Really appreciate you speaking as a contractor to other contractors, thought I was watching essential craftsman for a second. Pride in your craft shines through. And keep up the good work!
Good video , great advice . I always tell my clients that the shock of a high price last less longer than the results and consequences of bad workmanship.
Painter here. I don’t ever price by the square footage, I price by the day or half day. I used to mark up paint but found it tedious to explain to clients. So instead, they get my price but I start my day clock when I get to the paint store. I've never had clients question that and generally make more than I used to with the mark up. That being said, repeat clients get a good price on small jobs, you are right, loyalty and appreciation needs to cut both ways in any relationship.
@@lil-j-waters , it isn't a "weird mark-up". Every business that sells you a product marks it up or else they would go out of business. They never give the client their wholesale price. Like I said, I make more money billing the time but people are generally too dumb to figure that out.
@@TimboSlice-ox6wd , they wouldn't get my discount unless I order it. Also, the discounts aren't chain wide, so they would have to go my store which doesn't work well.
@@iainstewart371 more often than not we get it ourselves, but giving the customer the option makes them feel more involved, saves us time and them money. We pretty much have one supplier in our area and we can call ahead. Works well sometimes.
Ben, That last thing you said about piece work" really hits home" I'm a general contractor, but many years ago before I got my license, I worked for a local commercial & residential framing contractor as a carpenter. at one point, work really slowed down and the boss told the lead carpenter & me to find a fill in job until the next big project started in a couple of months. The lead & I teamed up & went to work for a tract home builder & it was a piece work job. It was a very "rude awakening" watching these other piece work crews ( the speed & "roughness" of their work was amazing). We lasted about a week before the superintendent came over & told us we were too slow & "let us go". The irony though was that he then hired us on an hourly pay scale to fix all the mistakes from the "piece crews" throughout the tract. I still remember one particular fix. The piece crew had framed an opening for a patio slider door on the 1st floor of a 2 story home. They made a mistake & set the 6 x 12 header about 2" too low & when the GC told them to fix it, these "rocket scientists" pulled out a chain saw & notched the header up the 2" inches in this load bearing wall.
Absolute pearls of wisdom here, Ben! As a handyman I do small patches because no one wants to do them. I have electrical and plumbing contractors handing my name out as the drywall repair guy after they knock holes in the walls. It's a great entry level way to get new customers for other work that I do.... and I would add your comment on cleanliness is huge! It sets you apart from many contractors by far. Thanks so much for this video, my friend!
I'm a handyman in the UK. This is great advice all round not just for drywall. Most of my work is little jobs and it's so easy to under price. Some of my best customers tell me how expensive I am (I'm not by the way, I know full well what the market rates are), funny thing though is they keep having me back.
Ben these types of videos could be a really great new addition to your content types. You have a lot of knowledge and experience and passing it down to newbies is super valuable. Also, its easy videos to make 😂which you deserve
The gem of a "takeaway".......... "You don't lose money on work you don't do". Made my day. The other gem... "how fast I have to work and how much I don't care to make money at the job" Since I am the guy that everyone says will never compromise (true) I get fewer and better "jobs". Thanks, great video no matter the profession.
Good advice Ben. Tradsmen should take the time make a spreadsheet or list on paper of every single thing they do for a small job. Leave nothing out. Then put how much time each little thing it takes to do. Then add materials, consumables, etc. You will be surprised how it adds up. Then do the job and reanalyze afterwords.
All great advice in my opinion. Yes as contractors we may have a stock of some different mud, tapes and supplies but that does not mean we should give it away either. Also as you stated we shouldn't have a breakdown charge "$1" for using a partial roll of tape $2 for screws etc. Even with a general line item of "disposable materials" this doesn't cover the use of our equipment whether it be drops, knives, drills, dust containment and so on. If it's multiple trips in an occupied home then there is likely set up and clean ups multiple times. It can be hard to not take little jobs for a cheap charge but giving away labor and materials for pennys on the dollar isn't right either. I'm glad to hear your perspective regarding this touchy area. As a homeowner I also am aware that most garage door repairs, plumbers, HVAC, electricians and appliance repairs have minimum trip charges similar to an auto repair shop diagnosing repairs. This fee is sometimes waived if the work is contracted (but not always) and even then I feel it is incorporated into the job price. Yes we want to build relationships with customers and obtain more lucrative work but at the end of the day.. time is money and it takes years to have the experience to efficiently complete work to a satisfactory level in a timely and neat manner. If we make it look easy and fast it's because we spent years learning and we should not be penalized for that! Nice video as always
Ben, I work in excavation, and everything you said applies to our trade as well. Accounting for travel time, prep, and disposal is especially important for us on small jobs. It takes us just as long to load equipment, prep, and clean up on a small job as it does a larger one, so we’ve learned to work that into every quote. Thank you for sharing your wisdom!
You quote the price. If he says "when can you start?" you know you were low. If he grumbles but agrees, you are getting close. If he says " I have to talk to my wife (or partner, or dog)" you probably quoted a price that will work well for you and he may go for it. If he says "I'll get back to you" - he won't.
A guy we did some work for once said, "I want a win-win situation. I want a win for me and a win for you. If we both dont win, i dont wanna do business with you."
Thank you for this video..... even though ive been doing construction for over 50 years..... reviewing these concepts is valuable.....we forget something that we need to do
I'd love to see you expand on how to keep a clean site. Drywall dust sure is the bane of a job so I'd love some tips from you on setting up for a small job.
When all else fails, youre in a luxury condo with expensive furniture and trying to sand a patch where the ceiling meets the wall... I do the "tent". Using painters tape and a dropsheet roll, literally create a mini tent, from floor to ceiling, and enclose yourself inside with ladder and sanding tools, recommend mask and goggles and a longsleeve hoodie for this. Make sure to dust the walls off before you finish. If it's a patch near the ground, create a ceiling for your tent so you can save materials. When youre done, take off the hoodie/gloves/mask/shoes, use a shopvac to clean up any extra dust (if youre careful there wont be much), and collapse the tent inwards, rolling it into a ball before tying up in a trash bag. It can take a lot of materials though and extra time so I usually charge $5-$10 extra in materials plus whatever time it takes ( I do hourly for small jobs). Or you can sometimes get away with just covering the ground (for like 6 feet in each direction), then sanding carefully while holding your shopvac hose next to the sander to catch the dust. In any case, whatever time you take setting up will be much less than the time it takes to clean up, I always tell customers this.
Also Zipwall system. Use the poles if it's not just a corner so you can trow as mich ddust as you please. Of course eith no furnishings or other items. In those cases slow and light sanding preferable with vacuum, box fan with filter attached to the infeed, floor coverings, plastic visqueen around the area, cut with razor instead of multitool or other machines, etc. If you sweep, small light strokes otherwise your just lifting it onto the air.
Ben, I started a handyman business on the side a couple years ago to help send the kids to college. Your videos have helped me tremendously with so many jobs! From taping, muding, sanding, texturing, plaster repair and so on. Love your expertise, and you are a master! Thanks!!!
Gas, liability insurance, business license and TAX etc all have to be paid for. A good rule of thumb is twice what you want to earn per hour (which includes set up and tear down) plus materials. An hour on the job is usually several hours of work and most of the money is going to material and overhead. If you're not factoring in the cost to you you can't bid jobs. Don't be afraid to toss out a huge bid on small jobs because it's small. Remember that it's oftentimes as expensive to do a job that has 1 hour of work as it is to do an 8 hour job. There's a reason why minimum prices exist and can work. Not sure about the drywall business but I know in other trades it's easy to get small jobs confused with easy ones. I wouldn't call in a professional on a small job because I know I'm going to have to pay his tax insurance healthcare etc and when I do it it's just my time. For me that means I can take 3 or 4 times more time and still come out ahead.
