them from their initial wish made so long long ago. A perfect body of flesh and bone capable of same if not even greater feats than their metallic ones. They could develop a entirely new culture. After all, everything that is necron comes from their forsaken past. A world irradiated to hell, where a civilization build massive tombs and simply wait to die. Simply because of how little time they have due to their hostile homeworld. Well, thats just my perspective of it anyways.
A Mechanicus overview and a scolding of the Necrons? Praise to the Omnessiah and Machine God my Vox viewer’s machine spirit is truly blessed this week 🥲
As someone who's had to live through my grandparents suffering the ravages of dementia, the Necron's poorly explained motives seem to make sense to me. My grandfather in his final years would try every single day to get in his truck, drive to his shop and work on his heavy construction equipment, and there needed to be someone there to stop him at all times because he was too frail to do it. Maintaining his equipment had become a survival instinct, his livelihood had depended on it in the past, so he continued to do it, without really knowing why. The Necrons, with their seemingly lucid conviction to goals and ideals they used to need to fight an ancient, dead and buried threat seems to align perfectly with those symptoms. They simply don't seem demented to the casual human reader, because they fundamentally are still far more cognitively adept than the average human.
This whole vid makes a lot of sense, I generally think the Necrons are badass, I just got done reading the Twice-Dead King books. BUT… something about them was bothering me, and this was definitely it.
Perhaps the Pariah Gene was what made Blanks within humanity. Necrons were always obsessed with cutting off the Immaterium since they can’t harness it themselves, they constructed pylons to rob others of the Warp’s power.
The 40K Grim Dark Universe is vast and there are so many stories that can be told, so I too don't understand the mindset of limiting oneself to the Imperium of Man, the Emperor, the Primarchs, and the Horus Heresy. I love all that, but I also love hearing about the other races and factions, their backgrounds and motivations. It makes the 'verse so much richer and more eexpansive. We don't have to support only one side.
Why do i hear a dark version of the limahl never ending story song in my mind poppin up if i learn about necrons lore ... Wow luetin09 the best lore master knows how to set the stage & bring out the actors & impress us all his every grim dark audience in the current reality....
i think there could be multiple factions within the necrons on the issue of reverse bio transferance. some dynasties want it, some dont, maybe theres some middle road group. and of coarse they fight eachother over it
I thought they did move away from their star, but by that time the super-cancer was so baked in to their biology that not even the old ones could undo it
As Mentep stated in Twice-dead King: Ruin (I paraphrase): "In eternity, we revert to obsessions." All of the necron leadership are obsessed on something. Trazyn on collecting everything and, I think, the Silent King trying to save the necrontyr. It isn’t a logic goal, but it is how they may think.
The way I see it is the thing that allows the necrons to maintain themselves and not go insane is that the Nobles/characters who fixate on things like Trazyn and his obsession with collecting, Orikan and his desire to transcend their form, and Oltyx and his obsession with vindication. A lot of necron do not think past their goals or at least far enough to ever see a true end of it
I put it on the last video, but I'll say it again; Top 10 insane Drukhari shenanigans. I think that would be a fun vid, some of their lore is very whacky.
I used to be a Necron player back in 3rd edition loved the lore with the C'tan ruling over them, and that's why I despise the retcon. How are gods going to enslave an entire race and turn them into basically machines, but allow their leader to still feel feelings and be able to tell all the other necrons to betray and destroy them. It's the death star exhaust hole without the "well the designer purposely made a weak point" scenario. Also just one thing you said at the end about why not just leave to another planet to avoid dying, it was stated in the 3rd edition that the cancer was engrained into their DNA so there was no escape from their morbidly short lives.
In the Warped Galaxy books there's a Lord/Overlord (Can't recall which) who actually does almost take over a human body and part of it was just "Holy shit, SENSATION! I can taste! Smell! Touch!" The bigger picture as I see it is reversing bio-transference is a hard over-correction for losing their souls to the C'tan and an effort to reignite their culture and art rather than just maintaining it with the occasional slight tweak to the code. There'd almost certainly be dynasties who just noped out of reversing it, and the ones that do eventually realize that, oh yeah, mortality really sucks, so Necron scientists start working towards ways to put them BACK in new and improved ageless metal bodies, this time with their souls intact. Also the "why didn't they just leave their star system" was addressed, particularly in TDK. They DID expand beyond their home system, but the damage to their genetics and DNA was so old and so severe that it was now just baked into their species. Even when they lived on planets with nice, normal, not-being-eaten-by-star-gods suns they still would manifest the tumors and illnesses. I've been into the Necrons since their 2E "Space Undead!" appearance, and while I do really miss the "The Necrons are the definitive villains of the setting, even the Nids fear and avoid them" shtick, we got Trazyn and Zandrekh out of the deal, so inclined to call it a fair trade.
Yeah this is the thing. I find it really hard to accept that they couldnt just use their mastery of technology to figure out a way to fix their genetics. Although I guess its arguable some of their most powerful technology was not possible until the Ctan transference. It is a really interesting idea that they were so heavily restricted just by their space travel, and that this really trapped them in a position they were desperate for a way out of their situation, but then its often been also said, how were they able to build a civilisation in the first place lol, maybe the radiation that destroyed them became more severe later on
If you look at it, the Necrons are perfectly suited for exploring other galaxies. They don't need food, water, etc. They can just travel. I agree with the bio-transference reversal "problem". Why would you give up that which made you the power you are?
I wish there was more content that focuses on being on the side of the Xenos, from the Xenos perspective, instead of the Imperium for a change. I don't hate the Imperium, don't get me wrong. I just feel I'd like to see things from another side sometimes. I just constantly feel 40K has so, so much more potential that may be realized through media, games and such, it's crazy.
Now i know in the word bearers novels the necrons had inertial-less drives to go faster than light. So they weren't restricted to sub light travel like the nids.
To answer the question, why didn't the Necrontyr moved far away from their homeworld's sun because they had the technology to do so, well, they did, but after spending god knows how long radiated by their sun, it destroyed their DNA to the point where they were sick even outside of their original solar system, which is explained in flashbacks in the Twice Dead King. As for their end game issue, I always seen the Necrons to be a deeply fragmented culture by the time of the 41th millenium. So while a few nobles might lament over what happened with biotransference, others such as Imotekh revel in the strength of necrodermis, then we have the flayed ones and destroyers who lost their sanity, and we also have the Nephrekh dynasty or Orikan wishing to transcend to being of pure energy. The Necron end game is really about taking back they consider to be theirs all the while surviving the curse brought by biotransference.
