never, never, absolutely never change the position of the aluminum ring on the tonearm! This ring stops the vibration on the arm, the position is calibrated. And please, don’t touch the belt with you hands.
@@georgedoughly8682 What mega forces are you expecting on the tonearm to call plastic, that holds the tonearm at rest a critical unacceptable part? My entire Thorens TD 105 is made out of plastic except of the platters and it still pays well after more than 40 years of use.
The Thorens TD1601 offers features you will not find anywhere else like semi automatic operation without mechanical moving parts, fixed distance between center of the motor and platter while the platter and tonearm are suspended. Other features like proper external linear power supply with precise speed control, machined aluminum sub platter are are features of premium turntables costing more these days. Comparing prices to vintage machines back in the 70's or 80's is silly, I guess your salary / pension is also more than what you, your dad or grandpa earned back in those days.
I don't know about you guys, but, If I paid $4000 for a turntable, I would want the pleasure of unboxing it and being the first one to go through all the unpacking etc. The way you are leafing through the manual and handling everything seems a little bizarre. I would certainly not want you working on anything of mine that was brand new. Although, this customer hopefully is ok with this! I guess you will find out when he sees the video. Cheers
Exactly my thoughts. He handles someone's 4k turtable as it was some cheap crap. No respect for the item. Otherwise an informative video but disappointing presentation.
That‘s what I was thinking too. He kind of shoved the player around, missed the adjustment screw for 45 speed and let the cartridge holder drop on the player. Seriously? Why? That is an absolute no go! Doesn’t he know that? Bizarre!
It is! This moron thinks the speed is off....he's got a heavy cell phone placed on top of the delicately suspended platter...plus the phone app sucks and is not very accurate, sorry....much better methods to check the actual speed....
The strobe is more precise than the app. LED lighting oscillates at mains frequency. The connector is a jenson (Jensen?) aircraft connector. Thorens is pronounced “torrens” Great set up procedure nice turntable.
No way I would want to move that table with the outer platter in situ. Always told to remove these heavy items before moving the table so as not to risk putting unnecessary strain on the springs and risking unbalancing the set up.
You were told correctly, see my comment about how this guy is so rough with such sensitive expensive finely tuned equipment. What a bad advert for this hifi shop, I'd fire him.
Subject turntable is a modern remake of a classic design from the company and can trace its design principles back into the 1960’s long before Linn started marketing the LP12. I bought a Linn LP12 / Valhalla / Akita / around 1991, added the Trampoline and switched out the Linn K9 for a Goldring 1042 mm cartridge a few years later. Had it serviced every 5 years or so and Kept it running, latterly with an Audio-Technica AT33PGTii, until the Valhalla power supply died last year so you could say it served me well. Thought about repairing it and upgrading it but decided against it, primarily because when I took a close look at it internally? I was so very disappointed, particularly when I compared it with a Michelle Orbe table which I was interested in at the time. I think the Thorens from the 1960s and 70s are probably every bit as good as the Linn but just not marketed as well. Also they always had cheaper models in their range which tended to attract or detract from their more upmarket offerings. Linn on the other hand really only marketed the LP12. They did briefly offer a more affordable table but not for long. Returning to the Linn, my dealer suggested getting the broken power supply replaced with a Hercules 2 so the table worked and so we could properly compare the table against modern alternative and then decide if I wanted to keep it as it was, upgrade , or replace. By then the Michelle Orbe had seen significant price increases in price a cutting what has become a much longer post then I intended short, I traded in the Linn against a new Rega Planar 10 2020 model and could not be happier. With the same Audio Technica MC cartridge it’s considerably better then the linn ever was and cheaper then upgrading the Linn I had to what would today be seen as their mid market version of that table.
Visited a store yesterday where they had Thorens in stock and learned that they are no longer Swiss made but in Thaiwan and have lots of quality problems…
No, you do not "review this $4,200 Turntable [sic] to see ifs [sic] worth of the Thorens [sic] name and a viable successor to the TD160." Instead, you take us through half an hour of unboxing and set up with no review or comparison whatsoever. In other words, your video is little more than click bait.
what is really interesting is the 3 springs to suspend platter and arm assembly , copied from AR XA turntable . many others use it as well, but what is notable is the weight it like the AR is mounted lower, shifting it from static balance to neutral balance
Little bit rough handling in every phase of assembly and turntable full of fingerprints. You can actually make permanent surface damage to the aluminium and brass, if you handle those materials without gloves, if surface has not been painted or has got clear coat. For me this is instruction how not to handle turntable or other HiFi-Equipments. I think rpm's were adjusted more accurately after factory than with mobile app needle up position. You don't know what is accuracy of phone hardware and app. I use LED-strobo to adjust speed.
Moving the turntable about like that could damage the main bearing housing. This is a customer's turntable... did the customer expect to receive a damaged turntable?
Thorens...the Rolex of turntables. I got my absolutely mint TD 165 for $150 about five years ago. I tweaked it via Vinyl Nirvanas help and parts for about $100. Thorens rule.
Hi Fernando: I own 2 turntables : thorens td550 &sme309& hana ml cartridge, how will be worth trying this td1600 ? The other turntable is a Linn LP12&keel subchasis& radikal power supply& linn crystal, linn urika phono, ittok lvII, karousel bearing center. The thorens uses a naim superline phono stage & hicap dr power supply. The main advantage of the thorens will be this naim phono stage. I’m thinking of selling one, love the simplicity of linn units over thorens &naim
I'm 40 years old and I could never imagine being able to afford a FOUR THOUSAND DOLLAR turntable. Not in this world the way people are getting paid for thier work. How long before such quality beomes possible for the "normal" person?
