For more tasty training tidbits, consider grabbin a copy of my book, it'll show you how to ACTUALLY maximize your progress in the gym. It's 200+ pages with no filler, all useful info. Includes: -Detailed Programming Advice on How To Write Your Own Training Plan -HUNDREDS of Exercises (With pictures+descriptions+how to program them) -How to Bitch Slap your Plateaus -Injury Risk Reduction Advice -Cardio to Drop Fat+Increase Work Capacity -Optimal Equipment -Multiple Full Templates and MUCH MORE! Check it out, it's not even hundreds of dollars like SOME in the fitness industry charge... www.verityfit.com/product-page/sweat
Haven't finished reading it, but the way you provide and elaborate on so many movements is beautiful. It's always great to learn new things, and I enjoy your perspective on things. Keep making the good content 💪
I'm old school. High volume, go to failure on everything. I'm a firm believer you can't go wrong with working harder. May not work for everyone, but it works for me.
Bullsh*t! I refuse to believe that the last 5 reps of my set with a 6+R.I.R. aren't enough to grow optimally or grow at all. (For those who think that I am wrong, this comment was injected with 2000mgs of sarcasm)
I always say effective reps are way more important than the pump or the burn. You can experience those without getting any effective reps in. I like the fact that you highlighted technique, without good execution and form what people call effective is just far from it. Exercise selection as well, having lagging muscles might be just because they were never actually trained with an exercise that is specifically trains that. Excellent video as always. 😊
Seeing you grinding your sets past failure was very motivating for me and I tried the same, but it's probably not the best approach for me. It's way too fatiguing for me in the long run (especially as a beginner). Thanks, that was probably an eye-opener!
Going past failure is fine with smaller muscles like the delts and biceps because they tend to recover super quick, and doubly so if the exercise trains the muscle in the shortened position. You just want to make absolutely sure it's a safe exercise to fail on. So lateral raises and bicep curls with dumbbells are two good examples where you can just drop the weighs on the floor to bail; in contrast, failing a squat or bench press could severely inure or kill you.
Geoff love the videos you are putting out, your commitment to improving the fitness space without selling out and the huge amount of knowledge that you share. Discovered you last week and have watched a ton of your videos. I especially appreciate how you can relate things to actual science without treating it like gospel. Started watching youtube fitness again about a month ago and watched all the big PED users on the platform and never liked their justifications for why it was okay for them (but no you shouldn't do it!). Seeing lifetime natties who have achieved what people like you have is much more inspirational than seeing someone describe how much hard work they had to do while they shot a bunch of AAS into their ass. Its also refreshing to see an American living in China who actually understands the cultural differences and can explain them without racism. Your physique is honestly mindblowing, unironically my goal physique. Keep it up dude.
I just got through learning this the hard way with front squats. I can't leave front squats alone, I'm borderline obsessed with them, and I always come back to them when I try to drop them. I would trade fingers for pounds if I wasn't afraid of it effecting my front rack. On my heavy day I actually don't do front squats. I do heavy walkouts, and unracks. Then I do machine hack squats. Because if it is heavy you are going to recruit the hips to not die, thus making it ineffective reps in the context of building a front squat. If I train the front rack, and the quads I can get more stress to both than I could in the front squat. I went from being stuck for the longest to seeing rep PRS, to another 5 pounds last month. If I had gone heavy on the actual lift I would have ended up in more of a high bar position with less load than high bar, and the stress on my front rack would only be specific to the broken down front rack position that I'm not supposed to be in, in the first place. I would be practicing not dumping the bar from my dog shit position moreso than practicing the front squat. And that would carry over to my lighter days making all my training complete garbage.
Wonderful video! Have been getting lot of benefits from the "effective reps", especially while doing spider curls, overhead rope extensions, neutral grip (v-bar) pull downs. Also been keeping 2 mins as rest period between sets throughtout the workout. After trying diff rest periods, i realized 2 mins, work best for me (mainly compound moments) I prefer not to go heavy (except spider curls and tricep rope pulldowns) and instead do a ton of reps with a little lighter weights, going to failure in this way seems to be much more satisfactory for me. e.g Arnold press is where I do ton of reps with 25 lb dumbell in each set. Its lot of fun. Anyways, thanks for this gem of a video 😍
Hey If i train 4 Times a week i got this Special Energie to train and Long Term progress seems to get more easier! If i train 5 Times i Always feel tired fast even if the Volume is the Same ...been Training for ten years Low Volume Push /pull style rpe 10 ...i need this effecive Volume
RIR is useful for managing global fatigue IMO. It’s pretty useless on some isolation or less fatiguing compound movements, where I will use some other form of progression other than intensity.
Hey man i love your channel. People like you are dime of a Dozen(or whatever that saying is) but for real you help me look at training a whole different way
The saying is "a dime a dozen" and literally means the opposite of what you mean lol. It means common as much, not rare, easily attainable "I like audis but they are a dime a dozen these days" meaning they are everywhere/all over lol. What you meant was "rocking horse shit" which is slang for rare as hell because rocking horse shit isn't real lol.
My first two sets of high bar squat my quads blow up. Mid 3rd and 4 set I feel more glutes. Does that insinuate that my quads did what it could and my glutes and hams are taking over?
