tos tng, shields up, full power, 1 blast, shield at 20-40% 2nd blast, shields down, minimal damage to deck x 3rd shot, heavy damage to deck and warp core inoperable, 4rth, warp core breach in
Eh in TOS or TOS movies shields held up decently, more than that actually. In the first movie in fact the new shields the ship has are even a plot point!
@@greenumbrellacorp5744 In TNG era what always struck me is that the Enterprise was allowed to be pummeled badly. One assumed the ship was an explorator and thus really not that powerful, then the episode in which the Borg appear and you see the D shoot like crazy, so crazy that half(or more) the episodes upon being attacked would have been resolved instantly with that level of firepower.
Yep good move Tho yeah brining a reasherch class ship to combat not the best idea lol Enterprise is a exploration shi so probably the better combat ready
Even though it was brief, seeing the D7 in combat was a true thrill. There is after all a very good reason why the design was continually used by the Empire.
Not to mention, it was the Klingon’s favorite design just like the Connies were the favorite design of the Federation along with the Miranda and Excelsior
The only thing I would change on this version of the Enterprise is to give it Vertical Pylons like the original Enterprise. But other than that I think it is a very good modernization of the Enterprise.
the glass on the bridge angled struts and the inconsistency with the size i would change but other then that this is a good modernization, although the original could’ve just been brought back with minor improvements
Classic beam phasers in 5:25 to 5:40 and in the D7 arrival make the battle feel much more authentic and engaging than hundreds of little pew-pews. They're learning!
Wasn't a fan of season one, but I gotta say when I saw at the end the new version of Pikes Enterprise I was all in. Season two really made a difference and that re-imagined Enterprise is one of the best looking scifi ships I've ever seen.
I think that this is a great Star Trek show, of course it has a lot of flaws but overall is a solid and enjoyable experience unless you are one of those fundamentalist trekkies. I like the ships, and the characters too, specially Saru.
@@Wen6543 I wouldn’t call it whining. I like the show, took a bit to get past the Klingons but other than that it’s some decent sci-fi. They got the enterprise right, with its retro modern feel, I just wish they gave the same consideration to discovery’s design is all
@@tyler_bt3326 I think the reason Disco looked so different was because it was constructed in a different shipyard if I remember right. I couldn’t see her without the two individual dishes
I think most of those are drones. There is no way that two ships with combined personnel if almost 600 could spare pilots for what seems like over a thousand shuttlepods
Enterprise: Shoots forward at light speed Discovery: Flips and disappears Who wins the race? Discovery... I guess teleporting is faster than light speed
Well, there's no point of them funding, testing and using the highly dangerous spore drive if its slower than their current warp speeds... Spore drive is described as able to go from point A to point B in a blink of an eye..
Oh my, the Discoprise, she's quite the beauty! I personally can't wait to see her in her own spin-off series at some point. They carried this season, it says enough! :)
@@tam504 And the show was so much better than the original shows. At least to my opinion that is. The direction was more or less similar, each characters had their arc,there were some dark episodes here and there, and let's not forget the non-stop action and comedy which were on point. The CG was an added bonus! Whomever directed Episode 4 & 9 of the show deserves to direct a new movie for the Alien franchise! :)
@@VipapkStudiosOfficial Headslap Palmface.... you do realise Discovery is breaking almost all established canon, the plots are very predictable and the Space Jesus God in Training Burnham is always right and saving the whole universe. The other main characters are just background noise at this point, even the villains. AND THE MOST EXPLORED RACE THE KLINGONS NOW HAVE NO HAIR AND ARE FRICKING PURPLE.
As good as these scenes were... Star Trek isn't about little ship fights like this. That's more a BSG thing. And also... where the fuck were they keeping all those ships? Constitution and Disco must be hollow to fit all those shuttles.
Startrek is about literally anything it wants to be, from the beginning it was a show that borrowed from every other genre with zero remorse. You seem to forget that epic battles like Wolf359 are what saved the franchise, even the most diehard fans had gotten tired of the same ol' mini melodrama episodic inconsequential stories that defined early TNG. An epic battle to end a season is something that's been part of trek ever since, and if you want the more cerebral trek fare Discovery has that as well.
@@DrewLSsix True! Love me some eyecandy. As much as I love some amazing Picard speech anyday, sometimes I want to see chunks blown off ships and see these amazing beasts in action instead of the usual staredown.
@@DrewLSsix Nonsense. There was NO "Battle of Wolf 359" that "saved the franchise". It happened off-screen. The actual drama and tension and acting are what made that episode, and frankly the entire franchise, work and be remembered. The "war-porn" that you seem to pretend is inherent to Star Trek has only been present during the war episodes of Deep Space Nine in the late 1990's (the last two seasons) and the JJ Abram movies. That's it. No reason to retcon history in an effort to excuse STD's lack of substance over 'pew-pew' laser fights.
In every iteration of Star Trek, (space) battles have looked very different. Even with Kirk's Enterprise, in the original TOS movies, every director took a slightly different approach to how to portray these confrontations. So I'll just take this as one more in a long line of different takes on ST space combat.
It's all just steadily improved or different takes each time. So far the pinnacle has to be star trek nemesis for live action stuff. Beam phasers, torpedoes and quantum's up against the disruptors of the scimitar, lots of shots exchanged but not a ridiculous amount. It was really good stuff. The issue mainly with the discovery stuff is that they went with pulse phasers and bolts to try and make things more flashy and explosive, which is kinda cool in some ways and works better for conveying crazy firepower than beams to a degree, buuut the beam phasers just look so much better and fundamentally are better.
Your dislike means nothing. And also, the context of the episode explains why they are doing this - they are fighting a massively overpowering force and need to throw everything they have at it.
Agreed it doesn't seem right, but is like to point out that the Scimitar Shinzons ship from Nemesis had a massive fighter complement, also the Federation Peregrine Class of fighters which we are during the Dominion war, and let's also not forget The Vaadwaur.
Ballet? You must be talking about the non-canon shuttles and fighters, because the all the capital ships were stationary, and just shooting at each other?...no evasive manuveres in this era?
So the guys behind this whole scene must have recently watched Star Wars, Iron Man, Independence Day resurgence, Enders game and Battlestar Galactica as they wrote it. Also I’m pretty sure that Klingon ship was making a T-Rex roar as it plowed they the control ships
Klingon's get a pass. Those Cleave ships are ancient even for the Klingon's it would make sense they would get a T-Rex roar. This was probably the last hurrah for them before being replaced by the Klingon standard ships proper. So they should make a final fuck you entrance in style what better than jumping in and literally tearing apart your victim by the bow of the ship and having them torn apart by such a ancient and soon to be extinct but powerful ship? >:D
@@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent Funny thing is in STO as a Klingon, you can get a device that lets you call in a Cleave ship to ram your enemies. It's as satisfying as it sounds. Course, there's some ship it just goes "boink" off of, like Borg Unimatrix vessels (which, granted, ridiculously dwarf a cleave ship in size, the only other ships even coming close being Voth Citadel dreadnoughts)
Say what you want about this scene but it was surprisingly realistic. Two capital ships remaining somewhat stationary while the fighting is done by auxiliary craft. Akin to naval warfare.
@@ion1226 lol u sure I mean the defiant is fast but the galaxy? The excelsior? The constitution? And to remind you crossfield class is even older than the constitution
Interesting jarring off-key piano notes 1:18 . Then Enterprise warps in like "hey's how's it going?" 1:34 love how they mess with angles showing how up and down isn't absolute in space.
I love the Enterprise and its blue, beam phasers, but in my opinion... Woof. R2-Eve droids. Hundreds of shuttles and drones launched from two medium size ships lacking the space to carry even 10 drop craft. Swarm tactics that pose a threat despite photon torpedoes. An un-detonated photon torpedo scenario with which the previously introduced droids cannot help at all. Iron Man-style suit replicated in less than an hour. This episode was a tangled rats' nest of poor writing. Really, this was my experience with DiSC season's 1 and 2. Aside from the actor playing Pike, the seasons have actually gotten worse for me.
It was a mad scramble to cobble together every trope or element from every major sci-fi/fantasy property out there to salvage this show. To be fair, season 2 vastly improved over season 1, but I'll never get over the whole "to save the Federation I'm going to start a war" bs and then throwing the mirror universe down out throats
@@astrofilmes7896 I like how much you guys are limiting your imaginative scope. for the Connie and even the Discovery. These ships are first of all massive so their launch bays could hold the huge amount of worker bees you see on screen. Second I could imagine trek looking more like this if they had the budgets back in the 60s. Shows clearly a visual reboot. I personally don't mind though if they didn't want this level of argument just set it in the future. Also even though it isnt technically canon Mr. Scotts Guide to the enterprise lists worker bee as being on board the refit. My gripes with discovery come from pacing. This isn't all the writers fault their show runner changed 3 times. How does that not fuck shit up.
