If you spend some time restoring old bikes, Shimano's key to success will be obvious. Their manufacturing tolerances were amazing from the mid-1980's onward. By 1983, engineers in Italy, Austria, and Japan could all diagram magical indexed shifting systems with ever more sprockets, but their employers had to be able to build them to ever more precise tolerances. Shimano could and did. So whether Capagnolo, Sachs, Suntour, or Shimano actually designed one innovation or another doesn't really matter. Manufacturing precision made those innovations work reliably. And for the icing on the cake, Shimano gave a lot of consideration to the little things - an assemply that required two awkwardly held and oddly sized wrenches on a Campagnolo part needed just intuitive and accessible hex bolt on its Shimano counterpart. That elegance is why Japan took over the manufacturing world for a multi-decade run.
nonsense. You can't rebuild a Shimano shifter, but you can rebuild Campagnolo shifters. That's how considerate Shimano is. And nothing beats shifting tolerances on any Campagnolo groupset. Before Shimano did that right, Campagnolo was always one cog and some years ahead. They were only catching up after 10-speed. That's not to say Shimano is bad or it doesn't work well, but don't pretend like they were significantly above their competitors in any decade, even know with their disc groupsets they were having an inferior disc design compared to Campagnolo. The only thing they are truly better at, is market share. But as we all know, everyone going to McDonalds doesn't make it the best restaurant in town.
I love my shimano bicycle, it makes me feel like I’m gliding like I’m hovering above the ground, I didn’t need to pedal much like for those cheaper brands. And mines didn’t even cost a lot(was a gift) it’s like only 300-500$USD I forgot where really. I like riding bikes and I like that bike, plan to get another one and for my old self, I’m going to try to ride a motorcycle.
Love how you comment on cycling issues in a clear objective way. I have had lots of Shimano but best I've had is Campy Record. If I had a dream build I know I'd go Campagnolo. Different gravy for me
Shimano, Campagnolo, and SRAM have all contributed to moving the groupset forward in quality and capability. It's something else that has made Shimano king. Data is hard to come by, for obvious reasons, but it looks to me like Shimano sells way more of its lower-level groupsets, mostly in the OEM market, than it does its higher tiers. It dominates that segment. The profitability of dominating at the entry level is funding Shimano's ability to innovate. In contrast, Campagnolo doesn't try compete at the entry or even middle level; even its lowest-tier current groupset, Centaur, probably lies between Tiagra and mechanical 105. This disparity seems to have existed between Shimano's entry-level and Campag's entry level for a long time, which mostly explains why Shimano has become the dominant player. To summarize: Shimano's road bike groupset dominance stems from the quality and pervasiveness of its lower-tier components, not from the supposed superiority of its upper-tier.
How or why do you think shimano dominated the entry and mid level segment like 105? Have you looked at 99spokes? 80% of all bikes sold at a LBS are equipped with shimano. They simply produced better and more reliable groupsets at the entry level
Worked with Shimano 15 years ago and had a long meeting with one of the brothers on their industrial strengths and strategy. Super focused company from materials to design and new tech as well as market opportunities. Also very clear; they try a lot of innovative approaches - but only want to release stuff that actually works (not that they get it 100% right every time, but they really never want to let customers down). Already back then they had their eyes firmly on developments in China.
The problem I have with Campagnolo is the limited compatibility between parts and groupsets. Chainring bcd, cassette body, pulley wheels, rimbrake pads etc are all just a little different. So for every maintenance job you need a specific campagnolo tool and finding the exact replacement part can be really hard. For convenience I’m finally slowly moving towards Shimano.
BCD has been solved since 7-8 years with the 4-bolt standard. Cassette body is vastly superior, but admitted, the cassettes are horribly expensive. For pulley wheels you have 3rd parties making them (cheaper), brake pads are very nice and not overly expensive.
What is usually overlooked when road cyclists discuss their opinions about Campagnolo vs. Shimano is the fact that Shimano is the only full-range supplier. They produce componens for almost every type of bike whilst Campagnolo is only available for drop bar bikes. This means that almost all bike manufacturers have to sign a supply contract with Shimano anyway if they want to equip their mountain bikes, cargo bikes, city bikes, etc. in addition to their road bikes. This means that Shimano can probably always offer cheaper than Campagnolo simply because of the number of units supplied. I'm pretty sure that's the main reason for Shimano's market dominance (even on road bikes) and has a much greater influence than various technical details.
You could have replaced the word Shimano with Honda in this story. It's neat how aspects of a country's culture appear in their products. Cars, watches, airplanes. European stuff is a work of art, requires a bit more care to operate, is expensive to buy and maintain from greater complexity. American stuff works eell for its purpose and is relatively cheap to fix. Japanese stuff is designed to work in any conditions, and durable so it doesn't need to be repaired as often.
Agreed. I've owned several BMWs while my wife is. Lexus lover. Her cars only need the most basic of upkeep and maintenance while mine. Let's just say , I ended up learning how to replace valve covers, driveshafts, water coolers , thermostats and am pretty damn good and finding leaks. I love how they drive though.
In addition, I moved from the big S to SRAM when I got etap (1st gen.) and think the thought that's gone into it is pretty great, American parts are practical and usually user-serviceable..
