The reason it wash mushing along with full back elevator, is that as overall AOA increased, the front aerofoils will lose lift, while the rear aerofoils keep generating lift, moving the Center of Lift aft, making the aircraft feel more nose heavy. This effectively drops the nose after a certain point, preventing a full stall unless you work really hard at it. This is how slats and slots are designed to work. Fun project! Cool video :)
19 likes, your logic is reversed though! the rear stalls first. The drop in lift results in *sink* and the horizontal stabiliser *then* raises the tail and re-establishes wing flow.
@@NikosWings No the (lower attitude) Horizontal stab' is flying and generates tail up/nose down lift. Look up aeroplane stability on line. Canards stall the (higher attitude) foreplanes first lowering the nose. This enhances their basic safety.
I heard there's a practical application of this concept, the Antonov AN-2 (wiki: "The An-2 has no stall speed, a fact which is quoted in the operating handbook. A note from the pilot's handbook reads: "If the engine quits in instrument conditions or at night, the pilot should pull the control column full aft and keep the wings level. The leading-edge slats will snap out at about 64 km/h (40 mph) and when the airplane slows to a forward speed of about 40 km/h (25 mph), the airplane will sink at about a parachute descent rate until the aircraft hits the ground."[4] As such, pilots of the An-2 have stated that they are capable of flying the aircraft in full control at 48 km/h (30 mph) (as a contrast, a Cessna four-seater light aircraft has a stall speed of around 80 km/h (50 mph)).[citation needed] This slow stall speed makes it possible for the aircraft to fly backwards relative to the ground: if the aircraft is pointed into a headwind of roughly 56 km/h (35 mph), it will travel backwards at 8 km/h (5 mph) whilst under full control.")
Some good research there. We studied a similar concept in college tested by NASA in the 70’s. I wasn’t in college in the 70’s that’s when the concept first appeared. Be careful, what happened when you bumped the throttle with the model in hand happened to me but I bumped it to full throttle and arm was far enough from it that just a half an inch of APC prop dug into my arm, cut through major tendons and partially lost function in my hand. Throttle cut mate - trust me!
Damn sorry to hear about your accident l've broken fingers in props (glow engine and full scale aircraft) before.Sucks but never lost any use of anything such as you but I guess that's the price we pay for the game we play.As for that wing l'm going to look into that . Great experiment! Keep your airspeed up and fly safe.
Wow. I never thought throttle cut could save such a deep cut! Thank you for reminding us of the risks that we all seem to ignore. Were you ever able to recover?
I accidentally reversed the throttle axis in a model I was setting up for a flight (12 inch carbon prop) & it sent me straight to the ER. Basically, as soon as I calibrated the throttle it was at 100% instead of 0, the plane jumped up at me, cutting both of my legs and one hand, actually going all the way though the fingernail (carbon is sharp lol). It really sucked, but luckily no lasting damage. It could’ve been a lot worse.
Your cat looks even more strange than your wing. Jokes aside, I swear I was thinking about doing the same thing. Thinking of the function of flaps and slats, I said to myself "why not making a wing all made of slats/flaps?" And here comes your video! By the way I agree it seems that no stall occurred in the crash. Rather a lack of control at very low speed due to torque from the prop and not enough airstream on the rudder.
Right on. Like window blinds. The sections should be able to move then lock into place like luvers and form one wing. Then be able to open at slower speeds.
@@ryushev2000 My point was that every time humanity makes a grand claim of that sort, like launching a ship that is hailed as "unsinkable," it seems that all of Nature and Nature's God set out to prove its designers wrong and tragedy follows. No shooting required.
Well no - we have actually unsinkable ships, but for a wing "unstallable" is nearly impossible. Stall just means that after a certain angle of attack the lift is no longer increasing but decreasing. A wing that can be said to be unstallable would already start with so much lower lift that it is not viable for basically anything. This wing here is very good already to the point that it is really hard to stall it, but it is just not viable. For Ships unsinkable designs are mostly only used for 2 applications: rescue boats and small commercial boats ( in the US basically all small boats are required to be unsinkable - you can cut them in half and submerge them and they MUST still stay afloat).
@@ABaumstumpf You will have to inform the marine industry of your “truth,” then, since we regularly send bulk carriers, especially, to the bottom. If the industry thought those huge losses were avoidable with a design change to something unsinkable, they would avoid them. (Just filling a hull space with foam so it hangs upside down in the water until it smashes into rocks somewhere doesn’t count-it has to be _functionally_ unsinkable such that lives and cargo are not lost.)
Bailey that is a really great experiment. The angle of attack on your multi element airfoil is so close to the angle of attack on the slotted wingtips of soaring birds and this is the first time that I have ever seen anyone replicate it. all experiments of slotted wingtips completely miss this fact. Bravo keep up the good work.
Put and RPM meeter on the motor or a speed laser pointing at the propeller while flying and during stall test, see how much more does the motor and propeller has to work to keep the airplane up with the improved wing and a regular wing, this will let you know if the improved with is worth it and compered to a regular one.
The first unsalable aircraft was the Waterman Aerobile from 1935. There is a flight simulator module for FSX10 to explore it with. You need to sweep the wings back to solve the low speed stability problem, and I think reduce the wing tip lift a little. These will give the plane a nose up attitude as the air flow diminishes and the assembly should just mush down as the Aerobile did, I expect.
