Tools, Glorious Tools! #10 (Part 2) - Shop Made Gear Cutters - The Cutter Forming Tools
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- A very special thank you to Patrons:
Sinking Valley Woodworks (www.sinkingvall...)
Glenn Trewitt
Mike Manfrin
Christopher Warnock
Guy Loughridge
Charles Frodsham & Co.
Peter John Richardson
Adam Slagle
Tim Bray
Dan Keen
Samuel Irons
Sean Kuyper
Matteo Neville
Daniel Cohen
Larry Pardi
Olof Haggren
Stassinopoulos Thomas
Florian Ragwitz
Andrew Smith
Bernd Fischer
Sam Towne
Jack Cause
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Andre van Soest
Matthew Middleton
Thomas Veilleux
Dave Seff
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L'Enfant Watch Company
C. A. Patrick Voigt
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Bogdan Dan
Steven R. Crider
Gary Levario
Pete Askew
Jeff Armstrong
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Robert Petz
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Kaedenn
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Peter
Grant Michener
Jonathan Teegarden
Steve Hossner
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RobinP556
------------- Video Notes: --------------
File Downloads (Be sure to COPY/PASTE the links):
Cutter Sharpening Tool Metric: www.clicksprin...
Cutter Sharpening Tool Inch: www.clicksprin...
Clickspring Universal Gear Calculator: www.clicksprin...
Cutter Forming Tools Metric: www.clicksprin...
Cutter Forming Tools Inch: www.clicksprin...
Cutter Blank Metric: www.clicksprin...
Cutter Blank Inch: www.clicksprin...
Some top resources on Gear Theory:
John Stevenson's Blog Post - metalwebnews.co...
WO Davis - “Gears For Small Mechanisms”: amzn.to/2Yj2Ben
JM Wild - "Wheel & Pinion Cutting in Horology": amzn.to/2HI6ca9
"Gears and Gear Cutting", Ivan Law: amzn.to/2FKmaUI
Tony's gear videos:
• Gears! - But Were Afra...
• 15T-M2 Let This Be A L...
Stefan on the subject of sharpening, and a discussion on profile error: • Toolgrinding: Resharpe...
Mr Pete's Gear Videos:
• SHOP TIPS #192 Intro. ...
• SHOP TIPS #199 Making ...
• SHOP TIPS #200 Making ...
• SHOP TIPS #197 Gear Cu...
• SHOP TIPS #194 Cutting...
• SHOP TIPS #193 Cutting...
Andy Pugh's Gear hobbing video's:
• Hobbing (Gear cutting)...
• A New Gear for an Old ...
"The Watchmakers' Lathe " Ward Goodrich - amzn.to/2Wijchr
Hugh Sparks - www.csparks.co...
"The Clock & Watch Makers Guide to Gear Making" Porter - amzn.to/2xuFP7I
Online Gear Generator: geargenerator....
Alan Pinkus’s Gear Generator - www.micro-machi...
Matthias Wandels gear generator: woodgears.ca/g...
(Amazon Affiliate links)
Cameras:
Panasonic GH5 - amzn.to/2rEzhh2
Panasonic X920 - amzn.to/2wzxxdT
Books:
"Wheel & Pinion Cutting in Horology": amzn.to/2HI6ca9
"Solidworks 2013 Bible": amzn.to/2FObS1D
WO Davis - “Gears For Small Mechanisms”: amzn.to/2Yj2Ben
"Workshop practice Series": amzn.to/2WgeGh0
Tools & Shop Products:
Optivisor Headband Magnifier: amzn.to/2HFg1FU
Norton 1-by-2-by-8-Inch Fine/Coarse India Combination Oilstone, Red: amzn.to/2tTEPb0
Hegner Scroll Saw: amzn.to/2IhteVW
Digital Caliper 6 inch/150 mm Electronic Vernier Calipers: amzn.to/2EArNRU
Generic Dial Indicator 0.001": amzn.to/2FOFTyF
Interapid Dial Test Indicator: amzn.to/2FPInwH
Saint Gobain (Norton) - 4 Arkansas Stones + case: amzn.to/2HCOAMX
Dormer A190202 Jobber Drill Set, 1.0 mm - 6.0 mm x 0.1 mm Size: amzn.to/2DR5fdb
Dormer A190203 Jobber Drill Set, 6.0 mm - 10.0 mm x 0.1 mm Size: amzn.to/2ITfeTa
YG1 NC Spotting Drill 8% Cobalt HSS 1/8 to 1/2" 120 Degree 5 Pc Set CNC Machine: amzn.to/2G7ylv6
Hegner Scroll Saw: amzn.to/2IhteVW
Blazer GB2001 Self-Igniting Butane Micro-Torch: amzn.to/3f5Gzlh
Magnetic Base Adjustable Metal Test Indicator Holder Digital Level 14" - Tool Stand: amzn.to/2PkyoTV
Anytime Tools Angle Block Set 1°, 2°, 3°, 4°, 5°, 10°, 15°, 20°, 25°, 30° Precision +/- 20 Seconds, Machinist Tool, 10 Piece Set: amzn.to/2QFqM2Y
Consumables:
