Sounds like you suffer from Low B. You need to immediately get on the Barbell Prescription STAT! You can get on it via the video by that name of Barbell Medicine's channel, edited by Alan.
Guys, remember. If you're already on another program, say 5/3/1 and it's working well for you stay on it until it's not. That was a key point Alan made at the beginning of the video.
I practice Muay Thai but also love going to the gym and I find that 5/3/1 is a good middleground for performance, I make steady progress while also not negatively affecting my main activity, I go 3 days a week and customize the template to allow for exercises that can carry over to the ring... Great video!
@@erikjlee1 He said basically if you perform a lift more often with heavier weight you gain more strength. What could be more often than seven days a week, 8? What could be heavier than your max, your max +1?
@@BT-oj1bn I look at those doing the Bulgarian Methods/Squatting everyday, etc. Unless you're on steroids (in which case you can get away with training less frequently than natural lifters and being generally stronger), natural lifters need more frequency. Olympic weightlifters are a good example of this. In order to be better at the Snatch and C&J, they perform these lifts and variations often, along with High Bar Squatting and perhaps Front Squatting. Hell, I think it was Konstatin Konstantinov (powerlifter who died recently, may he RIP) trained multiple times per day to be awesome at the lifts, including the deadlift. Edit: after being on The Texas Method doing it 3x per week, doing Beyond 5/3/1 with Joker sets and Down sets with Pause Squats and Pause Benching 4x weekly increased my lifts.
"Your program is not the reason you are stuck in a plateau. You are the reason." - Alan, 2015 "I was doing 5/3/1 this time last year and I wasn't making any progress." - Alan, 2017
beefsteax I'd frame that a little differently. Alan recently threw out his entire body of knowledge (he literally said to forget everything he has ever said) because he paid into someone else's club and added 10% to one lift. That's not "changing your mind," that's more like joining a new religion. There's nothing wrong with broadening your knowledge base. There is something wrong with deciding this new thing is the only thing now. I've had manybteachers in my life, and one very important thing I learned is that there are many ways to do things well. If your combat instructor says his way is the only way, he probably isn't very good. And that's sad for many of us who learned quite a bit from Alan before he decided that everything he ever thought or said is invalid, because he was already pretty accomplished. New thought in, no room for any other thought.
Stop scrolling, friend. I've summed up all the comments for you. "You did 5/3/1 wrong" "You did the old method of 5/3/1. It's better now." "You forgot to do the 1000 reps of assistance work." "You said something different 3 years ago." "You should try ." "But does 5/3/1 and is way stronger than you." "I live in my mom's basement and have never been to the gym and get human interaction only by posting whiny crybaby comments on TH-cam."
tjwd wendler says to do BBB along side it literally adding 50 reps. I'm sure strong lifts is on its first draft, nor is starting strength or any other widespread program. So why not just compare the up to date info to the up to date info? I first picked up 5/3/1 a couple of years back and even then it was old news that wendler reccomended BBB alongside it, as the article.i came across where he reccomended it wasn't exactly new. But he doesn't look at BBB Alan just pretends you do the bare minimum which wendler makes very clear is only really half the program. And Alan doesn't acknowledge that really. I'm not a huge fan of wendler pre season, I got results on it with a few small tweaks, but I disliked the lack of pulling volume on it quite a lot. It's far from perfect.
I just hate how people who have never read the book think that 5/3/1 means that you only do 5/3/1 sets/reps and you are done... Where are the acessory templates that have you doing 5x10 supersetting benches and pullups and presses and rows at least two times a week and hill sprints and prowler pushes on the off days? there are more than TEN different templates for acessories for different goals. 5/3/1 is just the first exercise and first 20 minutes of the 5/3/1 actual training.
Yes but all of the accessory templates have you doing sets of 10-20. This is completely sub optimal for strength. 5/3/1 is essentially a Hypertrophy program with a very small strength component. Better off doing one of the templates from practical programming for strength training.
I've been doing 5/3/1 for about a year and a half, seeing great progress into an advanced stage. This video kind of misrepresents 5/3/1 by neglecting the fact that 5/3/1 uses supplementary and assistance work to add main life volume . I personally recommend first set last 5x5. FSL 5x5 will change your volume/intensity as follows using Alan's math: 5+ week - 45 reps at %65% 3+ - week 37 reps at ~68% 1+ week - 30 reps at %71% On top of that, I would suggest some variation of your main lift for an additional heavy ~25 reps a session. (I like 4x6 or 4x8) Since Alan counted variations of the main lift in his math, it is only fair that I do as well. I won't do the intensity math on this because it depends on how intense you want it to be and this comment is getting long. But looking through my training logs I average about ~140 main lift pressing reps a week, which is still less than Alan, but not 4x less. I will note that my average intensity is still a lot lower than Alan's. That said, I agree with Alan's points about 5/3/1 not having enough volume at sufficient intensity. But you don't need to misrepresent the program to make this case.
Honestly Alan: This video is kind of a let down compared to your usual standards. The 5/3/1 routine you followed is called "I'm not doing jack sh!t" in Wendler's book - and it is for people who have one or two busy/stressed weeks where they don't have time to lift properly - so he recommends doing only the 5/3/1 lifts as opposed to not lifting. The other templates have a ton of assistance exercises which are supposed to be customized to your personal needs (Wendler does have suggestions though, but if you need upper body strength you will focus on this). Some of them also include adding extra volume. (Boring but big is NOT what I am talking about - that is a body building / size building template which will at best prevent you from losing strength). Later on in "Beyond 5/3/1" Wendler has made two main-changes: 1. If you are a higher intermediate/advanced lifter you should only deload every other cycle (so every 7 weeks) and with higher intensity than originally prescribed. 2. He introduces "joker sets". These sets are for your good days. Lets say you had to do 5 reps with 85% of your training max and got 10 reps. Then instead of stopping do another plus set with 95% - then 105% and so on until you feel like the next set will be impossible. This raises volume on all "good" days drastically. Anyway: The original 5/3/1 does have its shortcomings - especially the original program, but you are not doing it justice. So you have found a Starting Strength coach that you like who has made you progress with a new program and that is cool. But why present your old program in such an unfair manner? It feels as if you are trying to distance yourself from everything you have done/said in the past to impress him (or the Barbell Medicine crew), and that is very unlike how I have come to "know" you through your content. To quote you on an old video reviewing programs "Every program works if you follow it properly". There is truth in that - so you have already given yourself the answer as to why it didn't work for you. Just to make thing clear: I am glad you new program is working better for you. I am glad that you like your new coach and seem to be learning new things. I am glad that your business seems to be doing well and you keep uploading (mostly) quality content. But I sure as hell hope you wont stop staying true to yourself - that is a very slippery slope. All the best. -T
Well, Mr. Dr. Feigenbaum, MD made an article about 5/3/1 and Texas Method were he ended up kinda shitting on both, and now it looks like Allan is just making a video based on that. In the article he based his calculations on a 2009 article and just ignored everything Wendler has put out since. Kinda disappointing when he's supposed to represent a scientific sober approach. Honestly, I think 5/3/1 with Joker sets and FSL plus proper assistance selection, looks very close to what Allan is curently doing in terms of volume and intensity. However, since neither side bothers doing any research they just end up shitting on each other. I'll agree that 5/3/1 doesn't have optimal bench frequency, but the majority of implementations are a lot better than what Allan and his masters is making them out to be.
You can read my article Into the Great Wide Open on 5/3/1. There is no variation of it that is still 5/3/1 that is useful. The core of the program is junk.
One of the most important aspects of 5/3/1 is the accessory work though. My current routine (BBB) has you doing OHP as an accessory to BP and DL to Squat and so on...you do them at 50-60% for 5x10 reps. I also proceed to add 3-4 more accessories per day. It's working for me (Although I'm not really advanced) and it's really fun. Your week looks like hell though. It sure as hell would be effective.
I feel like the inclusion of Joker Sets and First Set Last (or doing BBB style assistance) takes care of the problems you discussed. Would be really cool to see a follow-up video.
He did for the most part. He said the problem is the total lack of volume at the right intensity and he’s right. FSL does become a significant stressor until the 3rd week and by then the lifter is possibly already detrained. BBB 5x10 is just too low intensity. Yeah it’s hard because it’s 50 reps with low rest periods after the main work but that doesn’t make it productive. It does very little for maximal strength. Joker sets are a good inclusion but you can’t do them until the anchors which are only the last 3 of every 9 weeks not including deload and even then there isn’t much guidance as opposed to programming singles as the main work with a specific goal in mind.
Honestly if he was doing 5/3/1 with jokers, then the "Boring but STRONG" template (10 sets of 5 at 80%TM) he would have made amazing gains. But for some reason he ran the oldest most outdated and basic version of the program designed for extremely slow but easily reciverable progress and not designed for the most efficient strength gains possible. It's sad really, because there are some extremely good 5/3/1 variations that work insanely well in the Beyond & Forever books. But the standard RPE training we see in most top USAPL lifters works amazingly good as well. Just wish people wouldn't claim 5/3/1 lacks volume/intensity when they haven't read wendlers books and tried variations that include higher volumes and intensities
@@eneserkuvan I’m the worst dude to ask about 531. I saw awful results with it and don’t recommend it for anyone unless they’ve already seen progress on it. I’m currently running the Texas Method 4 day split and think it’s awesome. If you’re into bodybuilding and powerlifting then I would ditch the overhead press or just train it as an accessory and use the extra day as more upper body work. However Texas method really isn’t a bodybuilding program in the slightest but you can definitely throw in a couple accessories if you have the recovery ability.
@@WolfgangLizana I ran 3 or 4 531 variations over the course of 4 months and saw massive strength losses. 531 is certainly not for everyone. It’s very minimal main lift work and too much accessory work. Accessory lifts should not make or break a program for a young intermediate lifter.
In Wendler's books there are many ways to increase the volume: such as boring but big, first set last and many other options to provide supplemental work to the base prpgram...
Wendler's latest work/book has routines with far more supplementary volume than the original programme. 5/3/1 lifts followed by 5x10@65% or 10x5@70% or 5x5@85%.
@@madbodhi234 What do you mean by elbow tendons? Tendon pain in the elbow area is almost always a triceps tendon issue. Biceps tendinitis is most common at the shoulder origin.
Josh Richardson no one is upset he's moved on. People are upset that he's comparing something that is NOT what webdlernisnt reccomends and calling it 531. Compare away, but be fair.
5/3/1 has changed a lot since it was first released. Beyond 5/3/1 introduced a lot of assistance templates, and these templates give extra volume for the MAIN lifts - this is what 'assistance' means in 5/3/1 - compound movements, not accessories. Also, the most recent 5/3/1 book, called 5/3/1 Forever, sells the program as a general athletic program, where it provides many templates for including lifting, assistance work, conditioning, recovery work, and athletic work. It has templates for many different kinds of athletes with different goals. A big part of the program now is periodization - there are 'leader' and 'anchor' templates, which correspond to volume and intensity blocks respectively. It even has a beginner-specific template. Wendler uses 5/3/1 to train high school athletes, similar to Juggernaut Training Systems. 5/3/1 has become more of a philosophy on how to train and a brand with many associated programs/templates; it's not just one program. Because of the above, I think it's useless and even detrimental to make this comparison video. 5/3/1 is no longer the program that you ran (even though you didn't really run it how it was intended, with all the assistance work). As a result, you're spreading misinformation about the program, which will prevent others from learning more about the programming that Wendler has created.
I am really dissapoint in this video. Alan is one of the best fitness youtubers. alan wasnt even able to find information about program he was running for i dont know how long. He was basically running i aint doing jack shit template (official wendlers template). His data were correct. but misleading. he should change name of the video 5/3/1 I aint doing jack shit.
