In short, games are actually designed to simulate great real life achievements while everything you do is actually completely meaningless. Oh my, we are so easily decieved. Your series really opened my eyes, thanks man.
Actually we can't begin to understand the work behind those games so no, we 're not easily decieved. And we can't really blame artwork for our problems. We just have to learn to understand and protect ourselves from falling into harmful patterns. They 're not to blame. We 're to finally level up in real life :)
@@abajama you make things meaningful or pointless. its up to you to create meaning in what you do. personally i think that yes, many things have great meaning in life. if you re having trouble finding meaning for yourself, i suggest you start watching Jordan Petersons videos. they helped me a great deal. wish you the best buddy
@@abajama Yes. It is. It is not only humans who perceive worth. However humans being complex, can find worth in various things animals cannot even dream of. To an animal, you're a god. Remember that. Most animals cannot even conceptualize your knowledge or power. That is how far the divide is. However, for yourself, how you see the world is how it is. So, change how you see it, an truly it will change. If that statment were not true, than all humans would be the same. Like a hive mind. But we're not.
@@7MikeKr7 while you are at it watch julien blanc on youtube. he teaches social skills and also has great lesson on increasing your level of happiness. I definitely feel happier applying his advice.
This makes a scary amount of sense. Think about MMO's how people strive to get the best gear and highest level. And when you do raids, you don't want to be the person who "just helped" you want to be the person who did the best in your role, to get that recognition. And the challenge, like he mentioned, is everlasting. So scary, I have gotten addicted to so many MMO games and I think I know why now haha. This video series is great!
Every competitive gamer should watch this series. I honestly learned so much about myself in the 30 minutes I spent watching these and intend to apply some of these practices to help alleviate myself from this addiction.
After 30 years of being a gamer from when I first got my Sega Megadrive I've finally found why I loved games soo much.... I almost want to cry when I think about the amount of hours I have put into games over the years... I could have mastered 3 or 4 different skills! Thank you for this eye opening series DR.
These videos need to reach people that need them. Dr K is more impactful than parents that never/hardly played video games, it's simply a stronger connection for the gamer to understand each other instead of being told to just stop playing.
Understanding the problem is the key to solving it! Thank you for explaining the neuroscience of addiction, very engaging. Comment this video and other ones on this channel so that more people see it! It really deserves awareness.
Thank you! By watching this video I have finally figured out why my life feels so empty. I realised not long ago that I am addicted to gaming and that I have been for the last 11 years. I always thought something about me was wrong but if I can begin to reset my brain to how it is supposed to percieve achievements and feelings then I think I'll finally be able to feel like I'm a part of the world and not some failure who can't reach even a sliver of their goals. I once again want to say thank you for telling the public about this. I am surprised that this knowledge isn't behind a big paywall or in some biased "get better" course. Thank you!
This has me thinking, everyone is most likely addicted, I"m a gamer, while my roommates are all here watching social media feeling braindead and not even enjoying it I'm fairly addicted to gaming, but I do get shit done when it needs, sports, my Ph.D., relationships. Moreover, this COVID outbreak really shows how the world today is one of many addictions, Escape games and you got youtube, social media, Porn a,d really hard to access positive outlets and hobbies
Our behavior is based on reward circuits, which unfortunately is heavily abused in the modern world industries, especially in entertainment. For this reason, it doesn't take much for an interest in something to become an addiction, which will only make more money for some company. Everyone, be conscious about what you devote your life to... Take care.
Like Dr. K said, it's only addiction if it affects your life negatively, if there are functions in your life that are suffering because you play too much. Otherwise, it's just a healthy hobby that you are passionate about.
capitalism 1.0. Almost all things nowadays try to make us dependent on them or at least try to make us want/need them. Its a conscience war between conscience and influence.
No, not everyone is addicted, that is the minority of people who are actually addicted and like this guy said himself as long as its not negetivly affecting an area of your life then your absolutly not addicted, and it it is affecting you negetivly then you might be addicted
I feel like another thing is the degree of triumph. Your example of getting a degree takes years of dedication, whereas beating a boss in Cuphead takes a few minutes. I'm learning a lot about my addiction with this series, but one thing I want to add is that what I do outside of gaming never feels like anything. I feel like this triumph circuit thing is something you're only supposed to feel rarely in life, but games let us feel it constantly.
And this is why competitive fighting games are set apart from these concepts and actually gives you a real satisfaction sense once you manage to beat some one of your skill level, nailing down that full tech/combo you have been practicing and archiving victory. Since that person wasn't designed to be beaten the level of satisfaction is way over the roof!!! Albeit it takes longer to reach this level of satisfaction with this type of games, and many ppl can't click with fighting games as easy because of this and thus not sticking with it a little longer to get to know it. Hence why the metal battle and the mind games can feel endlessly satisfying for hundreds and hundreds of hours, while allowing you to play these games for years whiteout ever getting tired of them. -But actually archiving wins(vs real ppl), does fells more substantial and meaningful(because u know that person has put in as much effort has you have as well) and thus boosting your confidence in real life to overcome real life challenges since you know know how strong your motivation and will power can be(cause properly learning a fighting game can be quite tough). Of course there might be some downsides to this too, but thats up to this guy to find out. xD Who has been doing a nice job so far, keep it up bro. PS: Not trying to shit on other games of course, just wanted to point this out since not many ppl don't ever play a fighting game long enough to reach a level where they get to understand/know this or what I mean.
Alucard I have nothing against fighting games, but these concepts apply to EVERY competitive game. What you described is pretty much the same for LoL, counter strike, or any video game with esports. I agree that it gives you more confidence in real life but it usually never gets applied. That confidence is moot since you’re stuck at a screen playing for hours on end and not really achieving what you want in life. Unless you can separate away from that screen or at least control the time you spend on the screen, then all that confidence goes out the window. Of course this point is useless if you can somehow use games to benefit you in real life (like making money by going pro, coaching, or making youtube content). But unless you do that, it’s not a wise investment of your time. On that note, I still play video games but I’ve controlled it to a point where I play a maximum of 2 hrs on my days off. It’s now just a relaxation/de-stressing tool instead of a “hobby” (I used to play 12-18 hrs a day)
I definitely think playing games competitively have to be approached a bit differently from what this series is addressing. If you want to get really good at the game, you actually have to work at it, almost like a job. The problem with this is that a very small amount of players actually get to benefit from all that hard work. For most people wanting to go pro, the odds are heavily stacked against them. You can definitely learn a lot about work ethic, underlying mechanics and systems if playing competitively. I did, but honestly once I learned about those I didn't really need gaming as much anymore and was able to apply those IRL. Gaming too long became a chore/boring, so I ended up limiting my play time. For casual players or less serious players gaming can be that quick fix to feel good and get addicted to.