Phone speed app is fair at best. Plus checking speed without a stylus in groove neglects to account for stylus drag. KAB has an excellent speed check tool. Plastic for the arm rest is not a bad materials choice. BTW- you never answered the question- valid successor to the TD160?
Looks nice enough, though I couldn't pay that much for a turntable with such a compromised tonearm. Everything looks a compromise to me. The ring on the tonearm is basically a compromise, a good tonearm wouldnt need that. The speed adjustment screws on the rear of the turntable, bad design philosophy, a physical nob that one just reaches around and adjuts physicall would be way more practical, having to reach around with a screwdriver is bizarre. The greatest tonearm in the world, the Rega arms have no 'rings' on them, no slotted headed screws to remove the headshell. Great looking turntable, but heavily flawed at any price.
Hasn't changed much from my TD 126 MKIII. My first one had the Thorens arm with the return n such but platter slipped down and sat on plinth overheating motor. Wifes friend had another with saec tonearm, full manual, got for 250 bucks.Also between the two tables got a Grace F9, stylus like new, a Denon DL301, stylus like new and a Shinon Red Boron, stylus like new. and a nitty gritty record vac. First 126 also 250 bucks. Does Thorens have something like the one your showing that I could transfer my arm to?
Why are you using a phone app for? you've got a strobe disc it's more accurate than the phone app, and I would say it doesn't need adjusting it should always be a fraction fast and you look so clumsy when you're touching things why
SMPS don't need the 110/240 switch as they generally will accept anything between 100 and 240. On traditional PSU the switch changed the wiring of the primary between two 110v in parallel and series.
Wait a minute. This turntable costs $4,200, and it uses an external power supply rated at 16 volts? Seriously? That's something I'd expect to find on garbage turntables selling for $200 or less.
@@christopherward5065 I can tell you're young, and don't remember real turntables. Real turntables have a built-in power supply---external supplies are a sign of cheapening. And the motors of many belt driven turntables from back in the day ran on a full 120 volts, not 16.
The Thorens TD125 motor with its Wein bridge oscillator runs at less than 20 volts at all three speeds, I think one speed is at less than 5 volts. The shift from heavy duty, high torque motors driving idler wheels happened when belt drive was a good option. Idler drives were in the heyday of mono transcription and the vibration of the motor was not in a direction that transferred energy into sound in the cartridge. The advent of two channels at 90 degrees to each other and at 45 degrees to the playing surface of the record added the vertical component of the vibration into the signal. Lots of turntables suddenly rumbled, roared and droned. The highest quality ones remained because they minimised vibration and some solved the problem using mass and decoupling of the drive. Belt drive motors are small and low mass. Their vibrations are decoupled from the playing surface by complaint mounting, the belt is elastic and absorbs the motor’s torque cycling. The tonearm and platter will often be decoupled on a sprung and dampened subchassis. We can reduce the voltage to provide enough torque to keep topping up the energy of the rotating platter to match the friction in the bearing. A lot of these motors run at lower than 90V and the motor controllers are amplifiers feeding a clean sine-wave to the motor. The voltage is optimised to give lowest vibration. This involves having an accurate phase relationship between the two sine waves and a voltage for each vibration frequency. The power supply is decoupled from the mains frequency and any noise it might be carrying. Direct drive motors also wouldn’t run at mains voltage for the same reasons. The radiated magnetic field from a large motor at mains frequency is another source of signal pollution.
@@christopherward5065 I think you're confusing things here a bit. Nobody was talking about mass-produced record changers with idler wheels, I'm talking about belt-driven turntables from reputable Japanese manufacturers during the 70's/80's. You are correct that direct drive runs on a much smaller DC component, but belt drive tt's back in the day used high torque, low noise AC motors that ran at line voltage---no silly external power supply needed
Thorens is now a marketing company...the neo Td 124 price is 10000 $ and the neo TD160 to date over 4000 $.... But in any case the listening com parison between the vintage product vs the current new production is never proposed... You can get the original td 160 under 500 $ ad well as a td 124 for 2000 $ in average.. The rpm test using the phone is not reliable,......classic stroboscope disc is better... Very poor issue of these product designed in Taiwan... The vinyl renewal is developped in parallel with number of turntables offers so called "audiophile" withch are really overpriced... I agree that people who are discovering the vinyl have no the original culture to make a choice in assessing " features and benefits" except merchandising argument.. Sorry for such a negative opinion but I love the turntable since the eighties and I am not satisfy by the current pseudo high end machine like this presentation...
Wow...a silly "app" for a turntable? Really? Man, we're getting waaay too geeky & over-engineered to be affixing a stupid app to/for a turntable. Oh, and once "plastic" has entered the turntable picture, the price should follow suit. Plastic...should NEVER be part of a turntable; EVER! Not worth anything near 4k.
Those products are not designed in Taiwan. They are designed and engineered by Walter Fuchs and Helmut Thiele. Both are german designers and engineers working and living in Germany and they are head of the Thorens R&D. Their designs are not poor at all. Fuchs is perhaps previously famous for him working together with Karl-Heinz Fink in Fink Audio Team/Fink Consulting, and Helmut Thiele has designed many high profile products for German audio companies through the years. Thiele also has his own high-end tonearm and turntable, that sells under his own name.
@@raphaelmabo5014 Thorens should improve its communication to do the links with the fameous past... (I own a Td 124 II,Td 135 II) So many lovers of the brand share the same opinion regarding the Thorens activity, the enginering,the design location , there is a lot confusion in this field. What ever the level of quality of the current product are There is a transmission of the company value to be achieved within dedicated messages... Regards Raymond
Hand built and finished and calibrated. High precision. Low volume manufacturing. Exported from Lahr to the US with import duty, postage and tariffs. A luxury item that works properly straight out of the box.
