You hit the nail on the head with "a true king standing up to a false one". I'd say it's one of Tolkien's many perennial themes, one we can also see repeated with Aragorn vs Sauron or even Melkor vs Manwë, but I think it resonates so strongly here because of the inherent power differential between Fingolfin and Morgoth. Although diminished, Morgoth is more powerful than Fingolfin can conceive and by all accounts has just proven that by releasing Glaurung and breaking the siege. But a true king embodies something much greater, valor, strength of will, love for his people and ultimately Eru's rule over creation. This, I believe, is what elevates Fingolfin to the point that he's mistaken as Oromë, while Morgoth cowers as a "lord of slaves".
Very well put, couldn't agree more. I use that comparison in my "Of Aragorn and the Faint-hearted" video. Aragorn acting like a king before he is officially a king - Sauron claiming to be one but being a lord of fear and tyranny. It's a bit like how Tolkien seems to use height with nobility - but then you have figures like the Dark Lords who pervert the idea - being huge without any nobility. Symbols of corruption and lack of kingship.
what always struck me about this duel is that it feels like an act of utter defiance. Fingolfin is righteously wrathful toward Morgoth, but he is also rebelling against his own being in a way. He's saying, "I'm only and Elf and you are a Valar but though I do not rue my shortcomings I declare you evil and challenge you." Very much echoed in Eowyn's laughing challenge to the Nazgul lord
I agree with that. The whole idea of fate standing in the way of Morgoth being defeated this way is meaningless when the person feels that he still needs to be challenged directly and can't just be left to continue his evil. It's defiance.
I‘ve just discovered the parallels between fingolfin in this scene and theoden in the battle of the pelennor fields: both of them are kings who ride into battle without hope of winning, they do it just to give their people at least some hope and to try and resist the enemy to the very end. Both of them think the end has come now. Tolkien even compares them both to orome. I don‘t know if it‘s just coincidence, but no matter if it is or not (i believe it‘s done on purpose), we can really see how heroic the desicion of theoden was to fight a battle which seemed to be lost. This courage isn‘t really appreciated by many people. (At least in my opinion)
True hero. He forsook his own life to became a symbol for all. He made the Noldor, the living and the fallen His Father Finwë his family and his Brother Fëanor PROUD
I was 14 years old in 1984 I loved Feanor to death he was just something else. But Fingolfin Reading his battle against Morgoth I held hope knowing he would die and read the words slowly hoping maybe just maybe he could kill Morgoth! I cried that day like a baby for a fictional character, I am 52 now crying to this video, that is the power of Tolkien that the rings of power will never capture. The truly emotional connection to this world based on evil and good, beauty and corruption. No fantasy writer will ever come close ever. I love Erickson and Martin but Tolkien is the Greatest!
Since you ask... 😀 I think Tolkien shows us that, in fighting a darkness you cannot see a way to defeat, there is a line or spectrum. On one end you have estel, hope/faith, a notion that however bad things get, that 'above all shadows rides the sun and stars forever dwell', as Sam puts it in his song. On the opposite end, you have the final despair that leaves you unable to fight at all, as happens with Denethor. And in between those extremes, you have the 'northern courage'. No belief that good will triumph, or even survive in the long term. That all things must end. And that the only right thing to do in the light of this grim reality is to fight, and to 'make such an end as will be worth a song' as Théoden puts it. And that those songs are both tragic and wonderful.
Fingolfin was the greatest King of the Noldor perhaps all High Elves. All things he did he did for his kind. Feanor "the greatest elf" killed his own people, besides creating beautiful works, at the end he was driven by wrath but by egoist wrath and greed. Fingolfin was at the end also driven by wrath before his death in combat. But his wrath was "just" if we could call it like this.
Always such Feanor hate, forgetting that he was the instrument of all the Noldor's Valor in arda, and as per the silmarilion- was Eru's will. Perhaps not the kinslaying, but the valor of the Noldor and feanor in vengeance.
Only one other Child of Eru has been compared to Orome on horseback. Both had suffered tremendous loss. Both were doomed to fall before a Lord. of Darkness. However, both showed their courage and stood their ground, and in so doing became legends, and inspired other to follow in their wake. Perhaps on the last day, Orome and Nahal will lead Fingolfin and Rochallor, and Theodain and Snowmane on another charge. A victorious charge against the Shadow for a final time so that Arda can be made anew. Fingolfin was doomed the moment he set foot on Beleriand. After the Battle of Sudden Flame, Fingolfin could no longer ignore or hope to deny the words of Manwe or escape the consequences of the slaying of their kin. The Halls of Mandos awaited one way or another. All that was left to him was to confront his father's murderer and the Enemy of the world and do what harm he could to that black foe. So, he did. And, ever after, his foe Morgoth sat deep down in the hell of his own making, cloaked in darkness to hide the cowardice in his evil heart until he was dragged out like a rabid dog wearing his iron crown around his collared neck.
Loved this video, sorry I didn't see it sooner. Tbh, Fingolfin ranks as my #1 favourite Silmarillion character of all times, and is possibly my favourite in the whole of the Legendarium, for the simple act of always turning the other cheek to Feanor, for this great act of defiance against Morgoth and for his unerring dedication to his people. Frankly, I think that if there was a little bit of Fingolfin in all of us, the whole of the world would be better for it.
The seven wounds thing sounds like what Nuada did in the single combat where he lost his arm, inflicting seven mighty wounds before being defeated. I love the parallels with real world mythology in the Silmarillion.
Good catch - and Tolkien would be well aware of such a mythological figure as well. Such contests between figures like this are found in so many mythologies - the message behind the stories being so important.
It is a sign of strength is to cry out against fate rather than to bow your head and succumb. Fingolfin had other priorities than living forever, such as to demand justice (and vengeance) when the higher authorities thought themselves unable to do so instead.
So, in a sense, Fingolfin was like a Leonidas as depicted in 300 Spartans. "The World will know that free men stood up to a tyrant, and before all is said and done, everyone will know that even a god-king can bleed." It wasn't Fingolfin's goal to win a martial victory. It was to show the whole of Arda and beyond that Morgoth is not invincible and that, through this knowledge, a window of hope remained for the free people.
It’s wild how involved he was before he was High King, then he’s barely mentioned until he loses all hope and makes himself a legend fighting Morgoth. Excellent video
Hope you enjoyed this first video in this new series. Already writing my next video for Tolkien Reading day but I hope to have another one of these Hero videos up in April. And a few people asked about doing the opposite - videos focused on particularly heinous or villainous acts. You only need to look at the videos on this channel to know that this will certainly be something interesting for me to make. Channel support - www.patreon.com/TheRedBook
Your new series' first video did not disappoint, man! The quality of your commissioned art and editing did not disappoint. I would say Fingolfin's sacrifice was worth it. It is written that the Noldor's entire fight against Morgoth may have been doomed to fail, but through their evil they accomplished a greater good all the same: Keeping Morgoth and all his evil confined to Beleriand, even if that entire landmass had to be sunk at the end. Similarly, Fingolfin's last stand can be seen as suicidal and pointless, but I have no doubt the shame and fear he instilled in Morgoth both physically and mentally served a greater good: *Preventing Morgoth from taking a more hands-on approach and committing even more evil until he was finally overthrown.* How do you think the duel of Fingolfin versus Morgoth should be acted out or animated? I've always imagined the scene being inspired by Oberyn Gregor "The Mountain" Clegane versus Oberyn "The Viper" Martell. Morgoth is like The Mountain, slow and lumbering, but 1 shot and you're dead. Fingolfin is like The Viper, weaker only by comparison, fast and deadly. The music would be John William's "Duel Of The Fates" from Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace. What do you think?
