Peasants and light cav both have a special role that’s outside of combat. If you’re facing an army without cav, one unit of light cav sitting behind their army just chasing people down will double your kills in a battle. Just don’t use them on nonrouting units
Well, I use em to harass skirmishers, and to hammer a near routing enemy unit. More than once they have given their lives by preventing a powerful heavy cav and inf charge I really didn't want to take.
I'm gonna share a secret that is going to blow your mind. Ctarafacts carry two melee weapons. Just like you can force archers to attack in melee holding alt (the mouse icon will change from bow to sword), you can have these two units use their alternative melee weapons (hold ALT key when ordering them to attack). For Catriphacts these are maces that IIRC have the same stats but that have "Armor Piercing" tag that ignores half of enemy armor making them shred through heavily armored units. Egyptian Desert Axe cavalery is underrated too. They also have "Armor Piercing" tag that makes them surprisingly effective and cost-effective against heavier units. Both of these are the only cavalery with Armor-Piercing tag. Other notable units with that tag are Chosen Axemen and all Roman melee units thrown pilas. Test Axe cavalery at the cost-equivalent, for example 2 Axe Cavalery vs 1 Catriphacts, and compare it to other similiar cavalery.
Add chosen swordsmen to the list, they beat Spartans 1v1 if charged with warcry and they are almost on par with urbans assuming you charge into them and don't allow urbans to use their pilla.
Thanks for the comment. Yea, I have noticed that later. Some unit just wrecked Equites (was it Chosen Archers) and then Roman Cav wrecked it in turn :)
Head Hurlers from Britannia should be ranked higher. The effect they have on demoralizing is quite substantial+they are effective at killing generals and heavy infantry from the romans, which can be hard playing as britannia.
One advantage over using British heavy chariots over your general's guard is you don't have to worry about the sudden death of your general. Of course this is a factor with all general's bodyguards, but it's particularly pronounced with chariot generals who can get themselves into horrible trouble quickly. The Germanic spear warband is like starting with tanks in 1914; the perfect (if primitive) counter for the time. They get a phalanx at the start of the game when most of their immediate rivals are running around with warbands and light cavalry. They do absolutely dreadfully if they come out of formation though, and they are extremely difficult to use in sieges. The skirmisher units are worth keeping on hand for sieges. They can be used to draw the enemy out from the center where they can be routed or quickly surrounded. That alone makes them 'if you cannot have better' in my opinion as they at least have a role. You can use pila instead if you're the Romans or Spanish, but they have shorter range and enemies may be able to park somewhere on a large square that the shorter ranged pila can't reach. Having just one skirmisher unit can save you from a brutal slugging match that takes out a chunk of your army.
Round shield cavalry are underatted. I've used swarms of them to charge phalanx troops, legionnaires, heavy infantry, even heavy cav. They rinse through any skirmisher units, and if you surround a heavy a phalanx and hit repeatedly, it'll break. They are one of the few units that can catch horse archers or skirmisher cavalary. Now, they do die easily much more than heavier cav, but they are less expensive, easier to train and they are SUPER FAST. I would put them as join the legions. I've kept as units for Carthage well into late game and they've done a great job. Stack 4-6 and swarm the battle map with them, totally worth it.
I think most Rome Total War unit tier lists need a space for "circumstantial" units, like druids or chariots. They are very good at some moments, while they perform some roles horribly. They are not good or bad overall, but designed for special and concrete circumstances.
@@qualityoldgames7721true! Seleucid charriots are pure cheese for fighting the romans, completely nuking their armies easily, but when faced with egyptians, they suck.
I think someting that should effect their tier is how they interact with the faction as a whole. For example, for Gothic Cavalry, it means you now have to choose between gothic cavalry which are expensive and take multiple turns to do what the noble cavalry do cheaply. Or the Berserkers which are just an absolute wrecking crew. Or for example the same unit on one faction vs another due to building differences, case in point. The same cavalry on one faction might be stronger on another because of building giving them exp or weapon or armor bonuses.
Thanks for the very good an interesting points. Imo the regarding the first, Spartan Hoplites, First Cohorts, and Elephants suffer from quite severe requirements. In my gameplays I usually specialize a city to certain unit type (infantry, cav or missile). It might be because of that I did not take what you say too much into account. The second one, I certainly could have considered more :)
I think the Bull Warriors should be put in top tier. Not only do they have two hitpoints which is nice but they have one of the highest damaging javalins in the game. Completely outdoing even the urban cohorts at range and allowing them to go toe to toe with them. As such they are significantly stronger when skirmishing rather than being in battle where their stats are lower.
Thanks for the comment. I agree that their javelins are good and their 2 HPs is just great. Additionally, the building requirements are quite easy for them. Perhaps they should be higher :)
they lose to chosen swordsmen assuming you charge the swordsmen with warcry on, and they don't get to throw their javelins. multiple hitpoints are not as good as people think.
