Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh, This is so amazing. I ask Allah to grant you all success. Maybe it's not useful as feedback, but I wanted to mention the expanded translation of الرحمن kind of feels abstract; "in His own right" if I wanted to understand this phrase, I might need to look it up or someone might give up without anything being "uncovered" (to them) by this phrase, meaning-wise. Haha, as a translation user, I always look to see how a translation treats الرحمن الرحيم; I mean, I've read of the opinions and know I can look up what's been said (on how they are different), but it's nice to experience the shade of distinction that the translator selected in that moment. Jazakumullahu khayran, ya sidi
Wa ‘alaykum assalam wa rahmatullah wa barakaatuh, Thank you, we definitely appreciate all reader feedback which helps us fix or improve anything that needs it. In this case, the phrase “in His own right” only becomes clear when you go on to see the contrast with “to the creation” - and you must be familiar with this approach to the two names الرحمن الرحيم since you’ve read around. What would you suggest as an alternative to “in His own right”? I don’t think it’s an obscure English expression, but also there’s no harm in people looking things up when they need to.
Alhamdulillah this is such a valuable project and I am blessed to have the means to support it as a patron. Even this brief explanation raises so many questions in my unqualified head (what is a "level route" in ayah 5, why "anger" not "wrath", why "or" not "and" in ayah 7), so I can only imagine the effort that must be going into it. The criticality of being qualified to undertake a translation is rightly emphasised - not only with respect to bilingual skills but also with respect to being qualified to read tafsir as a source of translation. The bilingual issue is mentioned briefly at 2:58 but doesn't that also mean that translators into English must have some minimum level of English language literacy beyond it being their native tongue? Wouldn't this be necessary in order to determine the most accurate/appropriate word usage and sentence structure? What would such a minimum level be defined as, or maybe it's enough to have someone on the team who's sufficiently qualified (a lexicographer perhaps)? Like I said, so many questions...
Thank you for your kind patronage, may Allah make it heavy in your scale of good deeds! Let me shed some light on the questions you've raised. 1. The words "the direct, level route to Your pleasure" were given as clarification for "the Straight Path", to highlight a few things which are intended by the term الصراط المستقيم : where this Path (a metaphorical description) is leading, and that "straight" implies both that it's the shortest route to the destination, and that there are no bumps in the road. These are points highlighted by Ibn 'Ashur himself. 2. The choice between "anger" and "wrath" is a stylistic one; while the latter may have a stronger sense, it is less readily understood nowadays. 3. The direct translation of و is "and", but in a negated list like this, it can also be conveyed as "or", which I have taken to be more natural. It also helps make clear that we are asking not to be like either one of those groups, rather than only avoiding the combination of their traits. 4. I was actually quite reserved in my comments here, and someone remarked to me that I didn't point out that there is no such thing as a native speaker of Quranic Arabic! To what extent does growing up speaking these various modern dialects serve as an advantage in understanding the Quran, let alone translating it? Another thing I could have underlined is the value of having native fluency in the target language, in this case English. I would argue this is more important, or at least should be properly factored into any translation project (e.g. to have critical readers who are natives in the target language). I have seen some projects which were supposed to have this factored in, yet some of the word choices make it hard to believe that natives signed off on it!
Salam aleikoem Ustadh, im looking forward to the coming projects especially The Qira’aat as I am a student of Qira’aat. May Allah swt enable you and the team to continue. Salaam from Breda, The Netherlands
Wa alaykum assalam! Thank you for your kind du’as. We have a couple of videos up about the qira’at and translation, and will probably do another soon to showcase the Qira’at Fact Files إن شاء الله
Very nice and thoughtful, Allah give u more success in this endeavor. Perhaps it's my opinion but in English isn't the word "show" a bit weak if we're trying to convey show and remain on the path, it seems even weaker than a literal 'guide'. Also "received anger" although literally pretty simple does seem kinda awkward/unused in English, a cursory search of the phrase on Google books doesn't return much (except a reference to the Fatiha itself funnily enough).
We aren't using the word "show us" to carry both those meanings, which is why "and keep us on" is added in the second layer. Yes it is somewhat implied, but you will find the mufassirun saying the same thing about Arabic "ihdina" that it only literally implies being led to the path, but then we ought contextually to understand that as being guided day after day. The same can be said of "show", and I don't see it as any weaker than "guide" in that respect. It's also not the case that "guide" is more literal. Indeed, "received anger" is quite particular to this surah, but I'm not sure that's such a problem. Another project which prioritises familiar expressions in English could choose another way of wording this, but even that project may encounter some insurmountable challenges elsewhere.
Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,
This is so amazing. I ask Allah to grant you all success.
Maybe it's not useful as feedback, but I wanted to mention the expanded translation of الرحمن kind of feels abstract; "in His own right" if I wanted to understand this phrase, I might need to look it up or someone might give up without anything being "uncovered" (to them) by this phrase, meaning-wise.