I was running 5/3/1 for a long time. I was making veeeeeery slow progress. Now I'm running The Bridge. I'm in the 4th week and my gains sky rocketed. Everyone should try out. The first two weeks are challenging, makes you think on quitting, but then you get used to it.
@@hariskhalid2323 that aged well! I've dropped it. I'm with a Powerlifting coach since 2018 and I compete through IPF here in Brazil at 120kg class. The best program is to have a coach doing the periodization for you though. Thanks for the shoutout!
Taking an average intensity does not always make a lot of sence. Having a group of people where the one half is 20 y/o and another half with 80y/o and saying that the average age is 50 is true, but does not give is a precise image of how old the people are. Same with intensity. Squating a 1RM and afterward squatting 9 reps at 30% intensity will give you an average of 37%, 10 reps. The next week you squat 10 reps at 50%. Which day was hardest? The first day. I dont know a lot about 531, and never plan on doing it, and im a part of the ss "cult" myself, but doing a set of five at 83% and doing two back off sets at 5x65% will give an average of 71%, 15 reps. Lets say another person does 3 sets across of 5 reps at 72% what will cause an adaptation? The first example with the heavy set could be an example of intensity day on The Texas Method. The other one would anly serve as a light day. The light day, (mabye medium on a HLM program) the first example will proberbly cause a bigger adaptation than the second. Of cause it makes no sense to pick out single examples like this. It only makes sense to talk about one week of training, or mabye a month. But my point is that taking the average of the intensity does not always make sense.
Good video Alan. I am the same as you spent years training 531 style and this year starting following Renaissance periodisation and the increase in volume and intensity is doing wonders for me
For those of you who are interested in 531, be sure to buy beyond 531 which is the updated program. This book is better suited for powerlifters because there's many templates that have bench three times a week and squat three times a week. It's also a great read.
Man thanks - I don't give a shit if you're right or wrong. You're making videos and giving your best advice FOR FREE. Your lifts are verified. I'm amused by the usual internet comment wars, but it's bizarre how people who can't do the lifts spend so much time arguing about which program is best. I remember this trash talk from martial arts...guys who never compete can't talk enough! I'm a tiny intermediate lifter, but I'm confused why people would use 5/3/1 for competition style gains. In the first pages of 5/3/1, Wendler says "I was burned out from competitive powerlifting. I was tired of bench shirts, box squats, bands and being fat...I needed a change - but I didn’t know exactly what I wanted or how I was going to get there. My first order of business was losing weight. I was about 280 pounds, and I wanted to be able to tie my shoes without turning red. I wanted to be able to walk down the street without losing my breath." It sounds like you want to win matches but not tie your shoes. Kidding, and I'm only getting slow gains off 5/3/1. I'm going to give the Bridge a read and likely try (or work in elements) as even though I'm 49 friggin years old, I feel like maybe I can do more volume (I started "big but boring" a few months ago after plateauing). It's just I never heard of 5/3/1 being used as anything but a lifting strength / life balance MIX.
Yeah high volume on OHP and bench did the trick for me as well. Following nsuns 5/3/1 LP I finally pushed my bench over 100 kg and OHP over 70 kg and it hasn't stopped improving.
I found the same thing Alan, increased volume and frequency are huge to boost your numbers. This is due to the neural adaptations that happen in our bodies, since the human body is lazy AF and always tries to find was to be more efficient at the tasks to spent less energy, if we set this stress often and in large quantities, is just logical that adaptations would happen faster
For a long time I had a long and complicated lifting program. I was on the ICF with extra stuff, so each day I'd be doing three or four main movements and then accessories, and other random things. After going to the gym for two years or so with this program, my mindset had moved from becoming more aesthetic to appreciating lifting heavy, so I figured I'd try a little powerlifting instead. After doing a bunch of research on things and watching a lot of Alan's videos, I decided to try the simplest possible program. Every week I have a squat day, bench day and deadlift day. I only do that movement for the entire duration of the gym on that day at an intensity of 70 to 90%. Each week I count together my volume and try to do more next week. No rep schemes, no set amounts, just lifting. I also eat a lot and put effort into getting good sleep. So far I've gotten to the biggest numbers I've ever seen. When I stall I'll add more variety of movements, but for now it's working pretty well.
I am that first kind of guy (on 531 and I think it's great for me right now) but to be clear: I'm over 40. I have kids and work stress. I'm just getting back into lifting from 5 years off. I'm currently pretty overweight (see previous) and everything is in flux. So the slower progression, lighter weights, and longer recovery really works for me right now. I know full well that eventually I'll hit the end of my linear progression and I'll need to program differently.
Question: Let's say you have 3 sets at RPE8, and you pick 200lb. Set 1 and 2 are fine, but you are pretty sure for set 3, 200lb would mean RPE9. Do you drop weight for that last set?
You adjust the weight so that every set is @8. If rest times are intentionally lower for example, you would have to decrease weight every set to maintain the @8 RPE.
Agree that the meat is in Beyond. I love Forever, though. Some of the tweaks he made to the program are great and I'm amazed at how much he does with 5/3/1.
I have just finished my "nsuns 531", I ran it for 6 months and gained 20 lbs to all 4 lifts. Remember I am an intermediate lifter, not newbie gainz, so I can't complain. I switched only because I wanted to experience other program. But I must say, 531 was not the best compared to all the program I have tried, neither the worst. And it actually works.
Hi Alan , i am currently trying the bridge program . I would like to know , what made your coach, dr.Austin, change your tempo squat. Also what was the replacement of it..?
Many problems with this video, your example of your squat week and the percentages you use would be for day 1 week 1 of the program, you are meant to start light and ramp up at the start of the program. Your squat 5's day 6 months into the program would be far more intense . As for volume and frequency, Wendler has addressed this many, many times. FSL, joker sets, customised assistance work etc... There is a reason this program is insanely popular.
Theoretically that would work great but realistically many lifters who are used to higher volume at a higher intensity would become detrained and see a regression as opposed to progression.
I do legs,push,pull twice every 7 days with a rest day in between each cycle. I go light on the first cycle with more reps for hypertrophy and then heavy on the second cycle for strength. Is it possible to make both strength and hypertrophy gains at the same time like this? Or am i just wasting my time. Its too early for me to tell since i just made this up and have only been using it for 4 days. I use to do push,pull,legs twice every seven days with a rest day on sunday but after almost a year of it going well i began to overtrain and noticed my deadlift and squat maintanaces were getting harder. (my diet wasnt the issue. (i squat and deadlift once a cycle) Any reply would be cool thanks. And Im 15 btw idk if it matters.
Hey alan. If i do wendler and modify it so i do an exercise that works the same muscles that a squat does for example a split squat, as assistance on deadlift day. And also do a deadlift assistance exercise on squat day. Same with the bench and the overhead press. And also do calisthenics and some casual oly lifts in 1 workout twice a week. Do you think it would be enough volume? Or is it too much and i would overtrain doing it? What do i need to change in case i need to change something? Please keep in mind that my goal is to be a hybrid athlete(run fast, lift heavy shit, be explosive at jumping and oly lifts , do crazy calisthenics moves like planche and stuff. The whole package realy! Do you think it is possible? If so how would you do it if u were me? Am i on the right track?
Force = Mass x Acceleration Work = Force x Distance Power = Work / Time Intensity = Power / Area Intensity is not solely defined by the amount of reps you do at a given RPE, but also bar acceleration and time in which you complete the rep. If you're able to double your acceleration on a weight which is only 20% less and complete the work in half the time then the intensity is greater. 531 can be a great program, but you need to perform each rep with maximal force and it lends itself to people who have more type II (fast twitch) muscle fibers.
Honest question Alan. Could this be fixed by using the boring but big or 5/3/1 rest pause template and calculating the training max as a higher percentage or just using 90%1RM without the training max calculation? Quick example, using squats, I've done 5/3/1 RP with around double to triple + set reps plus a down set of 20 reps and one more down set of 10 so my volume there is significantly higher than just the base 5/3/1 sets/reps. Intensity will always be lower however using the Training Max calculation so that's a good point.
5/3/1 is not only the minimum sets you do. What about accessories? I will follow 5/3/1 until I make no gains and then I will try the bridge. Looks pretty good.
Chris Adams The reason he excluded the accessory work is because it's not very specific to the barbell movements. It's different movements with different impliments at far lower intensities. TLDR: Not all volume is equal.
Chris Adams You should ignore it if its unspecific and doesn't have much carryover. But if he did leave out barbell supplementary lifts I think thats wrong.
The Dacian Prince I've been bro lifting for 3 years, but started the Starting Strength Novice Linear Progression 3 weeks ago. I'm gonna run it as long as possible, then hop to the bridge. I'd recommend the same.
100 % true. One of the main issues with the most programmes: No difference in the upper- lower body frequency. I had absolut the same experiences. Great job Allan!
Alan, you should be noted that the 5/3/1 people are doing nowadays is often quite different to the 5/3/1 original. You can address any of those "problems" (intensity, volume etc.) with the new programming. Just to throw an example with more intensity/volume: Building the Monolith.
Nidhogg check out the Jims forum in Tnation for some quidance. For the complete method you'll need to buy the forever book or log in to his private forum.
Alan, vets, somebody please help me! I'm on week 5 of the 5/3/1, should I keep going or should I change? I was planning on finally getting knee sleeves so I might have to start fresh again, anyways, but should I start fresh with 5/3/1 or what Alan is suggesting? (SN: I have bad knees and I'm doing sumo deadlifts)
ARGHHH I have been spinning my wheels on 5/3/1. Doing a bit more volume after the main lifts but not enough, apparently. I wish I would have seen this video 7 weeks ago... 5 weeks out from my first competition. Oh well. Always funny and informative. Not a lot of stupid filler. You rock, Alan. Thanks for the advice. Clicking on links now.
Im 17 my birthday was yesterday Im 5'7 and Im 62 kg bw currently running 5/3/1 In two cycles my old deadlift 5 rep max is now my 9 rep max and my technique is also .cut better Im not strong not claiming to be but it worked for me
Benjamin X Are you sure you are an intermediate lifter?? 5/3/1 is for intermediate lifters. If you are still a novice lifter, you should be doing Starting Strength or StrongLifts 5x5, not 5/3/1.
accordingly to most weight to lifts charts Im an intermidiate lifter (my worst lift being the bench but still intermidiate ) I tried starting strenght but made no progression in the bench and dead and my squat and OHP didnt went up that much plus even if it works I found it boring and training for me is the best part of the week not enjoying it was frustrating
Benjamin X If it didn't work when you were a novice, it was your fault, not the program's. You probably didn't eat / sleep enough, so its impossible for the program to work (95% of people who said it didn't work weren't eating / sleeping enough, even if they think they did) , or you were doing other things that were interfering with your recovery (Like doing other exercices, too much cardio, changing the program). SSLP and SL 5x5 are time proven methods that work for novices every time they are performed correctly.