Build a Klein-Fogelman plane. It's sort of a constant-speed airfoil and it doesn't matter if the discontinuity of the skin is in the top or bottom last third of the wing chord. The wing root(s) apply quite a torque to the fuselage when the wing flies. It's awesome.
probably automatic leading edge slats would be easier and just as effective with the advantage of normal wing structure for fuel etc. the advantage of this multiple wing is higher wing loading per individual wing which will be smoother in turbulence
Those little yarn pieces are called tell tails in the sailing racing world. Most serious racers have them for trimming the sails better. I am really impressed with your experiment here. Excellent job. I stumbled on to this video but almost passed it by. And then said, wait a minute, I've gotta check this out. I'm a 64 year old surfboard and boat designer. And my dad and I made many balsa gliders back in the early '60's, experimenting with all kinds of designs. Your experiment was extremely well done and accurate on each wing foil, angles, and construction method. Nice dry humor to the video also. I didn't think this design would make that much difference, but I was amazed at how efficient it is. That's crazy how good it works. Nice work...
That's my idea from over 40 years ago. I drew it but never built it. Mine was to have each slat be movable so it could close up or open when needed and be able to move independently on each slat to be able to experiment with air flow variations The big problem was l would have had to use solid balsa or a rib and spar construction for each slat. Back then we didn't have any foam or balsa substitute for large sized experiments like yours Good luck and l am glad your work seems a success
The first fix would be to add about double the vertical tail surface...and even consider adding more horizontal as well. simple cuz those surfaces are the ones now stalling causing the wag and lack of control. To do that you would need to use a lot of open surfaces covered by film to keep it light so it doesn't throw out the balance.Ay those low speeds , ailerons have little use but a huge fiin will hold it right on track.
I would say it did stall. Just at a different time. As it pitched up relative to the forward momentum, it was able to maintain lift as long as it had inertia. But with the high angle of attack, drag slowed it to the stall speed. The propeller is at the wrong angle to maintain that attitude of flight. Increasing thrust recovers the aircraft, but with an abrupt change in direction. Fortunately the plane had enough power and thrust to pull this off. It saved the experiment. This is definitely an interesting concept that deserves exploration. I’m just not sure what next move might be. Great video 👍😁
Well, that’s a zero flow over the airfoil scenario.. which means it’s impossible to produce lift, and of course because of that there is no such thing as an un-stallable airfoil.
Bird wing feathers are similar. They are separate but close together components of the wing, excepting run in a parralel direction to the bird's body, where your wing components run perpendicular.
Did a report in college on multi airfoil wings, granted in more of an automotive application, but It's very cool to see another practical application like this
Back in the 60's NASA played around with this design but found it too hard to maintain. They used even thinner gaps which then lead down the path of porous wings. Very cool you built this!
What's going on is the gaps between all of the airfoils creates a circulation effect that causes the flow of the air over the surface to behave in such a way that it increase the overall lift of the entire structure. As you explained, since the angle of incidence each wing in the overall structure is different, and they stall at different times. The leading wing may be stalled but still getting lift from the others. Very cool idea. Enjoyable to watch.
High mounted wings don't need dihedrals for stability, when banked and turning, air hitting the side of the fuselage creates a high pressure zone and increases the lift of the inside wing
@@xavierrodriguez2463 Normally with models or real planes the dihedral is there to produce balance and stability in level flight, Not much good for aerobatics though :)
@@baileyharrisRC I would be interested in the examination of that also. I would think the opposite would be better so that if you're nose heavy enough, you can't get enough up elevator to cause the stall to begin with.
My guess would be, to get the tailplane out of the wing's turbulance. Any STOL wing will produce a lot of turbulance. Some used 'T' tails. Great experiment👍
@@baileyharrisRC Hahah, i just saw Samm Sheperd video, your design is much better, cleaner overall and your wing foils are much more efficient than Samm's they are just flat wings. Your stall speed is much better its amazing ! Im gonna give it a try in the future, totally just found out about this, thanks.
Also, another eSTOL design idea, is 4 Small Motors/Props, on each wing, for direct blown wings! They did their RC Model, on a Cessna 150! See this site, for more info: A whole new idea in the Electric Flight Game! www.airflow.aero/blog
This reminds me of the time my teacher snipped the top of my rocket parachute off, which made the parachute stable, instead of twirling. Same exact principle: there's such a thing as too much lift. This is like taking a biplane, and combining the wings together, into a sail like shape. The result is a pocket of air underneath, akin to a sail. Big sail boats often use many sails instead of 1 big sail, probably for this same reason. It produces lots of force, in a stable way. I can't imagine it would be good for high speeds though, because the drag is way too much. Drag is basically the same thing as lift. It's like a parachute/wing. There's one more thing. You could probably get more lift without the traditional airfoil design. As the large topside produces down force.
Airliners use similar techniques - I just forgot their name :) . When the flaps go down, they leave a space on the upside for the laminar flow to get refreshed from the air below the wing. The cost is drag. Cool idea though to make a few stages and visualize them. I´d like to see more experiments.
Yes, the air *accelerates* through the duct passing from high pressure to low. The fast airflow layer energises the attached upper surface boundary layer and keeps it flowing into the increasing pressure gradient towards the trailing edge.
You need to get a hot wire foam cutting bow set up. Much easier to shape you airfoils, and maybe even cut undercambered too, if needed. And set up with ailerons next time. Very neat stuff!
The 'crash' was probably more of a control problem than a stall problem. Ailerons are pretty much useless in this regime, a more effective rudder is called for. This configuration obviously shines in slow flight but will probably stink to high heaven in cruise, at least on a full-scale aircraft.
Looks to me like even at the crash the wing might not have stalled it was the effect of the yaw at such a slow speed. Try again with ailerons so you can stay coordinated but it seems like a great setup. Somewhat similar to mike paytey’s new double leading edge slat wings.
If you ever do a lot of poly foam reshaping again I've got two words for you: Hot knife. A bit of stretched stainless steel wire, a dc power supply and a bit of creativity can make a jig/device that can help you create uniform airfoils. Articulation of the wing vanes (like fowler flaps) can probably also grant some huge benefits, such as a bifurcate design for the rearmost vane so they can be used as ailerons. I think that the logical conclusion is forced air so that the wing resembles large blown fowler flaps. This could be really big for the stol community if it isn't already a thing. Clearly at low airspeeds your elevator will ha e very little effect. Consider the relation of center of lift and center of balance.
