Alpha cards are easy to fake
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ส.ค. 2023
- Today's video is a short rant about the danger of corner-clipping to Alpha collectors. Too many people worry about re-backing, but corner clipping a beta card is so easy to do, and the potential profit to a scammer even from commons and uncommons is so large, that everyone should be on alert.
#MagicTheGathering #LimitedEditionAlpha #BuyerBeware
If you want a deeper dive into vintage card authentication, check out my longer video on the subject:
• Authenticating A/B/U M...
To see all the errors in the Alpha set that were corrected by the Beta print-run, check out this video:
• Everything Wrong with ...
** UPDATE **
A viewer reached out to share some excellent resources. He's compiled an extensive catalog of Alpha card registrations, blemishes, and print dots. There's also a text channel in the server for sharing questionable cards and comparing notes. Check out these links, courtesy of discord user "Library of Leng"
Complete Alpha RARE guide: mega.nz/file/Ue9mCBKR#P9MvK9u...
Discord server with LEA/LEB/CE/IE information: / discord
**
I'm Mike, the Alpha Hoarder, and I'm sharing/documenting my wild collection here on YT. Join me while I ramble about old cards and MTG finance, and look at cool stuff.
hello@alphahoarder.com
Mike the AlphaHoarder @ 375 Carlls Path #73, Deer Park NY 11729 - บันเทิง
I have an upcoming video about corner cutting errors and weird factory corners, which includes some video of how corner rounding occurred.
A large stack of square corner cards are forced through the corner cutting die with a hydraulic piston.
The flip is caused by the resistance of the die shearing the corners. The Alpha corners have more resistance than Beta because of the larger radius cut. The die is contacting a larger surface area.
The craft store corner rounder doesn't cause the flip because it's only cutting one card and has a thin blade.
It takes a lot more force to push a stack of 1000 cards through a die made of quarter inch tool steel.
Very cool details as always! Makes sense, I didn’t realize the process cut so many at once 🧐 Looking forward to your video
I quit Magic two years ago. No regrets. Been playing for over 25 years but it's different now and it's not going back. Hasbro won't stop pumping out sets and the scammers can now make fakes that get graded and sold. It's over. Time to move along.
I share a lot of those feelings, and certainly understand where you’re coming from. So you actually jumped prior to M30? Guess you had a hell of a “told you so” moment with your play group lol!
😂
@@AlphaHoarder Yeah I jumped about 6 months before M30. I realized that I couldn't financially keep up with the releases and that the cards were just getting goofier and more powerful by the set and it was all going in the wrong direction. Then I saw fakes getting graded and I thought well that's it: the game side of things has gone to shit and the collectible side is now worthless because the fakes are just as good. Indeed, why even bother buying real Magic cards anymore when the fakes are functionally identical as well as physically identical? You're just paying for the feeling of owning something valuable....think about it. It makes zero sense to me.
@@AlphaHoarder Oh I should say that I have kept my collection and not sold it. I don't have much but I have a Gaea's Cradle and a mint Tawnos's Coffin among my favourites and the expensive cards are all in nice binders with my extensive Legend of the Five Rings collection from the 1995-2003 period and my less valuable cards I still have in decks that I will play against each other for the pleasure of the mechanics when I feel the itch. Commander player at the end exclusively as I always loved Highlander as it was called back in the day. Pod politics and bad manners always exhausted me anyways so I don't really miss playing other people. When friends visit who know how to play Magic sometimes we still have a game so I am just done spending money on it and playing regularly in pods every week like I did for a very long time :)
Good to see you on again! Thanks for the education and the feeling of dread that I will carry with me the rest of the day
🤣😂
Love your videos. Really interesting perspective. Rudy (and others) can definitely be a bit too easy going about fakes. Sadly the fakes are only going to get better over time. Pays to know your stuff.
Indeed! Thanks for the kind words
Always thrilled when you post! Don't be discouraged by the downtrend in finance. This is when you could be posting about all the crazy good deals you get!!
I have got some that are mind blowing…!