Super Pike Saw Blades Size 3/0 pkg of 144: amzn.to/2uI0QdT
Blue Matador Abrasive Paper: amzn.to/2IAFiBT
Bergeon Professional Cleaning Rodico: amzn.to/2NwcM6y
Question! What are the drawbacks, if any, of adding a mark or notch, however minor, to the shafts of the button cutters for more accurate and repeatable alignment, especially for the sharpening? Or as another commenter asked filing a spot flat where the grub screw would be expected to reach?
None whatsoever; use markings as personally desired - Cheers :)
I was thinking the same thing! Really incredible design, this is the only real improvement I could think of... But...
You can actually keep the set screw loose and gently press the buttons against a flat surface, where they will index to exactly the right position. Then you tighten the set screws to lock that orientation. It would be a lot more precise than trying to match up any sort of marking. Probably more precise than flats too.
Given that the buttons are loctited into the holder, I'm not sure you'd ever be resharpening them in the jig.
I agree .. Having a flat on the side with grub screw means it will be easy to take out and resharpen and also to put the button cutters into another holder for different pitch cutting .. if extra buttons have not been made
I have to thank you and other YT creators for sharing your wealth of information. Because of you all, I made my first clock mechanism in my workshop. It still needs a bit of tuning but works as I was hoping for. Thanks again for sharing!
Hard to imaging life without YT.Thank you.
@@angelramos-2005 I can remember life before YT. I got a lot more coding done.
Chris: "I made a thing to make a thing to make a thing to make a thing" too good!
Absolutely loved the integrated sine bar for setting the button cutter rake angle, brilliant feature.
have been working metal for 40 yrs ... the first 3 mins of this vid went woosh over my head! (chuckle) never too old to learn! i know involute etc ..but the math is nuts!
You could actually file a small flatspot onto the shaft of the button inserts. That way the grub screw wont deform the shaft and also it would set the rotation pretty close to what it originally way when you want to sharpen them.
And set alignment
When the 15 degree rake angle is milled in from the top (as at 6:54), it would be very easy to mill a flat at the small (unused end) as the next operation. That would involve no further setup and it would provide a means of orienting the buttons in the cutter. If you used a square that had equal width limbs you could both assure that the buttons were 90 degrees to each other and 45 degrees from center.
I was thinking similarly you could score a line on the bottom of the tall side of the button to make the angle more visible
I like the tools series. Thank you for putting this together mate.
Just when you think you have seen it all. Chris comes out with another video. Very nice.
A tool to make a tool to make a tool! I have no need to make gears, and I still watch!
I want a set of those button cutters to use as cufflinks.
Some times i can not decide what i like best. The idea, planning, then the setup. Or the making of the gadget and its intended use. Or the camera work, capturing its entirety. One is as intricate as the next.
tool and cutter grinder here, as always your dedication and attention to detail amazes me. Keep doing the good work of making this sort of operation as approachable as possible, with enough time and planning, you really can do anything.
Thanks to Chris, I now believe my dream of building a model engineering machine shop in my 20’ shipping container is possible.
If you milled a couple flats on the low sides, you could use them to quickly line up the cutters for sharpening.
Wow, such precision and detail. Thank you
Building tools for building more tools!
Tools to make tools to make tools to make tools to make a part to make a tool
… to make gears!
