The F1 rule change that exposed McLaren's main weakness
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2024
- If you’ve been following the start of F1 2023 you’ll know that McLaren is underperforming and waiting for a big upgrade to help save its season.
But what’s interesting is that McLaren is in this position because a seemingly minor rule change for 2023 badly caught it out and exposed a big problem with its intended car design.
We have to go way back into 2022, as early as September, to pinpoint the moment McLaren realised it was in trouble, and why it had to make drastic changes that ultimately led to its REAL 2023 car not being ready for the start of the season.
00:00 McLaren in trouble
00:43 The discovery
03:18 No excuses
06:04 Short-term prospects
Subscribe: the-race.com/youtube_subscribe
Website: the-race.com/
Twitter: @wearetherace
Instagram: @wearetherace
Facebook: / wearetherace
Podcasts: the-race.com/podcasts
Thanks for watching - please like, share and comment, please also hit subscribe to show your support so we'll keep doing what we're doing.
www.the-race.com
/ wearetherace
#f1 #mclaren #f12023 #formula1 #formulaone #f1news #mclarenf1 #landonorris #oscarpiastri #therace - กีฬา
Now I understand why they tried so hard hiding that floor during launch!! They were saving themselves from embarrassment
McLaren already in the backfoot now.
😂
So basicly McLaren problem is :
GP2 Engine ✖
GP2 Chassis ✔
Gold. Alonso has entered the chat………..
Ssshhh how dare you!!!!
Angga ngapain kamu
@@poniatowski3547 FORMULA 2 CHASSIS. FORMULA 2 CHASSIS. ARGHHH!
@@poniatowski3547 Rina Tennoji also.
McLaren got lost a decade ago - people blame the Honda partnership, but they went off track a couple of years before. They were frequent winners in 2012, and then lost the plot in 2013 with not even a podium - despite keeping both Jenson Button and Merc engines. There's only been occasional flashes of brillance since.
Let's completely revamp the concept of the car that nearly won the previous championship one year before a major regulation change. Only Ron Dennis' camp can come up with one million iq ideas like that.
The 1,2 at monza was pretty cool
@@mrgalaxy396 The 2013 was less of an issue with Dennis and more of an issue with Whitmarsh. After that it is all Dennis fault, on top of hiring the wrong people to develop a winning car; he partnered with a washed Honda racing department too, those guys had an aversion to communicating openly; on IT we would be probably still stuck developing for Windows Millenium using those years philosophy; of course no one remembers that Honda sacked their people too after that fiasco.
Alonso was hired in 2015 to take them back to the championship. We know how that worked.... Something about GP2....
In 2013 , the car was shit and they sacked Sergio lol
I clicked on this video faster than the actual McLaren
That's not exactly a high bar though is it
💀
not that funny tbh
That's not even funny
its funny LOL
Problem list (excuses)of Mclaren - > Honda Engine - Renaut Engine - Mercedes Engine - Daniel Ricciado - 15mm rule change-Wind Tunnel- James key.
You have forgotten merc engine to begin with, aren't you, having an mb engine in 2014 and saying, aight that ain't it says it all actually.
For a team with such an F1 pedigree I'm kinda baffled they left the wind tunnel issue for so late.
@@dannyboy-vtc5741 the logic made some sense in that they needed a factory contract with an engine but best integration
But trying to force the size zero concept on Honda and Honda various issues as well did not end well.
However there was defo issues in the car as they underperformed for sure for the engine they had in 2014 even in comparison to Williams that year
@@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1 well it was an excuse, as they had an mb engine before and were on paar, better in fact, but didn't develop well enough, had some blunders too, like those spoon suspensions, was it 2013 or so, but they tried things and in general had much more experience and capability to develop compared to merc, and then they saw that mb engine is light years ahead of italians and french, it was an excuse for them, rb beat renault factory team for years.
What is even worse, yeah we are signing with honda, yeah a 10 year contract, we need time to develop, this is a long term, then - yeah it ain't it, we have no time for this, our car is superb, always was, they are just rubbish, who would want those ricers.