I"m not really a fan of DSC, but I gotta admit, this space battle is pretty awesome. It reminds me of the Battlestar Galactica battles from the 2004 series. Also, I really like the way they kept faithful the the Enterprise's blue beam weapons from the original series and not those 'pew pew' type phaser effects.
Right away in Discovery, they fixed my one major gripe about DS9. In Discovery, Starships were treated like STARSHIPS, with SHIELDS. They weren't just being blown up left and right, they TOOK constant fire until their shields collapsed, even in the Battle of the Binary Stars. A whole several minutes of battle passed before any ships were destroyed, and very few of them at that. How many did the Federation actually lose in the battle? Two? The rest damaged or fled?
@@k1productions87 DS9 did great with their battles since they were facing an unknown Dominion that could overpower Starfleet shields. You could see as the war went on that the Federation and allies adapted, even making the Dominion notice and comment about it.
@@BigKnGa which doesn't explain why a Cardassian Galor-class still fall to a couple phaser hits with no hint of shields in that same battle. Nevermind the numerous Dominion ships one-shotted as well. Ordinary phasers still need time to punch through shields, especially of a comparably heavy starship. But nope, gotta have more ships blowing up. ... oh, unless its the Defiant, which continued to have working shields and take hit after hit after hit. So if Dominion weapons continued to penetrate shields... the Defiant should also be affected. But nope, she's the hero ship.
@MrHoppers002 In theory, sure. In practice, not possible. Spore Drive is experimental beyond the confines of Federation Law at this stage, as it employs genetic engineering as part of the system. Not to mention they damage the Network, so imagine what thousands of ships would do in a short space of time. Its a dead end technology with limited application.
This is great, thank you for taking the time to do this! Discovery got a lot better in season 2, and while there were still a bunch of things that didn't quite make complete sense from the beginning of the season until the end, it was still a lot of fun. Can't wait for season 3, truly going where (and when) no one has gone before!! Lol @ Cochrane in the last few seconds
In both seasons, Discovery started out okay but quickly took a nose dive mid-season. Season 2 held to that pattern. Some of the first episodes had me thinking this season would turn around, but it quickly went off track. Introducing Section 31 was a mistake, the Spock/Burnham drama was a mistake, the AI subplot was downright ridiculous, and the AI/Section 31 stuff was cartoonishly bad. And now... in season 3... Discovery destroys the Federation so Burnham can re-found the federation! *sigh*
@@mauricioos2294 because likely due to budget constraints multiple ships and complex composite FX shots were out of the question until late in the franchise's existence so the universe is passively established to not have much in the way of small fighting craft. Changing technology and tastes in show composition have led to a bit of a retcon in that regard.
@@mauricioos2294 yah, it would be easy, I hope in Picard they pull designs from Star Trek Online, either they use dominion war or TNG designs and essentially do ships we've seen before, or they should just use some of the new designs from STar Trek Online, would love to see those ships on screen. I actually like STD's ship designs and how everything looks. it all looks really good. just the wrong place wrong time for them and the tech, the Klingon Redesign and their new ships look cool, but it doesn't work for the Klingons. they could have used the Klingon redesign for a new race, and maybe for to start a war with the Federation, Discovery uses the Spore Drive and with a malfunction gets stranded in the race's territory, maybe they see some part of the Spore Drive tech as religious and it's use as Heresy, and like the Covenant from Halo they hound Discovery for a couple episodes, then the drive is fixed and Discovery heads back to home, we get a few episodes of exploration, then the new race arrives having tracked Discovery home and begins a genocidal campaign against the Federation because of their religion. the STD Klingons fought the war for religious reasons at first, then they didn't care and did it because it focused their house's fighting to a foreign enemy instead of themselves. with this idea of a race seeing the Spore Drive Tech as religious blasphemy, they can tell a compelling story about how blind religious faith can sometimes lead people down a dark path. maybe the aliens attack from the shadows, they have small numbers but maybe have their own variation of the Spore Drive, not able to just teleport anywhere, but can probably do limited jumps in a short range, thus they attack near the border and if they can get a ship by normal warp in deep enough they can launch surprise attacks on Fed bases. essentially they target mostly civilian places and the Federation with only 1 malfunctioning Spore Drive can't react fast enough, eventually they find a way to end the war and we get into the normal plot of Season 2, then during the final battle the new race shows up in force to attack everyone, thus it's a cool 3 way fight between the Zealots, Control, and the Federation. Discovery does then use some tech to fry all the spore drives in the area and leaves through the wormhole with the only one left. and better focus on the tech of the time and aesthetics being correct and you could have an awesome show. I hate how Lucasfilm and CBS are continuing these 2 classic Scifi series, but forget the most basic of series continuity, STD using tech and ship designs I wouldn't have a problem with in Trek, but using them at the wrong time in the series. and Lucusfilm not only getting the fates of OT characters and their personalities wrong, but also failing to keep the story sensical and with basic concepts from the previous film. like TLJ making the characters and plot from TFA pointless with Luke just wanting to die any way, thus the fears of the First Order are dumb as Luke wouldn't train any new Jedi, and the heroes needing his help is pointless as he didn't want to come and help.
For a while, I thought this battle was rather odd, seeing how the Enterprise isn't normally known for having a full squadron of battle-ready shuttles & drones. But then it hit me: This is a reference to the _original_ Enterprise, the famed aircraft carrier from WWII. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire plotline had been planned just to give them an excuse to make the ol' NCC-1701 into a spacecraft carrier to honour its namesake. -Which just becomes hilariously full-circle when -_-Azur Lane-_- turns WWII Enterprise into a (sometimes not-so) subtle -_-Star Trek-_- reference.-
Long story short, @@TheEmeraldMenOfficial, _Azur Lane_ is a "ship girl" game like _Kantai Collection_ or _Warship Girls_ , where WWII-era warships are turned into cute girls. Enterprise is one of them, based on the WWII Enterprise. ...She's prone to swooping in from out of nowhere and saving the day, bringing hope to her allies by her presence alone, in the exact same way as _Star Trek_ 's Enterprises tend to do.
One thing I never understood, do the Discovery and Enterprise little pods have people in them or are they also remote drones?I get the shuttles ( Still don't understand how they had a carrier fleet worth of shuttles in the docking bay...)
I think it was mentioned they were modifying miners alike shuttles into weapon usage. I forgot but I think most were remote controlled while a few were actually contained pilots thus control.
@MrHoppers002 or blow discovery up even if it had rsised shields in the previous episode... yow know, it' s very easy, you just shoot phasers and then a torpedo
MrHoppers002 No... assuming Discovery writers obey their own continuity (they don’t) the AI would have beamed the device off the ship or at least contained it within a forcefield. If Future AI controls the ship, blowing it up wouldn’t work.
The federation should have used ships like these during the Dominon War 2:45 . Actually now that I think about it, they probably did in some form. I mean, these Section 31 drone-motherships seem to be REALLY overpowered and if the Enterprise and the Discovery wouldn't have had this ridiculous plot armour they probably would've gotten shredded in like 30 seconds.
Is it a lot of “pew pew”? Yes. Is it a lot of eye candy? Yes. Is the dialog have more cheese than an Amish dairy. Yes. But it is the first time we are shown a battle of how it is supposed to be. Flak barrier, salvo after salvo hitting the shields, non-Newtonian maneuvering, constant phaser delivery. We were always told how much the Enterprise was a serious badass in fights. Now we see. And no, the Dominion War stuff in DS9 does not count. As much as I want the Ben Sisko’s Muthafuckin Pimp Hand to show it, the VFX never was able to bring it to fruition.
Joshua A So there was talk of that for a while. The problem they had was that their masters were all in 4:3. They couldn’t crop, nor “pan and scan” without losing too much of the shots. Basically, they would have to redo all the VFX from scratch. It’s certainly much easier nowadays, but it’ll be very expensive. No one wants to foot that bill. **cough cough, GoFundMe, cough cough**
Ship to ship communication is all you got? You can literally teleport to Earth and tell them what's happening! You could teleport right onto the front lawn of Star Fleet headquarters!
So I'm stoned and I can't tell... Is this a fanmade cgi recreation? I seem to remember the actual episode's scenes having a bit more oomph to them. Idk this just kinda reminds me of something I'd see in a video game. Couldn't begin to tell you why. It just looked a hell of a lot more real when I watched it on my PC. I'm on my phone now
Its because of the DCP, you're most likely watching in it H264, REC709. You therefore have a compression in the image that makes the whole scene feel more... bland ? It's just the Codec used.
