Wow, Phil (we corresponded once, hence the first name basis, lol) I'm so impressed by the improvements you've made. You are so clearly committed to continuous improvement. Still a fantasy for me unfortunately but wow. A man can dream...
Congrats on real meaningful modifications. Its great to see youre using Axial flux electric motors, thats a huge step forward, fantastic weight saver and massive power advantage. Also the carbon core, just makes sense when your mindset is focussed on building the yachts in the best possible way together with cost considerations. The rest of your modifications, to me, are relatively cosmetic but also nice to see. Well done! 🍻
Thank you. Walkable solar panels carry paltry 2 year warranties, lots of disclaimers, and with good reason. Glueing down a black solar panel onto a fiberglass surface exposed to high heat has proven to be a recipe for a lot of problems. But even if the soft panels did not get overheated, or burn fiberglass, or create electrical shorts, they simply perform very, very poorly compared to glass panels. We design our cats to have a wide walkway down the centerline of our coach top for easy access to the sail bag. There is no real need to walk on the outer edges of our coach tops. And of course we also install solar panels over the davits for those who want more solar. What is neat about the new 502 and 464 is that we designed a female cavity in the coach top to mount the glass panels flush with the coach top deck. But we also install them at the bottom with washer risers to be sure they get ventilation underneath them. Ventilation under solar panels is important for top performance based on our experience.
@@balancecatamarans Solbian, whose walkable panels are made in Italy and used on Vendee Globe, IMOCA, Jules Verne, etc. boats, have a 5 year warranty. Unlike some panels made in China, Solbian appears to have very strong quality control practices.
Beautiful thought-out design BUT one negative I see is all the sharp 90º cabinet top corners. Not as much as issue with cats but still a pleasing & more importantly, safer for crew.
We often get this comment from monohull sailors! But it is so easy for us to "round off corners" in the galley or such for those who worry they will bump into them. It is just that it is not a common occurrence on a catamaran, even in very rough seas.
Could you do a revamp of the 526 with these new production specs? It's been awhile since a video on the 526, would be great to see you go back to the start of this journey and go in detail. Very impressed with this new approach. I keep going back and forth about what boat to get and Balance keeps pulling me back in just when I think I've fallen for another brand.
Looks fabulous. The Versastern is a genius design. I still dislike allocating so much interior space to a master shower and locating the master cabin forward.
On a cat under 55 feet locating the masters forward, athwartships, allows you to create a much larger, liveable space. Just go inside a Balance 442 and compare the spaces to an HH 45 or Outremer of the same length! Instead of V-berths forward you have truly superb king beds. The other issue with aft berths is you have three big negatives: 1. The bedrooms are close to the engines, whether under the beds or aft of them. So noisier when trying to sleep 2. The aft bedrooms are closer to the autopilot so if you are sailing all night long it is this constant squeaking of the pilot going back and forth. A sort of sound torture 3. Aft berths are always much, much hotter than forward berths because due to deck curvature you get very little ventilation into them except through a deck hatch that is not catching nearly as much air as it would if more forward on deck. But it would be easy for us to do an aft cabin owner version with a forward shower on a 526. Piece of cake to do. The boat will just live way smaller and the aft shower and head are so nice and spacious. Not a decision I would make but easy to do really.
Fantastic design, can't wait to see the tour. Might want to add ventilation on the charging station desk. Is that basically a sail drive parallel hybrid motor design?
Really like the 502 design but would love to see a builder design a boat around a large 110 or 220V AC system including household appliances like fridge and freezer. We retrofitted our Switch 51 to house a 3/4 fridge and chest freezer and not only are they significantly more energy efficient than the marine 12V models, they literally cost a fraction of the price to replace when necessary. You can get a brand new chest freezer for $150!