You could file or scratch an alignment mark onto the cylindrical edge of the button cutters before cutting the 15deg angle on them, so that you can repeatably line them up in future.
or mill a small flat on the sides of the cutters so the grub screws will automatically align the cutters when tight
Did you hear Adam Savage just got himself a mini lathe and plans on doing some watch repair and other projects?
I look forward to him using some of your techniques as he does you as an inspiration along with Marshall at Wristwatch Revival😊
Sir, you are awesome.
If you put a flat on the stem of the cutters prior to cutting them, you can get them to orient themselves for you.
Amazing.
Can i make a suggestion? Why not mill a flat on the button cutter shank for indexing? A small flat that the grub screw can seat into ensuring accurate alignment.
Fascinating.
Chris always with the perfect work !
Love this. Wanting to make gears soon and all these tools that i need to make will make life easier.
Thank you for sharing it all. Its assisted in my thoughts.
Would putting some flats on the back (thin side) of your buttons not assist in getting the 15 degrees in the right place for sharpening and also for installing on the button carrier with a square to get the high (thick side) as the point of contact?
Cant wait for the next and keep up the work
Thanks and regards,
Paul
Love a multi step process. Great machining!
Just one word comes to me : wahooo !
I see click I spring
Great, thanks for sharing
Brilliant
gorgous finish
Hey Chris, @10:04 I wonder if you could use a piece of glass, sort of like microscope slides (maybe a bit more tough), to press gently against both buttons allowing them rotate to face the same plane, until seen aligned correctly.
One must be careful not to break the glass though.
Fascinating build and idea! Awesome video! :)
I just watched a man use a tool he had made ... to make tools ... to make a tool.
And enjoyed every second.
Great to have you watching mate :)
That is the best sort of project as every hobby workshop owner will attest to.
Another fantastic video.. thank you for sharing your knowledge
When cutting the angle on the buttons woulda been a good time to cut an index line on them and some on the block
Consistently good videos time after time. I just wish I had the patience and ability to turn out products like these.
You could have put a grove in the shaft of the button cutters for easy alignment
Or cross drilled them and used a pin to align them.
Just an idea! But to adjust the two cutters to the same gapped height for sharpening, could you use something like a spark plug gapper "coin"?
Mmmm, shiny...😁 I notice that when sharpening the button cutters great attention is paid to the circular 'end face' but that the outer side of the button is left largely untouched from the lathe.
I've done a bit of metalwork and old-school machining, but my experience lies mainly with woodworking tools (chisels, planes, saws, routers), and in those cases it's impossible to get a truly smooth, sharp cutting edge unless the meeting faces are finished to an equal degree.
The back side of a plane iron, for instance, needs to be kept mirror-bright so that when the cutting edge is sharpened - ground, honed and stropped - no nicks or scratches are revealed each time the back of the blade is exposed. If the front is perfectly flat and polished, but the back is as rough as a ploughed field, the cutting edge will always be wavy and can never be finer than those exposed corrugations.
So... would the outer edge of a button cutter benefit from being as finely polished as its end face, or doesn't it matter in this particular application? I appreciate that there's a big difference between making a tool to create a finished component, and making a tool to make a tool to make another tool to make a finished component. Just curious... 🙂
Yes, quite correct Eli, removal of any turning marks is essential for the best possible finish. It kinda zips by but you'll see I take the perimeter to a bright polished finish as a last step of the cutter OD formation before formation of the cutting surfaces (4:30) The goal being no residual turning marks to corrupt the cutting edge, more-so than a polish, but the idea is the same as you describe - Cheers :)
i worry about the precision of aligning the rotation of the buttons. do they make octagonal broaches?
Can you post up the necessary information for figuring out the cycloidal button gear tooth cutter tooling or is the information available somewhere else?,thanks.
Would it be worth adding something to easily index the button cutters?
LOL - Autocaptioning strikes again "kataraba" is most likely "cutter arbor"
With all those different angles, it seems unlikely that the gear tooth profile actually ends up circular - elliptical maybe ?
Ok they made a big Hollywood movie about the Antikythera machine. Do a movie review with This old Tony but form your own perspective.
👍
Knowing how meticulous Chris is, gave me goosebumps to see how sloppy he was making the alignment here: 9:45 and here: 17:05! :P
The rake and clearance angles mean that the cutting edge is slightly elliptical, and as it's not in line with the centre line of the lathe, its effective shape is a curve I don't know the name of.