You are slightly missing the point Luetin. Yes Necrons are doomed to stay alone in a dead Galaxy. They are very well aware of that very 40k fact, so they have this fantasy about reverse biotransfer. Which they will never achieve. This pointless quest is the supreme irony of their lore, and it is very well written. Let's pray that GW never develops this biotransfer reverse !
I think there’s a very clear goal for the Votann. Maintaining the Votann. You know, those things central to their lore that GW made a big stink about the degradation of? And their space ale is called Brü.
This reminds me of the aliens in 'blindsight' (Peter Watts) that are dangerous and intelligent but not really conscious. Kinda like a super advanced autopilot and the captain is dead.
Eventually the Silent King will realize that his race will never be able to return to normal again but will do everything to recreate their race using every bit of knowledge he has gathered. The Silent King will then realize he's ended up doing what the Old Ones have been doing all those eons ago. The necrons will seed life all over the galaxy while serving as its eternal protectors, dealing with imperfect genetic products as they see fit while uplifting the successful ones and occasionally dealing with Trayzn who keeps taking away samples of each new race for his diorama collection.
On what the Mechannicus will do with there knowledge, one view on Aristotle is that the best life is to know everything and then contemplate it (I simplify). I mean, it’s a definite, finite goal - assuming knowledge is finite.
I have a different take on the Necron's end goal. Think of all the myths of old about gods who envy humanity for their mortality. Many Necrons actively long for their mortal life and I can certainly see why: living forever is one thing, but what meaning does the life of an individual immortal being have or more accurately what meaning _can_ it have? Existence for it's own sake is a hollow goal. Everything we value as humans stems from the fact that our time is finite. Also I think that there is some secret still about what is inside the "brain" of a Necron pleb warrior. I guess that the mind is shackled or in a sleeping mode via command protocols/programming/etc.
Their motivations should be retconned to fit a alternative past where their "souls" were not actually lost, but imprisoned in some type of artifact created by the old ones. Now they go out in raids to find the artifact containing all their "souls" to put it back into their bodies. Then they will be sentient and imortal.
A part of me wonders if there's not, squirreled away on some tomb world in some database, the knowledge to grow new bodies. To birth from a lap new lives. Could they return to those bodies? Maybe. Would they want to? Maybe like a vacation home? But it's possible that some of the lords might rule over and guide it. Remaining ageless defenders of a galaxy they conquered, and then watch it grow old, time and time again.
My end game idea.. Dark mechaicus feed the Newton with the idea that they may retain their form and be given a soul to call their own... Albeit the souls are warp entities, some decent, some abominations, some terrible and depraved, and even some of children who died long ago... The neurons would be given mostly average and non Dartmoor souls at first... A few daemons that can be attributed to code errors for some of the more deranged necrons... This ultimately leaves the neurons with a choice, to recycle souls from the warp and make mortal choices or go on as fine and functional but working towards chaos goals
Feels weird to try to fit a single unifying end goal onto the necrons, even before the c'tan they consisted of rival dynasties with vastly differing motivations. If they were ever actually presented with the opportunity to reverse the bio transference... I suspect it would just be a return to old form basically, some would jump at the opportunity, some would never want to give up their immense power and some would be somewhere in the middle where they would very much like to return to a biological body, but they see all the logistical problems of doing so (some of which you very correctly pointed out). In short, i think it would be the start of a civil war, which would be very interesting imo, all the Necron dynasties fully awakened, returned to full power! ...But fully unable to capitalise on the fact due to everyone being at each others throats due to them, yet again, getting exactly what they asked for.
Sometimes I lament the fact that Necrons and Aeldari are too similar nowadays. They’re both ancient beyond comprehension with weaponry and technology beyond human reckoning. But then I remember that the Necrons are a mortal people forced to contend with infinity, and the Aeldari are an infinite people forced to contend with mortality. Their struggles couldn’t be more different.
I think it would be really cool if by "reversing the effects of biotransference" they ment only the negative effects. Which I think would be returning individual consciousness to the race as a whole or at least expanding their base code or equivalent to the point consciousness would eventually emerge. I think the reasoning would be that if they are truly the rightful rulers of the galaxy then why are some of us no more than animals? If their civilization is the pinnacle then why fear autonomy? I think it'd be cool if this is what the silent king was cooking up this whole time. I think the 40k verse could be really shaken up with each dynasty trying to deal with the new dynamics. Now people are asking questions and having different ideas or opinions. I think it'd be crazy to see how the new code interacts with the flayer virus. I think it would be cool if they gave up wearing flesh and feel such profound guilt and revulsion at their past deeds they form a splinter group that seems to show up exactly where they are needed, like the legion of the damned, to helps the organic races but never against other Necron forces.
Hey Leutin great points, but I don't see the goal of going back to being mortal to be all that odd. Remember that just because the hoi poloi necrons are essentially just mindless programs now, doesn't mean their faculties can't be restored and create new personalitites. If necrons went flesh and bone they would probably be like any other concious being emerging into conciousness, including an AI. LIke the AI's the mechanicus feared came from centuries and millenia of programming, engineering, machine learning and all kinds of activity before it became self-aware. There's not reason the Necrons can't, by becoming flesh and bone, have a similar "awakening". After, humans in 40k are turned into servitors, and Necron Warriors are really basically necrodermis servitors but with no soul. Whose to say they can't regain sentience and become a bunch of AI's, souless but aware? And, given the sometimes odd aspects of the 40k universe, who's to say they can't regain souls they had previously had? As such, I think the "back to flesh" is not as much of an issue with necrons as you think it is. It's another mysetery to be explored. My opinion of course, but I don't haveissues with necrons tyring to go back to how they were as an issue.
So, two hypotheticals . What if the leaders that still are with faculties, overwrite the software in the lower level ones, replacing with clones of themselves. Option 2, what if they discover a way to transer to a phylactery ? Then they could become flesh and have a protected soul hidden for later.
Ok, to me 40k has always been about how every faction is doomed to fail and die out even in the best scenario. For Necrons it's conquering the whole galaxy again, only to never be able to live again, doomed to slowly die out as their systems fail, they go insane, or the flayer virus wipes them out. Was going to write a longer comment about every single faction, but got too lazy. I think you get my point though. There are no happy endings in 40k
Wanting flesh instead of metal doesn't necessarily mean they want to be mortal. But this may also just be a desire of the degraded. Also the limitation of the lower classes maybe just their bodies and not their stored essence. Imagine that necron warriors are basically servitors but with fully intact personalities trapped in the basic programming of the construct.