I wish warp flare was still a thing. I know it wasnt in tos but i tend to think thats due to technical limitations of the time. They couldve put it in discovery for the same reasons the enterprise looks different.
The whole saucer doesn't spin, it never did. Only the external hull structure spun. Even in previous scenes, you can still see the windows on the outer edge remaining stationary while the registry number was rotating around.
Me too. It's a shame that STD couldn't have been more accurate to TOS. I don't mean 1960s effects. But a subtle redesign of TOS Elements that doesn't contradict (Kinda like what Rogue One did with locations from A New Hope). Aside from the small fighters I rather liked the Battle. The STD Enterprise is also pleasant to see (even if it isn't accurate lol).
I look at TOS like it was a stage play. The story was what was important, not the production. Its like expecting the movie version of Les Miserables to look exactly like it did on Broadway. Nor did we expect to see a perfect recreation of Independence Hall while watching "Hamilton" There are things that had to be changed/updated for the sheer sake of plausibility. Sure, looking much like TOS would please life-long fans,... but ONLY them. It would look silly to newer audiences and potentially turn them off the show,... and that would be a far greater number lost than any who would have stayed because of faithful imagery. And... it is unfair to compare TOS to A New Hope. The two were over a decade apart, AND A New Hope was a major motion picture with a budget to match. TOS was an unappreciated side project that NBC couldn't wait to get rid of, and they treated its production accordingly.
@@k1productions87 instead of pleasing the millions of fans. It pleases only a small new audience. Not a very good trade. Nothing in Star Trek is plausible. Trying to make it match real world developments is an effort in futility. TOS is the way it was always meant to be. Hence why DS9, TNG, and ENT faithfully recreated it's look when showing the mid 23rd Century. If the look of TOS is no longer Canon.... Doesn't that also make the TOS references in later series not Canon as well? That would imply that those series were also no longer Canon. If Star Trek Discovery is the only show with these specific contradictions. It is the odd one out. Effectively separate from the rest. Canon now means "CBS Exclusive" or made to look "Modern" due to modern tastes changing.
@@richardched6085 Uhm... sorry, the "millions of fans" don't exist anymore, and there is no choice BUT to repopulate the fanbase and build it up anew. In fact, since 2009, the fanbase has grown faster and larger than at any point since the early 90's... and only maybe two years into the 90's at that. DS9's supposedly faithful recreation was just meant as a tongue in cheek joke for an anniversary special, and was NEVER meant to be taken seriously. on top of that, it unleashed some of the worst continuity fuckups this side of the Klingon Bird of Prey with a Cloaking Device and a Neutral Zone. Canon is not visual, its historical. Who did what, where, when, how and why. The visuals are secondary. Every single piece of TOS can still be canon even with the visual changes. Meanwhile, even though TNG kept the visual aspects, it fucked over quite a bit of TOS's historical canon.... but that's perfectly fine because we like TNG, is that it? You really need to take a moment and examine what "canon" actually means.
@@k1productions87 at least TNG didn't pretend to be in the TOS era. Most Canon discrepancies pre-2017 can be explained. But STD made catastrophic changes from day 1 that can't be explained. And it only got worse as it went on. Visuals are directly tied to Canon. Those millions of fans do indeed exist. And I am one of those who joined the fandom when I saw the 2009 Star Trek. That film managed to show a more modern view of Star Trek without frakking up what came before by taking place in an Alternate Reality. Like the BSG Reimagining, STD is a reboot of the Prime Universe. Events, locations, and names are identical. But that's where the similarities end. If you love STD. That's great. I tried to like it. If CBS says it's Canon. Then it is. But that also means that the definition of Canon has changed. As CBS is noticably ignoring the source material. STD is the start of their new "generation" of Star Trek Canon that is similar. But not equal to the Canon that came before.
As much as i not a fan of this show, to actually see a star trek series that bothers to show weapons fire impacting on shields was a nice touch. But those sound effects, ugh!
Here is a Query Question? Could the Enterprise, be the Forgotten Enterprise of Captain Robert April, Robert April was killed supposedly Killed, the ship is Reffited and Captain Pike Takes Command? This just a Hypothesis. I might be Barking up the Wrong tree on this one.
Daniel Thorp anything is possible with this hack writer/show runner but I digress I believe there was a Star Trek 2009 tie in comic, or was in Into Darkness?, anywho in that comic series they showed the old school Enterprise with Robert April and in it it was either destroyed or decommissioned, I forget which, but after that they built the 2009 Star Trek Enterprise. It didn’t make much sense as they had the same registry numbers but it was kind of an answer.
forget the whimpering I LIKE IT i was entertained that's all that matters to me i have been watching trek since it first aired and will continue to watch anything trek as far as the people that don't like this or that their opinion is without value to me and i don't care if they don't like mine because i am indifferent to how they feel about it
I haven't watches the series, but I am Star Trek fan. been on deployment. What is the Section 31 fleet? They look like Federation ships. Is this like a Rogue fleet?
Spoilers Ahead, you have been warned Section 31 is a secret division of Starfleet, they are federation ships, they were taken over by an AI called control.
I'm assuming that shield technology advanced to the point that made swarm fighter tactics like this obsolete. They couldn't mount powerful enough weapons on such small fighters to make any dent to stronger shield tech
@@weeklyequation I believe this is why we never really see this tactic much later on. By TNG, I believe it was, we see that targeting sensors can accurately hit a much, much smaller ship with pinpoint accuracy almost all of the time. Couple that with capital ship weapons being more than enough to destroy or disable a fighter sized craft in one or two shots.
It does look super cool, even if the “tactics” make absolutely no sense at all, and you can’t just be surrounded by a cone of fighters getting blown up and not be shotgun blasted to vapor and gore chunks by the shrapnel.
Well, I'd take that over starships blowing up left and right in the unnecessarily massive fleet battles in DS9. they can have all the ship sthey want,... but don't treat Akiras and Excelsiors like fightercraft, jeez. At least here, ship shave SHIELDS.
There's no tension either. Their shields are holding up to thousands of shots. I've hated STD shields from the start. They appear over any surface from seemingly nowhere. Not the way Star Trek battles are supposed to be.
The bigger question is, why didn't they have automated repair devices until now? We do know automation existed. Answer: they never had the budget to realize it on screen, and at no point in any episode or movie did it apply to the story.
Section 31 has a fleet of 30 ships with cloaking technology and hundreds if not thousands of battle drones, where was this Fleet during the Klingon war, it would have made a huge difference, even if all they did was take out light targets like Supply convoys, small colonies, isolated ships ect
Thirty advanced ships are nice but, on the scale of a full-on war between federation and Klingons, it's really not significant. you're talking thousands of starships on both sides there. At least that's what most fan-calculations state and I believe there's a quote in discovery as well, confirming several thousand active Starfleet vessels. And yes, Star Trek never was very good at conveying that scale.
@MrHoppers002 These ships are not intended to be autonomous. Before Control took over, they were crewed like any other Starfleet vessel. So during the Klingon war, they would not have had that advantage. Yes, they have advanced weaponry, but nothing which would change the war. And sure, we know Starfleet does develop computers to run starships without humans, but we also know this does not really offer any great advantage. By the time of TNG, Starfleet does emply fully unmanned sentry ships - we see them in Best of Both Worlds as part of the defensive perimeter of Mars. But they are not used in any greater capacity anywhere else.