@@jonsnow7092 Warcry isn't that good of an ability since the moment you see it you can just kite the unit that has warcry till it runs out and multiple hitpoints are actually really important in a game where if an attack lands on a target they will typically die in one hit.
Hoplites can rule the world if given flank protection and ranged like peltasts, me personally I try to make the best heavy peltasts and use them like hastati when I can
Looks like a sound strategy. Agreed on that. And those Heavy peltasts can really act as a decent light infantry after they have used their javelins :) Thanks for the comment.
@@qualityoldgames7721 see thats what i mean haha, they're just slower equites they dont deserve the heavy cav status . the thing i pointed out bugged me abt the game, not the list
Round shield cavalery being below equites and greek cavalery is a clear error. Round shield is 7/10/4 (for 330) Equites are 6/12/5 (for 420) Greek cavalery is 6/8/5 (for 330) They are pretty decent.
@@qualityoldgames7721 and same with Long-shield cavalry : they are the heavy-lifters of Carthage's early game, and you can win whole campaigns with just these guys + They are so cheap ! (They have good Morale, good stamina, and they counter all the rosters you will be fighting early like Numidia Spain and Rome).
I respect your list and your opinion, i wouldn't put it this way purely because a battle requires an army that can perform all duties, i.e. all arms, so you need missile, light infantry, heavy infantry, light cavalry, medium cavalry and heavy cavalry. missile units funnel or separate any unit they attack. light infantry break up infantry formations and by you artillery time to bombard the enemy. heavy infantry smash light cavalry scout and harass missile units medium cavalry harass missile units and mop up units that are fleeing as well as flank infantry Heavy cavalry are shock troops who can open formations of break the resistance of high morale units. A lot of the units you've marked low have specific roles that they are elite at, take the Onager for example, in a siege it can reduce causalities by taking out towers and gates, it can also inflict heavy causalities to a unit on a wall its just destroyed and cut them off if your infantry are climbing a tower.
Thanks for the detailed comment. Fully agreed on that the army composition and combined arms affect things. At the same time, there are quite a few battles where there are no niches for some units and they are just bad in other situations. But e.g. regarding Onagers in siege battles, agreed to a degree ;D
@qualityoldgames7721 As soon as I wrote my comment, I thought, you can use the Onager to sniper the enemy general as well. That destroys the enemies morale.
i think Gothic Cavalry should be way higher as they are the best barbarian cavalry in the game. same quality as late warlord bodyguard, just with 1 HP. this is similar to the relation between praetorian cavalry and roman armored general.
@@qualityoldgames7721 a bit. for the best barbarian cav in the game, its EASILY worth it. noble cav and barbarian cav are shit in comparison. its like preferring to train roman cavalry instead of praetorian cavalry because of the 2 turn recruitment time...makes no sense.
Thanks for the comment. In battles the Cappadocians have swords as secondary weapons instead of maces. Imo they also performed quite a bit worse in cavalry test tournament than Cataphracts. :) (If I remember my reasoning correct)
You actually forgot a unit, the Armenian Legionaires. They've got the same stats as the Numidian ones, though with slightly better morale. It's one of the units, along with the cataphract archers and the phalanx guys, who let Armenia absolutely dominate Parthia if you can live that long.
Thanks for the comment. Perhaps they should have been a separate entity. I kind of thought that they are included in the Numidian ones because of the same stats :)
@@qualityoldgames7721 No problem! I figured as much, although I think contextually they're better than the Numidians because they can be so much more dynamic insofar as the Armenian roster is stouter and so you don't have to rely on them as much for everything. Funnily enough, the only balance change the remaster specifically mentions as doing to troops is that the Armenian late infantry, presumably the legionaries and the phalanx dudes, have decent buff to their morale. Why this change, and only this change, was made is unclear to me, but is a nice little bonus to the already strong Armenian roster, especially because it really helps bolster them against the Selucid and Egyptian chariot morale debuffs.
But where do the infamous Yubtseb elephants rank? The first time i found them was when Athens revolted with a gladiator revolt and they got 2 units of them and shreded my legions on the assault hahaha
How come Bronze Shield Pikemen are lower than Silver Shield Pikemen? Aren't they virtually the same unit with identical stats? Bronze Shields are cheaper which should make them technically superior, though the difference is negligible.
I guess im entirely biased because Egyptian axemen would be "We Will Make Spartans Out of You" for me. I always use them in every army and every campaign unless im specifically doing a "cav only" thing. Usually doing a 2:1 ration for spearmen to axemen whenever i have the chance. But im also super aggressive with my cav/chariots and force my enemy to react, giving me lots of chances to throw my axemen into the gates of hell and watch them pop off
Thanks for the comment. Imo these lists always have some personal bias, so I am guilty as well :) That strat you use with Egypt sounds really interesting.