Slight error there Bingo.. The automatic slat that automatically eployed at high angles of attack was designed by Frederick Handley Page. As you approach the stall, the low pressure area moves forwards and the slat pops out just before the flow breaks down. It then re-energises the boundary layer and so that it remains attached and delays the stall..
@@petegarnett7731 Thanks for the reply. The second airplane I ever flew solo had fixed slats on the upper wing. That feature was known as slots, as I recall but I may be mistaken. The last plane I flew had movable slats. Wonderful invention.
I wonder if what looked like a stall was actually the CG shifting backwards from the extreme angle. I'm no expert, but it seems to me that flying at slow speed with the CG moving to the rear has got to make for some challenging control issues. BTW making it a twin engine with differential thrust might improve control a lot as well as getting high speed airflow over more of the wing.
@@gpaull2 Unless, since the front wings are at a steeper angle of attack than the rear ones, as it does go into stall, lift is moved from the center of the wing in normal flight to just the two front individual wings. That would have a general effect of moving the CG farther back from the point of lift.
I'm not sure what protocol you're using but if it's a Spektrum, they have a safety feature called THROTTLE CUT. It disables the throttle with a flick of a switch. It's a good thing to use and mandatory at my flying club.
That’s amazing! Just like a sailboat’s sails layed out horizontally. It’s surprising that commercial aircraft do not employed this. It must be because there is no place else to put the fuel. The trade-off.
i assume these act like leading edge slats (not entirely true probably). In that case, there will be an increase in drag, and a minimal increase in lift. The main goal is to decrease the angle of attack.
Hi Bailey, I was impressed by your non stalling wing and wonder if you could investigate an idea that I have had for some time. It seems to me that the flap track nacelles on commercial airliners are a source of high drag and wondered if a different approach might be possible. My idea is to create a biplane arrangement where an extra aero foil is deployed from the top of the wing for takeoff and landing. The biplane flap will have the same top profile as the wing so that it blends seamlessly into the wing for normal flight. The slot created in the wing with the biplane flap deployed must be closed somehow to maintain the lift integrity of the wing. It may be that a spring loaded cover is the answer which is forced down when the biplane flap is stowed and replaces the top profile upon deployment. I think that this could be a much simpler mechanism than the six or eight flap jack screws as used at present. Thanks, Nick Fry
Nice. The large air gaps were smart, it looks like the slots might have been working. The Reynolds Number calculation describes how the air behaves at different scales, on the smaller model scale the air is more sticky and flow could easily block making the slots appear to be absent. Getting the Reynolds number effects right is very complex. Big is beautiful.
Just love your re think on basic wing construction, wonder what the speed varient would be between your wing & the conventional wing. I think you're on to something big lad, more power to you👏👏👏👍
Wing warping works fine for a low performance wood and canvas aircraft, but in anything more serious wing warping doesn't allow enough control and introduces too much stress into the airframe to be viable
@@Davinator2662 Lets experiemnt and find out. Who knows what new matwerials and approaches can create. These are small and slow aircraft anyway. But the faster you go the less input you need on a control surface.
It would be interesting to see it with tell-tales across the entire wing to see if either tip showed any stalling tendencies. What was videoed was likely the un-tufted side stalling, perhaps (which is why it rolled left).
The problem with no ailerons is that you can develop a huge side slip with the rudder and vertical stabiliser stalled and ineffective. With the wing stalling getting out of a developed spiral dive using rudder alone needs some forward stick and a lot of height loss to keep the wing flying, in a spiral descent the angle of attack is higher on the inside wing (imagine going down a spiral staircase, it’s steeper on the inside). The original Flying Flea lacked direct roll control and was a killer as a result.
Great work and v interesting. I understand the Russians built a biplane which is virtually un unstallable, the Antonov AN-2. It has a cunning automatic flap system which extends flaps whenever the airspeed over the wings is too low. If power fails u just keep it level and it will sort of float down - according to Wikipedia
Dude don't listen to any negative comments. You're on to something. This tech works...but the application is not for fixed wings air craft... It's for cyclo copter rotors. Great work brother and continued success.
Super cool! I've thought of this before, awesome to see it done. You should hinge the front of the first three airfoils so that the wing is always the right lift. The last airfoil can still hold ailerons that way, and it kinda serves as a proper wing with three leading edge slats.
That was a great experiment. At some point, stall or not, you just won't have enough lift to fly. When you crashed your spiral prop wash was probably dominating the normal wing air flow plus the reaction torque from speeding up the prop just couldn't be overcome, especially without ailerons. Another thing to try might be slower and slower snap stalls, or try to do a crow-mode type descent with the elevator full up.
@@baileyharrisRC One more idea, I tried gluing on little vortex generators on a Multiplex Acromaster, achieved almost what you did but retains the original wing. It had with a lot more drag (used too many) but flew like it was on rails and could not stall it. You can make them out of thin plastic.
If you make the inner and outer part of the wing the same, you will still have tip stall at low speeds. Now what has bee proven the test of time is wing tip washout. This is the way to reduce, but still not eliminate wing tip stall. It's a nice attempt, but you're not reinventing the wheel here. I have TUFT lines on my hang glider that serve the same purpose as your yarn strings. In FACT, that's exactly what they are made up of. Those help me determine my wing stall at different speeds of TRIM flight. If the TUFT lines get ruffled, I am at the edge of stalling!!!!!! I then move my hang point/ COG forward to eliminate that. The difference may only be about 2 to 3 MPG air speed, but it TRULY matters. In a straight wing as yours, it will make a bigger difference than a swept back wing as when you lose airspeed, the delta wing will pitch down easier than a straight wing will as in your case. The most impressive thing about this video is your AWSOME FRICKEN HAIR DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!! You proved that you can still stall even at slow speeds. We've all done this as beginners. As an hang glider pilot, I can tell you that speed is your friend!!!!!!!! No need to fly at stall speed EVER!!!!!!!
