A few weeks ago I filled in their "sorry you're leaving" feedback survey. Gave the reason as uncompetitive broker fees. Now they raise them even further. Gave me a chuckle at least. 🤣
Thats true, I've been getting assisted by a FA for almost a year now, I started out with less than $200K and I'm just $19,000 short of half a million in profit.
Thing is, Vanguard is not just another platform. It's roots are the direct creation of John Bogle. And this huge hike in fees for the small investor, and those just starting out is a direct betrayal of the trust in Vanguard whch many have, and also, really, of the values of John Bogle.
I remember the old Vanguard. Lowering fund fee's, Factor funds, cheap platform fees. Now they have higher platform fees, no Factor funds, fund fees have remained frozen with almost all not being the cheapest vs competition. Oh and an app nobody needed. Great work management!!! /S
My theory is they felt forced into making the app, as there was a lot of push for it in the UK. US market is a lot richer, and has much lower expectations in the space, with money transfers still taking forever over there. They’re trying to make their money back for the app build costs.
@@Themystergamerr Can you set up trading 212 isa account and add money directly with a debit card, & easily set up monthly direct debit savings . I tried set up an Isa with invest engine. But couldn't put any money in because they said I needed Internet banking and an open banking something. So I cancelled it. I wanted to try investengine because no platform fee for the isa and no dealing charges for the etfs, plus buying fractional etf shares available. It would have enabled me to set up a whole ETF portfolio with only a small monthly investment, outlay. And really good low cost etfs available. But it sadly wasn't to be. Is trading 212 the same
can you do a video with alternatives to vanguard. I manage my ISA, SIP and a child ISA using their ETFs and would like to leave as this would make them very uncompetative, but im unsure of the best options.
I’ve got a small pension pot from a previous employer of just over £2000 that I built up doing my apprenticeship. I moved it into a Vanguard SIPP about 6 months ago as I no longer pay into it. For Vanguard to charge me £48 to keep this here is absolutely criminal.
I contacted Vanguard about their charges some time ago. Their response was quite alarming. It equated to, like it or lump it. This recent change is not surprising.
This is probably the last straw for me. I was just about comfortable with the higher fees than elsewhere because of trust and potential support but now they've increased the fees which will definitely affect me. So going from just about affordable to anything more is not enticing. Every time I try to manually add money to the account, it fails multiple times and ironically the only time I've ever needed to contact support is when I've been trying to get money into the account. Far more trouble than it's worth now with the added cost on top.
I have just under £100k with them so I'm staying but I won't be setting my son's up with Vanguard once they turn 18 now. They will only be drip feeding for the first few years so it's not viable anymore.
@@Pensioncraft Nice little overview, thanks 🙂 What I'd really like to see on the back of this is a comparison of the providers out there based on fees, similar to what you've done in the past (though I can't seem to find the specific old video I'm thinking about now).
They are having to increase their fees because of the amount of compensation they are paying out for their shocking complaint handling record. In four years I have made three complaints already. Two are referred to FSO. They also incorrectly deduct income tax from a small UFPLS payment then failed to issue a P60 or send the “tax” to HMRC. Be careful, and check closely all drawdowns.
I only have a small investment on the Vanguard platform as most of my investment is through my LGPS. This means though as a low investor my fees will increase almost five times. Invest Engine (IE) have just announced they will allow SIPP transfer in so I will be moving my SIPP to them from Vanguard and then I will either move my S&S ISA from Vanguard to either T212 who I hold my cash ISA with or IE. I am even minded to move my son's Junior ISA out of the Vanguard platform in principle although if I understood the email from Vanguard correctly the £4pm fee is not applicable to Junior ISAs. Very disappointing from Vanguard as it seems to go against their origins of low cost investing for the masses.
Maybe if they allowed Gilts to be traded, reduced the 375 cap and offered fund discount on OCF it would attract bigger portfolios. Why is VWRP or VHVG the same cost on its own platform ?!
This won't affect me as I buy predominantly on Trading 212. However I setup a SSISA with Vanguard for my mum last year as she found the simplicity of it appealing and her account balance is well under the £32k cap currently. Can't justify her paying £4/month in fees now so I guess we'll be shopping around in January.
Just to confirm, we are only affected, if we buy a etf/fund through the Vanguard website directly? So if we switch to another platform like T212 etc, it makes no difference and will remain the same.
I am above 32k so i am not going to do anything. My girlfriend on the other hand…. I just convinced her to start investing 6 months ago, she was so proud she was putting 100 quid a month in an s&p500….. imagine her face when i told her you will get taxed 4% on every monthly payment….
The idea that there are no drawbacks to free or low-cost investment platforms is misleading. Many make their money through hidden fees, such as payment for order flow, stock lending, and worse spreads on trades compared to more transparent platforms. In the end, you do pay for what you get.
They are covered by the FSCS though, their reference number is 801128. I am sure you already know this but that covers you for up to £85k should they become insolvent etc.
