Negative Core Belief Schema & Toxic Shame: Part 1
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ธ.ค. 2020
- In part one of this two-part mini-series, Lana Seiler (MSW, LCSW, Clinical Manager - Traumatic Stress Program at APN) dives into the idea of negative core belief schemas and toxic shame.
In this episode, Lana answers questions like:
What is a negative core belief schema?
Why do they develop?
What is the difference between shame and toxic shame?
How do negative core beliefs hold us down?
How can even well-intended parenting leave simple wounds with complex impact?
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Click here for part 2: • Negative Core Belief S...
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Just starting to address shame. I'm 57 and 11 years sober...im almost overwhelmed by what's coming up.
Wow, congratulations on your sobriety! That's quite a feat, you should be very proud. Shame can be remarkably toxic and Lana does a really wonderful job helping people to understand why they feel the way they do. If you ever want to talk to our team or Lana in particular, please reach out. We'd love to talk to you.
👍👍
You can do it💕
I'm working on this as well most of our parents problems were passed on to us and their beliefs.
Self-love and self acceptance are humanism.
But we're much more than that we are so here on a journey and sometimes we have to go to the trauma to look back and see the blessings. All the best
@@1957712 true... thank you
1:30 "Shame is the only emotion powerful enough to disrupt proximity-seeking." WOAH.
So glad you enjoyed this video! Thank you for your viewership and support.
My exact reaction too
Bingo. Amazing little kids we were to create this powerful enough emotion to disrupt this instinctive drive. WOAH
Emotional neglect can also create toxic shame.
100%
"I agree." - Lana
"You need that person and that person's a threat" wow, that really hit. Is this why I now only am attracted to threats and can't stay in healthy relationships? 😅
Making these connections is what gives us the power to make changes. It's possible your attachment system has been organized around the unpredictability of your primary caregivers. It would explain why consistent "healthy" romantic partners could feel uncomfortable. Slow and steady work on self-validation and adjusting your attachment style with a therapist!
I remember when I was a child something happened at school and I wanted to talk to my dad about it….can’t remember what it was now but I remember he started yelling at me and telling me it was all my fault, whatever happened at school. The worse was my mother asking me afterwards why I kept bothering him with idiotic issues when I know he is busy. That is one example of many similar ones…So whatever happened, it was all my fault…everything. Looking back now I can see how screwed up that was and no wonder I grew up with a sense of shame of myself …i was constantly told I “should have known” whatever they thought I should have known, never explained it to me. Fast forward 40 years and I still feel in that way and even though I am aware of it, I can’t shake it off.
hugs
this sounds so familiar. I feel you
Me three. So unfair. I almost think that actual physical abuse is better understood and sympathised with than these damaging but hard to quantify experiences of being shamed or unprotected. Like we get told to get over it and never get heard but nobody would dare say that to a sexual abuse survivor. We feel similar feelings of shame and unworthiness.
@@ravenspace true…physical abuse is more “real” for most people than emotional and verbal abuse, which may be more prevalent but equally damaging.
thanks for sharing that. I can relate. I'm 38 and just started to look inside at what is going on. no one ever did before, and I'm sure the mask I used to hide my shame would totally ignore and dismiss anyone from going there, not that they insisted on knowing how I felt.
“What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” never resonated with me. It always comes from the mouths of the proud, or at best the ignorantly humble. That’s like saying a wounded soldier on the battlefield is stronger than before he was wounded. Instead, it should be “what doesn’t kill you makes you wounded.“
Stress that is within our ability to cope at different developmental stages over the lifespan does make us stronger. This depends on the severity of the threat, how robust our coping strategies are, and our age. What makes stress traumatic is when it overwhelms our ability to cope and resource ourselves. Factors involved are stress in early life - very likely to overwhelm because we have learned very few coping strategies (hence the primitive dissociative coping coming online); In adulthood, if we haven’t developed strong healthy coping methods, we would be more vulnerable to stress being traumatic and some things are just overwhelming for anyone’s coping ability. Traumatic stress doesn’t make people stronger. However, working through traumatic stress can lead to post-traumatic growth.