50% true, because there is no real life reward, been playing FGs since I was 7 and now I am 32, genre is great and helps, but there is literally no real life rewards outside making a couple of friends here and there
This is so accurate. Then once you realize all games are made to be beaten by most people, you start applying self-imposed challenges. The only way I can feel triumph now is by making every game I play permadeath. Rather than simply quitting games, your brain will keep coming up with new ways access the triumph circuit and keep you hooked
This was me for a couple of years, and then I got into software development. Nowadays I only play games with an interesting plot when my old self would complain about them being too easy, and I only play on Sundays and weekday nights after work and studying.
You could violently insult everything I've ever known and loved and slap me across the face and I feel like I'd thank you. Idk why but you are so easy to listen to as a guide. Like , Uncle Iroh levels of irresistible wisdom.
I don't concider myself an addict even tho I play games 6-8 hours a day, but I do enjoy these videos, and find them really thought provoking and interesting.
I mean if you're already rich and already have a good love life and a healthy body then yea you might not be an addict but if your real life is crumbling then objectively you are.
"Triumph circuit" yes! I knew there was something about leveling up, ranking up or prestiging that effected my brain. And the game designers know this and created their games to be addictive. They're like drug pushers. In a healthy way, I find myself Trying new cooking rescipies and techniques in order to level up my cooking game. Its healthy because I cook for my family and we're together and they get to physically enjoy my work, my fun.
This is why Battle Royal's are the go to genre for all developers. The sense of achievement you get when you defeated all the other 100 players on the map is immense. Then game devs constantly balance matchmaking according to the players skill just to make sure you get a win here and there.
and here I am, telling myself that I do actually accomplish something by getting good at kaizo levels in SM64 because it will give me playtesting ability and design awareness for my own kaizos, and making my own kaizos will get me somewhere in life by giving me a wide pallette of game design experience. So am I affected by this curcuit? Yes. Do I see it as a problem? No. Is that a problem? Probably.
In this video Dr. K made the word "gamer", to mean (a person with) a mental disorder. And it probably is, because only now I realized how much it messed up my life (combined with anxiety/existential dread). Nothing from real world really makes me feel good enough, and I started to feel empty and more and more depressive. Now I'm at a point where I just want to die, to stop existing.
I wonder how does playing a musical instrument differ. Playing music is considered to be very beneficial to the brain and as I understand, there are many scientific studies that show this. But as an amateur musician who plays many different flutes and the frame drum, I find many similarities between drumming and games. Every time I practice, I get a little bit better, often in a quantifiable way (for example by increasing the speed or playing a new song without mistakes). And like he says at around 8:20 ("Games are designed to be beaten"), I feel learning an instrument is also an an activity where you're guaranteed to win if you practice. Unless you're trying to learn something that is way out of your league as a non-professional musician, like a concert, which requires more practice hours than you have free time within a day. But for easy songs, most people can succeed with practice. The main difference I can think of is that music requires much more effort than, say, slaying one monster with your sword in a video game, when in reality you're just moving your finger. However, both activities require intense focus.
I think the triumph in league is having your champion get fed enough through kills and farms until you can dominate everybody. Is this only with master yi players? That mid part of the game is the most exciting for me, far more than actually destroying the nexus.. It’s ironic how really dominating champs give chances and not finish when they actually could
This conclusion about games being "designed to be beaten" and thus make you feel good is something I realized a while ago. However, I've since been wrestling with an uncomfortable question that I can't answer (maybe you will address this in a future video I'm not sure, just commenting as I go along): if one enjoys gaming, and gaming can, by design, grant guaranteed access to positive feelings then, as long as one is able to meet their basic needs of food and shelter what is the actual impetus to stop gaming and focus on the real world. One could make the argument that gaming is "upgraded reality" in a sense, no? Of course at a gut level that feels wrong, it feels like there's supposed to be more to life that a person who gets their "reward circuit activation" from gaming is missing out on. But is there? I'm not sure.
What you say is correct. However, this mindset leads to mental/physical decline. As you said, your basic needs are met and you are in your happy bubble. Biologically speaking that means you are done with life and your system goes from growth to (gradually declining) homeostasis so you make room for the next generation. That is fine if you actually feel that your life has been fully lived and you can spend your end time in game world retirement. If you feel that there is more to life than what you have accomplished so far, then you need to push outside of the comfort zone and build/teach to make this place a better world. Over and over again until you grow tired of it and feel it's time to make space for the next generation. So it's something only you, yourself can answer. I've spent a lot of time with games and once they became empty I used them to study myself. From there I moved to meditation and realized myself that well that gaming kind of became irrelevant. That keeps my receptors fresh and pristine to enjoy the shit out of the hand full of outstanding games that get produced every one or two years and leave me to marvel at the ingenuity of the human race. It leaves me with much more appreciation for the form of art that accompanied me throughout my childhood. One looses his connection to the other senses and the subtler experiences of body and mind quite fast though, and that makes you miss out a lot about life unfortunately.
Oh and there is more out there. Much more. Must of these things are impossible to talk about, you can only experience them. But they come at a price, like everything in life. They demand practice and endurance and ultimately you always end up where you began, so again, you have to want it deeply to begin with. From my experience, I go with the elders since the dawn of mankind and say that the best experiences you will ever find on this plane, are all a byproduct of your devotion and service to all forms of life. Giving love, giving joy, giving care and attention to those in need (including yourself), watching life grow... There is no experience greater than that and I've had many that are inexpressible. But even the absolute peak experience will fade. And what keeps you going on the darkness, in times of decline and sickness is those that you love and that you are responsible for. They give the suffering it's worth. If that is too much for you, then I think gaming is a good way of gently gliding into the good night.