It's a blunder after blunder, it started in the v8 era and it's gotten only worse with time, it's a wider disease in english car industry also, everything erratic, nothing thought thru properly.
@@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1 also they could have had better integration with merc if they wanted to, they could've used mb gearbox, at least for the opening year, or their cooling package, but they wanted to outsmart them and failed there, could've said ok that engine is the best let's focus on our part bit more thoroughly, maybe bit more conservative but more calculated so we can improve on our strong sides, just we need to indentify them first.
Also that zero packaging is reminiscent of present zero sidepod, you see it's wrong but you double down on it.
I can't wait intil 2095 when the wind tunnel is complete and they can start fine tuning the aero package, lando may have moved on by then so Alonso should be good to return to McLaren
for as long as McLaren has been in F1,you'd think that a wind tunnel on site would have been a priority
McLaren maybe got that priority later. Remember. Better late than never.
They have had one previously. Where do you think the new one has been built? Whilst it's been under construction & calibration they've been unable to use it.
McLaren was going through a tough time and was facing bankruptcy untill zac brown came in and also the qatari owners
They have one and when it was built in the early 2000s it was fairly good but regulations changed and technology moved on. The Toyota one is better than theirs, so they used this one. The new one is built in the same place as the old one. The whole McLaren Technology Centre is built around the wind tunnel actually and the little lake they have is used to cool it.
@@jt5765 surely it would be smarter to build the new one in a place which allows to you use the old one in the meantime instead of outsourcing one across the world with even less control
They also hired a Ferrari aerodynamics engineer recently but can only start work after June as he just like Dan Fallows is on garden leave. Hope their fortune changes
So what stops them from having a phone call? You really think they follow those rules
The new Wind Tunnel will also come online for next season hopefully.
@@johnnychimpo7539 You think you can design an F1 car over the phone? wtf?
@@shoppingforleaves3162 Give me 5 minutes in paint.
@@johnnychimpo7539 they have to since FIA know when trams start development on parts and CFD. They can't start on any new parts that will be similar to ferrari IP until June. This is how aston got away with it last year.
These guys are the GOATs, who else could make 45 seconds of info into a 9 minute video
Yeah this channel is basically a whole lot of nothing and complete regurgitation material. I'm surprised they manage to keep their subs up at this point
This video is essentially a long-form McLaren press release. Gotta fill those TH-cam algorithm quotas for minutes.
As a lifelong fan I am gutted due by the speed of the 2023 car. But I am also very happy about the transparancy and honesty of the team about its problems. It is a huge contrast to the Dennis' years, where there was a lack of speed as well as a lack of honesty towards it fans. I cheered hard for the team in 2020, on their way to third in the constructors championship and am confident that the team will regain its momentum. Great reporting by the Race, once more.
We'll be back 💪🏽🧡🧡
Nah they trash. It's over 🤣 need to learn from Haas and stick with experienced drivers not kids
You are a person after my own heart. I've been through many years since Bruce M. Some good, some bad. Life is full of balance.
You should be more gutted by the unreliability which cannot be solved by aero developments. A fast car that breaks down before finishing is a pointless thing. Ask Ferrari.
@GloomGaiGar yes, gloom suits you. I'm going to go with the positive and hope.
Life is to short to live in the negative.
You can thank Mercedes for that 15mm floor hight increase rule. And even that hasn't helped them. LOL
True 😭💀
@@nguyenbaobui9927 Mercedes is running slower than even 2011 sadly.
It's not that only mercedes complained about that. They made headlines because they were the biggest team complaining, but they don't change rules because just 1 team complained
They change rules because one entitled cry baby whined.
And HAM has a compromising picture of Toto. He has to. I’ve never seen a German kowtow to this extent. Well other than merkel.
the race videos are my eating companion
Reading this comment while eating: I can relate :D
The Race and P1... great meal companions. This one came too early for me though.
@@soundscape26 way too early in fact.
@@keschbo i am afraid McLaren already in the back foot.