@@MrMartechi your response just brings up more questions than answers it was stated in the episode choose your pain season 1 episode 5 the USS Discovery was single-handedly turning the tide of the Klingon War using the spore Drive until it disappeared to the Mirror Universe , one specific line stays that they were hitting their supply convoys, a single ship was causing the Klingon so much Havoc that they went out of their way to capture Captain Lorca to unravel Discovery Secret it was stated by control the federation's AI whose purpose was to Safeguard the Federation against all threats control states that there are 7000 active Starfleet ships that it gives orders to, how is an artificial intelligence that has access to vast amounts of military hardware and far more resourceful than the Klingon Empire not able to crush them, it would be like the Borg vs the Federation at wolf 359 except the Klingons are the Federation control does nothing when the Federation is being threatened so the heroes can save the day then when the day is saved control becomes a threats to the heroes unleashing it super intelligence and Military might on the heroes the hero's Survive by having plot armor and saved the day again this is something you would see in a cartoon there's just no realism to it
@@damirbabic8168 Of course you can bring up more questions based on my response. Just as I can go on finding explanations for them, which then bring up more questions and so forth and so on. And in the end, we both realize that - oh wonder - the Star Trek Universe isn't actually realistic. The question simply is at what point you are willing to suspend your disbelief and take the story for what it is. Maybe Discovery doesn't convince you to that, that's fine. Though personally, I'm not sure whether this show really is worse in that regard than any other in Star Trek. If you want the questions answered: Discovery's spore drive grants it unlimited mobility, so it can jump to supply lines and enemy bases without any chance of them intercepting or even noticing it. I don't know how you imagine 30 vessels with advanced weaponry but conventional drives could ever match that. Cool, they have big guns, and they might even be able to do some covert ops with their neat disguise. But that will still never allow them to randomly strike at the heart of enemy territory as quickly as discovery did. And how is Control coordinating seven thousand starfleet ships not able to crush the klingon empire? Maybe it's because the Klingon Empire has twice as many vessels dedicated completely to warfare as compared to the more science-based starfleet vessels. And don't forget the Klingons won only because of their near-perfect cloaking technology. They used cloaked vessels tailing starfleet ships into starbases to blow them up. It's not hard to imagine how a highly sophisticated military would fail to prevent this. More than enough real life examples for that. Finally: How exactly do you know Control did nothing when the Federation was being threatened? Just because we didn't see it on-screen? Is it not more likely Section 31 was busy during that time doing what intelligence services do - gathering intel, taking out VIPs, sabotaging the enemy? Or, even simpler: What if Section 31 did indeed harass supply lines and klingon facilities just like you think they should. There's no reason to assume they didn't. It's just that Discovery *on top of that* made enough of a difference to tip the war. Of course we only see our heroes story, and of course our heroes are the ones miraculously surviving through everything - but that doesn't necessarily mean *only* they had any impact.
@@MrMartechi given the fact that control was able to wipe out all sentient life in the galaxy, it doesn't seem like the Klingon Empire even with a larger Fleet as you state and its cloaking technology was a threat and given the way we see control operates there is no reason it couldn't have been able to hack the entire Klingon Fleet they made control to be a more of a threat than the Borg, control was not only able to take control of ships but organisms, as well as the ability to create Holograms to fool the chain of command like it, did with Spock and Starfleet so control could have easily taken over a Klingon ship its entire crew and then send fake information to the Klingon Empire and then also download the entire information from the Klingon Empire and then been in a position to make a far more powerful and evolve to more perfection
Probably the only time in Federation history that shields aren't reduced to 15% after one volley of phaser fire...
tos tng, shields up, full power, 1 blast, shield at 20-40% 2nd blast, shields down, minimal damage to deck x 3rd shot, heavy damage to deck and warp core inoperable, 4rth, warp core breach in
DS9 is the biggest offender.
During the Dominion War arc..... every ship on both sides were made of Reynolds Wrap.
Eh in TOS or TOS movies shields held up decently, more than that actually. In the first movie in fact the new shields the ship has are even a plot point!
@@greenumbrellacorp5744 In TNG era what always struck me is that the Enterprise was allowed to be pummeled badly. One assumed the ship was an explorator and thus really not that powerful, then the episode in which the Borg appear and you see the D shoot like crazy, so crazy that half(or more) the episodes upon being attacked would have been resolved instantly with that level of firepower.
Remember Po helped them defend!!
3:42 Enterprise moving to take the oncoming fire will always be my favorite moment
Yep good move
Tho yeah brining a reasherch class ship to combat not the best idea lol
Enterprise is a exploration shi so probably the better combat ready
@@neoncey well it’s not like they had warships
@@neoncey Constitution class had some of the best tech in the fleet though. Powerful stuff.
Even though it was brief, seeing the D7 in combat was a true thrill. There is after all a very good reason why the design was continually used by the Empire.
It was like the excelsior and Miranda of the empire
Not to mention, it was the Klingon’s favorite design just like the Connies were the favorite design of the Federation along with the Miranda and Excelsior
Say what you like about Discovery, but their version of the Enterprise was lush.
say the hate all you want, as a true Trekie i really loved the modernized design for the original TOS NCC-1701 USS Enterprise.
The only thing I would change on this version of the Enterprise is to give it Vertical Pylons like the original Enterprise. But other than that I think it is a very good modernization of the Enterprise.
WONDERFULL ENTERPRISE
the glass on the bridge angled struts and the inconsistency with the size i would change but other then that this is a good modernization, although the original could’ve just been brought back with minor improvements
Both ships are pretty dang cool here, however vastly different or non-canon Discovery appears
Classic beam phasers in 5:25 to 5:40 and in the D7 arrival make the battle feel much more authentic and engaging than hundreds of little pew-pews. They're learning!
Wasn't a fan of season one, but I gotta say when I saw at the end the new version of Pikes Enterprise I was all in. Season two really made a difference and that re-imagined Enterprise is one of the best looking scifi ships I've ever seen.
Pretty much agree,I warmed up yo season 1 maybe the last 3 or 4 episodes
Season two Wow worth the wait.
Despite however non-canon Disco looked, y’all gotta say it’s a mighty fine looking ship
hell yes
@@debillington9239 yes, it's one of my favorite designs.
"They've loosing R2 units fast!" 😆
LOL
@@weeklyequation LOL, I like that quote. Where did all the good R2 units go?
The design of the Discovery has grown on me. They also did a good job with the Enterprise.
I think that this is a great Star Trek show, of course it has a lot of flaws but overall is a solid and enjoyable experience unless you are one of those fundamentalist trekkies. I like the ships, and the characters too, specially Saru.
The outer design of discovery would be great minus the spinning saucer section. Just a shame the rest isn’t so consistent with previous trek
@@tyler_bt3326 Why you are whining so much, even Next Generation and The Original Series had serious continuity problems and all that.
@@Wen6543 I wouldn’t call it whining. I like the show, took a bit to get past the Klingons but other than that it’s some decent sci-fi. They got the enterprise right, with its retro modern feel, I just wish they gave the same consideration to discovery’s design is all
@@tyler_bt3326 I think the reason Disco looked so different was because it was constructed in a different shipyard if I remember right. I couldn’t see her without the two individual dishes
So how many Starfleet personnel died flying those shuttles and pods???
I think most of those are drones. There is no way that two ships with combined personnel if almost 600 could spare pilots for what seems like over a thousand shuttlepods
The Feral Tribble If you watched the show and listened well enough, it’s over 200 shuttle pods. He’s referring to the starfleet personel
definitely a lot of drones and armed probes. probes can have phasers and other devices on them
A lot I'm guessing, people die in combat.
Yes
Enterprise: Shoots forward at light speed
Discovery: Flips and disappears
Who wins the race?
Discovery... I guess teleporting is faster than light speed
Michael Nguyen does teleporting count as moving or just not being where you were anymore
Well, there's no point of them funding, testing and using the highly dangerous spore drive if its slower than their current warp speeds...
Spore drive is described as able to go from point A to point B in a blink of an eye..
Fun fact: The Spore Hub Drive allows the Discovery to functionally travel at Warp 1431.
blog.trekcore.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/ship-specs1.jpg
Traveling without moving Dune-style. 😎😉👍
@@seanpazdera6407 I assume that’s TOS scale.
Oh my, the Discoprise, she's quite the beauty! I personally can't wait to see her in her own spin-off series at some point. They carried this season, it says enough! :)
Wish granted!
@@Anduril74871 Yeahh I just saw
Now it’s real.
@@tam504 And the show was so much better than the original shows. At least to my opinion that is. The direction was more or less similar, each characters had their arc,there were some dark episodes here and there, and let's not forget the non-stop action and comedy which were on point. The CG was an added bonus! Whomever directed Episode 4 & 9 of the show deserves to direct a new movie for the Alien franchise! :)
@@VipapkStudiosOfficial Headslap Palmface.... you do realise Discovery is breaking almost all established canon, the plots are very predictable and the Space Jesus God in Training Burnham is always right and saving the whole universe. The other main characters are just background noise at this point, even the villains. AND THE MOST EXPLORED RACE THE KLINGONS NOW HAVE NO HAIR AND ARE FRICKING PURPLE.
As good as these scenes were... Star Trek isn't about little ship fights like this. That's more a BSG thing. And also... where the fuck were they keeping all those ships? Constitution and Disco must be hollow to fit all those shuttles.
Startrek is about literally anything it wants to be, from the beginning it was a show that borrowed from every other genre with zero remorse.
You seem to forget that epic battles like Wolf359 are what saved the franchise, even the most diehard fans had gotten tired of the same ol' mini melodrama episodic inconsequential stories that defined early TNG.
An epic battle to end a season is something that's been part of trek ever since, and if you want the more cerebral trek fare Discovery has that as well.