I've thought a lot about this too. It's not a trivial question. Why shouldn't I just play games until I retire when it makes me happy while my basic needs are covered. If this sentence was true in it's entirety and would remain true for the rest of my life, I would probably go for it. The problem is that truth in this statement suffers at a lot of points. So, I wouldn't recommend this to anyone and here is why: I mean, as someone watching this video I'm sure that most people aren't that happy anymore playing games/watching youtube all day. As Dr. Kanojia points out in this series the fun that is experience when playing a game wanes over time (since it messes with our reward circuitry) up to a point where you don't even know why you're playing. So in conclusion gaming is certainly fun, but not indefinitely. Moreover gaming can take more from your life than you'd reasonably want to. For instance as long as you're not swimming in money so much so that you can do whatever you desire you might have trouble doing your job which earns you the money which covers your basic needs. You might game late into the nights since it's very fun in contrast to your exhausting/boring job. You oversleep and get fired from your job because this wasn't the first time. Some people manage to play without it taking over other areas of their lives. I'm just saying that it could happen to anyone. Something that also derserves consideration here is Maslows hierarchy of needs (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs). When your basic needs are covered and you live in a safe country you'll reach for higher new level of needs above the aforementioned ones. Is gaming covering your need for esteem or let alone self actualization? If not, then you'll have to live with having desires that can never be fulfilled. Not a neat outlook. Lastly, a big problem that you've touched on for a bit is asking yourself the question 'isn't there supposed to be more to life' than just playing games, constantly flooding yourself with dopamin? A person that has been through a long gaming addiction has certainly asked him-/herself that question. I'm sure the question could arise from the lack of fun from gaming, but I believe it would be connected to societal expectations as well. People expect you to get a good job, get married, have a family and so on. When only gaming you might feel like you're missing out/falling behind your peers. Friends get married or finish their college degree while you're still doing the same thing since years. Even when you're content with what you have and what you're doing these expectations are more or less implanted into us to some degree. It will get hard to ignore them when you see the people around you moving on in life... All in all, it's just not working out and I think most gamers know this. That's why I and many other seek help here.
"what is the actual impetus to stop gaming and focus on the real world" Thats something u gotta answer for yourself. the problem isnt when u are happy to do just that. the problem is when you want to achieve something else but the gaming addiction wont let you.
IMO, you're not hurting anyone, so it would be perfectly acceptable to be just play games all day, as long as your needs are met. You also have to be content where you are I imagine, or else you would have an unhealthy relationship with gaming. It would suck to live your whole life thinking "I could have done more, but I played games all day instead, I regret it." If you're content with where you are however, maybe you wouldn't think this way, and you''d be fine. As for entrusting your "reward circuit activation" solely to game developers, I guess it also depends on how much you value the concepts of free will. It's called "game design" for a reason. 99% of your actions in a game are pre-ordained. I don't know about you, but I always feel a bit weird seeing someone else play an RPG. The "choices I made" are actually a pre-packaged set of choices that everyone who gets the game is given. Nothing is unique to you (yet, maybe at some point a game itself could automatically generate new quests for players... but that either hasn't happened, or it's not compelling content). This kind of defeats the whole evolutionary purpose of our reward circuits, which was incentivize achieving success in unknown environments. TLDR: There's no problem feeding your "reward circuits" through games instead of real-life achievements so long as you yourself genuinely don't see it as a problem.
Dark souls games in a nutshell for me :/ each challenge I give myself, like using only sorceries, pyros (I'm a melee guy at heart, so I dislike those playstyles) or SL1 playthrough etc. and eventually complete leaves me with a sense of satisfaction that is overwhelmed directly after with a feeling that there must be a harder challenge because the previous one wasn't good enough.
Damn Dr. K die only 6 times at dark souls boss. Me like 10-15 deaths. Btw thanks for this insightful information, I'm watching your playlist on binge a.k.a addicted lol :)
I'm more than thankful for your explanations and lections. I wanna change now. I understand how my brain works, but don't really know how to change my brains Triumph Circuit.
Games aren't the the only problem. Reality is. Release Reality 2 already, or at least some DLC. There's a reason for this mass exodus from reality and I feel like this touches on only the addicting aspects of games rather than the deeply disappointing realities of life and how games frequently address them.
The question is if climbing the mount everest does mean that much more? People do crazy shit to achieve meaning but in the end meaning is only found in true responsibility. Not fun though, that's hardly something you get when you strive for meaning and responsibility.
Sönke Schmidt yea but with climbing Mount Everest you do it like maybe once every couple of years? And it can actually benefit you in terms of health. These video games with false sense of triumph is literally at the tip of your fingertips. That’s how we get addicted, cause we can feel like we’re climbing Mount Everest every single day (but it makes us more fat sitting for hours on end)
@Marek Tužák Thing is that, none of that matters after some years from now. You might be rank 1-50 in a videogame, but after that game fades out and gets forgotten, so does the accomplishment in the virtual game world because you can't use that achievement anymore because to be honest people don't care anymore. Concrete achievements in the real world on the other hand are usually more respected. Some random examples: running a marathon or being in good physical shape, or getting yourself a degree, learning an instrument and making your own music or playing difficult pieces, building a business, writing a book... there's plenty I guess my point is that achievements in games don't matter after a while and it's hard to get respect for whatever you did 5-10 years ago, but it can feel good in the moment and sure ppl in competitive games, the players in your matches, give you respect for doing good. It's just more of just a short term reward for "being good or dominating at something".
@@basbas1758 It can benefit your health or it can kill you. Everest - and some other mountains - are littered with frozen corpses of those, who sought "meaningfull achievent". One thing that a lot of people i see here seem to not understand, is that any action in meatspace can lead to really painful and sometimes even deadly results. Sport can cripple you for life, seeking romance may put you in jail just because your sweetheart felt like falsely accusing you of rape, or can give you a deadly std, and worse of all, you can spent years trying to achieve something, and figure out that at the end of the day, it's not your thing at all. You will stand on top of the mountain of your choosing, nothing but jagged rocks, snow and howling wind around, and think "so this is it?", as the realization sets in, that you've wasted precious years of your life on something not satisfying at all. Video games, on the other hand, are low-risk in that regard. You pay very little price in real life for indulging in a video game, rather than taking risks for something that, at the end of the day, may be not at all worth it.
@@GurniHallek What you said could go with video games too... Sure there are some people that don't really care about real life achievements and just want happiness in any way they can get it (like in video games). But... what if after you spent all your youth playing video games (ignoring school, relationships, and other irl things) you stand on top of the mountain (of video games) and you realize that you've wasted precious years of your life playing 18 hours a day? So yea... video games aren't low-risk. They're all about the same. In fact, life in itself is so risky you don't get out of it alive.