It's probably my favorite video to date. I'm sure you had a similar experience to mine in Alberta where trade school does virtually nothing to prepare you for pricing jobs. Material estimation, sure, but there is so much more to pricing a job.
An awesome video Ben, thank you! I’ve gotten much cleaner as I’ve gotten better at drywall, one tip I learned is to use a big box fan with a furnace filter taped to it in the window pointing out so your keeping negative air pressure in the workspace and you’d be surprised how much dust the filter catches!
Haven't seen one of your videos for a few months now. Got into your channel heavily while doing a personal remodel down to the studs 3 years ago. You look TREMOUNDOUSLY more healthy. Not that you looked bad before, but you look a few years younger now. More meat on the bone. Less hollowness around the eyes. I'm glad the channel is treating you well!!
This info could easily be applied to a lot of professions. I’m a professional photographer and am constantly being asked to do jobs for the‘experience’. I have thirty years of experience and have thousands of dollars of equipment. Customers don’t have clue about what it takes to run a business.
My goodness! It is a joke. The one that kills me is do my photos for free, and I will give you references. I’m like, who are you? Who the hell do you know? Nobody! And who is going to pay if my expensive equipment gets damaged? You must have
You must have a minimum rate that you charge regardless of how long a job lasts. If you charge $200 an hour, someone will say, “Since I only need you for 15 minutes, that’s $50. Nope. That $50 is not worth getting out all that equipment, packing it, transporting it, setting it up, breaking down, and putting it back. As that model said, “It’s not worth getting our bed for.” If you do wedding photography, customers must realize that the photographer is with them before, during, and after the wedding (sometimes months). But the photographer and videographer are normally hired last and nickel-and-dimed the most. Planners, caterers, bakers work hard, but are done before or right after the wedding ends. Feel your pain, buddy. Feel comfort knowing that it isn’t just you….
Thank you for pointing out all the extra work and time that we put into with all construction projects! This is why so many companies fail because of underbidding jobs because of inexperience and not being confident with their ability to price the project appropriately. The word “Confidence” is what most successful companies have and only a few businesses owners have it!
This is why I do small jobs myself now whether it's drywall or brakes on my car. The rates you guys have to charge makes my wallet very shy. But my skills have grown tremendously over the years.
I’m glad you can see that we have to charge them. In most cases I don’t think people are gouging. Some do for sure but most of us are just trying to stay in business.
Sure wish this kind of content was around 45 yrs. ago when I got into handyman work. Learn everything the hard way. From pricing to just doing the work.
Great video! I sure could have used this info 2 years ago when I started my painting and drywall repair business. I had to figure this all out on my own and learn what works and what doesn’t. I agree on all points, although I do separate materials and labour/travel on my estimates. You have me thinking now that I shouldn’t, maybe I’m giving too much info. If it’s any help to anyone here starting out, I have found that in most cases, whatever my material costs are, the labour always seems to be 3 x material costs, more or less. So $100 in material is $300 labour for a total of $400 for the job plus travel/fuel costs of course. Also fully agree that quality of workmanship is key to success as well as keeping a clean work space at all times. Super important to my clients!
I am a retired guy who does pretty good drywall work for mostly friends and Fam. I only work when I want to so I'm under no great pressure. I usually charge about $25 an hour and they either pay for the materials or supply them. I don't use hot mud and I always have to come back 3 times. I charge from the time I leave my house till I get back. I have no idea how competitive this price is but it seems to keep me happy and nobody has complained yet. Great video Ben! I know how to do some of the work pretty good but had no idea what to charge. Thx
Really depends where you are. Low for a big city. Probably fairly average for a more rural area. The only thing that really matters is that it’s enough for you.
Great advice as always! I wish I had seen this video about 4 years ago LOL. (I've definitely gotten better since starting hah.) The way I've tried to explain pricing to customers (usually 9-5 people) is this: The reason your employer doesn't pay you for your commute is because you only start making them money when you arrive, whereas I start losing money for all the time in a day that I'm not on the jobsite. If they try to refute or retort in anyway, I make a joke about them paying me a 'fancy pants salary.' Also whoever commented about customers saying "when can you start?" being a tell that you bid too low is DEAD ACCURATE.
Not a contractor here. I love reading what you contractors are saying about this video. It’s all very sensible and respectable. When I was young, an old guy told me “If you are going to work for a living, you might as well get paid for it”.
Anyone hiring a drywaller should watch this so that they realize why they are being charged the price they are. After watching so many "VC videos" we obviously know how true Ben's comment " & how much I hafta not care" , is not even possible considering the masterclass level he puts into each project. (Needs to look good from his house :)
I'm a sparky with a small company, my dad started it 35 years ago and taught me alot about pricing smaller jobs that he's always hated doing. Even for the bigger grocery stores we do, you wouldn't believe how bad some of these new contractors are at pricing them, undercutting jobs and basically pricing at cost. Small projects are the worst for time wasting, trips to pick up material and return trips. A job may be an hour or two but there are times when there's a days worth of wasted time. Which is why many people say they won't even get up for 4 hours worth of work. Our minimum charge for a service call is 3 hours plus a truck charge. If it's more than 3 hours we charge accordingly and any material has a 100% mark up. If you don't want to pay that, then call someone else and let them do it for free, I have over head expenses to pay for, I'm not just looking to make a wage
I’m glad to see my wish granted! I asked about this a couple of months ago and am glad I did! I lived in Vancouver from ‘90 to ‘98 so I have a pretty good idea of how much it costs to live there. Even back then the wages and living costs were grossly disproportionate. I can imagine how bad it is now. And the property taxes! Oh my fucking god!!!
Great video ! Covers the issues I find everyday, doing renovations. I would add , tools ,cost of tools, and vehicle travel costs.Try to plan in your estimates, replacment of your work truck at some point.
These times are tough! We’re getting a lot of rejected quotes for small jobs. A recent example is a quote to replace two interior doors. Rip the doors down, router the hinges, bore the doorknob holes, etc. I charged $250 each door (customer provided slab). She said I was out of my mind and I had to do the good ol’ walk of shame! 😅
Doesn’t sound unreasonable to me. If it went well you would have made decent money and if it was a struggle fest you would have made wages. You can’t really expect a tradesperson to spend the better part of their day at your house for much less than $500. People just don’t understand how much we really make at the end of the year. They think we are making money hand over fist.
I did a job like this, replace 2 interior doors including all new holes/mortices/hardware, trimming doors to size, adding nameplates and painting, customer provided the 2 doors. I think I charged around $250-$300 total and hated myself the whole time I was doing it, especially as I was doing all the mortices by hand with chisels. Not worth it at all. It was a therapists office in the expensive part of town too so youd think he'd have some empathy and tip me, but ultimately it was my fault for not charging correctly from the start. I wish I had walked away lol
I appreciate your tips. I’m a handyman and do a decent amount of drywall repairs. I have to say that the zipwall was one of my best purchases. Customers are pretty impressed when I set that up.
New-ish subscriber here Mr. Ben. I have fallen in love with your content. The kind but direct, sincere, and very natural way you present soothes my weary soul. Keep up the good work!