@@MistaGify - That does fit with that theme - greater good from all attempts to halt it - it's very fitting that it is an Elf who challenges Morgoth as well - no longer holding back all of the Valar on his own - he has trouble dealing with a courageous child of Eru coming to challenge him. And yes, that's a good point - I always saw Morgoth as not wanting to leave his citadel by that time anyway - but this event really really made sure he didn't leave it. I think it may be difficult to act it out because I'm still curious about what size Morgoth actually is in the duel. Even though the art can be great, I never saw Morgoth as being 50 feet tall at this time. How can he put his foot on Fingolfin's neck if his foot is bigger than Fingolfin!? I see him as being very very large though, maybe like 10 feet+ (3M+). And yes, I see Fingolfin as being very fast, dextrous, fluid, and hitting Morgoth when it counts. All while Morgoth swings and slams into the ground - missing Fingolfin. When it comes to music, I'd probably have something a bit slower than Duel of the Fates - something a bit epic like the music I used here - gregorian choirs or something like that.
@@TheRedBook I'm glad you wholeheartedly agree with my interpretation of Fingolfin's sacrifice. As for an animated or live-action duel, there is a lot of room for creative liberty. The Silmarillion is similar to The Bible in being a very lean text. The Bible is very to-the-point and doesn't care about worldbuilding details like the Nephilin, Leviathan, or Behemoth. Similarly, Tolkien wrote in a manner where exact details of power levels and physical dimensions weren't important. As for the music, it should be as epic yet slower than Duel Of The Fates. Say, as a guy playing Elden Ring, how about something straight out of Dark Souls?! Something epic and orchestral, yet mournful and melancholic for Fingolfin's final stand. What do you think about Gwyn's theme from DS1, or the Soul of Cinder and even Slave Knight Gael's themes??? I know the DS Trilogy is a dark fantasy as opposed to the high fantasy that is Middle-Earth, but it would be fitting, don't you think?
@@MistaGify Oh man. That idea about the music is excellent. It's one thing to go into an epic fight with fast, loud, epic music. But scoring it with something slower and mournful would be phenomenal. The way I imagine the scene being structured would have it start with Fingolfin walking across Anfauglith, with fury and determination coursing through him, and ending with Morgoth standing over Fingolfins body, viewed from a distant perspective (like, whoever it was that ended up recounting the tale to others). Scoring a scene like that with something slow and tragic from the outset gives it an entirely different tone -- it's an acknowledgement to the audience of the unavoidable ending that's coming, and it's a way of underscoring that Fingolfin wasn't necessarily going there to *kill* Morgoth -- he wanted to make Morgoth feel the pain and fear he had been causing for everyone else. That scoring choice alone would show that this fight isn't a failure because Fingolfin died, but a victory because Fingolfin fought.
It is interesting like: 1) Melkor didn't fight with Feanor in Aman for the Silmarils 2) Melkor is saved by the Balrog from Ungoliant 3) Melkor sends the Balrog(s) to fight against Feanor and mortally wound him (and he has very few elves). 4) Melkor fights with Fingolfin only because he cannot avoid the fight. Melkor knows fear, he is the only Valar to know fear. The reason is he fears he can be defeated by someone else with a doom/destiny stronger than his own.
True but I tend to view his fear as being closer to the potential defeat he can suffer now that he has created "Morgoth's Ring". He can actually be forced from his form and diminish - something that wasn't possible beforehand. He would then crave the return to that form - as all do who become accustomed to their incarnation. edit - should add that I agree with you in terms of fear of someone like Hurin or Turin- more related to destiny of man - something Fingfolin wouldn't share in
He alone as a character made me want to read and research all Tolkiens books, Morgoth fans may have a different opinion... he's like 'Dominic Torreto' of the first age Family over everything he didn't think twice when push came to shove. Feanor on the other hand only seemed to care for his father and his possessions, willing to send all the eldar (his sons especially) to their doom for revenge and to claim them back.
That was very good stuff. Fingolfin is a great doomed hero. I was so glad you began with that section of “The Lays of Beleriand. “ it is all great poetry but Fingolfins story reminds me so much of Sir Patrick Spens. I know Tolkien aimed to write mythology for England, but this stirs something very Scottish in my soul, the doomed fight taken up. So near and yet so far. These things feel so Scottish to me. Another wonder of the professor, his myth touches us all in a deep way. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Oh there’s no doubt that Fingolfin acted in desperation. But this duel was the beginning of the end of Morgoth. If Morgoth could be humiliated in combat by an elf then there was no doubt that his power was no longer what it once was, Fingolfin gave hope to the elves that one day Morgoth would be defeated and he shamed the Valar who thought Morgoth was still the mighty Melkor of the past and continued to allow him to act without rebuke.
Making Morgoth cry out in pain & spilling even a drop of his blood, despite losing the duel, doubtless gave his people hope & the will to fight on. Perhaps, even more importantly, it drove a wedge through Morgoth’s confidence. If you bloody the nose of a bully, he may still trounce you, but you’ve exposed him for what he is to everyone who could see it, & especially to himself, & thus his weakness is laid bare. Unarguably a heroic act. Epic in nature. Bravo! I can hardly wait for more in this series.
Exactly, it's always worth standing up even if you won't win - Morgoth wasn't allowed to take an inch without being battled and this was the first real in your face challenge he had faced since the Valar came for him. Almost like a wake up call since he was actually injured in the challenge.
*Fingolfin was one of the greatest heroes in all the Legendarium, and not just because of this final act of his* 1. Under severe provocation from Feanor (a literal sword held to his chest from his older half-brother when he had done nothing wrong and when the drawing of weapons on other Elves was unknown), he chose not to fight back but restrained any negative thoughts he might have had 2. He forgave Feanor later and even submitted to him as the older brother and leader after this. 3. He was not keen to go to Middle-Earth when Feanor rallied the Noldor, as his heart warned him against it. However, he went anyway, as he did not want to abandon his people. Unlike others like Feanor & his sons, and Galadriel, he was not eager to seek out lands of his own to rule at this point. 4. Upon being abandoned and betrayed by Feanor (even after mistakenly supporting his forces during the Kinslaying at Alqualonde), Fingolfin regardless led his people on foot across one of the most terrible places in Arda, the Helcaraxe. This has to be one of the greatest journeys ever made by any Children of Iluvatar. 5. He dared on landing for the first time in Middle Earth to go straight to the gates of Angband to challenge Morgoth in his very fortress. Although Morgoth did not rise to the challenge at the time, it was still an incredibly brave thing to do even with an army at his back 6. He besieged Angband for 400+ years and kept Morgoth and his servants bottled in, something that was not achieved by the Children of Iluvatar ever again without Divine help. 7. He tried to bring the Elves (and not just the Noldor) together in Beleriand, with his feast of peace and kinship 8. His mighty children (and their progeny) who would be some of the greatest characters in Middle Earth history 9. Even when he was undisputed High King of the Noldor in Middle Earth, he did not seek vengeance or retribution against the Sons of Feanor (especially thinking of those who were not Maedhros, who willingly gave his claim to that title to his uncle) 10. And yes, the final great fight against Morgoth. I don't call it reckless or an act of suicide. If he really believed that Morgoth, having broken through the siege of Angband and decimated the Noldor, was about to overrun them all and destroy them utterly, he had nothing to lose; and although it was extremely unlikely that he would defeat a Vala, that only makes his heroism even greater in my eyes. It was also possible that, knowing he would die, the situation and his sacrifice might move the Valar to move against Morgoth. If so, he was wrong about that, but they did intervene later on in similar circumstances when Earendil, Fingolfin's descendent, made a similar desperate act. Not only was the act heroic but it was also effective to a point. To permanently injure a god eight times, to be crushed to ones' knees by something with the weight of a fallen hill and to rise again with his own power three times...that's some serious power. No wonder that the servants of Morgoth fled before him thinking he was Orome himself. In injuring Morgoth, he not only achieved something only a select handful of others did (Ungoliant, Tulkas, Eonwe and finally Thorondor on Fingolfin's death - all of whom were greater than he), the psychological impact of this was such that Morgoth never came out to face an enemy himself ever again. Imagine if Morgoth had taken to going around himself and influencing the outcomes of battles directly with his presence. That he did not was largely down to Fingolfin, because even a mere Elf could humble Morgoth and cause him permanent pain. And while his fall undoubtedly dismayed the Noldor, his heroism would have given them hope and the will to continue fighting.