OMG like if you ever seen that video of SK Gaming downing Kil'jaeden in BC where everyone loses their shit, it's exactly what he's talking about here. But then when you kind of take a step back and look at it on paper, IT'S LIKE IT DOESN'T MATTER. Which is kind of sad because it feels like it negates their high energy state when they downed that boss like it's somehow fake. But yet when you look at the bigger picture, it somewhat is fake. Like imagine the dopamine rush they all got when they saw him go down. Then imagine how that affected their brain circuitry afterwards. Who wouldn't keep raiding after that? But yet.... nothing in the real world around you would change.
You dont improve yourself by gaming... you improve at gaming. I was addicted to csgo and eventually got top rank (global) but that didnt improve me as a person, I was just good at a game. I suffered in real life because I played csgo alot. (harder for me to make friends, didnt want to hang out with family ex.)
@@davidharrison7825 that is you, I traveled to 5 countries, learned some english/portuguese, made friendand won money. the matter of fact is gaming is a tool, you can use to safe you or destroy you.
I do not think his story of the evolutionary biology of the Triumph Circuit is correct. It is quite crude actually. Many layman's stories about evolutionary biology always talk about predator and prey, foraging and hunting, etc. But the largest breakthroughs in anthropology in the 20th century actually showed us that the primary driving force for human evolution from Ape to Man was actually labor. That is, man is uniquely able to conceive of a creative task, and use his hands and tools to see the task to completion - that is, to bring something new into the world. This process of identifying a task, the challenge, and then bringing it to fruition, the achievement of something new, is far more fundamental to the evolution of man than simply venturing to new places for food. It was far more relevant to the day-to-day lives of early humans to do labor locally, to build up a village and a community, than it was for them to constantly seek out new places. This is why things like settlements were unique to humans, and it was settlements which eventually allowed for centralized civilization. The transition from Ape to Man was chiefly written by the unique position of labor in the human species, it was not written by the crude hunting and scavenging that all predators do. That is why the Triumph Circuit is unique to humans, and not nearly as strong in closely related Apes. Triumph is the psychological reward for labor. Labor is the driver of human proliferation and evolution.
Is the Triumph Circuit the same when competing multiplayer and rising in Rank? I am now 15 and iam very good at several games, wether it is a shooter or Moba Game (I don't play Singleplayer-Games), so the reason for me playing those games is, i adapt and understand really fast, it usually takes me 1 month to reach the 2nd highest Rank in a Shooter game, and I also am very high Ranked in a Moba Game, so my Satisfaction or better said my Triumph comes from winning and mechanically outperforming random people around the world. Games are basically just a thing I'm really good at. So how can i actually stop playing games, when the only thrive for me playing games is having fun when outperformin people and having that Victory Screen on my Pc showing up.
if you really are 15 yo and what you are saying is true then set yourself a goal to become a pro gamer and work towards that. That's a goal that has real life implications. But be careful and don't forget about other things in life that matter. The amount of people who can live out of gaming is not big.
Kuroh02 you know, i already thought about that, well who didn‘t as a kid.Though i still am. I was born in Germany and my whole family consists of only vietnamese people. I wouldn‘t get support from my family if i chose to become a pro gamer. Also i can‘t imagine how hard it would be to keep up in the top of the ladder. Every day you could be switched out with another newcomer. It can go from zero to hundred as fast as it can go from hundred to zero. Iam now in my last school year and i start working in 6 months. Once i graduate i get an education as a merchant specialized in car industry. I think iam kinda going too much in depth for a TH-cam comment, but well Gaming will only be part of my life as a hobby, nothing more (Btw streaming is not an option as well, our Internet is just too slow and my Pc can‘t handle it neither)
In short, games are actually designed to simulate great real life achievements while everything you do is actually completely meaningless. Oh my, we are so easily decieved. Your series really opened my eyes, thanks man.
Actually we can't begin to understand the work behind those games so no, we 're not easily decieved. And we can't really blame artwork for our problems. We just have to learn to understand and protect ourselves from falling into harmful patterns. They 're not to blame. We 're to finally level up in real life :)
@@7MikeKr7 is anything really meaningful?
@@abajama you make things meaningful or pointless. its up to you to create meaning in what you do. personally i think that yes, many things have great meaning in life. if you re having trouble finding meaning for yourself, i suggest you start watching Jordan Petersons videos. they helped me a great deal.
wish you the best buddy
@@abajama
Yes.
It is.
It is not only humans who perceive worth.
However humans being complex, can find worth in various things animals cannot even dream of.
To an animal, you're a god.
Remember that.
Most animals cannot even conceptualize your knowledge or power. That is how far the divide is.
However, for yourself, how you see the world is how it is.
So, change how you see it, an truly it will change.
If that statment were not true, than all humans would be the same. Like a hive mind.
But we're not.
@@7MikeKr7 while you are at it watch julien blanc on youtube. he teaches social skills and also has great lesson on increasing your level of happiness. I definitely feel happier applying his advice.
Dr K is actually a god at dark souls, only died 6 times before triumph
xd
This makes a scary amount of sense. Think about MMO's how people strive to get the best gear and highest level. And when you do raids, you don't want to be the person who "just helped" you want to be the person who did the best in your role, to get that recognition. And the challenge, like he mentioned, is everlasting. So scary, I have gotten addicted to so many MMO games and I think I know why now haha. This video series is great!
Every competitive gamer should watch this series. I honestly learned so much about myself in the 30 minutes I spent watching these and intend to apply some of these practices to help alleviate myself from this addiction.
After 30 years of being a gamer from when I first got my Sega Megadrive I've finally found why I loved games soo much.... I almost want to cry when I think about the amount of hours I have put into games over the years... I could have mastered 3 or 4 different skills! Thank you for this eye opening series DR.
These videos need to reach people that need them. Dr K is more impactful than parents that never/hardly played video games, it's simply a stronger connection for the gamer to understand each other instead of being told to just stop playing.
All your videos make sense to me
He hits home.. Never heard how I feel explained so clearly
Me too
Well, it’s his job.
Well you cant argue with science facts...
@@sambrani2649 You can. No argue, no progress in science.
