"Hacking" The new CBCS Slabs
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- In a previous video I demonstrated a technique for opening and resealing an older CBCS slab. That was relatively simple. This new slab is very difficult to one and reseal and its still pretty obvious
immaculatecomi...
Man i really wish we as a community leaned more towards CBCS. You can tell they really care to improve.
Pretty sure that's going to start happening.
That may happen at least a little.
Further proof that CBCS is better than CGC. Its beyond me that people don't recognize this
I think they are getting the idea now.
And your demonstrations here are the clincher! @@ImmaculateComics
I like the look of CGC better. If I am spending the money I want something I like.
yeah, so I guess this just forgives all the trimmed comics sitting in CBCS 9.8 unrestored cases? not really. Time will tell though. The new designs are still ugly. Baby blue looks bad, the paper is still perforated and jagged and the font is terrible, mostly just in italics and bold - so thin. I give it a 'D'
@@melw2100 Do you not realize how shallow it is to be more concerned w/how pretty it is vs how secure it is? Yer a metaphor for why slabbing has become so corrupt, and as long as you children keep throwing money at CGC, us adults are gonna hafta keep wiping yer arses. This hobby used to have integrity. Thx for not worrying about that. You have NOT made th world a better place.
Thanks. This is reassuring regarding the security of CBCS. Just reholdered all of my old CBCS slabs. Their new slabs are very nice.
I agree, they are attractive and durable.
Great to know that at least one company actually looked at making their cases more difficult to tamper with when they re-designed their slabs, instead of just doing it for aesthetics. It's nice to see that these slabs really are as solid as they feel.
The CBCS cases are reasonably and responsibly secure. It's the CGC cases, that are ridiculously easy to compromise. I asked a source if they could inject more something very similar to CGC cases for me, and they suggested it was no problem at all. The cost? 58 cents each if I buy them in lots of 1,000 or more. What is the cost of a basic ultrasonic welder? $300. You could literally start your own slabbing business for less than $1,000 USD. Even if you still must buy a heat sealer and a card stock printer for the labels. It turns out the value of what CGC has been adding has been almost entirely their reputation and the grade number they can produce. The grade has always been in question and now their reputation is similarly capricious.
Knowledge and Transparency is the best way to help the community make the best decision for themselves when purchasing expensive paper that's slabbed. Thanks for showing the strengths and weaknesses of the various slabs.
Couldn't agree more!
CBCS cases have 6 alignment pins compared to 4 in the CGC cases. CBCS cases are also sealed on all 4 sides compared to just the 2 sides of CGC cases making CBCS cases more rigid. The increased rigidity and possibly a different plastic formulation usually results in much more fragmentation when they are opened. Alsp, CBCS labels have a small dab of adhesive on the back so they can't simply be pulled out of a partially opened case.
Note that CBCS cases have two narrow slits on the bottom edge. It was explained to me by a rep that these were helpful in prying the case open but also allowed for pressurized air to be used to address any Newton rings.
Thanks so much for this great insight !
This reassures me that I made the right choice in having my ASM #238, #252 & Secret Wars #8 (all 9.8) graded by CBCS.
A worthy way to preserve your 1980s trifecta!
Thanks for this information! I believe it will come to the attention of CGC and hopefully force them to take this issue very seriously. Good for CBCS, I’ve always liked them, although they really need to improve their label design.
Agreed!
CBCS has more protection. Good to know. CGC needs to up their game.
I suspect strongly that CGC is improving its case quality now, but it had to be forced on them. In their hubris, they failed us.
@@ImmaculateComics and there are millions of cases currently out on the open market that will remain flawed and in circulation so any changes going forward though good news, still won’t resolve that problem. I honestly don’t know why anyone would choose cgc over cbcs now, I feel they have them on grading, market value and now security. For me after watching your vids it’s cbcs and/or raw. Thanks for the learning opportunity.