Not exactly sure what you're asking. Most (moderately large cruising) boats have high voltage AC house circuits powered by an inverter from a battery bank. This becomes much more practical and durable with Lithium Iron Phosphate battery packs. Lots of marine refrigerator/freezers can run on AC or DC. One nice thing about DC is not needing to run the inverter, BUT modern inverters are very efficient. It would be nice if more marine accessories ran on 48 Volts DC to match common low voltage Lithium Iron Phosphate packs.
@@LoanwordEggcorn There is absolutely nothing wrong with running modern inverters 24/7 as they are highly efficient as you say. We run our 2ea 3000W units this way off of 1200AH lithium house bank. What I’m saying above, however, is to then ditch all marine appliances, most of which are highly overpriced and inefficient crap, in favor of simple household appliances running 110 or 220V (we are a 220V boat). Most older cats doing refits head in this direction now and never look back. Back when I had marine refrigeration units with keel coolers on my previous boat they the bane of my existence and I spent literally thousands keeping them going between parts and marine refrigeration labor (not always easy to find in remote areas). Now we use household appliances and when my chest freezer eventually dies years from now, I’ll spend $200 anywhere in the world and swap it for a new one!
@@svZia-Switch51 Well anything "marine" tends to be overpriced, BUT also designed for salty, humid air, at least in principle. Cooling to seawater as with a keel/hull plate heat exchanger will keep more heat out of the cabin than an air heat exchanger, unless the hot air is exhausted to the outside. Agree running an inverter should be no problem. That said a purely DC appliance saves say 5-10% of efficiency loss to convert battery DC to AC then usually back to DC again inside the appliance.
@@LoanwordEggcorn The issue with household appliances vs marine appliances is heat dissipation, even though the units themselves are far better insulated (SERE Ratings) and consume less power. Because boat manufacturers cram their units into tight cabinets, the marine units generally dissipate their heat via Danfoss compressor out the back or are aided by keel coolers under the boat (more holes in your boat). Switching to household appliances, which dissipate heat on all sides, generally requires reworking the cabinetry in some fashion to provide a more open space while still secure. Hence the point of my original comment about designing the boat cabinetry like this from the get-go.
Thanks for this nice video! I am a bit confused about how the jib is made larger? Is the crossbeam moved forward? I got the impression that it was also moved “down” but how is this done as would this not lower the trampolines (so you would need to step down vs their being level with deck)? Thanks.
In the new design, the longeron rides over the top of the forebeam and carries stays down to the hulls, you will see this sort of design on racing boats. This enable us to both lower the Pelican striker to carry a bit larger foot, but enables us to mount the forestry forward on the longeron and therefore expand size of the sail from the luff aft. To get an idea of what this sort of design looks like, you can see it employed on the recent Gunboats. We also have 2D drawings of this in our digital brochure, so just send us an email to patrick@balancecatamarans.com and he will send you the digital brochure.
Hey great looking boat. Hybrid engine tech is interesting to read about, but does it actually exist as data seems to be scarce ? Air cooled right ? How ? Have you guys got one on the water and tested it yet. Please can you share some of its capabilities / stats.
We will have our first one on the ater soon. We will share all the data as soon as it becomes available. At the Annapolis boat show we had Integrel Solutions join us at our stand with a functioning demo. Things are looking good. Have you watched this video yet: th-cam.com/video/e6ijkHjnN0o/w-d-xo.html
@@balancecatamarans It will need a LOT of testing. Are Balance going to offer warranty / repairs on this new motor when it is fitted - as its between the engine and the gearbox ?. Tricky for owners in transit if & when it goes wrong. More reliable to switch on an efficient DC / DC genset to Lithium than complicate things with this tech ? No one wants a main engine running.....
Looks really interesting. I do like how the company holds true to its values and beliefs. Such as your solution to forward opening hatches. My question is about the length of the boat. Is she a tiny bit shorter than the 526? Or is she essentially the replacement for the 526?
We decided to stop building it I am afraid. The demand for the new 580 has been so strong that it only made sense for us to focus on her. We have limited production space in Saint Francis and it is far more efficient for us to focus on the 526 and 580 at this time.