Wagner Bertholdo Burghausen nope I did everything as intended it worked on some lifts becuase I was not as good at them most people that have done this program usually get stucked with the same weights and I was already there when I started therefore it didnt work FOR ME you are completly right that this programs are time proven and I never tried to say they were bad or didnt work just that they didnt work FOR ME
Benjamin X Well, I mean no disrespect to you, but I think if it didn't worked for you, and it worked (and still works) for everybody else, I can only guess you were doing something wrong... probably your form weren't very good at the exercices you didn't improve, and / or you had some recovery issues... Every novice should be able to make good progress in these programs... novices dont really need specific programs written individually for them (thats for advanced lifters / top level athletes). Mark Rippetoe is the one that says: "you are not a special snowflake". And I think this is True for novices... Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience, brother. It was nice to chat with you. Keep training, good Luck :)
Sounds like Alan found a program that is giving him the results he's looking for. That is a major deal with any lifter. Progress is tough... and sometimes you feel like nothing is working. At 49 going on 50... I realized that volume is my worst enemy... I can handle intensity but if i over do my volume... i go down hill. So i started a modified conjugate method. Good volume and intensity for me. Is it the end all program? probably not, but i am able to recover in less time while hitting new PR's... so for now... i will keep on keep'n on. Good luck Devil dog... Great Vid. Your editing skills are impressive... much different than in the beginning.
lmao the problem here is that you are assuming people are only doing the main lifts, without assistance exercises, when doing 5/3/1 which isn't even recommended by Jim Wendler in the book? You already know there are labeled templates for assistance exercises for 5/3/1 in the book so why avoid this in your video? I have and am still making amazing results off 5/3/1. I already see people giving 5/3/1 shit in the comments because they are listening to their idol, which is a shame since your are obviously missing out a lot of information about the 5/3/1 program. 13:20 no the different between the numbers doesn't tell shit since the volume on the 5/3/1 is calculated without assistance exercises.
and thats exactly why ist not that good. There is no periodization after your main lift if you dont do it yourself. A program which has periodization on everything you do in it will be more efficient most of the time, because in wendlers 531 you might get a Little lazy on them and think yea I m just going a lil lighter on db press today... . If you program your accessory work yourself with wendler like alphadestiny says in his new Video I think ist pretty much as good as alans program.
Wrong. Alan said at the start that if you're on a different program and it's working then carry on. You spent a paragraph whining because you couldn't be bothered to pay attention to the first couple minutes of the video.
No periodization?? Page 53: "Programming Your Assistance Work - The Simplest Strength Template The next few pages is an example 4 week template of how the program will look during a full training cycle. Here are the sets and reps for each lift, for each week. Week One - 50%x10, 60%x10, 70%x10 Week Two - 60%x8, 70%x8, 80%x6 Week Three - 65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5 Week Four - 40%x5, 50%x5, 60%x5" "Like the 5/3/1 program, the sets and reps are varied each week and are given a set percentage for each set." Why do you just write stuff without doing any research what so ever? These are all literal quotes off his book.
TheHaiku2 No??? I am saying the video is wrong because he doesnt take the assistance exercises of Wendler 5/3/1 into account??? The point of the comment was not to tell about my progress? Are you dense lol. Not even hard to figure out what I am trying to say with my comment.
5/3/1 is only a core, schema - You allways can (and You should) add proper accessories, that depends on what You actually need. If You want to increase muscle mass - use "Boring But Big" protocol, if You want to increase strength - You can perform accessories in "5x5" schema. I agree with You - 5/3/1 is average program, but not because low overal volume, but because 5/3/1 is too universal - it gives to many protocols, options, variants, etc... In my opinion, there is a paradox in 5/3/1 - to compose full program based on this schema, you need some knowledge... but if You already have this knowledge, you probably don't need 5/3/1! ;-)
thanks for the advice about people being capable of stressing more the upper body, I plan to do a texas method but only focusing on deadlift, bench press and row on intensity day so I hit almost all my muscles with just 3 lifts following a texas method programming. Keep making videos about intermediates dude you rock!
I have a weak bench press and have just started a program that is 4 times a week with each day corresponding to a main lift. I have been struggling a lot with my right shoulder being hunched and rounded and have been adding a lot more pulling exercises such as rows/pullups almost every day to try to help this. Would you still recommend pressing more often?
I had the same results with 5/3/1. I think its a great starter program and it gets you use to lifting more from strength than bodybuilding but quickly you need to move on to a more balance and high volume program.
What about assistance work? you dont count that into your total weekly pressing reps? for example 5x5 bench, 4x10 OHP and 4x8 dumbell presses for one day, If the assistance work is pretty heavy?
I am 16 years old and i look for a strength program. Do you recommend your own program or is that a bit to much for someone my age. I have been lifting for 1.5 years.
I was getting weaker by doing a program very similar to the one you’ve started. Went to a much lower intensity and volume program and have been getting dramatically stronger every workout. I guess my point is that change is good.
I do 5/3/1 with assistance exercises and a first and last rep based on the RPE method I've been pushed to my training limit this way by adjusting the 5/3/1 nopt only in intensity but also in volume
Just out of curiosity, did you guys start out on a more standard linear program before 5/3/1? This has no bearing on the conversation, just looked like a good place to ask :D
What I don't understand is how this RPE system seems like a fixed value. For example the same weight that was RPE 6 on my first set could turn into RPE 8 on my third set due to fatigue. Do I just not have enough of a baseline established?
Did you really just do the standard 5/3/1 scheme and none of the thousands of templates Wendler has pushed out over the years? And now you wonder why it's not enough volume? I assume you didn't read "Beyond 5/3/1" as it lists tons of possibilities to increase volume, such as First Set Last, Joker Sets, tons of variations of Boring But Big as well as other templates (Full Body, SSS, Strength Challenge, 100 rep challenge, rest pause, frequency project, etc. etc). Just doing the standard 5/3/1 is refered to as "Not Doing Jack Shit" and is not even recommended by Jim Wendler himself. Don't tell me you didn't know that. I remember a video of you saying that it's never the programs fault if you don't make any progress, it's always your own fault. Does that apply to everyone but yourself? What the hell happened to you man? I used to watch your videos religiously but since you're into SS, the quality of your videos has steadily decreased. Very sad.
JimsHacks I do 5/3/1 with first set last and joker sets on my 1+ week (week 3). If I get more than 2 Reps on my 1+ Set than I’ll perform joker sets... Wendler came out with Forever 531 and there are so many different templates for various training goals. Allan is specifically talking about the basic 531 program but I would love to see an updated video by these TH-camrs who all regurgitate the same “not enough volume” information.
I’m having a similar experiences recently after returning to 531. I tried vanilla 531 with BBB like 5 years ago and didn’t make much progress. Recently my lifts have been stuck for some time and I began following a training log of someone who was running 531 with joker sets and FSL. Man I can tell you this is exactly what I needed. Turns out I just wasn’t pushing my sets hard enough and had been training too much 5x5, 6x5, 6x3, etc for volume. The way I run it is to just hit the top set of the day and on some movements I do one joker set after and then one high rep set as FSL. Accoessory work is done using lifts that build the main lifts I’m focusing on.
Here are some corrections to the video. I calculated the figures with supplementary work added to the main work. - First Set Last: 45 reps at avg. 64% 1RM. - Boring But Big: 70 reps at avg. 52% 1RM. - Boring But Strong: 70 reps at avg. 62% 1RM. - Second Set Last: 40 reps at ~71% 1RM. - 5x5/3/1 with FSL: 50 reps at avg. 62% 1RM (with 80% training max). And these are only the figures for the first cycle of the program. As you increase the training max over subsequent cycles, the percentages slowly creep up towards higher %1RM, whereas with the RPE training it will remain a constant %1RM if RPE is held constant. Furthermore, you would do extra easier assistance work on top of this, 25-50 reps of pushing, pulling, and core work, which were not counted by Alan.
Forever 5,3,1 has addressed all its critics. You went from using a generalized program to having one specifically tailored for you. Why would you not expect better results? Isn't that the point of a custom program. I like your channel but there is so much SS kool aid and loving on Austin lately man. You built your channel not them.
Ya brah that's it! How could I have been so blind. Jim has built his name on sound principles read one of his books not all the over plagiarized copies of the initial decade old programs floating around on your favorite crossfit forums you might learn a thing about testicular fortitude and lifting.
Hey I know this is an old video, but after your squat top single, then dropping down 20% or 5 reps, wouldnt that only be around an RPE 6? Is that intense enough, seems too easy
Maybe you 5/3/1ers might just tell us normal people what is wrong with Alan's numbers instead of wanting us to buy and read 3 books + blog posts + podcasts and other shit just to "understand" a training routine in literally any comment section of a 5/3/1 critique ever.
@@manuelbergmann9222 Alan here is really only using the very first iteration of 5/3/1 and bringing up low volume. Subsequent modifications to 5/3/1 through the 'Beyond' and 'Forever' books add things like 'first set lasts' and 'jokers', among other things. 5/3/1 is a lot more intricate than what it once was. But it's also difficult to briefly explain in a 5 minute video or a TH-cam comment, just like Alan's program as well.
Manuel Bergmann OK. What Alan is doing is disingenuous because his numbers do not reflect all the work included in the program. Those first three sets in the 5/3/1 template are the core of the program, that is true, but unless you are in a big hurry or you are really depleted by other types of training (like if you are an athlete in a different sport, in that case the bare template with 3 sets only is aptly called "I'm not doing jack shit"), you are not supposed to only do those three sets and go home. That is not what the book says, you would not need a full book if that was all of it. A lot of the information in the book are multiple templates for "assistance work" and that is where the majority of your volume comes from. I don' want to just give out all of his stuff, but one of the templates which is publicly available on his site is called Boring but Big so since you can just google it I do not feel bad about publishing it. What that template basically consists of is following your main three sets with five sets of ten at 60% of your training max on that same lift. So that straight away takes total weekly reps from about 20 to about 70. Another one is First set last 5x5. With that template, you follow your last set with five sets of five repetitions at the weight you used for your fist 5/3/1 set, which will be 65-75% of your training max. That again takes your average weekly reps from about 20 to about 45, which is more than double. If Alan actually ran 5/3/1, then he surely knows better. He must be aware that these templates exist and that he is supposed to use them. I find it hard to believe that someone who likes lifting this much and essentially lifts for a living would only do 3 sets of one movement per day and go home. That just does not make sense. If that indeed is what he did (which I doubt), then it is his own damn fault for doing something that Wendler specifically says is not recommended by him and that it is only useful either occasionally like if you are on the road and just want to do your main lift done in a commercial gym or if you have very little time in which case "it might work for a while". But even if he did in fact train that way whether it was for time reasons or if he was just burnt out and did not have the willpower to do more, his video is still dishonest because nobody who puts an absolute priority on strength gains would read the book and then decide to replicate that. 5/3/1 is a well established and proven program that works and is recommended by many for a good reason. To think that it is as bad as Alan says it is for such an obvious reason and yet nobody has picked up on that until Alan did, that just doesn't make sense. I have no doubt that whatever Alan's coach put together for him yields better results. It stands to reason that a program tailored precisely to an inividuals needs and goals and abilities and weaknesses would do better than a publicly available program which is of course generalized because Wendler does not know who will end up reading it. But because of how popular the program is, it also makes it well worth it for Alan to trash it, because those 3 numbers in the title will get clicks and that is all that counts. He then misrepresents what 5/3/1 is, completely trashes it and when people who don't know any better hear him trash something that according to others is so good, it implies that his programs that he sells must be absolutely awesome, if they make 5/3/1 look bad in comparison. It is a cheap marketing trick. That's all.
@@smolkafilip If we're being honest, yes 531 today addresses these issues, but only because Jim Wendler has made countless addendums to it over the years, because the original program didn't work all that well. I wouldn't say Alan is misrepresenting what 531 is, but simply not discussing the most up to date iteration, he's going by the original template which is still what will come up first if you google it, and if you want the full detail of the program with all the variations that Wendler has added you have to read the books and filter out only what you actually need (Wendler has also written lot of "filler" content, like a gazillion different variations for specific applications that nobody will ever use the program for and which probably don't work as intended at all - don't get me started on the medicine ball throws or weight vest walks, he'd have a very hard time proving how these will make anyone stronger). Having "been there and done that" I'd say 531 is a solid strength program if you're smart with your assistance exercises (especially by doing variations of the main lifts on the alternating days, so as to increase frequency to twice per week instead of only once) and if you use joker sets as that volume at higher intensities is very important and the base template is severely lacking in it.