As someone who has done a mish-mash of trade work, and lots of my own DIY, if I am going to hire someone to do a job, all I need to know is how much they are gonna charge. I don't need a breakdown of all their costs. Just repeat back to me exactly what you think I am asking for, (so we know we are on the same page) and tell me how much you think that work is worth. If I think it's fair, we shake on it and discuss the when. (smaller jobs, bigger jobs should be in writing) If I think it's too high, or out of my budget, but we are close, I will ask if there is something we could change to bring the price down. Could be something simple that I can handle, or something I don't need right now.
Spot on man! As a young man starting out this is a big thing I've realized. I won't break down bids. The bid is free so either you like it or you don't. Stop taking advantage of free bids.
When the customer walks in with the home owner and think Dexter is in their house you know you are on the right track. Long Live Mud !! Excellent content as usual.
You are one of the top finishers on yt and a very good teacher. I've been hand finishing for about 45 years which means I'm a grouchy old man. I think I've commented on one of your videos and that means I probably told you you were doing something wrong. Ignore that. You have a damn good channel. "I always wanted to be an old man" - Tom Waits. PS I worked piece work for many years over top quality hanging ( those hangers were so good you often had 150 board houses that didn't have a single screw that was protruding ). That's the only way you get speed and a good final product.
This is a great video, if you ever find the time, and I'm sure alot of people will agree with me maybe not, but you should post a video explaining how to deal with difficult customers and when and how to take the appropriate action to approach the situation based on your experience, you're the nicest guy I've seen on here but you're also firm and not a bullshitter which makes it hard for me to believe anyone is difficult with you, but that would be a great video to see, it would help out alot of people that are just starting off on their own.
Love the videos Ben, would really like to see a video on how to properly finish drywall around a tub/shower surround where the nailer flange meets the drywall. Couldn't find a really good version of that for my situation.
You cover the joint with trim, but it never looks great because the fibreglass tub surround is all round edges and never quite straight. When I've done these I would often cut the top edge off a colonial shoe moulding on a table saw and use that little strip of wood to make it work.
You are asking about a couple of ways. 1- Cheap way like Ben's at hotels, with mud, and a crack, or space to the fiberglass, then caulking , to hide all sins ,,, 2- Some careful planning, at the intitial stage of reno. Cut down or use a small piece of wood trim, as noted, yes the paint will peel eventually. Tile or plastic trim Zip strip drywall tear off butted to the fiberglass. Down at the floor, is where all the trouble will start, if not done well. Moisture from showering ,,,, .
I really appreciate you sharing more of the business aspect of the construction world. I just started my own company a few months ago, and there is an endless list of wisdom to be learned on these topics. I would love to learn more about how you got started and how you manage your business and time/schedules!
Hey Ben thanks so much for your insight! I worked for a production home builder for 18 years as a warranty service manager, site supervisor and a site assistant and never had a hot clue how to price out small jobs, like drywall patching. Now that I've got my own business this estimating a price has and continues to be challenging to figure out. But thanks for this information and encouragement, I'm going to pass this video on to my partner. I'd love to see you go through how you estimate jobs that require your tool belt instead of your favorite trowel!
I'm an apprentice electrician, but having done a little paint and patch, and some basic carpentry work, i can appreciate the difference between a production tradesman, and a custom tradesman. I have always done custom work, and it, by necessity, costs more and pays higher. Dont get me wrong, we need production tradesmen who pump out the volume and get it done fast. And i always try to streamline things and make them MORE EFFICIENT. But to take that speed only mindset and put it into a custom setting doesnt work. We work time plus materials most of the time, and what results is a better product, because we take our time to make it exactly what the customer wants. That's basically what you're outlining here, if you're going to do custom work, charge custom prices, and work at custom speed.
This is a great perspective for how to price jobs! I’ve always figured my price on how long I thought it may take plus about $100 for materials on a small patch. With drywall, mud, tape, screws, backer material, primer and paint it’s about $60-70 plus a mark-up for having to go get the materials.
Great advices! Thank you for that! I’m an artist but I used to do small handyperson jobs to earn some extra money back in the days. I ALWAYS charge the time it takes me to get to the job and back (not at the same rate as the work on site of course, but still…) and I also ALWAYS charge half an hour 'arrival time' to get an overview over the situation and preparing the actual job. And I have never not needed that half hour. Also, for my art works, I factor everything in, production cost, my time, my experience, and -what a lot of us artists tend to forget- storage! Some of my works easily take 10 to 15 years before being sold, so I factor in the time I have to take them to exhibitions, unpack, install, take down, pack, bring back to storage,… and also the cost of my storage (rent). Then there is advertisement, endless studio visits, newsletters, business cards, collector dinners,… all that stuff that I pay and that adds to the price of an art work. The most important thing you mentioned: Customers have the choice of saying yes or no to your price. Nothing more, nothing less. If they don’t want to pay your price, you don’t need these customers.
I paused this at about 1 min 20 sec. I will preface this by saying i love this man's videos and ive learned ways to save time because he is a great teacher. Drywall isnt my main thing but get a few jobs a month because I have a good reputation with quality outcomes. My biggest problem is i used to always try too hard to be the most helpful on the low. I was selling myself short and losing my hard earned money from my full time construction job to be a good person but it fucked me. My labor rate is cheap in my area of sw FL but i mark up materials by 15% across the board and added trip charges like how most companies charge a service call to come to the place of the work. Ive done work free for older folks who are struggling and usually they will give something. Anyone who has spent their late childhood and adult life learning trades should know their worth, dont sell yourself short and dont rip people off. It took me years to find that balance and not only take losses
He is so right on his "bonus tip" in terms of if the prep/framing is done correctly and plumbing and square walls it changes production time so much. I did a renovation project on a 1920s wood frame stilt house and I was shocked at the time it took for me to have a product I was merely ok with from replacing subfloor, refinishing the original tongue and groove flooring, tearing out the plaster closet walls that restricted the size of the only bathroom. I really wish I would have found your videos sooner. I have profound respect for your knowledge, honesty and overall great character!!! Thanks so much Brn
As a non-contractor, I appreciate this video helping me understand the expense vs. profit elements of the job. Honestly--and maybe it's just me--I don't necessarily agree with the idea that customers should never see a breakdown of materials costs etc. For myself, if I get a quote that seems high but I can see the cost of the materials and understand the labor and travel involved with making the job happen, I would be more sympathetic and empathetic to accepting the job at the quoted cost. I think a lot of customers see just a dollar amount and have no idea why it costs so much (if it's pricey to them), and being able to understand the math behind it would dispel any notion of someone just being a greedy worker. I know it's a risk though, because some customers will probably just make things difficult, but if it were me, it would really help sway me to accept the offer. I want workers to not lose money because making a living is why they're doing the work in the first place. I think most people just want to understand and have the assurance that they're not being ripped off, and there are plenty of unscrupulous people that DO rip people off and give the good guys a bad name.
Reading through the comments, as a customer, I could handle several different ways to do the job pricing/cost. It comes down in large part to trusting the person for me and vis-versa the contractor/tradesperson trusting me. With trust, this covers working through so many situations including all being humans that make mistakes sometimes. For me pricing/cost is lower importance vs the quality of the work, catching things along the way that need fixed or could be improved, and having an on-going good working relationship for future jobs. (I have a great main contractor for many yrs and similarly a vehicle mechanic where this has worked well.) Thanks VC for the many videos and efforts to make them happen!