@@apair4002 shame on you, April. You question me, as if I don't know what I'm talking about. Shimano sells a lot of stuff!! Some of it doesn't last too long.
I have one of the “bloopers” - XTR Dual Control levers (exactly the shown ones) - on my 26er and it’s very hard to criticize them! This bike serves mainly as a commuter and honestly this is the best shifting system for cycling through town. I can easily downshift whilst stopping at a traffic light with barely any hand movement, yet I can still have flat bars, which are in my opinion better for urban riding than drop bats. I also used this bike a bit for true mountain biking in the period after selling one team sponsored bike and waiting for another and I must say it doesn’t perform bad in this behaviour either. Now that I have access to the latest XTR 1x12, I wouldn’t choose it for modern day XC race, but it wouldn’t be no problem doing some not incredibly technical XCM race and I could totally imagine doing any kind of race with this groupset from its era.
I hope campagnolo will no go shimano way - electronic only. I want premium mechanical groupset. I am big fan of Shimano but new 105 really disappointed me
Shimano simply works form top end to budget components. My GF has an MTB that came with Sram NX shifting. I was unable to adjust the indexing for all 12 gears. My LBS couldn't adjust it either. I had to replace shifter and derailleur with GX.
Was the hanger by any chance bent? No indexing can fix faulty shifting when that part is misaligned. I've indexed SRAM NX a handful of times, never failed to get it right.
@@yonglingng5640 The bike was brand new. There were always a couple of cogs where it was skipping. I have GX own my own MTB, works perfect. Same on my GF's bike after the upgrade.
@@hansschotterradler3772 Even new bikes don't always come with perfectly aligned hangers. Of all new bikes I've unboxed, almost all of them have slightly misaligned hangers. Was the cassette checked as well?
@@yonglingng5640 Can confirm, I have an SX Eagle set, it was almost impossible to set, even with a perfect hanger, in the bikeshop they had to align it multiple times, but finally they got it. (Maybe they bended the whole derailleur a bit out, to get it work, or something like that. It's a feature of these, that their pulleys are inwards...)
I am left wondering if Shimano has started to become Campagnolo of the past letting SRAM innovate and push the boundaries that Shimano once did. Certainly, competition is good I doubt we would have ever seen 105 Di2 if it weren't for SRAM Rival AXS. Soon add APEX AXS to drive the price down further. All great for the consumer.
Shimano got the correct strategy by offering the full price range from entry right up to pro level. It means you start using Shimano on your first cheaper road bike and so get used to that system and when you upgrade to a better bike, you’re more likely to stay with a gear shifting mech that you know. Campagnolo concentrate on the higher end and so miss out on a big chunk of the market
I currently run SRAM Red 22 eTap and just bought Campagnolo Super Record 12 speed mechanical (rim brakes). I have Shimano 105 11 speed on my other bikes. Shimano has priced me out of their current range.
1981 Shimano’s aero dynamic group set killed off the French bike component manufacturers. French had gears by simplex, brakes by Mafac, etc each component under different management, although they did try. Only campagnolo could step up to shimano by producing a good aerodynamic response.
As someone who has worked in the cycling industry for 45 years, I can say with 100% confidence that the Shimano AX group had no hand in killing off the French component makers. It was Suntour, Dia Compe, Sugino, and SR who did that in the 70’s. Shimano was starting to make a dent, and made good (and arguably better) derailleurs than Suntour, but did not really take off until they introduced Dura Ace with SIS in 1984. After that Campagnolo and Suntour were well behind, with Suntour succumbing to the falling yen. Shimano also had the resources at that point to dominate the growing mountain bike market, which Campagnolo tried in the beginning but soon abandoned.
@@dylangrantz8124 I have a full Dura Ace AX bike. It can be seen on the GCN app; search for Araya 821. I never had an issue with the pedals, but I do agree the brakes were not very powerful. But at least…unlike the Campagnolo Deltas…they were small, lightweight, and easy to service.
The biggest change has been the upper end market shift to complete bike sales. In the past high bike buyers would choose a frame. Then buy the group choice they wanted. It is not good for one dominant company in any market. It doesn’t play out well in the long run.
It's interesting, in any long sportive in UK nearly 50% group sets seen are Ultegra, in my LBS >50% of bikes in for service are Ultegra - no doubt they have got the market. I have an old bike with 2010 super record, but boy how much to replace a chain or cassette - its eye watering. All my other bikes are ...er... Ultegra!
Since Shimano's compatibility is unbeatable, I think the idea of groupset is limiting. I'd rather Shimano distinguish the class using part number. But they can keep the HG, HGX, HGX+, & microspline to guide the compatibility information.
Sounds like Shimano is the Nintendo of cycling to me :).Fantastic stuff, loved from leisure cyclist to pro; but a bully on the market and making some weird decisions now and again ( mech. shifting )
Still like dura ace 9100 mercanical works great and cheaper feel I'm being frosed to now change to electric gearing a friend of mine has gone back to mercancal shifting as the di2 wasn't up to all the hipe
DOWNTUBE SHIFTERS 🙌 I’m happy with your words that “it is an art form” hence why I primarily ride downtube shifters both in index and friction mode because that art form amplifies riding BEYOND comprehension it’s like a dance that not just anyone can do right away. Takes years to master. Also I’m NOT from that era it was way before my time but I just know this eloquent detail is forgotten and love keeping it alive. Plus the quality of parts from this era always impresses me when I get a hold of vintage components.