How often in training should I go 100% of a rep number? Ex if doing 4x6, should aim for 100% of my 6RM? Right now I always aim for 100%, but I haven't made progress in 2 years. Am is my intensity to high? Say 4x6 all my sets are 90-100% of my 6RM.
Thank you for your time making all of these very informative videos. the Professor, building bigger and stronger Americans. could you do a video on improving recovery. what tips can you give us.
Alan, very confusing vid for me,would it have been clearer if you talked in terms of tonnage lifted using 531 vs PRE . Felt like you were comparing apples to oranges, I had a hard time trying to translate one program back to other for a real world comparison. I know your lifts went up but is this because of PRE or tonnage lifted. Is one intensity measured by PRE and the other intensity measured by poundage If it is tonnage for the one than 531 for me makes those adjustments through various means. Also if you went from a 315 work set on squat to a 440 work set in a 2 month period, considering your training level, there is much more than simply switching programs at play here .If I'am missing something , and someone understands what I am getting at, please comment. ALAN THANKS FOR ALL THE GREAT CONTENT . Train on and Untammmmmmmed!
This is an old video, but I just wanted to say that I don't believe that these are good metrics for tracking training volume hypertrophy. Perhaps its different for your case because you may be closer to your genetic limit in terms of how much muscle mass you can put on your frame naturally, but it's the number of hard sets per week, regardless of rep range that determine whether or not hypertrophy is induced. This essentially means that a person that is doing 20 sets of 3 weekly, will have the same hypertrophy as someone who performs 20 sets of 10 weekly provided both are at the same intensity. Tracking both reps and tonnage are useless without using considering intensity as a metric, which is why I don't understand why you even included the total amount of reps in your current program compared to 5/3/1, when it's sets taken close to failure that are important.
Hey Alan, I just started the bridge this week. The rpe still feels a bit strange but having done 5/3/1 for over a year now (without significant progress) I do seem to know my rep ranges. Not doing assistance exercises after my lifts feels also a bit weird but there's an extra day for that. Only thing i want to know is how much rest you take between sets? Because i tend to have done my training session in about 50 minutes.
You known that 5/3/1 was written by a powerlifter (Wendler) which was tired of feeling himself sore, out of shape and unable to perform outside the three lifts? 5/3/1 was designed as a way to retain strenght/progress while handling a low volume program and being able to do other things (cardio, recreational sports, improvements in mobility). Congratulations for your progress, but your high volume program looks like an elite schedule, which is great for competition, but we all known that competition means risking health in order to perform. I'm 6 months into 5/3/1 and what I ilike from it is that doesn't collide in recovery with my other endeavours (doing WODs at Crossfit). Changing to a 5X5 or SS schedule will crush my body, for sure.
5/3/1 is totally too little volume for basically anyone. It's the accessories that matter, which is why it is hard to compare when people just say "5/3/1"
That is the thing, people like me need accessories to grow stronger and to solve sensitivity issues. Doing a shitton of pressing movements and little pulling aside from pull up supersets. It's not really healthy for your shitty posture.
Forte Astro I know I’m late to the show but I made some quality strength gains in three months off of the BBB variation until the lack of horizontal pulling caught up to me and destroyed my shoulders for a solid two months after. You definitely have to add in extra movements to get the most out of it
Alon. Need help. Ran SL 5x5 recently, hit a wall. Switched to madcows. But now hitting a wall again. I weigh about 155 lb. Best squat 275 x 5. My problem is I'm gassed after these workouts. By the time I finish squats I have no energy left for bench/row. I'm thinking of moving to 5/3/1 and giving the 3x a week squats a break. I feel like giving each lift it's own day makes more sense at this point. Plz help
"Why 5/3/1?" Because RIP dislikes it so I need to also. Just fucking with you (kinda). Thoughts on attributing some of your gains to having a coach vs. do it yourself?
I don't recall hearing Rip talk negatively much about it. Rip seems to like Wendler. It's Jordan Feigenbaum that wrote an article about how shit 5/3/1 is lol
Fair enough. And where is that article? Oh right, over on Starting Strength dot com And who created and runs SS? One Mark Rippetoe. Still, I was just fucking around. I think, program aside, that having a coach has probably helped Alan tremendously. Was just curious on his take. Edit: This video really is just like the article. startingstrength.com/article/into-the-great-wide-open-the-texas-method-and-5-3-1
There are numerous other comments that detail good points. He's comparing first week, he's comparing against an older version of 5/3/1 which has, since, been updated, etc. That said, I'm not concerned about 5/3/1...never done it and don't care. I tend to agree more with old Alan: "Your program is not the reason you are stuck in a plateau. You are the reason." - Alan, 2015. There are lots of programs out there that work. And, as repeated previously, I tend to attribute his progress to having a coach. I'm not sure if you are asking me my opinion on whether he states fact or if you are trying to make the point that I am wrong somehow. If you are genuinely asking, I think people cite what looks like facts to back their interest. In this case maybe (MAYBE) it's best for the SS team to sink 5/3/1. Seems a good number of people max out in SS and, instead of going to the Texas method - or potentially hiring a SS coach, move to 5/3/1. Remember the tobacco industry had all kinds of "facts" that smoking was not bad for you. But of course maybe not, maybe Alan is honestly trying to save people time by giving them this info. Big boys and girls can decide that for themselves.
"I think Texas Method is inappropriate for most, and that 5/3/1 is one of the worst programs available." I hardly see that as shitting in it, but okay. Guess they had to make room for "THE BRIDGE".
After the new Q&A (Alan posted) where JF does really shit on Texas Method, I have to agree. I also agree with the rest of that response, but would add - ...or get a coach. Solid points, good discussion. Very rare in YT comment section.
Thanks for the number break down Alan i was considering changing programs to 531. Now i know that higher intensity and higher reps is definitely my direction, i have already lost weight on my bench (1 time a week program lol no suprise) not too sad about it as i have progressed on my squat and dead lift, but who in their rite mind wants to back pedal on any lift. Good input thats nice to hear from someone who actually trains hard we know can be a reliable source.
You can't compare a personalised program to any non-personalised program. If you buy a suit from the Internet, it's probably not going to fit as well as one you got from a tailors after they took all your measurements and made it to fit.
How much strongman were/are you doing now/then? I chose 5/3/1 vs SS because I was doing things other than barbell strength and felt it was easier to recover from. Now that I'm going to be doing a powerlifting meet, I've added in more volume but the frequency seems to be lacking for me as well.
Who the fuck uses 5/3/1 without any of the assistance templates? For example: BBB (Boring But Big) would kick your volume up to 75 reps per week. If you want to squat twice a week, perform the 5x10 part on a different day and use the RPE scale at around 7-8 to make sure every set is productive. Jeez, it's not rocket science.
is it okay to incorporate bodybuilding hypertrophy and volume while doing a powerlifting program? I want to get real strong but still want to do bodybuilding
"I've never seen bench press numbers this low in my entire career?"
Alright, who let him see my routine.
But then he saw mine
Now he’s a believer
Not a trace
Sounds like you suffer from Low B. You need to immediately get on the Barbell Prescription STAT! You can get on it via the video by that name of Barbell Medicine's channel, edited by Alan.
Lol
Guys, remember. If you're already on another program, say 5/3/1 and it's working well for you stay on it until it's not. That was a key point Alan made at the beginning of the video.
The best program is the one you stick to!
@@nomadbound9610 there is wisdom in this comment
He did "5/3/1 I'm not doing jack shit" which isn't even recommend by Jim. This video was hilarious
@@biesman5 why would someone make a progam that they don't recommend?
@@TheLouisianan Jim said that you should only choose that program if you are limited in time, there's no other reason to run it.
I practice Muay Thai but also love going to the gym and I find that 5/3/1 is a good middleground for performance, I make steady progress while also not negatively affecting my main activity, I go 3 days a week and customize the template to allow for exercises that can carry over to the ring... Great video!
So basically if you perform a lift more often with heavier weight you gain more strength. Makes sense to me.
ok so I should max out everything seven days a week, makes sense to me.
@@BT-oj1bn Yeah that's not what he said, but keep being a dumbass it suits you well.
@@erikjlee1 He said basically if you perform a lift more often with heavier weight you gain more strength. What could be more often than seven days a week, 8? What could be heavier than your max, your max +1?
@@bithon5242 I was being facetious. Of course you need rest, but that is diametrically opposed to lifting more often.
@@BT-oj1bn I look at those doing the Bulgarian Methods/Squatting everyday, etc.
Unless you're on steroids (in which case you can get away with training less frequently than natural lifters and being generally stronger), natural lifters need more frequency.
Olympic weightlifters are a good example of this. In order to be better at the Snatch and C&J, they perform these lifts and variations often, along with High Bar Squatting and perhaps Front Squatting.
Hell, I think it was Konstatin Konstantinov (powerlifter who died recently, may he RIP) trained multiple times per day to be awesome at the lifts, including the deadlift.
Edit: after being on The Texas Method doing it 3x per week, doing Beyond 5/3/1 with Joker sets and Down sets with Pause Squats and Pause Benching 4x weekly increased my lifts.
"Your program is not the reason you are stuck in a plateau. You are the reason." - Alan, 2015
"I was doing 5/3/1 this time last year and I wasn't making any progress." - Alan, 2017
Yeah, that shit is dissappointing.
Cggdas such is the pitfall of an all kool-aid diet.
beefsteax I'd frame that a little differently. Alan recently threw out his entire body of knowledge (he literally said to forget everything he has ever said) because he paid into someone else's club and added 10% to one lift. That's not "changing your mind," that's more like joining a new religion. There's nothing wrong with broadening your knowledge base. There is something wrong with deciding this new thing is the only thing now. I've had manybteachers in my life, and one very important thing I learned is that there are many ways to do things well. If your combat instructor says his way is the only way, he probably isn't very good. And that's sad for many of us who learned quite a bit from Alan before he decided that everything he ever thought or said is invalid, because he was already pretty accomplished. New thought in, no room for any other thought.
So you're saying you never learned anything and changed a former opinion you held 2 years ago?
OH SHIT SOMEONE LEARNED STUFF IN TWO YEARS AND CHANGE THEIR MIND OH SHIT WTF OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG
"I'm actually not even a scientist" best line of the video
Keep up the amazing content Alan. Your quality improves every time.
Stop scrolling, friend. I've summed up all the comments for you.
"You did 5/3/1 wrong"
"You did the old method of 5/3/1. It's better now."
"You forgot to do the 1000 reps of assistance work."
"You said something different 3 years ago."
"You should try ."
"But does 5/3/1 and is way stronger than you."
"I live in my mom's basement and have never been to the gym and get human interaction only by posting whiny crybaby comments on TH-cam."
Captain Dan priceless bro haha
well... some of those sentenses you will find under every trainingvideo on youtube :)
So pointing out that he hasn't compare the program as recommended by webdlernisnt valid criticism.....? Eh?
I want to agree with you but Wendler has literally released 2 books to specifically address the same complaints Alan has in this video.
tjwd wendler says to do BBB along side it literally adding 50 reps.
I'm sure strong lifts is on its first draft, nor is starting strength or any other widespread program.
So why not just compare the up to date info to the up to date info?
