So,as a supp main, instead of getting sth actually new/innovative, i basically have to spend an ungodly amount of gold in t4 to reach the same state my t3 supp is in rn with what, slightly stronger buffs? Got it.
At this point everyone would be done a favor if supports were optional and raids simply rebalanced for dps only clears with supports making it just faster.
When I think of support design I'm reminded of a Veratasium video titled "The 4 things it takes to be an expert." Gamers like to progress towards and be (or think they are) an expert at what they play for a long time, so it felt relevant. 1. Repeated Attempts with Feedback 2. Valid Environment 3. Timely Feedback 4. Don't Get Too Comfortable We could say that Supporter/Noble/Radiant barely qualifies for the first point, especially compared to the details you can view on a meter (if you actually are using it for self improvement). The game utterly fails at point 3, though. There's basically no feedback about misaligning your damage buff with a dps bursting or if you mindlessly send it right before the boss DRs. Similarly, you don't get to know when your shields/DR prevented a ton of damage and when they were just cosmetic changes to somebody's health bar UI for a few seconds. Because aside from damage buffing the other major thing supports also provide is chip damage mitigation (whether from shields or healing). Although a case could be made for healing vs overhealing as well, that seems less useful due to how aoe healing and Paladin in general functions. I think a good first step would giving the support a running damage tally of the extra damage they provide while their Z is active, with a final value sticking for a second or two. I'd probably roll AP and brand damage into that tally just to trim down on clutter while still providing feedback on their value. Something similar could be done for shielding and DR - show a prevented damage number more prominently (aka, pat the player on the back and say good job, but indirectly) if the number is higher than most other DR values for that encounter. Celebrate the high notes and keep the rest of the (spammed) rotation as less intrusive. The support player needs feedback immediately about their actions. Not 5, 10, or even 15+ minutes later on a vague MVP screen. DPS get to see it via damage numbers (or their absence, if they miss). Something should be done about damage to shields just showing "absorb" as well, because it's basically the same thing that supports currently experience. Nobody gets excited about Thaemine horse check because they can't see their damage numbers when everybody is just going full offense and pumping everything into the boss. What could feel hype, for some, is instead one of the least interesting parts of the fight.
According to most KR vets, Aegir Hard is like Theamine g4 level - tight dps check with shit tons of normal pattern, while mechanic is straightforward and easy. Unless you're in static, and really like your class Ark Passive, no point pushing to 1680 because support shortage in NA will be much worse than KR.
At least on EU, I don't expect Aegir normal to have a significant support shortage. Echidna/Thaemine HM currently don't really have one. Aegir HM will likely have a shortage, but the only people playing that on release will be 1700 whales anyway.
Really hope that Brel 2,0 will have a Ad hone system, since we are gonna be already at +18... my Conspiracy theory is T4 was done to remove support from the game, since Support are GETTING HEAVY NERF and DPS builds are GIGACHAD OP now(compare to before). i think SG will be fading out support overtime make them weaker and weaker to the point that wont matter if you are support or dps on your bard/paladin/ayaya
Just fix support in a way so i actually feel like a do more than shield a bit and dmg buff. Its just expecially on bard a skill spam. Rn i might aswell strap my full lvl10 gem set from my sup and get a dps fully geared cuz it just does not do a different in the end. What i also noticed, i basicly get a free enter in all raids, fe i could join x10 Thaemine without even Dreamer title if i wanted.
In ff14 its never lack of support cause in normal mode its ez so ppl can play what they want. Only dps take the longest time to match making. For tank and support are super fast to find party. And yes the system 1 char multi class. Ppl can just change to any class in their main char
If Korea holds to their solo for 4th raid (which is Theamine right now for them) it would be about 1 year after release, BUT Korea still doesn’t have solo Theamine so who knows.
@Cauttyh eventually Smilegate will have to do something, either - 1) give away free support chars (by making honing supports trivial) 2) class change/gear transfer service 2) completely re-design support (this will involve giving the finger to those who enjoy current support at the cost of saving the game)
Aegir despite the dps check look like a really cool/funny/enjoyable raid to prog, play and replay (compared to echidna) hyped for it for the rest yeah... obvi i agree, it is what it is
So,as a supp main, instead of getting sth actually new/innovative, i basically have to spend an ungodly amount of gold in t4 to reach the same state my t3 supp is in rn with what, slightly stronger buffs? Got it.
At this point everyone would be done a favor if supports were optional and raids simply rebalanced for dps only clears with supports making it just faster.
And ppl wonder why there's a supp shortage lol smilegate also only releasing dps classes amd not doing anything
Essentially, T3 5x3 is enough for supports for now. I bet at full ArkPassive we will see supports outperform T3.
@GFClocked so you want raids to do no damage?