I wonder if anyone has calculated what subtle effect this has on the involute approximation. The angles could potentially be tuned, but only to a specified cutter radius. I'd rather build a CNC grinder with my teeth than figure that one out.
Why did you not index the tool with a keyway? The measurements are to the thousands, but how do you make sure the tool is oriented to the thousands?
Its quite easy to align to required precision by eye, and much like the many other compromises inherent in gear cutter design (both commercial and home shop) small profile error tends not to matter - Cheers :)
Chris, thanks again for this. I have a quick question. I'm still figuring out best practices for some of these operations and it seems to me that the locating boss would have been a perfect candidate for using a thermal interference fit. I know that the Loctite will work, but the shrink fit seems so much more elegant. Or am I just adding an unneeded complication to the job?
Loctite is reversible, easier, faster, and iirc stronger than an interference fit, and also doesn't introduce any stresses into the part. It's also visually indistinguishable from an interference fit, so there really doesn't seem to be a reason not to use loctite. Don't get me wrong, I find interference fits very cool and would probably still do it just because I'm a big dag, but the Loctite really does seem superior by any objective measure.
That being said I'm a former designer, not a machinist, so Chris may have a very different insight into this than me!
I don't understand how you find the correct position for the buttons on the shank @17:00
You have previously polished out tooling marks, so how do you set both buttons in identical "orientation"
Sorry if this is an obvious thing, but to my interested-in-engineering-but not-an-engineer mind, I'm missing something
Very cool effects; just wondering:
Do you enjoy doing that type of animation/compositing stuff as much as you enjoy machining?
Какой рукастый мужик. Иногда выглядит так, как будто из экрана монитора детали достал.
That vacuum force mentioned at 13:10 looks kinda like wringing gauge blocks
could you give the excel to calculet the gear cutter and the buttons?
Links in the description below video - Cheers :)
When is your car restoration video? Or maybe a model car given the scales you work at.
Wrong channel I guess... there's the swiss guy doing that
antikythera?
Really Chris?? Grub screw?? From you?? Aaarrrggghhhhh it’s a set screw, please. A grub screw is something completely different. They are just screws or set screws or a socket head set screw. I love you, I really do,swear to God. Please not a grub screw…….
LOL
In fact I can't even find a different definition than the one Chris is using!
While I do see the added value in getting some exercise and experience building this, I don't see the practical value. My POV: for personal time I charge a "virtual" €100 per hour. So if I spend 10 hours making one cutter, I'm in €1000, excluding materials, tools, cleanup, machine maintenance, etc.. you can buy a whole cutter set for that price. Or have somebody make the gear you eventually want for you.
So I'd probably do this once for the fun, but it'll end up in some cupboard. And use the CNC for any production work.
I do like watching other people do the manual work.
except when you consider that personal time as hobby and in addition to the resulting tool you get more satisfaction/fun out of it than buying the tool directly. I personnally read and watch videos for my own fun. And nowhere do I try and justify "spending" the time on it in any economical way. It's a hobby.
@jhbonarius take some time to watch Clickspring’s 24 part clock series. After you’ve finished, think about whether you would feel the same about the clock if Chris had simply posted a 2 minute video saying “check out this clock that I bought pre-assembled from China!” Would it have that same “wow” factor?
Sometimes the value of a thing lies in the enjoyment one receives in the act of making that thing oneself, in exercising one’s skills, knowledge, and abilities to create something from nothing, rather than to just consume someone else’s efforts.
@@mrimmortal1579 i have and I enjoyed watching it. I also enjoy watching this. However here he's kind of settling it if this would be a practical solution for the purpose. Well, maybe at one time it was, but with current technology this is not very efficient.
It's also worth considering that whatever price tag I may put on my time, I have ten hours but I don't have a thousand euro!
@@jhbonarius maybe so, but efficiency is not at all the point of any of what Chris is doing. If his channel was about
“Here’s how you use the latest technology to set things up to mass produce >Product X< and make a viable profitable business selling >Product X
The building blocks, thanks for the look see.
I see clixkspring I click
But do you spring?
@@Noodle_Druidright into action, clicking like on clickspring.
@@Noodle_Druidevery time he clicks, something springs back!