Excellent video. I think you could add an extra rule : try to get info on your customers. A lot of problems can be avoided by knowing who you are about to work for.
every small job is half day minimum....your right though your paying for experience and also responsibility... guy shoots a screw thru a px line or gas line who is gonna fix that....or better yet the guy who knows if you have any resistance while screwing stop and dont do it!.... experience and accountability go along way if a customer is gonna fret over half a bag of mud than yeah maybe not a good idea to even take the job, lol.....its like $10
Yes, those unforseen rare but expensive problems, like a screw into a water pipe, or you break an expensive tool, those also have to be priced in, and I think that's what many contractors don't think about when pricing -- the black swans. But they do happen.
The thing some customers don't realize - in USD $, a can of texture is $27, a single roll of scotch blue is almost 9. At least mud is pretty cheap. But on a small job from patch to paint, there's still almost the same amount of prep and cleanup.
Excellent! I've been starting to take on side jobs as of late. Some for friends where I just work out an hourly wage and some sort of end price idea but that usually won't fly with the general public. The last job I did the guy kept adding on which became a real pain in the ass when it came down to getting paid. it worked out in the end but I ended up having to guilt him into getting it straight. Thanks!
@@vancouvercarpenter Customer: It's only 1 wall to paint Me: Exactly! That's why im only asking for $40 extra Customer: Ok well what if I paint the bottom half the wall, then you only have to paint the other half? How much for that? Me:.......
I work in Texas, and on holes in the ceiling I am not coming out for less than $600 per patch. Holes in the wall, $400 if they are small, $600 if they are bigger. Multiple patches? $750 minimum to do that job. I've never had a problem keeping clients, and keep my workspace clean and free of dust with painters' plastic. It's tough out there, but all our walls in Texas are textured so you're patching, texturing, and painting each job. The quality speaks for itself.
I charge $500 minimum for a basic patch. Price goes up as additional things need to be factored in. $250 for each trip is super reasonable if you’re doing a good job, are clean, and reliable.
I hire contractors based on my own pay scale. $500 would be 16 hours of work for me in my trade bring home wages. If the job can be DIY in less time than that for that price, I'll do it myself. If the job takes 16 hours or more, you're hired.
The Star Trek - Scotty Model! (1) You see the Need and you know the Worst-case-scenario {WCS} cost. (2) Overstate both to the {Captain /Boss / Customer}. (3) If it turns out to be WCS, you’re covered. If it’s average or much less than expected, or you are done under time - you can discount your price and [ Vwa-La! ].…you’re a “Miracle Worker!”
In this day and age I would think if you're honest about WHEN the job is going to get done, an complete a good job on the agreed date and on budget, that would be a means to getting a good client referral list. We contacted a few different people about a bathroom reno, only one showed up to look at the job, and he never called back with a price.
Okay that last one just hurts, Ben. Every skilled job on a construction site used to get you a house, wife and 2 kids. Good luck with that in Vancouver, haha. That said, I'm glad you brought up the little things like bad prep, and disposal, etc. Just like people trying to count calories, they always cheat it a little bit in their head but your waist line and your wallet know the truth..
That’s why I learnt to DIY these small jobs. The quotes for small jobs are outrageous, but I understand how they would go broke if they charged what I would consider “fair”. (Yeah, there are real markups on the market these days, but I would consider it expensive even without that)
I do a lot of small drywall repairs but I usually charge by the hour. Oh no, you say! Too many variables and potential to lose money by just quoting a price. My customers are either owners or real estate agents. I explain how it works, the process, how long and how many visits. Haven't lost money and have very happy customers. And I'm very clean which impresses everybody and gets referrals.
That little bit of extra is the profit. If you are in business for yourself, even a side job (not just a hobby) then a profit should ALWAYS be added. Why charge what you would get paid working for someone else where they provide all the jobs and admin work. All you have to do is show up and work. For the added time and work of getting the clients and estimating takes extra time that needs to be billed as well, or factored in, and even that is not the profit. Think about how large corporations work. They hire someone for admin work, another for bookkeeping, someone for managing, another to do the actual job, ect. As a small indepent business, you are wearing all of those hats so you need to charge as if you were multiple employees. Just because you are smaller doesn't mean you should charge less than those companies. The only thing they may have that cost a bit more is their overhead (facilities, more lights on, more vehicles, etc.). But remember, large coprorations also charge less because they get big tax incentives and deductions, and sometimes cheap labor. Plus good lawyers to work around some tax cost, etc. As an indepentent, you don't qualify for those resources yet you still need your vaction pay, insurances, emergency funds, a bit extra for liability, and so on. Don't sell yourself short. I'm still struggling with this myself and hard to pass jobs but I'm doing it. There are always other jobs so if I don't get the job, I don't get it.
I used to contract elevators. I would have an estimate work check off sheets for each type of job. The last item on each was sundries 5% of the job for tools, rags, cleaners, drill bits, PPE ect. The more accurate the estimate the more often you do not have a loser.
Your work is your name so do a great job as often as you can if you are looking for repeat customers. I've always said that if the worst thing anyone can say about you is that you are expensive then I can live with that.
If I was 30 years younger, this info would really be helpful. I’m now retired & only work on my own place for now. Only learned about the drywall profession in the last 5 years. Definitely not a pro but I can do a good enough job to pass muster.
Always had the opinion that the customer is first and foremost paying for me to not be somewhere else I’d rather be, the price has to account for that.
Really appreciate you speaking as a contractor to other contractors, thought I was watching essential craftsman for a second.
Pride in your craft shines through. And keep up the good work!
Good video , great advice . I always tell my clients that the shock of a high price last less longer than the results and consequences of bad workmanship.
That is a great perspective
Painter here. I don’t ever price by the square footage, I price by the day or half day. I used to mark up paint but found it tedious to explain to clients. So instead, they get my price but I start my day clock when I get to the paint store. I've never had clients question that and generally make more than I used to with the mark up. That being said, repeat clients get a good price on small jobs, you are right, loyalty and appreciation needs to cut both ways in any relationship.
weird markups do nothing but erode trust. compensation for time is transparent
@@lil-j-waters , it isn't a "weird mark-up". Every business that sells you a product marks it up or else they would go out of business. They never give the client their wholesale price. Like I said, I make more money billing the time but people are generally too dumb to figure that out.
We dont mark up material, but we do charge time to get it. But that means if the client picks up the material, they save $100/hr
@@TimboSlice-ox6wd , they wouldn't get my discount unless I order it. Also, the discounts aren't chain wide, so they would have to go my store which doesn't work well.
@@iainstewart371 more often than not we get it ourselves, but giving the customer the option makes them feel more involved, saves us time and them money. We pretty much have one supplier in our area and we can call ahead. Works well sometimes.
Ben, That last thing you said about piece work" really hits home" I'm a general contractor, but many years ago before I got my license, I worked for a local commercial & residential framing contractor as a carpenter. at one point, work really slowed down and the boss told the lead carpenter & me to find a fill in job until the next big project started in a couple of months. The lead & I teamed up & went to work for a tract home builder & it was a piece work job. It was a very "rude awakening" watching these other piece work crews ( the speed & "roughness" of their work was amazing). We lasted about a week before the superintendent came over & told us we were too slow & "let us go". The irony though was that he then hired us on an hourly pay scale to fix all the mistakes from the "piece crews" throughout the tract. I still remember one particular fix. The piece crew had framed an opening for a patio slider door on the 1st floor of a 2 story home. They made a mistake & set the 6 x 12 header about 2" too low & when the GC told them to fix it, these "rocket scientists" pulled out a chain saw & notched the header up the 2" inches in this load bearing wall.