So its time to shift over to Trading212 then? Ive just moved house so cannot save all that much into my ISA each month. This new approach to fees makes sticking with Vanguard absolutely untenable. ISA and SIPP are about to be closed and shifted over to a new provider. Shame as i have no other complaints about Vanguard!
So doesn’t not effect folk on vanguard S&P500 over on trading 212 app or is it same accross the board new 2 investing only got my 1st £547 investing in vanguard S&P500 over on trading 212
@TROZJAN only affects charges when using the vanguard app. No change for you as you use the trading212 app. Good luck with your saving/investing. If you stick at it with regular deposits you will ge amazed what it looks like in 10 years.
I'm with AJ Bell to, they do have a wider range, however you have to pay £1.50 each time you buy and sell which is a nuisance, and their platform fee is 0.25% I believe. But you can buy Vanguard funds through them.
I can't get over-excited about this change, although for investors with low sums I can fully understand their displeasure. It's an added cost. £4 is the price of a coffee - so forgo one a month or jump ship. As Ramin says - it pays not to be loyal. It is relatively easy to change brokers. I have 3. II for my SIPP, IWeb for my S&S ISA and AJB for a historic ISA. Fees and fund choice plus support dictate my choice. Don't get mad - take action.
Luckily it doesn't affect me but it would have done a few years back. I'll stay with them because, well, Vanguard, Blackrock, etc. own the world. They're not going to go bust. It's a cynical money grab, though and they may regret it. Not what Jack would have approved of. In fact, I think he'd be quite alarmed at what it's become.
Is it still the case that if you transfer your ISA from one platform to another the process is that they sell your old holdings in the old platform and transfer the amount into your new ISA? This means you then have to re-purchase the holdings, but at the new higher price if they have gone up in value.
Of course your new platform may not offer the things you want to move across either. I have an ISA with HL which has a chunk in single gilts. My other account is with T212 who are a lot cheaper but I'm not moving my HL assets across as they don't offer gilts. Also, while HL are expensive, their support is much better than T212 in my experience
You can sometimes do an In-specie transfer which means the funds are transferred as-is. If the new provider doesn't have one of the funds you could consider switching into a fund they do have, before transferring.
Just want to point out it works out cheaper up to £9k ISH to go down the managed route then switch to the self managed which then it becomes £48 a year up to £32k
It’s fine for me as I pay the fixed 375 quid fee but both my kids have less than 10k each so will be swapping over their SIPP and ISA’s to the same supplier of their LISA’s.
I've switched already, but the time it takes will mean I will probably have to pay a couple of months' fees before the transfer takes place. Pretty horrible way to exit.
If you want to move money from Vanguard Stocks ISA to Invest engine is it as simple as selling shares in the Vanguard account, withdrawing, and then depositing in the Inevest engine account?
The flat fee is regressive - it punishes those with lower balances the most. This means it will punish younger investors / those just starting out. It also adds an element of complication because the flat fee in £ is a variable fee in %. If you were just starting out at the minimum direct debit of £100/month - and you made 9% returns, you'd make £48. The account fee alone will consume all of that (this is before fund fees). Presumably they will have to examine their minimum contributions in light of this change? I am unimpacted, but my wife will see her fees increase substantially, and we may just move both our accounts to simplify future admin. Finally, putting this out in early December - not very Christmassy...
WOW, that's more than my BANK...BANK!!! And while my bank has a fairly high fee for buying and selling...their portfolio management fee is lower. For domestic stocks - free. Still, I think people are overreacting by leaving the platform altogether because of this, unless of course their portfolio is not too big, then that I can understand. (That being said Vanguard is not available in my country, which sucks for me)
Could it be that this is the first part of their strategy? i.e. to discourage the smaller investor initially, but later on to lower their fees for the customers who stick around and whose portfolios are larger?
I don't think Vanguard will care much about all the small investors with small portfolios who are 'up in arms' at having to pay a few pounds more a year. They're clearly going for investors with larger portfolio sizes and, as long as they can attract and retain them, they will make lots of money.
There’s a major problem with their approach. I have a substantial holding with Vanguard but am now transferring away for two reasons: 1) This announcement has resulted in me reevaluating my choice of platform. I have noticed that I can hold the same funds elsewhere for less so I’m off. At the same time my wife is moving her ISA out as it’s modest and will be impacted by the new fees. I’ll also be moving my daughter’s JISA even though she won’t be affected. 2nd) As a matter of principle the fee goes against everything the company was founded on. Jack Bogle wouldn’t be too pleased. With widespread negative press and various TH-cam finance channels highlighting this change Vanguard may have underestimated the fallout. Their competitors are taking advantage with Investengine and Monzo for example highlighting what’s happening at Vanguard
Vanguard is never going away/bankrupt, which can't be said the newer, small platforms - esp important if planning to hold investments for decades. That certainty is worth it for some. Can be argued fee change is relatively insignificant given that peace of mind, and as portfolio grows over time the change becomes inconsequential anyway (in relation to the 4/month fee if 32k)
This is an excellent point that I don’t see many people talking about. I’m annoyed by Vanguards change of fees, but I’m hesitant to switch to other platforms like T212 or InvestEngine BECAUSE they don’t have any fees. I want confidence that my platform of choice is financially sustainable so some fees are welcomed. I know all of these platforms are FSCS protected, but it would still be disruptive if one of them were to fail. Very conflicted by this situation and yet to make a decision.