Learning about this cleared up confusion I’ve always had about volume vs intensity. Including higher intensity is most optimal because high volume is more fatiguing than low intensity. We like to think of low reps as super fatiguing and will injure us but that’s only when you’re doing a lot of it in addition to high volume. Think of strength vs hypertrophy blocks, people get away with doing intensity 24/7 by reducing volume. A set of 10 to 0 RIR is essentially a 1 rep max on that last rep under a lower absolute load. 0 RIR on the same exact exercise 24/7 is gonna get you injured just like maxing out on the same exact exercise too much will get you injured. It’s all about fatigue management and getting in the most amount of quality reps you can before you have to deload 👍🏻
Exactly. And on top of that I'd say you don't even have to deload that often if you take fatigue limiting as one of your priorities. And let's be honest, anyone who likes to keep progressing long term should do. Training your muscles when they're even slighly fatigued is often surprisingly unproductive.
Well that answers my question on strength, I've always avoided direct strength work - anything under 10 reps, especially for compounds as for fear of breaking my body, but to be fair the stuff I'm doing now already makes me feel like shit. Do you guys really take deloads? From what I've understood listening to both GVS and NH, they both advocate against deloads as it is an implication of poor programming. Man, I don't know if I'm mixing stuff up but this bodybuilding journey just gets more difficult the more I try to learn and analyse.
@@platinumstorm2521 It is complex but also simple once you find out what works. If you feel beat up that’s a sign of deloads being necessary but the other thing I alluded to was the too much of same variation/exercise can beat you up. Pretty much everyone does at least a little variation if you pay close attention to their workout routines like for every few sets they use a different exercise/variation. Conjugate is just using 8+ instead of 4-5 basically. If you max out on flat barbell bench one week next week it should be incline barbell then next swiss bar next floor press next close grip bench next incline swiss bar next close grip incline barbell next flat barbell with chains next swiss bar floor press next dumbbells (would be better to do 1 dumbbell at a time for max easier to set up) next close grip swiss bar next incline dumbbell etc basically anything you can think of. Reverse grip and decline bench adds that many more options. Volume work is similar but you don’t necessarily have to rotate as much, usually if you use a movement for a max you don’t wanna then use it for volume work that same session or even week. If you watch Alpha Destiny’s max effort lessons vids and other workouts you’ll see he does this with great success As for deloads these are my personal thoughts. NH likely just has amazing recovery genetics. He claims to be doing high intensity sets with 1 rep in the tank, training 6 days a week 2-3 hour sessions, and doing high volume with 0 RIR on every set. I haven’t looked that close at Geoffrey routines in depth to comment but you can see based on all the comments who disagree including other content creators deloads are ultimately mandatory for most people. Whenever we push ourselves hard to grow it’s inevitable we’ll have to deload. If you don’t have to deload and you don’t have great recovery genetics then it means you’re not pushing hard enough for progression. We want to minimize deloads but there is also a point where not training hard enough results in less gains. For one remember the optimal way to grow is progressive overload. We still grow from doing the same or lower stimulus over time but it’s much slower in comparison to a stimulus the body wasn’t use to. Look at people stuck in the novice stage for years making very slow progress as reference. Long term progressive overload is progressing in high quality volume or as NH likes to say tonnage. Say you decide you’re gonna do just 10 sets per muscle and that let’s you go without deloading indefinitely. In comparison to doing 12 weekly sets which forces a deload every 12 weeks (and yes this is realistic it’s what AD has successfully made happen this year). 10x13 weeks is 130 sets. 12x12 is 144. And the quality of stimulation is superior
@@platinumstorm2521 I don't know how it would be indicative of poor programming. I'm sure on some level you can be training too frequently, but at the other end of the spectrum, you can be training not frequently enough. If your joints feel beat up or if your performance in the gym is down for multiple days in a row, that's likely an indicator that you need a deload. I think people perhaps program them into their training preemptively, where instead of just listening to their body, they take a deload too early and potentially leave gains on the table. There is a lot to learn about resistance training and dieting, but honestly, just stay consistent, do things right 80%+ of the time and you're going to be making progress. Don't succumb to paralysis by analysis.
I see the best results training to failure. I’ll leave reps in the tank for squat, deads, and certain shoulder presses, but the massive benefit for something like dumbbell chest presses is the ability to safely go to failure. Obviously progressive overload is ALWAYS a thing regardless of rep range !
The fact that cluster sets are as good as traditional sets shows we don't to go that close to failure, at least if the load is high enough. People training with lighter loads probably need to go closer to failure to get those motor units working. You agree with this?
So I was doing cluster sets a couple months ago for elevated pike push ups and was able to greatly increase the volume and max reps with the movement. For compound movements like bench and squats. Cluster sets might be optimal to get effective reps for the main muscle groups you are actually trying to target.
This is a really good video. It reminded me of several things. Mike mentzer said that momentum is an outside force. Stan efforting talks about bar speed and that as it slows cells are temporarily unable to do any more work. Ed Coan said that he never missed a rep or maxed out unless in competition.
What sort of fibre type can reach 12-13 reps on a shoulder press machine, very slow and grindy towards last few reps, almost not being able to push the weight up (failing, I believe) but still being able to control it on the way down and I will sometimes grunt, pull a grotesque face because it's hard, then I will feel gassed and sometimes light headed for 5-10 seconds before my heart rate will slow down and although I can't lift anymore (unless I lighten the load) I feel like I could literally go for a sprint straight after my almost failure set.
If I start out with bodybuilding and decide to follow a 5x5 training program to get muscle growth and starting strength going, how long would I idially follow that program before I (need to) add more exercises to hit supportive muscle groups for a more well rounded result? If it matters: I'm 42 yo, height: 192 cm, weight: 76kg, body fat %: like 17-19% (probably), barely enough muscle to stand upright xD, little experience in the gym (no compound exercises, only machines)
Impossible to say as everyone is different. I know that it's hard to know what you do not know, but ultimately you just have to commit to it. You really don't need a ton of variation. I'm not a huge fan of most 5x5 programs, but they're certainly good for your situation. The fact that you're an untrained individual means you're going to make great gains regardless. I'd say just aim for 5-10 reps in those exercises and train within at least 3 reps shy of failure. Focus on progressively overloading, get adequate rest, consume enough protein and you'll be well on your way. Once you've done that for 6-12 months and you feel like you notice lagging body parts or you want to focus on developing certain body parts, then you can add more variation.