My take on it, the necron haven't stagnated. They're declining. There is a finite number of necrons to begin with. Some are lost to the flayer curse, some taken by the destroyer madness, and a rare few are killed permanently as their body is destroyed somewhere out of contact with a tomb world. Any rate of loss would be terrifying to beings with such a long perspective on time as the necrons have. But if they could reverse biotransference, they could reverse it for a selection of necrons, enough to create a stable and growing population of necrontyr. From that population they can then cherry pick the best and brightest from each generation and "ascend" them to necrons. That then brings us to the same ultimate goal as most of the other civilisations in the galaxy: to grow and to advance their culture. A second point worth bringing up is that of souls. The necrons lost their souls during the original biotransference, with the C'Tan feasting on the released energies. But as Orikan discovers in the Infinite and the Divine, the necrontyr souls still exist in the warp in some fashion. Reclaiming their souls is another potential reason to pursue reversing biotransference. And to tie those together, it is alluded to that Szeras is going to be forever doomed to never fully grasp the secret of life. My read on that is that it is something that requires having one, and also understanding souls. And that to me is the most 40k ending possible for the necrons. They need to be able to reverse biotransference in order to grow, and, on the very long time frame, even survive at all. To reverse it though, they need to be able to interact with and manipulate souls in the warp, something that is anathema to them, and thus they are doomed to fail. As for biological beings being able to operate necron technology, as far as I've understood it, most, if not all, necron technology was created by the necrontyr in the first place. As necrons they merely adapted it to their new bodies. Immortals having the power source to their weapons integrated in their bodies for example, but that power source could reasonably just as well be worn as a backpack. The ghost ark is specifically called out as being a necrontyr vehicle that existed before biotransference in a previous codex.
Academically, culture usually refers to the ideas of a people or their ways of doings things (which also links to ideas). So I'd ask, what ideas or philosophies are the Necron pursuing? Can they develop new philosophies?
The original goal of the Necrontyr was to gain immortality..So that might be a possible end game for them. Gaining immortality whilst also preserving or reaquiring their souls. That could also lead to some sort of civil war like the horus heresy where one action wants to preserve their necrodermic form while the other wants to biotransfer in an organic form with a soul.
we can only imagine what it must be like to live without a soul. maybe the goal to be mortal again is the yearning to get their souls back. "live" without a soul might not be worth living is what they might have found out and are now trying to reverse that mistake.
I guess they could 'retcon' in that the low tier necrons actually do have their full consciousness in there somewhere, but it's almost entirely locked down like software or something. Or that the machinery used in the transference stored their original identities as a backup or... something. But yeah it's all quite unsatisfying and dumb.
Reading the twice deadking books, I get the feeling that reversing biotransference or any ultimate goal for that matter is just a vague consideration or a pretext to justify their actions and existence. Let me explain. A important concept in real life philosophy is that life is precious, because it is finite. That is what makes every moment count. A necron is immortal. Sure, there life can be ended prematurely, but without disturbance they would live forever. Their bodies that is. They still have the mind of a mortal being for the most part. More capable in memory volume and computing power, but functually the same. In the TDK the necrons all seek either opsessions or stick hard to reach goals for themselves in order to not go insane. Reversing biotransference is a maybe unreachable goal that provides a shimmer of hope to their pointless exsistence. It is a noble cause to reclaim what has been taken from them by the betrayer. At the same time they abhore mortality and think of biology itself as unclean. My point is: The Necron probably don't like to think about their "endgame" and the nature of their existence themselves, because there is either no good answer on what to do or worse: Logically speaking everything they might set as a goal is absolutely meaningless in the grand scheme of things given their infinite lifespan. This is a possible source of insanity and why a nebolous, far away fantasy may be preffered as it provides them hope for a brighter future and a purpose for which to exist and spend their attention and time.
Originally, what they really wanted was immortality AND a nice body, with a good brain. But they got only the first. After throwing a huge tantrum, they went to sleep for ages and are now slowly awakening. Still pissed off at everyone but can't even remember why, their tantrum continues. Meanwhile, the Silent King is still trying to find a way to 'fix' all this.
Y'know, I am thinking: Necron are incorruptible by chaos, for they have no soul. But the War with the Men of Iron was just that: corruption of soulless machines. Does this mean that humanity had developed the technology to create souls and the Men of Iron had souls? what would this mean for the Necron, can they get souls?
I think that saying it's the end goal for ALL the dynasties is probably wrong. I suspect some are quite content with what they have and won't go back. The Silent Kinghas obsessed over his mistake for 60 million years, and so for HIM there's no choice, and Illuminor Szeras is following orders. But Orikan wants to ASCEND, he wants nothing to do with physicality at all, much less mortality.
I think it's the perfect story for them, because it's an impossible goal. How does a thing that's dead become alive again? It can't; they are as futile as the Imperium. Or, based on what we see in the novels, they are fragmented and failing to such an extent that they can't even see how failed they are. They also don't cooperate well at all, because of their arrogance...when they're functioning at all. Their goal is absurd, and it's great that they have one. The 40k universe is largely allegorical with many classical and Shakespearean themes. Because of this, the Necron require a place in the greater narrative as another holding one of moral characterizations or thematic stylizations. The other races play their parts, and the narrative of the Necrons required adjustment. Now it is one of futility against decay. In fact, you said it early in the video--they thought they could escape entropy (or that it would do its work for them), but they couldn't have been more wrong. 40k loves its ironies, and the Necron's transformed lore has fit in perfectly, especially after the book series and the Infinite and the Divine.
![40K's MOST INSANE & POWERFUL WEAPONS [Part One] | WARHAMMER 40,000 Lore/History](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/F2G1F3l-R9M/mqdefault.jpg)
![40K's MOST INSANE & POWERFUL WEAPONS [Part One] | WARHAMMER 40,000 Lore/History](/img/tr.png)
![40K - STC [2] THE FUTURE OF MANKIND | Warhammer 40,000 Lore/History](/img/n.gif)
This video was originally titled - What do I HATE about the Necron? lol which seemed too ott. Let me know what gets under your skin on a permanent basis when it comes to the lore... ALSO - - please help me appease our lord ALGO, by Liking the vid if you enjoy
can you please release a version without loud music for us insomniacs?
Good name change I think.
@@ragmt09 so this one basically.
Two videos in one week? The Machine God surely smiles upon us this day!
Liked! :DD
I've never played 40k, but rely on the lore when falling asleep. Luten is by far my favorite lore creator. He might never sleep but he helps me too.