@@christopherward5065 It's a record player. It does only one thing. Plays a late 19th century format. $4,200 and you still have to manually calibrate the speed out of the box. Oh, how wonderful. And it looks like someone's nightmare from 40 years ago. All that money supposedly into R&D and it still looks like a design from the 60s/70s.
@@SkyFiAudio I'm not trying to knock down your channel, it's interesting stuff. I'm subbed. Just because I won't buy it for myself doesn't mean I'm ignorant about these things. Good to have knowledge on all sorts of products. Nobody is questioning the build quality. Just the value of the functionality for the money spent. Most people that buy this stuff are people with money and wouldn't know the difference or what to do with the gear. Thanks for the indirect shot at me, though. Might want to do what many successful TH-camrs do...not get caught up in the comments.
@@summersky77 the intent was to make it look like the thorens of old, so what is the issue? They did a nice job....also, who said speed was off? That app is not accurate! Oh boy.....and you think $4200 is expensive? Wow, there are far more expensive turntables than this.
merci beaucoup de tout ces conseils , un plaisir de voir du matériel afin de régler une platine . j'aurai bien voulu voir le montage de la cellule sur le bras .étant intéresser par la td1601. Très surpris que d'origine l'usine ne met pas la bonne rpm ? CAR à ce prix ,s'il en plus il faut tout régler !!
Man people are dumb. This turntable if assembled in Germany would be almost 2 times as expensive. So you have it backwards. A Beautiful turntable she is.....worth every penny, though it can be had cheaper outside the US.....
At $4200 this has strong competition from the Linn LP12 Majik, which is $4995 including a cartridge. The Linn lacks the auto lift feature of the Thorens, but provides a better starting point that you can easily upgrade from.
BOTH, IMHO, are secondary to a Technics 1200G plus Nagaoka MP-200 cartridge at that price....or a well loved Technics SP-10 with the original black plinth and Audio Technica S-shaped tonearm with a Zu Audio Zu-103 ...or a third option is a VPI Classic with a Nagaoka MP-200 and upgraded speed controller.
@@MrNicks-gn8jc How do you like the MP-200? I have Stanton 681EEE / Vintage Shure / Sigent 5.0 and would like an idea on where this cart stands on sound. Have the SP-10 / a few Thorens as well.
@@68wrko For a medium mass tonearm, the clarity and warmth of MP-200 is UNMATCHED IMHO....for a tonearm with less than 10 grams of total moving mass, I would opt for a NOS Shure V15 V with a Jico SAS Neo stylus upgrade. For a tonearm with more than 20 grams of total moving mass, get either a Denon 103R or Koetsu Black cartridge with a step-up or a great phonostage like a Pass Labs Xono or restored Sonic Frontiers phono stage with Telefuken Ribbed Plate tubes
@@MrNicks-gn8jc Thanks for your quick reply. I am lucky in having a SME 3009 & 3012 on the SP-10II and the TD-124 and Grace 707 on the SP10 original. I should try those carts at some point, as I have thought about them and have seen user reviews. The Denon and Hana hade me thinking.....its too bad the brick and morter venues are no longer.........
@@68wrko I know....we have to rely on reviews and the mathematics....get the best match for the overall sound and effective mass of your tonearm and you should be ok overall
I would not let this guy's hands any where near my turntable! The way he used the screw driver on the headshell without supporting the tonearm with other hand, plus just letting the headshell and screw fall to table, ugh! You put stress on the tonearm bearings by doing it in this manner....then earlier in video, he's tossing the poor owner's packing materials onto table and floor. Just sloppy. And yes, handling platter with greasy hands/fingers will put nasty stains that will be difficult to remove from the platter surface. Lastly, maybe educate yourself on the darn turntable before doing the video....did not know what the ring on tone arm was for, nor did he realize it was a thorens tp92 tonearm! Aye yi yi...
Most turntables have external power supplies unless the motor runs at mains voltage and on mains frequency. The electromagnetic field is less likely to add to the signal from the cartridge as a hum.
@@christopherward5065 automatic turntables have never intrested me imho I have always preferred manual everyone has there own opinion but I will say I owned a td 160 with a low output m.c. cartridge for years and it was a great table. Have a great day.
Lol, thorens makes a very nice fully automatic in the td 240-2. Sounds fantastic. This table is not automatic, it's semi auto.....it has a auto lift at end of record.
@@tonydeniro284 A TD-160 will cost about £200. A Rega armboard would cost about £50. a brand new Origin live arm will add another £350 and a decent Audio Technica cartridge will cost another £200. So that brings us up to £800 and already it is going to sound at least as good as that new one. You could spend more on the arm and on the cartridge and push it up to £1200, still loads less, massive leap in performance. Maybe add some new springs and a fancy mat for another £100 or so, Still coming un way under the cost of that turntable. Can't see how you imagine it would cost more.
Handle with care for Peter's sake. At the end of this video once the stylus was on for your client I think you mentioned it's price and a little while later put your grubby hands on a soiled dust covered record and promptly played it. Amateur
Rough and crude ways... More than a turntable it seems like a review of a piece of wood or an expensive toy... Very bad impression... I understand that it has little value for you but not for those who look and perhaps had the intention of buying .!!!
I have both an LP12 and a TD160 Super..........( MISSION 774 ) The TD has a sandwich platter with the micro Seiko copper platter and outperformance the LP12... Both are sounding great and different......
Hey Tara... I also have a TD-160 with a SME 3009-II and an LP-12 with a Black Widow... Sorry audiophiles, these 'tables are amazingly close, there is a much bigger difference in the cartridges. tio Jimmy
This is an overly rated turntable. Some vintage Denon will outperform this Thorens. The plinth is poorly finished. The tonearm is so ugly. Sorry, I think it's only worth $1,500. My Denon DP-60L will run circles on that Thorens and it's got autobrake, too.