Just one suggestion: put flat, wing tip end-plates (latger than the profile of the airfoil) to keep the airflow over the wing stable when the stall approaches. This will cause a mild loss of altitude (parachuting) but no catastrophic stall.
I think you're right that it's harder to stall. I think the reason people don't use the idea is because it gets poor performance. In other words it can't fly fast and lean. It's why you don't see a lot of biplanes except in cases where flying slow is important like for crop dusting, aerobatics, and towing banners.
Flying into a strong headwind helps… Fule economy pretty much goes out the window, and I imagine putting a mechanism into the structure to retract all the additional flaps being added here would be a pretty serious weight penalty…
Our Cessna 150 (N51305) after a new NACA foil and a stall kit added our take off speed was around 12 knots. With the right wind speed we could take off backwards. Dryden NASA out at Edwards Air Force base even tested our plane. We have VHS tapes of them testing it. Our plane is the military grey with the letters RG on the tail with the air force bars and stripes on the side. One day our father was flying in to Mojave airport. He was cleared to land. Then 4 Apache helicopters were cleared to land. They flew right under him. He lined the plane up with the 4 helicopters. When the helicopters landed vertical, so did our dad. It freaked out the helicopter pilots. They all went to the tower to find out where this new vertical take off and landing plane was. The tower guy was our friend so he knew but he didn't tell them. This was back in the early 90's.
If you define stall as air becoming turbulent then in fact I don't think it stalled. The reason you lost control is a) too little airflow on control surfaces and b) no speed means no lift, no matter if the flow is laminar or turbulent, which makes your plane act as a brick.
The down side is that the wings that are not aerodynamic to the angle of attack create a drag. But at least it wont drag into a stall, thats when they will be at the angle of attack. 😂
In this video, you state that the airplane stalls when it gets too slow, but really it's the relative angle of attack. Minor detail with serious implications
The reason it wash mushing along with full back elevator, is that as overall AOA increased, the front aerofoils will lose lift, while the rear aerofoils keep generating lift, moving the Center of Lift aft, making the aircraft feel more nose heavy. This effectively drops the nose after a certain point, preventing a full stall unless you work really hard at it. This is how slats and slots are designed to work. Fun project! Cool video :)
19 likes, your logic is reversed though! the rear stalls first. The drop in lift results in *sink* and the horizontal stabiliser *then* raises the tail and re-establishes wing flow.
Yes the tail is what stalls and in this case brought the model down. I wonder how that would work in a canard design.
Y’all dumb af even caring about this nerdy shit. Don’t y’all see the fucking dinosaur he’s tamed on his desk????
@@NikosWings No the (lower attitude) Horizontal stab' is flying and generates tail up/nose down lift.
Look up aeroplane stability on line.
Canards stall the (higher attitude) foreplanes first lowering the nose. This enhances their basic safety.
Beech Staggerwing all over again.
I heard there's a practical application of this concept, the Antonov AN-2 (wiki: "The An-2 has no stall speed, a fact which is quoted in the operating handbook. A note from the pilot's handbook reads: "If the engine quits in instrument conditions or at night, the pilot should pull the control column full aft and keep the wings level. The leading-edge slats will snap out at about 64 km/h (40 mph) and when the airplane slows to a forward speed of about 40 km/h (25 mph), the airplane will sink at about a parachute descent rate until the aircraft hits the ground."[4] As such, pilots of the An-2 have stated that they are capable of flying the aircraft in full control at 48 km/h (30 mph) (as a contrast, a Cessna four-seater light aircraft has a stall speed of around 80 km/h (50 mph)).[citation needed] This slow stall speed makes it possible for the aircraft to fly backwards relative to the ground: if the aircraft is pointed into a headwind of roughly 56 km/h (35 mph), it will travel backwards at 8 km/h (5 mph) whilst under full control.")
yo thanks this is really cool
This is called slots. There are such planes. Bush pilots like to use them for short take-offs and landings.
@@petrsedlak4761 только не slot, а stol
@@spacer_feed8411 What? Of what?
@@petrsedlak4761 correct name "stol"
You write "slot"
Some good research there. We studied a similar concept in college tested by NASA in the 70’s. I wasn’t in college in the 70’s that’s when the concept first appeared. Be careful, what happened when you bumped the throttle with the model in hand happened to me but I bumped it to full throttle and arm was far enough from it that just a half an inch of APC prop dug into my arm, cut through major tendons and partially lost function in my hand. Throttle cut mate - trust me!
ouch how is it now? rly hope you did no loose out in oportunities due to it you have my condolences
Damn sorry to hear about your accident l've broken fingers in props (glow engine and full scale aircraft) before.Sucks but never lost any use of anything such as you but I guess that's the price we pay for the game we play.As for that wing l'm going to look into that . Great experiment! Keep your airspeed up and fly safe.
Wow. I never thought throttle cut could save such a deep cut! Thank you for reminding us of the risks that we all seem to ignore. Were you ever able to recover?
I accidentally reversed the throttle axis in a model I was setting up for a flight (12 inch carbon prop) & it sent me straight to the ER. Basically, as soon as I calibrated the throttle it was at 100% instead of 0, the plane jumped up at me, cutting both of my legs and one hand, actually going all the way though the fingernail (carbon is sharp lol). It really sucked, but luckily no lasting damage. It could’ve been a lot worse.