Same
Do you have any favorite factions? You can have more than one. Example, when I want a more human play through I collect models for my guardsmen army and when I want to catter to my urge for brutish thuggish inhuman violence I ADDZ SOME ORKZ TO ME WAAAAAGH! I love tyranids too.
@@thegametroll6264shush, Eldar are bestdar
@@godsblood85 never did sit right with the Eldar. Too elegant for my taste.
Ironic. He could save others from not sleeping, but not himself.
This is awesome! Luetin is just cranking out quality videos this month.
What do you expect of 40ks true lore master. And if you browse the comments you get even more (and almost never trolls). Blessed me are brother
@@philsanders9625 Luetin has the most civilised fanbse I've ever seen. It's almost unbelievable.
This man has mastered the art of the Outro
How trazyn and orakin are portrayed in the infinite and the divine was perfect to me. An all powerful race that squabbles like children is exactly what I needed in the 40k universe. Such as how trazyn pulls the thing from his museum to attack orakin and bring about the big problem at the end they needed to solve, genius.
As for the necron end game. I always see it as they are hunting for a way to return to their mortal forms so they can enjoy the pleasures of the flesh while also finding a way to avoid death once the lesser races are subjugated. They wanted immortality and power, but it was a monkey's paw deal that they are now trying to reverse.
I think your gripe here is what makes Necrons so interesting for me. A small argument between Trazyn and Orikan displayed it well; the Necron don't truly know if they can transfer back, and they haven't really thought about it very much. They know that they hate having no souls, and that they fear the future with their inability to reproduce, but they don't want to think about what happens when they return to the flesh. If they think about it, they might end up realising that they don't really want it after all, and that the purgatory they live in is the best they'll get.
I do have a sneaking suspicion that part of the end goal of some Necron might be to kill two birds with one stone: wipe out the Eldar, but steal their ageless bodies in doing it.
They haven't thought about it much over millions of years? Hardly plausible imo.
oh its interesting all right, but I just want to hear a little more about it than an introductory sentence, as then at least it would feel like ok THIS is what theyre working towards
just transfer some back or genetically create a few and breed for good sustainability. then upload the software so they can feel and voila
@@inthefade well, most of them where not realy "aware" during those millions of years. They just kinda "skip intro" in stasis. And the few that maybe have ben awake and aware and smart enough to conjure up such thoughts might have other things going on in their twisted minds, like creating the most realistic full-scale diorama of certain events that took place every decade or so.
@@Luetin09seems pretty obvious. The eldar are an enemy with basically infinite lives and an incredible “oneness” with the universe, to the point that their conscious and unconscious thought can create literal gods. The necrontyr were weak, short lived, and did not really have any form of psychic power or connection. They had to co opt the ctan and became their servants and became cold, unfeeling, unable to think machines with many losing their intelligence and all losing their “soul.” The eldar got reincarnated when they died (until slaanesh) and while living they have a psychic power that connects them to every other member of their race. The eldar have, on a basic level, everything the necron ever wanted or could want. They wouldn’t even have to fear slaanesh because they have proven they have technology that negates psyker influence or cuts it off to create “independent spaces” that could allow them to preserve their souls from being absorbed and instead force the reincarnation to occur on their terms. Granted psyker power is mental on a technical level, but if the necron steal living flesh, I imagine the genes to develop it would pass on to the next generation. It’s killing more than a few birds with one stone for the necrons. They gain flesh bodies and a new way to independently bio transfer because they’d probably be able to reincarnate freely, the eldar get killed, and they now have access to a genetic power they could not previously use in a form that benefits greatly from collective will, like say a civilization set on conquering the galaxy and eliminating a set of all powerful star eating “gods”
What if the Necron, having tasted immortality and the horror of it's reality, simply desire death. Death on their own terms, and to bring everyone else with them. Such is their spite for having been played such a cruel hand. Just a thought. I absolutely love your speculations!
Yeah that’d actually be fitting, especially in 40k context, discovering that the immortality they desired is more curse than blessing and wanting out of it but being unable to
I think the final lesson of the story of the Necrons is "be careful what you wish for."
They were so obsessed with prolonging their short, fragile lives they (unsurprisingly) didn't stop to think of the consequences, and that made them perfect targets for the C'tan.
My thought exactly, i think they should be treated more like we view the vampire curse. At some point you just wish to die
The Necrons don't have one unified goal as it stands and giving them all the goal of "let's kill ourselves and everyone else" clashes heavily with established Necron characters
They can die easily they just need to turn off the teleportation and repair protocols.
major gripe: how did the emperor not see horus’ betrayal coming when his name was “Horus Heresy”
Yes, Inquisitor this one. He speaks heresy.
He trully was the Warhammer 40k
Is there a mechanics priest or domino's that needs another servitor or arco-flagulator
Dominus
Heresy!
Blessing us with these long videos so close together. Mechanicus and the Necrons are my favorite lore(aside from Emperor content of course). This stuff is gold and I hope you’re richly rewarded for such excellent content
I've been into 40k for 20yrs, and its hilarious to think I may die before knowing the fate of the Emperor.
Bonus points for "middle, middle, middle" to get through the 60-some million years between The Silent King's departure and return. 'Infinite and the Divine' is so far one of my favorite 40k books (though to be fair, I've mostly been working through the Heresy so far), and for soulless living metal creatures, those two are pretty damn funny at times.
The Necron are my absolute *favourite* faction. Their novels are wonderful and they look so damn cool.
Dude I love how you used all the early necron codex pictures during 11:00
I had to take my old copy down and have a look through after
You should include books for deeper understanding in most videos honestly. I know occasionally you’ll mention the book that was the source of some quote or lore, but often the source material behind videos is rarely easy to find. I understand this is usually because the videos compile details as small as a single sentence from 20 different books, but the bulk material of most videos does have a single book or series at its core, and mentioning those specifically at the start would be a cool addition!
My absolute favourite faction on 40k BY FAR. It would be great if you could put out more Necron content! This was absolutely amazing!
In grand strategy video games theres a playstyle called Playing Tall. Basically ignoring expansion and focusing on the land you already own. I feel like the Necron might fit that mold.
Oh btw, that’s the best analogy I’ve ever heard about story or setting argument. It is a story now because GW decided to make something besides circular campaign novels to sell models, but it’s also very much a setting because it’s not focused solely on mankind. The multiple points of view makes it more of a setting than storyline. Broadly speaking it’s a collections of stories from multiple races in the setting of 30k-40k plus.