I remember Egyptian axemen being a right pain to fight against in campaign, iirc havent they got the same or similar stats to late legions? 😅 I thought it was an oversight by the devs or something
With all due respect but all Legionaries other than the Early Cohort are trash. 1. You want to exterminate the populace in conquered cities so you get rich off plunder, can set very high taxes and most importantly don't have rebellions in your rear. That reduces the city size so even "normal" Legionaries are a long shot. 2. Your Early Cohorts will gain experience and outshine newly trained stock "normals" because they will roll out sooner. You then can also retrain those veteran Early Cohorts in any town with barracks bringing them to full strength whenever you need. 3. You don't waste money on barracks a tier 2 port or even roads will be a higher return on investment. 4. Praetorians and Urbans requrie 2 turns to recruit: x2 Early Chorots > x1 Urban Cohort. Same principle applies to Hastati vs Principii but to a lesser extent as Principii have disciplined and highly trained.
Thanks for the comment. I agree if moving against Barbarians. But against factions that can build higher tier barracks, the retraining of legionaries comes a smaller problem imo. And I also agree about that 2 turns to train hurting some units quite a bit :)
Legionaries are the best option. They are far ahead over the Early and much easier to get than the Urban. You can also make an argument for the cost ineffective Pretorians simply because of how easy it is to get them (only require high government building) if you don't want to waste the turns it takes to build up the barracks tiers. Against barbarians, sure, go with the Early for convenience, it's easy to fight barbs. But it's even easier to play Greek and roll out Armored Hoplites that will beat standard legionaries in manual combat and are much easier to get than even the Early legionaries.
Have to disargree on the decere. It is the strongest ship in the game. If you make sicily your recruitment centre for it, you have a full stack in no time. Only downside: you probably will have finished the campaign when you can start recruiting.
:D Thanks for the comment. I agree that it is the strongest ship by far. But the down-side is quite significant as well. Furthermore, the training time is rather long.
Love god and love all people. Trust, hope and do good in god. 😂Believe in the gospel Jesus Christ for Jesus Christ shed his blood and died for the sins of the world and he was buried and rose again from the dead three days later. For Jesus Christ God almighty and the flesh and if you believe in the gospel you are spiritually reborn into the family of God.
I once dominated the entire campaign map with just Germanic Berserkers. It's was the easiest thing ever. You simply set them in one big line and sent them running in Berserker mode. I was never defeated, apart from when I reached the Egyptian chariots. They then destroyed my entire armies after simply running away and whittling down my men.
Thanks for the comment. Sounds really interesting and efficient. How did you fare against phalanxes and did not the enemy field enough archers to stop them? :)
@@qualityoldgames7721 great question, I think at the time I was playing on an old laptop so had the unit size down sufficiently. I don't ever remember archers or phalanx as a problem, I always tried to field an entire stack of them. You should try it and see what happens.
Thanks for the response. I will keep that in mind. There are plenty of Berserker test vids already, and 1 one of them can solo about 120 Eastern Infantries and a good bunch of Triarii as well :)@@XxKINGatLIFExX
hey man, just found your channel and well you betcha im binging all the things you've posted till now. really refreshing to see quality rome total war content
Wardogs in combination of archers are extremely powerful , I'm surprised people don't do this often, especially if you have creatan archers I don't know where triarii icon is, shame it has to go in the D tier
This is worst tierlist I ever seen!!! Realy you put peasants in mid tier then Sarmantian Cavalry can easilly destroy them and half of your tier list...🤣
The funny thing is eastern infantry in large numbers are very good. With about five or six units of eastern infantry and a general I defeated multiple armies of Seleucid militia hoplites in a row.
Thanks for the comment. Nice. Imo an additional downside of EI is also the large strain to population recruiting them puts. But you are right. They can be used to win the whole campaign on vh/vh. :) Link below if you want to check that out: th-cam.com/play/PLzgwn6yANNZzYxnsDV-2PPAVZzxXgEzG1.html
Scythian Nobles should be placed higher, they are situational in the Scythian roster because horse archers get 99% of the job done but they can be used like a heavier version of the Macedonian Light Lancers to cycle-charge with devastating effect, especially against testudo users. Speaking of Light Lancers, they are absolutely amazing. They have crazy damage early on and even later they're no slouch on the charge, plus they are one of the fastest units in the game so they are excellent at flanking or preventing fleeing units from rallying. They die a lot but who cares, they cost less than 400 denarii and can be (re)trained almost anywhere. I would rate them Spartan tier. Screeching Women are cheap early game morale boosters, later Germania gets much better ways to manipulate morale but they are a good stopgap. Not strictly necessary since Spear Warbands dominate the early game anyway, but definitely not trash tier. Spear Warband deserve Spartan tier, while they aren't the best in terms of quality, they are unrivalled in numbers and cost-efficiency. They are essentially cheap Phalanx Pikemen which can be recruited in a Tier 1 barracks.