I am an older rider who rode with down tube friction shift levers back in the day. I’m not nostalgic for them, but they make sense on a vintage bicycle. I have a Nuovo Record groupset on a Crescent Världsmästarcykeln I bought in 1972.
I have a nuovo groupset too on my dads Colnago master. And while i do recognise that that is what they had back then, objectively when I ride it, it’s a piece of shit compared to my current di2 12spd shimano products. In short, campag stuff are well made for sure,they’re also very well made to perform reliably like crap in each and every shift.
Shimano has been innovative. Despite accusations of being “overpriced” Shimano components are extremely durable and work flawlessly. I am still riding bikes equipped with Shimano 600 and Dura Ace 7700, and they’re great. By the way, there were claims that the DA 7700 groupset was overpriced when I bought it in 1998. It wasn’t.
I want Shimano to do a 1 X 12 electronic mullet like Sram have.. As it is now its "only' a 1 X 11 mechanical. Campy could be amazing with their Ekar 1 X 13 but it's mechanical..
No mention of Suntour? How Shimano copied their slanted parallelogram design? As did Campy later on. The real David and Goliath battle was Suntour v Shimano, unfortunately Shimano were too big, there can be only one etc etc. I remember in the mid 80s most bikes outside of top racing bikes (Campy) were Suntour equipped, all the early mountain bikes etc before Shimano became dominant.
@ Andrew Hayes; Exactly 💯. It's a shame that Shimano has discontinued mechanical groupsets for Dura Ace and Ultegra. 105 is available now as a 12 spd mechanical groupset. But that won't be around very long. Are ordinary riders ready to shell out money for Di2. Riders demand a choice between mechanical and electronic. IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.
Having handled parts from The Big 3 countless times, it's safe to say, Shimano gave me the most confidence in working with groupsets, mainly also because I'm familiar with them. Not only do they possess good mechanical design (I like the adoption of Shadow RD and repositioned STI lever clamp band bolts), their online resources (Shimano Technical Documents) are easy to access as well (I knew about this and started using them long before I worked as a shop mechanic). Simply put, their components just work. Here are some reasons why I don't prefer the other two: SRAM General: Not sticking with one standard long-term (mainly the crankset spindle), DOT fluid for hydraulic brakes Mechanical: Requires more force to actuate shifts (very tactile shift paddle feedback), DoubleTap shift logic has the steepest learning curve (not so friendly for beginners in my opinion) Electronic: Heavy and bulky derailleurs (eTap AXS), slightly slower shifting than even third-generation Di2 Campagnolo General: Chains still use a pin (that also needs be peened, something almost all chain breakers can't do), crankset spindle-mounted bottom bracket bearings (that also run different 6805 bearings that are 1 mm thinner: 25x37x6 mm), horrible ErgoPower lever clamp band bolt placement (requires long-reach bits) Mechanical: Proprietary shift and brake housings (4.1 and 4.9 mm instead of 4 and 5 mm like everybody else) Electronic: Wires factory-attached to every component (even messier than first to third-generation Shimano Di2, easier to screw up too), doesn't shift as fast as Shimano Di2
@@5891jonathan Even riding with Campagnolo doesn't feel as good too, the ergonomics just don't suit me all that well. In terms of sprint-shifting, among all mechanical groupsets, SRAM DoubleTap did it best. I only like riding with whatever I like working on, this is something most riders will never say because most don't dirty their hands and fingers from working on their bikes.
Bikes are cheap. You could get a bike from decathlon for under 300$ But, an enthusiast level bike? No. Those were never meant to be “cheap”. It’s an enthusiast hobby, and hence with any hobby, it’s not meant to be priced at a point where every Tom, dick or harry can just roll up on one. Thinking that enthusiast stuff should be priced for the masses is simply entitled hypocrisy masquerading as outrage.
Once again, you've failed to hold shimanos to account by creating another fluff peice for shimano. There was no mention of the terrible cable routing in 7900 or the cranks that fell apart due to corrosion and instead talked about subjective failures?
How would Shimano become a dominant force with 'garbage'? My 10 years old Deore rear derailleur still works flawlessly with the same-aged trigger shifters. How can pros win with garbage? Campagnolo sponsors one (!) pro team for 2023, "UAE Team Emirates are now a Shimano-sponsored team and will no longer use Campagnolo, as of 2023."
I never had a Shimano bike, it has always been Campagnolo and SRAM reason is that I never liked the way the shifters worked, to shift gears you had to move all of the brake leaver which I never got used to. Nevertheless the quality is very good and works great, for those that like SHIMANO 😊
shimano lost all of its credibility with the huge crankset scandal. If I buy a groupset I want it to last forever, just like campy does. Shimano gained his superiority not because of quality and reliability but by dominating the market with cheap groupset. I'll never put that crap on my bike, always used campag and always will... some chance to buy a SRAM, but never shimano. I bought a gravel recently, first thing I've done is changing the GRX600 with an ekar.
Isn’t it simply because they made shifters that shifted better, brakes that brakes better, and wheels that wheeled better? Let’s be real. Campag’s only really appeal is this misplaced confidence in “Italian” workmanship.