What a coincidence. Just started to paint my first army this week and of course they are Necrons. Great timing.
It would be cool if the Necron were trying to fully understand Bio-transference in order to transfer the minds of the C’tan into mortal bodies and fully destroy them as a final revenge. Great vid as always :D
Really love the necrons. My first army. Hope you make a video about the Genestealer Cults as they are quite an interesting but overlooked faction
we can make reverse bio transference work, tie it up as a vague end goal and make the end goal something more personally interesting by making the entire civilization in the image of a single character. how? run with what themes we have - undeath - and bio transference can run along the theme of ghosts/specters. maybe the necron will discover how to transfer their minds into other living creatures, possessing them, having some fun, then moving onto the next body. this turns the end goal into a short term drama, freeing up the silent king to make us question how we would not just rule, but sculpt a culture/civilization if we had that power
Absolutely love the video on the Necrons and totally agree with the gripe of their actual endgame. For me I try to justify the idea of undoing biotransferrence with 2 immediate goals.
1: Undo the damage to protocol pathways that endless time as machines seems to be causing.
2: using the current species in existence, unlock immortality in a mortal shell
the 1st issue explains the Necrons immediate need to return to a more mortal form. The flayer virus, destroyer virus, and general non response to awakening protocols are becoming more and more widespread throughout the Necron dynasties and threatens to wipe the Necons from the galaxy faster(in their eyes) than any exterior threat. The second issue is more of a long term goal after solving the short term issues (again in their eyes) of defeating the warp, the tyrannids, and re-conquering the galaxy for themselves.
The Necrons are just so much fun to follow lore wise because they really are just the angry grandfather complaining about the kids on their lawn. the problems they have stretch multiple millennia so it isn't a particular surprise that they aren't truly considering the dangers of returning to a mortal form could truly present. Because the lore has recently been retconned, we feel like ending biotransferrence is a recent highly important goal, when in reality, it's more of an afterthought to the nobles of the Dynasties. Realistically there's nothing of their general populace to save. If Szeras emerged tomorrow (figuritively) with a way to reinforce the decaying protocols and end the derangements afflicting the Necrons, the conversation concerning returning to mortal shells would instantly disappear.
I mean the Necrons are more concerned with 60 million year old vendettas between dynasties than they are any current threat: pre Szarekh returning with his warnings concerning the Tyrannids. Even the looming threat of the warp in many cases is less a concern than who pissed a certain lord off 60 million years ago. Priorities amirite!
I like how in The Infinite and the Devine, Orikan is interested in the rest of his species desire to reverse biotransference and would rather ascend to the energy form(until the end of the book that is).
While I may not be most versed in WH40k lore, there is some stuff that came to mind regarding things you mentioned in the video such as Zeras inability to reverse bio-transference even though he worked on it himself. However... explaining the countless thoughts running through my mind is pain in the ass so I'll try my best to explain a bit different perspective on the matter.
Silent King: The entire self exile to the sudden return with new focus could be rather simple. Xeras during his exile due to guilt for what he has done would realize something that was greatly overlooked when necrons entered their stasis. Entropy. Or more specifically they were shortsighted and forgot to properly take into account the effects of entropy. Which results in preemptive awakening, damaged systems etc. Xeras realized that due to entropy necron have 2 options: either go with the plan and essentially gamble their chances but risk never re-awakening due to damage caused by entropy(which evidently shows that its really not in their favor). OR try to awaken as much as possible, asses the situation and deal with threats before considering going into stasis again. But to achieve that they need to be unified under one rule. And since necron nobles like humanity ones, cares only for self interest and gains, only Xeras would have a chance at achieving that without resulting in unnecessary conflicts due to conflicting interests. Hence the king returns from self exile to try to do whats right for his people.
Luminor Zeras: Think of Zeras same way as a techpriest. A techpriest knows how to maintain and repair machinery, but they sure as hell have not even the slightest clue regarding its inner workings. Let alone reverse engineer it. Zeras was probably tasked by Catan to perform necessary alterations to their bodies in order to achieve bio-transference. He knows what will happen to the bodies during it. But reversing it could be entirely different ordeal with complications that could not be anticipated before. Or in other words: cool, you know how a car engine works, then by that logic you could break it down and then re-build a new different one with the parts gathered. Suddenly things get very different doesn't it? You can understand its workings but not how to build new engine from old one. Xeras understands how to convert necrontyr to a necron but not necron to necrontyr or some other body for that matter.
Their long term goal: This is rather somewhat a oversight you did regarding the long term goal or perhaps I'm just using old info, so please correct me if I'm wrong. This dates to a pretty old video but the main question is: what did necrontyr wanted from the old ones but were never granted? Immortality. Reversing bio-transference wouldn't instantly mean back to old, frail flesh and blood. Whats exactly preventing them using all gathered knowledge to create perfect bodies for themselves? Once they figure out how to undo all damage caused, there isn't really much that would stop them from their initial wish made so long long ago. A perfect body of flesh and bone capable of same if not even greater feats than their metallic ones. They could develop a entirely new culture. After all, everything that is necron comes from their forsaken past. A world irradiated to hell, where a civilization build massive tombs and simply wait to die. Simply because of how little time they have due to their hostile homeworld.
Well, thats just my perspective of it anyways.
A Mechanicus overview and a scolding of the Necrons? Praise to the Omnessiah and Machine God my Vox viewer’s machine spirit is truly blessed this week 🥲
As someone who's had to live through my grandparents suffering the ravages of dementia, the Necron's poorly explained motives seem to make sense to me. My grandfather in his final years would try every single day to get in his truck, drive to his shop and work on his heavy construction equipment, and there needed to be someone there to stop him at all times because he was too frail to do it. Maintaining his equipment had become a survival instinct, his livelihood had depended on it in the past, so he continued to do it, without really knowing why. The Necrons, with their seemingly lucid conviction to goals and ideals they used to need to fight an ancient, dead and buried threat seems to align perfectly with those symptoms. They simply don't seem demented to the casual human reader, because they fundamentally are still far more cognitively adept than the average human.
I love the idea of "the less important memories" being on a floppy disk. Such a good video, I love me my necrons
Trazyn ‘We must preserve the universe, it’s where I keep all my stuff’ The Infinite
I love your videos on the necrons. Your the main reason why I love the necrons so much
An entire race that can be summed up by - "Be careful what you wish for, you might get it".
not first, but one of the early and loyal. Now I have something to listen to during late night office work.
