Great question. I too have this conversation often. I make all the same points Kenny is, in addition, on the insurance questions, I relate their question to the type of aircraft and the level of experience. Just like with a car, the type of car and age (experience of the driver) dictates the insurance cost! Top end sports car, young driver under 25? Big insurance costs. Same thing for a helicopter. a) Type of helo. Determines the basic cost of the "aircraft", then there is the cost to insure you!. As a new pilot, w/less than 250 hours, you're going to get racked on the insurance cost just like a young driver. You're just inexperienced. In this industry, it's all about hours. More time you've flown, the cheaper your rates will be. So thinking your training will be cheaper if you own the helo, not so much. People only look at those costs the flight schools charge, but forget about the costs behind the scenes of Maintenance, parts and inspections you don't see and are not responsible for as a renter. Hope this helps to add a little bit extra to Kennys talk. If your adamant about buying a chopper, Great! Do your homework and get lots of input from as many users as you can. It's a big responsibility. Ron Baier Chief Pilot Canyon State Aero
Beach Geek yeah still expensive regardless. In this case we are talking new pilot. Takes a long time for a private owner to get to 500 to 1000 hours. The expense is huge to get to where your insurance goes down!
I’d like to share my experience. First of all piston helicopters have little scope outside of flight school use. I once ferried an R22 for almost 800nm. Needless to say I would have rather walked the distance. Just to double check a few weeks ago I flew about 4 hours in another R22 and when I got home I was still sore. This to mean that the limitations that a piston 2 seater imposed on the owner are severe. The 22 is an AMAZING instructional machine (even though it was not meant to be). What makes it a great teacher are the characteristics (limits) that do not make it good for much else. It’s light (wind is to be accounted for more than in heavier machines) the power in never in excess (limited) it only has minimum space for two and carries no luggage. If the pIlot and passenger are not featherweights, the loadable fuel is not enough to get much done. Can’t do any real commercial (money maker) work. These are the reasons that make me feel that the only “reasonable” use for a two seater piston is teaching. But again if money is NOT the issue then even a mosquito makes sense.
Well I flew an R22 from Phoenix to Longbeach with my instructor, both of us with a bag under our seats with enough stuff for a three day trip, so not sure about your "no luggage" remark. I do agree that spending an excessive amount of time in the little guy will make it hard to walk afterwards though, as I discovered myself flying a Mariner from Florida to Virginia once,...again with two people and baggage though :-) As for its uses, it seems to be quite popular in Australia mustering cattle, plus the little guy does tons of photo flights for schools as well. With regards to excess power, on my last dual flight I had no problem pulling into a hover at 1,500 feet agl with power to spare, so,... Anyway, I found the R22 to be the perfect helicopter to rent for a one hour joyride up to the city, every once and a while, and would own one if I were rich,...or at least upper middle class. 😗
Joseph...Right on. My ‘experience’ (my FIRST C/country even) was ferrying an R22 from Prescott, Az TO Kalispell, Mt. TOOK 6 days because of a LOT of bad WX. The actual flying was great...really enjoyed it but I can’t say it was comfortable by any stretch. The only ‘plus’ behind the smaller helos in THESE situations is fuel consumption is such that you’re looking for terra firma and a fuel stop...often.
Great advice, as always, Kenny. In general, helicopters cost 4 to 5 times as much per hour as the cost a 6 place Cessna or Piper airplane. Buy a small airplane and get your hours up to at least 500 to 1,000 hours before switching to and especially buying a helicopter, but take occasional lessons in the helicopter from a flight school to get an "add on rating", private, commercial, ATP, etc. It is best to get your commercial and instrument in an airplane, then the add on for helicopter is much cheaper. Do a LOT of "shopping" before jumping into the "hot water". As you say Kenny, if it is cheap, there is some large expense that is close to due. There are BAD DEALERS, and bad owners as well, that will sell a pile of scrap metal for a premium price. As the phrase goes, BUYER BEWARE!!! Spend some money on research before you throw you money into a "black hole of debt". Fly safely and carefully. Happy New Year!!!