I don't think you have heard this Thorens nor seen it in flesh. It's a high quality plinth with quality bearings. Tonearm is designed by german high-end designer Helmut Thiele and it has been developed using laserbased vibrometer to find and cure resonances and vibrations. The tonearm made of rolled aluminium has internal damping to cure resonances, and also a resonance damper on the middle of the tonearm tube. The counterweight is underhung to reduce vibrations and raise stability and tracking, and it's double de-coupled too. The cartridge holder is full aluminium and very easy to use, it's a similar design that the german high-end brands Clearaudio and Acoustic Signature uses. A typical German idea that combines ease of use with low resonances.
@@DaveInBridport riiiiiiigghhhhttttt……. 🙄 Apples for apples, and make sure that you’re comparing the same thing. Price doesn’t account for everything and until now, Naim have not made a turntable, so how can you compare? They have only JUST released a limited edition, hyper expensive turntable that isn’t even comparable. And to my mind, Thorens haven’t ever made an amplifier……so go figure? What you say makes no sense. You sound like you’re throwing names around rather backing it up. And go check the history of Thorens and their products. They definitely definitely are an audiophile company, that’s for sure.
As Road & Track once said about optional accessories on BMW cars, "a triumph of pricing over costing." If this were made by Sony, it would cost well under $1K.
The Linn LP12 was a COPY OF THE THORENS not the other way around. Credit where credit is due not your misinformed poxy bias thanks. If I was buying anything from you and saw your total disdain and lack of respect for the packing and your attitude toward my equipment (Just toss it on the bench) I would have to kick your ass. Unsubscribe
I like your channel. And I need your advice. I bought from Denon one of the very first DP-60L tables they brought to the US. (I was in the audio biz when it came out - 79/80? - and got a salesman's deal for something like 350 bucks.) Loved it. I played it until '87, and it's been properly stored ever since. I'm bring it back into my system, but would like it looked over prior. I live in southwest Florida (Bonita Springs) but don't trust the local Denon repair shop. I've no trouble shipping it to someone reputable. Can you recommend anyone? Thanks!
never, never, absolutely never change the position of the aluminum ring on the tonearm! This ring stops the vibration on the arm, the position is calibrated.
And please, don’t touch the belt with you hands.
for a guy doing it professionally this guy is such an amateur
Us idiots
Says not to touch it right in the manual....maybe should have educated himself on this before making video, duh....
If plastic is expected at $5k I’m out of the hobby.
Yeah, that’s not a good sign at all.
@@georgedoughly8682 What mega forces are you expecting on the tonearm to call plastic, that holds the tonearm at rest a critical unacceptable part? My entire Thorens TD 105 is made out of plastic except of the platters and it still pays well after more than 40 years of use.
The Thorens TD1601 offers features you will not find anywhere else like semi automatic operation without mechanical moving parts, fixed distance between center of the motor and platter while the platter and tonearm are suspended. Other features like proper external linear power supply with precise speed control, machined aluminum sub platter are are features of premium turntables costing more these days. Comparing prices to vintage machines back in the 70's or 80's is silly, I guess your salary / pension is also more than what you, your dad or grandpa earned back in those days.
@@rudolfappel7236 Even adjusted for inflation, I don’t think one should “expect” plastic parts in a $5k machine.
@@edd2771 I’m with you. The plastic cover should be made of crystal and the hinges of pure gold.
Very nice tools and review but . . . very rough handling. I would have at least worn gloves when handling that finish.
i was cringing ..
The pulley is positioned to keep the tone arm parallel to the force provided by the pulley.
Just like my belove TD 160, with new Jelco 550S tonearm and A Gold Note Donatello Red cartridge. The new one seems over price
This guy is so incredibly rough in handling this turntable. Almost unbearable to watch.
The thunderstorm makes it so peaceful and nice to watch
I don't know about you guys, but, If I paid $4000 for a turntable, I would want the pleasure of unboxing it and being the first one to go through all the unpacking etc. The way you are leafing through the manual and handling everything seems a little bizarre. I would certainly not want you working on anything of mine that was brand new. Although, this customer hopefully is ok with this! I guess you will find out when he sees the video. Cheers
Exactly my thoughts. He handles someone's 4k turtable as it was some cheap crap. No respect for the item. Otherwise an informative video but disappointing presentation.
@@tamasfrank1078 it's pulling on the arm vibration damper that gets me, I'd think any Thorens dealer would know what that is.....
That‘s what I was thinking too.
He kind of shoved the player around, missed the adjustment screw for 45 speed and let the cartridge holder drop on the player.
Seriously? Why? That is an absolute no go!
Doesn’t he know that?
Bizarre!
Nice but if I had that kind of money I would restore my TD-124 including a nice new tonearm.
Hey Fernando, I would really like to see a video of your home setup
Soon!
Pretty mutch would want this calibrated from factory at that price!
It is! This moron thinks the speed is off....he's got a heavy cell phone placed on top of the delicately suspended platter...plus the phone app sucks and is not very accurate, sorry....much better methods to check the actual speed....
Nice. I like the way the platter sits in the sub platter.
The strobe is more precise than the app. LED lighting oscillates at mains frequency.
The connector is a jenson (Jensen?) aircraft connector.
Thorens is pronounced “torrens”
Great set up procedure nice turntable.
so, I don't mind if he pronounces it THHorens. He is American. Should he pronounce that Mercan? Cheers
It drives me made when they say Thor-ens instead of 'torrens'. It makes them sound stupid..So called experts.