@@DrewLSsix True! Love me some eyecandy. As much as I love some amazing Picard speech anyday, sometimes I want to see chunks blown off ships and see these amazing beasts in action instead of the usual staredown.
maybe 3D print them as needed
@@DrewLSsix Nonsense. There was NO "Battle of Wolf 359" that "saved the franchise". It happened off-screen. The actual drama and tension and acting are what made that episode, and frankly the entire franchise, work and be remembered. The "war-porn" that you seem to pretend is inherent to Star Trek has only been present during the war episodes of Deep Space Nine in the late 1990's (the last two seasons) and the JJ Abram movies. That's it. No reason to retcon history in an effort to excuse STD's lack of substance over 'pew-pew' laser fights.
@@DrewLSsix What are you even blabbering about. We didn't even see the Battle of Wolf 359 happen in TNG.
Anyone else think of Ender's Game watching this?!
Battlestar Galactica
@@Cumulonimbus82 both
Sure didn't think of Star Trek...
Yeah
Yes I did
In every iteration of Star Trek, (space) battles have looked very different. Even with Kirk's Enterprise, in the original TOS movies, every director took a slightly different approach to how to portray these confrontations. So I'll just take this as one more in a long line of different takes on ST space combat.
It's all just steadily improved or different takes each time. So far the pinnacle has to be star trek nemesis for live action stuff.
Beam phasers, torpedoes and quantum's up against the disruptors of the scimitar, lots of shots exchanged but not a ridiculous amount. It was really good stuff.
The issue mainly with the discovery stuff is that they went with pulse phasers and bolts to try and make things more flashy and explosive, which is kinda cool in some ways and works better for conveying crazy firepower than beams to a degree, buuut the beam phasers just look so much better and fundamentally are better.
Gotta say, the amount of Phaser fire the Enterprise is putting out is pretty bad ass looking.
I've always disliked the idea of "fighters" in Trek, even in DS9. that said, the blue beam TOS phasers make this all worth it for me!
Fighters just make 0 sense, as UFP shios have some damn accurate weapons
Your dislike means nothing. And also, the context of the episode explains why they are doing this - they are fighting a massively overpowering force and need to throw everything they have at it.
Agreed it doesn't seem right, but is like to point out that the Scimitar Shinzons ship from Nemesis had a massive fighter complement, also the Federation Peregrine Class of fighters which we are during the Dominion war, and let's also not forget The Vaadwaur.
@Kato Ho Ten Soeng That's actually how smaller less powerful nations in the real world take on US carrier groups and win in war games.
Fighters in space are stupid... just as here...
What an amazing ballet between the two ships.
Ballet? You must be talking about the non-canon shuttles and fighters, because the all the capital ships were stationary, and just shooting at each other?...no evasive manuveres in this era?
So the guys behind this whole scene must have recently watched Star Wars, Iron Man, Independence Day resurgence, Enders game and Battlestar Galactica as they wrote it.
Also I’m pretty sure that Klingon ship was making a T-Rex roar as it plowed they the control ships
Klingon's get a pass. Those Cleave ships are ancient even for the Klingon's it would make sense they would get a T-Rex roar. This was probably the last hurrah for them before being replaced by the Klingon standard ships proper. So they should make a final fuck you entrance in style what better than jumping in and literally tearing apart your victim by the bow of the ship and having them torn apart by such a ancient and soon to be extinct but powerful ship? >:D
He sure didn't watch star trek that's for sure
@@Quetzalcoatl_Feathered_Serpent Funny thing is in STO as a Klingon, you can get a device that lets you call in a Cleave ship to ram your enemies. It's as satisfying as it sounds.
Course, there's some ship it just goes "boink" off of, like Borg Unimatrix vessels (which, granted, ridiculously dwarf a cleave ship in size, the only other ships even coming close being Voth Citadel dreadnoughts)
Say what you want about this scene but it was surprisingly realistic. Two capital ships remaining somewhat stationary while the fighting is done by auxiliary craft. Akin to naval warfare.
100+ tiny ships came out from enterprise small hanger let alone the manpower to pilot the tiny ship is realistic?
Plus this is space, auxiliary craft dont have much use due to targeting sensors.
star trek ships aren’t supposed to be carriers they are maneuverable and fast
@@ion1226 lol u sure I mean the defiant is fast but the galaxy? The excelsior? The constitution? And to remind you crossfield class is even older than the constitution
@@SudrianTales bruh they re attacking NC1A type ships, they can be targeted ez, it's not like that have a spore drive or smth
Finally,Enterprise shield works....
Lol
Gotta love how the D7's live up to the TOS reputation, with a battlegroup turning up and tearing Section 31 a new one.
.....At least the enterprise looks like the enterprise.
Interesting jarring off-key piano notes 1:18 . Then Enterprise warps in like "hey's how's it going?" 1:34 love how they mess with angles showing how up and down isn't absolute in space.
Star Trek cannon: 10 000 RPM
Star Wars cannon: 10 RPM
What is RPM
@@danielwinkler5854 Rounds per Minute. Like, how fast a car engine's pistons move and how fast a gun shoots.
@@mauricejohnmac AHHH that make more sense
This feels like the final space battle from Mass Effect 3.
The ME3 battle felt like the final battle of the Shadow War in Babylon 5.
2 histories of ships next to each other, beautiful!
Wow the shield is very good, they withstand so many blasts like I'm surprised. Now this is how shields should be operating.
I love the Enterprise and its blue, beam phasers, but in my opinion...
Woof. R2-Eve droids. Hundreds of shuttles and drones launched from two medium size ships lacking the space to carry even 10 drop craft. Swarm tactics that pose a threat despite photon torpedoes. An un-detonated photon torpedo scenario with which the previously introduced droids cannot help at all. Iron Man-style suit replicated in less than an hour. This episode was a tangled rats' nest of poor writing. Really, this was my experience with DiSC season's 1 and 2. Aside from the actor playing Pike, the seasons have actually gotten worse for me.
It was a mad scramble to cobble together every trope or element from every major sci-fi/fantasy property out there to salvage this show. To be fair, season 2 vastly improved over season 1, but I'll never get over the whole "to save the Federation I'm going to start a war" bs and then throwing the mirror universe down out throats
Yes! That's exactly what I think!!! I watch it and think: What the hell was they thinking?
@@astrofilmes7896 I like how much you guys are limiting your imaginative scope. for the Connie and even the Discovery. These ships are first of all massive so their launch bays could hold the huge amount of worker bees you see on screen. Second I could imagine trek looking more like this if they had the budgets back in the 60s. Shows clearly a visual reboot. I personally don't mind though if they didn't want this level of argument just set it in the future. Also even though it isnt technically canon Mr. Scotts Guide to the enterprise lists worker bee as being on board the refit. My gripes with discovery come from pacing. This isn't all the writers fault their show runner changed 3 times. How does that not fuck shit up.
And if I remember correctly, this is also a different timeline as well. So some things may be different than the normal star trek.
@@DarKKlusteR Nope, it's not a different timeline. That's the prime timeline.
I"m not really a fan of DSC, but I gotta admit, this space battle is pretty awesome. It reminds me of the Battlestar Galactica battles from the 2004 series. Also, I really like the way they kept faithful the the Enterprise's blue beam weapons from the original series and not those 'pew pew' type phaser effects.
Thanks, I may try to give it another go. Hopefully the writing will have improved somewhat.
@@calamitysi ...I have found d that with new Star Trek shows, the writing gets better and the stories pick up by the third season...
Right away in Discovery, they fixed my one major gripe about DS9. In Discovery, Starships were treated like STARSHIPS, with SHIELDS. They weren't just being blown up left and right, they TOOK constant fire until their shields collapsed, even in the Battle of the Binary Stars. A whole several minutes of battle passed before any ships were destroyed, and very few of them at that. How many did the Federation actually lose in the battle? Two? The rest damaged or fled?
@@k1productions87 DS9 did great with their battles since they were facing an unknown Dominion that could overpower Starfleet shields. You could see as the war went on that the Federation and allies adapted, even making the Dominion notice and comment about it.
@@BigKnGa which doesn't explain why a Cardassian Galor-class still fall to a couple phaser hits with no hint of shields in that same battle. Nevermind the numerous Dominion ships one-shotted as well. Ordinary phasers still need time to punch through shields, especially of a comparably heavy starship. But nope, gotta have more ships blowing up.
... oh, unless its the Defiant, which continued to have working shields and take hit after hit after hit. So if Dominion weapons continued to penetrate shields... the Defiant should also be affected. But nope, she's the hero ship.
