WATA Games Grading Modern Era Video Games & Unregulated Collectible Markets: Let's Discuss!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- My thoughts on this topic my surprise some of my viewers, so I decided to set up this video in a unique way to prove my analysis. As some of you are aware, WATA Games is looking to start grading modern era video games and some in the video game collecting community are not happy. I don't understand this at all, as most well respected grading companies already grade modern era mass produced collectibles and have been for years. It is NOT the role of the grading company to police or patrol the collectibles market place. It is the ROLE of the grading company to stay OUT of the secondary market and remain unbiased! Let's discuss this in depth with some examples to prove my point.
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Yup
Imagine if Wata existed in the 80s and 90s and advised ppl what they should and should not be collecting and grading at that time. That's the whole point of natural appreciation and genuine collectability, you don't have voices guiding the market and things play out based on actual demand.
TLDR: Graders shouldn't be saying squat about squat, except offering a service to meet demand.
100% agree, especially on that last part. Truth is about this kinda market is that the only thing kinda requires someone manipulating the collectible for it to ever become super valuable. Let me explain. Humans have valued gold since it was first discovered. Almost every human who stumbled upon the precious metal thought it was shinny and pretty. But then take something like the tens of thousands of toys that have been released since the 80s. 99% of those things are worth crap. And while a few have been viewed as “desirable”, they still stay within that reasonable price range. It isn’t until people in very specific positions of influence to create markets that start stretching into the 10K range. Doesn’t matter what that item is (TMNT, retro games, etc). Personally, I think anyone buying any collectible at !0000X the original MSRP are a strange lot. With all the things one can spend their money on, it is just kinda silly to pay, say, 100K for a piece of paper with a specific Pokemon on the front.
But that’s what make our species so interesting. The fact that this can even occur is fascinating to me. Hence why I’m interested in these markets without ever participating in them.
As always, great content! Hope you get some sleep!
The best advice is usually not the most popular advice!!
You’re channel is awesome. I just watched two videos. Lots of good things to think about.
The House of Fata Morgana is on my backlog, I got it on Vita! Glad to hear you loved it! :D
From an investment point of view, never understood why people get things graded when the grading fees will be more than the resale value of the item (I get it if you just like the item and want to keep it in your personal collection)
Time doesn't stand still, their resale window may be years out.
Well I bought a God of War for $1500 graded it for $200 and sold it for $5k so it just depends on a few factors. But I knew it would get a very high grade. It was a vga 95+ btw. I also bought a Winged Dragon of Ra for $500 paid $150 to grade it, got a psa gem mint 10 and sold it for $1700. With all that being said for most part youre 100% right.
thank you so much, shawn! awesome video as always 👍
Thank you!
Past and current gen games are usually affordable, so maybe people are mad if WATA who is arguably the catalyst for the current price spike, _also_ will grade newer games, and potentially push those prices up as well and deplete the market for physical copies?
Thanks for the video, Shawn. Collectors put too much trust in these grading companies. The grading industry is one big rackets. For all grading companies, their guidelines are a joke. Grading is mostly subjective due to the ambiguous and arbitrary grading standards. Moreover, i cant believe people actually trust these companies to authenticate autographs. I doubt PSA or SGC has a Graphologist on staff. There is ample evidence that suggests these grading companies cant even detect trimming. Counterfeits have also passed their detection. More importantly, there is no transparency whatsoever. The individual grading your item likely has no experience, oversight, and given too much discretion. These companies have too much power and influence, because we allow it. We must demand more transparency.
blockchain transparency?
Love your vids Shawn. Keep it up!
Don't forget to sleep bro! Good for you!
Third-party grading married to sales, auction houses and appraisal is a nightmare and a scam.
Well said. I'm a big fan of personal accountability. If nothing illegal is being done and nobody is getting deceived then it's every man for himself.
I’m glad that investor collectors in America are able to successfully use grading companies like WATA to make profit. Personally I hope they don’t catch on in Australia the secondary market is expensive enough as it is. And people who insist on buying sealed games here don’t really need them assessed by a third party and encased in plastic
Grading and authentification is primarily an American phenomenon, at least at present.
The day I send an autograph (or a trading card, if grading) in to the likes of PSA, pay them a fortune for some unknown 'expert' to decide if it's genuine, encapsulate it in plastic, and then wait a year or so to return it, is the day I need my head examined.
I appreciate that people find comfort in it, and to each their own, but I much prefer to educate myself, and if I'm unsure, then seek the opinion of a well-respected expert, at a well-respected auction house.