1/4 price the volkswagen golf- you get 3kg aliuminium pancakes
You know where you can get a new Golf for $16,800?
I got a restored Thorens TD125 arriving tomorrow.
Enjoy!
No way I would want to move that table with the outer platter in situ. Always told to remove these heavy items before moving the table so as not to risk putting unnecessary strain on the springs and risking unbalancing the set up.
You were told correctly, see my comment about how this guy is so rough with such sensitive expensive finely tuned equipment. What a bad advert for this hifi shop, I'd fire him.
The LP12 is reminiscent of the Thorens design - please be mindful of which came first.
Acoustic Research came first I think.
'Murica, f-yeah @@scrunts666
Did we get an answer to the question posed in the title?
Nope!
Take some pics when you unpack a fine piece like Thorens
Wow!! Dragging the turntable while the platter spins. What shop is this anyway??
Subject turntable is a modern remake of a classic design from the company and can trace its design principles back into the 1960’s long before Linn started marketing the LP12.
I bought a Linn LP12 / Valhalla / Akita / around 1991, added the Trampoline and switched out the Linn K9 for a Goldring 1042 mm cartridge a few years later. Had it serviced every 5 years or so and Kept it running, latterly with an Audio-Technica AT33PGTii, until the Valhalla power supply died last year so you could say it served me well.
Thought about repairing it and upgrading it but decided against it, primarily because when I took a close look at it internally? I was so very disappointed, particularly when I compared it with a Michelle Orbe table which I was interested in at the time.
I think the Thorens from the 1960s and 70s are probably every bit as good as the Linn but just not marketed as well. Also they always had cheaper models in their range which tended to attract or detract from their more upmarket offerings. Linn on the other hand really only marketed the LP12. They did briefly offer a more affordable table but not for long.
Returning to the Linn, my dealer suggested getting the broken power supply replaced with a Hercules 2 so the table worked and so we could properly compare the table against modern alternative and then decide if I wanted to keep it as it was, upgrade , or replace.
By then the Michelle Orbe had seen significant price increases in price a cutting what has become a much longer post then I intended short, I traded in the Linn against a new Rega Planar 10 2020 model and could not be happier. With the same Audio Technica MC cartridge it’s considerably better then the linn ever was and cheaper then upgrading the Linn I had to what would today be seen as their mid market version of that table.
Don't write a book next time.
Visited a store yesterday where they had Thorens in stock and learned that they are no longer Swiss made but in Thaiwan and have lots of quality problems…
How does the 1601 compare to the TD125 MKII? I’m torn whether I should purchase the new 1601 or a refurbished 125MKII
Great video. Thank you for sharing!
Thank you for watching!
No, you do not "review this $4,200 Turntable [sic] to see ifs [sic] worth of the Thorens [sic] name and a viable successor to the TD160." Instead, you take us through half an hour of unboxing and set up with no review or comparison whatsoever. In other words, your video is little more than click bait.
Thanks for the tip on the RPM Pro app. I wasn't aware of this.
It's a good and easy to use speed tester for most folks. Glad to share.
what is really interesting is the 3 springs to suspend platter and arm assembly , copied from AR XA turntable . many others use it as well, but what is notable is the weight it like the AR is mounted lower, shifting it from static balance to neutral balance
Interesting, can you explain this further? thx
Why did you buy it for 4200$ ? I bought mine for 3090CHF, (3800$) here in switzerland. is this price difference for taxes ? Have a good day :)
Let's get to the important question: what's the watch? (nice strap)
Hey good eye Ron. Its a Bell & Ross on a green Nato velcro strap. Cheers
Little bit rough handling in every phase of assembly and turntable full of fingerprints. You can actually make permanent surface damage to the aluminium and brass, if you handle those materials without gloves, if surface has not been painted or has got clear coat. For me this is instruction how not to handle turntable or other HiFi-Equipments. I think rpm's were adjusted more accurately after factory than with mobile app needle up position. You don't know what is accuracy of phone hardware and app. I use LED-strobo to adjust speed.
That is outrageous for a high
end turn table.
Moving the turntable about like that could damage the main bearing housing. This is a customer's turntable... did the customer expect to receive a damaged turntable?
I use an old very used Technics sl1210 bought for £300 and it serves me very well, why the need to spend crazy amounts of money.
Because it sounds better......
Thorens...the Rolex of turntables. I got my absolutely mint TD 165 for $150 about five years ago. I tweaked it via Vinyl Nirvanas help and parts for about $100. Thorens rule.
No quartz lock for that price?
Quartz lock is for direct drive. This has a quartz Crystal or two regulating the motor by helping generate the wave that drives it.
Suprised there's no transportation screws to hold the subchassis in place during shipping.
Check video at 6:13
@@JD-lk7im ,Oop's,my mistake.
You watched him removing them during the unboxing…
There are…
These things are done with gloves.
Touching too much, too many fingerprints.
And in any case, given the cost, the lid could be made of perspex ;-)
Hi Fernando: I own 2 turntables : thorens td550 &sme309& hana ml cartridge, how will be worth trying this td1600 ?
The other turntable is a Linn LP12&keel subchasis& radikal power supply& linn crystal, linn urika phono, ittok lvII, karousel bearing center.
The thorens uses a naim superline phono stage & hicap dr power supply. The main advantage of the thorens will be this naim phono stage. I’m thinking of selling one, love the simplicity of linn units over thorens &naim
I'm 40 years old and I could never imagine being able to afford a FOUR THOUSAND DOLLAR turntable. Not in this world the way people are getting paid for thier work. How long before such quality beomes possible for the "normal" person?
Save the best for last: the headshell falling on the armboard
take pics as you unpack, then reverse the process
Nice table
Can it be shipped with the cart mounted and aligned?
Thorens TD 1601, correct?