I love that shot of the Enterprise going to warp and discovery using the spore drive
@MrHoppers002 In theory, sure. In practice, not possible. Spore Drive is experimental beyond the confines of Federation Law at this stage, as it employs genetic engineering as part of the system. Not to mention they damage the Network, so imagine what thousands of ships would do in a short space of time. Its a dead end technology with limited application.
Yeah the discovery is literally an experiment and very damaging to the network.
This is great, thank you for taking the time to do this! Discovery got a lot better in season 2, and while there were still a bunch of things that didn't quite make complete sense from the beginning of the season until the end, it was still a lot of fun. Can't wait for season 3, truly going where (and when) no one has gone before!!
Lol @ Cochrane in the last few seconds
you know that in the first double episode they will find out how to get back right? :)
In both seasons, Discovery started out okay but quickly took a nose dive mid-season. Season 2 held to that pattern. Some of the first episodes had me thinking this season would turn around, but it quickly went off track. Introducing Section 31 was a mistake, the Spock/Burnham drama was a mistake, the AI subplot was downright ridiculous, and the AI/Section 31 stuff was cartoonishly bad.
And now... in season 3... Discovery destroys the Federation so Burnham can re-found the federation!
*sigh*
This looks like a stupid cartoon...
The hundreds of ships flying out of the enterprise shuttle bay is hilarious
Now just hear me out on this, it's almost like we need space aircraft carriers. We could call them, I don't, Battlestars maybe?
i never understand why the federation doesn't have anything like aircraft carriers
@@mauricioos2294 because likely due to budget constraints multiple ships and complex composite FX shots were out of the question until late in the franchise's existence so the universe is passively established to not have much in the way of small fighting craft.
Changing technology and tastes in show composition have led to a bit of a retcon in that regard.
@@DrewLSsix or maybe because space fighter are a really stupid idea if you think about it
@@zeash482 everything in startrek is a stupid idea if you think about it....
@@mauricioos2294 yah, it would be easy, I hope in Picard they pull designs from Star Trek Online, either they use dominion war or TNG designs and essentially do ships we've seen before, or they should just use some of the new designs from STar Trek Online, would love to see those ships on screen. I actually like STD's ship designs and how everything looks. it all looks really good. just the wrong place wrong time for them and the tech, the Klingon Redesign and their new ships look cool, but it doesn't work for the Klingons. they could have used the Klingon redesign for a new race, and maybe for to start a war with the Federation, Discovery uses the Spore Drive and with a malfunction gets stranded in the race's territory, maybe they see some part of the Spore Drive tech as religious and it's use as Heresy, and like the Covenant from Halo they hound Discovery for a couple episodes, then the drive is fixed and Discovery heads back to home, we get a few episodes of exploration, then the new race arrives having tracked Discovery home and begins a genocidal campaign against the Federation because of their religion. the STD Klingons fought the war for religious reasons at first, then they didn't care and did it because it focused their house's fighting to a foreign enemy instead of themselves. with this idea of a race seeing the Spore Drive Tech as religious blasphemy, they can tell a compelling story about how blind religious faith can sometimes lead people down a dark path. maybe the aliens attack from the shadows, they have small numbers but maybe have their own variation of the Spore Drive, not able to just teleport anywhere, but can probably do limited jumps in a short range, thus they attack near the border and if they can get a ship by normal warp in deep enough they can launch surprise attacks on Fed bases. essentially they target mostly civilian places and the Federation with only 1 malfunctioning Spore Drive can't react fast enough, eventually they find a way to end the war and we get into the normal plot of Season 2, then during the final battle the new race shows up in force to attack everyone, thus it's a cool 3 way fight between the Zealots, Control, and the Federation. Discovery does then use some tech to fry all the spore drives in the area and leaves through the wormhole with the only one left. and better focus on the tech of the time and aesthetics being correct and you could have an awesome show. I hate how Lucasfilm and CBS are continuing these 2 classic Scifi series, but forget the most basic of series continuity, STD using tech and ship designs I wouldn't have a problem with in Trek, but using them at the wrong time in the series. and Lucusfilm not only getting the fates of OT characters and their personalities wrong, but also failing to keep the story sensical and with basic concepts from the previous film. like TLJ making the characters and plot from TFA pointless with Luke just wanting to die any way, thus the fears of the First Order are dumb as Luke wouldn't train any new Jedi, and the heroes needing his help is pointless as he didn't want to come and help.
Great job on putting it all together.
For a while, I thought this battle was rather odd, seeing how the Enterprise isn't normally known for having a full squadron of battle-ready shuttles & drones. But then it hit me: This is a reference to the _original_ Enterprise, the famed aircraft carrier from WWII. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire plotline had been planned just to give them an excuse to make the ol' NCC-1701 into a spacecraft carrier to honour its namesake.
-Which just becomes hilariously full-circle when -_-Azur Lane-_- turns WWII Enterprise into a (sometimes not-so) subtle -_-Star Trek-_- reference.-
Azur Lane/star trek crossover when?
Which is why, on STO this version of the Enterprise is considered a Legendary Miracle Worker Flight Deck Carrier (T6)
Wait. Explain the Azur Lane thing (keep in mind I know almost nothing about it)
@@TheEmeraldMenOfficial
A mobile game about anthropomorphized WWII-era warships. Its a bit quirky but nice
Long story short, @@TheEmeraldMenOfficial, _Azur Lane_ is a "ship girl" game like _Kantai Collection_ or _Warship Girls_ , where WWII-era warships are turned into cute girls. Enterprise is one of them, based on the WWII Enterprise. ...She's prone to swooping in from out of nowhere and saving the day, bringing hope to her allies by her presence alone, in the exact same way as _Star Trek_ 's Enterprises tend to do.
0:46 the scene the music 😍
Wowwww the ship is FACKING GORGEOUS!
This Battle sequence reminded me of the Game Star Trek Shattered Universe. I played that game way too much growing up
Looks like fireships off the shoulder of Orion... and C-beams glitter in the dark near Tannhauser Gate...
They should have opened up the second the first ship appeared. But damn! Enterprise looked good!
Number one rule of star fleet/the federation never fire first
Long range communication not working, can't call for help. Ship teleport away 20s later
Don't like this show, but I actually quite like the Enterprise's new model, and seeing the Klingon D7's was cool too.
One thing I never understood, do the Discovery and Enterprise little pods have people in them or are they also remote drones?I get the shuttles ( Still don't understand how they had a carrier fleet worth of shuttles in the docking bay...)
I think it was mentioned they were modifying miners alike shuttles into weapon usage.
I forgot but I think most were remote controlled while a few were actually contained pilots thus control.
Captain Christopher Pike, You Da Real MVP!!
Does not hold a candle to the battles in DS9. Too busy and Star Wars-ish.
Also, ennecessary, they could have reamained at warp until the suit was ready
@MrHoppers002 yeah... just keep running, duh
@MrHoppers002 or blow discovery up even if it had rsised shields in the previous episode... yow know, it' s very easy, you just shoot phasers and then a torpedo
@MrHoppers002 probably, at least it would make sense...
MrHoppers002 No... assuming Discovery writers obey their own continuity (they don’t) the AI would have beamed the device off the ship or at least contained it within a forcefield. If Future AI controls the ship, blowing it up wouldn’t work.
It is very weird in star trek to fight with all the small vessels but I think it's a good idea: you use them as a shield
Seeing 1701 and 1031 fighting side by side will never get old.🖖
The federation should have used ships like these during the Dominon War 2:45 .
Actually now that I think about it, they probably did in some form. I mean, these Section 31 drone-motherships seem to be REALLY overpowered and if the Enterprise and the Discovery wouldn't have had this ridiculous plot armour they probably would've gotten shredded in like 30 seconds.
Is it a lot of “pew pew”? Yes.
Is it a lot of eye candy? Yes.
Is the dialog have more cheese than an Amish dairy. Yes.
But it is the first time we are shown a battle of how it is supposed to be. Flak barrier, salvo after salvo hitting the shields, non-Newtonian maneuvering, constant phaser delivery. We were always told how much the Enterprise was a serious badass in fights. Now we see.
And no, the Dominion War stuff in DS9 does not count. As much as I want the Ben Sisko’s Muthafuckin Pimp Hand to show it, the VFX never was able to bring it to fruition.
Kinda why so many people want them to go redo DS9's ship battles and republish the series.
Joshua A So there was talk of that for a while. The problem they had was that their masters were all in 4:3. They couldn’t crop, nor “pan and scan” without losing too much of the shots. Basically, they would have to redo all the VFX from scratch. It’s certainly much easier nowadays, but it’ll be very expensive. No one wants to foot that bill. **cough cough, GoFundMe, cough cough**
@@Josh-iv2bw Look up "What we left behind" updated ship battles, you will NOT be displeased
This is just a hot mess and hokey more boring than anything that has come before. Enterprise has better battles than this mess
@@purestrain3099 I looked, but I'm not sure I can find it. Is it on youtube?