Great work again!! You're doing the hobby a great service. Thanks
Thank you my friend
Great stuff. You’re definitely showing us and the potential thieves how to crack slabs like a professional. You seem to have tools that the normal person does not own or know anything about. They will now that you’re pointing them in the right direction. I don’t know if this is good or bad, it’s probably both.
Great news that you were unsuccessful. If anyone is going to crack these, you’re the guy. I’m hoping they hold up against your future tests.
Thanks I appreciate that. I don't think I will share any more of my results unless I find that there's a difference answer to this question. Right now the answer is "the are secure and tamper-evident". I know for sure I am going to have a lot of fun breaking the rest of them. I'll measure their UV resistance, but I am almost certain it is near zero.
Seems these are quite a bit more resistant to tampering than cgc slabs. I'm a bit saddened they no longer seal the label and book together in the inner well, but I imagine the new slab design makes up for that.
I was a little surprised to but the label is actually glued to the slab on the back
Bro brings a laser to the game. Lol
pew pew!
@@ImmaculateComics haha… another great video btw! You really are doing the community a service with these. Some will say “who’s gonna have that hard wear?”. Given the incentive of thousands, they’ll get the hard wear! I am somewhat reassured though that it’s a bit harder work for a bit less reward with a lot more signs of tampering with the cbcs slabs. This may actually cause me to not move totally to raw. I’ve admired cbcs for their tighter grading in recent years couple this with what is obviously a superior case in terms of security and this is very reassuring. CGC is a non-starter for me for the bigger books. Great vid, my friend.
Good video. Time for the market to move onto CBCS.
I think that may happen at least a little
Was waiting for this vid. Went exactly as I expected. CBCS slabs are so much better than CGC
I think you are exactly right. The difference in the quality of the case itself was remarkable, which I hadn't really considered before.
@@ImmaculateComics like you I do pressing and I've cracked tons of cases. Obviously didn't try to "hack" them just crack them and those latest CBCS slabs are tough as nails. Great vid. Great channel my friend!!!
Outstanding work! I really enjoy your experimentation and learning. This is good data
Thank you very much!
This is EXACTLY what I was hoping you'd do for this video. Great efforts. Thank you for taking the time to do this for the community. I've said since these newer cases came out, CBCS has the best cases in the game and it's not close.
Glad it was helpful! And you are correct these new cases are far superior to their old CBCS cases and of course to the CGC cases as well. I’ve not tested and others but so far the cgc cases fall well short of anything else in terms of security and durability.
Thanks for doing all this Rick, you are the man!
My pleasure!
Interesting directions of attack. Possible counters? Reflective/Special paper or tape around the pins and edges. It would not stop someone from opening the case, but hopefully it would char/smoke and stain the plastic as evidence that tampering happened.
I think if the pins were a different color that may help.
@@ImmaculateComics We will never counter all of the attacks on the slabs. We can just make it not worth it for the less determined. Different colors for the pins, different shapes for the pin heads that will distort/break during stress, etc. Someone should not buy a high priced book without an appraisal. That should be the service that CGC/CBSC offers between buyers and sellers. And detailed graders notes and pictures to help identify a particular issue.
Welcome to the world of pen testing. You should try using a set of spudgers and shims instead of a screwdriver. I was able to open a CGC slab without even using heat by using a pointy, hook style, spudger.
That’s a good tip! My hdpe and nylon tools were sticking to the hot plastic
Interesting watching you trying to crack that slab with the metal prybar. I probably would have used a plastic prybar to minimize the damage.
That's a popular sentiment. I tried nylon and HDPE tools, and they still make subtle marks on the case. They also deform a little and stick to the plastic when it is hot. I find that taping the scratch-prone areas with high-temp Kapton tape before working in it decreases the marks a lot but also makes it difficult to see what I am doing in the video
CGC hopefully matches this. How a better case can stop this replacement madness.
You couldn't blame CGC for providing an overly secure case at this point. Id be very surprised if their prices remained the same.