How does this work across accounts? we have recently consolidated to Vanguard, with >£32K in a SIPP, this years allowance (£20K) in an ISA and approx £15K in a GIA. Do we pay 0.15% on all accounts or just the SIPP? and £48/year on others?
I’m not sure what to do here. Thinking of moving to Trading 212 but I worry that other platforms may follow suit. I am invested in the FTSE Global All Cap, which is not available on any other platform. I guess I would have to sell my holdings in Vanguard. If I were to move, I would reinvest in VWRP using the proceeds from the sale. Bit of admin involved here and for what?
@@mrjf5249 think I’m going to move to Trading 212. Selling the Vanguard fund and reinvesting it will put me over the £20k allowance so will have to transfer over officially
I had a S&S ISA with Vanguard... I got bored of the 0/rubbish app, constant website logouts, restrictive fund choice etc. Transferred to Freetrade, invested in exactly the same vanguard funds, cost less in fees, nice app... not sure what Vanguard are doing lol
@CaboloNero well as a baseline yeah, sinxe then ive found better ones from ishares etc. but what's ridiculous is freetrade offered vanguards accumulating world fund, that even vanguards own platform didn't!
Subscriber for a while. I need some advice please. With Vanguard and at the start of my investment journey. Currently less than 1500 in a SIPP and Stock and Shares ISA. I put into the FTSE Global All Cap Index Fund Accumulation and say I spend £1.40 on something I pump that 60p in there as well. I round up to the nearest pound and throw my lose change in. Which platform should I switch to now to allow me to do this and a lower fee? Thanks 🙏
I just began the transfer if my SIPP out of Vanguard today. I hold about £2.5k in FTSE Global All Cap Accum, it just occured to me that if the transfer goes through in the next 3 weeks i might lose out on the accumulated dividends, does anyone know how this works please
£4 a month is way too high. Like an extra subscription cost. I think I will be moving as I only started in April this year and have a few grand only in there.
Sorry im confused when i read there email message yesterday. I have over 325k with a pension and a isa with vanguard. But i have a GIA with only 2k in. So are they going to start charging me £4 a month for my GIA or not because of the other accounts?
No. From the FT: From January 31, the charges will apply to clients who self manage their stocks and shares Isa, general account or personal pensions. Currently, clients pay 0.15 per cent on any balance, capped at £375 a year. This will remain the same for clients with invested balances worth more than the £32,000 cut-off, and for Junior Isas. The company also announced its managed Isa fee would go down from 0.30 per cent to 0.20 per cent.
Maybe they don’t really want the business. The money they make from the in built management fees on the ETF funds etc must be huge. There have hundreds of billions invested with them. The retail business is probably messy and resource intensive to manage. Lots of people on the phone asking silly questions etc. Maybe they’d rather leave that business for Trading 212 and others?
I guess the managed ISA hasn’t attracted enough money and why should they. Best to go with lifestrategy which do the same thing at lower cost. In my opinion, Vanguard are complicating things…. Against its own founding principles. I use ii for VG funds but I have to say VG much better interface, ii need to improve in this.
@ it’s not a fund issue, it’s a minimum investment issue. If you hold under 32k in ANY vanguard fund on vanguard platform you will pay more. For example if you held 20k in a fund the platform fee was 0.15% of this, so 30 pound per year. Now they have set a minimum of 48 pound so you are 18 pound a year worse off. To be honest, there were cheaper platforms elsewhere before this kicked off. If you link vanguard , ok if you hold under 32 k , then it is more expensive now but is it really meaningful when you do the maths. At least the cap of 375 at top end is still present and that will be biggest thing for long term investors.
aren't they doing some sort of wind down of their broker business in the US too? i have this memory of them offloading customers to other brokers for some reason. they just want out i think. stick to what they do best.
Just wondering, why would you pay the fee out of cash instead of from the invested amount instead? Given you’ll pay the fee pre tax it seems more beneficial to pay via the account instead of from a direct debit?
Assuming its a GIA - If you pay via the invested amount. My assumption is they sell your funds to cover the account fee. Which makes capital gains possibly incurring and harder to be intentional with. If an ISA or SIPP. We have allowances we can contribute to those longer-term tax free wrappers for a reason. One might prefer not to spend money inside of a tax-free wrapper... and let that continue to compound.... just using surplus cash in your pocket for fees to maximise growth in the tax-free wrapper
@@17dragoncut understood the first one but a SIPP not so much, given your fee is pre tax realised gains why would pay that instead of doing it through selling the asset? The difference could be 47% in tax/NI
You can’t base what platform solely on fees. You shouldn’t say that is important. The sound footings and financial strength should be taken in to account. Strong IT security and secure holding of your assets etc, is just as important.