Done the same thing with drones twice with me and a buddy Lucky it wasn’t that bad I agree turn off input devices when it in use
Ah yes, the _Venetian Blind_ wing.
“Hey, you’re blockin’ out the sun!”
Your cat looks even more strange than your wing.
Jokes aside, I swear I was thinking about doing the same thing. Thinking of the function of flaps and slats, I said to myself "why not making a wing all made of slats/flaps?" And here comes your video!
By the way I agree it seems that no stall occurred in the crash. Rather a lack of control at very low speed due to torque from the prop and not enough airstream on the rudder.
Right on. Like window blinds. The sections should be able to move then lock into place like luvers and form one wing. Then be able to open at slower speeds.
Lol, that is a strange looking cat.
While It too slow Profile ist. It isnt unstable foils, its too low speed, too much climb rate....
You can cut a bunch of equal-length pieces by wrapping it around a toilet roll and then cutting them all in one line.
In practice, having an un-stallable wing is like having an unsinkable ship.
not really lol, you can still shoot it down
@@ryushev2000 My point was that every time humanity makes a grand claim of that sort, like launching a ship that is hailed as "unsinkable," it seems that all of Nature and Nature's God set out to prove its designers wrong and tragedy follows. No shooting required.
@@ReflectedMiles ah ok, i get it now
Well no - we have actually unsinkable ships, but for a wing "unstallable" is nearly impossible. Stall just means that after a certain angle of attack the lift is no longer increasing but decreasing. A wing that can be said to be unstallable would already start with so much lower lift that it is not viable for basically anything.
This wing here is very good already to the point that it is really hard to stall it, but it is just not viable.
For Ships unsinkable designs are mostly only used for 2 applications:
rescue boats and small commercial boats ( in the US basically all small boats are required to be unsinkable - you can cut them in half and submerge them and they MUST still stay afloat).
@@ABaumstumpf You will have to inform the marine industry of your “truth,” then, since we regularly send bulk carriers, especially, to the bottom. If the industry thought those huge losses were avoidable with a design change to something unsinkable, they would avoid them. (Just filling a hull space with foam so it hangs upside down in the water until it smashes into rocks somewhere doesn’t count-it has to be _functionally_ unsinkable such that lives and cargo are not lost.)
Bailey that is a really great experiment. The angle of attack on your multi element airfoil is so close to the angle of attack on the slotted wingtips of soaring birds and this is the first time that I have ever seen anyone replicate it. all experiments of slotted wingtips completely miss this fact. Bravo keep up the good work.
This was a wing once I imagined.
It's good seeing it realized.
Thanks, and congrats.
Check out Scrappy's wing.
Same principle as a multi-element wing on a F1 car. Just upside down. Good work.
Put and RPM meeter on the motor or a speed laser pointing at the propeller while flying and during stall test, see how much more does the motor and propeller has to work to keep the airplane up with the improved wing and a regular wing, this will let you know if the improved with is worth it and compered to a regular one.
The first unsalable aircraft was the Waterman Aerobile from 1935. There is a flight simulator module for FSX10 to explore it with. You need to sweep the wings back to solve the low speed stability problem, and I think reduce the wing tip lift a little. These will give the plane a nose up attitude as the air flow diminishes and the assembly should just mush down as the Aerobile did, I expect.
Very impressive engineering, testing, and photography! Keep up the good work.
Build a Klein-Fogelman plane. It's sort of a constant-speed airfoil and it doesn't matter if the discontinuity of the skin is in the top or bottom last third of the wing chord. The wing root(s) apply quite a torque to the fuselage when the wing flies. It's awesome.
probably automatic leading edge slats would be easier and just as effective with the advantage of normal wing structure for fuel etc. the advantage of this multiple wing is higher wing loading per individual wing which will be smoother in turbulence
Mike Patey made a STOL aircraft with similar design but adaptable slots to change the profile during flight. The plane is called Scrappy.
“Slats” :)
@@KeithMan170 Sorry about autocorrect
Interesting idea and work. Seems to produce really stable conditions for very slow flying. Thanks for publishing this good "research".
Those little yarn pieces are called tell tails in the sailing racing world. Most serious racers have them for trimming the sails better. I am really impressed with your experiment here. Excellent job. I stumbled on to this video but almost passed it by. And then said, wait a minute, I've gotta check this out.
I'm a 64 year old surfboard and boat designer. And my dad and I made many balsa gliders back in the early '60's, experimenting with all kinds of designs. Your experiment was extremely well done and accurate on each wing foil, angles, and construction method. Nice dry humor to the video also. I didn't think this design would make that much difference, but I was amazed at how efficient it is. That's crazy how good it works. Nice work...
Very cool project. Opens up lots of possibilities to add control surfaces to the individual wings
Genius idea. And love your friend. He’s so chill with an elbow to the face. :)
That's my idea from over 40 years ago. I drew it but never built it. Mine was to have each slat be movable so it could close up or open when needed and be able to move independently on each slat to be able to experiment with air flow variations
The big problem was l would have had to use solid balsa or a rib and spar construction for each slat.
Back then we didn't have any foam or balsa substitute for large sized experiments like yours
Good luck and l am glad your work seems a success
The first fix would be to add about double the vertical tail surface...and even consider adding more horizontal as well. simple cuz those surfaces are the ones now stalling causing the wag and lack of control. To do that you would need to use a lot of open surfaces covered by film to keep it light so it doesn't throw out the balance.Ay those low speeds , ailerons have little use but a huge fiin will hold it right on track.
Excellent demonstration. I feel this made my investment well justified. ☺ This man is another Kelly Johnson.
Excellent demonstration young man. Thank you.
I would say it did stall. Just at a different time.
As it pitched up relative to the forward momentum, it was able to maintain lift as long as it had inertia.