So based on what you said for resistance curve, do you recommend on taking an exercise like pull ups or rows failing at full room and then doing partial on this exercise or choosing two exercises one more challenging at the short range(like row) of movement and one at the long range of movement (like pullover) for most hypertrophy??
I really liked the video, you can tell it is very well thought out and you know your stuff, as usual (compared to some random guy that shouts in a video how progressive overload is "killing your gains" 🙄)
do videos analizing the technique and rep speed of different known pro bbders, for example, lee priest is very controled form and slow tempo, 0 cheating reps, while ronnie coleman was explosive concentrics skipping excentric often and with form breakdown on the last reps, yet both got crazy gains
Not sure I understand what's better since you said 0 RIR and to failure aren't the same. I'm performing 8 reps of +30kg n.g chin ups. On the 8th rep it takes me around 10 seconds to perform and I know there's no way I'm going to be able to perform another rep so I slow that last negative as much as I can in an attempt to milk it. Would it be better for hypertrophy to perform the negative with a normal tempo and then drop the weight so I can continue with weightless n.g chin ups with a few reps or is the slow tempo negative with +30kg worth more?
Shouldn't change the training much, perhaps slightly more moderate reps than heavy ones but...all the mechanisms are the same. Anyone selling you a "muscle building plan for people over 40!" is just marketing.
hey how do you log or program burner reps, like reps after failire, i mean they are all not the same so how can you try to beat them the next time if you dont realy know what you did, or do u just go allout and know performece incresed?
My want to do high or low reps varies. So one workout high reps gets the higher effort, while on another day the high reps aren't getting the effort they need, and it would be better if I just swapped exercise and lifted heavier.
While I would say that these objections don't exactly refute the fundamental premise of effective reps, which is just an oversimplified inference from empirical data, they perfectly demonstrate how scientific inference is rarely suitable for direct application to programming. There needs to be a set of principles applied to scientific discoveries to make them practical in a real-world context as well a holistic view of all the other variables.
The biggest issue I have with the effective reps theory (and by extension, RPE/RIR) is that they don't seem to take rep range into account. Does a set of 15+ really only have the same number of "effective reps" as a set of 10, or 6? Part of me is simply unable to accept that on a fundamental level, and I definitely find the "effort increase" or rep slowdown to be different on a high-rep isolation than a low rep compound. Effective reps and RPE also make it seem like the initial reps are mostly a waste of time and proximity to failure is the only thing that matters, whereas I personally like to believe that applying high effort across the whole set is more important. It's certainly more fun training that way.
Rep range really doesn't matter for hypertrophy, as the literature has come to determine. 5-10, 10-20, 20-30 are all stimulative of hypertrophy. Proximity to failure via mechanical tension is more important. You will always have to go through the initial reps to get to the effective reps, assuming you aren't doing 5 or less reps. The thing about higher rep sets too though, is that they are inherently more fatiguing. It's not about the number of reps you do, it's how difficult the set is as a whole, like you said. Just aim to hit at least 3 reps shy of failure and progressively overload your lifts and you're going to make gains.
Hey Geoff, there's a Eugene Teo video where he recommends benching flat backed because he says scapular retraction deactivates the seratus and can cause shoulder injury. What say you?
What do you think about pre-exhausting with isolation before a compound? Like say someone doesn't really feel quads on squats.. So do a set or two of leg extensions and then squat?
that is not how pre-exhaustion works. You do that to exhaust a secondary mover like doing legextension to exhaust your quads so when you do a hip thrust it can contribute less to the movement and you can rely more on your glutes as prime mover. In most compounds you dont need to rely on perception. As long as you are reaching good depth and pushing your knees forward you are training your quads inevitably and sensation with bigger compounds are not necessary. hope this helps
@@NormanKonstantin If you exhaust the secondary mover, then it becomes even more of a limiting factor and prevents you from training the target muscle with proper intensity.. Imagine benching with pre-exhausted or sore triceps, you will never get a good chest workout.
Some good info. But I hope you’ve learned more since this video. Lengthened partials are now kinda debunked as the be all end all. They have a limited purpose. Also, nothing you said in this video contradicts the effective reps model, as I think it’s understood now. In fact, I think you’ve backed it up. And that’s ok. We are always learning. I could be wrong. Everybody could be wrong. Idk. Lol
You can grow with only heavy sets of 3, but firstly the evidence that the effective reps model is based on shows that you need more sets. 3x8 is roughly equal to 6x3. Secondly, that's a good way to get injured--the groups doing heavy weight and low reps saw more drop-outs due to injuries and pain than the groups doing moderate reps.
You can do that. It's actually the reason why Beardsley only programs with 5-7 reps. The only problem is that it can be impractical and even dangerous for certain excercises, like constantly doing 5 RMs on lateral raises, calf raises or tricep extensions would have a pretty high risk for injury. But for bigger compounds, 5-7 reps with 1-2 RIR is encouraged.
For a full body 3xweek program, how many would be too many exercises in one workout. I've watched your video about full-body training, so if I did everything I would basically have 10 exercises, but I feel like that would be a bit too much. would it still work if I did less?
What is a good lat exercise where the strength curve puts most difficulty in the lengthened position? I've been making such slow progress with my rows that this video really made me consider that the strength curve is the problem. I'll probably start adding partials after full ROM failure, but it would be nice to know another exercise.