I first picked up 5/3/1 a couple of years back and even then it was old news that wendler reccomended BBB alongside it, as the article.i came across where he reccomended it wasn't exactly new.
But he doesn't look at BBB
Alan just pretends you do the bare minimum which wendler makes very clear is only really half the program. And Alan doesn't acknowledge that really.
I'm not a huge fan of wendler pre season, I got results on it with a few small tweaks, but I disliked the lack of pulling volume on it quite a lot. It's far from perfect.
I just hate how people who have never read the book think that 5/3/1 means that you only do 5/3/1 sets/reps and you are done... Where are the acessory templates that have you doing 5x10 supersetting benches and pullups and presses and rows at least two times a week and hill sprints and prowler pushes on the off days? there are more than TEN different templates for acessories for different goals. 5/3/1 is just the first exercise and first 20 minutes of the 5/3/1 actual training.
True!!! Could be 5*20 push-ups or dips after press/bench.. low volume lol xD
So true. I'm doing 23 sets per session on 531. Tons of volume.
Yes but all of the accessory templates have you doing sets of 10-20.
This is completely sub optimal for strength.
5/3/1 is essentially a Hypertrophy program with a very small strength component.
Better off doing one of the templates from practical programming for strength training.
I've been doing 5/3/1 for about a year and a half, seeing great progress into an advanced stage. This video kind of misrepresents 5/3/1 by neglecting the fact that 5/3/1 uses supplementary and assistance work to add main life volume . I personally recommend first set last 5x5. FSL 5x5 will change your volume/intensity as follows using Alan's math:
5+ week - 45 reps at %65% 3+ - week 37 reps at ~68% 1+ week - 30 reps at %71%
On top of that, I would suggest some variation of your main lift for an additional heavy ~25 reps a session. (I like 4x6 or 4x8) Since Alan counted variations of the main lift in his math, it is only fair that I do as well. I won't do the intensity math on this because it depends on how intense you want it to be and this comment is getting long. But looking through my training logs I average about ~140 main lift pressing reps a week, which is still less than Alan, but not 4x less. I will note that my average intensity is still a lot lower than Alan's.
That said, I agree with Alan's points about 5/3/1 not having enough volume at sufficient intensity. But you don't need to misrepresent the program to make this case.
I agree. there are dozens of 531 variations, and Alan did the very basic vanilla variation.
Honestly Alan: This video is kind of a let down compared to your usual standards. The 5/3/1 routine you followed is called "I'm not doing jack sh!t" in Wendler's book - and it is for people who have one or two busy/stressed weeks where they don't have time to lift properly - so he recommends doing only the 5/3/1 lifts as opposed to not lifting. The other templates have a ton of assistance exercises which are supposed to be customized to your personal needs (Wendler does have suggestions though, but if you need upper body strength you will focus on this). Some of them also include adding extra volume. (Boring but big is NOT what I am talking about - that is a body building / size building template which will at best prevent you from losing strength).
Later on in "Beyond 5/3/1" Wendler has made two main-changes: 1. If you are a higher intermediate/advanced lifter you should only deload every other cycle (so every 7 weeks) and with higher intensity than originally prescribed. 2. He introduces "joker sets". These sets are for your good days. Lets say you had to do 5 reps with 85% of your training max and got 10 reps. Then instead of stopping do another plus set with 95% - then 105% and so on until you feel like the next set will be impossible. This raises volume on all "good" days drastically.
Anyway: The original 5/3/1 does have its shortcomings - especially the original program, but you are not doing it justice. So you have found a Starting Strength coach that you like who has made you progress with a new program and that is cool. But why present your old program in such an unfair manner? It feels as if you are trying to distance yourself from everything you have done/said in the past to impress him (or the Barbell Medicine crew), and that is very unlike how I have come to "know" you through your content. To quote you on an old video reviewing programs "Every program works if you follow it properly". There is truth in that - so you have already given yourself the answer as to why it didn't work for you.
Just to make thing clear: I am glad you new program is working better for you. I am glad that you like your new coach and seem to be learning new things. I am glad that your business seems to be doing well and you keep uploading (mostly) quality content. But I sure as hell hope you wont stop staying true to yourself - that is a very slippery slope. All the best. -T
Well, Mr. Dr. Feigenbaum, MD made an article about 5/3/1 and Texas Method were he ended up kinda shitting on both, and now it looks like Allan is just making a video based on that. In the article he based his calculations on a 2009 article and just ignored everything Wendler has put out since. Kinda disappointing when he's supposed to represent a scientific sober approach.
Honestly, I think 5/3/1 with Joker sets and FSL plus proper assistance selection, looks very close to what Allan is curently doing in terms of volume and intensity. However, since neither side bothers doing any research they just end up shitting on each other. I'll agree that 5/3/1 doesn't have optimal bench frequency, but the majority of implementations are a lot better than what Allan and his masters is making them out to be.
yep this is what it is ... train under Feigenbaum, then shit on 5/3/1. I have even seen Feigenbaum troll Wendler's twitter multiple times.
I have never trolled Wendler on Twitter. One of his fanboys tweeted both of us at the same time and I replied to both, but never directly at Wendler.
You can read my article Into the Great Wide Open on 5/3/1. There is no variation of it that is still 5/3/1 that is useful. The core of the program is junk.
"The core of the program is junk", and yet you and Alan are now Starting Strength disciples, extolling the mediocrity that is Starting Strength.
One of the most important aspects of 5/3/1 is the accessory work though. My current routine (BBB) has you doing OHP as an accessory to BP and DL to Squat and so on...you do them at 50-60% for 5x10 reps. I also proceed to add 3-4 more accessories per day.
It's working for me (Although I'm not really advanced) and it's really fun. Your week looks like hell though. It sure as hell would be effective.
How many barbells do we need to eat to get to your strength Alan pls make a video about this next
depends on how long you cook it. barbells are vegan and gluten free btw so thank you for saving the planet.
I hear raw is best with avocado smeared along the rim for extra healthy fat to gain lean muscle mass
raw lifting & raw eating. I'm focusing on gaining lean fat at the moment though.
how do you do that and where can i find the mike chang video to teach me it
5x5 but only eat 74% of each one
I feel like the inclusion of Joker Sets and First Set Last (or doing BBB style assistance) takes care of the problems you discussed. Would be really cool to see a follow-up video.
I was thinking the same. Besides, you have to choose wisely your secondary movements. I recomend reading 531 for PL and Beyond 531.
He did for the most part. He said the problem is the total lack of volume at the right intensity and he’s right. FSL does become a significant stressor until the 3rd week and by then the lifter is possibly already detrained. BBB 5x10 is just too low intensity. Yeah it’s hard because it’s 50 reps with low rest periods after the main work but that doesn’t make it productive. It does very little for maximal strength.
Joker sets are a good inclusion but you can’t do them until the anchors which are only the last 3 of every 9 weeks not including deload and even then there isn’t much guidance as opposed to programming singles as the main work with a specific goal in mind.
Honestly if he was doing 5/3/1 with jokers, then the "Boring but STRONG" template (10 sets of 5 at 80%TM) he would have made amazing gains. But for some reason he ran the oldest most outdated and basic version of the program designed for extremely slow but easily reciverable progress and not designed for the most efficient strength gains possible. It's sad really, because there are some extremely good 5/3/1 variations that work insanely well in the Beyond & Forever books. But the standard RPE training we see in most top USAPL lifters works amazingly good as well. Just wish people wouldn't claim 5/3/1 lacks volume/intensity when they haven't read wendlers books and tried variations that include higher volumes and intensities
@@eneserkuvan I’m the worst dude to ask about 531. I saw awful results with it and don’t recommend it for anyone unless they’ve already seen progress on it. I’m currently running the Texas Method 4 day split and think it’s awesome. If you’re into bodybuilding and powerlifting then I would ditch the overhead press or just train it as an accessory and use the extra day as more upper body work. However Texas method really isn’t a bodybuilding program in the slightest but you can definitely throw in a couple accessories if you have the recovery ability.
@@WolfgangLizana I ran 3 or 4 531 variations over the course of 4 months and saw massive strength losses. 531 is certainly not for everyone. It’s very minimal main lift work and too much accessory work. Accessory lifts should not make or break a program for a young intermediate lifter.
In Wendler's books there are many ways to increase the volume: such as boring but big, first set last and many other options to provide supplemental work to the base prpgram...
Isn't Boring But Big 5x10 reps with 50%? That would drastically decrease average intensity. Remember, not all volume is created equal.
How about first set last - 3x5 or 5x5 at 65%, 70% and 75% ?
Wendler's latest work/book has routines with far more supplementary volume than the original programme. 5/3/1 lifts followed by 5x10@65% or 10x5@70% or 5x5@85%.
Alan Thrall Wtf there are Many other ways to incorporate more volume In 5/3/1 ? Programmed assistance exercises for each week.
illcrosstheuniverse Yes but BBB is volume for the sake of volume. The intensity is far too sub maximal.
Is upper body recovery as simple as... smaller muscles, less damage to recover?
You know what this means, dude? CURLS EVERY DAY BRUH.
Actually, biceps really can be trained everyday.
@@NumberOneStirlingite My elbow tendons dont agree
@@madbodhi234 yea elbow tendons cant be trained every day.
@@madbodhi234 What do you mean by elbow tendons? Tendon pain in the elbow area is almost always a triceps tendon issue.
Biceps tendinitis is most common at the shoulder origin.
Greetings from the future. Queue Rich Piana 8 hour anthem.
Alan, fuck the haters. Don't be upset that you have learned new things and are making insane progress. Keep up the good work, man.
Josh Richardson no one is upset he's moved on.
People are upset that he's comparing something that is NOT what webdlernisnt reccomends and calling it 531.
Compare away, but be fair.
531 was awesome I started powerlifting with that program and loved it!
5/3/1 has changed a lot since it was first released. Beyond 5/3/1 introduced a lot of assistance templates, and these templates give extra volume for the MAIN lifts - this is what 'assistance' means in 5/3/1 - compound movements, not accessories. Also, the most recent 5/3/1 book, called 5/3/1 Forever, sells the program as a general athletic program, where it provides many templates for including lifting, assistance work, conditioning, recovery work, and athletic work. It has templates for many different kinds of athletes with different goals. A big part of the program now is periodization - there are 'leader' and 'anchor' templates, which correspond to volume and intensity blocks respectively. It even has a beginner-specific template. Wendler uses 5/3/1 to train high school athletes, similar to Juggernaut Training Systems. 5/3/1 has become more of a philosophy on how to train and a brand with many associated programs/templates; it's not just one program.
Because of the above, I think it's useless and even detrimental to make this comparison video. 5/3/1 is no longer the program that you ran (even though you didn't really run it how it was intended, with all the assistance work). As a result, you're spreading misinformation about the program, which will prevent others from learning more about the programming that Wendler has created.
I am really dissapoint in this video. Alan is one of the best fitness youtubers. alan wasnt even able to find information about program he was running for i dont know how long. He was basically running i aint doing jack shit template (official wendlers template). His data were correct. but misleading. he should change name of the video 5/3/1 I aint doing jack shit.
I thought he was saying "train on time" until today
You're not alone
Now I gotta double check, he’s saying train untamed correct?
It's a common newb untamed groupie affliction. Took me a few videos too.
I was running 5/3/1 for a long time. I was making veeeeeery slow progress.
Now I'm running The Bridge. I'm in the 4th week and my gains sky rocketed. Everyone should try out. The first two weeks are challenging, makes you think on quitting, but then you get used to it.
so what's your review of the bridge? Or u got any better programs you've tried in the last 4 years
@@hariskhalid2323 that aged well! I've dropped it. I'm with a Powerlifting coach since 2018 and I compete through IPF here in Brazil at 120kg class. The best program is to have a coach doing the periodization for you though. Thanks for the shoutout!