Understanding the problem is the key to solving it! Thank you for explaining the neuroscience of addiction, very engaging.
Comment this video and other ones on this channel so that more people see it! It really deserves awareness.
My perfectionism is taking over my life and as someone with that issue I can't express enough how helpful this video was
Thank you! By watching this video I have finally figured out why my life feels so empty. I realised not long ago that I am addicted to gaming and that I have been for the last 11 years. I always thought something about me was wrong but if I can begin to reset my brain to how it is supposed to percieve achievements and feelings then I think I'll finally be able to feel like I'm a part of the world and not some failure who can't reach even a sliver of their goals. I once again want to say thank you for telling the public about this. I am surprised that this knowledge isn't behind a big paywall or in some biased "get better" course. Thank you!
"if you die 6 times on a dark souls boss"
me: death no. 48
You heard 6? I heard 60. 60 makes a lot more sense to me.
I think I’m getting addicted to watching this guy’s video series...
I needed this when I was 18, and my parents needed to see it then as well.
This has me thinking, everyone is most likely addicted, I"m a gamer, while my roommates are all here watching social media feeling braindead and not even enjoying it
I'm fairly addicted to gaming, but I do get shit done when it needs, sports, my Ph.D., relationships.
Moreover, this COVID outbreak really shows how the world today is one of many addictions, Escape games and you got youtube, social media, Porn a,d really hard to access positive outlets and hobbies
Our behavior is based on reward circuits, which unfortunately is heavily abused in the modern world industries, especially in entertainment. For this reason, it doesn't take much for an interest in something to become an addiction, which will only make more money for some company.
Everyone, be conscious about what you devote your life to... Take care.
Like Dr. K said, it's only addiction if it affects your life negatively, if there are functions in your life that are suffering because you play too much. Otherwise, it's just a healthy hobby that you are passionate about.
capitalism 1.0. Almost all things nowadays try to make us dependent on them or at least try to make us want/need them. Its a conscience war between conscience and influence.
No, not everyone is addicted, that is the minority of people who are actually addicted and like this guy said himself as long as its not negetivly affecting an area of your life then your absolutly not addicted, and it it is affecting you negetivly then you might be addicted
I feel like another thing is the degree of triumph. Your example of getting a degree takes years of dedication, whereas beating a boss in Cuphead takes a few minutes. I'm learning a lot about my addiction with this series, but one thing I want to add is that what I do outside of gaming never feels like anything. I feel like this triumph circuit thing is something you're only supposed to feel rarely in life, but games let us feel it constantly.
Yeah I think you likely hit the nail on the head here. Excellent comment.
And this is why competitive fighting games are set apart from these concepts and actually gives you a real satisfaction sense once you manage to beat some one of your skill level, nailing down that full tech/combo you have been practicing and archiving victory. Since that person wasn't designed to be beaten the level of satisfaction is way over the roof!!! Albeit it takes longer to reach this level of satisfaction with this type of games, and many ppl can't click with fighting games as easy because of this and thus not sticking with it a little longer to get to know it. Hence why the metal battle and the mind games can feel endlessly satisfying for hundreds and hundreds of hours, while allowing you to play these games for years whiteout ever getting tired of them.
-But actually archiving wins(vs real ppl), does fells more substantial and meaningful(because u know that person has put in as much effort has you have as well) and thus boosting your confidence in real life to overcome real life challenges since you know know how strong your motivation and will power can be(cause properly learning a fighting game can be quite tough).
Of course there might be some downsides to this too, but thats up to this guy to find out. xD Who has been doing a nice job so far, keep it up bro.
PS: Not trying to shit on other games of course, just wanted to point this out since not many ppl don't ever play a fighting game long enough to reach a level where they get to understand/know this or what I mean.
Am reached top20 on brawlhalla.
Can relate.
Alucard I have nothing against fighting games, but these concepts apply to EVERY competitive game. What you described is pretty much the same for LoL, counter strike, or any video game with esports. I agree that it gives you more confidence in real life but it usually never gets applied. That confidence is moot since you’re stuck at a screen playing for hours on end and not really achieving what you want in life. Unless you can separate away from that screen or at least control the time you spend on the screen, then all that confidence goes out the window.
Of course this point is useless if you can somehow use games to benefit you in real life (like making money by going pro, coaching, or making youtube content). But unless you do that, it’s not a wise investment of your time.
On that note, I still play video games but I’ve controlled it to a point where I play a maximum of 2 hrs on my days off. It’s now just a relaxation/de-stressing tool instead of a “hobby” (I used to play 12-18 hrs a day)
I definitely think playing games competitively have to be approached a bit differently from what this series is addressing. If you want to get really good at the game, you actually have to work at it, almost like a job. The problem with this is that a very small amount of players actually get to benefit from all that hard work. For most people wanting to go pro, the odds are heavily stacked against them. You can definitely learn a lot about work ethic, underlying mechanics and systems if playing competitively. I did, but honestly once I learned about those I didn't really need gaming as much anymore and was able to apply those IRL. Gaming too long became a chore/boring, so I ended up limiting my play time.
For casual players or less serious players gaming can be that quick fix to feel good and get addicted to.
딸기우유 Yep, I agree
50% true, because there is no real life reward, been playing FGs since I was 7 and now I am 32, genre is great and helps, but there is literally no real life rewards outside making a couple of friends here and there
This is so accurate. Then once you realize all games are made to be beaten by most people, you start applying self-imposed challenges. The only way I can feel triumph now is by making every game I play permadeath. Rather than simply quitting games, your brain will keep coming up with new ways access the triumph circuit and keep you hooked
This was me for a couple of years, and then I got into software development. Nowadays I only play games with an interesting plot when my old self would complain about them being too easy, and I only play on Sundays and weekday nights after work and studying.
You could violently insult everything I've ever known and loved and slap me across the face and I feel like I'd thank you. Idk why but you are so easy to listen to as a guide. Like , Uncle Iroh levels of irresistible wisdom.
I don't concider myself an addict even tho I play games 6-8 hours a day, but I do enjoy these videos, and find them really thought provoking and interesting.
I mean if you're already rich and already have a good love life and a healthy body then yea you might not be an addict but if your real life is crumbling then objectively you are.
dude literally trivializes evolution. pure gold. but, in the end, it's good advice he has to offer, i can't find a fault with how he wraps up.