!!!@@AlphaHoarder
I really enjoy your videos, i started playing during unlimited, once sold a 7or 8 beta lotus for 700dollars, realized my mistake and the guy let me buy it back the feel of the old cards is incredible
Oh man! Lucky save there 😅
You need to stop saying 7-8 until its graded that's the dumb shit Pokémon collectors do don't be like them
Subbed! Thank you for the info! I'm a minor collector of alpha cards (mostly basic lands) and I have friends who ask me about card authenticity regularly. Now I can add this bit about the corner flip if and when questions on alpha authenticity come up. And looks like the alpha cards in my collection are legit, which is always great to know.
Appreciate you checking out the video!
Great video as always, I learn something new from just about every video of yours. I appreciate the work you put into sharing with the community
Thanks for that!
Great technical video.
Miss the new content - have to wait the stasis
Great video. This was so captivating that I packed 2 orders wrong while watching this. I have some ideas that we can work on to make this better. I will DM you!
Appreciate that feedback 🤣
Great video as always! Glad to see a new video.
Whelp, now I know what I’m doing tomorrow : checking my Alphas for corner flips 😅
It’s funny because I avoided collecting Beta because of the greater chance of rebacks 🤷♂️
Buyer Beware indeed 👍
Haha nice 👍 I’ve spent many hours examining corners, and it can be cathartic lol. Appreciate you watching.
Mike love the videos.
You clearly get enjoyment from research, tracking, testing of markets, etc.
If your MTG hobby slows down. Where would you go for mental stimulation?
You say Work has picked up, but anything else that you can dive into like MTG?
Thanks!
I don’t have any other hobby outlets quite like Mtg, which is one of the reasons it sticks so well to me. The other things I do for mental discharging are more closely related to my regular work… programming iOS games or something like that. Perhaps I need to expand my horizons 🤔
Great video man. Been trying to slowly collect some alpha, this will certainly be helpful.
Nice!
Good point with the back-cut leftovers. I imagine it really takes the right machine and/or settings to leave the precise corner flips as on Alpha cards. Likely only big industry cutters can do that while normal hobby-store cutters just give it a clean corner, even if the radius and all else match.
Yeah I suspect you are right. It’s good news for us all long as people know to check.
I loved the intro.
Good job on the topic.
Much appreciated!
thanks for sharing Mike. INdeed, while I only have less than a deck's worth of alpha / beta cards combned , there are some that look like they could be either. Gets hard to tell.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Much easier under some magnification if you have a tool handy!
Great video. I'm wondering - have you ever seen any evidence of grading companies grading fake Alpha cards? Same question for Ebay authenticity. Those two are my biggest fears, as there is little to no recourse for a refund if an "authority" has deemed it authentic.
I have heard stories of both, but I’ve never seen it firsthand. I have seen plenty of other grading mistakes… I have multiple cards that are mislabeled to the wrong set, and other errors of that sort, which make it quite plausible that one of these could slip by. That is one advantage to PSA, because they will financially back their label, even if they made a mistake.
I appreciate your content. Thank you for this information.
Thanks for watching
Thanks for the content- hope all is well amigo
Thanks for stopping by!
Good video to help people know what to look for. To the trained eye, though, it's impossible to make a perfect fake of anything Alpha, Beta, CE, Unlimited, Revised, and all 4 Horseman sets. I would say the same about most Silver Age (FE through Urza) and Bronze (MM through Scourge). Although the newer it is, the easier it is to fake. With most brand new cards, you can't tell if they're authentic unless you opened them yourself. There are so many inconsistencies and quality issues with print runs now. One of many damning facts that make everything new uncollectable beyond enjoyment of the art and playing the game. Most newer cards have no chance to appreciate in value. For this and so many other reasons.