I once read: what doesn’t kill you makes you humble.
What dosen't kill you CAN make you stronger, but if the wound is never properly treated and healed then it will slowly kill you.
@@mikey3666hi its been 3 yrs help
How.about.the.saying.they.say.in.12step.groups...abe.lincoln.says.every.person.can.be.as.happy.as.they.make.up.there.mind.to.be..the.most.stupid.slogan.i.have.ever.herd.in.my.life.tell.my.wounded.hurt.inner.child.that.bullshit.tell.mental.peole.that.stuff.see.how.quick.that.works.never.
6:28 adult hood "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger."
6:49 "if we experience things that are overwhelmingly stressful.. where we feel we aren't good enough for our parents.. it creates inherent vulnerability.. which we have to deal with later on in life."
Sometimes in opposition to non diagnosed there is "OVER diagnosed"... constantly being taken to doctors and therapists each with a different system, being treated differently, discrimination, being shamed
"Yes, I hear that. It’s helpful to find providers who are knowledgeable on PTSD and attachment injury. This is meant to be informational only so locating a provider is important." - Lana
Such an important topic. I have the feeling that popular topics in psychology today are things like well-being, positive mindset, low self-esteem, while negative core beliefs and unhealthy shame are somewhat ignored. Thank you for making these videos and putting the info out there!
You're so welcome! We're very proud to bring clarity to some of the more difficult topics. Talking openly about these issues helps dismantle the stigma around them.
I agree! Often time psychology, mental health and behavioral health can get too focused on solution based methods without looking at the etiology
5:57 "the parent who has some of their own unaddressed sounding. . Extra pressure put on the child."
You are an excellent presenter! Clear, relatable, informative, and uplifting 😊
What does this shame look like? I grew up with a mom high on the narcissist scale. I have a lot of perfectionistic tendencies. OCD tendencies (and no, I don't mean like cleaning like crazy, I mean lots of repetitive rituals). I have passions that want to share with others through social media, but a painful insecurity holds me back. I can't even stand to look at my posts when not liked by many, because it only seems to validate that im not an interesting person. I struggle to speak up in class as I always feel the things I say are just ridiculous or stupid. I overthink when interacting with people. Overall I'm highly critical of myself.
I always recommend seeing a therapist and psychiatrist because people are unique and I can’t know all of the ins and outs of your particular situation. We are all a combination of biology and environment. Generally, being shamed, belittled, undervalued, or ridiculed as children it sets us up to feel like a disappointment to others and/or to by hypercritical of ourselves as adults. This can be the source of self-consciousness, self-judgment and the like. Sometimes ritualistic OCD can be a way of having control when things feel totally out of control in our environment as kids. Then these rituals can carry on even after we have more agency in our lives.
I'm in PDS (w Thais Gibson) and there are a fair number of members with this sort of experience, their are courses for this + discussions in the interactive webinars. I wonder if you might find it helpful. Esp the technique they teach on reprogramming the belief - start looking for evidence you are interesting - start small (maybe seen & understood) to counter the brain searching for opposite.
I feel like a better word for “healthy shame” is “guilt”. I don’t really believe there is such thing as “healthy” shame. Shame is an identity belief. You actually believe you are something bad/something is wrong with who you are. Guilt is an action belief. You believe you did something bad and you feel bad for it. I don’t believe any amount of shame in any given context is healthy. Even if we did something terrible, it does not mean that we ARE terrible. I also feel it’s very important to differentiate the two. Because once someone now believes there is such thing as “healthy shame”, especially if they already have a negative view of themselves, their subconscious is now just going to have a field day labeling all of their shame as “healthy shame”, convincing them that they should feel that way because they deserve to. I just feel like this type of language and definition could potentially do more harm than good for people in the long run.