"... A true king standing against a false one..." (12:53) That is reminiscent of Aragorn challenging Sauron at the end of the Third Age. Never occurred to me before now. As to your question at the end, I would say that making Morgoth bleed *absolutely* made a difference. It showed the rest of Beleriand that Morgoth was not untouchable, that both his body and his pride were vulnerable, even to the likes of Elves and Men. It reminds me (a little) of the Greco-Italian war of 1940, when the Italian invasion of Greece was more-or-less crushed by unexpectedly strong Greek resistance, and is frequently referred to as the Axis powers' first major loss in WWII. The battle itself may not have greatly altered the outcome of the war as a whole, but the news of a seemingly-unstoppable force _stopped_ sent a message that would have a massive morale effect on both sides of the war.
True, I make that comparison in another video (Of Aragorn and the faint hearted). Tolkien really showing us kingly qualities when standing against evil.
The reason Finarfin is important is he didn't take the easy route taking the Ships of the Teleri, he walked through Hellcaraxe like did Morgoth. He paid the price in full to leave Aman where Feanor made the Teleri pay the price. He was there to avenge his father, not to get back his "precious" In this Feanor is more like Sauron, he put some of himself in his creation, so he cannot create the same thing again.
We should make up a name for such cases when your interpretation of an episode makes stronger impression than Tolkien's original version - perhaps, "it has been officially TheRedBooked"? :D Personally, I used to think that it was a suicidal act of despair, and Fingolfin could do more good staying alive. But you made me see the other side: he broke the ice by showing that the Dark Lord is not invincible. He can be wounded, he feels pain and he bleeds just like any other enemy. Still reckless heroism - but not useless. Thank you for this insight :) P.S. Phil's narration is awesome - much different from what it sounded like in my head, but way cooler. I wish I live to the day we hear him reading the whole Silmarillion.
I certainly have no issue with people seeing the despair and grief, almost a 'wasted death' - it fits with the somber mood of The Silmarillion. Still, I see the heroism there - that defiance. The lasting effect on Morgoth really cements that for me. It wasn't just smashing down the King and going about his business. Morgoth really suffered. If only. If I had the cash I'd commission an entire reading of it :D !
Agreed! It struck me that it may be at this point that Morgoth did not realize he could be wounded physically. Not only that but he did not heal from the cuts of the elvish blade. Leaving him with a permanent limp and shaming him this way may have been a very great step towards his defeat.
@@TheRedBook Sorry I couldn't watch your videos over the last 40 or so days because I gave up watching Tolkien video for Lent this year.😢 Well, I am back and catching up. Your videos are truly special. I really missed watching them.
Fingolfin played his diss track right in front of Morgoth's door. Morgoth got the win and a gangster lean to show for it, but the Lord of the Eagles beheld the rap battle, and heard the fire of Fingolfin's mixtape, and he uploaded it to Spotify. Morgoth knew then there was nothing he could do to stop it from going viral. He spent the rest of his days while his realm lasted brooding in the dark, all his hate bent towards the comments section.
The points Tolkien(s) made about Feanor are the contrasts between the fool and the hero. Feanor wasn't valiant, he was scornful and vengeful. Correct me if I'm wrong, outside of his creations Feanor's greatest strength was the power his voice commanded. But his actions spoke louder than his words, he was a fool. Fingolfin kept his silence, and even through his wrath he acted as a knight of chivalry. Fingolfin is the definition of a hero. ✌
Yes, I have an idea for a video about the power of speech and Feanor would be included in that - a power of persuasion even when in their hearts people following him know it is wrong. Even though I am a big fan of the character of Feanor, there is no doubt that he is not heroic!
@@kauetadaieski3131 I don't think any of Fëanor's actions were truly valiant, that would come as secondary to his arrogance. He is great but too corrupt and adversarial.
Would be a lot of work for no pay off, would have to just be a passion project - plus the estate would do their best to not have it shared around. I'll be working with Phil to get quite a few passages for this series though.
I've always thought Fingolfin's duel with Morgoth was both heroic and reckless. Riding to Angband and challenging Morgoth to fight was gutsy beyond belief, to say nothing of what he accomplished by actually wounding Morgoth 8 times. At the same time, he never came to close to actually winning and really had no chance to do so. In some ways, Fingolfin's behavior here reminds me of Fëanor's mad charge to Angband after the Dagor-nuin-Giliath except my view is that the Noldor were better off without Fëanor while losing Fingolfin was a further blow to them in the aftermath of the Dagor Bragollach.
Well done! Such a great scene I had always focused on the physical wounds but the mental anguish and humiliation must have made an impact on the morale of his thralls.
I tend to see it as them suffering as he suffers, such is the power he has over their wills. Much like how I see fear of the sun as a consequence of their master fearing it - but that's just my own idea!
It's easy, looking at the surface of it, to see Fingolfin's fight with Morgoth as valiant, but ultimately a failure. This perspective on it is the first I've come across that (convincingly) frames it as both valiant *and* victorious -- not arguing that Fingolfin defeated Morgoth, but instead that Fingolfin set of a chain of events that saw Morgoth's own fear and cowardice grow, leading to more desperation and cruelty in his attacks on the kingdoms of Beleriand, and ultimately, to the intervention of the Valar and the War of Wrath.
@@EricBridges - Exactly, Tolkien never really says that it was pointless or foolish - all the language seems to point towards it being valiant - " a valiant effort " that was doomed to fail but a challenge that had to be made. It still worked out in the end despite his death.
This video was epic my man! Nothing short of an emotional rollercoaster ride. Brought to life, and solidified, exactly what It felt, to read this the first time in my young teens.
sush an epic character and tale! Still get chills each time i read this chapter, not for the fight itself but the ride to it....only momemt in the books that give me the same strong feeling and its more prolonged...is the battle of unnumbered tears...first when they kill Gwindors brother and they break the defence storming into the hoast of angbad, second when Fingon dies and last but UBERCHILLS when the men of Dor-lomin holds the fen of seret and Hurin throws his shield and cry "AURE-ENTULUVA"! day shall come again!
Easily my favorite scene in the Silmarillion. If you want to see/hear another cool depiction of this scene, you should check out the song "Time Stands Still (At The Iron Hill)" by Blind Guardian. If you can find the "Battle of Sudden Flame" instrumental track that goes before it as well, even better.
Each new video shows how much you love the source material and the other works of Prof. Tolkien. You find the most amazing art to mix with the words and text of what you’re discussing. Thank you for starting this series and I look forward to the next video.
Thanks, I've been watching a long time and I really enjoy your content. One fascinating detail that I've never heard mentioned is Fingolfin's sword Ringil. This is not just some random blade. Fingolfin forged it himself....with the help of Melkor! During the time of Melkors pardon, while he was trying to sew mistrust between Feanor and Fingolfin, he taught Fingolfin craft in weapon making and Ringil was the result of their joint efforts. This makes the 8 wounds received by Morgoth a deep irony, since they were inflicted by the very blade he had helped Fingolfin forge. I also think there is a comment here about the long term potential of the children of Illuvitar relative to the Valar and other Ainure. Ultimately they have gifts that will overmatch those that made the first music.
I don't know if any text confirms that idea but I too suspected that Ringil was forged during that time Melkor was sowing distrust among the Elves in Aman. It does add to that irony. And yes, I completely agree about the potential of the Children - something Melkor would overlook. He was so used to being able to challenge the Valar directly and now an Elf was the one challenging him. It makes me wonder how he would have reacted if it was Feanor who did reach him when he first came to Middle-earth.
You are welcome. I thought you meant I made 3-5 minute videos but I assume you are talking about other channels? I think my shortest was 8 and that felt really quick!
Great video. The lad had balls of mithril. Had he been made only twice greater than he was, who knows how things could have ended. How things would have turned out if Fingolfin hadn't challenged Morgoth would be interesting to think about. What serious damage could a Morgoth who didn't stay confined to Angband have done?