That is indeed hilarious ending for the Necron. Well deserved 😂😂
This whole vid makes a lot of sense, I generally think the Necrons are badass, I just got done reading the Twice-Dead King books. BUT… something about them was bothering me, and this was definitely it.
Perhaps the Pariah Gene was what made Blanks within humanity.
Necrons were always obsessed with cutting off the Immaterium since they can’t harness it themselves, they constructed pylons to rob others of the Warp’s power.
The 40K Grim Dark Universe is vast and there are so many stories that can be told, so I too don't understand the mindset of limiting oneself to the Imperium of Man, the Emperor, the Primarchs, and the Horus Heresy. I love all that, but I also love hearing about the other races and factions, their backgrounds and motivations. It makes the 'verse so much richer and more eexpansive. We don't have to support only one side.
Why do i hear a dark version of the limahl never ending story song in my mind poppin up if i learn about necrons lore ...
Wow luetin09 the best lore master knows how to set the stage & bring out the actors & impress us all his every grim dark audience in the current reality....
i think there could be multiple factions within the necrons on the issue of reverse bio transferance. some dynasties want it, some dont, maybe theres some middle road group. and of coarse they fight eachother over it
Thank the God Emperor for Luetin's content. Praise be the Omnissiah, and let the algorithm be pleased
I thought they did move away from their star, but by that time the super-cancer was so baked in to their biology that not even the old ones could undo it
I'd love an in-depth look into Trazyns galleries and collections. What artifacts does he have, what would he like to have and so on..
Two Luetin videos in a week. Likes for the TH-cam god; comments for the algorithm!
As Mentep stated in Twice-dead King: Ruin (I paraphrase): "In eternity, we revert to obsessions."
All of the necron leadership are obsessed on something. Trazyn on collecting everything and, I think, the Silent King trying to save the necrontyr.
It isn’t a logic goal, but it is how they may think.
It all boils down to an honest answer to the question "What do you want?" And the Necrons, I feel, cannot answer that question.
The way I see it is the thing that allows the necrons to maintain themselves and not go insane is that the Nobles/characters who fixate on things like Trazyn and his obsession with collecting, Orikan and his desire to transcend their form, and Oltyx and his obsession with vindication. A lot of necron do not think past their goals or at least far enough to ever see a true end of it
I put it on the last video, but I'll say it again;
Top 10 insane Drukhari shenanigans. I think that would be a fun vid, some of their lore is very whacky.
The infinite & the divine is one of the best books I’ve read in 40k
I used to be a Necron player back in 3rd edition loved the lore with the C'tan ruling over them, and that's why I despise the retcon. How are gods going to enslave an entire race and turn them into basically machines, but allow their leader to still feel feelings and be able to tell all the other necrons to betray and destroy them. It's the death star exhaust hole without the "well the designer purposely made a weak point" scenario. Also just one thing you said at the end about why not just leave to another planet to avoid dying, it was stated in the 3rd edition that the cancer was engrained into their DNA so there was no escape from their morbidly short lives.
Great video about my favourite faction.
I do think it’s nit-picking, but it’s nice to hear your thoughts on it.
I love everything non-human in 40k, especially necrons!
Luetin's new book "Necrons and the Eternal Cul du sac"
In the Warped Galaxy books there's a Lord/Overlord (Can't recall which) who actually does almost take over a human body and part of it was just "Holy shit, SENSATION! I can taste! Smell! Touch!"
The bigger picture as I see it is reversing bio-transference is a hard over-correction for losing their souls to the C'tan and an effort to reignite their culture and art rather than just maintaining it with the occasional slight tweak to the code. There'd almost certainly be dynasties who just noped out of reversing it, and the ones that do eventually realize that, oh yeah, mortality really sucks, so Necron scientists start working towards ways to put them BACK in new and improved ageless metal bodies, this time with their souls intact.
Also the "why didn't they just leave their star system" was addressed, particularly in TDK. They DID expand beyond their home system, but the damage to their genetics and DNA was so old and so severe that it was now just baked into their species. Even when they lived on planets with nice, normal, not-being-eaten-by-star-gods suns they still would manifest the tumors and illnesses.
I've been into the Necrons since their 2E "Space Undead!" appearance, and while I do really miss the "The Necrons are the definitive villains of the setting, even the Nids fear and avoid them" shtick, we got Trazyn and Zandrekh out of the deal, so inclined to call it a fair trade.
Yeah this is the thing. I find it really hard to accept that they couldnt just use their mastery of technology to figure out a way to fix their genetics. Although I guess its arguable some of their most powerful technology was not possible until the Ctan transference. It is a really interesting idea that they were so heavily restricted just by their space travel, and that this really trapped them in a position they were desperate for a way out of their situation, but then its often been also said, how were they able to build a civilisation in the first place lol, maybe the radiation that destroyed them became more severe later on
If you look at it, the Necrons are perfectly suited for exploring other galaxies. They don't need food, water, etc. They can just travel. I agree with the bio-transference reversal "problem". Why would you give up that which made you the power you are?
I wish there was more content that focuses on being on the side of the Xenos, from the Xenos perspective, instead of the Imperium for a change. I don't hate the Imperium, don't get me wrong. I just feel I'd like to see things from another side sometimes. I just constantly feel 40K has so, so much more potential that may be realized through media, games and such, it's crazy.
Now i know in the word bearers novels the necrons had inertial-less drives to go faster than light. So they weren't restricted to sub light travel like the nids.
To answer the question, why didn't the Necrontyr moved far away from their homeworld's sun because they had the technology to do so, well, they did, but after spending god knows how long radiated by their sun, it destroyed their DNA to the point where they were sick even outside of their original solar system, which is explained in flashbacks in the Twice Dead King.
As for their end game issue, I always seen the Necrons to be a deeply fragmented culture by the time of the 41th millenium.
So while a few nobles might lament over what happened with biotransference, others such as Imotekh revel in the strength of necrodermis, then we have the flayed ones and destroyers who lost their sanity, and we also have the Nephrekh dynasty or Orikan wishing to transcend to being of pure energy.
The Necron end game is really about taking back they consider to be theirs all the while surviving the curse brought by biotransference.
You are slightly missing the point Luetin. Yes Necrons are doomed to stay alone in a dead Galaxy. They are very well aware of that very 40k fact, so they have this fantasy about reverse biotransfer. Which they will never achieve. This pointless quest is the supreme irony of their lore, and it is very well written. Let's pray that GW never develops this biotransfer reverse !
Emperor's Throne! I just loked to see how long I've been subbed tocthe channel and it's been 14 effing years!