"Hi Zak! Yes, there is the great shame debate. A lot of my friends and colleagues hold the same view that shame is bad, and guilt is ok. For many years I also identified shame as the “I am bad” and guilt as the “I did something bad”. Then I heard a discussion on the difference between guilt and shame being more about who sees us or knows that we acted outside of our value system. For example, let’s say I stole something. Guilt comes because I know I stole something. Shame might come about if I am caught, and others know I stole something. This concept goes a bit further and shows how shame can (sometimes) be a stronger deterrent for those of us who are less affected by guilt to not be offensive. This is due to the power of social rejection. There is no doubt that shame is a terrible feeling to experience. If we are looking at it as the heavy hitter for behavior modification it sort of needs to be super uncomfortable. Its use is to help us stay within social norms and thus keep us from getting voted off the island. As I mentioned in this clip, if we carry a toxic shame core from childhood, any shame is destructive and unbearable. This might be what you’re referring to as the “negative view of themselves” and the subconscious going hog wild with the “healthy shame” stamp of approval. As a balanced, healthy adult, my humble opinion is a smidge of shame if we act poorly in company of some kind is not the end of the world. It might help us behave better. But I am aware not everyone shares this opinion and certainly not everyone has to! Different views are what keep these conversations interesting." - Lana S.
Completely agree with you.
@@rahawa774😊
Thank you so much for putting this together. It’s so true that as adults we need a little stress to get better at things and to become stronger people but it’s not the same for children. Stressful situations and constantly experiencing emotional distress is so damaging for them.
"Hi, yes, our capacity for stress increases as we get older and have a stronger coping ability. As little ones we can and do experience stressors that are healthy as long as it’s developmentally appropriate. For example, learning to walk is stressful! If our caregiving system helps us manage that stress, it’s a normal part of development. It gets messy when our caregiving systems can’t or don’t do that. This is meant to be informational only so locating a provider is important." - Lana
This is so helpful. In the past, I recognized the basic thread of this in my life, but not the layers of what being unsafe with a parent, layered with the demand for perfection and high performance, layered with relationships that perpetuate this have caused in my life. Thank you.
So, so glad this helped you. You put it so well. There are always layers. We commend you for seeking understanding of all the things that come up! Glad you enjoyed.
We have such a similar journey; best of luck to you
You explained this so perfectly
I'm so glad you took the time to watch! Thank you for the support!
I wish I saw this before I ruined my life
It's never too late to break cycles and make changes!
That's an interesting way to frame shame, that it keeps us from going back to the person that is harming us. I've never heard that before. I will need to sit with and ponder that for a while.
What has made sense to me is the exact opposite. That the child takes on the core negative beliefs because they are dependent on the parents and can't entertain the possibility that their caregivers will be unable to meet his/her needs. The child believes whatever is going on is not because there is something going on with the parents, but with him/her because the opposite would be too scary. So the shame keeps the child going back to the parents to preserve life.
What you're is saying is true. Kids do take on the shame, fault, or blame because the idea of being abandoned is too terrifying. Shame doesn’t necessarily make a child leave the home or an abusive parent forever. It’s part of what can cause disorganized attachment - the come to, run away, impossible dilemma. Shame is powerful enough to interrupt proximity seeking temporarily to increase the chances of surviving a violent caregiver. When mommy or daddy is raging shame and fear kicks in to make the child hide away. A child will usually get the strong proximity-seeking drive again and try to get nurturing. After a while, the drive for attention can die out in severe cases. - Lana S.
@@APNLodge ok. Thank you for sharing that with me. May you be well :)
You've just articulated something that I am struggling with, so well. I cried while listening to this.
We're so glad that you were able to find and watch this. If you found this helpful, you may enjoy Therapy Unboxed with Lana Seiler, a podcast we produce with Lana hosting the discussions. Episodes are available on our youtube channel, Apple podcasts, and Spotify!
@@APNLodge I will definitely be tuning in. Thank you.
i cried too! way to start my day! i'm a bag of emotions, lately, but know i need to process things and hopefully it's part of my growth and development of resilience
What's interesting was dealing with this personally, working on it then realizing that many people you meet have dealt with or are dealing with it. Certain cultural beliefs i think make this a problem for many people.