PSA/DNA have been around for the blink of an eye, compared to the established auction houses.
Awesome video!! Still think graded video game are the worst thing that happened to games collecting but yeah people being mad at wata for grading modern game is just dumb
I couldn't care less about this particular issue, but it seems to me that people would be righteously upset for one particular reason: If WATA can grade modern games then people would have to wait longer to get games graded. If I want to get my Hagane graded and have to wait because Timmy is grading his Super Mario 3D Allstars, that's an issue, no? His grading have no significance (very small market value increase), but mine does (pretty sizable market value increase according to PriceCharting) and waiting another year for this reason seems to be cause for irritation. This is solvable by increasing staff, but I have a feeling they are backing up orders by design (marketing, making the company seem desirable).
Thank you very much
Hello Reserved Investments and fans of his, does anybody have the WATA population reports from november/december that had the information for CIB games saved anywhere? They seem to have pulled them down from the website.
What I really hate about grading on any new modern item is that sellers would try to play he pop count game thinking your getting the "Rarest" high grade item to hit the market. In order for someone like me to go out & get any Coin, Comic, Video game....etc. graded the desire of that item must be in demand. Your best bet is to hold on to any new modern item for 10+ years to see growth in that particular item.
I think what upsets people is when they already have a 6+ month estimated turn around on the lowest price tier and come out saying they are contemplating expanding what they will grade.
That said I don't think modern era sealed games are going to have the same bright future as we now see in the stuff that is 20 to 30+ years old. Lot's of people are now actively collecting sealed modern era and that simply just wasn't the case until maybe 7 to 10 years ago. I routinely see people buy multiple copies of the same game or clear out a game on sale to keep sealed copies for the future. I'm sure there will be value there but I doubt it will be the same.
indeed, Shawn has always said that there is major speculation and manipulation in these markets and there always has been so tread carefully and listen to Shawn when he spits the knowledge and information on the antiques and collectibles market ;)
WATA can grade what they want, but i don't think thats why people dislike WATA. I dislike how WATA and HA manipulate and create inflated values, and I'm interested to see how the court case goes.
Shawn. People have asked me “why would you grade that” on a few MTG cards I had in the past (I sell on eBay, I had the cards graded to broaden my inventory)
These cards have had some of the most surprising returns. And it’s ALWAYS someone who likes the character or art.
I WAS first to market with a lot of that stuff and would NOT do the same nowadays. I was paying $7-$12 to grade in bulk. Per card. With subs. 4 mo turnaround. Things are different now. I don’t see how the same strategy would be viable nowadays…
Paying 20 bux for bulk grading is not worth it for most cards sending in 100 cards for $2000 does not justify for 100 slabs worth 1$ each and 2-4 hours of work max thats like an hourly rate of $1000-$500 thats even more than an IT consultant or surgeon!
We out here
I cant speak for anyone else. And I haven't graded many items. but for me i grade them just to preserve them for my own collection. Not to sell.
Late night abusive Shawn, slapping that innocent Lego set around.
My only issue with them grading modern games is that they still have a substantial backlog of retro games to grade. It almost seems like they are looking for more excuses not to grade the retro games people have already sent in. The longer they can keep the hype going and the illusion of rarity on many of these items, the more money they can make before people realize how artificial the market is
I'll buy them from you for $1 a piece when the bubble pops, but you have to get them out of the boxes first.
I feel like it took you a long time to get to the point which we all knew was coming 😂 I guess the only reason I can think of why people are complaining about WATA now is either the backlog they already have is too much or the fact that their reputation is in the shitter.
Good chat anyway. Look forward to the next one ✌🏻
Wata released pop reports on ps1 games. I thought there were way more ps1 games getting sent in.
What is up with AFA and their submissions, do you know? I have been waiting forever to send things to them for grading and they have been shut down for a very very long time now. Also, their "Create a custom case" is shut down too. Do you know whats going on over there? Ive tried to call them, but they are not answering their phone either.
Feel like I am taking crazy pills with the premiums people pay on brand new product with over 50% PSA 10 rate in Pokemon. Pop reports (and sometimes prices) significantly higher than 10 and 20 year old cards. Some of the highest values and highest liquidity in all of Pokemon is just buying raw mint brand new cards, paying PSA $50 to grade them, then reaping in $100+ net profits after all fees on cards you can just continue to churn and burn. I've largely been not participating in it because it feels like it makes no sense but might have to join them since I surely won't beat them.