@GaneshJU What financial strength? Compared to whom? The customers affected by this fee increase are all covered in full by the FSCS, which no amount of IT security (which they clearly aren't on top of anyway, as @zedman422 rightly points out) will improve upon.
A few weeks ago I filled in their "sorry you're leaving" feedback survey. Gave the reason as uncompetitive broker fees. Now they raise them even further. Gave me a chuckle at least. 🤣
This goes completely against their whole philosophy of low cost investing... plus aren't they supposed to be "owned by their investors"?
Perhaps, owned by their investors in the US but not so in external investor platform markets (such as the UK)
I told them this too yesterday. They effectively shrugged (if an email can shrug). I instigated an ISA transfer to Trading212 today. 😘
Jack’s philosophy at least, not necessarily the mba bros in charge now
what do you mean by "supposed to be"?
Thats true, I've been getting assisted by a FA for almost a year now, I started out with less than $200K and I'm just $19,000 short of half a million in profit.
Vanguard is betraying Jack Bogles' memory and legacy.
Why , your getting the support for a few quid a year, if you want dirt cheap go with trading 212 but don’t complain when you can’t contact them.
💯
The MBA bros in charge at present don't care. They are all about making the most profit
Do you really thing Mr Bogle was not about maximising profit for himself ?@tomi9897
They have to keep that ESG score high
Thing is, Vanguard is not just another platform. It's roots are the direct creation of John Bogle. And this huge hike in fees for the small investor, and those just starting out is a direct betrayal of the trust in Vanguard whch many have, and also, really, of the values of John Bogle.
Jack* Bogle
At £48 a year, someone with a small ISA £1,000 will be charged almost 5%
That's totally insane
Poor Jack Bogle, an insult to his memory.
Obviously vanguard is not for them. And why should it? A serious platform demands serious investors. £1k is pocket money these days
I remember the old Vanguard. Lowering fund fee's, Factor funds, cheap platform fees.
Now they have higher platform fees, no Factor funds, fund fees have remained frozen with almost all not being the cheapest vs competition. Oh and an app nobody needed.
Great work management!!! /S
The app just logs in to a less functional version of their website, it's a complete waste of time. I prefer to use the website still.
My theory is they felt forced into making the app, as there was a lot of push for it in the UK. US market is a lot richer, and has much lower expectations in the space, with money transfers still taking forever over there. They’re trying to make their money back for the app build costs.
Thanks Vanguard. Now looking for other platforms.
Dodl
Consider Trading 212
@@Themystergamerr Can you set up trading 212 isa account and add money directly with a debit card, & easily set up monthly direct debit savings . I tried set up an Isa with invest engine. But couldn't put any money in because they said I needed Internet banking and an open banking something. So I cancelled it. I wanted to try investengine because no platform fee for the isa and no dealing charges for the etfs, plus buying fractional etf shares available. It would have enabled me to set up a whole ETF portfolio with only a small monthly investment, outlay. And really good low cost etfs available. But it sadly wasn't to be. Is trading 212 the same
@@Themystergamerr It would be good to see a video on ISA transfer to retain tax free status.
@Themystergamerr are they OK?
With just £8k invested in their platform, that is disappointing. My annual cost will go up from £12 to £48.
If someone raises their fee by 400% it would tell me that they clearly don't want your business so I'd transfer out.
Same for me too.
I'm also not happy with how this short notice price change was buried in an email with the subject "Upcoming changes to T&C's"
@@cooper8t Problem is in the UK where else can you invest in mutual index funds with a lower platform fee and no buying, selling fees
can you do a video with alternatives to vanguard. I manage my ISA, SIP and a child ISA using their ETFs and would like to leave as this would make them very uncompetative, but im unsure of the best options.
I’ve got a small pension pot from a previous employer of just over £2000 that I built up doing my apprenticeship. I moved it into a Vanguard SIPP about 6 months ago as I no longer pay into it.
For Vanguard to charge me £48 to keep this here is absolutely criminal.
I contacted Vanguard about their charges some time ago. Their response was quite alarming. It equated to, like it or lump it. This recent change is not surprising.
This is probably the last straw for me. I was just about comfortable with the higher fees than elsewhere because of trust and potential support but now they've increased the fees which will definitely affect me. So going from just about affordable to anything more is not enticing. Every time I try to manually add money to the account, it fails multiple times and ironically the only time I've ever needed to contact support is when I've been trying to get money into the account. Far more trouble than it's worth now with the added cost on top.
Vanguard should counter-balance this rise with a reduction in the TER of their funds.
After over five years since they last did, it is well overdue!
I have just under £100k with them so I'm staying but I won't be setting my son's up with Vanguard once they turn 18 now. They will only be drip feeding for the first few years so it's not viable anymore.
Exactly - same situation for me.
Same here. Will move my kids ISA’s, Pensions over the the same platform as their newly opened LISA
Targeting small investors. Vanguard will lose some market share to “newer” SIPP providers.
Was wondering when you'd do a video on this, their email landed in my inbox just yesterday. Quick to the punch as always, Ramin!