Phone speed app is fair at best. Plus checking speed without a stylus in groove neglects to account for stylus drag. KAB has an excellent speed check tool. Plastic for the arm rest is not a bad materials choice. BTW- you never answered the question- valid successor to the TD160?
People have gotten too cheesy and geeky with "apps" these days; Period! You don NOT need silly apps for most things.
The Cartridge on the end of the arm looks a mess. It’s a pretty deck with an ugly DIY looking ‘ headshell’ . I know it’s not a (headshell) shame..
It did not have a cartridge installed....it's a tp92 top of the line thorens made tonearm.
Looks nice enough, though I couldn't pay that much for a turntable with such a compromised tonearm. Everything looks a compromise to me. The ring on the tonearm is basically a compromise, a good tonearm wouldnt need that. The speed adjustment screws on the rear of the turntable, bad design philosophy, a physical nob that one just reaches around and adjuts physicall would be way more practical, having to reach around with a screwdriver is bizarre. The greatest tonearm in the world, the Rega arms have no 'rings' on them, no slotted headed screws to remove the headshell. Great looking turntable, but heavily flawed at any price.
Hasn't changed much from my TD 126 MKIII. My first one had the Thorens arm with the return n such but platter slipped down and sat on plinth overheating motor. Wifes friend had another with saec tonearm, full manual, got for 250 bucks.Also between the two tables got a Grace F9, stylus like new, a Denon DL301, stylus like new and a Shinon Red Boron, stylus like new. and a nitty gritty record vac. First 126 also 250 bucks. Does Thorens have something like the one your showing that I could transfer my arm to?
I was thinking the same thing. Have a TD126MKIII also. Platter looks very familiar as do the buttons on left side.
Qualidade que faz a diferença.
No azimuth adjustment possible? Thats unfortunate i think for that pricerange.
I think you can rotate the arm-tube for azimuth…
You rotate arm tube....
Why are you using a phone app for? you've got a strobe disc it's more accurate than the phone app, and I would say it doesn't need adjusting it should always be a fraction fast and you look so clumsy when you're touching things why
SMPS don't need the 110/240 switch as they generally will accept anything between 100 and 240. On traditional PSU the switch changed the wiring of the primary between two 110v in parallel and series.
Wait a minute. This turntable costs $4,200, and it uses an external power supply rated at 16 volts? Seriously? That's something I'd expect to find on garbage turntables selling for $200 or less.
What are you talking about? What does that have to do with anything?
@@christopherward5065 I can tell you're young, and don't remember real turntables. Real turntables have a built-in power supply---external supplies are a sign of cheapening. And the motors of many belt driven turntables from back in the day ran on a full 120 volts, not 16.
The Thorens TD125 motor with its Wein bridge oscillator runs at less than 20 volts at all three speeds, I think one speed is at less than 5 volts.
The shift from heavy duty, high torque motors driving idler wheels happened when belt drive was a good option. Idler drives were in the heyday of mono transcription and the vibration of the motor was not in a direction that transferred energy into sound in the cartridge. The advent of two channels at 90 degrees to each other and at 45 degrees to the playing surface of the record added the vertical component of the vibration into the signal. Lots of turntables suddenly rumbled, roared and droned. The highest quality ones remained because they minimised vibration and some solved the problem using mass and decoupling of the drive.
Belt drive motors are small and low mass. Their vibrations are decoupled from the playing surface by complaint mounting, the belt is elastic and absorbs the motor’s torque cycling. The tonearm and platter will often be decoupled on a sprung and dampened subchassis. We can reduce the voltage to provide enough torque to keep topping up the energy of the rotating platter to match the friction in the bearing. A lot of these motors run at lower than 90V and the motor controllers are amplifiers feeding a clean sine-wave to the motor. The voltage is optimised to give lowest vibration. This involves having an accurate phase relationship between the two sine waves and a voltage for each vibration frequency. The power supply is decoupled from the mains frequency and any noise it might be carrying.
Direct drive motors also wouldn’t run at mains voltage for the same reasons.
The radiated magnetic field from a large motor at mains frequency is another source of signal pollution.
@@christopherward5065 I think you're confusing things here a bit. Nobody was talking about mass-produced record changers with idler wheels, I'm talking about belt-driven turntables from reputable Japanese manufacturers during the 70's/80's. You are correct that direct drive runs on a much smaller DC component, but belt drive tt's back in the day used high torque, low noise AC motors that ran at line voltage---no silly external power supply needed
Outboard power supplies are commonplace on high end turntables. This is no switch mode wall wart which is what you seem to be thinking of.
Thorens is now
a marketing company...the neo Td 124 price is 10000 $ and the neo TD160 to date over 4000 $....
But in any case the listening com parison between the vintage product vs the current new production is never proposed...
You can get the original td 160 under 500 $ ad well as a td 124 for 2000 $ in average..
The rpm test using the phone is not reliable,......classic stroboscope disc is better...
Very poor issue of these product designed in Taiwan...
The vinyl renewal is developped in parallel with number of turntables offers so called "audiophile" withch are really overpriced...
I agree that people who are discovering the vinyl have no the original culture to make a choice in assessing " features and benefits" except merchandising argument..
Sorry for such a negative opinion but I love the turntable since the eighties and I am not satisfy by the current pseudo high end machine like this presentation...
Wow...a silly "app" for a turntable? Really? Man, we're getting waaay too geeky & over-engineered to be affixing a stupid app to/for a turntable. Oh, and once "plastic" has entered the turntable picture, the price should follow suit. Plastic...should NEVER be part of a turntable; EVER! Not worth anything near 4k.