I think you are underrating (Egyptian) Desert Cavalry. They are quite cheap, can be recruited almost anywhere, are fast and have a bonus against armor, which allows them to beat much heavier cav 1 on 1, while being able to outmaneuver and chase them. (Scythian) Headhunting Maidens are almost as good, IIRC.
The ordinary german/scythian axemen should be in bad category not "if you can't make better" Reason 1: the 2 factions that get them get a better unit in a lower barracks tier (Spear Warbands or Scythian Horse Archers) Reason 2: they lose to Falxmen & Swordsmen who are tier 2 equivalents Also Carthaginian late bodyguards & Sacred Band cavalry are worse than all other late bodyguards & heavy cavalry except the Egyptian late bodyguards
I agree on eastern infantry being absolute shit, though when massed and upgraded, especially morale which is now possible in the remaster they're actually not that terrible, only their upkeep is insanely high for a unit that has such low morale.
The only one I disagree with is armored eastern generals. They are the best cavs in the game. Definitely better than Roman general. I routed a full stack of Roman army with like 2 of these guys
Thanks for the comment. I agree about Rome 1 in campaign. Based on my multiplayer experience (even though rather limited) other factions can face Rome rather well :)
Thanks for the comment. That is a really nice ability. At the same time, their fighting prowess has some deficits as they do not have good stamina. Furthermore the 2 turns to train them hurts but yea, that requirements is really nice :)
Peasants and light cav both have a special role that’s outside of combat. If you’re facing an army without cav, one unit of light cav sitting behind their army just chasing people down will double your kills in a battle. Just don’t use them on nonrouting units
Thanks for the comment. Agreed on that. :)
Well, I use em to harass skirmishers, and to hammer a near routing enemy unit. More than once they have given their lives by preventing a powerful heavy cav and inf charge I really didn't want to take.
Peasants definitely S-tier, best unit for migrating populace from overcrowded cities to recently conquered villages
Peasants for public order too
I'm gonna share a secret that is going to blow your mind.
Ctarafacts carry two melee weapons. Just like you can force archers to attack in melee holding alt (the mouse icon will change from bow to sword), you can have these two units use their alternative melee weapons (hold ALT key when ordering them to attack). For Catriphacts these are maces that IIRC have the same stats but that have "Armor Piercing" tag that ignores half of enemy armor making them shred through heavily armored units.
Egyptian Desert Axe cavalery is underrated too. They also have "Armor Piercing" tag that makes them surprisingly effective and cost-effective against heavier units.
Both of these are the only cavalery with Armor-Piercing tag. Other notable units with that tag are Chosen Axemen and all Roman melee units thrown pilas.
Test Axe cavalery at the cost-equivalent, for example 2 Axe Cavalery vs 1 Catriphacts, and compare it to other similiar cavalery.
Thanks for the comment. Yea, the alt-attack is really nice. And Catas actually have +1 to attack when using maces :)
Head-hunting Maidens also carry axes (and thus have the armour piercing tag)
@@18Hongo True :) Thanks for the comment.
Horse archers, Cathaphracts, Cataphracts Archers, Sarmatian Cavalry, Companions, Urban Cohorts, Armoured Hoplites, Macedonian Royal Phalanx (Seleucid Silver Shields/Pontic Bronze Shields), Chosen Archers, Chosen Axemen, Scythed Chariots and Armoured Elephants. The demi-gods of Rome:Total War.
Indeed :) Thanks for the comment.
Add chosen swordsmen to the list, they beat Spartans 1v1 if charged with warcry and they are almost on par with urbans assuming you charge into them and don't allow urbans to use their pilla.
Actually Roman Cavalry is heavy, and can do some really good damage to units it hits in the rear
Thanks for the comment. Yea, I have noticed that later. Some unit just wrecked Equites (was it Chosen Archers) and then Roman Cav wrecked it in turn :)
Head Hurlers from Britannia should be ranked higher. The effect they have on demoralizing is quite substantial+they are effective at killing generals and heavy infantry from the romans, which can be hard playing as britannia.
Thanks for the comment. What tier do you have in mind? :)
Head hurlers are fast moving, got decent morale and attack as well. They are themselves light infantry, 2 in 1.
to be honest when I used to play Rome, I used to exclusively have head hurlers as my ranged infantry. They do crazy damage
@@websta1144 Pretty sure it would have been considered AP damage in modern TWs
@@ehberburger741 They literally have "Effective Against Armor" tag that makes their attack ignore half of the enemy amor. They literally _are_ AP.