But with the high angle of attack, drag slowed it to the stall speed. The propeller is at the wrong angle to maintain that attitude of flight.
Increasing thrust recovers the aircraft, but with an abrupt change in direction.
Fortunately the plane had enough power and thrust to pull this off. It saved the experiment.
This is definitely an interesting concept that deserves exploration. I’m just not sure what next move might be.
Great video 👍😁
Well, that’s a zero flow over the airfoil scenario.. which means it’s impossible to produce lift, and of course because of that there is no such thing as an un-stallable airfoil.
Bird wing feathers are similar. They are separate but close together components of the wing, excepting run in a parralel direction to the bird's body, where your wing components run perpendicular.
Your multi-element wing resembles the wings on Indy cars and formula 1 cars at the slower speed tracks. Very cool
Did a report in college on multi airfoil wings, granted in more of an automotive application, but It's very cool to see another practical application like this
Back in the 60's NASA played around with this design but found it too hard to maintain. They used even thinner gaps which then lead down the path of porous wings. Very cool you built this!
What's going on is the gaps between all of the airfoils creates a circulation effect that causes the flow of the air over the surface to behave in such a way that it increase the overall lift of the entire structure. As you explained, since the angle of incidence each wing in the overall structure is different, and they stall at different times. The leading wing may be stalled but still getting lift from the others. Very cool idea. Enjoyable to watch.
I noticed the wing had no dihedral , maybe adding some small dihedral tips. Great vid mate
High mounted wings don't need dihedrals for stability, when banked and turning, air hitting the side of the fuselage creates a high pressure zone and increases the lift of the inside wing
@@xavierrodriguez2463 ok gotcha thanks
@@MrHawkeyegamer np
@@MrHawkeyegamer you could also be right about it needing dihedrals, sometimes the normal stability isn't enough.
@@xavierrodriguez2463 Normally with models or real planes the dihedral is there to produce balance and stability in level flight, Not much good for aerobatics though :)
Отличная попытка! Я давно думал о таком крыле, чтобы устранить завихрения на больших углах атаки. Здорово, что это реально работает!
I love it. I'm glad to see youtube recommending some smaller channels right now too. Keep it up, I'm sure you'll get noticed!
Nice work bro. I needed those wings during my green horn days. I think it would be an amazing product 👍
A wing like this needs to be mounted more forward. Aeronautical engineer.
Explain why.
@@baileyharrisRC I would be interested in the examination of that also. I would think the opposite would be better so that if you're nose heavy enough, you can't get enough up elevator to cause the stall to begin with.
I think a real engineer would have said why. I'm skeptical this was a real engineer.
My guess would be, to get the tailplane out of the wing's turbulance. Any STOL wing will produce a lot of turbulance. Some used 'T' tails.
Great experiment👍
Address center of gravity
Lets be honest here, without the guidance of Mr Lizard you couldnt complete it. Well done sir !
AurorA 360 dang, you just exposed me...
@@baileyharrisRC Hahah, i just saw Samm Sheperd video, your design is much better, cleaner overall and your wing foils are much more efficient than Samm's they are just flat wings. Your stall speed is much better its amazing ! Im gonna give it a try in the future, totally just found out about this, thanks.
AurorA 360 sweet I hope it works! Thanks a lot!
Also, another eSTOL design idea, is 4 Small Motors/Props, on each wing, for direct blown wings! They did their RC Model, on a Cessna 150!
See this site, for more info:
A whole new idea in the Electric Flight Game!
www.airflow.aero/blog
This reminds me of the time my teacher snipped the top of my rocket parachute off, which made the parachute stable, instead of twirling. Same exact principle: there's such a thing as too much lift.
This is like taking a biplane, and combining the wings together, into a sail like shape.
The result is a pocket of air underneath, akin to a sail. Big sail boats often use many sails instead of 1 big sail, probably for this same reason. It produces lots of force, in a stable way.
I can't imagine it would be good for high speeds though, because the drag is way too much. Drag is basically the same thing as lift.
It's like a parachute/wing.
There's one more thing. You could probably get more lift without the traditional airfoil design. As the large topside produces down force.
Did it occur to you to use a hotwire to form your airfoil sections? Much simpler, quicker, and more accurate.
Airliners use similar techniques - I just forgot their name :) . When the flaps go down, they leave a space on the upside for the laminar flow to get refreshed from the air below the wing. The cost is drag. Cool idea though to make a few stages and visualize them. I´d like to see more experiments.
also, slats
Yes, the air *accelerates* through the duct passing from high pressure to low. The fast airflow layer energises the attached upper surface boundary layer and keeps it flowing into the increasing pressure gradient towards the trailing edge.
@@Not.Your.Business and *slotted flaps,* area increasing fowler flaps also have slots.
Proper aeronautical engineering. Top marks.
You need to get a hot wire foam cutting bow set up.
Much easier to shape you airfoils, and maybe even cut undercambered too, if needed.
And set up with ailerons next time.
Very neat stuff!
I’d wear a respirator or at least mask when sanding that stuff! 😂 cool video
The 'crash' was probably more of a control problem than a stall problem. Ailerons are pretty much useless in this regime, a more effective rudder is called for.
This configuration obviously shines in slow flight but will probably stink to high heaven in cruise, at least on a full-scale aircraft.
Absolutely. It’s basically a wing of just flaps/slats. Great low speed but REALLY inefficient
Really impressive, Bailey.
Excellent work, very clever. Thank you!
Looks to me like even at the crash the wing might not have stalled it was the effect of the yaw at such a slow speed. Try again with ailerons so you can stay coordinated but it seems like a great setup. Somewhat similar to mike paytey’s new double leading edge slat wings.
If you ever do a lot of poly foam reshaping again I've got two words for you:
Hot knife.