The mechanical design in their ErgoPower levers is a joke. You can't easily torque them down on the handlebars as you need a long-reach bit for that and not everybody has such a bit. With Shimano STI, especially the newer ones, just a regular bit socket will do.
Japanese craftmanship, they will test and improve the product until its up to their standard, very high standard. They might be a little bit slow in pushing out new products but once they did, it will be something outstanding.
Is it me or was I expecting to see more out of this video than just stock footage from Shimano’s Dura Ace history video. Sorry but I feel like this could have been made differently. Have some more content about the flops. More on Hollowtech, Hollow glide, something… it just feels like a dub over shimano video.
two of my bikes have sram and two Shimano, the Shimano is so much more refined, durable and smooth. They remind me of Toyota vehicles, no real bling but superb functionality and durability
@@davidarthur Great work mate, please don't take this personally but it just sounds like all the "Breakaway" TH-cam journalists are covering the same stories/companies be it clothing, bikes or componants yet maybe that's just what it takes to get paid? P.s. Would love to see some stuff about companies like Rotor or Easton maybe? Anyways I watch most of your videos and I wouldn't watch if I didn't like ;)
@@davidarthur I've only used Q-rings from Rotor which I love but would like to know more about other products from them and I own 2x sets of the old M1-hub wheels from Easton (mountain & road) which are about 8 or 10 years old now and they still perform better than most new wheels so I would love to know what their new stuff is like both road and gravel, but no one is covering.
@@5891jonathan I am referring to downtube shifters and STI shifters. Just the shorter cable will save you kilo or two. Indexing is only needed if the rider lacks coordination in his or her digits.
100g less weight won't help you when one bad shift leaves you 100m behind on a hill... (and even pro's made bad shifts back then). Also, my new Ultegra Di12sp can shift under ridiculous power.
The next 100 years will be where you fully plug into your bike and become one with it in some kind metaverse style symbiosis via a Musk style neuro link through your brain. Transhumanism...
Shimano copied all the tech off Signori Campagnolo I don't see a Grand Tour in Japan like the Historic Giro.. Furthermore ...Shimano is for fishing not cycling..now go get yourself a pole ..
If you spend some time restoring old bikes, Shimano's key to success will be obvious. Their manufacturing tolerances were amazing from the mid-1980's onward. By 1983, engineers in Italy, Austria, and Japan could all diagram magical indexed shifting systems with ever more sprockets, but their employers had to be able to build them to ever more precise tolerances. Shimano could and did. So whether Capagnolo, Sachs, Suntour, or Shimano actually designed one innovation or another doesn't really matter. Manufacturing precision made those innovations work reliably. And for the icing on the cake, Shimano gave a lot of consideration to the little things - an assemply that required two awkwardly held and oddly sized wrenches on a Campagnolo part needed just intuitive and accessible hex bolt on its Shimano counterpart. That elegance is why Japan took over the manufacturing world for a multi-decade run.
nonsense. You can't rebuild a Shimano shifter, but you can rebuild Campagnolo shifters. That's how considerate Shimano is.
And nothing beats shifting tolerances on any Campagnolo groupset. Before Shimano did that right, Campagnolo was always one cog and some years ahead. They were only catching up after 10-speed.
That's not to say Shimano is bad or it doesn't work well, but don't pretend like they were significantly above their competitors in any decade, even know with their disc groupsets they were having an inferior disc design compared to Campagnolo. The only thing they are truly better at, is market share. But as we all know, everyone going to McDonalds doesn't make it the best restaurant in town.
I love my shimano bicycle, it makes me feel like I’m gliding like I’m hovering above the ground, I didn’t need to pedal much like for those cheaper brands. And mines didn’t even cost a lot(was a gift) it’s like only 300-500$USD I forgot where really. I like riding bikes and I like that bike, plan to get another one and for my old self, I’m going to try to ride a motorcycle.
Love how you comment on cycling issues in a clear objective way. I have had lots of Shimano but best I've had is Campy Record. If I had a dream build I know I'd go Campagnolo. Different gravy for me
Loved this docu-style video. Hope you make more!
Thank you! Will do!
Shimano, Campagnolo, and SRAM have all contributed to moving the groupset forward in quality and capability. It's something else that has made Shimano king. Data is hard to come by, for obvious reasons, but it looks to me like Shimano sells way more of its lower-level groupsets, mostly in the OEM market, than it does its higher tiers. It dominates that segment. The profitability of dominating at the entry level is funding Shimano's ability to innovate. In contrast, Campagnolo doesn't try compete at the entry or even middle level; even its lowest-tier current groupset, Centaur, probably lies between Tiagra and mechanical 105. This disparity seems to have existed between Shimano's entry-level and Campag's entry level for a long time, which mostly explains why Shimano has become the dominant player. To summarize: Shimano's road bike groupset dominance stems from the quality and pervasiveness of its lower-tier components, not from the supposed superiority of its upper-tier.
How or why do you think shimano dominated the entry and mid level segment like 105? Have you looked at 99spokes? 80% of all bikes sold at a LBS are equipped with shimano. They simply produced better and more reliable groupsets at the entry level
Worked with Shimano 15 years ago and had a long meeting with one of the brothers on their industrial strengths and strategy. Super focused company from materials to design and new tech as well as market opportunities. Also very clear; they try a lot of innovative approaches - but only want to release stuff that actually works (not that they get it 100% right every time, but they really never want to let customers down). Already back then they had their eyes firmly on developments in China.