If you look at the rental agreement, there is a lot of things you can't do, Also the price to replace the helicopter is more than you would pay if you bought it. So my question is if you plan on putting one to work is it worth it then? Thanks Kenny
Plan on putting it to work? Well that sounds good in theory! That's what I was gonna do with the one that bankrupted me. If you counting on someone else providing income for your helicopter, you still need disposable income for all the what if's...
Couldn't agree more, Kenny. I'll never understand why some folks think the numbers won't apply to their dream. Call it wishful thinking, I suppose. Then they buy an aircraft that would be great for someone that actually could afford it. That airplane suffers by being parked in a hangar (for a while) then tied down outside when they realize they can't even afford the hangar on top of monthly premium and insurance. That aircraft which was perfectly usable has now become a money pit simply because it was taken and put in a proverbial cage like a bird. The problem persists when that owner decides to rid themselves of the headache and the next dreamer comes along and thinks they can afford it, get a "cheap" annual and fly for pennies. The cycle repeats. As an A&P IA, I have no problem nor do I feel it's my responsibility to help someone afford their aircraft. Not everyone has to go for an airplane ride. If you don't like the bill, take on a partner, go back to renting, or find another hobby.
I came up with an annual figure of around $26,500 for my Enstrom 280FX. these are fixed cost's that I have little control over. Insurance, hangar rent, Annual fee etc etc.I have in this cost some minimal fee for time removed as flying hours (hobbs) increases. You must include this. This does not include any Loan payment if you should have one.
I went the route of purchasing with a partner when I got my License originally. we both got our time in it and license before the franklin engine came apart in flight. Fortunately the insurance paid us back for the full purchase price when the helicopter was demolished in "transit" to the holding area after the Auto Rotation was complete. Always hire someone who knows how to move these things properly!
@@davidmccurdy5969 how many feet above ground level was it when the engine failed? I would really appreciate knowing what took place throughout that mishap and what could've been the cause. Hope no one was hurt.
@@anthonyo.thector32, in my case the engine had become weak and developed a fracture in the case which eventually separated. Unfortunately in flight at about 700 feet agl. I try to leave myself some height. Altitude is your friend in most cases.
I have $2.7M budgeted for a 2018 - 2020 Bell 505 Jetranger. Is this a good call? I know I can get it cheaper than what I've got saved, but I know there will be significant costs for maintenance, a pilot to _spot_ me until I finish pilot school and a bunch of other costs I'm likely not privy to or haven't realized exist yet. I will have a regular flight between Northeast Ohio and Fort Wayne Indiana starting this summer. Am I an idiot, or what, I'd like your take sir.
Hi, with all due respect. When I went to get my Heli Endorsement in Sydney Australia. I did my first 15 hours in a R-22, (horrible Helo but if you an fly a R-22, you can fly and hello, so it is important to at least get to learn to hover in a R2 before continuing your taring in say a Bell Jetranger as a Jetranger is to easy to fly and does not teach you how to really fly like a R-22!. I was convinced I really love flying Helos and then I bought a Bell 206 to complete my Helo Endorsement. That was 1987. I ended up owning my Bell-26 Jetranger VH-AND Bell #495, A Bell-206 A which I had completely rebuilt, including replacing the big A instrument panel with the current smaller B/C Model instrument consul, immediately after purchase to make it a Bell-206 B11 with a C-20B Turbine Engine. Being an A model it is 150 kgs lighter than a normal factory B Model and even with High Skids, at max continue Torque of 85% it flew at a TAS, True Air Speed of 112 knots, not bad for Jet ranger! Anyway, I ended up owing VH-AND for 21 years and flew over 3,500 hours in her. VH-AND never stopped or failed to start fly even once in the 21 years! Always buy a Bell, they don't stop !!!!! Now I eventually got an aviation Department for my business and we got a Maintaince Authority from CASA, the Australian version of the FAA and we had a full in house engineering team to maintain my growing collection of aircraft which then included a Citation Jet, L-39, Cessna A-37 and two Bell Cobra Attack Helos, yes two completely original BELL AH-1F/S Ex- USMC and a supersonic Mirage III I/O Ex-RAAF. Having your own engineering team give peace of mind over the quality of the maintaince