That 4 weeks off in April might make a big difference on the grid. Stops the teams that hit the ground running from racking up a ton of early points. Don’t think anyone’s catching Redbull, but McLaren might catch Williams during that gap
"McLaren might catch Williams during that gap"... Now there's a sentence I wasn't expecting to see so soon.
@@WS12658 And it's one that makes no sense considering McLaren are already faster than Williams.
had us in the first half
@@glenrobinson10 McLaren imo never been faster than Williams.
@@purwantiallan5089 Norris was keeping the pace of Hamilton in the latest stage of the race in Bahrain though
Hey, i just want to say, you guys are really great! You give incredible explanations, you make incredible analysis, you really tear it down to simple material and its just easy to understand and know what youre talking about! Keep doing what you guys are doing, we appreciate it so very much !
given the step forward that the rest of the midfield has done, McLaren are going to find themselves further and further behind. I don't see how upgrades will solve this situation as the others will be innovating at the same tempo. Fingers crossed they can turn this around as i would dearly love to see Norris win a race this season, but given the the current situation I can't see that happening.
Arrogance is McLaren's issue in all aspect of the company, they are a long faded race team and their road cars are superb designs with horrible build quality and customer service.
McLaren complaining about rent on their facility is hilarious considering they sold the property a few seasons back saying "were not a real estate company, we're a car company" and used it as a way to get some cash in the door. Now the fact that rent is biting into their F1 budget just shows how incredibly short-sighted McLaren management has been in the past few years. Zak Brown isn't gonna last the rest of the season if they can't get out of the bottom of the table.
Sooner or later people will come to realize it wasn't Daniel suddenly becoming washed, the real problem is the car and the team continuing to produce f1 cars that work on a very thin knife edge. But even when they have it on that knife edge, it's miles off to anything title worthy. Lando is a great young driver but in reality he has only ever driven a Mclaren, it's all he knows so naturally he has adapted to the cars major flaws.
Thats interesting.
lando outperformed daniel on many occasions . this shows daniel can't adopt to new environment
I don’t disagree with the premise that Daniel wasn’t the problem that him suddenly becoming washed wasn’t what happened. But he didn’t have a problem with the car the year before and him and Lando had the same car. They had to adapt the same amount. I think we saw Lando be more versatile and better able to make the best of a shit car than Daniel. I don’t think familiarity played a huge role considering how different the technical regulations were and that seeming to be what cause the shift from a car Daniel was comfortable with to one that he couldn’t manage.
Remember that the 15mm raise was not to "combat porpoising" but to level the field for Mercedes. Some teams like RB, Alpine and McLaren had it controlled before the rule.
Wait I thought it was too lock in RBs advantage so nobody is able to challenge them
@@benfulford3943 Mercedes found that the only way to reduce porpoising on their car was to raise it but at the cost of performance. Then the FIA mandated all cars to be raised, even though other teams had the problem under control at the normal lower height.
@@jarofflies1 except that isn't true. Mercedes were having issues with bouncing even when they raised the ride height. This is a lot of revisionism.
They introduced a bouncing limitation equation that was always going to benefit RB because they were experiencing some of the least amount of bouncing. Raising the ride height was only part of technical directive that was introduced. It also wasn't just Mercedes that were complaining about it but RB made it look like it was all them
@@benfulford3943 Your argument doesn't make any sense at all. Why would RB prefer to raise their car even though they could run it lower generating more downforce?
@@benfulford3943 your argument is RB had the problem under control and was superior to all the other cars so they had the FIA raise the height to make the other cars have an easier time with the porpoising to reduce their advantage because that gives them an advantage?😂
I propose calling it 'downfarce' in McLaren's case.
More like doomcase.
I've been a McLaren supporter since watching Bruce in those awesome Can-Am cars.
This F1 start is trying. Hard. But I am not tossing it now. I love our drivers and have hope for them. Let's see these upcoming upgrades.
Floor edges are the new barge boards, am surprised McLaren didn't have lots of different versions in CFD
McLaren's aero department needs overhaul . Hopefully they sign David Sanchez from Ferrari.