By that time Morgoth had already sunk much of his power into his "devices" - he would have avoided coming out of Angband but felt he had to come out to respond to the challenge of Fingolfin. He didn't have to prove he wasn't weak or a coward but he had pride and an ego the size of a mountain, he was definitely going to answer the challenge despite being fearful. The duel just really made sure that he was never going to leave again :D
Excellent work Mellon! Fingolfin was the best Gnome... I just read the Lays of Beleriand! Love it. Keep it up! Do a video on Ecthelion! " ...his name, to this very day, is a terror amongst the goblin ranks, and a war cry to the Noldor..."
I may do one on Ecthelion - it's tricky when it gets into the oldest text - but I am doing one on Glorfindel and a lot of his text is from the earliest versions and stories. I will see what I can do.
@@TheRedBook I'm sure whatever you decide will be bad ass. I've tried to imagine the full onslaught of the House of The Fountain, playing their flutes, Ecthelion halts them, everyone has stopped fighting, including Tuor. Then he gives the command to draw blades, and before he's done giving command, they're on top of the orcs. In that hour more orcs were slain, than ever before or will be in any battle...that's insane and totally cool. Thanks again bruddah for you are a Storm Crow no doubt about it:)
"And from my peripheral sight, I can no longer see a frail shell, devoid of its might--but rather a righteous being of defiance, who is not without the will to fight!"
Lord of all Noldor A star in the night And a bearer of hope He rides into his glorious battle alone Farewell to the valiant warlord The Fate of us all Lies deep in the dark When time stands still at the iron hill The Fate of us all Lies deep in the dark When time stands still at the iron hill The Elvenking's broken He stumbles and falls The most proud and most valiant His spirit survives Praise our king Praise our king Praise our king Praise our king
I just watched your last q and a livestream and totally agree that Sauron is more powerful than Fingolfin but Fingolfin would win a straight up battle against third age Sauron. Perhaps we differ about the utility of power rankings, even as a supplementary tool, but that doesn’t seem like a contradiction to me at all. Power, especially in Arda, is a multifasceted prism that defies simple RPG level systems.
4:40 This point always seemed odd to me. It's taken for granted in the Silmarillion that Feanor should succeed Finwe and that Maethros should succeed Feanor, but after thousands of years of immortal bliss why would the Noldor have any laws of succession at all?
Laws of Succession can arise due to unforeseen circumstances. I'm quite sure none of them thought Finwë would be slain. He was and Fëanor became the "head of the House of Finwë" - meaning the King of the Noldor. Think of it as more of a "Head of the House" and it makes more sense. It only gets confusing when we have two separate Kings in 2 different lands and one line effectively giving up any claim to it (The House of Fëanor).
Where'd you acquire that Silmarillion reading of the AMAZING Phil Dragash?! If he's done the Sil, I swear to Christ I'm gonna climax right now in the very spot!
I paid for it 😁- I work with Phil to narrate some passages for certain videos, then I add music and sfx. He hasn't and won't do The Silmarillion but you'll hear him read some of it on this channel.
Feanor claimed the Kingship, but this was not accepted by the Noldor who had been ruled by Fingolfin as King, after Finwe held himself unkinged. Feanor was never King of the Noldor. You are correct about Fingolfin being the first High-king of the Noldor.
Feanor is always included in lists of Kings despite many (not all) of the Noldor immediately looking towards Fingolfin as their King. This is the whole reason there is the decision of Maedhros who inherited from Feanor. So, I'm not wrong with what I said in the video.
@@TheRedBook Tolkien never lists or calls Feanor King. Feanor claimed the Kingship, this was rejected by the most part of the Noldor who would not renounce Fingolfin. At the time of the revolt of the Noldor there are, thus, two claimants for the crown. The dispute is resolved only after the death of Feanor and then Maedhros renouncing his claim, acknowledging the title is Fingolfin's by right.
I know all of this - I'm pretty well-versed in Tolkien's text - this isn't a wiki reciting channel. I never said the Noldor as a whole accepted Feanor. It doesn't matter that most never accepted him, Feanor claimed it and he should be listed - the fact that The Silmarillion doesn't say ALL took Fingolfin as King means there were those who did accept Feanor. "[Fëanor] will lead, and I will follow. May no new grief divide us". Also have to remember that Laws of Succession becomes a debate due to the death of Finwe in the first place.
He was foolish and heroic. In order to become a hero, you must be a fool in the first place. I really love your videos, partly because I could listen to your beautiful Scottish accent for hours on end.
@@TheRedBook People who say so must have no sense for the music of language whatsoever. Deaf like fish. Scottish sounds like a very ancient song. It is melodic, warm and friendly, hints at a good sense of humour, but also is very expressive and grounded and comes with a lot of depth and soul. Scottish is one of the most beautiful accents in the world. I am not even a native English speaker and I can hear that.
@@AnnieBlackmore - I'm sure I could let you hear some Scottish accents and you may not find them so beautiful :D ! The city I live in has a horrible accent! But I am from the other side of the country.
YES! Fingolfin for the wingolfin.
You hit the nail on the head with "a true king standing up to a false one". I'd say it's one of Tolkien's many perennial themes, one we can also see repeated with Aragorn vs Sauron or even Melkor vs Manwë, but I think it resonates so strongly here because of the inherent power differential between Fingolfin and Morgoth. Although diminished, Morgoth is more powerful than Fingolfin can conceive and by all accounts has just proven that by releasing Glaurung and breaking the siege. But a true king embodies something much greater, valor, strength of will, love for his people and ultimately Eru's rule over creation. This, I believe, is what elevates Fingolfin to the point that he's mistaken as Oromë, while Morgoth cowers as a "lord of slaves".
Very well put, couldn't agree more. I use that comparison in my "Of Aragorn and the Faint-hearted" video. Aragorn acting like a king before he is officially a king - Sauron claiming to be one but being a lord of fear and tyranny. It's a bit like how Tolkien seems to use height with nobility - but then you have figures like the Dark Lords who pervert the idea - being huge without any nobility. Symbols of corruption and lack of kingship.
Fingolfin’s stand against Morgoth is the single most badass moment in all of Tolkien’s writing
what always struck me about this duel is that it feels like an act of utter defiance. Fingolfin is righteously wrathful toward Morgoth, but he is also rebelling against his own being in a way. He's saying, "I'm only and Elf and you are a Valar but though I do not rue my shortcomings I declare you evil and challenge you." Very much echoed in Eowyn's laughing challenge to the Nazgul lord
I agree with that. The whole idea of fate standing in the way of Morgoth being defeated this way is meaningless when the person feels that he still needs to be challenged directly and can't just be left to continue his evil. It's defiance.
I‘ve just discovered the parallels between fingolfin in this scene and theoden in the battle of the pelennor fields: both of them are kings who ride into battle without hope of winning, they do it just to give their people at least some hope and to try and resist the enemy to the very end. Both of them think the end has come now. Tolkien even compares them both to orome. I don‘t know if it‘s just coincidence, but no matter if it is or not (i believe it‘s done on purpose), we can really see how heroic the desicion of theoden was to fight a battle which seemed to be lost. This courage isn‘t really appreciated by many people. (At least in my opinion)
True hero. He forsook his own life to became a symbol for all.
He made
the Noldor, the living and the fallen
His Father Finwë
his family
and his Brother Fëanor
PROUD
I was 14 years old in 1984 I loved Feanor to death he was just something else. But Fingolfin
Reading his battle against Morgoth I held hope knowing he would die and read the words slowly hoping maybe just maybe he could kill Morgoth!
I cried that day like a baby for a fictional character, I am 52 now crying to this video, that is the power of Tolkien that the rings of power will never capture.
The truly emotional connection to this world based on evil and good, beauty and corruption. No fantasy writer will ever come close ever. I love Erickson and Martin but Tolkien is the Greatest!
Btw my hate of the Valar is beyond measure. Do nothings… the elves what a species amazing!
Fingolfin the Fearless. My favourite.