Yes I would definitely agree with you. Great point.
I struggle with this because I am too old to feel these child feelings and then it makes my shame worse.
It takes practice to get in touch with the feelings associated with our younger parts of self. Doing things that awaken our younger selves can help. Finger painting, jigsaw puzzles, coloring, dancing, and similar activities are ways we can get in touch with our younger selves and do some healing.
Perfectly explained and succinct. Thank you.
Thank you for watching! Lana does an excellent job both as a therapist and as an industry resource.
This has opened my eyes to so many things. THANK YOU!
We're so glad you found this helpful! If you haven't already, you should check out Lana's podcast "Therapy Unboxed with Lana Seiler" available on apn.com/podcasts or Apple or Spotify!
this is valuable information, thanks for sharing it with us
You're so welcome! Thank you for watching and for the support!
So good and insightful 💕
Thank you! Lana does a really excellent job of explaining and listening. We hope it helped you!
Thanks you, so much. Your explanation is very clear. Every time I heard about toxic shame it leaves me more doub how it happen? This is the most clear explanation I got.
Thank you❤
2:43 Yes, I am glad you said something b/c I did steal from my Mom - When I was in my addiction, I can also say I have had Core Beliefs that are or where Negative, they can change I am so happy that there is time for change.
Thank you so much for sharing. It is so common to receive some core beliefs from our parents - some good and some bad. It certainly takes hard work to reset those core beliefs and undo some shame, but it is absolutely worth it. You've got this!
I have childhood pattern that if my parents are so sad I feel shame like because there is beliefs it's because of me they are sad how can I change this one ...later in adult life if anyone was sad I feel shame ..plz help
Ok so first, I recommend seeing a licensed clinician who works with family of origin issues. There are so many details and facts about the situation that I don’t know, I can’t speak directly to this question. I can only speak to it in a general sense.
Generally, egocentrism means that part of a child’s natural development includes them assuming they are responsible for all that happens around them, including the bad things. One theory for why this is highlights the fact that it is likely intolerable for a little child to conceive that their caregiver might “not be ok” or could be “wrong”. It’s mildly more tolerable for them to believe that anything that goes “wrong” is their own fault. This makes some sense when we think about the fact that if it’s the child’s fault the child has a tiny bit of power (i.e. if I am a better boy mommy won’t be sad all the time). Whereas, if it’s truly something wrong with mommy there is absolutely nothing the child can do about that, and because a child is completely dependent on mommy that’s utterly terrifying.
In developmental theory, egocentrism starts to wane at about 7 years old. However, in practice, we see these beliefs of “it’s my fault” get embedded and can last into adulthood. The overall egocentric stage has passed and we no longer walk around irrationally thinking EVERYTHING is because of us but we very often end up carrying the underlying belief that specific bad things that happened are our fault even if it doesn’t make adult rational sense - child sexual abuse is a good example.
So, the shame and guilt that’s experienced whenever mom is sad harkens back to when, in early childhood, mom’s sadness could be seen as a threat to safety and was imprinted as a “learning” and sticks with us. It can be that this shame feeling then translates to anyone feeling sad in adulthood, albeit illogical. These beliefs are notoriously hard to shake. - Lana Seiler, MSW, LCSW
Lovely video.. so calming and informative …🇮🇪
We're so glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for watching. We have lots of new content publishing regularly so stay tuned if you found this video helpful.
Needing help from the person who is a threat - it's given me nightmares.
Great video
Thank you! Lana does an excellent job!
thankyou 🙏☮
You're very welcome! Lana does an incredible job and we're glad you enjoyed this!
👌💖 So true your message💪🏻
We're glad you enjoyed!
Yes this is me
We're so sorry to hear that you feel this way, if you want help learning to heal from toxic shame we're here to help.
I need so much help with this. I cannot connect with anyone anymore. I have never felt more alone in my life, I get the most disgusting looks from women even when I give a smile. I feel like the biggest outcast.