There is a certain Nautilus machine that does exactly that; pushing down your elbows. It‘s the best lat exercise as it puts the same amount of stress on the lat througout the whole movement and it completely takes out the biceps.
Personally I'd put load as issue #1. From my understanding the academic world has moved away from the effective reps model largely as it doesn't hold up very well when the load is anything over 70/75ish percent
tis why i switched to drop sets only....every rep after the first fail is effective, 10-14 effective reps in one set....smoked. and better progress than straight set volume pussy workouts....HIT style works for me
Be careful with that. You can easily get a lot of crappy volume, if you stop each drop before reaching failure. In that case it‘s just the same volume bullshit. But I do love the dropsets as well!❤
idk man people who are following paul carter, the people who pay for their programs even those who dont like him say they get amazing results, with what basically people say low volume, without partials shit like that, and i gotta say since i stop following that 20 sets of muscle a week trend, i started improving on my lifts and body composition
I feel like a lot of your criticisms with the model are things that no model can answer. This also kind of sounds more like it’s not Chris model which I think does a better job with all variables consider
I personally believe that the mind muscle connection is VERY important. I personally think that it's one of the most important favorites. In fact, when I started to really focus on my mind muscle connection, my gains most definitely increased and my workouts have become much better and much more efficient.
Geoff I wanna see you eventually talk about pre-exhaust sets. I had to do some recently. I'm doing a Smolov Jr program, and I had to do 2x7 223 lbs hex bar deadlifts (low-handles). That's way too easy so I did 313 lbs x 3 as a pre-exhaust set. Ironically it was too easy even with that pre-exhaust set. But I do think they could be useful.
Yeah, I'd like to hear his thought son this. Pre-exhaustion is making the working set feel heavier, which is basically a reverse dropset. I feel like it ties into the whole "effective reps" thing.
Finally fitness 2022 is all about "super individual". The selection of exercise need to come 1st before we going to talk about effective reps. One set of high bar squat is not the same as effective of one set of mighty pendulum squat for targeting quads. Im your fans TBH but completely disagree many things your take on this video.
I don't get this. This just gets too convoluted. My idea of making progress for successful progressive overload, is just making each set difficult to a point where you actually feel the dread of doing it again. Imo that kind of stress is what triggers muscle's need for transformation. It is very logical. Your muscles grow to make sure your body adapts and survives the extreme stimulus it is experiencing. Obviously you should adhere to common norms, like trying to keep reps on the lower side, make sure every rep is a proper form with maximum range of motion, the reps are explosive, and that you rest enough to repeat that.
Dude your content is very good it's saddening that you're killing yourself off of so much more scalability with your production value. Forget the horrible background, fix your hair! Stop looking like you just got out of bed! Get good lighting! You might not care about this but if you really want your message to be heard you'd put that extra effort.
For more tasty training tidbits, consider grabbin a copy of my book, it'll show you how to ACTUALLY maximize your progress in the gym.
It's 200+ pages with no filler, all useful info.
Includes:
-Detailed Programming Advice on How To Write Your Own Training Plan
-HUNDREDS of Exercises (With pictures+descriptions+how to program them)
-How to Bitch Slap your Plateaus
-Injury Risk Reduction Advice
-Cardio to Drop Fat+Increase Work Capacity
-Optimal Equipment
-Multiple Full Templates and MUCH MORE!
Check it out, it's not even hundreds of dollars like SOME in the fitness industry charge...
www.verityfit.com/product-page/sweat
tidbits is slowly becoming my favorite word.
You should have one of those thanks buttons where subscribers can donate
Haven't finished reading it, but the way you provide and elaborate on so many movements is beautiful. It's always great to learn new things, and I enjoy your perspective on things. Keep making the good content 💪
I admire Geoffrey's work ethic. Every video he posts is at exactly 10:10am. David Goggins aint got nothin on our boi.
Probably scheduled
The clock is broken. : )
@Kev TheDev
(Goggins wants to know your location)
🤣🤣🥲
He's on Chinese time.
Spot on about technique with the bench example. It’s waaay more nuanced than just “bench works chest and tris”.
yes
I'm old school. High volume, go to failure on everything. I'm a firm believer you can't go wrong with working harder. May not work for everyone, but it works for me.
“If you’re spamming me with questions consider buying the fuckin’ book” would be more appropriate considering
Bullsh*t!
I refuse to believe that the last 5 reps of my set with a 6+R.I.R. aren't enough to grow optimally or grow at all.
(For those who think that I am wrong, this comment was injected with 2000mgs of sarcasm)
I always say effective reps are way more important than the pump or the burn. You can experience those without getting any effective reps in.
I like the fact that you highlighted technique, without good execution and form what people call effective is just far from it.
Exercise selection as well, having lagging muscles might be just because they were never actually trained with an exercise that is specifically trains that.
Excellent video as always. 😊
Seeing you grinding your sets past failure was very motivating for me and I tried the same, but it's probably not the best approach for me. It's way too fatiguing for me in the long run (especially as a beginner). Thanks, that was probably an eye-opener!
Going past failure is fine with smaller muscles like the delts and biceps because they tend to recover super quick, and doubly so if the exercise trains the muscle in the shortened position. You just want to make absolutely sure it's a safe exercise to fail on. So lateral raises and bicep curls with dumbbells are two good examples where you can just drop the weighs on the floor to bail; in contrast, failing a squat or bench press could severely inure or kill you.
Been binging your content lately. You've levelled up quite a lot from 2 years ago, that cannot be said for a lot of other youtubers.