of complex turbine Helos and Fast Jet aircraft and our business jet. So, short story is, if you have Jet Fuel in your veins, it is cheaper to buy a Helo to learn to fly in, plus then your family and friends can learn to fly, more economically because the cost is now spread over a number of pilots being trained , plus you can also charter out your Helo for income. Chartering out, if done professional can and will bring in sufficiently cash flow so my entire aviation operations became cash flow positive. Which at hat point, my own flying ended up costing Zero because of the charter income from Chartering our my aircraft to Charter Clients. In Australia we can take the public flying for adventure flight experiences in ex-military aircraft for payment and people will pay $3,000 for half an hour in the L-39 and the A-37! That is more per hour than the Citation Jet's charter cost per hour. To give some scale, you can charter a Gulfstream IV for $8,000.00 per hour. But, this strategy only works if you are will to really deep dive head first in to the aviation business and commit to the enormous up front cost of ramping up to set up a full in house engineering. So, yes, buying to learn to fly can work if one is fully committed to aviation as a sheriff life passion! Looking back, I wouldn't change thing, to me flying is the most amazing thing I have in my life. Aviation is even more important to me than my profession ! I wish everyone that is thin king abut learning n to fly, stop the nuking about it! Just go get a "trail flight" and believe me you will get completely hooked and you will never look back !!!!!!
The biggest reason "aircraft/FAA-PMA certified" parts - even oil filters - cost 5 times more than their comparable automotive products is the product liability insurance premiums that factor into the cost of manufacturing them. In addition, the mounds of paperwork and engineering effort to get that FAA-PMA approval has to be amortized into each part produced and sold.
Kind of figured this would be the case with ownership. Guess I better look at moving to areas with helicopter rental/clubs available after I get the PPL out of the way. Not much of an aviation community where I'm currently living despite there being an air force base with flight activity all the time nearby.
A Bell Jetranger III or even a Bell L-4 Long Ranger will cost $150,000.00 per annum, to fly say 150 hours per annum, ($1,200.00 per hour plus fuel at 100 litres per hour for the B-206 and 150 litres an hour for a Bell L-4) not including what ever your cost of the capital required to purchase the Helo ! A used Bell 206 B III in good condition is about $600,000.00 and a good used Bell L-4, runs about $1m. Bell L-4 is a extremely capable Helo that is much sort after in the Charter market.
It’s way cheaper to rent than to own if you fly below: That’s my opinion break even point: Piston-heli: 200h/year Turbine-heli: 400h/year Only the Insurance : 10% of the value for piston, 2% for turbine helicopter (in Germany, as a IR CPL) Same in the States?
hey Kenny, do you anyone that has built their own bird? Safari, RW Exec, etc... your thoughts on going that route? (strictly for fun, obviously) Many thanks !
You are on the same level as me . . The mechanical engineer in me screems everytime I see the price for a helicopter component! Or plane component for that matter! Just because its labled for aviation, they get excited with the price tag! I just recently I saw a guy spend 300k for 'kit plane' and figures he was throwing out for the parts and labor were just comical! Ripped off, is an understatement.. More money than sense it seems . . .
If the definition of a boat is a Hole in the water that money gets poured into, then the definition of a helicopter is a Hole in the sky that money gets sucked up into... Train in the other guy's helicopter bang his bird up, not yours LOL
I think in the aircraft world it can be cheaper to buy, learn on your own and once certified, fly in your own aircraft. But, due to the cost differences, it isn't the same in the helicopter world.
To add to this hourly usage estimating, at least in the airplane arena, between 100 - 200 hours a year usage you are better off joining a flying club then just renting from a FBO or school. Most flying clubs are a little bit cheaper because they don't have the overhead, the building, to add to their expenses. The last number used to be 200 hours. If you do fly over 200 hours a year, you may be better off owning. That will obvious depend on your experience as far as what the insurance will cost you. You really have to sit down and do the math to see whether it benefits you or not. Some people own and also lease their aircraft back to a FBO or school to try to recoup some of their expenses. Depending on the aircraft, it may break even or not.