The problem I have with Campagnolo is the limited compatibility between parts and groupsets. Chainring bcd, cassette body, pulley wheels, rimbrake pads etc are all just a little different. So for every maintenance job you need a specific campagnolo tool and finding the exact replacement part can be really hard. For convenience I’m finally slowly moving towards Shimano.
BCD has been solved since 7-8 years with the 4-bolt standard. Cassette body is vastly superior, but admitted, the cassettes are horribly expensive. For pulley wheels you have 3rd parties making them (cheaper), brake pads are very nice and not overly expensive.
Great video! Would be cool to see a similar video for Sram and campagnolo!
Coming soon!
@@davidarthur Great as that was in my brain as well. Thanks for a fab video. I’m really glad I discovered your channel.
Awesome stuff David..love this channel
Much appreciated!
Great overview David enjoyed this 👍🤩🏅🚴
Thanks 👍
What is usually overlooked when road cyclists discuss their opinions about Campagnolo vs. Shimano is the fact that Shimano is the only full-range supplier. They produce componens for almost every type of bike whilst Campagnolo is only available for drop bar bikes. This means that almost all bike manufacturers have to sign a supply contract with Shimano anyway if they want to equip their mountain bikes, cargo bikes, city bikes, etc. in addition to their road bikes. This means that Shimano can probably always offer cheaper than Campagnolo simply because of the number of units supplied. I'm pretty sure that's the main reason for Shimano's market dominance (even on road bikes) and has a much greater influence than various technical details.
You could have replaced the word Shimano with Honda in this story.
It's neat how aspects of a country's culture appear in their products. Cars, watches, airplanes.
European stuff is a work of art, requires a bit more care to operate, is expensive to buy and maintain from greater complexity. American stuff works eell for its purpose and is relatively cheap to fix. Japanese stuff is designed to work in any conditions, and durable so it doesn't need to be repaired as often.
Honda cars have a name for reliability over many for continuance of operation..
Agreed. I've owned several BMWs while my wife is. Lexus lover. Her cars only need the most basic of upkeep and maintenance while mine. Let's just say , I ended up learning how to replace valve covers, driveshafts, water coolers , thermostats and am pretty damn good and finding leaks. I love how they drive though.
In addition, I moved from the big S to SRAM when I got etap (1st gen.) and think the thought that's gone into it is pretty great, American parts are practical and usually user-serviceable..
When do you think shimano will master building crank arms that don't fall apart due to corrosion?
Have you ever heard about new Shimano 12s crankset failed? If yes, please share the info.
@@apair4002 Yes my friend’s new ultegra 12s crankarm failed on the bolt holes sheared completely and the non drives side arm starts free spinning
Basically the axle threads on the non drive side sheared
@@apair4002 shame on you, April. You question me, as if I don't know what I'm talking about.
Shimano sells a lot of stuff!! Some of it doesn't last too long.
Quite a story and beautifully told. Thank you.
Still a campagnolo die hard on my gravel bike ! Shimano on the mtb though 👍
I have one of the “bloopers” - XTR Dual Control levers (exactly the shown ones) - on my 26er and it’s very hard to criticize them! This bike serves mainly as a commuter and honestly this is the best shifting system for cycling through town. I can easily downshift whilst stopping at a traffic light with barely any hand movement, yet I can still have flat bars, which are in my opinion better for urban riding than drop bats. I also used this bike a bit for true mountain biking in the period after selling one team sponsored bike and waiting for another and I must say it doesn’t perform bad in this behaviour either. Now that I have access to the latest XTR 1x12, I wouldn’t choose it for modern day XC race, but it wouldn’t be no problem doing some not incredibly technical XCM race and I could totally imagine doing any kind of race with this groupset from its era.
I had them on my bike for the Cape Epic. Work perfectly.
I hope campagnolo will no go shimano way - electronic only. I want premium mechanical groupset. I am big fan of Shimano but new 105 really disappointed me
Every suggestion is that 12 speed mechanical 105 is coming out this year. It's just too big a market for them to miss out on
Shimano simply works form top end to budget components. My GF has an MTB that came with Sram NX shifting. I was unable to adjust the indexing for all 12 gears. My LBS couldn't adjust it either. I had to replace shifter and derailleur with GX.
Was the hanger by any chance bent? No indexing can fix faulty shifting when that part is misaligned. I've indexed SRAM NX a handful of times, never failed to get it right.
@@yonglingng5640 The bike was brand new. There were always a couple of cogs where it was skipping.
I have GX own my own MTB, works perfect. Same on my GF's bike after the upgrade.
@@hansschotterradler3772 Even new bikes don't always come with perfectly aligned hangers. Of all new bikes I've unboxed, almost all of them have slightly misaligned hangers.
Was the cassette checked as well?
@@yonglingng5640 It was a brand new bike, and even the LBS couldn't get it adjusted.
@@yonglingng5640 Can confirm, I have an SX Eagle set, it was almost impossible to set, even with a perfect hanger, in the bikeshop they had to align it multiple times, but finally they got it. (Maybe they bended the whole derailleur a bit out, to get it work, or something like that. It's a feature of these, that their pulleys are inwards...)