Taking an average intensity does not always make a lot of sence. Having a group of people where the one half is 20 y/o and another half with 80y/o and saying that the average age is 50 is true, but does not give is a precise image of how old the people are. Same with intensity. Squating a 1RM and afterward squatting 9 reps at 30% intensity will give you an average of 37%, 10 reps. The next week you squat 10 reps at 50%. Which day was hardest?
The first day.
I dont know a lot about 531, and never plan on doing it, and im a part of the ss "cult" myself, but doing a set of five at 83% and doing two back off sets at 5x65% will give an average of 71%, 15 reps. Lets say another person does 3 sets across of 5 reps at 72% what will cause an adaptation? The first example with the heavy set could be an example of intensity day on The Texas Method. The other one would anly serve as a light day. The light day, (mabye medium on a HLM program) the first example will proberbly cause a bigger adaptation than the second. Of cause it makes no sense to pick out single examples like this. It only makes sense to talk about one week of training, or mabye a month. But my point is that taking the average of the intensity does not always make sense.
Good video Alan. I am the same as you spent years training 531 style and this year starting following Renaissance periodisation and the increase in volume and intensity is doing wonders for me
"My volume is so much higher now, if I discount the 50 reps @70% of the training max every day."
Holy shit, your subs skyrocketed since I last visited your channel! Congrats man, this channel really deserves it.
For those of you who are interested in 531, be sure to buy beyond 531 which is the updated program. This book is better suited for powerlifters because there's many templates that have bench three times a week and squat three times a week. It's also a great read.
Man thanks - I don't give a shit if you're right or wrong. You're making videos and giving your best advice FOR FREE. Your lifts are verified. I'm amused by the usual internet comment wars, but it's bizarre how people who can't do the lifts spend so much time arguing about which program is best. I remember this trash talk from martial arts...guys who never compete can't talk enough!
I'm a tiny intermediate lifter, but I'm confused why people would use 5/3/1 for competition style gains. In the first pages of 5/3/1, Wendler says "I was burned out from competitive powerlifting. I was tired of bench shirts, box squats, bands and being fat...I needed a change - but I didn’t know exactly what I wanted or how I was going to get there. My first order of business was losing weight. I was about 280 pounds, and I wanted to be able to tie my shoes without turning red. I wanted to be able to walk down the street without losing my breath."
It sounds like you want to win matches but not tie your shoes. Kidding, and I'm only getting slow gains off 5/3/1. I'm going to give the Bridge a read and likely try (or work in elements) as even though I'm 49 friggin years old, I feel like maybe I can do more volume (I started "big but boring" a few months ago after plateauing). It's just I never heard of 5/3/1 being used as anything but a lifting strength / life balance MIX.
I'm too broke to afford free
Chill Out Dude Hey, no shame in that. When I was a kid we were too poor to pay attention.
@@shumardi1 I was so poor, in my neighborhood the rainbow was in black&white.
Awesome vid Allan! Nothing speaks louder than mathematics and raw numbers!
Yeah high volume on OHP and bench did the trick for me as well. Following nsuns 5/3/1 LP I finally pushed my bench over 100 kg and OHP over 70 kg and it hasn't stopped improving.
I found the same thing Alan, increased volume and frequency are huge to boost your numbers. This is due to the neural adaptations that happen in our bodies, since the human body is lazy AF and always tries to find was to be more efficient at the tasks to spent less energy, if we set this stress often and in large quantities, is just logical that adaptations would happen faster
For a long time I had a long and complicated lifting program. I was on the ICF with extra stuff, so each day I'd be doing three or four main movements and then accessories, and other random things. After going to the gym for two years or so with this program, my mindset had moved from becoming more aesthetic to appreciating lifting heavy, so I figured I'd try a little powerlifting instead.
After doing a bunch of research on things and watching a lot of Alan's videos, I decided to try the simplest possible program. Every week I have a squat day, bench day and deadlift day. I only do that movement for the entire duration of the gym on that day at an intensity of 70 to 90%. Each week I count together my volume and try to do more next week. No rep schemes, no set amounts, just lifting. I also eat a lot and put effort into getting good sleep.
So far I've gotten to the biggest numbers I've ever seen. When I stall I'll add more variety of movements, but for now it's working pretty well.
I am that first kind of guy (on 531 and I think it's great for me right now) but to be clear: I'm over 40. I have kids and work stress. I'm just getting back into lifting from 5 years off. I'm currently pretty overweight (see previous) and everything is in flux. So the slower progression, lighter weights, and longer recovery really works for me right now. I know full well that eventually I'll hit the end of my linear progression and I'll need to program differently.
tame untrained
Question: Let's say you have 3 sets at RPE8, and you pick 200lb. Set 1 and 2 are fine, but you are pretty sure for set 3, 200lb would mean RPE9. Do you drop weight for that last set?
You adjust the weight so that every set is @8.
If rest times are intentionally lower for example, you would have to decrease weight every set to maintain the @8 RPE.
@@justindankert7725 Thanks home slice
Alan maybe you should give Beyond 5/3/1 another read
Or even the first book.
Wait until you read Forever.
Agree that the meat is in Beyond. I love Forever, though. Some of the tweaks he made to the program are great and I'm amazed at how much he does with 5/3/1.
5/3/1 sounds good on paper, but it's not that effective. It's just not enough work.
Much food for thought, Alan. Thanks and Semper Fi
Pricees
I have just finished my "nsuns 531", I ran it for 6 months and gained 20 lbs to all 4 lifts. Remember I am an intermediate lifter, not newbie gainz, so I can't complain. I switched only because I wanted to experience other program. But I must say, 531 was not the best compared to all the program I have tried, neither the worst. And it actually works.
What’s the best?
Hi Alan , i am currently trying the bridge program . I would like to know , what made your coach, dr.Austin, change your tempo squat. Also what was the replacement of it..?
Many problems with this video, your example of your squat week and the percentages you use would be for day 1 week 1 of the program, you are meant to start light and ramp up at the start of the program. Your squat 5's day 6 months into the program would be far more intense . As for volume and frequency, Wendler has addressed this many, many times. FSL, joker sets, customised assistance work etc... There is a reason this program is insanely popular.
Theoretically that would work great but realistically many lifters who are used to higher volume at a higher intensity would become detrained and see a regression as opposed to progression.
Hey, Alan. Are your squat days the same as your deadlifts as far as volume/intensity?
Damn it, Alan. Now, I have an assignment this weekend. That is to figure out what your saying.
I do legs,push,pull twice every 7 days with a rest day in between each cycle. I go light on the first cycle with more reps for hypertrophy and then heavy on the second cycle for strength. Is it possible to make both strength and hypertrophy gains at the same time like this? Or am i just wasting my time. Its too early for me to tell since i just made this up and have only been using it for 4 days. I use to do push,pull,legs twice every seven days with a rest day on sunday but after almost a year of it going well i began to overtrain and noticed my deadlift and squat maintanaces were getting harder. (my diet wasnt the issue. (i squat and deadlift once a cycle)
Any reply would be cool thanks.
And Im 15 btw idk if it matters.
Personally I've changed 5/3/1 with waves. Basically i do three or four waves of 5/3/1. I agree that basic 5/3/1 has too low volume
Marco Perissinotto that's it thought you're not meant to do JUST the basic 531 program.
Hey alan.
If i do wendler and modify it so i do an exercise that works the same muscles that a squat does for example a split squat, as assistance on deadlift day. And also do a deadlift assistance exercise on squat day. Same with the bench and the overhead press. And also do calisthenics and some casual oly lifts in 1 workout twice a week. Do you think it would be enough volume? Or is it too much and i would overtrain doing it? What do i need to change in case i need to change something?
Please keep in mind that my goal is to be a hybrid athlete(run fast, lift heavy shit, be explosive at jumping and oly lifts , do crazy calisthenics moves like planche and stuff. The whole package realy! Do you think it is possible? If so how would you do it if u were me? Am i on the right track?
I love you Alan, great video! Can I use this to increase my SAT score, though?
Force = Mass x Acceleration
Work = Force x Distance
Power = Work / Time
Intensity = Power / Area
Intensity is not solely defined by the amount of reps you do at a given RPE, but also bar acceleration and time in which you complete the rep. If you're able to double your acceleration on a weight which is only 20% less and complete the work in half the time then the intensity is greater.
531 can be a great program, but you need to perform each rep with maximal force and it lends itself to people who have more type II (fast twitch) muscle fibers.
alan once you told that the first time you followed 5/3/1, you had non-stop gains for a year...
Honest question Alan. Could this be fixed by using the boring but big or 5/3/1 rest pause template and calculating the training max as a higher percentage or just using 90%1RM without the training max calculation? Quick example, using squats, I've done 5/3/1 RP with around double to triple + set reps plus a down set of 20 reps and one more down set of 10 so my volume there is significantly higher than just the base 5/3/1 sets/reps. Intensity will always be lower however using the Training Max calculation so that's a good point.
13:14...I'm actually not even a scientist 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Just found your channel. Great content. Well made videos
So to clarify: would you recommend Austin and Jordan's programs in lieu of the programs you sell on your website?
5/3/1 is not only the minimum sets you do. What about accessories?
I will follow 5/3/1 until I make no gains and then I will try the bridge. Looks pretty good.
He specifically mentioned he wasn't including accessories in his analysis.
He was most likely referring to dumbbell accessories lol.
Chris Adams The reason he excluded the accessory work is because it's not very specific to the barbell movements. It's different movements with different impliments at far lower intensities.
TLDR: Not all volume is equal.
Chris Adams You should ignore it if its unspecific and doesn't have much carryover. But if he did leave out barbell supplementary lifts I think thats wrong.
In Big but Boring you do 5x10 squats and so on. It has carry over. What you say is just wrong. And Alan should have talked about it more.
Love the video format great mixture of info entertainment and simplicity
Can you make a video about how to start training with RPE for those of us that want to do the bridge? Thanks Alan, great content!
The Dacian Prince I've been bro lifting for 3 years, but started the Starting Strength Novice Linear Progression 3 weeks ago. I'm gonna run it as long as possible, then hop to the bridge. I'd recommend the same.
Read the e-book!
he has a new video demonstrating this
100 % true. One of the main issues with the most programmes: No difference in the upper- lower body frequency. I had absolut the same experiences. Great job Allan!
Alan, you should be noted that the 5/3/1 people are doing nowadays is often quite different to the 5/3/1 original. You can address any of those "problems" (intensity, volume etc.) with the new programming. Just to throw an example with more intensity/volume: Building the Monolith.
Lauri Ve could you please link the new 531 please?
Nidhogg check out the Jims forum in Tnation for some quidance. For the complete method you'll need to buy the forever book or log in to his private forum.
Alan, vets, somebody please help me! I'm on week 5 of the 5/3/1, should I keep going or should I change? I was planning on finally getting knee sleeves so I might have to start fresh again, anyways, but should I start fresh with 5/3/1 or what Alan is suggesting? (SN: I have bad knees and I'm doing sumo deadlifts)
You killed me at "cause EVERY day is chest day"
Aside from the good data, I always watch your videos till the end waiting for the train untaaaaaamed
ARGHHH I have been spinning my wheels on 5/3/1. Doing a bit more volume after the main lifts but not enough, apparently. I wish I would have seen this video 7 weeks ago... 5 weeks out from my first competition. Oh well. Always funny and informative. Not a lot of stupid filler. You rock, Alan. Thanks for the advice. Clicking on links now.
dustyutubeify 531 has low volume try candito 6week prog. for 3 cycles and after that try smolov jr. but use the 2nd cycle 1rm for smolov jr.