Kenny is giving bad financial advice here. Renting from a flight school is 100% depreciation. If you buy a solid aircraft and afford to assume some risk, once you get your license you can resell it if you need to.
~$2,500/month to own a helicopter without flying it at all....yikes. Not totally surprised by that number, but I can certainly see why there aren't more aircraft owners.
An acquaintance has a A109. He once told me that if he tells his Pilot to start the engine but then he delays his departure so Pilot shuts down the engine that it will have cost him $1500 because of fixed costs for maintenance based on starting the engine. Sobering thought if you're picking up the bill! He also has a PC-12 which is a bargain to run by comparison 😂
The moment anyone puts the word SAVING in the same sentence as HELICOPTER, there’s definitely a lack of research. Helicopters are expensive, actually they are extremely expensive. This doesn’t mean anything because it’s a relative concept, but if you’re looking to save maybe you should look elsewhere. Once a prospective owner asked me what the hourly fuel consumption was and how expensive jet fuel was. I had to reply that if you’re concerned about fuel cost and consumption, stay away from helicopters. Far away.
Helicopter toy, is for those with a 7 figure income and above. Gyrocopters are for the rest of us. Or if your going to get into a business, then you can generate a 7 figure income, to support your helicopter. That's the simple Law of Money. Money will dictate what you will do or not do. A simple business plan.... DNR/Forst Service. Your gereenteed 1 Lightning 2 Fire 3 Government Contract...... Good Luck.
It's like being at the Jaguar dealership, and when you ask, "What kind of mileage does this thing get?" The salesperson replies, "Sir, if you're worried about gas mileage, you can't afford a Jaguar."
The ONLY reason I gave a thumbs down is 8:39 is anything but BRIEF! Otherwise the info is interesting and I’m sure relevant! Brief to me is 2 minutes or less!
![[Gegagedigedagedago] NEW Help Gegagedigedagedago Nugget escape from Nikocado Avocado Challenge](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hJWnwRC2Fz8/mqdefault.jpg)
Can't wait for Amazon Prime to make a AmazonBasic version of a helicopter.
Thanks for commenting.
The old 3-F’s motto.
If it flies, floats or f*cks: rent it!
Thanks for commenting.
Great question. I too have this conversation often. I make all the same points Kenny is, in addition, on the insurance questions, I relate their question to the type of aircraft and the level of experience.
Just like with a car, the type of car and age (experience of the driver) dictates the insurance cost!
Top end sports car, young driver under 25? Big insurance costs.
Same thing for a helicopter. a) Type of helo. Determines the basic cost of the "aircraft", then there is the cost to insure you!. As a new pilot, w/less than 250 hours, you're going to get racked on the insurance cost just like a young driver. You're just inexperienced. In this industry, it's all about hours. More time you've flown, the cheaper your rates will be.
So thinking your training will be cheaper if you own the helo, not so much. People only look at those costs the flight schools charge, but forget about the costs behind the scenes of Maintenance, parts and inspections you don't see and are not responsible for as a renter.
Hope this helps to add a little bit extra to Kennys talk. If your adamant about buying a chopper, Great! Do your homework and get lots of input from as many users as you can. It's a big responsibility.
Ron Baier
Chief Pilot
Canyon State Aero
Insurance dictates everything! Thank you Ron!
Insurance yearly costs drops as your experience (hours) goes up.
Bet rate for
Beach Geek yeah still expensive regardless. In this case we are talking new pilot. Takes a long time for a private owner to get to 500 to 1000 hours. The expense is huge to get to where your insurance goes down!
Only discounts in Germany are if you have a CPL license, a bit more if you have IR Rating. (License costs on itself already about 250k here!)