One advantage over using British heavy chariots over your general's guard is you don't have to worry about the sudden death of your general. Of course this is a factor with all general's bodyguards, but it's particularly pronounced with chariot generals who can get themselves into horrible trouble quickly.
The Germanic spear warband is like starting with tanks in 1914; the perfect (if primitive) counter for the time. They get a phalanx at the start of the game when most of their immediate rivals are running around with warbands and light cavalry. They do absolutely dreadfully if they come out of formation though, and they are extremely difficult to use in sieges.
The skirmisher units are worth keeping on hand for sieges. They can be used to draw the enemy out from the center where they can be routed or quickly surrounded. That alone makes them 'if you cannot have better' in my opinion as they at least have a role. You can use pila instead if you're the Romans or Spanish, but they have shorter range and enemies may be able to park somewhere on a large square that the shorter ranged pila can't reach. Having just one skirmisher unit can save you from a brutal slugging match that takes out a chunk of your army.
Thanks for the comment. Good points :)
This video is great when some fantasy only players say that historical games lack unit diversity. 👍
Thank You! I agree that there is quite a lot of unit variety in Rome :)
Round shield cavalry are underatted. I've used swarms of them to charge phalanx troops, legionnaires, heavy infantry, even heavy cav. They rinse through any skirmisher units, and if you surround a heavy a phalanx and hit repeatedly, it'll break. They are one of the few units that can catch horse archers or skirmisher cavalary. Now, they do die easily much more than heavier cav, but they are less expensive, easier to train and they are SUPER FAST. I would put them as join the legions. I've kept as units for Carthage well into late game and they've done a great job. Stack 4-6 and swarm the battle map with them, totally worth it.
Thanks for the comment. A good point. I think playstyle also affects things :)
Making my official request for a faction tier list for Medieval 2.
Thanks for the request. I will add it to To-Do list but before that I am going to do a bunch of more of those How Good Is videos :)
I think most Rome Total War unit tier lists need a space for "circumstantial" units, like druids or chariots. They are very good at some moments, while they perform some roles horribly. They are not good or bad overall, but designed for special and concrete circumstances.
Thanks for the comment. A valid point! Another prominent example is Incendiary pigs :)
@@qualityoldgames7721true! Seleucid charriots are pure cheese for fighting the romans, completely nuking their armies easily, but when faced with egyptians, they suck.
@@ITSMRFOXY Indeed. Imo, they are especially well suited against enemy cavalry. Thanks for the comment :)
I think someting that should effect their tier is how they interact with the faction as a whole. For example, for Gothic Cavalry, it means you now have to choose between gothic cavalry which are expensive and take multiple turns to do what the noble cavalry do cheaply. Or the Berserkers which are just an absolute wrecking crew.
Or for example the same unit on one faction vs another due to building differences, case in point. The same cavalry on one faction might be stronger on another because of building giving them exp or weapon or armor bonuses.
Thanks for the very good an interesting points. Imo the regarding the first, Spartan Hoplites, First Cohorts, and Elephants suffer from quite severe requirements. In my gameplays I usually specialize a city to certain unit type (infantry, cav or missile). It might be because of that I did not take what you say too much into account. The second one, I certainly could have considered more :)
I think the Bull Warriors should be put in top tier. Not only do they have two hitpoints which is nice but they have one of the highest damaging javalins in the game. Completely outdoing even the urban cohorts at range and allowing them to go toe to toe with them. As such they are significantly stronger when skirmishing rather than being in battle where their stats are lower.
Thanks for the comment. I agree that their javelins are good and their 2 HPs is just great. Additionally, the building requirements are quite easy for them. Perhaps they should be higher :)
they lose to chosen swordsmen assuming you charge the swordsmen with warcry on, and they don't get to throw their javelins. multiple hitpoints are not as good as people think.
@@jonsnow7092 Warcry isn't that good of an ability since the moment you see it you can just kite the unit that has warcry till it runs out and multiple hitpoints are actually really important in a game where if an attack lands on a target they will typically die in one hit.
Hoplites can rule the world if given flank protection and ranged like peltasts, me personally I try to make the best heavy peltasts and use them like hastati when I can
Looks like a sound strategy. Agreed on that. And those Heavy peltasts can really act as a decent light infantry after they have used their javelins :) Thanks for the comment.
@@qualityoldgames7721 they’re better than hastati if you have the temple of Nike and good blacksmiths
@@someidiotacrossthestreet5188 True. And with proper phalanxes can easily beat Principes as well.
one thing that bugged me a bit though: the roman cavalry after marion reforms is actually a heavy cav unit
Thanks for the comment. Indeed it is. But statswise imo rather close to equites :)
@@qualityoldgames7721 see thats what i mean haha, they're just slower equites they dont deserve the heavy cav status . the thing i pointed out bugged me abt the game, not the list
Ah :D Thanks for the clarification. Fully agreed on that.