Those products are not designed in Taiwan. They are designed and engineered by Walter Fuchs and Helmut Thiele. Both are german designers and engineers working and living in Germany and they are head of the Thorens R&D. Their designs are not poor at all. Fuchs is perhaps previously famous for him working together with Karl-Heinz Fink in Fink Audio Team/Fink Consulting, and Helmut Thiele has designed many high profile products for German audio companies through the years. Thiele also has his own high-end tonearm and turntable, that sells under his own name.
@@raphaelmabo5014 Thorens should improve its communication to do the links with the fameous past...
(I own a Td 124 II,Td 135 II)
So many lovers of the brand share the same opinion regarding the Thorens activity, the enginering,the design location , there is a lot confusion in this field. What ever the level of quality of the current product are
There is a transmission of the company value to be achieved within dedicated messages...
Regards
Raymond
Anyone that pays $4,200 for a turntable needs their head examined. There isn't a shred of logic that can explain this.
Hand built and finished and calibrated. High precision. Low volume manufacturing. Exported from Lahr to the US with import duty, postage and tariffs. A luxury item that works properly straight out of the box.
@@christopherward5065 It's a record player. It does only one thing. Plays a late 19th century format.
$4,200 and you still have to manually calibrate the speed out of the box. Oh, how wonderful.
And it looks like someone's nightmare from 40 years ago. All that money supposedly into R&D and it still looks like a design from the 60s/70s.
Thanks Christopher! Our clients and viewers agree with you.
@@SkyFiAudio I'm not trying to knock down your channel, it's interesting stuff. I'm subbed. Just because I won't buy it for myself doesn't mean I'm ignorant about these things. Good to have knowledge on all sorts of products. Nobody is questioning the build quality. Just the value of the functionality for the money spent. Most people that buy this stuff are people with money and wouldn't know the difference or what to do with the gear. Thanks for the indirect shot at me, though. Might want to do what many successful TH-camrs do...not get caught up in the comments.
@@summersky77 the intent was to make it look like the thorens of old, so what is the issue? They did a nice job....also, who said speed was off? That app is not accurate! Oh boy.....and you think $4200 is expensive? Wow, there are far more expensive turntables than this.
ABBA! Nice :D
merci beaucoup de tout ces conseils , un plaisir de voir du matériel afin de régler une platine . j'aurai bien voulu voir le montage de la cellule sur le bras .étant intéresser par la td1601. Très surpris que d'origine l'usine ne met pas la bonne rpm ? CAR à ce prix ,s'il en plus il faut tout régler !!
The correct price should be NO MORE than $2000
You are absolutely right!
Too high; Maybe 1k; max.
Based on what information?
@@christopherward5065 Based on logic
Man people are dumb. This turntable if assembled in Germany would be almost 2 times as expensive. So you have it backwards. A Beautiful turntable she is.....worth every penny, though it can be had cheaper outside the US.....
At $4200 this has strong competition from the Linn LP12 Majik, which is $4995 including a cartridge. The Linn lacks the auto lift feature of the Thorens, but provides a better starting point that you can easily upgrade from.
BOTH, IMHO, are secondary to a Technics 1200G plus Nagaoka MP-200 cartridge at that price....or a well loved Technics SP-10 with the original black plinth and Audio Technica S-shaped tonearm with a Zu Audio Zu-103
...or a third option is a VPI Classic with a Nagaoka MP-200 and upgraded speed controller.
@@MrNicks-gn8jc How do you like the MP-200? I have Stanton 681EEE / Vintage Shure / Sigent 5.0 and would like an idea on where this cart stands on sound. Have the SP-10 / a few Thorens as well.
@@68wrko For a medium mass tonearm, the clarity and warmth of MP-200 is UNMATCHED IMHO....for a tonearm with less than 10 grams of total moving mass, I would opt for a NOS Shure V15 V with a Jico SAS Neo stylus upgrade.
For a tonearm with more than 20 grams of total moving mass, get either a Denon 103R or Koetsu Black cartridge with a step-up or a great phonostage like a Pass Labs Xono or restored Sonic Frontiers phono stage with Telefuken Ribbed Plate tubes
@@MrNicks-gn8jc Thanks for your quick reply. I am lucky in having a SME 3009 & 3012 on the SP-10II and the TD-124 and Grace 707 on the SP10 original. I should try those carts at some point, as I have thought about them and have seen user reviews. The Denon and Hana hade me thinking.....its too bad the brick and morter venues are no longer.........
@@68wrko I know....we have to rely on reviews and the mathematics....get the best match for the overall sound and effective mass of your tonearm and you should be ok overall
I would not let this guy's hands any where near my turntable! The way he used the screw driver on the headshell without supporting the tonearm with other hand, plus just letting the headshell and screw fall to table, ugh! You put stress on the tonearm bearings by doing it in this manner....then earlier in video, he's tossing the poor owner's packing materials onto table and floor. Just sloppy. And yes, handling platter with greasy hands/fingers will put nasty stains that will be difficult to remove from the platter surface. Lastly, maybe educate yourself on the darn turntable before doing the video....did not know what the ring on tone arm was for, nor did he realize it was a thorens tp92 tonearm! Aye yi yi...
That's way too much money for a Thorens. Actually, that's way too much money for just about any turntable!
I wonder what you'd think of the $75k+ turntable that we recently had for sale...
@@SkyFiAudio What would I think? Hard to say, without seeing it. I *guess* at 75k...absurdly too high!
@@SkyFiAudio For me "plastics" are the turn-off. Anything 1k(ish)& up; Absolutely NO plastic...anywhere.
@@cardtrix1970 the tonearm holder is plastic as it only holds a freaking light weight tonearm....what does it have to be made of? Titanium??
It kind of looks like my Thorens TD 125
External power supply is a deal breaker at that price point.