Hope you enjoy it! @JivanPal
@@Pensioncraft Nice little overview, thanks 🙂 What I'd really like to see on the back of this is a comparison of the providers out there based on fees, similar to what you've done in the past (though I can't seem to find the specific old video I'm thinking about now).
They are having to increase their fees because of the amount of compensation they are paying out for their shocking complaint handling record. In four years I have made three complaints already. Two are referred to FSO. They also incorrectly deduct income tax from a small UFPLS payment then failed to issue a P60 or send the “tax” to HMRC. Be careful, and check closely all drawdowns.
Interesting thumbnail. What did Teddy do? 😂
Thanks for the great video and also putting Many Happy Returns to You Tube!
Thanks! 😃 @MrEvans5
I only have a small investment on the Vanguard platform as most of my investment is through my LGPS. This means though as a low investor my fees will increase almost five times. Invest Engine (IE) have just announced they will allow SIPP transfer in so I will be moving my SIPP to them from Vanguard and then I will either move my S&S ISA from Vanguard to either T212 who I hold my cash ISA with or IE. I am even minded to move my son's Junior ISA out of the Vanguard platform in principle although if I understood the email from Vanguard correctly the £4pm fee is not applicable to Junior ISAs. Very disappointing from Vanguard as it seems to go against their origins of low cost investing for the masses.
Maybe if they allowed Gilts to be traded, reduced the 375 cap and offered fund discount on OCF it would attract bigger portfolios. Why is VWRP or VHVG the same cost on its own platform ?!
Thanks for the heads up! I wasn't aware of this. I shall be looking into how to move to another provider today.
Did you not get the email from them?
@user-hp6ls8qy6d I must have missed it!
Glad it was helpful @ba8898
This won't affect me as I buy predominantly on Trading 212. However I setup a SSISA with Vanguard for my mum last year as she found the simplicity of it appealing and her account balance is well under the £32k cap currently. Can't justify her paying £4/month in fees now so I guess we'll be shopping around in January.
Having portfolio on multiple platforms is the right way to go, good to hear!
What platforms please 🙏
@Bobsbud100 a couple were mentioned in the video- Trading 212 and InvestEngine. There are several others, AJ Bell etc.
Why would you have multiple platforms, you just want the cheapest one that sells the stuff you want
Having multiple platforms can actually cost you more. More fees can also make things complicated.
Vanguard are losing their touch…
Thank you for the very detailed summary.
On his X account too
Glad it was helpful @mahamed4744
Just to confirm, we are only affected, if we buy a etf/fund through the Vanguard website directly? So if we switch to another platform like T212 etc, it makes no difference and will remain the same.
I am above 32k so i am not going to do anything. My girlfriend on the other hand…. I just convinced her to start investing 6 months ago, she was so proud she was putting 100 quid a month in an s&p500….. imagine her face when i told her you will get taxed 4% on every monthly payment….
Crazy, 212 it is…
The idea that there are no drawbacks to free or low-cost investment platforms is misleading. Many make their money through hidden fees, such as payment for order flow, stock lending, and worse spreads on trades compared to more transparent platforms. In the end, you do pay for what you get.
Makes sense, platforms are loss making for smaller fund sizes. Also the FCA keeps increasing regulations which costs money to comply.
I would love to move my SIPP to invest engine from vanguard but I'm nervous investing through a loss-making, privately owned company
They are covered by the FSCS though, their reference number is 801128. I am sure you already know this but that covers you for up to £85k should they become insolvent etc.
So its time to shift over to Trading212 then?
Ive just moved house so cannot save all that much into my ISA each month. This new approach to fees makes sticking with Vanguard absolutely untenable. ISA and SIPP are about to be closed and shifted over to a new provider. Shame as i have no other complaints about Vanguard!
Depends how much you have i guess. Hargreaves charge 0.45% and an FX charge of 1% on
So doesn’t not effect folk on vanguard S&P500 over on trading 212 app or is it same accross the board new 2 investing only got my 1st £547 investing in vanguard S&P500 over on trading 212
@TROZJAN only affects charges when using the vanguard app. No change for you as you use the trading212 app. Good luck with your saving/investing. If you stick at it with regular deposits you will ge amazed what it looks like in 10 years.
I'm definitely closing my account and moving to AJ Bell. It's a shame but they're not for us anymore.
I'm with AJ Bell to, they do have a wider range, however you have to pay £1.50 each time you buy and sell which is a nuisance, and their platform fee is 0.25% I believe. But you can buy Vanguard funds through them.
I also use AJ Bell. I like their platform and fees.
I have my ISA and SIPP with AJ Bell, very good customer service. They combined three old workplace pensions within 6 weeks. Impressive.
Bad for a starter but 0.15% is still really good. I won't be moving.
I can't get over-excited about this change, although for investors with low sums I can fully understand their displeasure. It's an added cost.
£4 is the price of a coffee - so forgo one a month or jump ship.
As Ramin says - it pays not to be loyal. It is relatively easy to change brokers. I have 3. II for my SIPP, IWeb for my S&S ISA and AJB for a historic ISA.