I have a hard time seeing the advantage of the HH stern doors. Why would you have to drop the entire transom to gain easy access to a dock? All we did was take the washboard concept and make it a folding, fast, up and down door. What does the big dropping transom do better, other than make it harder and more time consuming to open or close the cockpit? And what will happen when someone bangs the dock with the big aft hinges?
On the 502 there are deck lockers that can be lifted up at anchor and left up as they are self draining. They blast air into the forward cabin. Only way water could get in is if the rain was blowing madly sideways from fore to aft, or if someone left the hatch open while sailing. 99.9 percent of the time they can remain open at anchor, even in rain.
Nope. How the Versa Stern came about is that I was at a show in France and someone was commenting to me about how they liked the fact that the Outremer cockpit could be closed quickly off for kids or pets. So I went and looked at it. Then I saw the HH 45 which did that too, but felt that this was a very problematic design because you had to lower this entire stern to dock and it was on a big hinge. I am certain that one way the dock is hit too hard and the hinge will break. A lot of work to lift and drop this big stern, for no other reason than to hold back the sea underway, or keep in kids, people and crew protected from falling overboard. Our new design does all of this far better. The problem with washboards is you have to put them in and stow them and they are difficult to make watertight. So I got to thinking and felt that a super rapid-fire up and down door would be the best of all worlds. Easy to secure the cockpit. Easy to open up the steps for docking. Allows for working on engines when underway more easily.
like the hull construction but sadly same as all the newer boat they cheap out with ikea type veneers instead of something more modern , basically the days of wood boats are gone
This is a performance boat with foam core furniture for lighter weight and better performance. Lots of production boats use plywood furniture if you like a heavier, slower boat.
Thanks for explaining that to this comment. We can hardly be compared to IKEA because the furniture on our yachts is hand crafted with real wood veneers over foam panels. It does not get any higher quality.
Quick reminder to "innovative" catamaran builders that the swinging helms were already found on the Alibi 54 (project launched in 2007, boats in the water in 2011 at the latest), and that claiming it as your own innovation makes everything else you say suspect.
I've been saying this for years...Balance certainly did not invent that idea. Still nice boats, but not the "innovative" thinkers they always claim. This new stern idea also looks strikingly similar to the newer HH cats...
@@daneelolivaw4323 quick reminder that's it been the norm on monohulls for years and years before alibi came up with their 'innovative' design, so relax yourself Danielle
@@dirkhelmstaedt2072 HH, a leopard cat that went on ozempic, youll also be horrified to learn that their 44 sugerscoop doors is a rip off from Richard bransons old necker belle catamaran
Innovation is not always about invention, often it's about implementation. The innovation comes in constructing it to fit into a catamaran. (And being the first to do it)
@@laurapitre5797 They're a bit different. Each has pros and cons, like any design decision. Balance's is a bit more conservative and looks marginally safer.
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
This was the perfect update to the improvements. "When you want to be the best, you cannot rest"
Wow, Phil (we corresponded once, hence the first name basis, lol) I'm so impressed by the improvements you've made. You are so clearly committed to continuous improvement. Still a fantasy for me unfortunately but wow. A man can dream...
Congrats on real meaningful modifications.
Its great to see youre using Axial flux electric motors, thats a huge step forward, fantastic weight saver and massive power advantage.
Also the carbon core, just makes sense when your mindset is focussed on building the yachts in the best possible way together with cost considerations.
The rest of your modifications, to me, are relatively cosmetic but also nice to see.
Well done! 🍻
Looks fantastic, lots of innovation and clearly a customer and experience focussed builder. Look forward to visiting at a boat show soon.
Really nice presentation. Thanks Phil. The changes sound good. Still say non-walkable solar panels are less practical, even if they're more efficient.
Thank you.