It's stupid because we are not naive anymore
I dont mind grading modern stuff like cards but definitely not for $20! I would consider $5 for modern stuff.
The only argument i can see for this is that these companies are already incredibly backlogged and have horrible turnaround times for processing these items.
If they want to open up the grading to modern items then the customer should expect that they open up their production and staffing significantly to address the current delays and handle the new business of modern games.
But I doubt that they will do that, because the customer is captive and there are no better options.
I've always taken full responsibility for things I invest in/purchase. It is up to the individual to do his or her due diligence when making an investment/purchase, Any investment/purchases that I've made that didn't turn out like I thought or planned I take full responsibility for and try to view it as a learning experience/lesson and keep moving. Sometimes lessons don't come cheap! I Always tell people to try to be a wise man and learn from the mistakes of others, Could save you some money or trouble. Take care
Did you see Luna crypto currency collapse in one day. Did you see it. You can talk about it. Luna collapse due their own stable coin. You can make a video about it.
Crypto is the biggest joke out there…
hope you'll be getting some quality sleep soon man
Is there such a thing as 1st party grading?
Yup, it’s when you grade something yourself…🙄 👀
@@ReservedInvestments I can’t tell if you’re joking or not…
Completely agree. WATA are assholes, but they are in the business of grading games. Why wouldn't they be able to offer that service for new games? I know people will say that because they have a huge backlog of games to grade/return, but if a guy wants to send in his Switch game anyways, that's on him.
There’s literally nobody in the comic book community have an issue with CGC grading a brand new comic book. This video is confusing.
That’s exactly the whole point! So out of all the comments on this video, you are the first, ‘this is confusing.’
30th!
Wata has become the non grading collectors whipping boy so it's no surprise that this view that they are stealing money has been taken, it's really no different than them being bashed repeatedly by not having pop reports while VGA has never had them and promised them last year. Wata brought this hobby into the light and it attracted lots of investors, speculators and believe it or not collectors into the hobby in a new way and the games are meant to be played crowd are just upset, that's really what it is, they hate that their hobby has this aspect in it, if VGA had the impact WATA did they would feel the exact same way about them. That's the plain truth
They did that to themselves. A grading company should never ever be involved in the secondary market. WATA hurt their own credibility. The plain truth is they deserve the hate and any upcoming lawsuits as a result of that, but this is a separate issue.
Why do people want Graded games anyway? Who will buy in future if they've never played and gained emotional connection?
YES BUT...by the time you get your copy returned and graded it will not be modern era anymore. :-)
😂🤔🙄👍
I’m starting to think grading is a fad.
modern shit.... hahahaha yes 100% :)
LAWSUITE VS. WATA COMING... is going to destroy the bogus and right the market in this over inflated, blasphemous and moronic skyrocketing of "vintage" games and the value of many of these items that are in abundance and that key players involved have manipulated to take advantage of the youtube & eBay geek who thinks they are stepping into the next great collectible realm.
You are more optimistic than me, but part of me hopes you are right!
Sounds like WATA has been unfairly given a harsh rep? It just takes a small group of people on social media to “stoke the flame” or “lead the charge” and conveniently the rest of the spiteful, misguided sheep within the community will follow because who has time to think for themselves these days 🤷🏻♂️
I believe that all grading companies have a moral obligation if not legal obligation to contact you in that matter..... reason there market is investment the short , think of Susie Orman and her legal case against a certain investment brokerage company about doing things where the client cannot afford the risk. It not to prevent stupid people from being stupid with their money but ethics and morals is a must in any business that's is selling an investment
Theyre not selling an investment. Theyre selling a service.
@@Dire_Hit what dose that have to do with ethics and morals in regulated and unregulated markets? The grading company serves to turn a product into an investment . I not saying they shouldn't grade any thing or everything I simply saying from time to time they need to call and find out why is Timmy wants to do something stupid , last if the grading company was selling a service instead of investment , they would offer incapulation without a grade.
They do not...nor should they.
@@ReservedInvestments so you feel that there shouldn't be any kind of fiduciary in the collectable market? Wata should most because they are playing both sides of the market. They are basically playing brokers to collectable IPO'S
@@ReservedInvestments I am not saying they shouldn't take Joe or Jane's money. Bur when they get a some what obvious non-valueable item it should throw some kind of red flag. And after a short discussion and Timmy says shut up and take my money then take it. We need Ethical transactions. Not the wolf of heritage street.