Absolute pearls of wisdom here, Ben! As a handyman I do small patches because no one wants to do them. I have electrical and plumbing contractors handing my name out as the drywall repair guy after they knock holes in the walls. It's a great entry level way to get new customers for other work that I do.... and I would add your comment on cleanliness is huge! It sets you apart from many contractors by far. Thanks so much for this video, my friend!
I'm a handyman in the UK. This is great advice all round not just for drywall. Most of my work is little jobs and it's so easy to under price. Some of my best customers tell me how expensive I am (I'm not by the way, I know full well what the market rates are), funny thing though is they keep having me back.
Quit saying the same exact post on every video you comment on.
Ben these types of videos could be a really great new addition to your content types. You have a lot of knowledge and experience and passing it down to newbies is super valuable. Also, its easy videos to make 😂which you deserve
Thank you!!!
The gem of a "takeaway".......... "You don't lose money on work you don't do".
Made my day.
The other gem... "how fast I have to work and how much I don't care to make money at the job"
Since I am the guy that everyone says will never compromise (true) I get fewer and better "jobs".
Thanks, great video no matter the profession.
:)
Good advice Ben. Tradsmen should take the time make a spreadsheet or list on paper of every single thing they do for a small job. Leave nothing out. Then put how much time each little thing it takes to do. Then add materials, consumables, etc. You will be surprised how it adds up. Then do the job and reanalyze afterwords.
All great advice in my opinion. Yes as contractors we may have a stock of some different mud, tapes and supplies but that does not mean we should give it away either. Also as you stated we shouldn't have a breakdown charge "$1" for using a partial roll of tape $2 for screws etc. Even with a general line item of "disposable materials" this doesn't cover the use of our equipment whether it be drops, knives, drills, dust containment and so on. If it's multiple trips in an occupied home then there is likely set up and clean ups multiple times. It can be hard to not take little jobs for a cheap charge but giving away labor and materials for pennys on the dollar isn't right either. I'm glad to hear your perspective regarding this touchy area. As a homeowner I also am aware that most garage door repairs, plumbers, HVAC, electricians and appliance repairs have minimum trip charges similar to an auto repair shop diagnosing repairs. This fee is sometimes waived if the work is contracted (but not always) and even then I feel it is incorporated into the job price. Yes we want to build relationships with customers and obtain more lucrative work but at the end of the day.. time is money and it takes years to have the experience to efficiently complete work to a satisfactory level in a timely and neat manner. If we make it look easy and fast it's because we spent years learning and we should not be penalized for that! Nice video as always
Ben, I work in excavation, and everything you said applies to our trade as well. Accounting for travel time, prep, and disposal is especially important for us on small jobs. It takes us just as long to load equipment, prep, and clean up on a small job as it does a larger one, so we’ve learned to work that into every quote. Thank you for sharing your wisdom!
You quote the price. If he says "when can you start?" you know you were low. If he grumbles but agrees, you are getting close. If he says " I have to talk to my wife (or partner, or dog)" you probably quoted a price that will work well for you and he may go for it. If he says "I'll get back to you" - he won't.
Nailed it
A guy we did some work for once said, "I want a win-win situation. I want a win for me and a win for you. If we both dont win, i dont wanna do business with you."
@@TimboSlice-ox6wd Sometimes difficult to know going in if his idea of a win is you making no money.
@@stihl0256 🤣🤣touche. But this guy meant win-win where he gets a fair price, and we make the money we deserve.
Thank you for this video..... even though ive been doing construction for over 50 years..... reviewing these concepts is valuable.....we forget something that we need to do
I'd love to see you expand on how to keep a clean site. Drywall dust sure is the bane of a job so I'd love some tips from you on setting up for a small job.
When all else fails, youre in a luxury condo with expensive furniture and trying to sand a patch where the ceiling meets the wall... I do the "tent". Using painters tape and a dropsheet roll, literally create a mini tent, from floor to ceiling, and enclose yourself inside with ladder and sanding tools, recommend mask and goggles and a longsleeve hoodie for this. Make sure to dust the walls off before you finish. If it's a patch near the ground, create a ceiling for your tent so you can save materials.
When youre done, take off the hoodie/gloves/mask/shoes, use a shopvac to clean up any extra dust (if youre careful there wont be much), and collapse the tent inwards, rolling it into a ball before tying up in a trash bag.
It can take a lot of materials though and extra time so I usually charge $5-$10 extra in materials plus whatever time it takes ( I do hourly for small jobs).
Or you can sometimes get away with just covering the ground (for like 6 feet in each direction), then sanding carefully while holding your shopvac hose next to the sander to catch the dust. In any case, whatever time you take setting up will be much less than the time it takes to clean up, I always tell customers this.
@@thomasdreifelds218can’t make any money working by the hr. People ask but if I wanted to work hourly I would go get a normal everyday job.
Also Zipwall system. Use the poles if it's not just a corner so you can trow as mich ddust as you please. Of course eith no furnishings or other items. In those cases slow and light sanding preferable with vacuum, box fan with filter attached to the infeed, floor coverings, plastic visqueen around the area, cut with razor instead of multitool or other machines, etc. If you sweep, small light strokes otherwise your just lifting it onto the air.
Ben, I started a handyman business on the side a couple years ago to help send the kids to college. Your videos have helped me tremendously with so many jobs! From taping, muding, sanding, texturing, plaster repair and so on. Love your expertise, and you are a master! Thanks!!!
Gas, liability insurance, business license and TAX etc all have to be paid for. A good rule of thumb is twice what you want to earn per hour (which includes set up and tear down) plus materials. An hour on the job is usually several hours of work and most of the money is going to material and overhead. If you're not factoring in the cost to you you can't bid jobs. Don't be afraid to toss out a huge bid on small jobs because it's small. Remember that it's oftentimes as expensive to do a job that has 1 hour of work as it is to do an 8 hour job. There's a reason why minimum prices exist and can work. Not sure about the drywall business but I know in other trades it's easy to get small jobs confused with easy ones. I wouldn't call in a professional on a small job because I know I'm going to have to pay his tax insurance healthcare etc and when I do it it's just my time. For me that means I can take 3 or 4 times more time and still come out ahead.
It's probably my favorite video to date.
I'm sure you had a similar experience to mine in Alberta where trade school does virtually nothing to prepare you for pricing jobs.
Material estimation, sure, but there is so much more to pricing a job.
An awesome video Ben, thank you! I’ve gotten much cleaner as I’ve gotten better at drywall, one tip I learned is to use a big box fan with a furnace filter taped to it in the window pointing out so your keeping negative air pressure in the workspace and you’d be surprised how much dust the filter catches!
That does work well👍
what MERV or filtrete rating do you recommend for catching drywall and mud dust?
Haven't seen one of your videos for a few months now. Got into your channel heavily while doing a personal remodel down to the studs 3 years ago. You look TREMOUNDOUSLY more healthy. Not that you looked bad before, but you look a few years younger now. More meat on the bone. Less hollowness around the eyes. I'm glad the channel is treating you well!!
Just good lighting:)
This info could easily be applied to a lot of professions. I’m a professional photographer and am constantly being asked to do jobs for the‘experience’. I have thirty years of experience and have thousands of dollars of equipment. Customers don’t have clue about what it takes to run a business.