My best bike has 9 speed Dura Ace 7700 series. Perfect shifting front and back. Good journalism, factual and unbiased
Video drops out at 1:01 to 1:11
Oops not sure what happened there! Sorry about that
They make great fishing reels as well have caught many lunkers on the stradic
I am left wondering if Shimano has started to become Campagnolo of the past letting SRAM innovate and push the boundaries that Shimano once did. Certainly, competition is good I doubt we would have ever seen 105 Di2 if it weren't for SRAM Rival AXS. Soon add APEX AXS to drive the price down further. All great for the consumer.
They make great fishing reels too. All my Reels are Shimano as are my bike components
haha, came here to say the same thing. Spot on.
Very nice video! Bravo
Thank you! Cheers!
Dura Ace was introduced in 1974, hence the 25th anniversary group coming out in 1999.
Very nice documentary
Shimano got the correct strategy by offering the full price range from entry right up to pro level. It means you start using Shimano on your first cheaper road bike and so get used to that system and when you upgrade to a better bike, you’re more likely to stay with a gear shifting mech that you know. Campagnolo concentrate on the higher end and so miss out on a big chunk of the market
David, you left out Shimano Positron gears announced in 1974 as Index gearing which evolved into SIS.
I currently run SRAM Red 22 eTap and just bought Campagnolo Super Record 12 speed mechanical (rim brakes). I have Shimano 105 11 speed on my other bikes. Shimano has priced me out of their current range.
You can pick up mechanical 105 very cheap now.
Good video~
Begging for SRAM one🤩
1981 Shimano’s aero dynamic group set killed off the French bike component manufacturers. French had gears by simplex, brakes by Mafac, etc each component under different management, although they did try. Only campagnolo could step up to shimano by producing a good aerodynamic response.
As someone who has worked in the cycling industry for 45 years, I can say with 100% confidence that the Shimano AX group had no hand in killing off the French component makers. It was Suntour, Dia Compe, Sugino, and SR who did that in the 70’s. Shimano was starting to make a dent, and made good (and arguably better) derailleurs than Suntour, but did not really take off until they introduced Dura Ace with SIS in 1984. After that Campagnolo and Suntour were well behind, with Suntour succumbing to the falling yen. Shimano also had the resources at that point to dominate the growing mountain bike market, which Campagnolo tried in the beginning but soon abandoned.
@@dylangrantz8124 I have a full Dura Ace AX bike. It can be seen on the GCN app; search for Araya 821. I never had an issue with the pedals, but I do agree the brakes were not very powerful. But at least…unlike the Campagnolo Deltas…they were small, lightweight, and easy to service.
The biggest change has been the upper end market shift to complete bike sales. In the past high bike buyers would choose a frame. Then buy the group choice they wanted. It is not good for one dominant company in any market. It doesn’t play out well in the long run.
Great video, thanks :-)
It's interesting, in any long sportive in UK nearly 50% group sets seen are Ultegra, in my LBS >50% of bikes in for service are Ultegra - no doubt they have got the market. I have an old bike with 2010 super record, but boy how much to replace a chain or cassette - its eye watering. All my other bikes are ...er... Ultegra!
Since Shimano's compatibility is unbeatable, I think the idea of groupset is limiting. I'd rather Shimano distinguish the class using part number. But they can keep the HG, HGX, HGX+, & microspline to guide the compatibility information.
in latin america there are a few other brands like sunrace but if you want the best in every price point for bike parts the choice is shimano period.
Sounds like Shimano is the Nintendo of cycling to me :).Fantastic stuff, loved from leisure cyclist to pro; but a bully on the market and making some weird decisions now and again ( mech. shifting )
Still like dura ace 9100 mercanical works great and cheaper feel I'm being frosed to now change to electric gearing a friend of mine has gone back to mercancal shifting as the di2 wasn't up to all the hipe
DOWNTUBE SHIFTERS 🙌 I’m happy with your words that “it is an art form” hence why I primarily ride downtube shifters both in index and friction mode because that art form amplifies riding BEYOND comprehension it’s like a dance that not just anyone can do right away. Takes years to master. Also I’m NOT from that era it was way before my time but I just know this eloquent detail is forgotten and love keeping it alive. Plus the quality of parts from this era always impresses me when I get a hold of vintage components.
I am an older rider who rode with down tube friction shift levers back in the day. I’m not nostalgic for them, but they make sense on a vintage bicycle. I have a Nuovo Record groupset on a Crescent Världsmästarcykeln I bought in 1972.
@@5891jonathan that is so cool to hear! Keep that bike forever ❤️🔥
I have a nuovo groupset too on my dads Colnago master. And while i do recognise that that is what they had back then, objectively when I ride it, it’s a piece of shit compared to my current di2 12spd shimano products.
In short, campag stuff are well made for sure,they’re also very well made to perform reliably like crap in each and every shift.
I don't recall having any trouble getting to grips with mastering them when I was about 10 years old!
Shimano has been innovative. Despite accusations of being “overpriced” Shimano components are extremely durable and work flawlessly. I am still riding bikes equipped with Shimano 600 and Dura Ace 7700, and they’re great. By the way, there were claims that the DA 7700 groupset was overpriced when I bought it in 1998. It wasn’t.
I want Shimano to do a 1 X 12 electronic mullet like Sram have..
As it is now its "only' a 1 X 11 mechanical.