I’d like to share my experience. First of all piston helicopters have little scope outside of flight school use. I once ferried an R22 for almost 800nm. Needless to say I would have rather walked the distance. Just to double check a few weeks ago I flew about 4 hours in another R22 and when I got home I was still sore. This to mean that the limitations that a piston 2 seater imposed on the owner are severe. The 22 is an AMAZING instructional machine (even though it was not meant to be). What makes it a great teacher are the characteristics (limits) that do not make it good for much else. It’s light (wind is to be accounted for more than in heavier machines) the power in never in excess (limited) it only has minimum space for two and carries no luggage. If the pIlot and passenger are not featherweights, the loadable fuel is not enough to get much done. Can’t do any real commercial (money maker) work. These are the reasons that make me feel that the only “reasonable” use for a two seater piston is teaching. But again if money is NOT the issue then even a mosquito makes sense.
Thanks for sharing your experience DDT!
Well I flew an R22 from Phoenix to Longbeach with my instructor, both of us with a bag under our seats with enough stuff for a three day trip, so not sure about your "no luggage" remark. I do agree that spending an excessive amount of time in the little guy will make it hard to walk afterwards though, as I discovered myself flying a Mariner from Florida to Virginia once,...again with two people and baggage though :-)
As for its uses, it seems to be quite popular in Australia mustering cattle, plus the little guy does tons of photo flights for schools as well.
With regards to excess power, on my last dual flight I had no problem pulling into a hover at 1,500 feet agl with power to spare, so,...
Anyway, I found the R22 to be the perfect helicopter to rent for a one hour joyride up to the city, every once and a while, and would own one if I were rich,...or at least upper middle class. 😗
Joseph...Right on. My ‘experience’ (my FIRST C/country even) was ferrying an R22 from Prescott, Az TO Kalispell, Mt. TOOK 6 days because of a LOT of bad WX. The actual flying was great...really enjoyed it but I can’t say it was comfortable by any stretch. The only ‘plus’ behind the smaller helos in THESE situations is fuel consumption is such that you’re looking for terra firma and a fuel stop...often.
Great advice, as always, Kenny. In general, helicopters cost 4 to 5 times as much per hour as the cost a 6 place Cessna or Piper airplane. Buy a small airplane and get your hours up to at least 500 to 1,000 hours before switching to and especially buying a helicopter, but take occasional lessons in the helicopter from a flight school to get an "add on rating", private, commercial, ATP, etc. It is best to get your commercial and instrument in an airplane, then the add on for helicopter is much cheaper. Do a LOT of "shopping" before jumping into the "hot water". As you say Kenny, if it is cheap, there is some large expense that is close to due. There are BAD DEALERS, and bad owners as well, that will sell a pile of scrap metal for a premium price. As the phrase goes, BUYER BEWARE!!! Spend some money on research before you throw you money into a "black hole of debt". Fly safely and carefully. Happy New Year!!!
Thanks for sharing Roger.
Thank You- I will be renting for the foreseeable future..
Thanks for sharing!
Very good advice when deciding on renting vs buying in almost anything. I am just here for fun but what you said is very practical 🤠
Thanks👍
If you look at the rental agreement, there is a lot of things you can't do, Also the price to replace the helicopter is more than you would pay if you bought it.
So my question is if you plan on putting one to work is it worth it then? Thanks Kenny
Plan on putting it to work? Well that sounds good in theory! That's what I was gonna do with the one that bankrupted me. If you counting on someone else providing income for your helicopter, you still need disposable income for all the what if's...
Couldn't agree more, Kenny. I'll never understand why some folks think the numbers won't apply to their dream. Call it wishful thinking, I suppose. Then they buy an aircraft that would be great for someone that actually could afford it. That airplane suffers by being parked in a hangar (for a while) then tied down outside when they realize they can't even afford the hangar on top of monthly premium and insurance. That aircraft which was perfectly usable has now become a money pit simply because it was taken and put in a proverbial cage like a bird. The problem persists when that owner decides to rid themselves of the headache and the next dreamer comes along and thinks they can afford it, get a "cheap" annual and fly for pennies. The cycle repeats. As an A&P IA, I have no problem nor do I feel it's my responsibility to help someone afford their aircraft. Not everyone has to go for an airplane ride. If you don't like the bill, take on a partner, go back to renting, or find another hobby.