Bros like twice the size from 2 years ago and as natty as it gets. Geoff and Alex are the only one growing while being advanced
As a math major, my professor would always say "all models are wrong, but some of them are useful".
This man deserves 75 million subs
why
I find that with many isolation lifts myo reps, both theoretically and practically, are very effective.
After watching your expression on Instagram while performing lateral raises, i understood true meaning of failure
Geoff love the videos you are putting out, your commitment to improving the fitness space without selling out and the huge amount of knowledge that you share. Discovered you last week and have watched a ton of your videos. I especially appreciate how you can relate things to actual science without treating it like gospel.
Started watching youtube fitness again about a month ago and watched all the big PED users on the platform and never liked their justifications for why it was okay for them (but no you shouldn't do it!). Seeing lifetime natties who have achieved what people like you have is much more inspirational than seeing someone describe how much hard work they had to do while they shot a bunch of AAS into their ass.
Its also refreshing to see an American living in China who actually understands the cultural differences and can explain them without racism.
Your physique is honestly mindblowing, unironically my goal physique. Keep it up dude.
I just got through learning this the hard way with front squats. I can't leave front squats alone, I'm borderline obsessed with them, and I always come back to them when I try to drop them. I would trade fingers for pounds if I wasn't afraid of it effecting my front rack.
On my heavy day I actually don't do front squats. I do heavy walkouts, and unracks. Then I do machine hack squats. Because if it is heavy you are going to recruit the hips to not die, thus making it ineffective reps in the context of building a front squat.
If I train the front rack, and the quads I can get more stress to both than I could in the front squat.
I went from being stuck for the longest to seeing rep PRS, to another 5 pounds last month. If I had gone heavy on the actual lift I would have ended up in more of a high bar position with less load than high bar, and the stress on my front rack would only be specific to the broken down front rack position that I'm not supposed to be in, in the first place. I would be practicing not dumping the bar from my dog shit position moreso than practicing the front squat. And that would carry over to my lighter days making all my training complete garbage.
Wow, a new Geoff video. Very cool
I thought I was a subscriber, but apparently I wasn't. Well, now I am. Great videos!
Brilliant video bro
Wonderful video!
Have been getting lot of benefits from the "effective reps", especially while doing spider curls, overhead rope extensions, neutral grip (v-bar) pull downs.
Also been keeping 2 mins as rest period between sets throughtout the workout. After trying diff rest periods, i realized 2 mins, work best for me (mainly compound moments)
I prefer not to go heavy (except spider curls and tricep rope pulldowns) and instead do a ton of reps with a little lighter weights, going to failure in this way seems to be much more satisfactory for me.
e.g Arnold press is where I do ton of reps with 25 lb dumbell in each set. Its lot of fun.
Anyways, thanks for this gem of a video 😍
Hey If i train 4 Times a week i got this Special Energie to train and Long Term progress seems to get more easier!
If i train 5 Times i Always feel tired fast even if the Volume is the Same ...been Training for ten years Low Volume Push /pull style rpe 10 ...i need this effecive Volume
RIR is useful for managing global fatigue IMO. It’s pretty useless on some isolation or less fatiguing compound movements, where I will use some other form of progression other than intensity.
Hey man i love your channel. People like you are dime of a Dozen(or whatever that saying is) but for real you help me look at training a whole different way
I think that means the opposite of what you are trying to say 🤣
But I understand what you mean
The saying is "a dime a dozen" and literally means the opposite of what you mean lol. It means common as much, not rare, easily attainable "I like audis but they are a dime a dozen these days" meaning they are everywhere/all over lol.
What you meant was "rocking horse shit" which is slang for rare as hell because rocking horse shit isn't real lol.
@@DDB-91 lol i feel dumb now but hey now i having something new to say
@@Dude29 😂
A dime a dozen means 10 out of every 12.
"I'm an incel" got me rofl
Luckily for me i only drank my shaker few seconds later...
Really good video, one of your best in my opinion. It's muddy waters
My first two sets of high bar squat my quads blow up. Mid 3rd and 4 set I feel more glutes. Does that insinuate that my quads did what it could and my glutes and hams are taking over?
Nordic on an inclined platform for better rangr?
I don't have the setup. Lemmie know how it feels.
Great vid bru
Loving the videos
0:19 I'm dead dude 💀💀
geoffrey i like your stuff, thank you
love this video, so many great points
Learning about this cleared up confusion I’ve always had about volume vs intensity. Including higher intensity is most optimal because high volume is more fatiguing than low intensity. We like to think of low reps as super fatiguing and will injure us but that’s only when you’re doing a lot of it in addition to high volume. Think of strength vs hypertrophy blocks, people get away with doing intensity 24/7 by reducing volume. A set of 10 to 0 RIR is essentially a 1 rep max on that last rep under a lower absolute load. 0 RIR on the same exact exercise 24/7 is gonna get you injured just like maxing out on the same exact exercise too much will get you injured. It’s all about fatigue management and getting in the most amount of quality reps you can before you have to deload 👍🏻
Exactly. And on top of that I'd say you don't even have to deload that often if you take fatigue limiting as one of your priorities. And let's be honest, anyone who likes to keep progressing long term should do. Training your muscles when they're even slighly fatigued is often surprisingly unproductive.
Well that answers my question on strength, I've always avoided direct strength work - anything under 10 reps, especially for compounds as for fear of breaking my body, but to be fair the stuff I'm doing now already makes me feel like shit.
Do you guys really take deloads? From what I've understood listening to both GVS and NH, they both advocate against deloads as it is an implication of poor programming. Man, I don't know if I'm mixing stuff up but this bodybuilding journey just gets more difficult the more I try to learn and analyse.