Campy could be amazing with their Ekar 1 X 13 but it's mechanical..
How about overview on SRAM ??😊
Coming soon
Any answer to Rohloff? For touring
A very innovative company, but I feel their current marketing could be their downfall.
I have simpler question: why bike components are so expensive?
No mention of Suntour? How Shimano copied their slanted parallelogram design? As did Campy later on. The real David and Goliath battle was Suntour v Shimano, unfortunately Shimano were too big, there can be only one etc etc. I remember in the mid 80s most bikes outside of top racing bikes (Campy) were Suntour equipped, all the early mountain bikes etc before Shimano became dominant.
Won't be long before they price themselves out of the market for ordinary riders
@ Andrew Hayes; Exactly 💯. It's a shame that Shimano has discontinued mechanical groupsets for Dura Ace and Ultegra. 105 is available now as a 12 spd mechanical groupset. But that won't be around very long. Are ordinary riders ready to shell out money for Di2. Riders demand a choice between mechanical and electronic. IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.
Having handled parts from The Big 3 countless times, it's safe to say, Shimano gave me the most confidence in working with groupsets, mainly also because I'm familiar with them.
Not only do they possess good mechanical design (I like the adoption of Shadow RD and repositioned STI lever clamp band bolts), their online resources (Shimano Technical Documents) are easy to access as well (I knew about this and started using them long before I worked as a shop mechanic).
Simply put, their components just work.
Here are some reasons why I don't prefer the other two:
SRAM
General: Not sticking with one standard long-term (mainly the crankset spindle), DOT fluid for hydraulic brakes
Mechanical: Requires more force to actuate shifts (very tactile shift paddle feedback), DoubleTap shift logic has the steepest learning curve (not so friendly for beginners in my opinion)
Electronic: Heavy and bulky derailleurs (eTap AXS), slightly slower shifting than even third-generation Di2
Campagnolo
General: Chains still use a pin (that also needs be peened, something almost all chain breakers can't do), crankset spindle-mounted bottom bracket bearings (that also run different 6805 bearings that are 1 mm thinner: 25x37x6 mm), horrible ErgoPower lever clamp band bolt placement (requires long-reach bits)
Mechanical: Proprietary shift and brake housings (4.1 and 4.9 mm instead of 4 and 5 mm like everybody else)
Electronic: Wires factory-attached to every component (even messier than first to third-generation Shimano Di2, easier to screw up too), doesn't shift as fast as Shimano Di2
Sounds like your complaints about Campagnolo relate to your experience as a bike-builder, not as a rider.
@@5891jonathan Even riding with Campagnolo doesn't feel as good too, the ergonomics just don't suit me all that well. In terms of sprint-shifting, among all mechanical groupsets, SRAM DoubleTap did it best.
I only like riding with whatever I like working on, this is something most riders will never say because most don't dirty their hands and fingers from working on their bikes.
You forgot about SunTour some of the best equipment around, still using some now. The financial clout of Shimano finished them off. So sad.
I have Suntour on a down tube steel bike from the 80’s. It’s nothing special compared to shimano of the era
I dunno if bikes, given current prices, are considered humble anymore… 😁🍻
Still cheaper than the new BMC M3 Touring I've just watched a video on!!
@@davidarthur 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Expensive hobby all round to be honest
Go new old stock! Top quality stuff exists out there at a fraction of the cost
Bikes are cheap. You could get a bike from decathlon for under 300$
But, an enthusiast level bike? No. Those were never meant to be “cheap”. It’s an enthusiast hobby, and hence with any hobby, it’s not meant to be priced at a point where every Tom, dick or harry can just roll up on one.
Thinking that enthusiast stuff should be priced for the masses is simply entitled hypocrisy masquerading as outrage.
Shimano Ftw!
5:10 "unrivaled quality", a force to be reckoned with, placing them at the apex of the groupset ecosystem.
Will you do sram next is that more mountain bike?
Yup SRAM is on the list too
I always trusted Shimano ultegra group sets and always paid the extra price
The recall on shimano cranks doesn’t help with their reputation
Would be great if we could actually buy their parts 🙄 there isn’t a 53/39 or a 54/40 to be found anywhere. Absolute joke.
You can find it fitted on pro bikes
I finally found a 54/40 175mm a few weeks ago. Worth the wait.
@@SPLSE you were lucky that a 175 fits you. I was told 6 months wait for a 172.5 once ordered. “Just in time manufacturing” ya right.
I guess nobody needs such as dinner plate
Once again, you've failed to hold shimanos to account by creating another fluff peice for shimano. There was no mention of the terrible cable routing in 7900 or the cranks that fell apart due to corrosion and instead talked about subjective failures?
SHIMANO success?? Their crank is one of the worst....Corrosion on crank arm. One of the rider just had a crash because of that.
Which series are you talking about?
Some things are inaccurate. Since campagnolo beat shimano to 10, 11, 12, and 13 speed...
True, Shimano wasn't always the first in some cases, but as with Apple being first isn't always the key to success
My bespoke race bike is Columbus. The groupset is Campagnolo. No japanese garbage on my bikes.
How would Shimano become a dominant force with 'garbage'? My 10 years old Deore rear derailleur still works flawlessly with the same-aged trigger shifters. How can pros win with garbage? Campagnolo sponsors one (!) pro team for 2023, "UAE Team Emirates are now a Shimano-sponsored team and will no longer use Campagnolo, as of 2023."