Hopefully McLaren improved a lot with Sanchez joining them. Amin.
This is the problem with F1. Aside from the teams in the very top like Red Bull, all the other teams are always preparing for the next season or the season after. How are we only 1 race into the season and we are talking about McLaren's car in 2025?
I know it kinda spoil’s because what’s the point in racing 🤔
cause if you don't have the proper equipment how are you gonna develop the car
Here so fast The Race hasn’t even upload a proper thumbnail
I hope it’s a BIG step
Yep. But i am afraid it is only one baby step.
That moment you realize people can build 1000 HP plus cars in their garage with tools from Harbor Freight… and McLaren builds duds with DeWalt.
McLaren gonna be always last despite with upgrades on the floor ceiling.
I thought the windtunnel was going to be online for the entirety of the 2024 car development. Guess I better reign in my expectations for next year too 😩
yea but alrready the 2024 car is in development so you can't use the wind tunnel now for its development...use you can use it latter but it won't be of any gains
It’s interesting how an excellent engine when put into a well designed car ( Aston Martin) can go so well and when put into a not so well designed car ( McLaren ) can look so poor. Clearly this is an aero formula again and gone are the days of best engine wins.
Mercedes and Toto hoping to slow down RB with rule changes and technical directives seem to slow down everyone else but RB. Hope they don't find a way to accidentally slow down AMR because that green car is a beauty
"We have to go way back.."
Gosh
"To September 2022!"
Oh
Thats an interesting tactic.
Thought the same. 😄
Can you imagine where they'd be if they'd kept Ron Dennis and Honda!
Exactly, aerodynamic issue can be resolved faster.... it's more concerning if your engine blows or something similar
I have a newbie doubt. Are they allowed to do updates on the car during the race calendar year if the constructor has already met the max budget cap set by fia?
Alpine is like, "Hey Oscar, are you regretting your decisios?"
They should have offered him a contract then.
I don't know what you did, but the F1 footage of cars looks smoother and better. Hats off to that
Otmar right now "hehehe" towards McLaren & Oscar.
thanks for this
8:15 "McLaren is chasing a moving target..." and you show a picture of Alonso. Well thats a fast moving target preeeeeeetty far ahead. :D
So in March 23 they admit they were inadequate for 22 & are for 23! Poor wind tunnel, designers & money going the wrong way but they don't blame that?
What a rabble!
Why DR went there beats me as does why LN signed for 5yrs. Why DR left I now understand. I don't think he was sacked at all I think he wanted out & what transpired was about saving face fo Mclaren.
As a McLaren fan, you give me hope my friend 😉 A great analysis yet again, thank you!
Unfortunately, this just sounds like regular mclaren. They’ve been saying “if this” and “if that” maybe if you stopped cutting corners and making excuses you’d actually be up there in the points or on the podium. I love mclaren and I hate to see them at the back
Some of the comments are hilarious.
As a McLaren fan this gives me some hope. Stellar seems to be on the ball ajd also seems to be working really hard.
Hmm, speaking as someone who has followed F1 for 40-odd years this seems to be part of a fundamental cultural issue at McLaren that has been there for a very long time. It regularly shows as:
-Bring out a disappointing car but develop it well over the season. On the rare occasions they have a good car there's a championship to fight for.
-But with today's budget restrictions (thankfully) there isn't the scope to develop your way out of trouble - a poor car = game over for the season.
Red Bull’s floor looks like there’s almost no parallel part to the ground in the middle. The other teams look to have almost a meter of floor in the middle that’s parallel to the ground. The RBR floor looks like a gentle slope that almost comes to a point at the center of aerodynamic pressure. I never noticed until the comparison at 1:30 in this video. I wonder if that’s one of the big things that’s making them look as daunting as Merc a few years ago. It also could be absolutely nothing since I have ZERO training in aerodynamics. But like Tyrion, I drink, and I know things.