@@platinumstorm2521 It is complex but also simple once you find out what works. If you feel beat up that’s a sign of deloads being necessary but the other thing I alluded to was the too much of same variation/exercise can beat you up. Pretty much everyone does at least a little variation if you pay close attention to their workout routines like for every few sets they use a different exercise/variation. Conjugate is just using 8+ instead of 4-5 basically. If you max out on flat barbell bench one week next week it should be incline barbell then next swiss bar next floor press next close grip bench next incline swiss bar next close grip incline barbell next flat barbell with chains next swiss bar floor press next dumbbells (would be better to do 1 dumbbell at a time for max easier to set up) next close grip swiss bar next incline dumbbell etc basically anything you can think of. Reverse grip and decline bench adds that many more options. Volume work is similar but you don’t necessarily have to rotate as much, usually if you use a movement for a max you don’t wanna then use it for volume work that same session or even week. If you watch Alpha Destiny’s max effort lessons vids and other workouts you’ll see he does this with great success
As for deloads these are my personal thoughts. NH likely just has amazing recovery genetics. He claims to be doing high intensity sets with 1 rep in the tank, training 6 days a week 2-3 hour sessions, and doing high volume with 0 RIR on every set. I haven’t looked that close at Geoffrey routines in depth to comment but you can see based on all the comments who disagree including other content creators deloads are ultimately mandatory for most people. Whenever we push ourselves hard to grow it’s inevitable we’ll have to deload. If you don’t have to deload and you don’t have great recovery genetics then it means you’re not pushing hard enough for progression. We want to minimize deloads but there is also a point where not training hard enough results in less gains. For one remember the optimal way to grow is progressive overload. We still grow from doing the same or lower stimulus over time but it’s much slower in comparison to a stimulus the body wasn’t use to. Look at people stuck in the novice stage for years making very slow progress as reference. Long term progressive overload is progressing in high quality volume or as NH likes to say tonnage. Say you decide you’re gonna do just 10 sets per muscle and that let’s you go without deloading indefinitely. In comparison to doing 12 weekly sets which forces a deload every 12 weeks (and yes this is realistic it’s what AD has successfully made happen this year). 10x13 weeks is 130 sets. 12x12 is 144. And the quality of stimulation is superior
@@KurokamiNajimi we meet again
@@platinumstorm2521 I don't know how it would be indicative of poor programming. I'm sure on some level you can be training too frequently, but at the other end of the spectrum, you can be training not frequently enough. If your joints feel beat up or if your performance in the gym is down for multiple days in a row, that's likely an indicator that you need a deload. I think people perhaps program them into their training preemptively, where instead of just listening to their body, they take a deload too early and potentially leave gains on the table.
There is a lot to learn about resistance training and dieting, but honestly, just stay consistent, do things right 80%+ of the time and you're going to be making progress. Don't succumb to paralysis by analysis.
Do you maintain your stance on the 5RIR is nothing thing but for barbell rows instead of chest supported? If so why/why not
learned alot from this thank you
your editing is so freaking hilarious
Videos are getting better and funnier by the day hahaha that beginning fucking killed me
I see the best results training to failure. I’ll leave reps in the tank for squat, deads, and certain shoulder presses, but the massive benefit for something like dumbbell chest presses is the ability to safely go to failure.
Obviously progressive overload is ALWAYS a thing regardless of rep range !
Going to failure on squat is playing with your life 😂
@@jooot_6850 and especially your knees
@@jooot_6850you should use a smith machine! Try it, squatting to failure is extremely satisfactorY for me!
The subtle "I'm an incel" tucked into the beginning 😂😭
Great video.
The fact that cluster sets are as good as traditional sets shows we don't to go that close to failure, at least if the load is high enough. People training with lighter loads probably need to go closer to failure to get those motor units working.
You agree with this?
This is why i only do the last 5 effective reps.
So I was doing cluster sets a couple months ago for elevated pike push ups and was able to greatly increase the volume and max reps with the movement. For compound movements like bench and squats. Cluster sets might be optimal to get effective reps for the main muscle groups you are actually trying to target.
I notice it a lot in bent rows, the lats get less engaged the closer to failure I get, generally.
Hi Geoffrey, I love your videos. Could you please make a video for a program for lifting twice a week? Thanks.
This is a really good video. It reminded me of several things. Mike mentzer said that momentum is an outside force. Stan efforting talks about bar speed and that as it slows cells are temporarily unable to do any more work. Ed Coan said that he never missed a rep or maxed out unless in competition.
What sort of fibre type can reach 12-13 reps on a shoulder press machine, very slow and grindy towards last few reps, almost not being able to push the weight up (failing, I believe) but still being able to control it on the way down and I will sometimes grunt, pull a grotesque face because it's hard, then I will feel gassed and sometimes light headed for 5-10 seconds before my heart rate will slow down and although I can't lift anymore (unless I lighten the load) I feel like I could literally go for a sprint straight after my almost failure set.
If I start out with bodybuilding and decide to follow a 5x5 training program to get muscle growth and starting strength going, how long would I idially follow that program before I (need to) add more exercises to hit supportive muscle groups for a more well rounded result?
If it matters: I'm 42 yo, height: 192 cm, weight: 76kg, body fat %: like 17-19% (probably), barely enough muscle to stand upright xD, little experience in the gym (no compound exercises, only machines)
Impossible to say as everyone is different. I know that it's hard to know what you do not know, but ultimately you just have to commit to it. You really don't need a ton of variation. I'm not a huge fan of most 5x5 programs, but they're certainly good for your situation. The fact that you're an untrained individual means you're going to make great gains regardless. I'd say just aim for 5-10 reps in those exercises and train within at least 3 reps shy of failure. Focus on progressively overloading, get adequate rest, consume enough protein and you'll be well on your way.