A bit of stretched stainless steel wire, a dc power supply and a bit of creativity can make a jig/device that can help you create uniform airfoils. Articulation of the wing vanes (like fowler flaps) can probably also grant some huge benefits, such as a bifurcate design for the rearmost vane so they can be used as ailerons.
I think that the logical conclusion is forced air so that the wing resembles large blown fowler flaps.
This could be really big for the stol community if it isn't already a thing.
Clearly at low airspeeds your elevator will ha e very little effect. Consider the relation of center of lift and center of balance.
Geoffrey DeHavilland invented the slat. Looks like your wing is comprised of slats and nothing else. Looks pretty cool.
Slight error there Bingo.. The automatic slat that automatically eployed at high angles of attack was designed by Frederick Handley Page. As you approach the stall, the low pressure area moves forwards and the slat pops out just before the flow breaks down. It then re-energises the boundary layer and so that it remains attached and delays the stall..
@@petegarnett7731 Thanks for the reply. The second airplane I ever flew solo had fixed slats on the upper wing. That feature was known as slots, as I recall but I may be mistaken. The last plane I flew had movable slats. Wonderful invention.
Make it bigger and you gonna win any STOL competition! Congratulation to your work!
I wonder if what looked like a stall was actually the CG shifting backwards from the extreme angle. I'm no expert, but it seems to me that flying at slow speed with the CG moving to the rear has got to make for some challenging control issues. BTW making it a twin engine with differential thrust might improve control a lot as well as getting high speed airflow over more of the wing.
CG does not change from angle of attack. CG is fixed unless weight inside the aircraft moves fore or aft. Are you referring to center of lift?
@@gpaull2 Unless, since the front wings are at a steeper angle of attack than the rear ones, as it does go into stall, lift is moved from the center of the wing in normal flight to just the two front individual wings. That would have a general effect of moving the CG farther back from the point of lift.
Nobody’s mentioning the lizard!! Dude is so chill!! Great work
I'm not sure what protocol you're using but if it's a Spektrum, they have a safety feature called THROTTLE CUT. It disables the throttle with a flick of a switch. It's a good thing to use and mandatory at my flying club.
The US actually experimented with wings similar to this in WW2
Came for the wing stayed for the little wingless dragon
Good stuff my man. Much appreciated. Liked and subbed.
That’s amazing! Just like a sailboat’s sails layed out horizontally. It’s surprising that commercial aircraft do not employed this. It must be because there is no place else to put the fuel. The trade-off.
I'm wondering about trade offs too. Perhaps efficient use of fuel being high on the list. 4 leading edges should create more drag.
Ok, the stall speed looks like it was reduced... but was the lift changed because of the wing design? How about the drag?
i assume these act like leading edge slats (not entirely true probably). In that case, there will be an increase in drag, and a minimal increase in lift. The main goal is to decrease the angle of attack.
Looks a gifted engineer in the making
Hi Bailey, I was impressed by your non stalling wing and wonder if you could investigate an idea that I have had for some time.
It seems to me that the flap track nacelles on commercial airliners are a source of high drag and wondered if a different approach might be possible. My idea is to create a biplane arrangement where an extra aero foil is deployed from the top of the wing for takeoff and landing. The biplane flap will have the same top profile as the wing so that it blends seamlessly into the wing for normal flight. The slot created in the wing with the biplane flap deployed must be closed somehow to maintain the lift integrity of the wing. It may be that a spring loaded cover is the answer which is forced down when the biplane flap is stowed and replaces the top profile upon deployment. I think that this could be a much simpler mechanism than the six or eight flap jack screws as used at present. Thanks, Nick Fry
sounds like a slat
Nice work. Your video made my engineering class video list.
This is super exciting. The possibilities are endless.
Excellent video.
Have you considered playing around with Kline-Fogelman airfoils?
Nice. The large air gaps were smart, it looks like the slots might have been working. The Reynolds Number calculation describes how the air behaves at different scales, on the smaller model scale the air is more sticky and flow could easily block making the slots appear to be absent. Getting the Reynolds number effects right is very complex. Big is beautiful.
RIP Samm.
Also looks like a good airfoil to do a long loiter time FPV plane
I loved that video of Samm. He died way too soon. Loved his mind and work on youtube.
Ribbons/rope/string used like that are know as "tell-tails".
Man, this is such a good idea. I want to see more experiments with it
Just love your re think on basic wing construction, wonder what the speed varient would be between your wing & the conventional wing. I think you're on to something big lad, more power to you👏👏👏👍
In the wing area modeled on the first tape, the edge of the wing should be below and in front of the second tape.
Nice experiment!
Tons of drag but great experiment. Love the simple execution and the interesting video!!
i love that your Beardie is just chilling, so curious
I want to see wing warping brought back and experimented with instead of the conventional control surfaces.
Let us know how that goes.
Wing warping works fine for a low performance wood and canvas aircraft, but in anything more serious wing warping doesn't allow enough control and introduces too much stress into the airframe to be viable
@@Davinator2662 Lets experiemnt and find out. Who knows what new matwerials and approaches can create. These are small and slow aircraft anyway. But the faster you go the less input you need on a control surface.
It has been done somewhat with the X-53 program.
That last flight it didn't seem like the wing stalled at all. It just ran out of thrust to keep the airplane a loft vertically
It would be interesting to see it with tell-tales across the entire wing to see if either tip showed any stalling tendencies. What was videoed was likely the un-tufted side stalling, perhaps (which is why it rolled left).