Damn. This definitely accomplished its goal. I was always aware of this on some level, but highlighting it so plainly really drives the point home.
So all through school I never felt the difference between a C on a test and an A so i never really worked for it. Now i know why...
lol same... in college I purposely shot for Cs as well... least work possible to get by! sign me up!
This is loads better than any Ted talk on the topic
"Triumph circuit" yes! I knew there was something about leveling up, ranking up or prestiging that effected my brain. And the game designers know this and created their games to be addictive. They're like drug pushers.
In a healthy way, I find myself Trying new cooking rescipies and techniques in order to level up my cooking game. Its healthy because I cook for my family and we're together and they get to physically enjoy my work, my fun.
These videos easily apply to smoking weed too. Great insights.
understanding all these fine knowledge is good and all, doing it is extremely hard
Thank you DR.K you help me safe my life from this addiction.
Wow, I’m so glad I found these videos. I’ve been thinking about this stuff for a while now.
Wish i found this earlier. I had to figure most of this, withou the scientific background, on my own and that took time.
The line that says games are actually designed to be beaten is an eye opener.
whereas real life is rigged
This is why Battle Royal's are the go to genre for all developers. The sense of achievement you get when you defeated all the other 100 players on the map is immense. Then game devs constantly balance matchmaking according to the players skill just to make sure you get a win here and there.
It's been years since I've felt this feeling, but it's the best.
haha this why I play games, I always knew they were a drug, but all seriousness this guy is great
Thanks doc, you've done so much for me.
I have to prepare for a debate about the pros and cons of video gaming. Thank you for helping me out!
Great points about the triumph circuit. I didn’t know about it.
Going over each of these circuits is essential to finding what specific you can do in real life instead of gaming
Not a gamer but I figured this out a long time ago as the game awards you and you move up in rank thus you feel you have accomplished something.
3:18 So that's why I was obsessed with the division and the dark zone when it first came out
This video literally made my day, thanks a ton
I get it. I'm a failure in real life seeking feel goods from artificial means. Actually, that sounds about right.
I remember getting the Death's Demise title in World of Warcraft only to realize I couldn't really use that to pick up girls at a bar :'(
depends on who the girl is :D
Hope this series gets more visibility
Just found about your Chanel... Im blown away amazing
Well damn now my in game achievements feel invalidated lmfao.
it is what it is
you are doing very important work, thank you. This Problem is subtle yet very harmful for the society.
this series was just too interesting.
This needs to get to more people
I'm a DotA player and i joke/meme with my brother that "Doto is life", but holy shit it was in a way trueeeeeeeeee.
and here I am, telling myself that I do actually accomplish something by getting good at kaizo levels in SM64 because it will give me playtesting ability and design awareness for my own kaizos, and making my own kaizos will get me somewhere in life by giving me a wide pallette of game design experience. So am I affected by this curcuit? Yes. Do I see it as a problem? No. Is that a problem? Probably.
commenting for the TH-cam algorithm
In this video Dr. K made the word "gamer", to mean (a person with) a mental disorder. And it probably is, because only now I realized how much it messed up my life (combined with anxiety/existential dread). Nothing from real world really makes me feel good enough, and I started to feel empty and more and more depressive. Now I'm at a point where I just want to die, to stop existing.
Nothing is forcing you to game that is on your own willpower.
I wonder how does playing a musical instrument differ. Playing music is considered to be very beneficial to the brain and as I understand, there are many scientific studies that show this. But as an amateur musician who plays many different flutes and the frame drum, I find many similarities between drumming and games.
Every time I practice, I get a little bit better, often in a quantifiable way (for example by increasing the speed or playing a new song without mistakes).
And like he says at around 8:20 ("Games are designed to be beaten"), I feel learning an instrument is also an an activity where you're guaranteed to win if you practice. Unless you're trying to learn something that is way out of your league as a non-professional musician, like a concert, which requires more practice hours than you have free time within a day. But for easy songs, most people can succeed with practice.
The main difference I can think of is that music requires much more effort than, say, slaying one monster with your sword in a video game, when in reality you're just moving your finger. However, both activities require intense focus.
I think the triumph in league is having your champion get fed enough through kills and farms until you can dominate everybody. Is this only with master yi players?
That mid part of the game is the most exciting for me, far more than actually destroying the nexus.. It’s ironic how really dominating champs give chances and not finish when they actually could
Dr. K: “All the games are designed to be beaten by most people, otherwise they wouldn’t sell”
Developers of Darkest Dungeon:🗿🗿🗿
Excellent
Reached Iron 3... Triumph circuit *_activated_*
I felt more accomplished when I reached diamond rank in Overwatch than when I got a university degree. I'm screwed.
This playlist is gooood
This conclusion about games being "designed to be beaten" and thus make you feel good is something I realized a while ago. However, I've since been wrestling with an uncomfortable question that I can't answer (maybe you will address this in a future video I'm not sure, just commenting as I go along): if one enjoys gaming, and gaming can, by design, grant guaranteed access to positive feelings then, as long as one is able to meet their basic needs of food and shelter what is the actual impetus to stop gaming and focus on the real world. One could make the argument that gaming is "upgraded reality" in a sense, no? Of course at a gut level that feels wrong, it feels like there's supposed to be more to life that a person who gets their "reward circuit activation" from gaming is missing out on. But is there? I'm not sure.
What you say is correct. However, this mindset leads to mental/physical decline. As you said, your basic needs are met and you are in your happy bubble. Biologically speaking that means you are done with life and your system goes from growth to (gradually declining) homeostasis so you make room for the next generation.
That is fine if you actually feel that your life has been fully lived and you can spend your end time in game world retirement. If you feel that there is more to life than what you have accomplished so far, then you need to push outside of the comfort zone and build/teach to make this place a better world. Over and over again until you grow tired of it and feel it's time to make space for the next generation.
So it's something only you, yourself can answer. I've spent a lot of time with games and once they became empty I used them to study myself. From there I moved to meditation and realized myself that well that gaming kind of became irrelevant. That keeps my receptors fresh and pristine to enjoy the shit out of the hand full of outstanding games that get produced every one or two years and leave me to marvel at the ingenuity of the human race. It leaves me with much more appreciation for the form of art that accompanied me throughout my childhood.
One looses his connection to the other senses and the subtler experiences of body and mind quite fast though, and that makes you miss out a lot about life unfortunately.