Yeah very true about the news stuff… sad direction…
it raises an interesting epistemological question when the new cards have such a large variance that forgeries fall neatly within the parameters of factory-made official cards commissioned and sold by hasbro. you'd almost have to call them "unlicensed" cards rather than fake cards. it seems to me that they are rapidly approaching the area in which all they have to wave around are the intellectual property rights.
interesting video, as always, mike. i actually made a video about this too, but it great to see your take on it!
and the feeling in the beginning, i can very much relate to that! 👊🏻
hehe…such a cool comment: not the most climactic of videos 😜👊🏻
Always appreciate it when you drop by! Yeah I can’t figure out TH-cam… almost didn’t post this one because I thought it was too pointless in the end. All that wind up for me to say, “corner flip check works sometimes.” Maybe the title was more click-baity than I intended, but for some reason, people watch 🤷♂️
@@AlphaHoarder it took me a while to fully watch this one, but it has been very hectic work-wise since i have been back from holidays. some unexpected developments in my game studio that caught me off guard. but i always enjoy the calm approach and the thoughtful talk.
and don’t get me started about understanding youtube…! i feel i make good videos, but every time i upload i loose subs, views are down to a minimum and this has been going on since feb. so yeah. i upload anyway for the people that stay and are here, happy to do so, and i hope you will do too! it can be frustrating at the moment, though, and that is caused by many many factors! 🙏🏻
Just a video idea. Maybe a video for people who are interested at buying their first alpha cards. Maybe site recommendations, tips and tricks, what cards to start with etc.
Thanks for the idea!
Mike, I thoroughly enjoy your videos. My business sets up at shows buying and selling cards and whenever I'm presented Alpha cards, I always keep you in mind. What would Mike think about this card? Ironically, I had two Alpha Shivan Dragons presented in one day (one PSA 5, the other probably a very nice LP but enough storage wear to prevent NM). Both sellers wanted retail type prices for their cards and as you've mentioned, the market just isn't where it was a couple of years ago.
Magic 30 really was just a huge slap in the face of the collectors that carried WOTC through their infancy and into a stable entity. The Reserve List was a necessity or their company likely would have gone under at the time. I hate that new players will likely never be able to enjoy the fact that cards that they got have climbed in value do to being more scarce or to not be reprinted. WOTC definitely wants to own the secondary market with no care for the fanbase that got them to the level of success they achieved.
Nice, that’s awesome to hear I’m there at the shows in spirit 😂 Yeah, I hear you, sucks for current and future players…
In your opinion, does corner flip "fade" over time(all those pre-sleeve games) making HP, or even well loved MP cards, harder to identify.
I’d say it fades with wear, yes, but not just time on it’s own.
Yes, clipping corners is a problem for Alpha.
The Beta supply will deflate, while the "Alpha" supply inflates.
If I recall correctly, there's 23 cards which received corrections, and would be obvious if clipped.
Printer hickeys can also be used as identifying features.
If people can accurately clip corners to replicate the "rounded trapezoid" corners with the cut flare, then that's the end of ungraded alpha for many I think. But I think we're a ways away, the card shown with the $10> clipper, the top right corner is a dead giveaway, but for people who aren't experienced, that's a bad bad sign.
Agreed, I still don’t think people can fake their way past experience. I do worry about those cards that have never been traditionally targeted, that newer collectors might seek … berserk, swords, lightning bolt, stuff like that.
The clipped one in this video was clearly altered if you looked at it though. You'd only fool an amateur.
Woah never knew Alpha Cyclopean Tomb is missing the casting cost
It’s my favorite error!
Excellent video bringing attention to the new scam world we live in! Buy only graded alpha cards, Psa, Beckett.
Definitely safer!
**UPDATE** A viewer reached out to share some excellent resources. He's compiled an extensive catalog of Alpha card registrations, blemishes, and print dots (as well as for beta, CE, IE). Check out these links, courtesy of discord user "Library of Leng"
Discord server with LEA/LEB/CE/IE information: discord.gg/97cxwrE9pE
Complete Alpha RARE guide: mega.nz/file/Ue9mCBKR#P9MvK9u6qEkDUdGwHW4QBjSC70HND7Q6ec58umnwPgk
I really want to know where you got that playmat though
Probably Etsy but I don’t remember…
Finally a video thanks Alpha Hoarder 😎
I guess you can only expect the corner flip on NM cards? Luckily for both my rares Tundra and Stasis I was able to find registrations.