Fees and fund choice plus support dictate my choice.
Don't get mad - take action.
Luckily it doesn't affect me but it would have done a few years back. I'll stay with them because, well, Vanguard, Blackrock, etc. own the world. They're not going to go bust. It's a cynical money grab, though and they may regret it.
Not what Jack would have approved of. In fact, I think he'd be quite alarmed at what it's become.
Is it still the case that if you transfer your ISA from one platform to another the process is that they sell your old holdings in the old platform and transfer the amount into your new ISA? This means you then have to re-purchase the holdings, but at the new higher price if they have gone up in value.
Not always. As I had funds that the other provider had they never sold to cash just swapped over the funds
Of course your new platform may not offer the things you want to move across either. I have an ISA with HL which has a chunk in single gilts. My other account is with T212 who are a lot cheaper but I'm not moving my HL assets across as they don't offer gilts. Also, while HL are expensive, their support is much better than T212 in my experience
You can sometimes do an In-specie transfer which means the funds are transferred as-is. If the new provider doesn't have one of the funds you could consider switching into a fund they do have, before transferring.
Just want to point out it works out cheaper up to £9k ISH to go down the managed route then switch to the self managed which then it becomes £48 a year up to £32k
It’s fine for me as I pay the fixed 375 quid fee but both my kids have less than 10k each so will be swapping over their SIPP and ISA’s to the same supplier of their LISA’s.
I've switched already, but the time it takes will mean I will probably have to pay a couple of months' fees before the transfer takes place. Pretty horrible way to exit.
Who did you switch over to if you don't mind sharing
What other platforms offer the Vanguard FTSE Global all cap index?
It’s a great fund. I’m sticking with VG just for that!
Interactive Investor, AJ Bell, Halifax and HSBC. Amongst others.
Well that’s my smaller vanguard SIPP being consolidated into my other then 🤷♂️
Vanguard going against their founder's basic principles is alarming and frankly quite disgusting.
If you want to move money from Vanguard Stocks ISA to Invest engine is it as simple as selling shares in the Vanguard account, withdrawing, and then depositing in the Inevest engine account?
The flat fee is regressive - it punishes those with lower balances the most. This means it will punish younger investors / those just starting out.
It also adds an element of complication because the flat fee in £ is a variable fee in %.
If you were just starting out at the minimum direct debit of £100/month - and you made 9% returns, you'd make £48. The account fee alone will consume all of that (this is before fund fees). Presumably they will have to examine their minimum contributions in light of this change?
I am unimpacted, but my wife will see her fees increase substantially, and we may just move both our accounts to simplify future admin.
Finally, putting this out in early December - not very Christmassy...
There’s always a fee even if the trade is “commission free”. Usually through higher spreads, selling data getting front run etc
Not if you buy ETF tho
Also, what's the likelihood of Vanguard backtracking on this?
I can’t see them backtracking but even if they did it’s too little too late, many like myself have already closed their accounts.
WOW, that's more than my BANK...BANK!!! And while my bank has a fairly high fee for buying and selling...their portfolio management fee is lower. For domestic stocks - free. Still, I think people are overreacting by leaving the platform altogether because of this, unless of course their portfolio is not too big, then that I can understand. (That being said Vanguard is not available in my country, which sucks for me)
Could it be that this is the first part of their strategy? i.e. to discourage the smaller investor initially, but later on to lower their fees for the customers who stick around and whose portfolios are larger?
Often investors get what they pay for. With good service and guidance you may pay more, but if that results in an improved return, then it's worth it.
What happend to get em while they're young ? mantra as this is the opposite
Do all these providers require you to register with a selfie?
I don't think Vanguard will care much about all the small investors with small portfolios who are 'up in arms' at having to pay a few pounds more a year. They're clearly going for investors with larger portfolio sizes and, as long as they can attract and retain them, they will make lots of money.
There’s a major problem with their approach. I have a substantial holding with Vanguard but am now transferring away for two reasons: 1) This announcement has resulted in me reevaluating my choice of platform. I have noticed that I can hold the same funds elsewhere for less so I’m off. At the same time my wife is moving her ISA out as it’s modest and will be impacted by the new fees. I’ll also be moving my daughter’s JISA even though she won’t be affected. 2nd) As a matter of principle the fee goes against everything the company was founded on. Jack Bogle wouldn’t be too pleased. With widespread negative press and various TH-cam finance channels highlighting this change Vanguard may have underestimated the fallout. Their competitors are taking advantage with Investengine and Monzo for example highlighting what’s happening at Vanguard
Vanguard is never going away/bankrupt, which can't be said the newer, small platforms - esp important if planning to hold investments for decades. That certainty is worth it for some.
Can be argued fee change is relatively insignificant given that peace of mind, and as portfolio grows over time the change becomes inconsequential anyway (in relation to the 4/month fee if 32k)
This is an excellent point that I don’t see many people talking about. I’m annoyed by Vanguards change of fees, but I’m hesitant to switch to other platforms like T212 or InvestEngine BECAUSE they don’t have any fees. I want confidence that my platform of choice is financially sustainable so some fees are welcomed. I know all of these platforms are FSCS protected, but it would still be disruptive if one of them were to fail. Very conflicted by this situation and yet to make a decision.