I would say the same. No need to be stalled, just too slow to generate enough lift. Unstallable does not mean you can stop in the air :)
The problem with no ailerons is that you can develop a huge side slip with the rudder and vertical stabiliser stalled and ineffective. With the wing stalling getting out of a developed spiral dive using rudder alone needs some forward stick and a lot of height loss to keep the wing flying, in a spiral descent the angle of attack is higher on the inside wing (imagine going down a spiral staircase, it’s steeper on the inside). The original Flying Flea lacked direct roll control and was a killer as a result.
Great demonstration of laminar flow
If you fly it backwards or at 0 airspeed it will stall regardless of anything. Physics cannot be defeated.
Pretty chill, weird, dog you got there
Great work and v interesting. I understand the Russians built a biplane which is virtually un unstallable, the Antonov AN-2. It has a cunning automatic flap system which extends flaps whenever the airspeed over the wings is too low. If power fails u just keep it level and it will sort of float down - according to Wikipedia
Looks like an aeronautical engineer in the making
Dude don't listen to any negative comments. You're on to something. This tech works...but the application is not for fixed wings air craft... It's for cyclo copter rotors. Great work brother and continued success.
Super cool! I've thought of this before, awesome to see it done. You should hinge the front of the first three airfoils so that the wing is always the right lift. The last airfoil can still hold ailerons that way, and it kinda serves as a proper wing with three leading edge slats.
nice one, i also suspected that none of the wings would stall because each wing attaches more and more laminar flow
That's a nice experiment!
That was a great experiment. At some point, stall or not, you just won't have enough lift to fly. When you crashed your spiral prop wash was probably dominating the normal wing air flow plus the reaction torque from speeding up the prop just couldn't be overcome, especially without ailerons. Another thing to try might be slower and slower snap stalls, or try to do a crow-mode type descent with the elevator full up.
Good ideas! I’ll keep those in mind, I plan to have a part three coming soon!
@@baileyharrisRC One more idea, I tried gluing on little vortex generators on a Multiplex Acromaster, achieved almost what you did but retains the original wing. It had with a lot more drag (used too many) but flew like it was on rails and could not stall it. You can make them out of thin plastic.
The simplest level of complexity would be some dihedral in the main wing slats for an effective RUDDER. GREAT EFFERT !
If you make the inner and outer part of the wing the same, you will still have tip stall at low speeds. Now what has bee proven the test of time is wing tip washout. This is the way to reduce, but still not eliminate wing tip stall. It's a nice attempt, but you're not reinventing the wheel here. I have TUFT lines on my hang glider that serve the same purpose as your yarn strings. In FACT, that's exactly what they are made up of. Those help me determine my wing stall at different speeds of TRIM flight. If the TUFT lines get ruffled, I am at the edge of stalling!!!!!! I then move my hang point/ COG forward to eliminate that. The difference may only be about 2 to 3 MPG air speed, but it TRULY matters. In a straight wing as yours, it will make a bigger difference than a swept back wing as when you lose airspeed, the delta wing will pitch down easier than a straight wing will as in your case.
The most impressive thing about this video is your AWSOME FRICKEN HAIR DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!! You proved that you can still stall even at slow speeds. We've all done this as beginners. As an hang glider pilot, I can tell you that speed is your friend!!!!!!!! No need to fly at stall speed EVER!!!!!!!
Cool idea. Just like how a sloop or cutter's sails work together.
Just one suggestion: put flat, wing tip end-plates (latger than the profile of the airfoil) to keep the airflow over the wing stable when the stall approaches. This will cause a mild loss of altitude (parachuting) but no catastrophic stall.
I knew it would, because' Yeh!👍Congratulations, Awesome Science! Thank You✈
You should always wear a respirator when sanding. No reason to cause lung cancer if you don’t have to. Other than that it’s a great video.
Oh my god that pet lizard is cuuuute and so chill
I think you're right that it's harder to stall. I think the reason people don't use the idea is because it gets poor performance. In other words it can't fly fast and lean. It's why you don't see a lot of biplanes except in cases where flying slow is important like for crop dusting, aerobatics, and towing banners.
Flying into a strong headwind helps… Fule economy pretty much goes out the window, and I imagine putting a mechanism into the structure to retract all the additional flaps being added here would be a pretty serious weight penalty…
Not if it was done cleverly
Great proof of concept.
Our Cessna 150 (N51305) after a new NACA foil and a stall kit added our take off speed was around 12 knots. With the right wind speed we could take off backwards.
Dryden NASA out at Edwards Air Force base even tested our plane. We have VHS tapes of them testing it.
Our plane is the military grey with the letters RG on the tail with the air force bars and stripes on the side.
One day our father was flying in to Mojave airport. He was cleared to land. Then 4 Apache helicopters were cleared to land. They flew right under him. He lined the plane up with the 4 helicopters. When the helicopters landed vertical, so did our dad. It freaked out the helicopter pilots.
They all went to the tower to find out where this new vertical take off and landing plane was. The tower guy was our friend so he knew but he didn't tell them.
This was back in the early 90's.
Your beardie is a cutie! It makes me miss mine.
CE concept réduit bien la traîné induite ........... 👍🎓🔦🌷
at 4:17, nevermind that the Camera makes the dom tail HEAVY. this fact is not affected, by having a good cg location; assuming that is so.
If you define stall as air becoming turbulent then in fact I don't think it stalled. The reason you lost control is a) too little airflow on control surfaces and b) no speed means no lift, no matter if the flow is laminar or turbulent, which makes your plane act as a brick.
Would ailerons help.. know they do not work on stalled wings but your wing has lift until deep stall at high angles of attack.
The down side is that the wings that are not aerodynamic to the angle of attack create a drag. But at least it wont drag into a stall, thats when they will be at the angle of attack. 😂
your comment is bad and you should feel bad.
@@aerobyrdable
Should I? I'll make a note of that.
In this video, you state that the airplane stalls when it gets too slow, but really it's the relative angle of attack. Minor detail with serious implications