Oh and there is more out there. Much more. Must of these things are impossible to talk about, you can only experience them. But they come at a price, like everything in life. They demand practice and endurance and ultimately you always end up where you began, so again, you have to want it deeply to begin with.
From my experience, I go with the elders since the dawn of mankind and say that the best experiences you will ever find on this plane, are all a byproduct of your devotion and service to all forms of life. Giving love, giving joy, giving care and attention to those in need (including yourself), watching life grow...
There is no experience greater than that and I've had many that are inexpressible. But even the absolute peak experience will fade. And what keeps you going on the darkness, in times of decline and sickness is those that you love and that you are responsible for. They give the suffering it's worth.
If that is too much for you, then I think gaming is a good way of gently gliding into the good night.
I've thought a lot about this too. It's not a trivial question. Why shouldn't I just play games until I retire when it makes me happy while my basic needs are covered. If this sentence was true in it's entirety and would remain true for the rest of my life, I would probably go for it. The problem is that truth in this statement suffers at a lot of points. So, I wouldn't recommend this to anyone and here is why:
I mean, as someone watching this video I'm sure that most people aren't that happy anymore playing games/watching youtube all day. As Dr. Kanojia points out in this series the fun that is experience when playing a game wanes over time (since it messes with our reward circuitry) up to a point where you don't even know why you're playing. So in conclusion gaming is certainly fun, but not indefinitely.
Moreover gaming can take more from your life than you'd reasonably want to. For instance as long as you're not swimming in money so much so that you can do whatever you desire you might have trouble doing your job which earns you the money which covers your basic needs. You might game late into the nights since it's very fun in contrast to your exhausting/boring job. You oversleep and get fired from your job because this wasn't the first time. Some people manage to play without it taking over other areas of their lives. I'm just saying that it could happen to anyone.
Something that also derserves consideration here is Maslows hierarchy of needs (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs). When your basic needs are covered and you live in a safe country you'll reach for higher new level of needs above the aforementioned ones. Is gaming covering your need for esteem or let alone self actualization? If not, then you'll have to live with having desires that can never be fulfilled. Not a neat outlook.
Lastly, a big problem that you've touched on for a bit is asking yourself the question 'isn't there supposed to be more to life' than just playing games, constantly flooding yourself with dopamin? A person that has been through a long gaming addiction has certainly asked him-/herself that question. I'm sure the question could arise from the lack of fun from gaming, but I believe it would be connected to societal expectations as well. People expect you to get a good job, get married, have a family and so on. When only gaming you might feel like you're missing out/falling behind your peers. Friends get married or finish their college degree while you're still doing the same thing since years. Even when you're content with what you have and what you're doing these expectations are more or less implanted into us to some degree. It will get hard to ignore them when you see the people around you moving on in life...
All in all, it's just not working out and I think most gamers know this. That's why I and many other seek help here.
"what is the actual impetus to stop gaming and focus on the real world" Thats something u gotta answer for yourself. the problem isnt when u are happy to do just that. the problem is when you want to achieve something else but the gaming addiction wont let you.
IMO, you're not hurting anyone, so it would be perfectly acceptable to be just play games all day, as long as your needs are met. You also have to be content where you are I imagine, or else you would have an unhealthy relationship with gaming. It would suck to live your whole life thinking "I could have done more, but I played games all day instead, I regret it." If you're content with where you are however, maybe you wouldn't think this way, and you''d be fine.
As for entrusting your "reward circuit activation" solely to game developers, I guess it also depends on how much you value the concepts of free will. It's called "game design" for a reason. 99% of your actions in a game are pre-ordained. I don't know about you, but I always feel a bit weird seeing someone else play an RPG. The "choices I made" are actually a pre-packaged set of choices that everyone who gets the game is given. Nothing is unique to you (yet, maybe at some point a game itself could automatically generate new quests for players... but that either hasn't happened, or it's not compelling content). This kind of defeats the whole evolutionary purpose of our reward circuits, which was incentivize achieving success in unknown environments.
TLDR: There's no problem feeding your "reward circuits" through games instead of real-life achievements so long as you yourself genuinely don't see it as a problem.
More people need to see this... Especially Leauge of Legends players... Toxic game...
Wow that's awesome man
super dope content
And now I'm motivated to workout again
this dude spitting facts
ZERO downvotes! No less than this video deserves :D
Insightful
amazing work
This needs to be spread.
fascinating.
Dark souls games in a nutshell for me :/
each challenge I give myself, like using only sorceries, pyros (I'm a melee guy at heart, so I dislike those playstyles) or SL1 playthrough etc. and eventually complete leaves me with a sense of satisfaction that is overwhelmed directly after with a feeling that there must be a harder challenge because the previous one wasn't good enough.
Damn Dr. K die only 6 times at dark souls boss. Me like 10-15 deaths.
Btw thanks for this insightful information, I'm watching your playlist on binge a.k.a addicted lol :)
God, your examples are so dark. 1st cancer 2nd war 😁😂
I'm a 40 year old and not sure I have a triumph circuit. Just a relief circuit.
great video sir
Legend.
*mind blown*
I'm more than thankful for your explanations and lections. I wanna change now. I understand how my brain works, but don't really know how to change my brains Triumph Circuit.
It's amazing 😍
Bro should start streaming, bro’s got a lot to say🧐💪😤😤
commenting for youtube algorythm like the other guy somewhere in the comments so that this reaches more people
great video!
Nothing really gets me going quite like playing League with my friends and smurfing on kids
yes
@Marek Tužák eh. not true, rather practice those irelia/azir combos on lower elo than against challenger players,
great
Games aren't the the only problem. Reality is. Release Reality 2 already, or at least some DLC. There's a reason for this mass exodus from reality and I feel like this touches on only the addicting aspects of games rather than the deeply disappointing realities of life and how games frequently address them.
Comment for youtube algorithm 💜
same like gambling, only you are not loosing money
i was doing onyxia while listening to this :P
i don't rly have this triumph thingy. i always try to avoid difficult things :/
Apparently this affects the TH-cam algorithm. Alrightyyyy woooo
So basically, this precisely like the Jungian hero myth?
yes
Downing a hard Mythic difficulty boss... getting rank 1 DPS parse on a fight... feels fucking amazing, but doesn't actually mean shit in life lol
The question is if climbing the mount everest does mean that much more?