Most turntables have external power supplies unless the motor runs at mains voltage and on mains frequency. The electromagnetic field is less likely to add to the signal from the cartridge as a hum.
I would say no it is just overpriced. automatic turntables are cheap always.
Based on what?
@@christopherward5065 automatic turntables have never intrested me imho I have always preferred manual everyone has there own opinion but I will say I owned a td 160 with a low output m.c. cartridge for years and it was a great table. Have a great day.
Lol, thorens makes a very nice fully automatic in the td 240-2. Sounds fantastic. This table is not automatic, it's semi auto.....it has a auto lift at end of record.
@@tonydeniro284 personally I would never have a automatic turntable just wouldn't period.
I would go for the original and spend a load of money on it making it awesome and it would still cost loads less that this new one.
It will end up costing you more than the price of this table....
@@tonydeniro284 A TD-160 will cost about £200. A Rega armboard would cost about £50. a brand new Origin live arm will add another £350 and a decent Audio Technica cartridge will cost another £200. So that brings us up to £800 and already it is going to sound at least as good as that new one. You could spend more on the arm and on the cartridge and push it up to £1200, still loads less, massive leap in performance. Maybe add some new springs and a fancy mat for another £100 or so, Still coming un way under the cost of that turntable. Can't see how you imagine it would cost more.
Handle with care for Peter's sake. At the end of this video once the stylus was on for your client I think you mentioned it's price and a little while later put your grubby hands on a soiled dust covered record and promptly played it. Amateur
Multilanguage manual in one booklet ? Thorens shame on you.
Why?
All products are like this now, where have you been???
Made in Taiwan? Better than China I suppose.
my $1000. TD 240 is made in Germany. can't hear hum even with headphones turned up way past normal...... of course my 73 year old ears....
Rough and crude ways... More than a turntable it seems like a review of a piece of wood or an expensive toy... Very bad impression... I understand that it has little value for you but not for those who look and perhaps had the intention of buying .!!!
A Linn lp 12 is much better
I have both an LP12 and a TD160 Super..........( MISSION 774 ) The TD has a sandwich platter with the micro Seiko copper platter and outperformance the LP12...
Both are sounding great and different......
Hey Tara... I also have a TD-160 with a SME 3009-II and an LP-12 with a Black Widow... Sorry audiophiles, these 'tables are amazingly close, there is a much bigger difference in the cartridges. tio Jimmy
Comeon you guys, get someone e with the phone to record. It's embarrassing
Unbelievable. Dirty record, touching it with his fingers.
This is an overly rated turntable. Some vintage Denon will outperform this Thorens. The plinth is poorly finished. The tonearm is so ugly. Sorry, I think it's only worth $1,500. My Denon DP-60L will run circles on that Thorens and it's got autobrake, too.
I don't think you have heard this Thorens nor seen it in flesh. It's a high quality plinth with quality bearings. Tonearm is designed by german high-end designer Helmut Thiele and it has been developed using laserbased vibrometer to find and cure resonances and vibrations. The tonearm made of rolled aluminium has internal damping to cure resonances, and also a resonance damper on the middle of the tonearm tube. The counterweight is underhung to reduce vibrations and raise stability and tracking, and it's double de-coupled too. The cartridge holder is full aluminium and very easy to use, it's a similar design that the german high-end brands Clearaudio and Acoustic Signature uses. A typical German idea that combines ease of use with low resonances.
Lol, in your dreams
Thorens were always a notch above Denon etc but not one of the audiophile brands.
Eh?
@@johnnyboy114 not a top notch audio brand
@@DaveInBridport you clearly have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. Absolute twalddle
@@johnnyboy114 explain... Thorens are ok but their kit is outclassed by Krell and Naim.
@@DaveInBridport riiiiiiigghhhhttttt……. 🙄 Apples for apples, and make sure that you’re comparing the same thing. Price doesn’t account for everything and until now, Naim have not made a turntable, so how can you compare? They have only JUST released a limited edition, hyper expensive turntable that isn’t even comparable. And to my mind, Thorens haven’t ever made an amplifier……so go figure? What you say makes no sense. You sound like you’re throwing names around rather backing it up. And go check the history of Thorens and their products. They definitely definitely are an audiophile company, that’s for sure.
i still have two td - 320 mkii, like new, from 1988. more than 70000 hours, pl,,,,, i change only belts..
I have seen a few thorens tables but never been a fan they look so cheap and nasty and are over hyped if you ask me .
It's pronounced TORRENZ.
As Road & Track once said about optional accessories on BMW cars, "a triumph of pricing over costing." If this were made by Sony, it would cost well under $1K.
The Linn LP12 was a COPY OF THE THORENS not the other way around. Credit where credit is due not your misinformed poxy bias thanks. If I was buying anything from you and saw your total disdain and lack of respect for the packing and your attitude toward my equipment (Just toss it on the bench) I would have to kick your ass. Unsubscribe
Adjustments are bull
Bełt drives seem silly to me. You spend all that dough on it and it runs on a piece of rubber band? Just my opinion.
What are they supposed to use? A string of licorice?
I like your channel. And I need your advice. I bought from Denon one of the very first DP-60L tables they brought to the US. (I was in the audio biz when it came out - 79/80? - and got a salesman's deal for something like 350 bucks.) Loved it. I played it until '87, and it's been properly stored ever since.
I'm bring it back into my system, but would like it looked over prior. I live in southwest Florida (Bonita Springs) but don't trust the local Denon repair shop. I've no trouble shipping it to someone reputable. Can you recommend anyone?
Thanks!
Thats a tough one. You should certainly find someone local so the adjustments dont get undone in shipping.
@@SkyFiAudio Good point - thanks!
...🙄Thorens...👍