03:42 wtf is this map
I tell you this. The new wind tunnel will solve nothing. I'm sick of hearing of the upcoming wind tunnel. It has been upcoming for 3 years now and no progress. Once they have it, it will still make no progress.
someone was saying this : "And you have to remember that we operate out of a windtunnel that is actually a listed building, it’s a relic of the Cold War. It’s not a state-of-the-art windtunnel that our competitors enjoy. It was built in the 1950s and it has its own limitations when it’s either too cold or too hot at getting the conditions and the operating temperature at that tunnel to the right temperature."
This is why I've found IndyCar to be a much more entertaining series, where the focus is about the drivers and about RACING. FI has become an aerodynamic engineering competition driven by arbitrary and politicized FIA edicts. Seriously, when a 15MM floor height rise order, and which engineers deal with it best, is a key element in a racing series' season, that's what you are running. Give me a spec series where yes, chassis setups and overall budgets are important, but the playing field is in essence at the starting line equal, and may the best team and best driver win.
IndyCar is quite a good series. All it's lacking is a big enough audience to get a decent broadcast package.
Big problem is the lack of EQ
hopefully they get competitive but now a days you cant contest for a title unless you hit the ground running and boy did they miss the mark overall
Hi, could you do a alpine video
as eeeeeaaaaarly as 2022 !!! damn that was ages ago
But they had a performance digital ads screen. Hope next year they can integrate to google adsense for extra boost performance.
Norris didn't retire, though, & what's with the sudden simulator mentions? I haven't heard or read such references in the same context as the wind tunnel before.
Zak needs to consider a career change
Keeping all that water in front of the headquarter is probably costing them a lot of money. What a waste
well, maybe they'll get more testing time for next year
These guys would be better designing for a 20 mil ride hight increase and tuning down on track from there.Go big!
9 minute video in 1 word.
Everything.
1:00 so because McLaren backed Toto Mercedes’ effort to raise the floor by 15mm; they themselves now have a weak floor. McLaren is a joke.
Why is Seidl so highly thought of when he is responsible for their poor start in 2023? Based off Mclarens results from the 21, 22 and 23 cars that he would have been responsible for they’re going backwards
well maybe - bc of McLarens drastic financial situation he couldn't implement all of the development he wanted to?
I think the new teams, Red Bull and Mercedes AMG Petronas have really sucked the life out of what McLaren was...Red Bull got newey and a few other mechanics and engineers, Mercedes strip them of the factory status and took Lewis...McLaren have a long road ahead to transform itself and they've begun laying the ground work now, but they need to be patient. I hope Lando stays there and guides them to the top
McLaren LOST all of that, they handed Newey on a silver platter to RB, and infuriated Merc with Spygate.
@@NERGYStudios yeah, the McLaren board overruled Newey in 2002-2004 with some decisions and spygate was just a scummy thing to do...Ron dennis had really lost it
Wdym factory status, they were always a customer team
McLaren sucked the life out of Williams first by that logic
@@mohammadnashitsiddiqui2168 McLaren enjoyed near-factory status pre-2010.
How do they expect to fight at the front when they start every season by taking several steps backwards?
Credit to Stella for being frank about the problems and admitting the downsides. Sounds like a lot of organizational chaos going on behind the scenes
None of their fundamental race one issues were due to Aerodynamics though. They had mechanical failures on both cars.
Maybe Ron Dennis - way back when - should not have spent so, much money making the McLaren facilities look as fancy?
And used that saved money to build a wind tunnel on site.
☮
You're right.
Arguably, the were in an even worse place last year, so i'm not seeing them out of the fight yet, who knows if they will challenge for P4 by the end of the season after all
The main reason is the team principal who’s job should have been made defunct
i thought they sacked the main weakness last year…..i guess not. Let’s be honest, the main weakness is Zak Brown and Janes Key
Aren't Mercedes using a very similar floor edge geometry on their W14? Could that be one of their problems?
Yep. Mercedes and McLaren both used very similar floors.
Playing catch up even before the season started always means trouble. They are definitely chasing. Not the other teams, but their own tail.
Up sh-t creek without a paddle
The question shouldn't be what they did get wrong, but what they DIDN'T get wrong.