Since you ask... 😀 I think Tolkien shows us that, in fighting a darkness you cannot see a way to defeat, there is a line or spectrum. On one end you have estel, hope/faith, a notion that however bad things get, that 'above all shadows rides the sun and stars forever dwell', as Sam puts it in his song. On the opposite end, you have the final despair that leaves you unable to fight at all, as happens with Denethor. And in between those extremes, you have the 'northern courage'. No belief that good will triumph, or even survive in the long term. That all things must end. And that the only right thing to do in the light of this grim reality is to fight, and to 'make such an end as will be worth a song' as Théoden puts it. And that those songs are both tragic and wonderful.
Fingolfin was the greatest King of the Noldor perhaps all High Elves. All things he did he did for his kind. Feanor "the greatest elf" killed his own people, besides creating beautiful works, at the end he was driven by wrath but by egoist wrath and greed. Fingolfin was at the end also driven by wrath before his death in combat. But his wrath was "just" if we could call it like this.
That's how I see it, that reference to the Valar in his wrath seems to indicate that anger is sometimes justified - and Morgoth had earned that anger.
Always such Feanor hate, forgetting that he was the instrument of all the Noldor's Valor in arda, and as per the silmarilion- was Eru's will. Perhaps not the kinslaying, but the valor of the Noldor and feanor in vengeance.
Only one other Child of Eru has been compared to Orome on horseback. Both had suffered tremendous loss. Both were doomed to fall before a Lord. of Darkness. However, both showed their courage and stood their ground, and in so doing became legends, and inspired other to follow in their wake. Perhaps on the last day, Orome and Nahal will lead Fingolfin and Rochallor, and Theodain and Snowmane on another charge. A victorious charge against the Shadow for a final time so that Arda can be made anew.
Fingolfin was doomed the moment he set foot on Beleriand. After the Battle of Sudden Flame, Fingolfin could no longer ignore or hope to deny the words of Manwe or escape the consequences of the slaying of their kin. The Halls of Mandos awaited one way or another. All that was left to him was to confront his father's murderer and the Enemy of the world and do what harm he could to that black foe. So, he did. And, ever after, his foe Morgoth sat deep down in the hell of his own making, cloaked in darkness to hide the cowardice in his evil heart until he was dragged out like a rabid dog wearing his iron crown around his collared neck.
Wow, what an excellent comment. ✌
Man got me in the feels.
My favourite elf. It really pains me when I read his final duel. But it’s such an incredible moment. Thanks for this 🧝♂️
Loved this video, sorry I didn't see it sooner. Tbh, Fingolfin ranks as my #1 favourite Silmarillion character of all times, and is possibly my favourite in the whole of the Legendarium, for the simple act of always turning the other cheek to Feanor, for this great act of defiance against Morgoth and for his unerring dedication to his people. Frankly, I think that if there was a little bit of Fingolfin in all of us, the whole of the world would be better for it.
My favourite Elf. And one of my favourite chapters of the Silmarillion!
This was excellently done, thank you. Ive always loved this story in the Silmarillion. Fingolfin was by far the greatest of the Noldor.
The seven wounds thing sounds like what Nuada did in the single combat where he lost his arm, inflicting seven mighty wounds before being defeated. I love the parallels with real world mythology in the Silmarillion.
Good catch - and Tolkien would be well aware of such a mythological figure as well. Such contests between figures like this are found in so many mythologies - the message behind the stories being so important.
It is a sign of strength is to cry out against fate rather than to bow your head and succumb. Fingolfin had other priorities than living forever, such as to demand justice (and vengeance) when the higher authorities thought themselves unable to do so instead.
So, in a sense, Fingolfin was like a Leonidas as depicted in 300 Spartans.
"The World will know that free men stood up to a tyrant, and before all is said and done, everyone will know that even a god-king can bleed."
It wasn't Fingolfin's goal to win a martial victory. It was to show the whole of Arda and beyond that Morgoth is not invincible and that, through this knowledge, a window of hope remained for the free people.
It’s wild how involved he was before he was High King, then he’s barely mentioned until he loses all hope and makes himself a legend fighting Morgoth.
Excellent video
Hope you enjoyed this first video in this new series. Already writing my next video for Tolkien Reading day but I hope to have another one of these Hero videos up in April. And a few people asked about doing the opposite - videos focused on particularly heinous or villainous acts. You only need to look at the videos on this channel to know that this will certainly be something interesting for me to make.
Channel support - www.patreon.com/TheRedBook
Your new series' first video did not disappoint, man! The quality of your commissioned art and editing did not disappoint. I would say Fingolfin's sacrifice was worth it. It is written that the Noldor's entire fight against Morgoth may have been doomed to fail, but through their evil they accomplished a greater good all the same: Keeping Morgoth and all his evil confined to Beleriand, even if that entire landmass had to be sunk at the end. Similarly, Fingolfin's last stand can be seen as suicidal and pointless, but I have no doubt the shame and fear he instilled in Morgoth both physically and mentally served a greater good: *Preventing Morgoth from taking a more hands-on approach and committing even more evil until he was finally overthrown.*
How do you think the duel of Fingolfin versus Morgoth should be acted out or animated? I've always imagined the scene being inspired by Oberyn Gregor "The Mountain" Clegane versus Oberyn "The Viper" Martell. Morgoth is like The Mountain, slow and lumbering, but 1 shot and you're dead. Fingolfin is like The Viper, weaker only by comparison, fast and deadly. The music would be John William's "Duel Of The Fates" from Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace. What do you think?
@@MistaGify - That does fit with that theme - greater good from all attempts to halt it - it's very fitting that it is an Elf who challenges Morgoth as well - no longer holding back all of the Valar on his own - he has trouble dealing with a courageous child of Eru coming to challenge him. And yes, that's a good point - I always saw Morgoth as not wanting to leave his citadel by that time anyway - but this event really really made sure he didn't leave it.
I think it may be difficult to act it out because I'm still curious about what size Morgoth actually is in the duel. Even though the art can be great, I never saw Morgoth as being 50 feet tall at this time. How can he put his foot on Fingolfin's neck if his foot is bigger than Fingolfin!? I see him as being very very large though, maybe like 10 feet+ (3M+). And yes, I see Fingolfin as being very fast, dextrous, fluid, and hitting Morgoth when it counts. All while Morgoth swings and slams into the ground - missing Fingolfin. When it comes to music, I'd probably have something a bit slower than Duel of the Fates - something a bit epic like the music I used here - gregorian choirs or something like that.
@@TheRedBook I'm glad you wholeheartedly agree with my interpretation of Fingolfin's sacrifice. As for an animated or live-action duel, there is a lot of room for creative liberty. The Silmarillion is similar to The Bible in being a very lean text. The Bible is very to-the-point and doesn't care about worldbuilding details like the Nephilin, Leviathan, or Behemoth. Similarly, Tolkien wrote in a manner where exact details of power levels and physical dimensions weren't important. As for the music, it should be as epic yet slower than Duel Of The Fates.
Say, as a guy playing Elden Ring, how about something straight out of Dark Souls?! Something epic and orchestral, yet mournful and melancholic for Fingolfin's final stand. What do you think about Gwyn's theme from DS1, or the Soul of Cinder and even Slave Knight Gael's themes??? I know the DS Trilogy is a dark fantasy as opposed to the high fantasy that is Middle-Earth, but it would be fitting, don't you think?
@@MistaGify Oh man. That idea about the music is excellent.
It's one thing to go into an epic fight with fast, loud, epic music. But scoring it with something slower and mournful would be phenomenal.
The way I imagine the scene being structured would have it start with Fingolfin walking across Anfauglith, with fury and determination coursing through him, and ending with Morgoth standing over Fingolfins body, viewed from a distant perspective (like, whoever it was that ended up recounting the tale to others).
Scoring a scene like that with something slow and tragic from the outset gives it an entirely different tone -- it's an acknowledgement to the audience of the unavoidable ending that's coming, and it's a way of underscoring that Fingolfin wasn't necessarily going there to *kill* Morgoth -- he wanted to make Morgoth feel the pain and fear he had been causing for everyone else.
That scoring choice alone would show that this fight isn't a failure because Fingolfin died, but a victory because Fingolfin fought.
Fingolfin is such a legendary character. Probably my favourite. Truly marvellous writing from Tolkien. Great Narrations too! A wonderful video!