There's so many wet pew pew sounds i just cant take it seriously.
No war is complete without "pew pew pew" 😂
You're right.
It's awful.
@@drm9397 You're right, war is awful.
4:16 bottom right, a tactical flyer collides with a landing pod destroying both. What a random detail to show they aren't military trained.
Did a bit a looking keep your eye on the landing pod it is still there if you turn the speed of the video to its slowest
Ship to ship communication is all you got? You can literally teleport to Earth and tell them what's happening! You could teleport right onto the front lawn of Star Fleet headquarters!
So I'm stoned and I can't tell... Is this a fanmade cgi recreation? I seem to remember the actual episode's scenes having a bit more oomph to them. Idk this just kinda reminds me of something I'd see in a video game. Couldn't begin to tell you why. It just looked a hell of a lot more real when I watched it on my PC. I'm on my phone now
i agree, i remember that the cbs distributed one was better than the netflix in video quality
Its because of the DCP, you're most likely watching in it H264, REC709. You therefore have a compression in the image that makes the whole scene feel more... bland ? It's just the Codec used.
This is some good CGI. I'm genuinely impressed. This from the show or movie?
Star Trek Discovey: show
The show, give it a chance, it´s pretty good, not perfect but the quality overall is great, specially character development which is impressive.
It would be nice, just once, to see a Sovereign class ship lay down really heavy fire like this.
How next level would it need to be?
Does anyone know what soundtrack plays in the first 3 seconds of the video?
I wish warp flare was still a thing. I know it wasnt in tos but i tend to think thats due to technical limitations of the time. They couldve put it in discovery for the same reasons the enterprise looks different.
I always thought it looked cool. The warp equivalent of a sonic boom.
@@beaney56 Yeah, I like the term "Superluminal flash" because it echoes sonic boom, but for light.
I actually quite like the Star Trek Beyond warp bubble effect.
Someone goofed - Discovery's saucer doesn't spin down after the spore drive jump!
The whole saucer doesn't spin, it never did. Only the external hull structure spun. Even in previous scenes, you can still see the windows on the outer edge remaining stationary while the registry number was rotating around.
@@k1productions87 I am well aware of that. The section that is supposed to be rotating is not.
4:00 That sounded like a Wraith dart from Stargate Atlantis.
Because the sound is from there.
Whats the name of the track when Burnham jumps from the ships with the escorts?
The ships are their own characters.
As much as I despise DSC, I thought this was a pretty neat scene. Loved the use of the original phasers and the D7's.
Me too. It's a shame that STD couldn't have been more accurate to TOS. I don't mean 1960s effects. But a subtle redesign of TOS Elements that doesn't contradict (Kinda like what Rogue One did with locations from A New Hope). Aside from the small fighters I rather liked the Battle. The STD Enterprise is also pleasant to see (even if it isn't accurate lol).
I look at TOS like it was a stage play. The story was what was important, not the production. Its like expecting the movie version of Les Miserables to look exactly like it did on Broadway. Nor did we expect to see a perfect recreation of Independence Hall while watching "Hamilton"
There are things that had to be changed/updated for the sheer sake of plausibility. Sure, looking much like TOS would please life-long fans,... but ONLY them. It would look silly to newer audiences and potentially turn them off the show,... and that would be a far greater number lost than any who would have stayed because of faithful imagery.
And... it is unfair to compare TOS to A New Hope. The two were over a decade apart, AND A New Hope was a major motion picture with a budget to match. TOS was an unappreciated side project that NBC couldn't wait to get rid of, and they treated its production accordingly.
@@k1productions87 instead of pleasing the millions of fans. It pleases only a small new audience. Not a very good trade. Nothing in Star Trek is plausible. Trying to make it match real world developments is an effort in futility. TOS is the way it was always meant to be. Hence why DS9, TNG, and ENT faithfully recreated it's look when showing the mid 23rd Century. If the look of TOS is no longer Canon.... Doesn't that also make the TOS references in later series not Canon as well? That would imply that those series were also no longer Canon. If Star Trek Discovery is the only show with these specific contradictions. It is the odd one out. Effectively separate from the rest. Canon now means "CBS Exclusive" or made to look "Modern" due to modern tastes changing.
@@richardched6085 Uhm... sorry, the "millions of fans" don't exist anymore, and there is no choice BUT to repopulate the fanbase and build it up anew. In fact, since 2009, the fanbase has grown faster and larger than at any point since the early 90's... and only maybe two years into the 90's at that.
DS9's supposedly faithful recreation was just meant as a tongue in cheek joke for an anniversary special, and was NEVER meant to be taken seriously. on top of that, it unleashed some of the worst continuity fuckups this side of the Klingon Bird of Prey with a Cloaking Device and a Neutral Zone.
Canon is not visual, its historical. Who did what, where, when, how and why. The visuals are secondary. Every single piece of TOS can still be canon even with the visual changes. Meanwhile, even though TNG kept the visual aspects, it fucked over quite a bit of TOS's historical canon.... but that's perfectly fine because we like TNG, is that it? You really need to take a moment and examine what "canon" actually means.
@@k1productions87 at least TNG didn't pretend to be in the TOS era. Most Canon discrepancies pre-2017 can be explained. But STD made catastrophic changes from day 1 that can't be explained. And it only got worse as it went on. Visuals are directly tied to Canon. Those millions of fans do indeed exist. And I am one of those who joined the fandom when I saw the 2009 Star Trek. That film managed to show a more modern view of Star Trek without frakking up what came before by taking place in an Alternate Reality.
Like the BSG Reimagining, STD is a reboot of the Prime Universe. Events, locations, and names are identical. But that's where the similarities end.
If you love STD. That's great. I tried to like it.
If CBS says it's Canon. Then it is. But that also means that the definition of Canon has changed. As CBS is noticably ignoring the source material. STD is the start of their new "generation" of Star Trek Canon that is similar. But not equal to the Canon that came before.
What is the song that us used for the Red Angel ascending briefly after 6:12 and 6:30??? I had a mind worm that does not resolve.
I must cleanse.. th-cam.com/video/DkX64cUvrvk/w-d-xo.html
These visuals are gorgeous! Discovery (or was it Enterprise?) with that big chunk taken out looks like it's been eaten.
Klingon CLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE YASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS GO KDF
The Section 31 Battlecruiser deploying its Swarm mode was beautiful!!!
Nimrod Class Appears ...Seven of Nine " This is perfection " with a tear .
Mozart is also beatiful. But would be really out of place at a Gwar concert.
Wow!! Epic. Makes me want to sign up for CBS streaming service just for the show
Loved the original series phaser sounds as well.
*The Discovery and The Enterprise vs control.
Fixed that for you
Original NCC-1701 TOS ship & Seaquel NCC-1701 Planet of the Titans ship vs control
This whole battle was so damn beautiful.
As a STO player, this would make a DANK TFO.
Does any one know the music track @ 4:08 mins in? Ive searched all over and cant find it.
Now this extremely polished turd...is 100% what I tune into star trek for :)
As much as i not a fan of this show, to actually see a star trek series that bothers to show weapons fire impacting on shields was a nice touch. But those sound effects, ugh!
what about the Enterprise TOS Phaser Sound Retro Effect?
I meant the warp jump effect, and i was never a fan of star trek ToS till the movies.
What about Star Trek Video Games, especially Star Trek Online (STO)?
@@mystyle_jm8997 never finished the introduction quest prior to getting my miranda class
Are the "particles" supposed to be stars? If so, no wonder the turbolift has so much space inside of it!
I’m always gonna be old skool fan
And not a fan of the show but I give respect to the look of the show
Here is a Query Question? Could the Enterprise, be the Forgotten Enterprise of Captain Robert April, Robert April was killed supposedly Killed, the ship is Reffited and Captain Pike Takes Command? This just a Hypothesis. I might be Barking up the Wrong tree on this one.
Daniel Thorp anything is possible with this hack writer/show runner but I digress I believe there was a Star Trek 2009 tie in comic, or was in Into Darkness?, anywho in that comic series they showed the old school Enterprise with Robert April and in it it was either destroyed or decommissioned, I forget which, but after that they built the 2009 Star Trek Enterprise. It didn’t make much sense as they had the same registry numbers but it was kind of an answer.
@@tarn1135 it was countdown to darkness, the tie in for JJ trek into darkness. It was utter bs.