😂 the “experience” of working for less than your worth gets old quick!
My goodness! It is a joke. The one that kills me is do my photos for free, and I will give you references. I’m like, who are you? Who the hell do you know? Nobody! And who is going to pay if my expensive equipment gets damaged?
You must have
You must have a minimum rate that you charge regardless of how long a job lasts. If you charge $200 an hour, someone will say, “Since I only need you for 15 minutes, that’s $50. Nope. That $50 is not worth getting out all that equipment, packing it, transporting it, setting it up, breaking down, and putting it back. As that model said, “It’s not worth getting our bed for.”
If you do wedding photography, customers must realize that the photographer is with them before, during, and after the wedding (sometimes months). But the photographer and videographer are normally hired last and nickel-and-dimed the most. Planners, caterers, bakers work hard, but are done before or right after the wedding ends.
Feel your pain, buddy. Feel comfort knowing that it isn’t just you….
Thank you for pointing out all the extra work and time that we put into with all construction projects! This is why so many companies fail because of underbidding jobs because of inexperience and not being confident with their ability to price the project appropriately. The word “Confidence” is what most successful companies have and only a few businesses owners have it!
This is why I do small jobs myself now whether it's drywall or brakes on my car. The rates you guys have to charge makes my wallet very shy. But my skills have grown tremendously over the years.
I’m glad you can see that we have to charge them. In most cases I don’t think people are gouging. Some do for sure but most of us are just trying to stay in business.
perfect tips. naturally started ingraining these tips in my bids when doing small works. glad to know I'm not alone. Thanks again for the awarness!
These are the conversations I have with myself everyday thank you Ben
Vancouver carpenter is the best.
This type of content is exactly what I'm looking for ! Thank you .
Sure wish this kind of content was around 45 yrs. ago when I got into handyman work. Learn everything the hard way. From pricing to just doing the work.
Great video! I sure could have used this info 2 years ago when I started my painting and drywall repair business. I had to figure this all out on my own and learn what works and what doesn’t.
I agree on all points, although I do separate materials and labour/travel on my estimates. You have me thinking now that I shouldn’t, maybe I’m giving too much info.
If it’s any help to anyone here starting out, I have found that in most cases, whatever my material costs are, the labour always seems to be 3 x material costs, more or less. So $100 in material is $300 labour for a total of $400 for the job plus travel/fuel costs of course.
Also fully agree that quality of workmanship is key to success as well as keeping a clean work space at all times. Super important to my clients!
I am a retired guy who does pretty good drywall work for mostly friends and Fam. I only work when I want to so I'm under no great pressure. I usually charge about $25 an hour and they either pay for the materials or supply them. I don't use hot mud and I always have to come back 3 times. I charge from the time I leave my house till I get back. I have no idea how competitive this price is but it seems to keep me happy and nobody has complained yet. Great video Ben! I know how to do some of the work pretty good but had no idea what to charge. Thx
Really depends where you are. Low for a big city. Probably fairly average for a more rural area. The only thing that really matters is that it’s enough for you.
Around here, we get 3x your price. Nobody should ever complain about your price.
I get 6x that price in suburbia.
@@theamerican4609 giving away his skills at 25. Shitty drywallers want 40 an hr to fuck everything up. 🤣
I am a consultant and these pricing concepts also apply to my job. Great advice
Thanks again Ben! Keep Up The Good Work & we will see you in your next video.
Great advice as always! I wish I had seen this video about 4 years ago LOL.
(I've definitely gotten better since starting hah.)
The way I've tried to explain pricing to customers (usually 9-5 people) is this: The reason your employer doesn't pay you for your commute is because you only start making them money when you arrive, whereas I start losing money for all the time in a day that I'm not on the jobsite. If they try to refute or retort in anyway, I make a joke about them paying me a 'fancy pants salary.'
Also whoever commented about customers saying "when can you start?" being a tell that you bid too low is DEAD ACCURATE.
MAN! I wished I could forward this video to each customer that I'd ever come in contact with... GREAT VIDEO!
As a potential customer, this is really useful to me too. Thanks!
Not a contractor here. I love reading what you contractors are saying about this video. It’s all very sensible and respectable. When I was young, an old guy told me “If you are going to work for a living, you might as well get paid for it”.
Anyone hiring a drywaller should watch this so that they realize why they are being charged the price they are. After watching so many "VC videos" we obviously know how true Ben's comment " & how much I hafta not care" , is not even possible considering the masterclass level he puts into each project. (Needs to look good from his house :)
I'm a sparky with a small company, my dad started it 35 years ago and taught me alot about pricing smaller jobs that he's always hated doing.
Even for the bigger grocery stores we do, you wouldn't believe how bad some of these new contractors are at pricing them, undercutting jobs and basically pricing at cost.
Small projects are the worst for time wasting, trips to pick up material and return trips. A job may be an hour or two but there are times when there's a days worth of wasted time. Which is why many people say they won't even get up for 4 hours worth of work.
Our minimum charge for a service call is 3 hours plus a truck charge. If it's more than 3 hours we charge accordingly and any material has a 100% mark up. If you don't want to pay that, then call someone else and let them do it for free, I have over head expenses to pay for, I'm not just looking to make a wage
I’m glad to see my wish granted! I asked about this a couple of months ago and am glad I did!
I lived in Vancouver from ‘90 to ‘98 so I have a pretty good idea of how much it costs to live there. Even back then the wages and living costs were grossly disproportionate. I can imagine how bad it is now. And the property taxes! Oh my fucking god!!!
Great video ! Covers the issues I find everyday, doing renovations.
I would add , tools ,cost of tools, and vehicle travel costs.Try to plan in your estimates, replacment of your work truck at some point.
These times are tough! We’re getting a lot of rejected quotes for small jobs. A recent example is a quote to replace two interior doors. Rip the doors down, router the hinges, bore the doorknob holes, etc. I charged $250 each door (customer provided slab). She said I was out of my mind and I had to do the good ol’ walk of shame! 😅
Doesn’t sound unreasonable to me. If it went well you would have made decent money and if it was a struggle fest you would have made wages. You can’t really expect a tradesperson to spend the better part of their day at your house for much less than $500. People just don’t understand how much we really make at the end of the year. They think we are making money hand over fist.
@@vancouvercarpenter agree 100%
Just installed 8 doors in a rehab
I did a job like this, replace 2 interior doors including all new holes/mortices/hardware, trimming doors to size, adding nameplates and painting, customer provided the 2 doors.
I think I charged around $250-$300 total and hated myself the whole time I was doing it, especially as I was doing all the mortices by hand with chisels. Not worth it at all.
It was a therapists office in the expensive part of town too so youd think he'd have some empathy and tip me, but ultimately it was my fault for not charging correctly from the start. I wish I had walked away lol
@@thomasdreifelds218 Thanks for replying! It makes me feel a bit better knowing that I in fact wasn’t out of my mind. 😂
This information works for most any trade job.
I appreciate your tips. I’m a handyman and do a decent amount of drywall repairs. I have to say that the zipwall was one of my best purchases. Customers are pretty impressed when I set that up.
New-ish subscriber here Mr. Ben. I have fallen in love with your content. The kind but direct, sincere, and very natural way you present soothes my weary soul. Keep up the good work!
Started my painting company 2 years ago, I try do time and material.. Finally realized I gotta add 1 day on to those week long jobs :)
As someone who has done a mish-mash of trade work, and lots of my own DIY, if I am going to hire someone to do a job, all I need to know is how much they are gonna charge.