We're so sorry you're feeling this way. Shame is a powerful and toxic response that's tough to understand and live with. Our team, Lana included, are here to help you move forward. Reach out when you're ready. We believe in you!
Both my parents were professors, my dad a high functioning alcoholic/overt narcissist type and my mom the enabler/codependent- she was the sweep it under the rug type. Academics were in highly valued and my sister (who was 3 years older) was very smart and advanced. I struggled with math and spelling and needed tutoring. I didn’t do well with on standardized tests. My sister would tell me that I was stupid and that I wasn’t good enough for my family,. My dad favored my sister and really didn’t take any interest in me at all. I thought this was evidence that she was right but I now realize as an adult that he was dealing with his own issues. Either way, it was very painful for me . Being in education you’d think my mom would have tested me for learning disabilities but it wasn’t until my 30’s that I was officially diagnosed with dyslexia. That toxic shame is deeply embedded in my beliefs and has been hard to navigate as an adult. Thanks for your video :)
We're so glad you connected with and found value in this video. Thank you for sharing your experience. By continuing to discuss topics like toxic shame, we bring awareness and support to others who may be struggling or feeling alone. If you enjoyed this video, we highly encourage you to check out our new podcast Therapy Unboxed with Lana Seiler. You can find it here on our TH-cam page or you can listen to it on Apple and Spotify! Lana is a phenomenal clinician and she has brought expert guests on to her show to discuss topics like this for continued educational purposes and for family members who want to better understand concepts in the health and wellness field.
@@APNLodge will do thank you
It’s very disorienting the randomness of the triggering.
It doesn’t matter where you are or what you’re doing.
Like you’ll disassociate in the middle of a job interview or while your being intimate with you lover or you’ll forget skills that you’ve been practicing for years.
Most of the time after all the stress you’ll want to go home and when you arrive nothing tastes or feels the same.
Like orange flavoring versus eating a real piece of fruit.
Hi, yes it can be very disorienting! One of the things I talk with my patients about is not making ‘’enemies” with ourselves. I know the symptoms are intrusive and frustrating. I find that doing our best to stay self-compassionate can be helpful. It might be helpful to do some “parts work” in therapy if possible to help you increase internal awareness and communication. ~Lana S.
@@APNLodge
I’m not sure what “parts work” is I know for certain that these issues are an all hands on deck kind of situation.
Internal family systems is a form of parts
Work. 😊
This is me sadly.
It's ok to feel this way, you're not alone! If you want to talk to someone about where you're at you can give us a call anytime at (310) 579-6169.
Do you have a transcript of these two videos? I'd like to share with someone who does not like to watch or listen to videos and more comfortable reading.
I can find out!
This is a brilliant video
Thank you! We're so glad you enjoyed the content. If you haven't had the chance, please check out Lana's podcast "Therapy Unboxed with Lana Seiler" available on apn.com/podcasts, Apple or Spotify!
I am a victim of this
If you're struggling with toxic shame our team is here to help you! Give us a call when you're ready. 🙏
So how do we deal with this?
Reconsolidation trauma work with a good therapist
"Great question. The short version is increasing awareness, this video and other research could be helpful. Then seeking mental health treatment with someone who specializes in attachment injury to help work with your unique experiences and symptoms would be my recommendation. This is meant to be informational only so locating a provider is important." - Lana
My mom likes to tell me that every single family is dysfunctional and she normalizes it. Also when I was talking to her about being molested she told me every girl has been molested. And it seemed like it didn't even faze her😢
*This is not clinical advice* One of the challenges with embarking on a healing journey is that often our family does not join us. I don’t know the specifics of the relationship you have with you mother or her history so I can only speak in general terms. It’s common for a caregiving system to normalize abusive behavior if the behavior is, well, “normal” in that system. For example, if the family system has generational trauma, members will see abuse as a “normal” part of the family experience and not respond in validating ways. Additionally, if a member of the family system has experienced abuse and it was never validated or addressed, that member of the family might be triggered by finding out the abuse is continuing. The reaction to the trigger might be avoidance and dismissiveness. Breaking the cycle is a gift to future generation. - Lana S.