This cool stuff. These companies, like most larger companies don't have in-house R&D. They either buy the research or the company doing the research. Then strip for parts and patents. Since these cases are sonic welded, hence the merging of material should happen, unless the weld is imperfect. Can Methylene Chloride or Ethylene Dichloride be used to soften the seams?
Thanks for your input! I used MEK, and the seams definitely softened, but it makes a mess, and it is obvious something was done to the plastic. In one test, an ultrasonic weld scribed with a stylus and then frozen in liquid nitrogen, the seam broke exactly along that scribe line perfectly when warmed. But that's an old test I did 2.5 years ago, and I decided to keep that information to myself at that time.
I like the laser attempt
Thanks! I don't really think anyone is using lasers to open cases, but I wanted to learn about the materials.
What type of Plastic material is being used for the CBC, CBCS, PGX, EGC Slabs? I think the EGC Slabs have UV light protection its the only slab that has a UV coating added to the slab?
So you proved once and for all the CGC trick isnt done nearly as effective on CBCS slabs. I had a feeling this would be the case. The NEW NEW cases I would like to see done "JIC". Well done as always. What about trying a chemical to unseal the slabs? Similar to the Zylene but in reverse to undo the slab pins?
if you have a Hamilton micro syringe and access to MEK you'd likely be successful after a few tries
So theres no "EASY" way of doing that?@@ImmaculateComics
@@acesontilt77 no not an "easy way" but I think where there is money involved there may be a way for people to try
I posted this in the CGC thread on this topic. It was deleted along with all your other videos concerning this. CGC does NOT want people to know their flaws. Its honestly upsetting right now because CGC is trying to cover it up as much as possible on the forums.
@@ImmaculateComics
@acesontilt77 their hubris led to a lapse in security and now their secrecy is leading to a lapse in integrity.
Okay, now I knew everyone was going to say CBCS has better cases (I do love their current offering) but if you want to see the REALLY tamperproof case you need to see the Halo cases. i only have one (bought a year ago just to compare cases). It's a brick, I hate it, but maybe it's good for anti tampering.
Thanks for all you do.
My pleasure!
Someone linked to this video from the CGC boards (on page 342 of the scandal discussion) ... I wonder how long that'll last?
oh wow really? I sense that CGC has been a little touchy about material exploring their slabs, especially vs competitors.
Very much so. They temporarily banned me from commenting there after I said their scandal was a windfall for CBCS a couple of weeks ago. They'll be up in arms about your findings here -- well done! @@ImmaculateComics
OK, they've removed the link now because this video highlights the superiority of the CBSC cases... @@ImmaculateComics
@DocReasonable which to my mind only exemplifies that they cannot be trusted
Yes, there's definitely something not quite right about them... both the company and the product. @@ImmaculateComics
Is there some sort of heat sensitive plastic or paper element these companies could use to show signs of tampering?
There are plastics that can turn white when heated but they turn white over time in any case so it may not be a good choice
They have to heat it to seal it.
they can sonically seal the plastic without heat
Could you try a coin case?
Yeah if I ever get a coin case I'll be happy to try it.
Will you be testing the CBCS plastic for UV protection?
Hi Jim, I sure will. Once I get the PGX and other samples I will do them all at once!
That looks like a win for CGC case. Gluing the pins and fusing all four sides should remedy the issue.
I have confidence that the new CGC cases will be much more secure, but their hubris, secrecy, and inattention to security may have already damaged their reputation such that they can never fully return then to their former status.
@@ImmaculateComics I also think they should laser the serial # onto the edge of the inner sleeve so it matches the label.
I kind of wonder if they used that plastic as a security measure, or if they just cheaped out which is why it melted easier.
I think it's serendipity, and I bet they are happy about it!
😂❤awesome job Rick
Thank you!
You have a LASER gun??
I have a lot of fun stuff !
@5:55 - Wow! That's barely detectable! (Ha!)
it looks like the hulk himself tore through it. You laugh but just wait, a few people will comment that that can see it's been tampered with and that my video is junk. lol
🔥💙🔥
thanks!