I don't need a breakdown of all their costs.
Just repeat back to me exactly what you think I am asking for, (so we know we are on the same page) and tell me how much you think that work is worth. If I think it's fair, we shake on it and discuss the when. (smaller jobs, bigger jobs should be in writing)
If I think it's too high, or out of my budget, but we are close, I will ask if there is something we could change to bring the price down. Could be something simple that I can handle, or something I don't need right now.
You’ve done this before :)
I’m a freelance graphic designer, and this advice applies to what I do as well. Thanks for this!
Spot on man! As a young man starting out this is a big thing I've realized. I won't break down bids. The bid is free so either you like it or you don't. Stop taking advantage of free bids.
Invaluable!!!
Thank You Ben!
When the customer walks in with the home owner and think Dexter is in their house you know you are on the right track.
Long Live Mud !!
Excellent content as usual.
Exactly;)
You are one of the top finishers on yt and a very good teacher. I've been hand finishing for about 45 years which means I'm a grouchy old man. I think I've commented on one of your videos and that means I probably told you you were doing something wrong. Ignore that. You have a damn good channel.
"I always wanted to be an old man" - Tom Waits.
PS I worked piece work for many years over top quality hanging ( those hangers were so good you often had 150 board houses that didn't have a single screw that was protruding ). That's the only way you get speed and a good final product.
This is a great video, if you ever find the time, and I'm sure alot of people will agree with me maybe not, but you should post a video explaining how to deal with difficult customers and when and how to take the appropriate action to approach the situation based on your experience, you're the nicest guy I've seen on here but you're also firm and not a bullshitter which makes it hard for me to believe anyone is difficult with you, but that would be a great video to see, it would help out alot of people that are just starting off on their own.
I'm fairly certain I've watched more of your videos than any other content creator on any other social media site
Love the videos Ben, would really like to see a video on how to properly finish drywall around a tub/shower surround where the nailer flange meets the drywall. Couldn't find a really good version of that for my situation.
I don’t see that here very often. Usually just in hotels when I’m travelling.
You cover the joint with trim, but it never looks great because the fibreglass tub surround is all round edges and never quite straight. When I've done these I would often cut the top edge off a colonial shoe moulding on a table saw and use that little strip of wood to make it work.
You are asking about a couple of ways.
1- Cheap way like Ben's at hotels, with mud, and a crack, or space to the fiberglass, then caulking , to hide all sins ,,,
2- Some careful planning, at the intitial stage of reno. Cut down or use a small piece of wood trim, as noted, yes the paint will peel eventually.
Tile or plastic trim
Zip strip drywall tear off butted to the fiberglass.
Down at the floor, is where all the trouble will start, if not done well. Moisture from showering ,,,,
.
I really appreciate you sharing more of the business aspect of the construction world. I just started my own company a few months ago, and there is an endless list of wisdom to be learned on these topics. I would love to learn more about how you got started and how you manage your business and time/schedules!
Hey Ben thanks so much for your insight! I worked for a production home builder for 18 years as a warranty service manager, site supervisor and a site assistant and never had a hot clue how to price out small jobs, like drywall patching. Now that I've got my own business this estimating a price has and continues to be challenging to figure out. But thanks for this information and encouragement, I'm going to pass this video on to my partner.
I'd love to see you go through how you estimate jobs that require your tool belt instead of your favorite trowel!
I'm an apprentice electrician, but having done a little paint and patch, and some basic carpentry work, i can appreciate the difference between a production tradesman, and a custom tradesman. I have always done custom work, and it, by necessity, costs more and pays higher.
Dont get me wrong, we need production tradesmen who pump out the volume and get it done fast. And i always try to streamline things and make them MORE EFFICIENT. But to take that speed only mindset and put it into a custom setting doesnt work. We work time plus materials most of the time, and what results is a better product, because we take our time to make it exactly what the customer wants.
That's basically what you're outlining here, if you're going to do custom work, charge custom prices, and work at custom speed.
This is a great perspective for how to price jobs! I’ve always figured my price on how long I thought it may take plus about $100 for materials on a small patch. With drywall, mud, tape, screws, backer material, primer and paint it’s about $60-70 plus a mark-up for having to go get the materials.
Great advices! Thank you for that!
I’m an artist but I used to do small handyperson jobs to earn some extra money back in the days.
I ALWAYS charge the time it takes me to get to the job and back (not at the same rate as the work on site of course, but still…) and I also ALWAYS charge half an hour 'arrival time' to get an overview over the situation and preparing the actual job. And I have never not needed that half hour.
Also, for my art works, I factor everything in, production cost, my time, my experience, and -what a lot of us artists tend to forget- storage!
Some of my works easily take 10 to 15 years before being sold, so I factor in the time I have to take them to exhibitions, unpack, install, take down, pack, bring back to storage,… and also the cost of my storage (rent).
Then there is advertisement, endless studio visits, newsletters, business cards, collector dinners,… all that stuff that I pay and that adds to the price of an art work.
The most important thing you mentioned: Customers have the choice of saying yes or no to your price. Nothing more, nothing less. If they don’t want to pay your price, you don’t need these customers.
I paused this at about 1 min 20 sec. I will preface this by saying i love this man's videos and ive learned ways to save time because he is a great teacher. Drywall isnt my main thing but get a few jobs a month because I have a good reputation with quality outcomes. My biggest problem is i used to always try too hard to be the most helpful on the low. I was selling myself short and losing my hard earned money from my full time construction job to be a good person but it fucked me. My labor rate is cheap in my area of sw FL but i mark up materials by 15% across the board and added trip charges like how most companies charge a service call to come to the place of the work. Ive done work free for older folks who are struggling and usually they will give something. Anyone who has spent their late childhood and adult life learning trades should know their worth, dont sell yourself short and dont rip people off. It took me years to find that balance and not only take losses
He is so right on his "bonus tip" in terms of if the prep/framing is done correctly and plumbing and square walls it changes production time so much. I did a renovation project on a 1920s wood frame stilt house and I was shocked at the time it took for me to have a product I was merely ok with from replacing subfloor, refinishing the original tongue and groove flooring, tearing out the plaster closet walls that restricted the size of the only bathroom. I really wish I would have found your videos sooner. I have profound respect for your knowledge, honesty and overall great character!!! Thanks so much Brn
Great information. Thanks for sharing!
As a non-contractor, I appreciate this video helping me understand the expense vs. profit elements of the job. Honestly--and maybe it's just me--I don't necessarily agree with the idea that customers should never see a breakdown of materials costs etc. For myself, if I get a quote that seems high but I can see the cost of the materials and understand the labor and travel involved with making the job happen, I would be more sympathetic and empathetic to accepting the job at the quoted cost. I think a lot of customers see just a dollar amount and have no idea why it costs so much (if it's pricey to them), and being able to understand the math behind it would dispel any notion of someone just being a greedy worker. I know it's a risk though, because some customers will probably just make things difficult, but if it were me, it would really help sway me to accept the offer. I want workers to not lose money because making a living is why they're doing the work in the first place. I think most people just want to understand and have the assurance that they're not being ripped off, and there are plenty of unscrupulous people that DO rip people off and give the good guys a bad name.
Reading through the comments, as a customer, I could handle several different ways to do the job pricing/cost. It comes down in large part to trusting the person for me and vis-versa the contractor/tradesperson trusting me. With trust, this covers working through so many situations including all being humans that make mistakes sometimes.