How does this work across accounts? we have recently consolidated to Vanguard, with >£32K in a SIPP, this years allowance (£20K) in an ISA and approx £15K in a GIA. Do we pay 0.15% on all accounts or just the SIPP? and £48/year on others?
As a long time Vanguard investor, this is disappointing to hear. And a PR own goal surely.
Bye Vanguard
So trading 212 is the platform of choice
If it's only the ISA, GIA that you're interested in as they don't yet support SIPPs, been in the pipeline for years yet still no update
Invest engine best for my ISA & SIPP invested in 6:54 S&P 500 ETF? Any others - £0 fee with better Platform?
My experience with Trading212 support was not good. no one to phone , only email and no response for several days.
I like interactive investor for fixed-fee sipp. Might not suit everyone though.
I’m not sure what to do here. Thinking of moving to Trading 212 but I worry that other platforms may follow suit. I am invested in the FTSE Global All Cap, which is not available on any other platform. I guess I would have to sell my holdings in Vanguard. If I were to move, I would reinvest in VWRP using the proceeds from the sale. Bit of admin involved here and for what?
Depends how much you have invested
@@CaboloNero way below the £32k
Im in the exact same position mate, dont really know what to think tbh
@@RoryMcveigh-b6i personally if I had under £20k I’d move. Also depends how long it’s going to take you to reach £32k I guess.
@@mrjf5249 think I’m going to move to Trading 212. Selling the Vanguard fund and reinvesting it will put me over the £20k allowance so will have to transfer over officially
Not sure why they don’t extend the fee limit to 300k rather than 250k, this would surely be fairer.
Set up a Vanguard account for my wife recently. She's only invested £6k so far, so the fees have gone up from £9 per year, to £48
I had a S&S ISA with Vanguard... I got bored of the 0/rubbish app, constant website logouts, restrictive fund choice etc.
Transferred to Freetrade, invested in exactly the same vanguard funds, cost less in fees, nice app... not sure what Vanguard are doing lol
Moaning about restrictive funds and buying the same funds elsewhere 😅
@CaboloNero well as a baseline yeah, sinxe then ive found better ones from ishares etc. but what's ridiculous is freetrade offered vanguards accumulating world fund, that even vanguards own platform didn't!
does this affect IBKR broker if i buy VUSA?
Hi @Daniel-zr4pk no it only affects people in the UK who use the Vanguard platform and who have investments of £32,000 or less. Thanks, Ramin.
Just initiated a move for my small ISA
I’m sorry, but vanguard support is horrendous. Not even worth £4 a year. I will be transferring out right away. Thanks but no thanks.
Subscriber for a while. I need some advice please. With Vanguard and at the start of my investment journey. Currently less than 1500 in a SIPP and Stock and Shares ISA. I put into the FTSE Global All Cap Index Fund Accumulation and say I spend £1.40 on something I pump that 60p in there as well. I round up to the nearest pound and throw my lose change in. Which platform should I switch to now to allow me to do this and a lower fee? Thanks 🙏
So what do we do?
I just began the transfer if my SIPP out of Vanguard today. I hold about £2.5k in FTSE Global All Cap Accum, it just occured to me that if the transfer goes through in the next 3 weeks i might lose out on the accumulated dividends, does anyone know how this works please
I've just started putting into a Vanguard pension so this is going to affect me. Where else can I transfer my pension to that has lower fees?
Does Vanguard even have two-factor authentication yet?
SMS Code only. I want proper oauth implementation and support for authenticator app. HL is worse.
Terrible app also. Their US app is of course far superior, while the UK gets scraps for outlandish fees
Yep
What does "invested" mean? Holding cash in a Vanguard MMA? CD's Treasuries, the stock market?
Started my transfer from vanguard to iweb this afternoon.
Question is what to use for my new regular monthly investments?
T212?
T212 if you are happy with zero phone support.
@@chrise7058 and if you investments go missing on T212, say goodbye to them
Chat support has worked OK for me with T212.
£4 a month is way too high. Like an extra subscription cost. I think I will be moving as I only started in April this year and have a few grand only in there.
I’ve got all my pensions in vanguard tied to VHVG. I’m going to seriously consider invest engine, as why wouldn’t you?? Is there a down side?
Our new Gov raising NI is not talked about.
see ya vanguard!
Well that's a shame. I guess I'll be moving my money then
Sorry im confused when i read there email message yesterday. I have over 325k with a pension and a isa with vanguard. But i have a GIA with only 2k in. So are they going to start charging me £4 a month for my GIA or not because of the other accounts?
No it's cumulative across all your vanguard amounts. You'll still pay the 0.15% up to the max cap.
So much for lower fees, this is pure greed.
its called capitalism get over it 😛😛😛
I love your videos but I wish your mic was closer
What about junior isas? Will they be affected
No. From the FT: From January 31, the charges will apply to clients who self manage their stocks and shares Isa, general account or personal pensions.