Haha, as a translation user, I always look to see how a translation treats الرحمن الرحيم; I mean, I've read of the opinions and know I can look up what's been said (on how they are different), but it's nice to experience the shade of distinction that the translator selected in that moment.
Jazakumullahu khayran, ya sidi
Wa ‘alaykum assalam wa rahmatullah wa barakaatuh,
Thank you, we definitely appreciate all reader feedback which helps us fix or improve anything that needs it.
In this case, the phrase “in His own right” only becomes clear when you go on to see the contrast with “to the creation” - and you must be familiar with this approach to the two names الرحمن الرحيم since you’ve read around.
What would you suggest as an alternative to “in His own right”? I don’t think it’s an obscure English expression, but also there’s no harm in people looking things up when they need to.
Allah give u more success in this endeavor.
Such an interesting project! May Allāh ﷻ make it a reality.
Alhamdulillah this is such a valuable project and I am blessed to have the means to support it as a patron. Even this brief explanation raises so many questions in my unqualified head (what is a "level route" in ayah 5, why "anger" not "wrath", why "or" not "and" in ayah 7), so I can only imagine the effort that must be going into it.
The criticality of being qualified to undertake a translation is rightly emphasised - not only with respect to bilingual skills but also with respect to being qualified to read tafsir as a source of translation. The bilingual issue is mentioned briefly at 2:58 but doesn't that also mean that translators into English must have some minimum level of English language literacy beyond it being their native tongue? Wouldn't this be necessary in order to determine the most accurate/appropriate word usage and sentence structure? What would such a minimum level be defined as, or maybe it's enough to have someone on the team who's sufficiently qualified (a lexicographer perhaps)?
Like I said, so many questions...
Thank you for your kind patronage, may Allah make it heavy in your scale of good deeds! Let me shed some light on the questions you've raised.
1. The words "the direct, level route to Your pleasure" were given as clarification for "the Straight Path", to highlight a few things which are intended by the term الصراط المستقيم : where this Path (a metaphorical description) is leading, and that "straight" implies both that it's the shortest route to the destination, and that there are no bumps in the road. These are points highlighted by Ibn 'Ashur himself.
2. The choice between "anger" and "wrath" is a stylistic one; while the latter may have a stronger sense, it is less readily understood nowadays.
3. The direct translation of و is "and", but in a negated list like this, it can also be conveyed as "or", which I have taken to be more natural. It also helps make clear that we are asking not to be like either one of those groups, rather than only avoiding the combination of their traits.
4. I was actually quite reserved in my comments here, and someone remarked to me that I didn't point out that there is no such thing as a native speaker of Quranic Arabic! To what extent does growing up speaking these various modern dialects serve as an advantage in understanding the Quran, let alone translating it? Another thing I could have underlined is the value of having native fluency in the target language, in this case English. I would argue this is more important, or at least should be properly factored into any translation project (e.g. to have critical readers who are natives in the target language). I have seen some projects which were supposed to have this factored in, yet some of the word choices make it hard to believe that natives signed off on it!
@@IbnAshur Really appreciate you taking the time to reply جزاك اللهُ خيراً
Salam aleikoem Ustadh, im looking forward to the coming projects especially The Qira’aat as I am a student of Qira’aat. May Allah swt enable you and the team to continue. Salaam from Breda, The Netherlands
Wa alaykum assalam! Thank you for your kind du’as. We have a couple of videos up about the qira’at and translation, and will probably do another soon to showcase the Qira’at Fact Files إن شاء الله
Very nice and thoughtful, Allah give u more success in this endeavor.
Perhaps it's my opinion but in English isn't the word "show" a bit weak if we're trying to convey show and remain on the path, it seems even weaker than a literal 'guide'. Also "received anger" although literally pretty simple does seem kinda awkward/unused in English, a cursory search of the phrase on Google books doesn't return much (except a reference to the Fatiha itself funnily enough).
We aren't using the word "show us" to carry both those meanings, which is why "and keep us on" is added in the second layer. Yes it is somewhat implied, but you will find the mufassirun saying the same thing about Arabic "ihdina" that it only literally implies being led to the path, but then we ought contextually to understand that as being guided day after day. The same can be said of "show", and I don't see it as any weaker than "guide" in that respect. It's also not the case that "guide" is more literal.
Indeed, "received anger" is quite particular to this surah, but I'm not sure that's such a problem. Another project which prioritises familiar expressions in English could choose another way of wording this, but even that project may encounter some insurmountable challenges elsewhere.
Assalamou aleykoum wa rahmatoulah wa, Cheikh please activate the english or and french substitles
Wa alaykum assalam, that’s now available - it takes a few hours to process.
Dr. , What's your thoughts on sam garrens translation of the Qur'an , Allah bless you❤
I haven't given it much attention. It is perhaps better than other offerings by the 'Quranist' camp in English.