I see qlliikspprryyng and i click too 😉
I swing to click
I shouldn't be surprised that the bloke who makes far and away the best videos on TH-cam also makes the best machine shop tools I've ever seen...
My only regret is that I have but one like to give to each of Chris's videos. Beautiful work expertly executed, as always.
If you were to mill a flat on outer edge on the lower side of the buttons alignment in the sharpening tool and the button holder would be a lot easier.
I thought the same, even a small mark on the outer face at the high point would make alignment easier
@@fittogan A flat would let you use a parallel to align on the sharpening jig and a 90° angle to align on the cutter. It would be pretty trivial to mill in the jig before you mill the angled surfaces.
Gday Chris, that for taking the time to explain this in a way I can understand and that’s not an easy feat 😂, looking for to the next instalment, cheers
Hey Chris, you just saved the world, as I was about to go make a very large bomb, but your video distracted me.
Hi Chris. Well one the best video's I have seen on preparing cutter blanks. Your detail to making the tools are one of the best.
Do you think flats on the shaft of the buttons would be helpful with alignment and avoid marring of the shaft.
Комментарий в поддержку канала и ролика, а также труда мастера...
Dear Sir, today I watched a video by Sabine Hossenfelder. It featured a quantum computer. I remarked how beautiful they were. And as a lark, I advertised quantum chandeliers for sale, starting at $50,000, with two yeas delivery. I have not the tools or experience to make this a reality. But she did respond. To a different comment. I think there would be a market. I immediately thought of you.
Could you mill a flat at the lower edge of the buttons without impacting performance. That could help with squaring the buttons to the right orientation.
Holy chit, Chris, for once I may have an idea for you. When you are forming the original 15 degree slope on the button cutters, once you are finished milling the shape, what if you made a flat on the low side of the cutter buttons. This would allow you a flat surface to index and measure to when setting the buttons for the remainder of the set ups for sharpening on the stones and setting them in the tool holder. Just and idea here, might work.
The button cutter carrier: a tool to help you make tools to help you make tools to help you make gears to help you make clocks
If you leave the side screw loose during sharpening, won't it find the natural flat? These are low pressure operations..
Love this mate, thanks!
There are a few points in the video where the machine sounds almost drown out your voice.
It seems like a small flat on the back of the buttons would greatly help align their slope parallel to the stone...
That's the basic idea... as brain explodes.
Would you be interested to create web calculator for those teeth? Can do it for free.
Making the tool that makes the tool that makes the tool to make the part. Phenomenal as always!
Wow that self jigging feature for the cutter rake is really clever!
Hey Chris, great video again! Deviating from a profile with conjugate action (ie involute mated with involute) should result in the formation of transmission errors in the meshing cycle (these errors being deviations from the ideal transmission ratio). You're certainly right that the approximation is pretty good though. Out of curiosity, have you ever noticed little jerking motions or accelerations while two gears mesh together?
It's very possible that either the gear was mounted off center or the shaft is bent either would lead to intermittent binding then being too loose.
A cutter-cutter... well obviously! :P
..as well as the tools to make and sharpen the cutter cutter.
Thank you very much
Cool video
You make it look easy!
Awesome work , thank you for sharing your knowledge.
awesome video as always
I could watch your videos all day.
i'll be making one soon. thank you sir!
That little block of aluminium thingy is such a superb multi-purpose tool.
Your work and attention to detail is simply stunning - thank you so much for sharing this with us! One more question: You ground and polished the top of the cutter - doesn't the side surface also play an important role? I mean, if there are scratches there, then they may also be found on the cutting edge - and thus ultimately on the teeth of the gear, which are milled with it?
It is the edge that matters. Because of the 5 degree tilt for clearance /relief after the buttons are mounted in the tool, the sides should not rub against the work piece.
Great illustration of using the disk cutters and how to make them... I had read extensively about this over 20 years ago, but only now understand everything...
Hi Chris, your work and videos are totally amazing and inspiring. You refer to the "calculator" many times for making the clock wheel and pinion cutters. Where can I obtain the "calculator" or data please?
Absolutely genius
Sometimes the beauty of a tool is enough to justify its creation, as in the case here. That sharpening jig is wonderful
Ну ты мастер!) Молодец!) Ждём новое видио!)
Awe! Thank you for posting!
What happened to the other series about the calender?
Just love to watch glorious tool making :D