Imagine a King who fights his own battles.
Wow, I got chills from both Phil's reading and your deeply meaningful interpretation. Amazing tribute to an amazing character!
Thanks Jessy. Adding Phil to the videos really does add to the quality in my own opinion. Wish I could work with him on every video !
It is interesting like:
1) Melkor didn't fight with Feanor in Aman for the Silmarils
2) Melkor is saved by the Balrog from Ungoliant
3) Melkor sends the Balrog(s) to fight against Feanor and mortally wound him (and he has very few elves).
4) Melkor fights with Fingolfin only because he cannot avoid the fight.
Melkor knows fear, he is the only Valar to know fear.
The reason is he fears he can be defeated by someone else with a doom/destiny stronger than his own.
True but I tend to view his fear as being closer to the potential defeat he can suffer now that he has created "Morgoth's Ring". He can actually be forced from his form and diminish - something that wasn't possible beforehand. He would then crave the return to that form - as all do who become accustomed to their incarnation.
edit - should add that I agree with you in terms of fear of someone like Hurin or Turin- more related to destiny of man - something Fingfolin wouldn't share in
He alone as a character made me want to read and research all Tolkiens books, Morgoth fans may have a different opinion... he's like 'Dominic Torreto' of the first age Family over everything he didn't think twice when push came to shove. Feanor on the other hand only seemed to care for his father and his possessions, willing to send all the eldar (his sons especially) to their doom for revenge and to claim them back.
That was very good stuff. Fingolfin is a great doomed hero. I was so glad you began with that section of “The Lays of Beleriand. “ it is all great poetry but Fingolfins story reminds me so much of Sir Patrick Spens. I know Tolkien aimed to write mythology for England, but this stirs something very Scottish in my soul, the doomed fight taken up. So near and yet so far. These things feel so Scottish to me. Another wonder of the professor, his myth touches us all in a deep way. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Oh there’s no doubt that Fingolfin acted in desperation. But this duel was the beginning of the end of Morgoth. If Morgoth could be humiliated in combat by an elf then there was no doubt that his power was no longer what it once was, Fingolfin gave hope to the elves that one day Morgoth would be defeated and he shamed the Valar who thought Morgoth was still the mighty Melkor of the past and continued to allow him to act without rebuke.
Making Morgoth cry out in pain & spilling even a drop of his blood, despite losing the duel, doubtless gave his people hope & the will to fight on.
Perhaps, even more importantly, it drove a wedge through Morgoth’s confidence.
If you bloody the nose of a bully, he may still trounce you, but you’ve exposed him for what he is to everyone who could see it, & especially to himself, & thus his weakness is laid bare.
Unarguably a heroic act. Epic in nature.
Bravo!
I can hardly wait for more in this series.
Exactly, it's always worth standing up even if you won't win - Morgoth wasn't allowed to take an inch without being battled and this was the first real in your face challenge he had faced since the Valar came for him. Almost like a wake up call since he was actually injured in the challenge.
Fighting back in the face of despair is always a hero's battle. Greta video!
Red Book, you are amazing. Thanks for this
Thank you for watching :)
Sometimes you just have to stand up and do what you must do. Fingolfin did just that.
*Fingolfin was one of the greatest heroes in all the Legendarium, and not just because of this final act of his*
1. Under severe provocation from Feanor (a literal sword held to his chest from his older half-brother when he had done nothing wrong and when the drawing of weapons on other Elves was unknown), he chose not to fight back but restrained any negative thoughts he might have had
2. He forgave Feanor later and even submitted to him as the older brother and leader after this.
3. He was not keen to go to Middle-Earth when Feanor rallied the Noldor, as his heart warned him against it. However, he went anyway, as he did not want to abandon his people. Unlike others like Feanor & his sons, and Galadriel, he was not eager to seek out lands of his own to rule at this point.
4. Upon being abandoned and betrayed by Feanor (even after mistakenly supporting his forces during the Kinslaying at Alqualonde), Fingolfin regardless led his people on foot across one of the most terrible places in Arda, the Helcaraxe. This has to be one of the greatest journeys ever made by any Children of Iluvatar.
5. He dared on landing for the first time in Middle Earth to go straight to the gates of Angband to challenge Morgoth in his very fortress. Although Morgoth did not rise to the challenge at the time, it was still an incredibly brave thing to do even with an army at his back
6. He besieged Angband for 400+ years and kept Morgoth and his servants bottled in, something that was not achieved by the Children of Iluvatar ever again without Divine help.
7. He tried to bring the Elves (and not just the Noldor) together in Beleriand, with his feast of peace and kinship
8. His mighty children (and their progeny) who would be some of the greatest characters in Middle Earth history
9. Even when he was undisputed High King of the Noldor in Middle Earth, he did not seek vengeance or retribution against the Sons of Feanor (especially thinking of those who were not Maedhros, who willingly gave his claim to that title to his uncle)
10. And yes, the final great fight against Morgoth. I don't call it reckless or an act of suicide. If he really believed that Morgoth, having broken through the siege of Angband and decimated the Noldor, was about to overrun them all and destroy them utterly, he had nothing to lose; and although it was extremely unlikely that he would defeat a Vala, that only makes his heroism even greater in my eyes. It was also possible that, knowing he would die, the situation and his sacrifice might move the Valar to move against Morgoth. If so, he was wrong about that, but they did intervene later on in similar circumstances when Earendil, Fingolfin's descendent, made a similar desperate act. Not only was the act heroic but it was also effective to a point. To permanently injure a god eight times, to be crushed to ones' knees by something with the weight of a fallen hill and to rise again with his own power three times...that's some serious power. No wonder that the servants of Morgoth fled before him thinking he was Orome himself. In injuring Morgoth, he not only achieved something only a select handful of others did (Ungoliant, Tulkas, Eonwe and finally Thorondor on Fingolfin's death - all of whom were greater than he), the psychological impact of this was such that Morgoth never came out to face an enemy himself ever again. Imagine if Morgoth had taken to going around himself and influencing the outcomes of battles directly with his presence. That he did not was largely down to Fingolfin, because even a mere Elf could humble Morgoth and cause him permanent pain. And while his fall undoubtedly dismayed the Noldor, his heroism would have given them hope and the will to continue fighting.
Greatest fight in fantasy literature
"... A true king standing against a false one..." (12:53) That is reminiscent of Aragorn challenging Sauron at the end of the Third Age. Never occurred to me before now.
As to your question at the end, I would say that making Morgoth bleed *absolutely* made a difference. It showed the rest of Beleriand that Morgoth was not untouchable, that both his body and his pride were vulnerable, even to the likes of Elves and Men. It reminds me (a little) of the Greco-Italian war of 1940, when the Italian invasion of Greece was more-or-less crushed by unexpectedly strong Greek resistance, and is frequently referred to as the Axis powers' first major loss in WWII. The battle itself may not have greatly altered the outcome of the war as a whole, but the news of a seemingly-unstoppable force _stopped_ sent a message that would have a massive morale effect on both sides of the war.
True, I make that comparison in another video (Of Aragorn and the faint hearted). Tolkien really showing us kingly qualities when standing against evil.
Cheers, all hail high king folgonfin .
The reason Finarfin is important is he didn't take the easy route taking the Ships of the Teleri, he walked through Hellcaraxe like did Morgoth.
He paid the price in full to leave Aman where Feanor made the Teleri pay the price.
He was there to avenge his father, not to get back his "precious"
In this Feanor is more like Sauron, he put some of himself in his creation, so he cannot create the same thing again.
I’ve always thought that Fingolfin was quite badass. It’s just to bad he was killed so early in the timeline
One of the greatest elves of Middle earth.
Maybe one of the greatest elves period.
Love was always his motivation.
Honour and sacrifice his actions.