Awesome rares 🤩!!
Nice vidéo.
LMAO that opening scene was great
Yeah definitely stuff that's not very well documented. Some people like to believe "you can feel the obvious difference", but if you're not handling a ton of Alpha then it can be really tough.
I know it's not the same thing, it can't replace Magic and it comes with an unfortunately large hype train right now, but you may find Sorcery to be an enjoyable opening/collecting experience. I stopped buying Magic a couple years ago and Sorcery has been a very refreshing break for me.
Appreciate that suggestion, I will check out Sorcery
Sorcery cards are beautiful.
I'm not sure what the game play is like, and startup CCG usually fail, so it's high risk as far as investment is concerned, but the cards are gorgeous.
I don't have time and space for another game, but I feel like I could sit around and look at a binder of Sorcery cards for awhile.
Honestly if you don’t consider the back of the card it’s also ways to print great proxies on MPC. In a booster they look exactly like alpha cards 🤣
Yes they are
1st!
Wait...easy to proxy 😊😂🎉❤
You rock Mike!
You rock more 🤜🤛
There is also a different reason why clipping was not a thing in the early days : alphas for quite some time where not tournament legal and thus beta was the more sought after and more valuable set. THe reason was that unsleeved and with early see through penny sleeves you could easily see the alphas among the other cards and thus would have knowledge what card you are about to draw. . In theory you could play a deck with only alpha but that would super restrict deck building.
Very good point! The incentive definitely didn't arrive until later, and not until the price between different versions of the card was a significant %
@@AlphaHoarder THank you ;) Btw I just recently discovered your channel, and I really enjoy it., I started playing in 1994 , and played till liker 98 or early 99.
I then rediscovered magic through channels like openboosters, timmythesorcerer, Dualbrainmtg and rudy. All people who love the golden era of mtg and playing the 93/94 format (Timmy has many oldschool matches on his channel ). It is so nostalgic to see those old cards, so seeing your collections and your post days is truly awesome. I am really glad that people like you let us take part in this experience.
Thank you for those kind words! Those are good channels
@@AlphaHoarder You are very welcome ;)
Thank you so much for sharing this precious information bro. I'm going to check on my alpha basic lands since i did not have any idea about this. I always listened to Rudy that it was nearly impossible to fake them, but never heard before the fact of using real beta cards to make them look like alpha ones.
Anyone cutting out a card is not here for the hobby but for the money. Shitty people going around indeed
Thumbs up to you and your channel bro!!!
Unfortunately, when money is involved, you always get some predators. We just have to make it so they can’t turn a profit, and they’ll hopefully leave!
Once again, Knowledge, is, power.@@AlphaHoarder
Rudy often says that negative videos get more views.
Perhaps it will be a good direction for you. 😊
Hopefully I’ll stay off that path! I never monetized, so I’m not tied to views
I think for someone thats been dealing with alpha cards since the beginning its hard to pass a fake card by. But for someone thats only been handling cards for 3-5 years, its alot easier to pass the fake.
Agreed
acidtone will remove the inking much easier then
Also glad to see your videos.
Also, too paranoid to post conspiracy theories.
I appreciate your rational and calm "rants." Always valuable information disseminated here on Alpha Hoarder, also LBJ was responsible for JFK's assassination.
Appreciate that! Ah, the JFK one. I’ll check it out 🧐
😂
epic video
But that is a very bad job on the backed fake. I have seen a rebacked ce lotus into a beta, and it looks perfect, the weight was SPOT on. down to the 0.001g. I could not tell with light, electron weight etc. Maybe the very good fake ones are very very rare to find
I've never seen one that convincing in terms of the weight... that's really impressive.
it was a big story here in europe. the lotus was a prize from a legacy event. winner got the card refunded and everything was sorted when the fake was found out... crazy@@AlphaHoarder
Your rebacks could improve with some adjustments to your technique.