When I think of support design I'm reminded of a Veratasium video titled "The 4 things it takes to be an expert." Gamers like to progress towards and be (or think they are) an expert at what they play for a long time, so it felt relevant.
1. Repeated Attempts with Feedback
2. Valid Environment
3. Timely Feedback
4. Don't Get Too Comfortable
We could say that Supporter/Noble/Radiant barely qualifies for the first point, especially compared to the details you can view on a meter (if you actually are using it for self improvement). The game utterly fails at point 3, though. There's basically no feedback about misaligning your damage buff with a dps bursting or if you mindlessly send it right before the boss DRs. Similarly, you don't get to know when your shields/DR prevented a ton of damage and when they were just cosmetic changes to somebody's health bar UI for a few seconds. Because aside from damage buffing the other major thing supports also provide is chip damage mitigation (whether from shields or healing). Although a case could be made for healing vs overhealing as well, that seems less useful due to how aoe healing and Paladin in general functions.
I think a good first step would giving the support a running damage tally of the extra damage they provide while their Z is active, with a final value sticking for a second or two. I'd probably roll AP and brand damage into that tally just to trim down on clutter while still providing feedback on their value. Something similar could be done for shielding and DR - show a prevented damage number more prominently (aka, pat the player on the back and say good job, but indirectly) if the number is higher than most other DR values for that encounter. Celebrate the high notes and keep the rest of the (spammed) rotation as less intrusive.
The support player needs feedback immediately about their actions. Not 5, 10, or even 15+ minutes later on a vague MVP screen. DPS get to see it via damage numbers (or their absence, if they miss). Something should be done about damage to shields just showing "absorb" as well, because it's basically the same thing that supports currently experience. Nobody gets excited about Thaemine horse check because they can't see their damage numbers when everybody is just going full offense and pumping everything into the boss. What could feel hype, for some, is instead one of the least interesting parts of the fight.
According to most KR vets, Aegir Hard is like Theamine g4 level - tight dps check with shit tons of normal pattern, while mechanic is straightforward and easy.
Unless you're in static, and really like your class Ark Passive, no point pushing to 1680 because support shortage in NA will be much worse than KR.
Good thing a lot of supports like their Ark Passive and will prioritize pushing for the new, exciting toys, right?
.... right?
-Padme face
As a support main i don't even wanna push to 1680 cos the fucking ark passive for us is dogshit
" Respectfully alot of u guys are rmting " had me on the floor brooo
It's funny because KR players also RMT xdd
imagin not getting honing nerf to 1620 at this point
They are giving 1620 event. So that means no buff yet but soon.
@@jlee9360 event on one character make 1620 easier in general for ppl who have 2_3 characters less than 1620
At least on EU, I don't expect Aegir normal to have a significant support shortage. Echidna/Thaemine HM currently don't really have one. Aegir HM will likely have a shortage, but the only people playing that on release will be 1700 whales anyway.
2:59 o yeah so like gunslinger focus shot you can't parry becoz my skill motion can't be cancel?
Buff gunslinger
Really hope that Brel 2,0 will have a Ad hone system, since we are gonna be already at +18...
my Conspiracy theory is T4 was done to remove support from the game, since Support are GETTING HEAVY NERF and DPS builds are GIGACHAD OP now(compare to before). i think SG will be fading out support overtime make them weaker and weaker to the point that wont matter if you are support or dps on your bard/paladin/ayaya
nice video Cauttyh n.n
Just fix support in a way so i actually feel like a do more than shield a bit and dmg buff. Its just expecially on bard a skill spam. Rn i might aswell strap my full lvl10 gem set from my sup and get a dps fully geared cuz it just does not do a different in the end.
What i also noticed, i basicly get a free enter in all raids, fe i could join x10 Thaemine without even Dreamer title if i wanted.
counterpoint: you get very easy into any group
@@funky72_ well that would not be the case, if supports were actually valued and would feel good. Since then more people would play them.
In ff14 its never lack of support cause in normal mode its ez so ppl can play what they want. Only dps take the longest time to match making. For tank and support are super fast to find party. And yes the system 1 char multi class. Ppl can just change to any class in their main char
before watching the vid: yes
TIER 4 so good
It saved the game oh yeah
Eks Dee
If Korea holds to their solo for 4th raid (which is Theamine right now for them) it would be about 1 year after release, BUT Korea still doesn’t have solo Theamine so who knows.
So solo aegir when?
in 100 years
😛
@Cauttyh eventually Smilegate will have to do something, either -
1) give away free support chars (by making honing supports trivial)
2) class change/gear transfer service
2) completely re-design support (this will involve giving the finger to those who enjoy current support at the cost of saving the game)
Aegir despite the dps check look like a really cool/funny/enjoyable raid to prog, play and replay (compared to echidna)
hyped for it
for the rest yeah... obvi i agree, it is what it is