We should make up a name for such cases when your interpretation of an episode makes stronger impression than Tolkien's original version - perhaps, "it has been officially TheRedBooked"? :D
Personally, I used to think that it was a suicidal act of despair, and Fingolfin could do more good staying alive. But you made me see the other side: he broke the ice by showing that the Dark Lord is not invincible. He can be wounded, he feels pain and he bleeds just like any other enemy. Still reckless heroism - but not useless. Thank you for this insight :)
P.S. Phil's narration is awesome - much different from what it sounded like in my head, but way cooler. I wish I live to the day we hear him reading the whole Silmarillion.
I certainly have no issue with people seeing the despair and grief, almost a 'wasted death' - it fits with the somber mood of The Silmarillion. Still, I see the heroism there - that defiance. The lasting effect on Morgoth really cements that for me. It wasn't just smashing down the King and going about his business. Morgoth really suffered.
If only. If I had the cash I'd commission an entire reading of it :D !
Agreed! It struck me that it may be at this point that Morgoth did not realize he could be wounded physically. Not only that but he did not heal from the cuts of the elvish blade. Leaving him with a permanent limp and shaming him this way may have been a very great step towards his defeat.
I hit the like button before I had reached the end of the first minute! 👍Great video.
I'm always impressed with the quality of your videos they were already high quality but they keep getting better and better
I wish the view count reflected that :D but I'm happy that people notice a step up in quality as more videos are released.
@@TheRedBook You have to start somewhere…
@@WraYth-1776 Indeed - the channel isn't even a year old yet - getting close though :)
@@TheRedBook
Sorry I couldn't watch your videos over the last 40 or so days because I gave up watching Tolkien video for Lent this year.😢
Well, I am back and catching up. Your videos are truly special. I really missed watching them.
Fingolfin played his diss track right in front of Morgoth's door. Morgoth got the win and a gangster lean to show for it, but the Lord of the Eagles beheld the rap battle, and heard the fire of Fingolfin's mixtape, and he uploaded it to Spotify. Morgoth knew then there was nothing he could do to stop it from going viral. He spent the rest of his days while his realm lasted brooding in the dark, all his hate bent towards the comments section.
The points Tolkien(s) made about Feanor are the contrasts between the fool and the hero. Feanor wasn't valiant, he was scornful and vengeful. Correct me if I'm wrong, outside of his creations Feanor's greatest strength was the power his voice commanded. But his actions spoke louder than his words, he was a fool. Fingolfin kept his silence, and even through his wrath he acted as a knight of chivalry. Fingolfin is the definition of a hero. ✌
Yes, I have an idea for a video about the power of speech and Feanor would be included in that - a power of persuasion even when in their hearts people following him know it is wrong. Even though I am a big fan of the character of Feanor, there is no doubt that he is not heroic!
@@TheRedBook that would be a great video! I love the explanation of Saruman's voice, that it is not 'hypnotic' but persuasive.
Fëanor was insanely valiant too, he would have faced Morgoth any time.
@@kauetadaieski3131 I don't think any of Fëanor's actions were truly valiant, that would come as secondary to his arrogance. He is great but too corrupt and adversarial.
I got super excited for a second, I thought Phil Dragash had done the entire Silmarillion. That would be just incredible.
I think the main reason it wouldn't happen is due to legal issues
@@TheRedBook That's understandable. Thank you for commissioning Fingolfin vs Morgoth, that was epic.
Yeeesss!!! Mind-blowing storytelling!
Time stands still, at the Iron Hill!
The Fate of us all
Lies deep in the dark
I think that Fingolfin's initiative also played a role in the success of Beren and Lúthien.
A good point!
I really like this new series. Can't wait for next one.
I like them too but they seem to be my least popular videos. I'm going to judge them based on the videos that are released around them going forward.
I think he fulfilled his highest destiny in honour n strength of a Valar.
Great work! I was very sad to find out that there is not currently a Silmarillion audiobook read by Phil Dragash
Would be a lot of work for no pay off, would have to just be a passion project - plus the estate would do their best to not have it shared around. I'll be working with Phil to get quite a few passages for this series though.
@@TheRedBook A noble cause.
I've always thought Fingolfin's duel with Morgoth was both heroic and reckless. Riding to Angband and challenging Morgoth to fight was gutsy beyond belief, to say nothing of what he accomplished by actually wounding Morgoth 8 times. At the same time, he never came to close to actually winning and really had no chance to do so. In some ways, Fingolfin's behavior here reminds me of Fëanor's mad charge to Angband after the Dagor-nuin-Giliath except my view is that the Noldor were better off without Fëanor while losing Fingolfin was a further blow to them in the aftermath of the Dagor Bragollach.
Well done! Such a great scene I had always focused on the physical wounds but the mental anguish and humiliation must have made an impact on the morale of his thralls.
I tend to see it as them suffering as he suffers, such is the power he has over their wills. Much like how I see fear of the sun as a consequence of their master fearing it - but that's just my own idea!
It's easy, looking at the surface of it, to see Fingolfin's fight with Morgoth as valiant, but ultimately a failure. This perspective on it is the first I've come across that (convincingly) frames it as both valiant *and* victorious -- not arguing that Fingolfin defeated Morgoth, but instead that Fingolfin set of a chain of events that saw Morgoth's own fear and cowardice grow, leading to more desperation and cruelty in his attacks on the kingdoms of Beleriand, and ultimately, to the intervention of the Valar and the War of Wrath.
@@EricBridges - Exactly, Tolkien never really says that it was pointless or foolish - all the language seems to point towards it being valiant - " a valiant effort " that was doomed to fail but a challenge that had to be made. It still worked out in the end despite his death.
Righteous anger. Imagine how things might have been different if Fingolfin had not wounded Morgoth so...
A great video and timely celebration of heroism.
My videos can't always be doom and gloom :D
Can't wait! Cheers mate
This video was epic my man! Nothing short of an emotional rollercoaster ride. Brought to life, and solidified, exactly what It felt, to read this the first time in my young teens.
Thanks Jonathan :D
Your dramatic interpretation gave me chills. I love it.
Got Phil to thank for that - I just added the music and effects to his great reading :D
sush an epic character and tale! Still get chills each time i read this chapter, not for the fight itself but the ride to it....only momemt in the books that give me the same strong feeling and its more prolonged...is the battle of unnumbered tears...first when they kill Gwindors brother and they break the defence storming into the hoast of angbad, second when Fingon dies and last but UBERCHILLS when the men of Dor-lomin holds the fen of seret and Hurin throws his shield and cry "AURE-ENTULUVA"! day shall come again!
This video really brings the duel to life. I will be sharing it to as many people that I can.
Thanks a lot :D wanted to do something more than just recount the tale - with the help of Phil's great narration.
Easily my favorite scene in the Silmarillion. If you want to see/hear another cool depiction of this scene, you should check out the song "Time Stands Still (At The Iron Hill)" by Blind Guardian. If you can find the "Battle of Sudden Flame" instrumental track that goes before it as well, even better.
I liked Blind Guardian before I even got into Tolkien! Great songs and a great album.
He created a precedent.
Looking forward to the next videos on heroes in middle earth, great video
Each new video shows how much you love the source material and the other works of Prof. Tolkien. You find the most amazing art to mix with the words and text of what you’re discussing. Thank you for starting this series and I look forward to the next video.
Thank you Scott :) I'm certainly pretty obsessed with the source material and don't even try to hide it! Thanks for watching.
I enjoyed the artistic and narrative collaborations you all did as well.
Had to listen a second time, because I got caught up in just the art the first time through, lol.
A fine start for a new series
I hope so :) already got April's character decided!
Thanks, I've been watching a long time and I really enjoy your content. One fascinating detail that I've never heard mentioned is Fingolfin's sword Ringil. This is not just some random blade. Fingolfin forged it himself....with the help of Melkor! During the time of Melkors pardon, while he was trying to sew mistrust between Feanor and Fingolfin, he taught Fingolfin craft in weapon making and Ringil was the result of their joint efforts. This makes the 8 wounds received by Morgoth a deep irony, since they were inflicted by the very blade he had helped Fingolfin forge. I also think there is a comment here about the long term potential of the children of Illuvitar relative to the Valar and other Ainure. Ultimately they have gifts that will overmatch those that made the first music.