Round shield cavalery being below equites and greek cavalery is a clear error.
Round shield is 7/10/4 (for 330)
Equites are 6/12/5 (for 420)
Greek cavalery is 6/8/5 (for 330)
They are pretty decent.
A valid point. Imo they usually fall rather easily in the campaign play :) Thanks for the comment.
@@qualityoldgames7721 and same with Long-shield cavalry : they are the heavy-lifters of Carthage's early game, and you can win whole campaigns with just these guys + They are so cheap ! (They have good Morale, good stamina, and they counter all the rosters you will be fighting early like Numidia Spain and Rome).
I respect your list and your opinion, i wouldn't put it this way purely because a battle requires an army that can perform all duties, i.e. all arms, so you need missile, light infantry, heavy infantry, light cavalry, medium cavalry and heavy cavalry.
missile units funnel or separate any unit they attack.
light infantry break up infantry formations and by you artillery time to bombard the enemy.
heavy infantry smash
light cavalry scout and harass missile units
medium cavalry harass missile units and mop up units that are fleeing as well as flank infantry
Heavy cavalry are shock troops who can open formations of break the resistance of high morale units.
A lot of the units you've marked low have specific roles that they are elite at, take the Onager for example, in a siege it can reduce causalities by taking out towers and gates, it can also inflict heavy causalities to a unit on a wall its just destroyed and cut them off if your infantry are climbing a tower.
Thanks for the detailed comment. Fully agreed on that the army composition and combined arms affect things. At the same time, there are quite a few battles where there are no niches for some units and they are just bad in other situations. But e.g. regarding Onagers in siege battles, agreed to a degree ;D
@qualityoldgames7721 As soon as I wrote my comment, I thought, you can use the Onager to sniper the enemy general as well. That destroys the enemies morale.
@qualityoldgames7721 You are right though, some units don't get to use their niche in battle because of the AI
@@leonrobinson2053 Agreed on that :) Thanks for the comment.
@@leonrobinson2053 Thanks for the comment. True, that sounds like a good use for them :)
i think Gothic Cavalry should be way higher as they are the best barbarian cavalry in the game. same quality as late warlord bodyguard, just with 1 HP. this is similar to the relation between praetorian cavalry and roman armored general.
Thanks for the comment. They are a good unit. 2 turns to train is a bit of a downside though :)
@@qualityoldgames7721
a bit. for the best barbarian cav in the game, its EASILY worth it. noble cav and barbarian cav are shit in comparison.
its like preferring to train roman cavalry instead of praetorian cavalry because of the 2 turn recruitment time...makes no sense.
Ok, OK. IMO Scythian noble cav do NOT melee, they charge and get away. It can not be simpler than that.
Thanks for the comment. Probably the best way to use them :)
Now I'm curious, Eastern Infantry vs Screeching Women, who will win? 😅
Thanks for the comment. I will add that to To-Do list :)
Coming back to this I realized that the list is missing Camel Cataphracts for some reason. (we all know where that unit is going) lol
Thanks for the comment. I think it is there :) On the "If you cannot have better" tier.
Cappadocian cavalry and cataphracts are literally the same unit with different names, how are they so far apart in ranking?
Thanks for the comment. In battles the Cappadocians have swords as secondary weapons instead of maces. Imo they also performed quite a bit worse in cavalry test tournament than Cataphracts. :) (If I remember my reasoning correct)
You actually forgot a unit, the Armenian Legionaires. They've got the same stats as the Numidian ones, though with slightly better morale. It's one of the units, along with the cataphract archers and the phalanx guys, who let Armenia absolutely dominate Parthia if you can live that long.
Thanks for the comment. Perhaps they should have been a separate entity. I kind of thought that they are included in the Numidian ones because of the same stats :)
@@qualityoldgames7721 No problem! I figured as much, although I think contextually they're better than the Numidians because they can be so much more dynamic insofar as the Armenian roster is stouter and so you don't have to rely on them as much for everything.
Funnily enough, the only balance change the remaster specifically mentions as doing to troops is that the Armenian late infantry, presumably the legionaries and the phalanx dudes, have decent buff to their morale. Why this change, and only this change, was made is unclear to me, but is a nice little bonus to the already strong Armenian roster, especially because it really helps bolster them against the Selucid and Egyptian chariot morale debuffs.
@@JimoftheSlim Thanks for the comment. Agreed. Additionally, Armenian variant can get some nice buffs from Temples. :)
But where do the infamous Yubtseb elephants rank? The first time i found them was when Athens revolted with a gladiator revolt and they got 2 units of them and shreded my legions on the assault hahaha
Haha :D That is quite a surprise. Perhaps I should have included them. Thanks for the comment.