Currently, clients pay 0.15 per cent on any balance, capped at £375 a year.
This will remain the same for clients with invested balances worth more than the £32,000 cut-off, and for Junior Isas.
The company also announced its managed Isa fee would go down from 0.30 per cent to 0.20 per cent.
Maybe they don’t really want the business. The money they make from the in built management fees on the ETF funds etc must be huge. There have hundreds of billions invested with them. The retail business is probably messy and resource intensive to manage. Lots of people on the phone asking silly questions etc. Maybe they’d rather leave that business for Trading 212 and others?
I guess the managed ISA hasn’t attracted enough money and why should they. Best to go with lifestrategy which do the same thing at lower cost. In my opinion, Vanguard are complicating things…. Against its own founding principles. I use ii for VG funds but I have to say VG much better interface, ii need to improve in this.
I wish the LifeStrategy funds would reduce or eliminate their UK overweight. I'd buy back in if they did.
So life strategy funds are not effected right? Sorry for daft question
@ it’s not a fund issue, it’s a minimum investment issue. If you hold under 32k in ANY vanguard fund on vanguard platform you will pay more. For example if you held 20k in a fund the platform fee was 0.15% of this, so 30 pound per year. Now they have set a minimum of 48 pound so you are 18 pound a year worse off. To be honest, there were cheaper platforms elsewhere before this kicked off. If you link vanguard , ok if you hold under 32 k , then it is more expensive now but is it really meaningful when you do the maths. At least the cap of 375 at top end is still present and that will be biggest thing for long term investors.
Everyone flapping….give it a couple of months, how do you know other platforms won’t do the same thing…it’s like buying a stock.
They can go take a long walk of a very short pier.
My balance will be moving from Vanguard to T212 ASAP.
Soon to realize that t212 does the same.
Good luck if you need support.
hissy fit LOL
@@KaranKukreja-g1d Then it will be going from T212 to InvestEngine :) haha
So Lifestrategy funds not effected right?
Why would that be? If you have less than £32k invested, the fee is increasing
Invested or balance? Which number will they use?
@@davejones6891 not sure what you mean. If the combined invested amount in all your accounts is below £32k you'll pay £4/m minimum
Ok...my invested amount is below 32k and with profits it is above 32k ...I only have 1 fund
..
@@davejones6891 so your investment is above £32k, therefore no change to the fees you pay
aren't they doing some sort of wind down of their broker business in the US too? i have this memory of them offloading customers to other brokers for some reason. they just want out i think. stick to what they do best.
Bots make comments unreadable
Does this include my daughters stock and share junior ISA ?
I am pretty sure it wont apply to Junior ISA (for now), u never know though 😅
They will settle for bigger investors, they must have done some analysis and reached this conclusion.
Sorry new to investing that be new fee on trading 212 vanguard s&P500 just to see if need to hold off on investing in that.
This won't affect the Vanguard ETFs like the S&P500 ETF you hold on Trading212. This fee is for Vanguard accounts on Vanguards own platform.
All those youtubers pushing Vanguard.......
Just wondering, why would you pay the fee out of cash instead of from the invested amount instead?
Given you’ll pay the fee pre tax it seems more beneficial to pay via the account instead of from a direct debit?
❤ in order to have more investment money in your tax-free wrapper. Every penny counts.
Assuming its a GIA - If you pay via the invested amount. My assumption is they sell your funds to cover the account fee.
Which makes capital gains possibly incurring and harder to be intentional with.
If an ISA or SIPP. We have allowances we can contribute to those longer-term tax free wrappers for a reason. One might prefer not to spend money inside of a tax-free wrapper... and let that continue to compound.... just using surplus cash in your pocket for fees to maximise growth in the tax-free wrapper
For SIPP, many people forget this. Meaningful money occasionally raised this.
@@17dragoncut understood the first one but a SIPP not so much, given your fee is pre tax realised gains why would pay that instead of doing it through selling the asset?
The difference could be 47% in tax/NI
Here is a gentle reminder for the video which was meant for making sense of money in India.
Hi @gauravsinghsays it will be released today 14th at 6pm GMT. Thanks Ramin
You can’t base what platform solely on fees. You shouldn’t say that is important. The sound footings and financial strength should be taken in to account. Strong IT security and secure holding of your assets etc, is just as important.
Something Vanguard do not do. Their MFA is SMS. Truly awful security.
@GaneshJU What financial strength? Compared to whom? The customers affected by this fee increase are all covered in full by the FSCS, which no amount of IT security (which they clearly aren't on top of anyway, as @zedman422 rightly points out) will improve upon.
Does it affect junior isas?
No
Well as Ramin keeps telling us service inflation is consistently high and sticky. Well FNZ don't work for free.😂
"switching is pretty easy" - hahaha
If you have an ISA and SIPP with vanguard (
£4 in total
No more Jack Bogle now Crookes running vanguard.
The new Vanguard CEO is from Blackrock, expect more fee rises soon