Walkable solar panels carry paltry 2 year warranties, lots of disclaimers, and with good reason. Glueing down a black solar panel onto a fiberglass surface exposed to high heat has proven to be a recipe for a lot of problems. But even if the soft panels did not get overheated, or burn fiberglass, or create electrical shorts, they simply perform very, very poorly compared to glass panels. We design our cats to have a wide walkway down the centerline of our coach top for easy access to the sail bag. There is no real need to walk on the outer edges of our coach tops. And of course we also install solar panels over the davits for those who want more solar. What is neat about the new 502 and 464 is that we designed a female cavity in the coach top to mount the glass panels flush with the coach top deck. But we also install them at the bottom with washer risers to be sure they get ventilation underneath them. Ventilation under solar panels is important for top performance based on our experience.
@@balancecatamarans Solbian, whose walkable panels are made in Italy and used on Vendee Globe, IMOCA, Jules Verne, etc. boats, have a 5 year warranty. Unlike some panels made in China, Solbian appears to have very strong quality control practices.
Glass solar panels and diesel engine coupled hybrid drive are the right way to go! Clear sign of someone knows what they are doing
VERY NICE ! GREAT PRESENTATION !
Sounds really awesome!
I will be an owner one day :). Been following you for years
Beautiful thought-out design BUT one negative I see is all the sharp 90º cabinet top corners. Not as much as issue with cats but still a pleasing & more importantly, safer for crew.
We often get this comment from monohull sailors! But it is so easy for us to "round off corners" in the galley or such for those who worry they will bump into them. It is just that it is not a common occurrence on a catamaran, even in
very rough seas.
Could you do a revamp of the 526 with these new production specs? It's been awhile since a video on the 526, would be great to see you go back to the start of this journey and go in detail. Very impressed with this new approach. I keep going back and forth about what boat to get and Balance keeps pulling me back in just when I think I've fallen for another brand.
You wouldn't go wrong. As a delivery captain, they are great boats to sail and they are built to an exceptionally high standard.
Thank you. Most of the advancements and changes we are making to our new models will be incorporated on the 526 Mark II
Groovy video
Looks fabulous. The Versastern is a genius design. I still dislike allocating so much interior space to a master shower and locating the master cabin forward.
On a cat under 55 feet locating the masters forward, athwartships, allows you to create a much larger, liveable space. Just go inside a Balance 442 and compare the spaces to an HH 45 or Outremer of the same length! Instead of V-berths forward you have truly superb king beds. The other issue with aft berths is you have three big negatives:
1. The bedrooms are close to the engines, whether under the beds or aft of them. So noisier when trying to sleep
2. The aft bedrooms are closer to the autopilot so if you are sailing all night long it is this constant squeaking of the pilot going back and forth. A sort of sound torture
3. Aft berths are always much, much hotter than forward berths because due to deck curvature you get very little ventilation into them except through a deck hatch that is not catching nearly as much air as it would if more
forward on deck.
But it would be easy for us to do an aft cabin owner version with a forward shower on a 526. Piece of cake to do. The boat will just live way smaller and the aft shower and head are so nice and spacious. Not a decision I would make but easy to do really.
Fantastic design, can't wait to see the tour. Might want to add ventilation on the charging station desk.
Is that basically a sail drive parallel hybrid motor design?
Really like the 502 design but would love to see a builder design a boat around a large 110 or 220V AC system including household appliances like fridge and freezer. We retrofitted our Switch 51 to house a 3/4 fridge and chest freezer and not only are they significantly more energy efficient than the marine 12V models, they literally cost a fraction of the price to replace when necessary. You can get a brand new chest freezer for $150!
Not exactly sure what you're asking. Most (moderately large cruising) boats have high voltage AC house circuits powered by an inverter from a battery bank. This becomes much more practical and durable with Lithium Iron Phosphate battery packs.
Lots of marine refrigerator/freezers can run on AC or DC. One nice thing about DC is not needing to run the inverter, BUT modern inverters are very efficient.
It would be nice if more marine accessories ran on 48 Volts DC to match common low voltage Lithium Iron Phosphate packs.