I think there’s a very clear goal for the Votann. Maintaining the Votann. You know, those things central to their lore that GW made a big stink about the degradation of?
And their space ale is called Brü.
This reminds me of the aliens in 'blindsight' (Peter Watts) that are dangerous and intelligent but not really conscious. Kinda like a super advanced autopilot and the captain is dead.
Let the light of ALGO shine upon this channel. I offer to you Luetin09 my utmost praise and gratitude to your offerings.
Eventually the Silent King will realize that his race will never be able to return to normal again but will do everything to recreate their race using every bit of knowledge he has gathered. The Silent King will then realize he's ended up doing what the Old Ones have been doing all those eons ago. The necrons will seed life all over the galaxy while serving as its eternal protectors, dealing with imperfect genetic products as they see fit while uplifting the successful ones and occasionally dealing with Trayzn who keeps taking away samples of each new race for his diorama collection.
On what the Mechannicus will do with there knowledge, one view on Aristotle is that the best life is to know everything and then contemplate it (I simplify). I mean, it’s a definite, finite goal - assuming knowledge is finite.
Maybe it’s just the scarabs in my brain talking, but pretty sure this is your best video yet!
I have a different take on the Necron's end goal. Think of all the myths of old about gods who envy humanity for their mortality. Many Necrons actively long for their mortal life and I can certainly see why: living forever is one thing, but what meaning does the life of an individual immortal being have or more accurately what meaning _can_ it have? Existence for it's own sake is a hollow goal.
Everything we value as humans stems from the fact that our time is finite.
Also I think that there is some secret still about what is inside the "brain" of a Necron pleb warrior. I guess that the mind is shackled or in a sleeping mode via command protocols/programming/etc.
Their motivations should be retconned to fit a alternative past where their "souls" were not actually lost, but imprisoned in some type of artifact created by the old ones. Now they go out in raids to find the artifact containing all their "souls" to put it back into their bodies. Then they will be sentient and imortal.
A part of me wonders if there's not, squirreled away on some tomb world in some database, the knowledge to grow new bodies. To birth from a lap new lives. Could they return to those bodies? Maybe. Would they want to? Maybe like a vacation home? But it's possible that some of the lords might rule over and guide it. Remaining ageless defenders of a galaxy they conquered, and then watch it grow old, time and time again.
I appreciate the effort and work you put into your videos. Love the content
My end game idea.. Dark mechaicus feed the Newton with the idea that they may retain their form and be given a soul to call their own... Albeit the souls are warp entities, some decent, some abominations, some terrible and depraved, and even some of children who died long ago... The neurons would be given mostly average and non Dartmoor souls at first... A few daemons that can be attributed to code errors for some of the more deranged necrons... This ultimately leaves the neurons with a choice, to recycle souls from the warp and make mortal choices or go on as fine and functional but working towards chaos goals
Feels weird to try to fit a single unifying end goal onto the necrons, even before the c'tan they consisted of rival dynasties with vastly differing motivations.
If they were ever actually presented with the opportunity to reverse the bio transference... I suspect it would just be a return to old form basically, some would jump at the opportunity, some would never want to give up their immense power and some would be somewhere in the middle where they would very much like to return to a biological body, but they see all the logistical problems of doing so (some of which you very correctly pointed out).
In short, i think it would be the start of a civil war, which would be very interesting imo, all the Necron dynasties fully awakened, returned to full power! ...But fully unable to capitalise on the fact due to everyone being at each others throats due to them, yet again, getting exactly what they asked for.
Sometimes I lament the fact that Necrons and Aeldari are too similar nowadays. They’re both ancient beyond comprehension with weaponry and technology beyond human reckoning. But then I remember that the Necrons are a mortal people forced to contend with infinity, and the Aeldari are an infinite people forced to contend with mortality. Their struggles couldn’t be more different.
Oh here we go! He has graced us!
Blessed Emperor, another video! Thank you for making my day
that ending, ohgod.
I agree on everything
Wow. Just in time to paint my grey knights!
Admech then necron? What's next more knights and you cover my three favorite armies?
might have broken my knee today but it's okay the loremaster eases the pain.
Also Luetin hope your voice is okay!
I think it would be really cool if by "reversing the effects of biotransference" they ment only the negative effects. Which I think would be returning individual consciousness to the race as a whole or at least expanding their base code or equivalent to the point consciousness would eventually emerge. I think the reasoning would be that if they are truly the rightful rulers of the galaxy then why are some of us no more than animals? If their civilization is the pinnacle then why fear autonomy? I think it'd be cool if this is what the silent king was cooking up this whole time. I think the 40k verse could be really shaken up with each dynasty trying to deal with the new dynamics. Now people are asking questions and having different ideas or opinions. I think it'd be crazy to see how the new code interacts with the flayer virus. I think it would be cool if they gave up wearing flesh and feel such profound guilt and revulsion at their past deeds they form a splinter group that seems to show up exactly where they are needed, like the legion of the damned, to helps the organic races but never against other Necron forces.
Thank you Luetin. You keep me in cheek for wh40K
Hell yeah! New friday vid thank yee sir
Hey Leutin great points, but I don't see the goal of going back to being mortal to be all that odd. Remember that just because the hoi poloi necrons are essentially just mindless programs now, doesn't mean their faculties can't be restored and create new personalitites. If necrons went flesh and bone they would probably be like any other concious being emerging into conciousness, including an AI. LIke the AI's the mechanicus feared came from centuries and millenia of programming, engineering, machine learning and all kinds of activity before it became self-aware. There's not reason the Necrons can't, by becoming flesh and bone, have a similar "awakening". After, humans in 40k are turned into servitors, and Necron Warriors are really basically necrodermis servitors but with no soul. Whose to say they can't regain sentience and become a bunch of AI's, souless but aware? And, given the sometimes odd aspects of the 40k universe, who's to say they can't regain souls they had previously had? As such, I think the "back to flesh" is not as much of an issue with necrons as you think it is. It's another mysetery to be explored. My opinion of course, but I don't haveissues with necrons tyring to go back to how they were as an issue.
So, two hypotheticals . What if the leaders that still are with faculties, overwrite the software in the lower level ones, replacing with clones of themselves. Option 2, what if they discover a way to transer to a phylactery ? Then they could become flesh and have a protected soul hidden for later.
Ok, to me 40k has always been about how every faction is doomed to fail and die out even in the best scenario.
For Necrons it's conquering the whole galaxy again, only to never be able to live again, doomed to slowly die out as their systems fail, they go insane, or the flayer virus wipes them out.