Even if I was a millionaire I would avoid buying a McLaren "supercar" because I would doubt that it would handle as well as any of its competitors. If they can't make a good F1 car why would I trust them to design a street car?
And they axed Ricciardo for their under performing 2022 car?
Annoying that at the first 22 test McLaren looked to have great vortex control on the original lower floor regs, but their front wing concept couldn’t push enough cooling into the new smaller brake ducts at hotter tracks, hence nowhere in Bahrain 22, then a podium at damp Imola just weeks later. By the time McLaren had sorted their front out, Mercedes had the rules changed to benefit Red Bull 🤷🏻♀️ so ending Ferrari’s season. That finished Binotto, which shook-up McLaren just as they needed to pick-up on the consequences.
A rule of management is any organisation in senior restructure, the horizon watch suffers.
02:46 - Lando’s “restructure face”
I also clicked faster than MCL60 and Yamaha & Honda MotoGP 2023!
I mean dude...they have that fancy office by the lake..how much did that cost? They should have had their "new wind tunnel" years ago if they hadn't spent a grip of cash on that office man! Right?
Yap yap yap... been talking them self's up for years and getting no where. Upgrades now or a new wind tunnel just gets them back in the mid field instead of last where they've been a long time.
According to me, Mclaren is the 7th best team rn behind alpine and alfa romeo, it is actually not as bad as people say and it is defenitely faster than the williams and alphatauri. Ig it will finish 6th this year behind alpine and the top 4
The team with two biggest Gen Z A-holes is doing the worst? Serves them right.
How do you people even function in regular society?
If the car weve seen so far isn't their real 2023 car then it be less disappointed in them.
Isn't there a wind tunnel with Jaguar or whatever they could lease?
What double dnf? Norris was 2 Laps behind at the end. Not a dnf
So they sold their own factory and now rent it back to save costs... But they're doing the exact opposite with the wind tunnel.
Hmmmm....
no if you don't know then don' t speak...McLaren was going through bankruptcy at that time due to lack of sponsors so they sold their factory to gain some money...then came zac brown with loads of sponsors and loaned that factory for a period of time by qatari investments
Main problem is Zack the Marshmallow man, bad management for so long… Look at L Stroll handled improvement in Aston, that is how a management should be, pick the best people and act fast.
It’s embarrassing when Aston Martin have made the leap they’ve been talking about for over 5 years now
Obviously there are reasons but why would mclaren pay so much to use a wind tunnel in the EU (not including shipping their parts back and forth cost) when they could pay Mercedes to use theirs like Aston Martin does seeming as they do buy off of Merc for parts. Or would that have been even more expensive?
Honestly, i'm just sort of tired with Mclaren. First it was the engine (honda) that was the problem, but the chasy was excelent they said. Now, for some reason it has jumped to the aero being bad because of the wind tunnel - the same wind tunnel that produced the excelent chasy during their honda partnership.
Even though McLaren used to be a tough fighter ... Remembering Hakkinen and Kimi 😥
“Mclaren is underperforming” ?
Surely it’s “Mclaren are underperforming” They are a team not a person
Hollow optimism, upgrades hardly ever live up to the hype and hope teams put on them. I think Norris will be elsewhere in the grid for 2024
Cars with advanced competitive engines are always fighting for pole
Guess they can thank their engine supplier for 😭so much to the FIA about their porpoising issue last year getting the floors raised this year and wrecking McLaren's hopes of any recovery to the front of the grid !!
What with the $20 odd million they are paying Danny Ric and several million more on wind tunnel rent they seem to have quite a bit wrong this season.
They should blame Honda again.
Without any experienced driver to help them develop the car, I don't see them go anywhere. Lando and 2nd driver are both roookies. Danny Ric has more experience than who could've helped the car development. Even Carlos had better experience than both.
The same rule that EVERY OTHER TEAM had to deal with.. not good enough im afraid, and i'd suggest Dan is better off.
Not sure how development works but shouldn’t you do some tests on what other people are doing and not just assuming your design is better?