@@LoanwordEggcorn There is absolutely nothing wrong with running modern inverters 24/7 as they are highly efficient as you say. We run our 2ea 3000W units this way off of 1200AH lithium house bank. What I’m saying above, however, is to then ditch all marine appliances, most of which are highly overpriced and inefficient crap, in favor of simple household appliances running 110 or 220V (we are a 220V boat). Most older cats doing refits head in this direction now and never look back. Back when I had marine refrigeration units with keel coolers on my previous boat they the bane of my existence and I spent literally thousands keeping them going between parts and marine refrigeration labor (not always easy to find in remote areas). Now we use household appliances and when my chest freezer eventually dies years from now, I’ll spend $200 anywhere in the world and swap it for a new one!
@@svZia-Switch51 Well anything "marine" tends to be overpriced, BUT also designed for salty, humid air, at least in principle.
Cooling to seawater as with a keel/hull plate heat exchanger will keep more heat out of the cabin than an air heat exchanger, unless the hot air is exhausted to the outside.
Agree running an inverter should be no problem. That said a purely DC appliance saves say 5-10% of efficiency loss to convert battery DC to AC then usually back to DC again inside the appliance.
@@LoanwordEggcorn The issue with household appliances vs marine appliances is heat dissipation, even though the units themselves are far better insulated (SERE Ratings) and consume less power. Because boat manufacturers cram their units into tight cabinets, the marine units generally dissipate their heat via Danfoss compressor out the back or are aided by keel coolers under the boat (more holes in your boat). Switching to household appliances, which dissipate heat on all sides, generally requires reworking the cabinetry in some fashion to provide a more open space while still secure. Hence the point of my original comment about designing the boat cabinetry like this from the get-go.
Very nice!! Well done! Looking forward to the series! Where are you making her out of? ~Happy Sailing
Both the 464 and 502 are being built in Cape Town, South Africa.
Thanks for this nice video! I am a bit confused about how the jib is made larger? Is the crossbeam moved forward? I got the impression that it was also moved “down” but how is this done as would this not lower the trampolines (so you would need to step down vs their being level with deck)? Thanks.
In the new design, the longeron rides over the top of the forebeam and carries stays down to the hulls, you will see this sort of design on racing boats. This enable us to both lower the Pelican striker to carry a bit larger foot, but enables us to mount the forestry forward on the longeron and therefore expand size of the sail from the luff aft. To get an idea of what this sort of design looks like, you can see it employed on the recent Gunboats. We also have 2D drawings of this in our digital brochure, so just send us an email to patrick@balancecatamarans.com and he will send you the digital brochure.
Hey great looking boat. Hybrid engine tech is interesting to read about, but does it actually exist as data seems to be scarce ? Air cooled right ? How ? Have you guys got one on the water and tested it yet. Please can you share some of its capabilities / stats.
We will have our first one on the ater soon. We will share all the data as soon as it becomes available. At the Annapolis boat show we had Integrel Solutions join us at our stand with a functioning demo. Things are looking good. Have you watched this video yet: th-cam.com/video/e6ijkHjnN0o/w-d-xo.html
@@balancecatamarans It will need a LOT of testing. Are Balance going to offer warranty / repairs on this new motor when it is fitted - as its between the engine and the gearbox ?. Tricky for owners in transit if & when it goes wrong. More reliable to switch on an efficient DC / DC genset to Lithium than complicate things with this tech ? No one wants a main engine running.....
Looks really interesting. I do like how the company holds true to its values and beliefs. Such as your solution to forward opening hatches. My question is about the length of the boat. Is she a tiny bit shorter than the 526? Or is she essentially the replacement for the 526?
502 will replace the current 482. The 526 will continue as is... For now. 😉
Please expand your innovation to include screens. When I am sailing in the keys, the mosquitos prevent us for opening hatches/windows.
@@entropicdoom8018 there are plenty of aftermarket options that cater to your needs
You get screens in our opening ports and windows!
whats happened to the 620?