No need to discuss, just letting you know that some better ones do exist.
The conspiracy that is try and you should look into, Rudy DID actually sign that Black Lotus 😂
Oh man… Rudy has a lot of square footage in his warehouses to hide a body if anyone gets too close to his secrets!!
The corner flip is nice for unplayed cards is good but what about played cards. Maybe clipped corners on a played beta card would stand as unnatural wear on the card.
True Conspiracy Theory I can't say much but .... "Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths 373" .... Shhh Stay safe.
I was thinking the same thing. A beat up card with heavy play corners may avoid the corner flip detection altogether..but on the other hand if the same person who cut it did the wear, that's some wasted effort. Unless of course they botched the corner cut and are covering it up.
@@magicpesto I was thinking of having a worn beta then clipping. Trying to go from a worn beta to worn alpha.
Good point. I tend not to handle played stuff as much, so I didn’t give that the deserved consideration, but I’ve certainly seen cards were the corners were worn down enough that the flip may be gone.
@@AlphaHoarder I think I may see a difference in all of the few Alpha/Beta cards I own. The inner portion of the Black border on the front of beta cards is a lighter shade than in Alpha. This was most noticeable for me on the bottom portion between the 2 white dots on the cards. I only have about 6 of each Alpha and Beta so maybe they are just mine. I think I could see it in your Samite Healer's too.
Still a card. Still playable. I see nothing wrong.
True!
Awww F lol. ❤❤❤
jsut came up with another way to spot real old cards think about the smell. i bought a few copies of revelation and they smelled liek very old books would. i dont think you could copy that. then on the other hand artcopies get aged too in many ways so idc :D
Yes!! Although a clipped Beta will have that smell too
Every card is easy to fake. Thus the need for reprints. Only one problem. Reprint the reserved list!!! Hear hear!!!
Hasbro has definitely tuned into that wavelength as well lol
@@AlphaHoarder they certainly have not.
Solution ? Wizards can print more cards? It will do it? No
And yet, they’ll give it the old college try no doubt 😑
If an intelligent person was truly determined to create counterfeits of these cards, I can't help but think they would eventually succeed. There must be a way to re-engineer a small tabletop cutting press that would reproduce the corner flip consistently. I'm interested in the serious art forgers that have to locate historical materials (period paint & pseudo-varnish, period canvas, period wooden frames etc.) so that their work will pass chemical tests. A lot of ingenuity takes place in that area, even if the ends are immoral. Early magic cards should be relatively easier to forge than fine art since they're only a few decades old.
As far as conspiracy theories go, there are several related to the second world war that rise to the level of Chad (or Chud, as the perspective matters a lot). First we have the thesis that the upper ranks of the 3rd and 4th term Roosevelt administrations were "full of communists" who "gave away all our secrets" to the USSR and "gave Stalin the atomic bomb." That one is more-or-less completely confirmed today, although it was squelched under the Truman administration and continues to be denied and ignored by the liberal ruling class. It was exposed by Whittaker Chambers & Elizabeth Bentley in the postwar period and later confirmed by the 'Venona' decrypts, which implicated Harry Dexter White (drafted Bretton Woods), Alger Hiss (negotiated the Yalta conference for the USA), and Harry Hopkins (FDR's top aide and lend-lease coordinator for the USSR) as soviet assets. If you are not aware of this and have an interest in it, I recommend the books by John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr. Although in many places they will still pull their punches to avoid offending establishment mythology. I'd add another one but I'm already concerned that youtube autocensorship algo has been alerted.
That’s really interesting about art forgery - and you are probably right 🤔
WW2 conspiracies… fascinating! Thanks for that teaser, gonna have to read up on this now lol
buying cards with the intention of waiting for their "value" to go up isnt a hobbie
I agree. For me, the finance side is just about how much I can justify collecting, since if the values were going to zero, I couldn’t justify any of it. The hobby should be about passion, either for the game, or the art, or the history, and finance should only be the dressing on top.