Once you've done that for 6-12 months and you feel like you notice lagging body parts or you want to focus on developing certain body parts, then you can add more variation.
So based on what you said for resistance curve, do you recommend on taking an exercise like pull ups or rows failing at full room and then doing partial on this exercise or choosing two exercises one more challenging at the short range(like row) of movement and one at the long range of movement (like pullover) for most hypertrophy??
I really liked the video, you can tell it is very well thought out and you know your stuff, as usual (compared to some random guy that shouts in a video how progressive overload is "killing your gains" 🙄)
Everything is killing your gains and your workout is 4 hours long because there's always a new thing you should do every workout (non-negotiable)
do videos analizing the technique and rep speed of different known pro bbders, for example, lee priest is very controled form and slow tempo, 0 cheating reps, while ronnie coleman was explosive concentrics skipping excentric often and with form breakdown on the last reps, yet both got crazy gains
Not sure I understand what's better since you said 0 RIR and to failure aren't the same. I'm performing 8 reps of +30kg n.g chin ups. On the 8th rep it takes me around 10 seconds to perform and I know there's no way I'm going to be able to perform another rep so I slow that last negative as much as I can in an attempt to milk it. Would it be better for hypertrophy to perform the negative with a normal tempo and then drop the weight so I can continue with weightless n.g chin ups with a few reps or is the slow tempo negative with +30kg worth more?
Be aggressive and smart with your muscles, use PEDs (Performance Enhancing Documents) for educational gains 💪🏻
Great video. Does your book talk about men over 40 trying to build muscle? Heavy weight or lighter weights or both?
Shouldn't change the training much, perhaps slightly more moderate reps than heavy ones but...all the mechanisms are the same. Anyone selling you a "muscle building plan for people over 40!" is just marketing.
@@GVS cool thanks man. Love the channel
20min video on the dot? Instant like
hey how do you log or program burner reps, like reps after failire, i mean they are all not the same so how can you try to beat them the next time if you dont realy know what you did, or do u just go allout and know performece incresed?
Never tapped a notif this fast
Heavy cable overhead tricep extensions make me want to bust and that’s all that matters 🙏🏻
My want to do high or low reps varies. So one workout high reps gets the higher effort, while on another day the high reps aren't getting the effort they need, and it would be better if I just swapped exercise and lifted heavier.
having light/medium/heavy days seems popular
Dish washing > lifting for max gainzzz!
so fkn good joocy omg video Geoff. I loved it
While I would say that these objections don't exactly refute the fundamental premise of effective reps, which is just an oversimplified inference from empirical data, they perfectly demonstrate how scientific inference is rarely suitable for direct application to programming. There needs to be a set of principles applied to scientific discoveries to make them practical in a real-world context as well a holistic view of all the other variables.
The biggest issue I have with the effective reps theory (and by extension, RPE/RIR) is that they don't seem to take rep range into account. Does a set of 15+ really only have the same number of "effective reps" as a set of 10, or 6? Part of me is simply unable to accept that on a fundamental level, and I definitely find the "effort increase" or rep slowdown to be different on a high-rep isolation than a low rep compound.
Effective reps and RPE also make it seem like the initial reps are mostly a waste of time and proximity to failure is the only thing that matters, whereas I personally like to believe that applying high effort across the whole set is more important. It's certainly more fun training that way.
Rep range really doesn't matter for hypertrophy, as the literature has come to determine. 5-10, 10-20, 20-30 are all stimulative of hypertrophy. Proximity to failure via mechanical tension is more important. You will always have to go through the initial reps to get to the effective reps, assuming you aren't doing 5 or less reps. The thing about higher rep sets too though, is that they are inherently more fatiguing. It's not about the number of reps you do, it's how difficult the set is as a whole, like you said. Just aim to hit at least 3 reps shy of failure and progressively overload your lifts and you're going to make gains.
@@RthereNEusernames 5 rep chads stay winning
@@jooot_6850 Yeah, if you go to failure on all of your sets. Otherwise you're probably leaving some stimulative reps on the table.
RIR is illogical retardation..most of the broscience presented here makes me think this guy is just on dat dare celltech
Hey Geoff, there's a Eugene Teo video where he recommends benching flat backed because he says scapular retraction deactivates the seratus and can cause shoulder injury. What say you?
Try it and see how you respond. It all comes down to what works for you.
What do you think about pre-exhausting with isolation before a compound? Like say someone doesn't really feel quads on squats.. So do a set or two of leg extensions and then squat?
that is not how pre-exhaustion works. You do that to exhaust a secondary mover like doing legextension to exhaust your quads so when you do a hip thrust it can contribute less to the movement and you can rely more on your glutes as prime mover.
In most compounds you dont need to rely on perception. As long as you are reaching good depth and pushing your knees forward you are training your quads inevitably and sensation with bigger compounds are not necessary. hope this helps
@@NormanKonstantin If you exhaust the secondary mover, then it becomes even more of a limiting factor and prevents you from training the target muscle with proper intensity.. Imagine benching with pre-exhausted or sore triceps, you will never get a good chest workout.
@@3Runner95 I preexhaust traps w shrugs before RDLs to increase trap growth. It's been an experiment
#12 I think you could grow from 5 rir rows if you upped your stretching and superseted with 5 rir pullups.
at 0:20 i laughed out so hard that was so funny
I take every isolation set to failure especially machines, squat bench deadlift I go no higher honestly than 2rir and avoid failure if possible,
What do you think of snake diet guys recent view of bulking on low protein keto?