We decided to stop building it I am afraid. The demand for the new 580 has been so strong that it only made sense for us to focus on her. We have limited production space in Saint Francis and it is far more efficient for us to focus on the 526 and 580 at this time.
The stern doors are better on the HH cats. The Wynns love there opening windows.
I have a hard time seeing the advantage of the HH stern doors. Why would you have to drop the entire transom to gain easy access to a dock? All we did was take the washboard concept and make it a
folding, fast, up and down door. What does the big dropping transom do better, other than make it harder and more time consuming to open or close the cockpit? And what will happen when someone bangs the dock with the big aft hinges?
how does water stay out of vents that flow air to down stairs?
On the 502 there are deck lockers that can be lifted up at anchor and left up as they are self draining. They blast air into the forward cabin. Only way water could get in is if the rain was blowing madly sideways from fore to aft, or if someone left the hatch open while sailing. 99.9 percent of the time they can remain open at anchor, even in rain.
@@balancecatamarans copy. Thanks!
Price ?
Please email patrick@balancecatamarans.com to get pricing and information on any of the models we craft.
652 ??? 😋 😉
Definitely HH inspired
This is a much smarter design than HH has.
@@laurapitre5797 like I said. They responded to HH.
@@SunsetWingman you must be a filthy casual if you think that HH came up with that 😂 😂 😂
@@pred7949 with what?
Nope. How the Versa Stern came about is that I was at a show in France and someone was commenting to me about how they liked the fact that the Outremer cockpit could be closed quickly off for kids or pets. So I went and looked at it. Then I saw the HH 45 which did that too, but felt that this was a very problematic design because you had to lower this entire stern to dock and it was on a big hinge. I am certain that one way the dock is hit too hard and the hinge
will break. A lot of work to lift and drop this big stern, for no other reason than to hold back the sea underway, or keep in kids, people and crew protected from falling overboard. Our new design does all of this far better. The problem with washboards is you have to put them in and stow them and they are difficult to make watertight. So I got to thinking and felt that a super rapid-fire up and down door would be the best of all worlds. Easy to secure the cockpit. Easy to open up the steps for docking. Allows for working on engines when underway more easily.
like the hull construction but sadly same as all the newer boat they cheap out with ikea type veneers instead of something more modern , basically the days of wood boats are gone
This is a performance boat with foam core furniture for lighter weight and better performance. Lots of production boats use plywood furniture if you like a heavier, slower boat.
Thanks for explaining that to this comment. We can hardly be compared to IKEA because the furniture on our yachts is hand crafted with real wood veneers over foam panels. It does not get any higher quality.
Quick reminder to "innovative" catamaran builders that the swinging helms were already found on the Alibi 54 (project launched in 2007, boats in the water in 2011 at the latest), and that claiming it as your own innovation makes everything else you say suspect.
I've been saying this for years...Balance certainly did not invent that idea. Still nice boats, but not the "innovative" thinkers they always claim. This new stern idea also looks strikingly similar to the newer HH cats...
@@dirkhelmstaedt2072look at an HH44 from the side and its clear to see Balance didn't destroy the look of the boat to add the stern wall like HH did.
@@daneelolivaw4323 quick reminder that's it been the norm on monohulls for years and years before alibi came up with their 'innovative' design, so relax yourself Danielle
@@dirkhelmstaedt2072 HH, a leopard cat that went on ozempic, youll also be horrified to learn that their 44 sugerscoop doors is a rip off from Richard bransons old necker belle catamaran
Innovation is not always about invention, often it's about implementation. The innovation comes in constructing it to fit into a catamaran. (And being the first to do it)
Phil, I love your boats, but surely versastern is not new and not innovative. HH44 might feel you copied some of their design innovation...
You need to do some research bro
Also, there is no inovation in the HH😂😂
The HH44 looks like it got rear ended by a truck. The Balance solution is much better.
Similar solution for blocking following seas, but not the same as HH's folding transom.
@@laurapitre5797 They're a bit different. Each has pros and cons, like any design decision. Balance's is a bit more conservative and looks marginally safer.