Was going to write a longer comment about every single faction, but got too lazy. I think you get my point though. There are no happy endings in 40k
Is it my lucky day? a Necron episode?!!
I beg you loremaster to upload the third video on the Great Nachmund War
Wanting flesh instead of metal doesn't necessarily mean they want to be mortal. But this may also just be a desire of the degraded.
Also the limitation of the lower classes maybe just their bodies and not their stored essence. Imagine that necron warriors are basically servitors but with fully intact personalities trapped in the basic programming of the construct.
My take on it, the necron haven't stagnated. They're declining. There is a finite number of necrons to begin with. Some are lost to the flayer curse, some taken by the destroyer madness, and a rare few are killed permanently as their body is destroyed somewhere out of contact with a tomb world. Any rate of loss would be terrifying to beings with such a long perspective on time as the necrons have.
But if they could reverse biotransference, they could reverse it for a selection of necrons, enough to create a stable and growing population of necrontyr. From that population they can then cherry pick the best and brightest from each generation and "ascend" them to necrons.
That then brings us to the same ultimate goal as most of the other civilisations in the galaxy: to grow and to advance their culture.
A second point worth bringing up is that of souls. The necrons lost their souls during the original biotransference, with the C'Tan feasting on the released energies. But as Orikan discovers in the Infinite and the Divine, the necrontyr souls still exist in the warp in some fashion. Reclaiming their souls is another potential reason to pursue reversing biotransference.
And to tie those together, it is alluded to that Szeras is going to be forever doomed to never fully grasp the secret of life. My read on that is that it is something that requires having one, and also understanding souls.
And that to me is the most 40k ending possible for the necrons. They need to be able to reverse biotransference in order to grow, and, on the very long time frame, even survive at all.
To reverse it though, they need to be able to interact with and manipulate souls in the warp, something that is anathema to them, and thus they are doomed to fail.
As for biological beings being able to operate necron technology, as far as I've understood it, most, if not all, necron technology was created by the necrontyr in the first place. As necrons they merely adapted it to their new bodies. Immortals having the power source to their weapons integrated in their bodies for example, but that power source could reasonably just as well be worn as a backpack.
The ghost ark is specifically called out as being a necrontyr vehicle that existed before biotransference in a previous codex.
Academically, culture usually refers to the ideas of a people or their ways of doings things (which also links to ideas). So I'd ask, what ideas or philosophies are the Necron pursuing? Can they develop new philosophies?
Master Leutin may the god bless you with continued wisdom and heresey.
something something machine god, they seem motivated enough. just made me laugh too much
The original goal of the Necrontyr was to gain immortality..So that might be a possible end game for them. Gaining immortality whilst also preserving or reaquiring their souls. That could also lead to some sort of civil war like the horus heresy where one action wants to preserve their necrodermic form while the other wants to biotransfer in an organic form with a soul.
we can only imagine what it must be like to live without a soul. maybe the goal to be mortal again is the yearning to get their souls back. "live" without a soul might not be worth living is what they might have found out and are now trying to reverse that mistake.
I guess they could 'retcon' in that the low tier necrons actually do have their full consciousness in there somewhere, but it's almost entirely locked down like software or something. Or that the machinery used in the transference stored their original identities as a backup or... something. But yeah it's all quite unsatisfying and dumb.
Reading the twice deadking books, I get the feeling that reversing biotransference or any ultimate goal for that matter is just a vague consideration or a pretext to justify their actions and existence.
Let me explain. A important concept in real life philosophy is that life is precious, because it is finite. That is what makes every moment count. A necron is immortal. Sure, there life can be ended prematurely, but without disturbance they would live forever. Their bodies that is. They still have the mind of a mortal being for the most part. More capable in memory volume and computing power, but functually the same. In the TDK the necrons all seek either opsessions or stick hard to reach goals for themselves in order to not go insane. Reversing biotransference is a maybe unreachable goal that provides a shimmer of hope to their pointless exsistence. It is a noble cause to reclaim what has been taken from them by the betrayer. At the same time they abhore mortality and think of biology itself as unclean.
My point is: The Necron probably don't like to think about their "endgame" and the nature of their existence themselves, because there is either no good answer on what to do or worse: Logically speaking everything they might set as a goal is absolutely meaningless in the grand scheme of things given their infinite lifespan. This is a possible source of insanity and why a nebolous, far away fantasy may be preffered as it provides them hope for a brighter future and a purpose for which to exist and spend their attention and time.
They did leave that star, but they couldn't cure their super-cancer. That's why they made that deal.
Originally, what they really wanted was immortality AND a nice body, with a good brain. But they got only the first.
After throwing a huge tantrum, they went to sleep for ages and are now slowly awakening.
Still pissed off at everyone but can't even remember why, their tantrum continues.
Meanwhile, the Silent King is still trying to find a way to 'fix' all this.
Y'know, I am thinking: Necron are incorruptible by chaos, for they have no soul. But the War with the Men of Iron was just that: corruption of soulless machines. Does this mean that humanity had developed the technology to create souls and the Men of Iron had souls? what would this mean for the Necron, can they get souls?
I think that saying it's the end goal for ALL the dynasties is probably wrong. I suspect some are quite content with what they have and won't go back. The Silent Kinghas obsessed over his mistake for 60 million years, and so for HIM there's no choice, and Illuminor Szeras is following orders. But Orikan wants to ASCEND, he wants nothing to do with physicality at all, much less mortality.
The Destroyers dont agree with getting all fleshy and "life" again!
i realy want more Necron ans Eldar Dark eldar books to come out
My gripe, is that as much as I like the new models, I miss the translucent green tubes.
I think it's the perfect story for them, because it's an impossible goal. How does a thing that's dead become alive again? It can't; they are as futile as the Imperium. Or, based on what we see in the novels, they are fragmented and failing to such an extent that they can't even see how failed they are. They also don't cooperate well at all, because of their arrogance...when they're functioning at all. Their goal is absurd, and it's great that they have one.
The 40k universe is largely allegorical with many classical and Shakespearean themes. Because of this, the Necron require a place in the greater narrative as another holding one of moral characterizations or thematic stylizations. The other races play their parts, and the narrative of the Necrons required adjustment. Now it is one of futility against decay. In fact, you said it early in the video--they thought they could escape entropy (or that it would do its work for them), but they couldn't have been more wrong. 40k loves its ironies, and the Necron's transformed lore has fit in perfectly, especially after the book series and the Infinite and the Divine.