I don't know if any text confirms that idea but I too suspected that Ringil was forged during that time Melkor was sowing distrust among the Elves in Aman. It does add to that irony. And yes, I completely agree about the potential of the Children - something Melkor would overlook. He was so used to being able to challenge the Valar directly and now an Elf was the one challenging him. It makes me wonder how he would have reacted if it was Feanor who did reach him when he first came to Middle-earth.
12:14 awesome that you used that Morgoth piece, it is one of my all-time interpretations of him
Love that one as well, definitely in my top 3 Morgoth images!
What a fantastic video! There is something to be said about those who can say in one paragraph what others tell in one page.
Perfect character to start off this series!
"And Morgoth came."
Superb as always..
I love the new series idea. Your channel always impresses! Thank you for not making anymore 3-5 minute videos. Take care!
You are welcome. I thought you meant I made 3-5 minute videos but I assume you are talking about other channels? I think my shortest was 8 and that felt really quick!
@@TheRedBook Sorry I was typing on the fly. I should have been more concise. Iam glad you understood. Take care.
Great video. The lad had balls of mithril. Had he been made only twice greater than he was, who knows how things could have ended. How things would have turned out if Fingolfin hadn't challenged Morgoth would be interesting to think about. What serious damage could a Morgoth who didn't stay confined to Angband have done?
By that time Morgoth had already sunk much of his power into his "devices" - he would have avoided coming out of Angband but felt he had to come out to respond to the challenge of Fingolfin. He didn't have to prove he wasn't weak or a coward but he had pride and an ego the size of a mountain, he was definitely going to answer the challenge despite being fearful. The duel just really made sure that he was never going to leave again :D
Impressive.. top quality this is and the details are brilliant. again a fine video.who to include in this series?..Frodo should be sooner or later.
Quite a few figures I could include over the ages - I estimate there could be about 20 videos at least. Frodo will definitely be there!
Nicely done
Excellent work Mellon! Fingolfin was the best Gnome... I just read the Lays of Beleriand! Love it. Keep it up! Do a video on Ecthelion!
" ...his name, to this very day, is a terror amongst the goblin ranks, and a war cry to the Noldor..."
I may do one on Ecthelion - it's tricky when it gets into the oldest text - but I am doing one on Glorfindel and a lot of his text is from the earliest versions and stories. I will see what I can do.
@@TheRedBook I'm sure whatever you decide will be bad ass. I've tried to imagine the full onslaught of the House of The Fountain, playing their flutes, Ecthelion halts them, everyone has stopped fighting, including Tuor. Then he gives the command to draw blades, and before he's done giving command, they're on top of the orcs. In that hour more orcs were slain, than ever before or will be in any battle...that's insane and totally cool. Thanks again bruddah for you are a Storm Crow no doubt about it:)
Keep up the good work!
Loved it
Brilliant as usual!thank you for these videos 👊
Thanks for watching Mark, glad you liked this one :D
"And from my peripheral sight, I can no longer see a frail shell, devoid of its might--but rather a righteous being of defiance, who is not without the will to fight!"
Fingolfin = Badass
Lord of all Noldor
A star in the night
And a bearer of hope
He rides into his glorious battle alone
Farewell to the valiant warlord
The Fate of us all
Lies deep in the dark
When time stands still at the iron hill
The Fate of us all
Lies deep in the dark
When time stands still at the iron hill
The Elvenking's broken
He stumbles and falls
The most proud and most valiant
His spirit survives
Praise our king
Praise our king
Praise our king
Praise our king
Great album :D
@@TheRedBook So glad you agree! I have three things in common with you now lol. Scottish, and a fan of Blind Guardian and Tolkien.
Oh another Scot. Where abouts are you?
@@TheRedBook Living in England now actually but I’m from East Lothian, just outside Edinburgh
I'm from Ayrshire but on the dreaded north east coast at the moment!
Nice work dude thanks
Fingolfin and Feanor my 2 favorite characters
To summarise Feanor's reponse to Mandos' Doom: "...yeah, whatever, but at least we'll have no cowards nor any fear of cowards among us".
I just watched your last q and a livestream and totally agree that Sauron is more powerful than Fingolfin but Fingolfin would win a straight up battle against third age Sauron. Perhaps we differ about the utility of power rankings, even as a supplementary tool, but that doesn’t seem like a contradiction to me at all. Power, especially in Arda, is a multifasceted prism that defies simple RPG level systems.
can you do fingon next he extremely underappriated
He won't be the next video but he'll definitely be in this series.
What a badass.
4:40 This point always seemed odd to me. It's taken for granted in the Silmarillion that Feanor should succeed Finwe and that Maethros should succeed Feanor, but after thousands of years of immortal bliss why would the Noldor have any laws of succession at all?
Laws of Succession can arise due to unforeseen circumstances. I'm quite sure none of them thought Finwë would be slain. He was and Fëanor became the "head of the House of Finwë" - meaning the King of the Noldor. Think of it as more of a "Head of the House" and it makes more sense. It only gets confusing when we have two separate Kings in 2 different lands and one line effectively giving up any claim to it (The House of Fëanor).
Where the hell did you find that phil dragash silmarillion audiobook? I cant find it anywhere
There isn't one. I commissioned Phil to record for my channel.
Ohhhh it’s so nice to hear a friendly voice. These last two weeks have been a complete sh*t show.
Where'd you acquire that Silmarillion reading of the AMAZING Phil Dragash?! If he's done the Sil, I swear to Christ I'm gonna climax right now in the very spot!
I paid for it 😁- I work with Phil to narrate some passages for certain videos, then I add music and sfx. He hasn't and won't do The Silmarillion but you'll hear him read some of it on this channel.
Hold up!!! Where can I find Phil’s Silmarillion??? Does anyone know???? Please I’ve looked, I didn’t even know it was a thing.
You can't. I have commissioned him for these readings and added music and effects to it. He hasn't recorded The Silmarillion.
@@TheRedBook you’re a savage haha. That’s awesome. That dude is the real deal.
for the algorithm.
Feanor claimed the Kingship, but this was not accepted by the Noldor who had been ruled by Fingolfin as King, after Finwe held himself unkinged. Feanor was never King of the Noldor. You are correct about Fingolfin being the first High-king of the Noldor.
Feanor is always included in lists of Kings despite many (not all) of the Noldor immediately looking towards Fingolfin as their King. This is the whole reason there is the decision of Maedhros who inherited from Feanor. So, I'm not wrong with what I said in the video.
@@TheRedBook Tolkien never lists or calls Feanor King. Feanor claimed the Kingship, this was rejected by the most part of the Noldor who would not renounce Fingolfin. At the time of the revolt of the Noldor there are, thus, two claimants for the crown. The dispute is resolved only after the death of Feanor and then Maedhros renouncing his claim, acknowledging the title is Fingolfin's by right.
I know all of this - I'm pretty well-versed in Tolkien's text - this isn't a wiki reciting channel. I never said the Noldor as a whole accepted Feanor. It doesn't matter that most never accepted him, Feanor claimed it and he should be listed - the fact that The Silmarillion doesn't say ALL took Fingolfin as King means there were those who did accept Feanor. "[Fëanor] will lead, and I will follow. May no new grief divide us". Also have to remember that Laws of Succession becomes a debate due to the death of Finwe in the first place.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Fuck yes.
👍
He was foolish and heroic. In order to become a hero, you must be a fool in the first place. I really love your videos, partly because I could listen to your beautiful Scottish accent for hours on end.
Haha well, that's always good to hear. Better than the comments saying I sound like I am on drugs! :D
@@TheRedBook People who say so must have no sense for the music of language whatsoever. Deaf like fish. Scottish sounds like a very ancient song. It is melodic, warm and friendly, hints at a good sense of humour, but also is very expressive and grounded and comes with a lot of depth and soul. Scottish is one of the most beautiful accents in the world. I am not even a native English speaker and I can hear that.
@@AnnieBlackmore - I'm sure I could let you hear some Scottish accents and you may not find them so beautiful :D ! The city I live in has a horrible accent! But I am from the other side of the country.
next Fëanor