How come Bronze Shield Pikemen are lower than Silver Shield Pikemen? Aren't they virtually the same unit with identical stats? Bronze Shields are cheaper which should make them technically superior, though the difference is negligible.
Thanks for the comment. I don't remember my reasoning behind that but might be a mistake :)
Can I borrow your template?
Thanks for the question. Sure. Unfortunately, while making this tierlist, I did not make the template public. Good luck with the channel! :)
Am i the only one african elephants better than armoured elephants?
Thanks for the comment. Hmm. I checked the stats. Carthaginian variant seems to be a bit cheaper but the stats are the same :)
I guess im entirely biased because Egyptian axemen would be "We Will Make Spartans Out of You" for me.
I always use them in every army and every campaign unless im specifically doing a "cav only" thing. Usually doing a 2:1 ration for spearmen to axemen whenever i have the chance. But im also super aggressive with my cav/chariots and force my enemy to react, giving me lots of chances to throw my axemen into the gates of hell and watch them pop off
Thanks for the comment. Imo these lists always have some personal bias, so I am guilty as well :) That strat you use with Egypt sounds really interesting.
They are better and cheaper than Germanic Axemen but they have one gigantic downside - no warcry.
I remember Egyptian axemen being a right pain to fight against in campaign, iirc havent they got the same or similar stats to late legions? 😅
I thought it was an oversight by the devs or something
@@squishymusic9723 armor piercing damage is no joke, you can leverage a lot of strategics and tactics around the line they hold
With all due respect but all Legionaries other than the Early Cohort are trash.
1. You want to exterminate the populace in conquered cities so you get rich off plunder, can set very high taxes and most importantly don't have rebellions in your rear. That reduces the city size so even "normal" Legionaries are a long shot.
2. Your Early Cohorts will gain experience and outshine newly trained stock "normals" because they will roll out sooner. You then can also retrain those veteran Early Cohorts in any town with barracks bringing them to full strength whenever you need.
3. You don't waste money on barracks a tier 2 port or even roads will be a higher return on investment.
4. Praetorians and Urbans requrie 2 turns to recruit: x2 Early Chorots > x1 Urban Cohort.
Same principle applies to Hastati vs Principii but to a lesser extent as Principii have disciplined and highly trained.
Thanks for the comment. I agree if moving against Barbarians. But against factions that can build higher tier barracks, the retraining of legionaries comes a smaller problem imo. And I also agree about that 2 turns to train hurting some units quite a bit :)
Legionaries are the best option. They are far ahead over the Early and much easier to get than the Urban. You can also make an argument for the cost ineffective Pretorians simply because of how easy it is to get them (only require high government building) if you don't want to waste the turns it takes to build up the barracks tiers. Against barbarians, sure, go with the Early for convenience, it's easy to fight barbs. But it's even easier to play Greek and roll out Armored Hoplites that will beat standard legionaries in manual combat and are much easier to get than even the Early legionaries.
putting spartans to the rank of "we will make spartans out of these yet" must be the biggest OOOOF in history. xD.
Haha :D True. That is what one gets when being available only in two cities. Thanks for the comment.
Have to disargree on the decere. It is the strongest ship in the game. If you make sicily your recruitment centre for it, you have a full stack in no time. Only downside: you probably will have finished the campaign when you can start recruiting.
:D Thanks for the comment. I agree that it is the strongest ship by far. But the down-side is quite significant as well. Furthermore, the training time is rather long.
Love god and love all people. Trust, hope and do good in god. 😂Believe in the gospel Jesus Christ for Jesus Christ shed his blood and died for the sins of the world and he was buried and rose again from the dead three days later. For Jesus Christ God almighty and the flesh and if you believe in the gospel you are spiritually reborn into the family of God.
Amen. Thanks for the comment :)
I once dominated the entire campaign map with just Germanic Berserkers. It's was the easiest thing ever. You simply set them in one big line and sent them running in Berserker mode.
I was never defeated, apart from when I reached the Egyptian chariots. They then destroyed my entire armies after simply running away and whittling down my men.
Thanks for the comment. Sounds really interesting and efficient. How did you fare against phalanxes and did not the enemy field enough archers to stop them? :)
@@qualityoldgames7721 great question, I think at the time I was playing on an old laptop so had the unit size down sufficiently.
I don't ever remember archers or phalanx as a problem, I always tried to field an entire stack of them.
You should try it and see what happens.
Thanks for the response. I will keep that in mind. There are plenty of Berserker test vids already, and 1 one of them can solo about 120 Eastern Infantries and a good bunch of Triarii as well :)@@XxKINGatLIFExX
hey man, just found your channel and well you betcha im binging all the things you've posted till now. really refreshing to see quality rome total war content
Thank You very much. I hope you like the content :)
Wardogs in combination of archers are extremely powerful , I'm surprised people don't do this often, especially if you have creatan archers
I don't know where triarii icon is, shame it has to go in the D tier
Hmm. Could I have forgotten it. Well, in any case, D tier :) Thanks for the comment.