Thanks Erving Jim Ugsod, I will definitely look into that. First powerlifting meet ahead and my goal is to just not look totally stupid.
I swear you're videos gets better every week :)
Im 17 my birthday was yesterday Im 5'7 and Im 62 kg bw currently running 5/3/1 In two cycles my old deadlift 5 rep max is now my 9 rep max and my technique is also .cut better Im not strong not claiming to be but it worked for me
Benjamin X Are you sure you are an intermediate lifter?? 5/3/1 is for intermediate lifters. If you are still a novice lifter, you should be doing Starting Strength or StrongLifts 5x5, not 5/3/1.
accordingly to most weight to lifts charts Im an intermidiate lifter (my worst lift being the bench but still intermidiate ) I tried starting strenght but made no progression in the bench and dead and my squat and OHP didnt went up that much plus even if it works I found it boring and training for me is the best part of the week not enjoying it was frustrating
Benjamin X If it didn't work when you were a novice, it was your fault, not the program's. You probably didn't eat / sleep enough, so its impossible for the program to work (95% of people who said it didn't work weren't eating / sleeping enough, even if they think they did) , or you were doing other things that were interfering with your recovery (Like doing other exercices, too much cardio, changing the program). SSLP and SL 5x5 are time proven methods that work for novices every time they are performed correctly.
Wagner Bertholdo Burghausen nope I did everything as intended it worked on some lifts becuase I was not as good at them most people that have done this program usually get stucked with the same weights and I was already there when I started therefore it didnt work FOR ME you are completly right that this programs are time proven and I never tried to say they were bad or didnt work just that they didnt work FOR ME
Benjamin X Well, I mean no disrespect to you, but I think if it didn't worked for you, and it worked (and still works) for everybody else, I can only guess you were doing something wrong... probably your form weren't very good at the exercices you didn't improve, and / or you had some recovery issues...
Every novice should be able to make good progress in these programs... novices dont really need specific programs written individually for them (thats for advanced lifters / top level athletes). Mark Rippetoe is the one that says: "you are not a special snowflake". And I think this is True for novices...
Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience, brother. It was nice to chat with you. Keep training, good Luck :)
Sounds like Alan found a program that is giving him the results he's looking for. That is a major deal with any lifter. Progress is tough... and sometimes you feel like nothing is working. At 49 going on 50... I realized that volume is my worst enemy... I can handle intensity but if i over do my volume... i go down hill. So i started a modified conjugate method. Good volume and intensity for me. Is it the end all program? probably not, but i am able to recover in less time while hitting new PR's... so for now... i will keep on keep'n on. Good luck Devil dog... Great Vid. Your editing skills are impressive... much different than in the beginning.
lmao the problem here is that you are assuming people are only doing the main lifts, without assistance exercises, when doing 5/3/1 which isn't even recommended by Jim Wendler in the book? You already know there are labeled templates for assistance exercises for 5/3/1 in the book so why avoid this in your video? I have and am still making amazing results off 5/3/1. I already see people giving 5/3/1 shit in the comments because they are listening to their idol, which is a shame since your are obviously missing out a lot of information about the 5/3/1 program. 13:20 no the different between the numbers doesn't tell shit since the volume on the 5/3/1 is calculated without assistance exercises.
and thats exactly why ist not that good. There is no periodization after your main lift if you dont do it yourself. A program which has periodization on everything you do in it will be more efficient most of the time, because in wendlers 531 you might get a Little lazy on them and think yea I m just going a lil lighter on db press today... . If you program your accessory work yourself with wendler like alphadestiny says in his new Video I think ist pretty much as good as alans program.
Wrong. Alan said at the start that if you're on a different program and it's working then carry on. You spent a paragraph whining because you couldn't be bothered to pay attention to the first couple minutes of the video.
No periodization?? Page 53:
"Programming Your Assistance Work - The Simplest Strength Template
The next few pages is an example 4 week template of how the program will look during a full training cycle. Here are the sets and reps for each lift, for each week.
Week One - 50%x10, 60%x10, 70%x10
Week Two - 60%x8, 70%x8, 80%x6
Week Three - 65%x5, 75%x5, 85%x5
Week Four - 40%x5, 50%x5, 60%x5"
"Like the 5/3/1 program, the sets and reps are varied each week and are given a set percentage for each set."
Why do you just write stuff without doing any research what so ever? These are all literal quotes off his book.
100%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
TheHaiku2 No??? I am saying the video is wrong because he doesnt take the assistance exercises of Wendler 5/3/1 into account??? The point of the comment was not to tell about my progress? Are you dense lol. Not even hard to figure out what I am trying to say with my comment.
Could the training volume have been increased if you used a different 5 3 1 template?
5/3/1 is only a core, schema - You allways can (and You should) add proper accessories, that depends on what You actually need. If You want to increase muscle mass - use "Boring But Big" protocol, if You want to increase strength - You can perform accessories in "5x5" schema. I agree with You - 5/3/1 is average program, but not because low overal volume, but because 5/3/1 is too universal - it gives to many protocols, options, variants, etc...
In my opinion, there is a paradox in 5/3/1 - to compose full program based on this schema, you need some knowledge... but if You already have this knowledge, you probably don't need 5/3/1! ;-)
" if You already have this knowledge, you probably don't need 5/3/1" finally someone gets it
thanks for the advice about people being capable of stressing more the upper body, I plan to do a texas method but only focusing on deadlift, bench press and row on intensity day so I hit almost all my muscles with just 3 lifts following a texas method programming.
Keep making videos about intermediates dude you rock!
can you do a tutorial on RPE? specifically how to utilize it effectively and how to find your numbers via spreadsheet.
nineteen twentyone That spreadsheet is from Austin and Jordan's ebook The Bridge that is available in the description for FREE
I have a weak bench press and have just started a program that is 4 times a week with each day corresponding to a main lift. I have been struggling a lot with my right shoulder being hunched and rounded and have been adding a lot more pulling exercises such as rows/pullups almost every day to try to help this. Would you still recommend pressing more often?
I had the same results with 5/3/1. I think its a great starter program and it gets you use to lifting more from strength than bodybuilding but quickly you need to move on to a more balance and high volume program.
What about assistance work? you dont count that into your total weekly pressing reps? for example 5x5 bench, 4x10 OHP and 4x8 dumbell presses for one day, If the assistance work is pretty heavy?
#1 I'd have to say is Conjugate/Westside.
Christopher Henry Yep. Soon people will realize that.
Who is the bridge for? On the website linked above, it says beginner to intermediate but a few lines later it says intermediate to advanced?
It is for new intermediates. The advanced line is a mistake that needs to be taken out of the ebook.
neandrewthal Understood. Thanks.
Looking Christ-like.
"looking"
beeing*
Alans not black
unknown dude Yes. Christ was a gay, black Jew
Or, alternatively, the vest wearing, jihadi-like look....
Curious if this remains true with Beyond 531, adding 3 joker sets and some FSL or back down sets
Basically my week 1 (5 rep week) has me doing roughly 40 reps at 73.5% twice a week on bench. Feels like good volume, but am I wrong?
In conclusion use a program that works for you.
I am 16 years old and i look for a strength program. Do you recommend your own program or is that a bit to much for someone my age. I have been lifting for 1.5 years.
I was getting weaker by doing a program very similar to the one you’ve started. Went to a much lower intensity and volume program and have been getting dramatically stronger every workout. I guess my point is that change is good.
so on Thursday you did al lthe 4 movement ? top singles 5x5`s..total workout time 3 hours ?
Also could not find any download link for the Bridge
I do 5/3/1 for Powerlifting. Been losing weight too.
It works for what I want to do though.
Same. I do it for strength and aesthetics since it's so flexible in terms of accessories.
I do 5/3/1 with assistance exercises and a first and last rep based on the RPE method
I've been pushed to my training limit this way by adjusting the 5/3/1 nopt only in intensity but also in volume
Exactly we all three probably do it a bit differently yet we still make gains.
Very versatile program.
i do incline and bench and decline bench with 531 on flat bench so it is like bodybuilding.
Just out of curiosity, did you guys start out on a more standard linear program before 5/3/1? This has no bearing on the conversation, just looked like a good place to ask :D
What I don't understand is how this RPE system seems like a fixed value. For example the same weight that was RPE 6 on my first set could turn into RPE 8 on my third set due to fatigue. Do I just not have enough of a baseline established?
Did you really just do the standard 5/3/1 scheme and none of the thousands of templates Wendler has pushed out over the years? And now you wonder why it's not enough volume? I assume you didn't read "Beyond 5/3/1" as it lists tons of possibilities to increase volume, such as First Set Last, Joker Sets, tons of variations of Boring But Big as well as other templates (Full Body, SSS, Strength Challenge, 100 rep challenge, rest pause, frequency project, etc. etc).
Just doing the standard 5/3/1 is refered to as "Not Doing Jack Shit" and is not even recommended by Jim Wendler himself. Don't tell me you didn't know that.
I remember a video of you saying that it's never the programs fault if you don't make any progress, it's always your own fault. Does that apply to everyone but yourself?
What the hell happened to you man? I used to watch your videos religiously but since you're into SS, the quality of your videos has steadily decreased. Very sad.
Michael Schreibeis And doesn’t Allan advocate for Starting Strength nowadays?
JimsHacks I do 5/3/1 with first set last and joker sets on my 1+ week (week 3). If I get more than 2 Reps on my 1+ Set than I’ll perform joker sets... Wendler came out with Forever 531 and there are so many different templates for various training goals. Allan is specifically talking about the basic 531 program but I would love to see an updated video by these TH-camrs who all regurgitate the same “not enough volume” information.
Great response! Couldn't have said it better. Sorry for reviving 5 month old comment.
I’m having a similar experiences recently after returning to 531. I tried vanilla 531 with BBB like 5 years ago and didn’t make much progress. Recently my lifts have been stuck for some time and I began following a training log of someone who was running 531 with joker sets and FSL. Man I can tell you this is exactly what I needed. Turns out I just wasn’t pushing my sets hard enough and had been training too much 5x5, 6x5, 6x3, etc for volume. The way I run it is to just hit the top set of the day and on some movements I do one joker set after and then one high rep set as FSL. Accoessory work is done using lifts that build the main lifts I’m focusing on.
It's Austin Baraki and that other SS guy. I like SS but they're always going on about how 5/3/1 is "not optimal" and Alan picked up on it.
Here are some corrections to the video. I calculated the figures with supplementary work added to the main work.
- First Set Last: 45 reps at avg. 64% 1RM.
- Boring But Big: 70 reps at avg. 52% 1RM.
- Boring But Strong: 70 reps at avg. 62% 1RM.
- Second Set Last: 40 reps at ~71% 1RM.
- 5x5/3/1 with FSL: 50 reps at avg. 62% 1RM (with 80% training max).
And these are only the figures for the first cycle of the program. As you increase the training max over subsequent cycles, the percentages slowly creep up towards higher %1RM, whereas with the RPE training it will remain a constant %1RM if RPE is held constant. Furthermore, you would do extra easier assistance work on top of this, 25-50 reps of pushing, pulling, and core work, which were not counted by Alan.
Forever 5,3,1 has addressed all its critics. You went from using a generalized program to having one specifically tailored for you. Why would you not expect better results? Isn't that the point of a custom program. I like your channel but there is so much SS kool aid and loving on Austin lately man. You built your channel not them.
Ya brah that's it! How could I have been so blind. Jim has built his name on sound principles read one of his books not all the over plagiarized copies of the initial decade old programs floating around on your favorite crossfit forums you might learn a thing about testicular fortitude and lifting.