Thanks for sharing!
05:30 💯 correct. A well maintained fully equipped Schweitzer 300C is 120-130k, not 65k!
Thanks for the feedback!
Perfect video detailed and to the point. Thank you
Thank you!
I came up with an annual figure of around $26,500 for my Enstrom 280FX. these are fixed cost's that I have little control over. Insurance, hangar rent, Annual fee etc etc.I have in this cost some minimal fee for time removed as flying hours (hobbs) increases. You must include this. This does not include any Loan payment if you should have one.
I went the route of purchasing with a partner when I got my License originally. we both got our time in it and license before the franklin engine came apart in flight. Fortunately the insurance paid us back for the full purchase price when the helicopter was demolished in "transit" to the holding area after the Auto Rotation was complete. Always hire someone who knows how to move these things properly!
Thanks for sharing your first hand experience David!
@@davidmccurdy5969 how many feet above ground level was it when the engine failed? I would really appreciate knowing what took place throughout that mishap and what could've been the cause. Hope no one was hurt.
@@anthonyo.thector32, in my case the engine had become weak and developed a fracture in the case which eventually separated. Unfortunately in flight at about 700 feet agl. I try to leave myself some height. Altitude is your friend in most cases.
@@davidmccurdy5969 👍
What you do is... buy a helicopter, & lease it to a flight school.
Or win the lottery.
haha yeah
@whip
Staying out of the sky will be a little difficult to do, since I'm in training to become a commercial helicopter pilot.
Bad idea. You are funding the capital investment for the flight school who only pays you for what they use. Huge win for them, not a win for you.
I have $2.7M budgeted for a 2018 - 2020 Bell 505 Jetranger. Is this a good call? I know I can get it cheaper than what I've got saved, but I know there will be significant costs for maintenance, a pilot to _spot_ me until I finish pilot school and a bunch of other costs I'm likely not privy to or haven't realized exist yet. I will have a regular flight between Northeast Ohio and Fort Wayne Indiana starting this summer. Am I an idiot, or what, I'd like your take sir.
Whatever you think it will cost, double that number!
Very good (and honest) answer.
Thank you for the feedback!
Hi, with all due respect. When I went to get my Heli Endorsement in Sydney Australia. I did my first 15 hours in a R-22, (horrible Helo but if you an fly a R-22, you can fly and hello, so it is important to at least get to learn to hover in a R2 before continuing your taring in say a Bell Jetranger as a Jetranger is to easy to fly and does not teach you how to really fly like a R-22!. I was convinced I really love flying Helos and then I bought a Bell 206 to complete my Helo Endorsement. That was 1987. I ended up owning my Bell-26 Jetranger VH-AND Bell #495, A Bell-206 A which I had completely rebuilt, including replacing the big A instrument panel with the current smaller B/C Model instrument consul, immediately after purchase to make it a Bell-206 B11 with a C-20B Turbine Engine. Being an A model it is 150 kgs lighter than a normal factory B Model and even with High Skids, at max continue Torque of 85% it flew at a TAS, True Air Speed of 112 knots, not bad for Jet ranger! Anyway, I ended up owing VH-AND for 21 years and flew over 3,500 hours in her. VH-AND never stopped or failed to start fly even once in the 21 years! Always buy a Bell, they don't stop !!!!! Now I eventually got an aviation Department for my business and we got a Maintaince Authority from CASA, the Australian version of the FAA and we had a full in house engineering team to maintain my growing collection of aircraft which then included a Citation Jet, L-39, Cessna A-37 and two Bell Cobra Attack Helos, yes two completely original BELL AH-1F/S Ex- USMC and a supersonic Mirage III I/O Ex-RAAF. Having your own engineering team give peace of mind over the quality of the maintaince of complex turbine Helos and Fast Jet aircraft and our business jet. So, short story is, if you have Jet Fuel in your veins, it is cheaper to buy a Helo to learn to fly in, plus then your family and friends can learn to fly, more economically because the cost is now spread over a number of pilots being trained , plus you can also charter out your Helo for income. Chartering out, if done professional can and will bring in sufficiently cash flow so my entire aviation operations became cash flow positive. Which at hat point, my own flying ended up costing Zero because of the charter income from Chartering our my aircraft to Charter Clients. In Australia we can take the public flying for adventure flight experiences in ex-military aircraft for payment and people will pay $3,000 for half an hour in the L-39 and the A-37! That is more per hour than the Citation Jet's charter cost per hour. To give some scale, you can charter a Gulfstream IV for $8,000.00 per hour. But, this strategy only works if you are will to really deep dive head first in to the aviation business and commit to the enormous up front cost of ramping up to set up a full in house engineering. So, yes, buying to learn to fly can work if one is fully committed to aviation as a sheriff life passion! Looking back, I wouldn't change thing, to me flying is the most amazing thing I have in my life. Aviation is even more important to me than my profession ! I wish everyone that is thin king abut learning n to fly, stop the nuking about it! Just go get a "trail flight" and believe me you will get completely hooked and you will never look back !!!!!!