For me pricing/cost is lower importance vs the quality of the work, catching things along the way that need fixed or could be improved, and having an on-going good working relationship for future jobs. (I have a great main contractor for many yrs and similarly a vehicle mechanic where this has worked well.)
Thanks VC for the many videos and efforts to make them happen!
I take jobs based on my gut feelings about the customer.
Had a customer try and talk me down on a repair. My answer was "I can stay home and lose money, I don't have to out and actually lose it".
That’s so true about how much you want to lower your standards. Thanks for the video.
INCREDIBLE advice! Thank you!!
Excellent video.
I think you could add an extra rule : try to get info on your customers. A lot of problems can be avoided by knowing who you are about to work for.
Great stuff, applicable to other independent trades and sub trades.
every small job is half day minimum....your right though your paying for experience and also responsibility...
guy shoots a screw thru a px line or gas line who is gonna fix that....or better yet the guy who knows if you have any resistance while screwing stop and dont do it!....
experience and accountability go along way
if a customer is gonna fret over half a bag of mud than yeah maybe not a good idea to even take the job, lol.....its like $10
Yes, those unforseen rare but expensive problems, like a screw into a water pipe, or you break an expensive tool, those also have to be priced in, and I think that's what many contractors don't think about when pricing -- the black swans. But they do happen.
The thing some customers don't realize - in USD $, a can of texture is $27, a single roll of scotch blue is almost 9. At least mud is pretty cheap. But on a small job from patch to paint, there's still almost the same amount of prep and cleanup.
Excellent! I've been starting to take on side jobs as of late. Some for friends where I just work out an hourly wage and some sort of end price idea but that usually won't fly with the general public. The last job I did the guy kept adding on which became a real pain in the ass when it came down to getting paid. it worked out in the end but I ended up having to guilt him into getting it straight. Thanks!
No “while you’re here’s” without a confirmed written approval of the increase in cost.
Never do that. That “one small change” comes with a lot of surprises.
@@vancouvercarpenter Customer: It's only 1 wall to paint
Me: Exactly! That's why im only asking for $40 extra
Customer: Ok well what if I paint the bottom half the wall, then you only have to paint the other half? How much for that?
Me:.......
Thanks Ben !!
This is all GREAT advise !! :)
I work in Texas, and on holes in the ceiling I am not coming out for less than $600 per patch. Holes in the wall, $400 if they are small, $600 if they are bigger. Multiple patches? $750 minimum to do that job. I've never had a problem keeping clients, and keep my workspace clean and free of dust with painters' plastic. It's tough out there, but all our walls in Texas are textured so you're patching, texturing, and painting each job. The quality speaks for itself.
I charge $500 minimum for a basic patch. Price goes up as additional things need to be factored in.
$250 for each trip is super reasonable if you’re doing a good job, are clean, and reliable.
I hire contractors based on my own pay scale. $500 would be 16 hours of work for me in my trade bring home wages. If the job can be DIY in less time than that for that price, I'll do it myself. If the job takes 16 hours or more, you're hired.
Yup. That’s a reasonable price for both parties IMO. Could change depending on local rates.
Always overprice. Then cut the final cost to match a reasonable cost.
The Star Trek - Scotty Model!
(1) You see the Need and you know the Worst-case-scenario {WCS} cost.
(2) Overstate both to the {Captain /Boss / Customer}.
(3) If it turns out to be WCS, you’re covered. If it’s average or much less than expected, or you are done under time - you can discount your price and [ Vwa-La! ].…you’re a “Miracle Worker!”
In this day and age I would think if you're honest about WHEN the job is going to get done, an complete a good job on the agreed date and on budget, that would be a means to getting a good client referral list. We contacted a few different people about a bathroom reno, only one showed up to look at the job, and he never called back with a price.
Fantastic info! Wish I had this 5 years ago. As always, thanks Ben!
Okay that last one just hurts, Ben. Every skilled job on a construction site used to get you a house, wife and 2 kids. Good luck with that in Vancouver, haha. That said, I'm glad you brought up the little things like bad prep, and disposal, etc. Just like people trying to count calories, they always cheat it a little bit in their head but your waist line and your wallet know the truth..
Jason!!!!🙂
Great vid .You should do "How to price painting jobs" Next thats also very tricky ..Stay well
I’m not a painter.
That’s why I learnt to DIY these small jobs.
The quotes for small jobs are outrageous, but I understand how they would go broke if they charged what I would consider “fair”.
(Yeah, there are real markups on the market these days, but I would consider it expensive even without that)
I do a lot of small drywall repairs but I usually charge by the hour. Oh no, you say! Too many variables and potential to lose money by just quoting a price. My customers are either owners or real estate agents. I explain how it works, the process, how long and how many visits. Haven't lost money and have very happy customers. And I'm very clean which impresses everybody and gets referrals.
Great, concise video. Thank you.
That little bit of extra is the profit. If you are in business for yourself, even a side job (not just a hobby) then a profit should ALWAYS be added. Why charge what you would get paid working for someone else where they provide all the jobs and admin work. All you have to do is show up and work. For the added time and work of getting the clients and estimating takes extra time that needs to be billed as well, or factored in, and even that is not the profit.
Think about how large corporations work. They hire someone for admin work, another for bookkeeping, someone for managing, another to do the actual job, ect. As a small indepent business, you are wearing all of those hats so you need to charge as if you were multiple employees. Just because you are smaller doesn't mean you should charge less than those companies. The only thing they may have that cost a bit more is their overhead (facilities, more lights on, more vehicles, etc.). But remember, large coprorations also charge less because they get big tax incentives and deductions, and sometimes cheap labor. Plus good lawyers to work around some tax cost, etc. As an indepentent, you don't qualify for those resources yet you still need your vaction pay, insurances, emergency funds, a bit extra for liability, and so on. Don't sell yourself short. I'm still struggling with this myself and hard to pass jobs but I'm doing it. There are always other jobs so if I don't get the job, I don't get it.
Great advice
Thanks for sharing
Good one! Thanks!
If David Bowie was a Carpenter/Drywaller.
Excellent tips, thank you!
Nobody makes enough to earn a living in Vancouver .. :)
Thanks, dude!
I used to contract elevators. I would have an estimate work check off sheets for each type of job. The last item on each was sundries 5% of the job for tools, rags, cleaners, drill bits, PPE ect. The more accurate the estimate the more often you do not have a loser.
Your work is your name so do a great job as often as you can if you are looking for repeat customers. I've always said that if the worst thing anyone can say about you is that you are expensive then I can live with that.
If I was 30 years younger, this info would really be helpful. I’m now retired & only work on my own place for now. Only learned about the drywall profession in the last 5 years. Definitely not a pro but I can do a good enough job to pass muster.
Always had the opinion that the customer is first and foremost paying for me to not be somewhere else I’d rather be, the price has to account for that.
Thank you man you're awesome!
I would like t say thank you for everything you have been sharing with us . Your videos were very helpful to develop ,my skills ...God bless you
You are correct sir, if I’m providing materials the customer has no business asking about the cost.
I'm a maintenance guy (UK) and as far as possible avoid working for homeowners.
I agree 100% with you
This guy knows his shit…100%
"It's so easy to hemorrhage profit." Well put.
As a handyman, 50% accept my drywall patch estimates, and the rest can't understand why it's so expensive.
Always love your videos…clear and easy to listen to…and straight to the point.