That might make sense if this show gave a damn about the lore and history of Star Trek.
forget the whimpering I LIKE IT i was entertained that's all that matters to me
i have been watching trek since it first aired and will continue to watch anything trek as far as the people that don't like this or that
their opinion is without value to me and i don't care if they don't like mine because i am indifferent to how they feel about it
Well if you are so indifferent why post about it?
@@igorknezevic4601 It's a classic case of "look at how much I'm not caring!"
5/12/2020 still stuck inside. Ok those repair drones were cool never saw that in any trek thing. Like to see more and learn more about them.
Cause this aint trek...
Ok now I want to know, when does that lodged torpedo blow a third of Enterprise's main saucer away? That's a mean battle scar! 😳
Now add the USS vengeance and they gonna be scary as hell
That's the alternate timeline, dreadnought class won't appear.
Dang I must have clicked on a Star Wars video by mistake.
I haven't watches the series, but I am Star Trek fan. been on deployment. What is the Section 31 fleet? They look like Federation ships. Is this like a Rogue fleet?
Spoilers Ahead, you have been warned
Section 31 is a secret division of Starfleet, they are federation ships, they were taken over by an AI called control.
@@seanplayz9626 oh ok. That's crazy, but believable. Thanks for the info. Where can I watch the series?
@@BrandonAgpaoa I believe that it's exclusively on CBS all access
EDIT: Also available on TH-cam apparently
Section 31 is like the Black ops of Starfleet. It's why we never hear about them much.
"Who says there's never a Klingon around when you need one?"
Why does it smoke when shields are hit?
why is there sound in space?
@@narohato1749 There is not. Any sound is just for the audience. Smoke, however, really is ridiculous.
Daniel Häusser phasers are basically super lasers so it evaporates the metal.
@@justanotherasian4395 And when shields are hit?
@@danielhausser8038 shields do not stop all the energy from phasers. Some of it still beats the hull.
Star Trek Shattered Universe anyone?
"Ohhhh myyyyyyy..."
I'm assuming that shield technology advanced to the point that made swarm fighter tactics like this obsolete. They couldn't mount powerful enough weapons on such small fighters to make any dent to stronger shield tech
Nah starfleet managed to make photon torpedoes *smol* in the 23rd century
@@weeklyequation I believe this is why we never really see this tactic much later on. By TNG, I believe it was, we see that targeting sensors can accurately hit a much, much smaller ship with pinpoint accuracy almost all of the time. Couple that with capital ship weapons being more than enough to destroy or disable a fighter sized craft in one or two shots.
It does look super cool, even if the “tactics” make absolutely no sense at all, and you can’t just be surrounded by a cone of fighters getting blown up and not be shotgun blasted to vapor and gore chunks by the shrapnel.
Otherwise epic battle brought down by being far too cluttered with little ships.
Well, I'd take that over starships blowing up left and right in the unnecessarily massive fleet battles in DS9. they can have all the ship sthey want,... but don't treat Akiras and Excelsiors like fightercraft, jeez. At least here, ship shave SHIELDS.
This could have been much clearer and less confusing. Easily.
So spinny. Anyone else dizzy and not really care what just happened?
There's no tension either. Their shields are holding up to thousands of shots. I've hated STD shields from the start. They appear over any surface from seemingly nowhere. Not the way Star Trek battles are supposed to be.
The enterprise very nearly got destroyed in this.
This would be a treat in IMAX.
Enterprise you will always be my favorite ship. You are still as gorgeous as i first saw you.
Where were all those shuttles and worker bees stored on both ships????????????????????????
They obviously borrowed Voyager's shuttle replicator and TARDIS technology from the future
@@ericstockham7009 *31st century Earth vessel.sincr that was bigger on the inside than the outside
Its retofitted escape pods and torpedos if i remember correctly.
and i thougt voy had to many shuttles
You know its hitting the fan when the Kelpians show up...
Who and what is the wing suit flying off
Okay, when the hell did the Enterprise manage to get BB-8 and Wall-E?
I guess it all came with bad writers...
The bigger question is, why didn't they have automated repair devices until now? We do know automation existed.
Answer: they never had the budget to realize it on screen, and at no point in any episode or movie did it apply to the story.
I have no idea what I was watching. There is too much clutter. I couldn't tell the sides apart more often than not.
being in a worker bee was suicide mission.
Section 31 has a fleet of 30 ships with cloaking technology and hundreds if not thousands of battle drones, where was this Fleet during the Klingon war, it would have made a huge difference, even if all they did was take out light targets like Supply convoys, small colonies, isolated ships
ect
Thirty advanced ships are nice but, on the scale of a full-on war between federation and Klingons, it's really not significant. you're talking thousands of starships on both sides there. At least that's what most fan-calculations state and I believe there's a quote in discovery as well, confirming several thousand active Starfleet vessels.
And yes, Star Trek never was very good at conveying that scale.
@MrHoppers002 These ships are not intended to be autonomous. Before Control took over, they were crewed like any other Starfleet vessel. So during the Klingon war, they would not have had that advantage.
Yes, they have advanced weaponry, but nothing which would change the war.
And sure, we know Starfleet does develop computers to run starships without humans, but we also know this does not really offer any great advantage. By the time of TNG, Starfleet does emply fully unmanned sentry ships - we see them in Best of Both Worlds as part of the defensive perimeter of Mars. But they are not used in any greater capacity anywhere else.
@@MrMartechi your response just brings up more questions than answers it was stated in the episode choose your pain season 1 episode 5 the USS Discovery was single-handedly turning the tide of the Klingon War using the spore Drive until it disappeared to the Mirror Universe , one specific line stays that they were hitting their supply convoys, a single ship was causing the Klingon so much Havoc that they went out of their way to capture Captain Lorca to unravel Discovery Secret it was stated by control the federation's AI whose purpose was to Safeguard the Federation against all threats control states that there are 7000 active Starfleet ships that it gives orders to, how is an artificial intelligence that has access to vast amounts of military hardware and far more resourceful than the Klingon Empire not able to crush them, it would be like the Borg vs the Federation at wolf 359 except the Klingons are the Federation
control does nothing when the Federation is being threatened so the heroes can save the day then when the day is saved control becomes a threats to the heroes unleashing it super intelligence and Military might on the heroes the hero's Survive by having plot armor and saved the day again this is something you would see in a cartoon there's just no realism to it
@@damirbabic8168 Of course you can bring up more questions based on my response. Just as I can go on finding explanations for them, which then bring up more questions and so forth and so on. And in the end, we both realize that - oh wonder - the Star Trek Universe isn't actually realistic.
The question simply is at what point you are willing to suspend your disbelief and take the story for what it is. Maybe Discovery doesn't convince you to that, that's fine. Though personally, I'm not sure whether this show really is worse in that regard than any other in Star Trek.
If you want the questions answered:
Discovery's spore drive grants it unlimited mobility, so it can jump to supply lines and enemy bases without any chance of them intercepting or even noticing it. I don't know how you imagine 30 vessels with advanced weaponry but conventional drives could ever match that. Cool, they have big guns, and they might even be able to do some covert ops with their neat disguise. But that will still never allow them to randomly strike at the heart of enemy territory as quickly as discovery did.
And how is Control coordinating seven thousand starfleet ships not able to crush the klingon empire? Maybe it's because the Klingon Empire has twice as many vessels dedicated completely to warfare as compared to the more science-based starfleet vessels. And don't forget the Klingons won only because of their near-perfect cloaking technology. They used cloaked vessels tailing starfleet ships into starbases to blow them up. It's not hard to imagine how a highly sophisticated military would fail to prevent this. More than enough real life examples for that.
Finally: How exactly do you know Control did nothing when the Federation was being threatened? Just because we didn't see it on-screen? Is it not more likely Section 31 was busy during that time doing what intelligence services do - gathering intel, taking out VIPs, sabotaging the enemy?
Or, even simpler: What if Section 31 did indeed harass supply lines and klingon facilities just like you think they should. There's no reason to assume they didn't. It's just that Discovery *on top of that* made enough of a difference to tip the war.
Of course we only see our heroes story, and of course our heroes are the ones miraculously surviving through everything - but that doesn't necessarily mean *only* they had any impact.
@@MrMartechi given the fact that control was able to wipe out all sentient life in the galaxy, it doesn't seem like the Klingon Empire even with a larger Fleet as you state and its cloaking technology was a threat and given the way we see control operates there is no reason it couldn't have been able to hack the entire Klingon Fleet they made control to be a more of a threat than the Borg, control was not only able to take control of ships but organisms, as well as the ability to create Holograms to fool the chain of command like it, did with Spock and Starfleet so control could have easily taken over a Klingon ship its entire crew and then send fake information to the Klingon Empire and then also download the entire information from the Klingon Empire and then been in a position to make a far more powerful and evolve to more perfection