Thanks for commenting!
@@shreddder999 Hi there, thank you for letting me know. You are correct it is. I will edit and make it readable.
I totally get what you're saying. However how do the flight schools make money with all those "hidden" fees?
Thanks for commenting.
Maybe they have mechanics that bring down the insurance cost.
Please make a video about the other side of the coin: monetization of ownership.. ther numbers behind that.
Thanks for the suggestion!
The biggest reason "aircraft/FAA-PMA certified" parts - even oil filters - cost 5 times more than their comparable automotive products is the product liability insurance premiums that factor into the cost of manufacturing them. In addition, the mounds of paperwork and engineering effort to get that FAA-PMA approval has to be amortized into each part produced and sold.
Thanks for commenting
NO Aircraft is Cheap to Owen, Because Aircraft are HIGH Dollar Items Like You Said Kenny!!!
Thanks Bennie!
Thanks that finish my dream... do you have to have insurance the Detroit police fly's there jet with no insurance ...
Thanks for commenting.
Kind of figured this would be the case with ownership. Guess I better look at moving to areas with helicopter rental/clubs available after I get the PPL out of the way. Not much of an aviation community where I'm currently living despite there being an air force base with flight activity all the time nearby.
Yes, ownership can be very expensive. Thanks for commenting.
A Bell Jetranger III or even a Bell L-4 Long Ranger will cost $150,000.00 per annum, to fly say 150 hours per annum, ($1,200.00 per hour plus fuel at 100 litres per hour for the B-206 and 150 litres an hour for a Bell L-4) not including what ever your cost of the capital required to purchase the Helo ! A used Bell 206 B III in good condition is about $600,000.00 and a good used Bell L-4, runs about $1m. Bell L-4 is a extremely capable Helo that is much sort after in the Charter market.
Thanks for commenting!
It’s way cheaper to rent than to own if you fly below:
That’s my opinion break even point:
Piston-heli: 200h/year
Turbine-heli: 400h/year
Only the Insurance : 10% of the value for piston, 2% for turbine helicopter (in Germany, as a IR CPL)
Same in the States?
Thanks for the feedback!
so whats best helicopter that looks good with highest resale value?
You will have to research.
hey Kenny, do you anyone that has built their own bird? Safari, RW Exec, etc... your thoughts on going that route? (strictly for fun, obviously) Many thanks !
Thanks for the question. I cover my thoughts on experimental in this video: th-cam.com/video/LMDL0nWPHA4/w-d-xo.html
Sorry Kinney I disagree you did not answer his question. If you have decided to buy do you buy before or after training
If you have to just throw out the window, buy one anytime you want!
Great advice!
Thanks for the feedback!
Very good advice again
Glad you think so!
whats best 2021 luxury helicopter with high resale value?
Not in that business.
Good information there Kenny
Thanks Larry
You are on the same level as me . . The mechanical engineer in me screems everytime I see the price for a helicopter component! Or plane component for that matter! Just because its labled for aviation, they get excited with the price tag! I just recently I saw a guy spend 300k for 'kit plane' and figures he was throwing out for the parts and labor were just comical! Ripped off, is an understatement.. More money than sense it seems . . .