This is worst tierlist I ever seen!!! Realy you put peasants in mid tier then Sarmantian Cavalry can easilly destroy them and half of your tier list...🤣
The funny thing is eastern infantry in large numbers are very good. With about five or six units of eastern infantry and a general I defeated multiple armies of Seleucid militia hoplites in a row.
Thanks for the comment. Nice. Imo an additional downside of EI is also the large strain to population recruiting them puts. But you are right. They can be used to win the whole campaign on vh/vh. :)
Link below if you want to check that out:
th-cam.com/play/PLzgwn6yANNZzYxnsDV-2PPAVZzxXgEzG1.html
Scythian Nobles should be placed higher, they are situational in the Scythian roster because horse archers get 99% of the job done but they can be used like a heavier version of the Macedonian Light Lancers to cycle-charge with devastating effect, especially against testudo users.
Speaking of Light Lancers, they are absolutely amazing. They have crazy damage early on and even later they're no slouch on the charge, plus they are one of the fastest units in the game so they are excellent at flanking or preventing fleeing units from rallying. They die a lot but who cares, they cost less than 400 denarii and can be (re)trained almost anywhere. I would rate them Spartan tier.
Screeching Women are cheap early game morale boosters, later Germania gets much better ways to manipulate morale but they are a good stopgap. Not strictly necessary since Spear Warbands dominate the early game anyway, but definitely not trash tier.
Spear Warband deserve Spartan tier, while they aren't the best in terms of quality, they are unrivalled in numbers and cost-efficiency. They are essentially cheap Phalanx Pikemen which can be recruited in a Tier 1 barracks.
Thanks for the well grounded opinions. Good points :)
do you have a link for this
Thanks for the question. Unfortunately, I did the earliest tierlists as private ones. I try to remember to make the future ones public :)
I think you are underrating (Egyptian) Desert Cavalry. They are quite cheap, can be recruited almost anywhere, are fast and have a bonus against armor, which allows them to beat much heavier cav 1 on 1, while being able to outmaneuver and chase them. (Scythian) Headhunting Maidens are almost as good, IIRC.
Thanks for the comment. Good points :)
The ordinary german/scythian axemen should be in bad category not "if you can't make better"
Reason 1: the 2 factions that get them get a better unit in a lower barracks tier (Spear Warbands or Scythian Horse Archers)
Reason 2: they lose to Falxmen & Swordsmen who are tier 2 equivalents
Also Carthaginian late bodyguards & Sacred Band cavalry are worse than all other late bodyguards & heavy cavalry except the Egyptian late bodyguards
Thanks for the comment. Valid points, especially regarding Axemen :)
I agree on eastern infantry being absolute shit, though when massed and upgraded, especially morale which is now possible in the remaster they're actually not that terrible, only their upkeep is insanely high for a unit that has such low morale.
Thanks for the comment. Yea. It is possible to beat the game with Eastern Infantry only with hardest difficulties :)
The only one I disagree with is armored eastern generals. They are the best cavs in the game. Definitely better than Roman general. I routed a full stack of Roman army with like 2 of these guys
Thanks for the comment. Yea, most of the bodyguards are really nice :)
Rome is broken in both rome and rome 2 , they have even banned rome from most rome 2 tournaments
Thanks for the comment. I agree about Rome 1 in campaign. Based on my multiplayer experience (even though rather limited) other factions can face Rome rather well :)
accurate to the time! LOL
i mean its accurate to the history, although i think barbarian factions should have some better units with armour and not all be half naked
@@Awzzie_ Haha :) Indeed. Thanks for the comment.
@@Black.Templar_002 True. At the same time, e.g. Berserkers can be rather murderous bunch :)
Hey! A tier list maker that’s not named legenoftotalwar! Nice! Liked!
Thank You! :)
Of this was the dei mod the video would be a couple weeks long 😂😂😂
:D Thanks for the comment.
@@qualityoldgames7721 love the content. Keep it up bro!
@@imhollywood101 Thank You! :)
I feel like pretorians are very strong. In lategame they can replanish anywhere on the Maps becouse they only Requier Tier V townhall
Thanks for the comment. That is a really nice ability. At the same time, their fighting prowess has some deficits as they do not have good stamina. Furthermore the 2 turns to train them hurts but yea, that requirements is really nice :)
@@qualityoldgames7721 and lets not forget you pay a 50% upkeep premium on them pretty much
That is a valid point :) Thanks for the comment.
Medieval 2 next?
That is on To-Do list. I still have some units to test in the "How Good Is" series. But soon :) Thanks for the comment.