Hey I know this is an old video, but after your squat top single, then dropping down 20% or 5 reps, wouldnt that only be around an RPE 6? Is that intense enough, seems too easy
The 5/3/1 books address All this
Maybe you 5/3/1ers might just tell us normal people what is wrong with Alan's numbers instead of wanting us to buy and read 3 books + blog posts + podcasts and other shit just to "understand" a training routine in literally any comment section of a 5/3/1 critique ever.
Manuel Bergmann facts. I ran 5/3/1 for about 8-9 cycles and felt I didn’t get stronger one bit.
@@manuelbergmann9222 Alan here is really only using the very first iteration of 5/3/1 and bringing up low volume. Subsequent modifications to 5/3/1 through the 'Beyond' and 'Forever' books add things like 'first set lasts' and 'jokers', among other things. 5/3/1 is a lot more intricate than what it once was. But it's also difficult to briefly explain in a 5 minute video or a TH-cam comment, just like Alan's program as well.
Manuel Bergmann OK. What Alan is doing is disingenuous because his numbers do not reflect all the work included in the program. Those first three sets in the 5/3/1 template are the core of the program, that is true, but unless you are in a big hurry or you are really depleted by other types of training (like if you are an athlete in a different sport, in that case the bare template with 3 sets only is aptly called "I'm not doing jack shit"), you are not supposed to only do those three sets and go home. That is not what the book says, you would not need a full book if that was all of it. A lot of the information in the book are multiple templates for "assistance work" and that is where the majority of your volume comes from.
I don' want to just give out all of his stuff, but one of the templates which is publicly available on his site is called Boring but Big so since you can just google it I do not feel bad about publishing it. What that template basically consists of is following your main three sets with five sets of ten at 60% of your training max on that same lift. So that straight away takes total weekly reps from about 20 to about 70. Another one is First set last 5x5. With that template, you follow your last set with five sets of five repetitions at the weight you used for your fist 5/3/1 set, which will be 65-75% of your training max. That again takes your average weekly reps from about 20 to about 45, which is more than double.
If Alan actually ran 5/3/1, then he surely knows better. He must be aware that these templates exist and that he is supposed to use them. I find it hard to believe that someone who likes lifting this much and essentially lifts for a living would only do 3 sets of one movement per day and go home. That just does not make sense. If that indeed is what he did (which I doubt), then it is his own damn fault for doing something that Wendler specifically says is not recommended by him and that it is only useful either occasionally like if you are on the road and just want to do your main lift done in a commercial gym or if you have very little time in which case "it might work for a while". But even if he did in fact train that way whether it was for time reasons or if he was just burnt out and did not have the willpower to do more, his video is still dishonest because nobody who puts an absolute priority on strength gains would read the book and then decide to replicate that.
5/3/1 is a well established and proven program that works and is recommended by many for a good reason. To think that it is as bad as Alan says it is for such an obvious reason and yet nobody has picked up on that until Alan did, that just doesn't make sense. I have no doubt that whatever Alan's coach put together for him yields better results. It stands to reason that a program tailored precisely to an inividuals needs and goals and abilities and weaknesses would do better than a publicly available program which is of course generalized because Wendler does not know who will end up reading it.
But because of how popular the program is, it also makes it well worth it for Alan to trash it, because those 3 numbers in the title will get clicks and that is all that counts. He then misrepresents what 5/3/1 is, completely trashes it and when people who don't know any better hear him trash something that according to others is so good, it implies that his programs that he sells must be absolutely awesome, if they make 5/3/1 look bad in comparison. It is a cheap marketing trick. That's all.
@@smolkafilip If we're being honest, yes 531 today addresses these issues, but only because Jim Wendler has made countless addendums to it over the years, because the original program didn't work all that well. I wouldn't say Alan is misrepresenting what 531 is, but simply not discussing the most up to date iteration, he's going by the original template which is still what will come up first if you google it, and if you want the full detail of the program with all the variations that Wendler has added you have to read the books and filter out only what you actually need (Wendler has also written lot of "filler" content, like a gazillion different variations for specific applications that nobody will ever use the program for and which probably don't work as intended at all - don't get me started on the medicine ball throws or weight vest walks, he'd have a very hard time proving how these will make anyone stronger).
Having "been there and done that" I'd say 531 is a solid strength program if you're smart with your assistance exercises (especially by doing variations of the main lifts on the alternating days, so as to increase frequency to twice per week instead of only once) and if you use joker sets as that volume at higher intensities is very important and the base template is severely lacking in it.
How often in training should I go 100% of a rep number? Ex if doing 4x6, should aim for 100% of my 6RM?
Right now I always aim for 100%, but I haven't made progress in 2 years. Am is my intensity to high? Say 4x6 all my sets are 90-100% of my 6RM.
Thank you for your time
making all of these very informative videos.
the Professor, building bigger and stronger
Americans.
could you do a video on improving recovery.
what tips can you give us.
Alan, very confusing vid for me,would it have been clearer if you talked in terms of tonnage lifted using 531 vs PRE . Felt like you were comparing apples to oranges, I had a hard time trying to translate one program back to other for a real world comparison. I know your lifts went up but is this because of PRE or tonnage lifted. Is one intensity measured by PRE and the other intensity measured by poundage If it is tonnage for the one than 531 for me makes those adjustments through various means. Also if you went from a 315 work set on squat to a 440 work set in a 2 month period, considering your training level, there is much more than simply switching programs at play here .If I'am missing something , and someone understands what I am getting at, please comment. ALAN THANKS FOR ALL THE GREAT CONTENT . Train on and Untammmmmmmed!
This is an old video, but I just wanted to say that I don't believe that these are good metrics for tracking training volume hypertrophy. Perhaps its different for your case because you may be closer to your genetic limit in terms of how much muscle mass you can put on your frame naturally, but it's the number of hard sets per week, regardless of rep range that determine whether or not hypertrophy is induced. This essentially means that a person that is doing 20 sets of 3 weekly, will have the same hypertrophy as someone who performs 20 sets of 10 weekly provided both are at the same intensity. Tracking both reps and tonnage are useless without using considering intensity as a metric, which is why I don't understand why you even included the total amount of reps in your current program compared to 5/3/1, when it's sets taken close to failure that are important.
I agree. He also doesnt factor in the assistance that wendler reccomends and is very narrow minded
Hey Alan, I just started the bridge this week. The rpe still feels a bit strange but having done 5/3/1 for over a year now (without significant progress) I do seem to know my rep ranges. Not doing assistance exercises after my lifts feels also a bit weird but there's an extra day for that. Only thing i want to know is how much rest you take between sets? Because i tend to have done my training session in about 50 minutes.
Your training is very similar to the training I get through mike Tuchscherer
mike uses more volume though
Mike T is the man
Jordan was coached by Mike a one point
You known that 5/3/1 was written by a powerlifter (Wendler) which was tired of feeling himself sore, out of shape and unable to perform outside the three lifts? 5/3/1 was designed as a way to retain strenght/progress while handling a low volume program and being able to do other things (cardio, recreational sports, improvements in mobility). Congratulations for your progress, but your high volume program looks like an elite schedule, which is great for competition, but we all known that competition means risking health in order to perform. I'm 6 months into 5/3/1 and what I ilike from it is that doesn't collide in recovery with my other endeavours (doing WODs at Crossfit). Changing to a 5X5 or SS schedule will crush my body, for sure.
5/3/1 is totally too little volume for basically anyone. It's the accessories that matter, which is why it is hard to compare when people just say "5/3/1"
That is the thing, people like me need accessories to grow stronger and to solve sensitivity issues. Doing a shitton of pressing movements and little pulling aside from pull up supersets. It's not really healthy for your shitty posture.
Forte Astro I know I’m late to the show but I made some quality strength gains in three months off of the BBB variation until the lack of horizontal pulling caught up to me and destroyed my shoulders for a solid two months after. You definitely have to add in extra movements to get the most out of it
Alon. Need help. Ran SL 5x5 recently, hit a wall. Switched to madcows. But now hitting a wall again. I weigh about 155 lb. Best squat 275 x 5. My problem is I'm gassed after these workouts. By the time I finish squats I have no energy left for bench/row. I'm thinking of moving to 5/3/1 and giving the 3x a week squats a break. I feel like giving each lift it's own day makes more sense at this point. Plz help
"Why 5/3/1?" Because RIP dislikes it so I need to also. Just fucking with you (kinda). Thoughts on attributing some of your gains to having a coach vs. do it yourself?
I don't recall hearing Rip talk negatively much about it. Rip seems to like Wendler. It's Jordan Feigenbaum that wrote an article about how shit 5/3/1 is lol
Fair enough. And where is that article? Oh right, over on Starting Strength dot com
And who created and runs SS? One Mark Rippetoe. Still, I was just fucking around. I think, program aside, that having a coach has probably helped Alan tremendously. Was just curious on his take.
Edit: This video really is just like the article. startingstrength.com/article/into-the-great-wide-open-the-texas-method-and-5-3-1
There are numerous other comments that detail good points. He's comparing first week, he's comparing against an older version of 5/3/1 which has, since, been updated, etc. That said, I'm not concerned about 5/3/1...never done it and don't care. I tend to agree more with old Alan: "Your program is not the reason you are stuck in a plateau. You are the reason." - Alan, 2015. There are lots of programs out there that work. And, as repeated previously, I tend to attribute his progress to having a coach. I'm not sure if you are asking me my opinion on whether he states fact or if you are trying to make the point that I am wrong somehow. If you are genuinely asking, I think people cite what looks like facts to back their interest. In this case maybe (MAYBE) it's best for the SS team to sink 5/3/1. Seems a good number of people max out in SS and, instead of going to the Texas method - or potentially hiring a SS coach, move to 5/3/1. Remember the tobacco industry had all kinds of "facts" that smoking was not bad for you. But of course maybe not, maybe Alan is honestly trying to save people time by giving them this info. Big boys and girls can decide that for themselves.
"I think Texas Method is inappropriate for most, and that 5/3/1 is one of the worst programs available." I hardly see that as shitting in it, but okay. Guess they had to make room for "THE BRIDGE".
After the new Q&A (Alan posted) where JF does really shit on Texas Method, I have to agree. I also agree with the rest of that response, but would add - ...or get a coach. Solid points, good discussion. Very rare in YT comment section.
Thanks for the number break down Alan i was considering changing programs to 531. Now i know that higher intensity and higher reps is definitely my direction, i have already lost weight on my bench (1 time a week program lol no suprise) not too sad about it as i have progressed on my squat and dead lift, but who in their rite mind wants to back pedal on any lift. Good input thats nice to hear from someone who actually trains hard we know can be a reliable source.
That's what 531 is all about Alan just can't read.
You can't compare a personalised program to any non-personalised program.
If you buy a suit from the Internet, it's probably not going to fit as well as one you got from a tailors after they took all your measurements and made it to fit.
How much strongman were/are you doing now/then?
I chose 5/3/1 vs SS because I was doing things other than barbell strength and felt it was easier to recover from.
Now that I'm going to be doing a powerlifting meet, I've added in more volume but the frequency seems to be lacking for me as well.
Who the fuck uses 5/3/1 without any of the assistance templates? For example: BBB (Boring But Big) would kick your volume up to 75 reps per week. If you want to squat twice a week, perform the 5x10 part on a different day and use the RPE scale at around 7-8 to make sure every set is productive. Jeez, it's not rocket science.
is it okay to incorporate bodybuilding hypertrophy and volume while doing a powerlifting program? I want to get real strong but still want to do bodybuilding