Thanks for commenting.
I'm a proud armchair pilot with 500 hours of flight sim experience under my belt.
Thanks for commenting.
If the definition of a boat is a Hole in the water that money gets poured into, then the definition of a helicopter is a Hole in the sky that money gets sucked up into... Train in the other guy's helicopter bang his bird up, not yours LOL
Exactly!
Especially with Helos and turbine Helos: You get exactly what you pay for! There is no such thing as a "cheap helo!"
Thanks for commenting!
I think in the aircraft world it can be cheaper to buy, learn on your own and once certified, fly in your own aircraft. But, due to the cost differences, it isn't the same in the helicopter world.
Thanks for sharing.
My rule of thumb for people is if you fly less than 100 hours a year, you are better off renting.
Thanks for sharing Taz!
To add to this hourly usage estimating, at least in the airplane arena, between 100 - 200 hours a year usage you are better off joining a flying club then just renting from a FBO or school. Most flying clubs are a little bit cheaper because they don't have the overhead, the building, to add to their expenses. The last number used to be 200 hours. If you do fly over 200 hours a year, you may be better off owning. That will obvious depend on your experience as far as what the insurance will cost you. You really have to sit down and do the math to see whether it benefits you or not. Some people own and also lease their aircraft back to a FBO or school to try to recoup some of their expenses. Depending on the aircraft, it may break even or not.
Kenny is giving bad financial advice here. Renting from a flight school is 100% depreciation. If you buy a solid aircraft and afford to assume some risk, once you get your license you can resell it if you need to.
Actually, the advice given in the video is spot on.
~$2,500/month to own a helicopter without flying it at all....yikes. Not totally surprised by that number, but I can certainly see why there aren't more aircraft owners.
It can be very expensive.
Rule of thumb. You only buy if you fly more than 100 hours per annum !n otherwise Rent or Charter !
Thanks for commenting!
An acquaintance has a A109. He once told me that if he tells his Pilot to start the engine but then he delays his departure so Pilot shuts down the engine that it will have cost him $1500 because of fixed costs for maintenance based on starting the engine. Sobering thought if you're picking up the bill!
He also has a PC-12 which is a bargain to run by comparison 😂
Thanks for the feedback
The moment anyone puts the word SAVING in the same sentence as HELICOPTER, there’s definitely a lack of research. Helicopters are expensive, actually they are extremely expensive. This doesn’t mean anything because it’s a relative concept, but if you’re looking to save maybe you should look elsewhere. Once a prospective owner asked me what the hourly fuel consumption was and how expensive jet fuel was. I had to reply that if you’re concerned about fuel cost and consumption, stay away from helicopters. Far away.
Exactly DDT!
Theres an old adage...
If it Flys, Floats or Fucks
RENT IT !!!
Yep!
Helicopter toy, is for those with a 7 figure income and above. Gyrocopters are for the rest of us. Or if your going to get into a business, then you can generate a 7 figure income, to support your helicopter. That's the simple Law of Money. Money will dictate what you will do or not do. A simple business plan.... DNR/Forst Service. Your gereenteed 1 Lightning 2 Fire 3 Government Contract......
Good Luck.
Thanks for commenting
Helicopters isn't for the cheapy....
yep
It's like being at the Jaguar dealership, and when you ask, "What kind of mileage does this thing get?"
The salesperson replies, "Sir, if you're worried about gas mileage, you can't afford a Jaguar."
Exactly!
You wanna make $100,000 a year with your aircraft? Start with $200,000!!!
Double that, then maybe haha, but I still doubt it
@@HelicopterGround I was going to say start with $300,000 but I figured nobody else would pick that up except you LOL too lazy to edit I guess
The ONLY reason I gave a thumbs down is 8:39 is anything but BRIEF! Otherwise the info is interesting and
I’m sure relevant! Brief to me is 2 minutes or less!
Chet Meyerson you could have moved on at any time you chose