If you cannot wait for the next 100 years David does this mean you will live to at lease two hundred years or more ?.
I never had a Shimano bike, it has always been Campagnolo and SRAM reason is that I never liked the way the shifters worked, to shift gears you had to move all of the brake leaver which I never got used to. Nevertheless the quality is very good and works great, for those that like SHIMANO 😊
shimano lost all of its credibility with the huge crankset scandal. If I buy a groupset I want it to last forever, just like campy does. Shimano gained his superiority not because of quality and reliability but by dominating the market with cheap groupset. I'll never put that crap on my bike, always used campag and always will... some chance to buy a SRAM, but never shimano. I bought a gravel recently, first thing I've done is changing the GRX600 with an ekar.
Rapid Rise styled derailleurs have value if you run friction. Which, gravel bikes are, surprisingly, bringing some repopularizing toward.
Campag has basically done nothing for 20 years. I’m surprised it’s still in business 🤦🏻♂️
Do sram and campagnolo
Isn’t it simply because they made shifters that shifted better, brakes that brakes better, and wheels that wheeled better?
Let’s be real. Campag’s only really appeal is this misplaced confidence in “Italian” workmanship.
The mechanical design in their ErgoPower levers is a joke. You can't easily torque them down on the handlebars as you need a long-reach bit for that and not everybody has such a bit.
With Shimano STI, especially the newer ones, just a regular bit socket will do.
Well this video leaves a lot out
New Shimano 12s is good. Especially the design, you gotta love it.
Shimano gotta work on all exposed electronic wires.
Japanese craftmanship, they will test and improve the product until its up to their standard, very high standard. They might be a little bit slow in pushing out new products but once they did, it will be something outstanding.
Dura Ace 7402 and Campagnolo C record was the best groupset I've ever ridden.
Is it me or was I expecting to see more out of this video than just stock footage from Shimano’s Dura Ace history video.
Sorry but I feel like this could have been made differently. Have some more content about the flops. More on Hollowtech, Hollow glide, something… it just feels like a dub over shimano video.
SHIMANO = THE BEST
WTF was the secret?
You can never go wrong with shimano.
Love Shimano but chain and cassette is not a feature. They should start introducing belt drives
Don't forget their fishing side hustle as well! Lol
two of my bikes have sram and two Shimano, the Shimano is so much more refined, durable and smooth. They remind me of Toyota vehicles, no real bling but superb functionality and durability
And.... This video was sponsered by Shimano - Don't go to commercial mate, it makes you sound unauthentic ;)
Honestly this video wasn't sponsored! I'm doing SRAM and Campagnolo next. Any other companies you want to put under the spotlight?
@@davidarthur Great work mate, please don't take this personally but it just sounds like all the "Breakaway" TH-cam journalists are covering the same stories/companies be it clothing, bikes or componants yet maybe that's just what it takes to get paid? P.s. Would love to see some stuff about companies like Rotor or Easton maybe? Anyways I watch most of your videos and I wouldn't watch if I didn't like ;)
Thanks! Are there products you're looking to buy from Rotor or Easton out of interest?
@@davidarthur I've only used Q-rings from Rotor which I love but would like to know more about other products from them and I own 2x sets of the old M1-hub wheels from Easton (mountain & road) which are about 8 or 10 years old now and they still perform better than most new wheels so I would love to know what their new stuff is like both road and gravel, but no one is covering.
SHIMANO = OVERPRICED
lol ok
They’re all overpriced…
Ummm no
That you cannot afford shimano it doesn't mean it is overpriced 😅
@@ghroij7757 Who said that? It's just a waste of money. Microshift group: 300$. Duraace group 6000$. Thats abusive.
SRAM not even mentioned 💀
Saving that story for a separate video
No one gets a Shimano tattoo__Campy forever
I think Shimano tricked people into thinking that friction shifting is difficult. It isn't, and it is very lightweight.
Indexed shift levers are heavier than friction shift levers? Do tell. 🤔
@@5891jonathan I am referring to downtube shifters and STI shifters. Just the shorter cable will save you kilo or two. Indexing is only needed if the rider lacks coordination in his or her digits.
100g less weight won't help you when one bad shift leaves you 100m behind on a hill... (and even pro's made bad shifts back then). Also, my new Ultegra Di12sp can shift under ridiculous power.
Lol, the answer people don’t want to hear: Lance Armstrong
The next 100 years will be where you fully plug into your bike and become one with it in some kind metaverse style symbiosis via a Musk style neuro link through your brain. Transhumanism...
Pretty clear who’s paying your bills
This wasn't an advert. I'm doing SRAM and Campagnolo next so watch out for those
@@davidarthur My sincerest apologies for questioning your journalistic integrity.
Shitmano is nothing but poor quality fishing gear. Best used as weights in crab pots
Shimano copied all the tech off Signori Campagnolo
I don't see a Grand Tour in Japan like the Historic Giro..
Furthermore ...Shimano is for fishing not cycling..now go get yourself a pole ..
Shimano didn’t copy indexed shifting, Hyperglide cassettes, or STI. It innovated these advances.
@@5891jonathan it stole them..exactly.. best to get your rod and reel and go fishing