Some good info. But I hope you’ve learned more since this video. Lengthened partials are now kinda debunked as the be all end all. They have a limited purpose. Also, nothing you said in this video contradicts the effective reps model, as I think it’s understood now. In fact, I think you’ve backed it up. And that’s ok. We are always learning. I could be wrong. Everybody could be wrong. Idk. Lol
I identify as a dumbbell on leg days.
If only the last few reps count, why not just lift your 1-3rm on every lift to skip the wasted reps🧠
Maybe Rippetoe was on to something...
nah.
@@GVS 🤣
There will be not much metabolic stress and mechanical tension.
You can grow with only heavy sets of 3, but firstly the evidence that the effective reps model is based on shows that you need more sets. 3x8 is roughly equal to 6x3. Secondly, that's a good way to get injured--the groups doing heavy weight and low reps saw more drop-outs due to injuries and pain than the groups doing moderate reps.
You can do that. It's actually the reason why Beardsley only programs with 5-7 reps. The only problem is that it can be impractical and even dangerous for certain excercises, like constantly doing 5 RMs on lateral raises, calf raises or tricep extensions would have a pretty high risk for injury. But for bigger compounds, 5-7 reps with 1-2 RIR is encouraged.
For a full body 3xweek program, how many would be too many exercises in one workout. I've watched your video about full-body training, so if I did everything I would basically have 10 exercises, but I feel like that would be a bit too much. would it still work if I did less?
Just google strong lifts and you are golden.
Lets gooo notification squad 🚨
What is a good lat exercise where the strength curve puts most difficulty in the lengthened position? I've been making such slow progress with my rows that this video really made me consider that the strength curve is the problem. I'll probably start adding partials after full ROM failure, but it would be nice to know another exercise.
Dumbbell (or cable) pullovers
There is a certain Nautilus machine that does exactly that; pushing down your elbows. It‘s the best lat exercise as it puts the same amount of stress on the lat througout the whole movement and it completely takes out the biceps.
Personally I'd put load as issue #1. From my understanding the academic world has moved away from the effective reps model largely as it doesn't hold up very well when the load is anything over 70/75ish percent
That shirt during your excercises 😛🤪😍❤
I literally aspirated and began choking on my drink during the intro when background Geoff said "I'm an incel"
dont think ive not, not liked a single video! 💪
the dumbledore insert
tis why i switched to drop sets only....every rep after the first fail is effective, 10-14 effective reps in one set....smoked. and better progress than straight set volume pussy workouts....HIT style works for me
Based
Be careful with that. You can easily get a lot of crappy volume, if you stop each drop before reaching failure. In that case it‘s just the same volume bullshit. But I do love the dropsets as well!❤
Intellectual models are the most intetesting topic.
idk man people who are following paul carter, the people who pay for their programs even those who dont like him say they get amazing results, with what basically people say low volume, without partials shit like that, and i gotta say since i stop following that 20 sets of muscle a week trend, i started improving on my lifts and body composition
there's a lot going on in that background there
Whats your take on the Big Boy vs Joey Stax situation
They're both WRONG.
I'm just kidding I don't know anything about that.
@@GVS if you really want to trigger people, say that they’re both right
who the hell
MYO reps tho?
Also good. Have done a video on them.
2:02 Goeffrey tries not to become german
I feel like a lot of your criticisms with the model are things that no model can answer. This also kind of sounds more like it’s not Chris model which I think does a better job with all variables consider
I personally believe that the mind muscle connection is VERY important. I personally think that it's one of the most important favorites. In fact, when I started to really focus on my mind muscle connection, my gains most definitely increased and my workouts have become much better and much more efficient.
Geoff I wanna see you eventually talk about pre-exhaust sets. I had to do some recently.
I'm doing a Smolov Jr program, and I had to do 2x7 223 lbs hex bar deadlifts (low-handles). That's way too easy so I did 313 lbs x 3 as a pre-exhaust set.
Ironically it was too easy even with that pre-exhaust set. But I do think they could be useful.
Yeah, I'd like to hear his thought son this. Pre-exhaustion is making the working set feel heavier, which is basically a reverse dropset. I feel like it ties into the whole "effective reps" thing.
@@TekWarfare Yes its very useful, like if you gotta do dumbbell bench press at a gym that only has 80 lb dumbbells
Finally fitness 2022 is all about "super individual". The selection of exercise need to come 1st before we going to talk about effective reps. One set of high bar squat is not the same as effective of one set of mighty pendulum squat for targeting quads. Im your fans TBH but completely disagree many things your take on this video.
That intro 😂
I don't get this. This just gets too convoluted.
My idea of making progress for successful progressive overload, is just making each set difficult to a point where you actually feel the dread of doing it again.
Imo that kind of stress is what triggers muscle's need for transformation. It is very logical. Your muscles grow to make sure your body adapts and survives the extreme stimulus it is experiencing.
Obviously you should adhere to common norms, like trying to keep reps on the lower side, make sure every rep is a proper form with maximum range of motion, the reps are explosive, and that you rest enough to repeat that.
Also rep range ya. Last 5 reps of a 15 rep set is different than last 5 reps of a 8 rep set.
Gymcel*
All reps are important or why wouldn’t we all just do one rep max.
Motor cortex
Dude your content is very good it's saddening that you're killing yourself off of so much more scalability with your production value. Forget the horrible background, fix your hair! Stop looking like you just got out of bed! Get good lighting! You might not care about this but if you really want your message to be heard you'd put that extra effort.
👍👍👍
LMAO @ that intro
Most people are too busy figuring out where to get their S@RMS than they are with questions such as these 🤔
What do you think of daily undulating periodization?
I'm a fan of it, though I don't really consider it periodization, just good programming.