👍👍
5:50
Football coach in the family? 😊
Haha love it!
Doesn't Christianity influence our core beliefs - I was told age 6 I wasn't worthy of God's love without Jesus.
Turns out he isn't worthy of my love I could never get over his Old Testament rampage
Yes! Absolutely our religion, culture and socioeconomic status can influence our core beliefs
The best religions or ways of life are those that are based not in fear, but rather in peace and love.
👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌👌👌❤❤
So glad you enjoyed it! Lana does a really spectacular job and we're very proud to have her on the APN Team.
The trick is to never need anything.
I hear. That’s a solution a lot of people come to. I think the real solution is developing healthy boundaries for self protection and then connecting deeply with trusted others.
Can we feel this as an infant?
Thank you for asking! These feelings can start as soon as our brains are developed enough to start experiencing abandonment, neglect, abuse, and internalize it. This can be before 1 year of age.
Why do therapists insist that all negative emotions in the world imply your parents were abusive? My parents were fine and I still hate myself
It's from childhood. Sorry to say, but you are probably in denial about some disfuncional dynamic in the family.
Probably, from what I know, emotional neglect was present. They did not teach you how to deal with your emotions, almost none adult 2021 had parents who teached verbally and with actions how to do this. Kids in the west are kids of parents whose parents had wartime experience. It takes 7 generations of healing from watmr trauma given there's not another war to deal with.
@@vivianevenancio6502 Thank you Dr. Venancio and Dr. RippleDrop for illuminating my exact traumas based on 20 words. Your ability to jump to conclusions is among the most athletic I've ever seen.
Hi Ben, it’s true that it doesn’t have to be parents. Self loathing can come from being bullied at school, abused by someone outside of the home. Also, sometimes from acting outside of our value system as adults for various reasons. The point is “hating” yourself is a hard way to live and there is a way out.
Yeah like for me my parents were fine but I had teachers and peers like that in my school
There is no healthy shame because you are not the doer.
"So, the shame conversation has a few different perspectives from different orientations. Whenever I talk about shame I will usually preface with, “this is a topic that has some conflicting views.” In no way will I ever say my understanding is the “right one”, it’s what makes the most sense to me. There is some discussion around shame being an evolutionary emergency break for offensive behavior that could get us exiled from our tribe. It’s a feeling that has more power than guilt because there is an element of exposure and embarrassment usually. Theoretically, if I am behaving in ways that are offensive/harmful/damaging in a community, and my own guilt isn’t enough to stop the behavior. It’s a possibility that the community will decide I am a hazard and reject me which would likely equal death in times when we were dependent on one another for food and protection. The argument is that when we are confronted publicly, the intensity if shame might cause us to stop the behaviors and stay safe in the tribe. An additional perspective is that in early childhood, if a caregiver is physically unsafe, violent, dangerous toward the child, shame acts as a “last ditch effort” to keep the child alive by interrupting proximity seeking - “I can’t go to mommy because I am so bad”. This can be noted in disorganized attachment styles that usually harbor a lot of internal shame. This use of shame obviously causes enormous problems in later life because a shame core from early life is the “toxic shame” people refer to. In the context of “healthy shame”, I think there are times when we are the doer. Some of us act in ways that are offensive and hurtful to others. Sometimes internal guilt causes us to recognize out behavior and remedy it but sometimes this isn’t the case. IF we don’t have a toxic shame core, we can likely withstand small amounts of shame if our actions are made known to others. However, with a shame core that will likely throw is into self-esteem failure and trauma reaction. This is all theoretical and general and by no means covers the vast nuances of the human experience. Just some food for thought." - Lana
@@APNLodge Hi Lana. Thank you for this. In my experience shame and embarrassment, fear, terror, sadness, disappointment are the product of thinking and believing something that is untrue. This is very difficult for a lot of people to understand because they are sure they know what is true. They still believe in language, time and change. #byronkatie