People do crazy shit to achieve meaning but in the end meaning is only found in true responsibility. Not fun though, that's hardly something you get when you strive for meaning and responsibility.
Sönke Schmidt yea but with climbing Mount Everest you do it like maybe once every couple of years? And it can actually benefit you in terms of health. These video games with false sense of triumph is literally at the tip of your fingertips. That’s how we get addicted, cause we can feel like we’re climbing Mount Everest every single day (but it makes us more fat sitting for hours on end)
@Marek Tužák Thing is that, none of that matters after some years from now. You might be rank 1-50 in a videogame, but after that game fades out and gets forgotten, so does the accomplishment in the virtual game world because you can't use that achievement anymore because to be honest people don't care anymore. Concrete achievements in the real world on the other hand are usually more respected. Some random examples: running a marathon or being in good physical shape, or getting yourself a degree, learning an instrument and making your own music or playing difficult pieces, building a business, writing a book... there's plenty
I guess my point is that achievements in games don't matter after a while and it's hard to get respect for whatever you did 5-10 years ago, but it can feel good in the moment and sure ppl in competitive games, the players in your matches, give you respect for doing good. It's just more of just a short term reward for "being good or dominating at something".
@@basbas1758 It can benefit your health or it can kill you. Everest - and some other mountains - are littered with frozen corpses of those, who sought "meaningfull achievent". One thing that a lot of people i see here seem to not understand, is that any action in meatspace can lead to really painful and sometimes even deadly results. Sport can cripple you for life, seeking romance may put you in jail just because your sweetheart felt like falsely accusing you of rape, or can give you a deadly std, and worse of all, you can spent years trying to achieve something, and figure out that at the end of the day, it's not your thing at all. You will stand on top of the mountain of your choosing, nothing but jagged rocks, snow and howling wind around, and think "so this is it?", as the realization sets in, that you've wasted precious years of your life on something not satisfying at all. Video games, on the other hand, are low-risk in that regard. You pay very little price in real life for indulging in a video game, rather than taking risks for something that, at the end of the day, may be not at all worth it.
@@GurniHallek What you said could go with video games too... Sure there are some people that don't really care about real life achievements and just want happiness in any way they can get it (like in video games). But... what if after you spent all your youth playing video games (ignoring school, relationships, and other irl things) you stand on top of the mountain (of video games) and you realize that you've wasted precious years of your life playing 18 hours a day? So yea... video games aren't low-risk. They're all about the same. In fact, life in itself is so risky you don't get out of it alive.
OMG like if you ever seen that video of SK Gaming downing Kil'jaeden in BC where everyone loses their shit, it's exactly what he's talking about here. But then when you kind of take a step back and look at it on paper, IT'S LIKE IT DOESN'T MATTER. Which is kind of sad because it feels like it negates their high energy state when they downed that boss like it's somehow fake. But yet when you look at the bigger picture, it somewhat is fake. Like imagine the dopamine rush they all got when they saw him go down. Then imagine how that affected their brain circuitry afterwards. Who wouldn't keep raiding after that? But yet.... nothing in the real world around you would change.
This does not apply to me because I suck at gaming but is very educational
commenting for the youtube algorithmm
what happened when you win a videogame tournament and you get a real world reward? or when you improve yourself by gamming?
You dont improve yourself by gaming... you improve at gaming. I was addicted to csgo and eventually got top rank (global) but that didnt improve me as a person, I was just good at a game. I suffered in real life because I played csgo alot. (harder for me to make friends, didnt want to hang out with family ex.)
@@davidharrison7825 that is you, I traveled to 5 countries, learned some english/portuguese, made friendand won money.
the matter of fact is gaming is a tool, you can use to safe you or destroy you.
I do not think his story of the evolutionary biology of the Triumph Circuit is correct. It is quite crude actually. Many layman's stories about evolutionary biology always talk about predator and prey, foraging and hunting, etc. But the largest breakthroughs in anthropology in the 20th century actually showed us that the primary driving force for human evolution from Ape to Man was actually labor. That is, man is uniquely able to conceive of a creative task, and use his hands and tools to see the task to completion - that is, to bring something new into the world. This process of identifying a task, the challenge, and then bringing it to fruition, the achievement of something new, is far more fundamental to the evolution of man than simply venturing to new places for food. It was far more relevant to the day-to-day lives of early humans to do labor locally, to build up a village and a community, than it was for them to constantly seek out new places. This is why things like settlements were unique to humans, and it was settlements which eventually allowed for centralized civilization. The transition from Ape to Man was chiefly written by the unique position of labor in the human species, it was not written by the crude hunting and scavenging that all predators do. That is why the Triumph Circuit is unique to humans, and not nearly as strong in closely related Apes. Triumph is the psychological reward for labor. Labor is the driver of human proliferation and evolution.
Is the Triumph Circuit the same when competing multiplayer and rising in Rank?
I am now 15 and iam very good at several games, wether it is a shooter or Moba Game (I don't play Singleplayer-Games), so the reason for me playing those games is, i adapt and understand really fast, it usually takes me 1 month to reach the 2nd highest Rank in a Shooter game, and I also am very high Ranked in a Moba Game, so my Satisfaction or better said my Triumph comes from winning and mechanically outperforming random people around the world. Games are basically just a thing I'm really good at. So how can i actually stop playing games, when the only thrive for me playing games is having fun when outperformin people and having that Victory Screen on my Pc showing up.
if you really are 15 yo and what you are saying is true then set yourself a goal to become a pro gamer and work towards that. That's a goal that has real life implications. But be careful and don't forget about other things in life that matter. The amount of people who can live out of gaming is not big.
Kuroh02 you know, i already thought about that, well who didn‘t as a kid.Though i still am.
I was born in Germany and my whole family consists of only vietnamese people.
I wouldn‘t get support from my family if i chose to become a pro gamer.
Also i can‘t imagine how hard it would be to keep up in the top of the ladder. Every day you could be switched out with another newcomer.
It can go from zero to hundred as fast as it can go from hundred to zero.
Iam now in my last school year and i start working in 6 months. Once i graduate i get an education as a merchant specialized in car industry.
I think iam kinda going too much in depth for a TH-cam comment, but well
Gaming will only be part of my life as a hobby, nothing more
(Btw streaming is not an option as well, our Internet is just too slow and my Pc can‘t handle it neither)